The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
Online Dating Scams, Canadian Edition
Victim swindled out of almost 500K Canadian dollars
Romance scams remain a (growing) international problem. I am quoted in this CBC News story about a Calgary woman who lost almost 500K Canadian dollars:
Legal expert Irina Manta says people could try more exclusive and expensive online dating services to receive a better vetting process.
But in the meantime, she says, people need to stop blaming the victim.
Manta is a law professor at Hofstra University in Hempstead, N.Y., and the founding director of its Center for Intellectual Property Law.
She says it's tough to put yourself in someone else's shoes. She says sometimes people are down on their luck through no fault of their own. And sometimes, she says, there can be rational reasons why people brush away red flags.
In these cases, she says, it might be a limited dating pool.
"If there are not a lot of awesome people that might want to be in a partnership with you, there's a chance this is not a good person. But maybe there is a chance this is a good person. You're going to sort of keep going for as long as possible," said Manta.
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Could you write something about intellectual property?
Odd that the only female blogger here feels the obligation to post only lightweight stuff not related to her legal expertise.
As always, I sense the management of the Volokh Conspiracy is getting precisely what it wanted. Blackman and Manta weren't picked by accident.
Yeah, I have a girlfriend, but she lives in Canada.
As usual, I disagree with almost all of Prof Manta’s remarks.But in the meantime, she says, people need to stop blaming the victim.
Au contraire, blaming the victim is a good instinct. The victim will probably be blaming his/her/itself anyway so a bit of extra blaming isn’t going to do much harm. Meanwhile lots of victim blaming will help other unwary daters to be more cautious and less clueless.
Most of life’s ups and downs include a goodly mixture of things you could applaud/blame yourself for, and things you couldn’t. But the more you get into the habit of feeling responsible for your actions, the better decisions you’ll make. Even if that means overcounting the applause and the blame, and assigning to yourself things that really belong to Lady Luck.
Generally people who believe and act as if they’re in control of their own destiny – even when they’re not – have better outcomes than those who act as if the world is controlling them. This has nothing to do with whether in any particular case you were in fact felled by a bolt from the blue, or a bolt stupidly fired from your own quiver. Assuming that you’re responsible and can direct the course of your life is a good heuristic, even if it’s often wrong.
She says it’s tough to put yourself in someone else’s shoes.
Maybe. It depends how many people you know. If you don’t get out much, then when you do timidly emerge, the world will surprise you more often. Learn from other people’s mistakes. It hurts a lot less than learning from your own. Practice interacting with people and you will start reading them better. Less time with the law books, more time chatting – to both your ditzy friends and to the target market. Preferably without getting ratfaced, as that makes it harder to pay good attention.
She says sometimes people are down on their luck through no fault of their own.
Sure, sometimes. But rarely. Usually we contribute to our own downfall. Mrs Moore is on time 99.9% of the time. I’m on time 95% of the time. But every time I’m late I can point to a specified piece of bad luck that made me late. But as Mrs Moore points out, with venom, the real reason is that I don’t leave myself a big enough margin for bad luck.
And sometimes, she says, there can be rational reasons why people brush away red flags.
Tell us more. I can buy “understandable”. And while we’re on red flags, let us return to blaming the victim. How are we going to warn next month’s victims without pointing out where this month’s victim went wrong ?
In these cases, she says, it might be a limited dating pool.
The size of the dating pool is determined by your requirements. The more demanding you are, the smaller it is. And it is not a constant. It is at its largest – if you’re female and heterosexual – from about 18-25. It then declines pretty steadily till you hit 30, then it begins to roll downhill with gathering pace until at 40 it’s lying shattered at the bottom of the canyon in tiny pieces.
Tip for new players – if you plan to have a great career and put everything into your career until you’re 35, and then you start looking for Mr Right, he’s long gone. As has Mr Reasonably OK and Mr Barely Acceptable. You’re talking Mr Dregs now. Or Mr twice divorced at 62 who no longer has the energy for something under 30. Which is how Mr Coming On Care Home prefers to describe himself. But even then you’re better off than the gal who waits till she’s 35 and assumes Mr Right will come hunting for her.
"If there are not a lot of awesome people that might want to be in a partnership with you, there's a chance this is not a good person. But maybe there is a chance this is a good person. You're going to sort of keep going for as long as possible," said Manta.
☺ know your value in the dating pool. If it’s too good to be true, it probably isn’t true. If it’s too good to be true and it involves you writing checks, then it even probablier isn’t true. Every month you content yourself with a fantasy about your mate value, is a month during which your dating pool gets smaller.
I think it's true that people who take charge of their own lives and don't do stupid things tend to do better than those who don't. But I also think that having the personality and character traits and good judgment that make one able to do those things is largely something one has no control over. You have the common sense and work ethic that you have. Having common sense and a good work ethic is a little like having the ability to be a nuclear physicist or play basketball for the Lakers: You either have what it takes or you don't. Ain't nothing going to make Rip Van Winkle into a productive citizen.
I do agree that incentives, both positive and negative, can sometimes push someone who was on the fence, so what you call victim blaming may have some deterrent value, but only some. Most people don't learn from their own mistakes, never mind someone else's. So, overall I'm probably more forgiving of other people's foibles than you are.
But I also think that having the personality and character traits and good judgment that make one able to do those things is largely something one has no control over. You have the common sense and work ethic that you have. You have the common sense and work ethic that you have.
Up to a point, Lord Copper. You certainly get dealt some personