The Volokh Conspiracy
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US Can do Well by Doing Good in Opening Our Doors to Chinese Immigration
As Washington Post columnist Catherine Rampell explains, doing so will simultaneously strengthen the US and weaken a major geopolitical rival. It can also rescue many Chinese from terrible oppression.
If there's one thing Republicans and Democrats tend to agree on, it's that China has become America's most dangerous geopolitical adversary. But, as Washington Post columnist Catherine Rampell explains in a recent article, we are shooting ourselves in the foot in this competition by severely restricting Chinese immigration to the US. Opening our doors is an easy way to strengthen the US at Xi Jinping's expense:
Whatever the specificmotivations, the number of people leaving China and seeking to make (or invest) their fortunes abroad is rising again, according to data from the U.N. Population Division….
China's loss presents a huge opportunity for the United States…..
Immigrants have long been the lifeblood of the U.S. economy and innovation. For more than a century, we have benefited from waves of peopleleaving difficult conditions in their home countries. In fact, the U.S. government has often worked hard to poach the top talent of our geopolitical adversaries. During the mid-20th century, for instance, we took in scientists from Germany (both those who worked for the Nazis and those persecuted by them); and part of our Cold War policy included siphoning off Soviet superstars.
These and other immigrants turned out to be productive workers, who in turn made our own homegrown workers more productive. This served our interests economically, militarily and geopolitically. It's great marketing for Western democratic values, after all, to be a desirable destination for your rivals' top talent….
Plus, bringing this coveted talent here means that same talent is not available there.
For all these reasons, I've previously argued for exploiting Russia's brain drain. The same arguments apply to China, too. Perhaps especially to China, given that U.S. political leaders openly fear being surpassed by Chinese innovation or getting locked out of global supply chains that intersect with China….
But however much money we throw at semiconductor or battery manufacturing, we will struggle to achieve our own ambitions if we lack the talent to build and operate those high-tech facilities, as we now clearly do. As Cato Institute scholar Scott Lincicome put it: You can be a China hawk or you can be an immigration hawk, but you can't really be both.
I have made similar arguments with respect to Chinese migration here and here. As Rampell notes, most of the same points apply to Russian migration, as well. In both cases, we can simultaneously bolster our economy, weaken an adversary, and score valuable points in the international war of ideas against dictators like Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping. The latter can't credibly claim their authoritarian regimes are the wave of the future if millions of their people "vote with their feet" for our system over theirs.
The security risk argument against doing this is overblown (Chinese immigrants actually have a lower rate of espionage than the US population as a whole), and easily managed by steps like limiting access to classified information.
Sadly, as Rampell points out, the political winds are actually blowing in the wrong direction on this:
Right now, nervous Chinese professionals and entrepreneurs are streaming to Singapore and other countries. The United States should be encouraging them to bring their talents here instead. Unfortunately, we've mostly done the opposite.
Some U.S. senators, for instance, have pushed to deny visas to Chinese citizens who want to come to the United States to study science, citing supposedly unmanageable national security risks (even though no one is suggesting visiting foreign nationals, from any country, go unvetted). Scholars of Chinese descent already here are reportedly choosing to leave tenured jobs at U.S. institutions, citing a hostile political and cultural environment…
Even some state governments are getting in on the red-baiting. Florida recently passed a law banning Chinese nationals from buying property, with several other states following suit.
In addition to the economic and national security advantages of opening doors to Chinese immigration, there is also a great moral benefit: freeing large numbers of people from horrific authoritarian oppression. Chinese seeking freedom should not be forcibly confined in an increasingly repressive dictatorship merely because they were born in the wrong place or to the wrong parents.
As in the case of Russians, it is wrong to claim Chinese should be kept out because they have some kind of collective responsibility for the evil perpetrated by their government. The same goes for claims they have a moral duty to stay home and "fix their own country."
During the Cold War, US policymakers - including many conservative Republicans - understood the economic, security, and moral benefits of openness to migration from hostile communist nations. Sadly, that common-sense wisdom has faded, especially - though certainly not exclusively - on the political right. It's long past time we rediscover it.
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Why am I not surprised that the link about the espionage claim is broken?
Worked fine when I used it.
For me, it pulls up a blog landing page, and none of the categories / posts shown are topical.
Same here.
Maybe they removed it? I searched the site for the author's work, and found plenty of it, (Unsurprisingly, he's as much of an open borders fanatic as Somin.) but not that study.
I would guess so. The Wayback Machine only reports two captures of the page. The older one is a 403 error page; the newer one looks like the current version.
Somin may have intended to link to this:
https://www.cato.org/commentary/how-much-threat-espionage-chinese-immigrants#
If so, he should be ashamed of citing a study of “Native‐born Americans who are ethnically Chinese” — many of whom are descended from Taiwanese or other Chinese people who fled Communist oppression — in support of opening our borders to China-born non-citizens who were indoctrinated under the Communist regime.
You expect better from a leftist open borders zealot?
I expect better from a libertarian open borders zealot.
So, not Somin. He cannot be bothered with the trade-offs involved and the externalized harms or dealing with their source.
We already are open, thousands of male Chinese nationals are streaming through our open borders.
Chinese nationals are also buying up large swaths of land near our most secret military bases. Who cares right? At least Hunter and Joe got their payday!
China could send us 500 million people. Would that be enough for Somin? Would we have his Libertarian paradise, if we all work for Chinese masters?
Amy Wax doesn't think so.
Yes, some want more Asians, and some want fewer.
It's patently false that we lack the talent to build and operate those high-tech facilities, and your link makes no such claim. We do lack the talent to build and operate those high-tech facilities for the same low cost that China does.
I would like to see some evidence of that! (your link is broken) I won't go into details, but this is something I've dealt with through my job, and every Chinese student is considered an active collector by the Chinese govt and are debriefed when they return home.
Maybe you don't count the students as immigrants? Also, espionage is NOT just about government secrets. Far more pervasive is corporate espionage, and China copies tons of US corporate research. It's also a rampant problem for Europe.
And what is the long term goal here? If we weaken China through the brain drain, then what? If China is anything like the rest of the world, it will regress, remain/go back to being a second world country, and become another never-ending stream of migrants trying to get into the US, Australia, and Europe. We have more than we can handle already.
"But however much money we throw at semiconductor or battery manufacturing, we will struggle to achieve our own ambitions if we lack the talent to build and operate those high-tech facilities, as we now clearly do"
I am amazed by that statement, and the utter ignorance it demonstrates.
We don't lack the talent, we lack the regulatory stability, essentially.
Nobody wants to invest in anything in the US with a long payback time, because you never know when a change in government is going to render your investment worthless. If the investment can't pay off in just a few years, the money goes somewhere else.
Nobody wants to invest in anything in the US with a long payback time, because you never know when a change in government is going to render your investment worthless. If the investment can’t pay off in just a few years, the money goes somewhere else.
Fucking ridiculous. Do you have a clue?
Is there no one Somin doesn't want to invite in
Anyone willing to work hard and become...American?
How about opening the doors for Canucks trying to escape raging forest fires?
What do we have to gain by antagonizing China?
Nothing, they might even attack us with a Virus that would kill hundreds of thousands.
Since they are clearly going to get away with it, why wouldn't they do it again?
Amazingly clever of them to launch their attack on mainland China.
They don't and never have cared about how many of their own citizens die.
Sure, Bumble, that's why they did nothing to fight the pandemic in their country or to develop a vaccine.
Yes, welding the doors of apartments to keep people safe is so compassionate.
I didn't say that their methods were compassionate; only that they sought to reduce the number of deaths, in contradiction of a foolish Bumble assertion.
"...a foolish Bumble assertion..."
Wow, the rarely-seen triple redundancy. 🙂
The Chinese were quite accommodating of African students as well - no hotel rooms, no apartments, no food.
Communists are racists? Who would have know. I thought only white Americans were.
Mt Father was in the Korean War. He didn't talk about it much. One of the things that he did say was that the Chinese don't value human life like we do. They would take a squad of 10 men and equip them all with ammunition, but, only one weapon. When the man carrying the weapon went down another man would pick it up and carry on the attack. When he fell another would pick it up and so on.
Communists never value human life.
Newsflash: every person in the history of ever has said that about the other country in a war.
And about half of them are right.
No matter what the issue, Somin's recommendation is the same. Replace Americans with foreigners. He hates Americans the way Hitler hated Jews.
Roger,
I get that English is not your native language. But I think you meant to say "add to" rather than 'replace.'
I'm not sure I've ever seen even the most zealous pro-immigration advocate say, "We should bring in more [fill in the ethnicity/nationality you most hate], and also remove that same number of American citizens." A link here would be most helpful, if my recollection is faulty.
Yes, people Somin do not usually explain that they are replacing Americans.
As a creator of technological and economic growth, and a developer of human capital, Communism seems to be working pretty well. We’d love to get a piece of it, apparently.
How mindblowingly ignorant can you be?
They made capitalist reforms in the late 80s and invented "state capitalism". That's what the Federals want. Not the misery of Leftist communism. But capitalism with classic Leftist control.
Are you still suffering from the hangover from last week? Your comments are getting progressively dumber every day.
Their technology is stolen and their economic growth has been fueled by having been the cheap labor source for goods sold elsewhere.
Communism has never "worked well".
Prof. Somin: "[It is our moral obligation to] free[] [Chinese] people from horrific authoritarian oppression."
captcrisis: "As...a developer of human capital, Communism seems to be working pretty well."
???
Something doesn't add up...
“Communism seems to be working pretty well”
Except for where it has failed. Which is everywhere it’s been tried.
That’s why we’ve got 100,000 Venezuelans on our border.
Slave labor is development of human capital?
What a terrifically stupid thing to say.
You sure did get a rise out of the usual suspects with that one!
Guys, China sucks but whatever it is, it’s not Communist in any pure sense.
The redbaiters still roll with Chicom, which at the point is really giving a lot of unneeded credit to Communism. Shitty bed to lie in, but here you are.
NOBODY is Communist in any pure sense, obviously. Communism is humanly impossible, so anybody who says they're doing communism is actually doing something else.
And communism has been known to be impractical for long enough that essentially everybody who says they want to do communism is either an idiot (Of the useful sort...) or a con man.
That doesn't mean it's improper to blame the ruin caused by people setting out to do 'communism' ON 'communism'.
You rolling true communism has never been tried? Huh. I mean no theoretical social system is ever really realized.
North Korea and the USSR made a pretty good go at it, seems to me
China has a hybrid thing going. I agree it had to do this due to economic and popular pressure. And cultural pressure. Due to our free trade policies.
But the worst part is their system remain.
However ChiComs is naive and dumb.
No theoretical system is ever fully realized, but communism is a 'theoretical system' like perpetual motion machines are; It's impossible to actually do. Everybody who genuinely tried to do it ended up doing something else because doing communism is impossible. Not difficult impossible, impossible impossible.
And people haven't tried to do communism in a very long time, or rather, they've 'tried' to do communism in the same way somebody selling you the Brooklyn bridge is 'trying' to do a real estate transaction. Anybody talking to you about doing communism today is either a conman or a mark.
All political systems are impossible. The system as the Constitution lays it out is impossible (eg the operation of the electoral college).
Point is if you call China communist, you are saying communism can be successful by most worldwide measures. You don’t need to do this, but the right seems compelled to.
At this point, except to political theorists, "communist" refers to the real world form of government, totalitarian state capitalism. Not the theoretical and impossible to even approximate fantasy.
And, no, the EC isn't "impossible" as conceived, it was just politically unstable. I've already established that every election up until the Civil war had at least part of the EC being legislatively appointed, and most of the early elections had a majority of the EC appointed.
Since it actually was followed as envisioned for a while, it obviously wasn't "impossible". Not in the way communism is.
I have no idea what totalitarian state capitalism means.
Your distinction between impossible and politically unstable is not an actual distinction. China was communist as the USSR, Cuba, North Korea, Yugoslavia, etc. were for a lot longer than we had the EC.
But sure keep arguing semantics so communism is a viable national system. Seems weird and wrong to me, but so it goes.
"I have no idea what totalitarian state capitalism means."
Seriously?
"to·tal·i·tar·i·an
adjective
adjective: totalitarian
relating to a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state."
"state cap·i·tal·ism
noun
noun: state capitalism
a political system in which the state has control of production and the use of capital."
Note, that's "control", not "ownership"; Control can be asserted without nominal ownership, so long as private "owners" are obligated to do as they're told.
So, China is a totalitarian state with a state capitalism economy. Pretty much all 'communist' states have been exactly that, since common ownership of capital by 'the people' isn't possible, and the state never withers away, (Nor was ever intended to, really.)
"But sure keep arguing semantics so communism is a viable national system. Seems weird and wrong to me, but so it goes."
Seems weird and wrong to me that you insist on misinterpreting what I say that way.
You are correct that China is not communist in a real sense. It’s a hybrid. A few decades back they made some moves toward free market capitalism because they were getting down the road toward a revolt of a billion hungry peasants.
Which accentuates the point that both captcrisis and Somin miss, economically. China is “successful” to the extent that they’ve moved away from communist economics but are still totalitarian enough to have tight control over wages (some of which are zero, virtually all of which are below western standards).
To say glibly that we can just move their system or their talents over here and things would be great is laughable. Americans won’t and shouldn’t work under those conditions. Or allow them to be imposed on someone else here.
Nice of you to insult “the usual suspects” then pretty much agree with them. Gotta get your personal shits in, huh?
The key (weasel) word in S_0's comment was "pure", rather than "real", sense -- he was making a veiled "true communism is not being practiced in China" argument, so of course he mocked Brett for responding to it.
China has a very real implementation of communism. It's an impure implementation, as communism always is, but the evils of the system are those of communism.
You are arguing words don’t mean things.
China is authoritarian as hell, but it’s got markets all over the place.
Our trade policies forced that to happen. But Communism wasn’t the only issue and so China still sucks.
No, I'm pointing out your motte-and-bailey fallacy. Words mean things, and your words mean you are a weasel.
Communism wasn't the only issue in the PRC, but it caused most of the other issues and it is still a major affliction for the country.
Same Somin, same broken record, every time.
The issue (among many) is that there isn't any nuance. No prioritization, no consideration of trade offs, no actual statistics.
In Fiscal year 2021, we had 51,000 new green card holders from Mainland China. That was third among countries for new green cards (after Mexico and India) and represented 7% of all US green cards. So, it's not exactly like we don't have lots of immigrants from China currently.
Now, I understand Somin is an open borders proponent who doesn't believe in any limits on immigrations, and the answer will always be "more, more, more!" But for those of us who live in reality, we understand that there need to be reasonable limits on immigration. That immigrants need time to assimilate, and rationing the influx of immigrants is reasonable and proper in order to assist that assimilation time.
So, with reality in mind, and the concept that there will be limits on immigration, we need to ask...why more Chinese immigrants now? And at which country's expense would we increase Chinese immigration? Should we cut the number from India? Mexico? A bunch of small countries in Africa? Perhaps eliminate the refugee program? Personally, I don't see doing any of that.
I feel the current number of green cards per year from China is fine.
The issue (among many) is that there isn’t any nuance. No prioritization, no consideration of trade offs, no actual statistics.
Where are your nuance, prioritization, and statistics?
I feel the current number of green cards per year from China is fine.
Based on anything but your prejudices? There's a rather crude t-shirt RWer's wear sometimes. I think it applies here.
Suppose I said we should give out 60,000 green cards to Chinese, about an 18% increase. Why is that too many? Is 40,000 too few?
"Where are your nuance, prioritization, and statistics?"
The statistics, at least, are in the very next sentence. What's wrong with you? Are you ok?
I'm fine, thanks.
Those numbers are useless as the basis for his argument. They tell us nothing about whether 51000 is too many, too few, or just right. He might as well have said, "Mike Trout is hitting .263."
So, I guess, no statistics to support his argument.
If you dismiss any notion of any limits at the start, then statistics don’t support any remaining arguments. So I guess it makes sense that you didn’t see them.
If the capacity to absorb immigrants isn’t infinite, then accepting one additional Chinese immigrant means accepting one fewer non-Chinese immigrant. And then statistics become relevant.
I just realized the key Democrat assumption:
The world's only unlimited resource is other people’s stuff.
Every other resource on Earth is assumed to be limited. Usage has to be "sustainable". Obviously. Other people’s stuff can be taken and used infinitely though. An infinite population can live in other people’s neighborhoods too.
Oh looks like you forgot people were individuals and not just interchangeable members of their nation. And assume there some exact number of immigrants per year we can take. Which is dumb as hell.
You also found a new shit theory about Democrats, you seem to like that reductive bullshit.
If you dismiss any notion of any limits at the start,
And where did I do that?
Hi Bernard,
Thanks for answering. Let’s address your points.
1. As Ben pointed out, my statistics were in the paragraph about the number of green cards issued to people of Chinese birth in 2021. Now, you may consider this “useless”. Oddly enough however, you used the “useless” statistic in your very next point, where you said:
“Suppose I said we should give out 60,000 green cards to Chinese, about an 18% increase. Why is that too many? Is 40,000 too few?
Yes, ironically, you used the “useless” statistic.
But in regards to your point about 60,000 or 40,000. It does need to be pointed out that green cards are not static year to year. And indeed, in one given year, there may be 60,000 green cards handed out to people of Chinese birth. That would be within normal variation.
My feeling is that there is no real need to greatly increase the number of green cards to people of Chinese birth, and that doing so would come at a cost to people from other countries. And I don’t think that’s a trade off worth making. I don’t think an additional 100,000 Chinese green cards at the cost of eliminating all green cards for people from Vietnam, Columbia, Jamaica, Nigeria, South Korea, & Haiti (to use an example set of countries who would add up to that number) is worth it, and it’s particularly detrimental.
But if you feel it is worth eliminating all green cards from those countries to get an additional 100,000 Chinese, please let me know, and your reasons why. Or perhaps pick some other unworthy countries in your opinion.
A.L.
I "used" your number only to point out that it offered no support for your argument, whatever it was. I mean, if you think 51,000 i sjust right, why? Why not 40,000 or 60,000?
My feeling is that there is no real need to greatly increase the number of green cards to people of Chinese birth, and that doing so would come at a cost to people from other countries. And I don’t think that’s a trade off worth making. I don’t think an additional 100,000 Chinese green cards at the cost of eliminating all green cards for people from Vietnam, Columbia, Jamaica, Nigeria, South Korea, & Haiti (to use an example set of countries who would add up to that number) is worth it, and it’s particularly detrimental.
But if you feel it is worth eliminating all green cards from those countries to get an additional 100,000 Chinese, please let me know, and your reasons why. Or perhaps pick some other unworthy countries in your opinion.
IOW, you feel - there's that word again - that any additional green cards would come at the expense of would-be immigrants from other countries. Obviously, it ain't necessarily so, despite your silly ground-shifting.
So you try to switch from "We have enough Chinese immigrants" (why, other than your feelings?) to "We have enough immigrants, period" (why, other than your feelings?)
It's you, not I, declaring people unworthy.
If you're an open borders proponent Bernard, who doesn't think there need to be any real limits on immigrations....just say so.
If you think, as most people do, that open borders is a stunningly poor idea, then you understand there need to be tradeoffs. That some limits need to be set. And increasing immigration for one group of people will come at the expense of a different group of people.
Accusation from weakness.
You are making a bad argument. Pointing out that you are drawing lines without any support does not mean someone is against drawing lines. It just means you are making a bad argument.
I think you realize that which is why your response is to attack the person asking you to support your argument, rather than supporting your argument.
Assuming that you're right that some limits need to be set: why do these particular limits need to be set? Why can't, e.g., we just add 100,000 slots for Chinese people?
"Why can’t, e.g., we just add 100,000 slots for Chinese people?"
Because once you add 100,000 slots for Chinese people, you get every other country's people demanding slots. Why not 100,000 extra for Russians? For Ukrainians? For Nigerians? For Vietnamese?
If you're an open borders proponent, like Somin, there's no real problem.
But if you believe in realistic limits...these sorts of questions become a big issue. What's the criteria for China...but not the other countries.
Somin makes arguments about fleeing dictatorships...that applies to more than 50 different countries. Why China, but not those other 49+ countries?
What about "draining the brain"....Which argues we should be instituting merit-based immigration primarily (which we don't, and argues against certain moral reasons). And it's hard to argue that given the current levels of immigration from China, we can't get the top "0.1%" who want to immigrate here.
What about moral reasons? Who is really worse off, who needs the chance to immigrate to America? A Han Chinese with no real political persecution? Or a poor mother from Ghana?
Again, not a problem if you're open borders. Every reason is valid, everyone can come. But, if you're...not...open borders. Then it becomes an issue of prioritization.
And that lack of prioritization is one of Somin's biggest problems.
No. He thinks that the US should have open boarders. Every other country is free to secure theirs.
You're very passionate about something you can't even spell.
Not kinder/gentler.
Maybe you can explain why every other country in the world is allowed to have borders and choose who they let in, except the US. Why is that?
Is it because you don’t hold a grudge against the people of every other country in the world?
I have no idea what the word "allowed" means in your sentence. No country should restrict immigration.
But they all do.
Every country does.
"No country should restrict immigration" is a fringe extremist view more-or-less everywhere in the world, at more-or-less every time in world history.
It must really be weird to deplore the vast, overwhelming majority of every population in every country ever as reprehensibly evil bigots.
Believers in tiny extreme fringe beliefs should consider that the vast, overwhelming majority of everyone everywhere might, at least, have a perspective worth some thoughtful consideration.
“No country should restrict immigration” is a fringe extremist view more-or-less everywhere in the world, at more-or-less every time in world history.
Did you fail history?
Did your history class teach about how every population of every town and village and country in the world always automatically welcomed outsiders like family?
Because people did not do that.
No new goalposts.
OK. You're an idiot.
Tell me, when did the United States, to pick a country at random, start restricting immigration?
The Naturalization Act of 1790? Certainly by the Steerage Act of 1819. That kind of law got much more serious once we ran out of frontier.
Then you shouldn't restrict who enters your home either.
Somin the Tankie...
Would you prefer that they all take PRC loyalty oaths before they emigrate too?
Funny how more sensible Western countries now see Russian and Chinese immigration, and Russian and Chinese attempted resource and land purchases, as national security threats.
Go back to Russia. Your efforts to subvert and destroy America, and the West generally, are obvious (save to the readers of this blog).
As they say, every accusation is a confession.
So, all this time, you’ve really been a Putin supporter?
What a surprise. Your views are certainly antithetical to America's, or the West's, well-being and security.
No, we have enough Communists. If you could arrange a swap for the full membership of the NEA, then we can talk.
So leftist WaPo columnist and CATO agree. Well, that settles it.
What exactly are her qualifications in national security or evaluating technology talent?
"Rampell graduated Phi Beta Kappa from Princeton University with an A.B. in anthropology"
Oh, none.
Says the guy who proofreads downscale residential deeds in Lower Outhouse, Ohio . . . and is a resentful, bigoted culture war loser . . . about one of his betters.
Dear Diary,
Today a real loser had the audacity to criticize an Elite. I can't believe he hasn't been arrested! WHAT ON EARTH IS GOING ON??! Since when do we tolerate criticizing elites? I want to throw up!
Sickeningly yours,
Arthur The Green
Says the guy with, at best, an American JD? A moron with no training in, or understanding of, basic logic, and no capacity to recognize, on his own, the superficiality and hypocrisy of his espoused dogmas?
HOW, moreover, is she a ‘better’? By being unqualified for her job? Simply by virtue of possessing a BA — a mere undergrad degree — from a prestigious university? This is weak stuff even for you, AIDS. The pretense of your side in the present American culture war is that YOURS has the bona fide epistemic authorities in its ranks, that YOURS defends science and your views are predicated upon science, that your side's champions' credentials are themselves credible and laudable, etc.
Never you mind, though: your American betters will definitely Breivik you and your loved ones.
What exactly are her qualifications in national security or evaluating technology talent?
What are yours, or A.L.'s?
Unfortunately, American politicians and the government spend more time whining about China than actually doing useful things. Letting Chinese intellectuals and business leader immigrate is one useful way to push back China. Another is trading pacts to work with Asian Pacific partners that compete with China. A third is offer third world countries assistance to combat Chinese influence. Now a these are likely to happen but we can count on more whining and even Congress hearing to whine more.
Sure, maybe. But if the opposite was true, does anyone think Somin would be against "opening our doors" though?
Somin burned his credibility by being so consistently one-sided and dismissive of others' perspectives. If he was a thoughtful moderate on the issue, he might be worth listening to.
We invited an Afghani translator to come to America, and promptly killed him. Expat Chinese might want to think about that before they decide where to land.
I am pretty sure that the people who invited him to America on the last plane out of Afghanistan were not the ones who killed him, and he would almost certainly have died sooner if he stayed in Afghanistan.
Potential immigrants should consider American gun worship and bigotry fueled hate crimes before voting with their feet.
The Afghani Translator was murdered in DC, pretty sure it wasn't Billy Bob or Bubba who shot him.
Here's the video of the murderous "Utes" running away, 1 guess what race they are.
https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/interpreter-for-us-forces-in-afghanistan-killed-driving-rideshare-in-dc/3380327/
Why would an immigrant not move to impoverished, bigoted rural areas?
These bigoted right-wing bumpkins love their can't-keep-up backwaters.
Hey "Coach" your CTE is showing,
the Afghani Translator was murdered in North East D.C. by 4 Spear Chuckers (if you can call people "Klingers" I can call peoples "Spear Chuckers")
We now return you to Kinder/Gentler Frank
Frank
He was a rideshare driver. Wonder when Uber, Lyft, et. al., (or their drivers) will decide they won’t go to certain areas.
Like USPS?
https://thepostmillennial.com/california-neighborhood-declared-too-dangerous-to-deliver-mail
Problem with Chinese Immigration is you let a million in, and an hour later you have to let another million in.
Supplies!!
Maybe the Chinese should not be encouraged to come to the US because the mass shootings will cause them crippling anxiety.
They know not to take communist news media seriously.
the Great Chairman Mao said it best (he said everything great!)
"Kill one Million Chinese, another Million will take their place"
To the Chinks, Covid is a rounding error.
Frank "Dammit! where are my fortune cookies?!?!?!?!?"
Unlike in Chinese laundry soap ads, real-life Chinese people are not likely to look Black no matter how dirty they get, and so have a much lower chance of being caught in a mass shooting than one might think from media coverage.
It's kind of amazing how the description of suspects in those events in current coverage has stopped including apparent race and age.
Yeah, that’s a meme from racists. No actual change in coverage is evident.
"As in the case of Russians, it is wrong to claim Chinese should be kept out because they have some kind of collective responsibility for the evil perpetrated by their government."
I suppose somebody, somewhere, must have made an argument like that. I've never encountered anyone that stupid, though.
"…they have some kind of collective responsibility for the evil perpetrated by their government…"
That’s one reason leftists don’t like Americans. Leftists also treat some American people as racially guilty of what their ancestors might have done.
I guess you don't read the comments sections here. We get that all the time here from the anti-immigrant crowd. It's often phrased as "These people ruined their own country and so now they're fleeing it and will do the same thing to ours."
You are conflating several different things. Legal immigration, illegal alien migration and phony asylum seekers are not of a kind.
While I'm sure there are those who oppose any immigration I think the majority are OK with legal immigration and oppose the other two.
Republicans supported phony asylum claims from Cubans up until 2021.
The people we get it from include Brett, of course.
“As in the case of Russians, it is wrong to claim Chinese should be kept out because they have some kind of collective responsibility for the evil perpetrated by their government.”
I suppose somebody, somewhere, must have made an argument like that. I’ve never encountered anyone that stupid, though.
Actually, Brett, you’ve made quite similar anti-immigration arguments. I agree they are stupid.
No, I haven't.
What I quoted is a collective guilt argument. It's an argument that somebody shouldn't be allowed here as punishment for something their group did.
My argument is more prospective: I'm concerned about what people will do once they come here. My argument is that people will do again what they've done before. If you take a random sample of people from a high crime area, you have to expect them to exhibit a high crime rate. That doesn't mean the ones who aren't criminals are guilty of anything!
Now, to the extent that you extensively examine individuals, and treat them as such, you should be able to tell the people who will do that from the people who wouldn't. So, sure, you could probably, if you worked hard at it, identify Chinese immigrants who were free marketeers. Maybe only accept Chinese fleeing places like Hong Kong? But Somin categorically rejects that sort of vetting!
Because he's so opposed to conditioning entry on individual cases, you have to evaluate the results of following his policies on the basis of overall statistics.
Really, what he's arguing for is setting up the conditions for the Chinese government to replicate what Cuba did during the Mariel boat lift: Empty their prisons into the US!
This is still collective guilt. People are not interchangeable statistics.
Stop trying to engineer individuals.
You're just mindlessly saying that.
We should treat people as individuals, but if you, as Somin does, rule that out a priori, the only thing left is to treat them as statistical generalizations.
But I don't want to do that, I want to treat people in a very granular way as individuals for immigration purposes. I just don't think that treatment should ignore cultural issues.
I don't see why we should bail out the Chinese Communist Party -- the immigrants who *aren't* spies are the people who will otherwise overthrow the ChiCom regime.
Their economy is imploding -- see: https://dnyuz.com/2023/07/08/several-things-have-shocked-me-an-ex-insider-on-business-in-china/ and did we bail out the Soviet Union as it imploded?
So why China?
Is Putin preferable to Gorbechav??
We had an opportunity with Russia and ignored it.
I thought at the time that the best suggestion was to buy Russia’s nukes, when Gorbachev took over. No idea if that was practical, but big benefit to us and a big financial boost to the new government.
We were actually doing that until 2016, when Putin decided he'd rather hold onto it.
1.4 billion Chinese. Ilya might have to add an extra bedroom.
My ISU class in Nuclear Engineering was 1/3 Iranian, until the SHTF in the 70s, then it dropped to zero. My graduate student dorm at Princeton had a PRC group that met weekly and sang Chinese patriotic songs. My Johns Hopkins post-doc class in Molecular Biology had CCP military officers organizing who learned what before they took it all back to China. Will the latest SCOTUS ruling restart our creation of the brightest minds OUS?
According to legal documents disclosed Tuesday, Sharon Bush's lawyers questioned Neil Bush closely about the deals, especially a contract with Grace Semiconductor Manufacturing Corp., a firm backed by Jiang Mianheng, the son of former Chinese President Jiang Zemin, that would pay him $2 million in stock over five years.
Marshall Davis Brown, lawyer for Sharon Bush, expressed bewilderment at why Grace would want Bush and at such a high price since he knew little about the semiconductor business.
"You have absolutely no educational background in semiconductors do you?" asked Brown.
"That's correct," Bush, 48, responded in the March 4 deposition, a transcript of which was read by Reuters after the Houston Chronicle first reported on the documents.
"And you have absolutely over the last 10, 15, 20 years not a lot of demonstrable business experience that would bring about a company investing $2 million in you?"
Glad you enlightened us. Something we've all been wondering about.
Remember Billy Beer? It should have all been poured back in the horse.
This…seems quite a few convenient anecdotes.
PRC patriotic songs? In your grad dorm?
You aren’t quite at Ed level but I’m skeptical.
Oh man, his bad. He should’ve ran his comments by you to see if you approved before posting them.
Good job keeping up the quality of this blog!
His point was merely that he didn't believe the story. Nor do I. (Nor, I suspect, do you.)
I think it's perfectly legitimate for you or I or anyone else to respond to someone's anecdote with, "Yup, the same thing happened to me." or "Color me suspicious--that's setting off my B.S. meter."
Almost like the free exchange of ideas.
I suppose you're skeptical about China actually running Chinese "police stations" in some of our cities, too.
Like Nige, he has to check in with his Mind Manager to see how to answer that.
Unlike Nige, whose Mind Manager is CCP, his is State Department. Not that there is much difference.
I haven’t heard of it and you provide no link.
It gets rather tiresome to provide you with links you'll ignore, but sure, here: Two Arrested for Operating Illegal Overseas Police Station of the Chinese Government
Why China’s police state has a precinct near you
You make some obtuse accusation and you link a video as if it makes some kind of point.
Then you expect me to click on it, watch it, reverse engineer your point then comeback here and do what?
How much work do you expect everyone else to do to construct your arguments for you?
It was a video with 20-year-old interview of Donald Trump. It has absolutely nothing to do open borders or China buying up land near army bases or Hunter & Joes payoffs from the CCP.
What are you? Stupid?
I don't know about Mr. Bumble, but Ann Coulter has explicitly called for an immigration moratorium. And she's one smart lady!
That means we'll have to produce our own smart people from now on.
Well we can start by getting the Teacher's Unions out of our schools.
Some teachers seem unable to impart capitalization rules to some students. Substandard students, in particular.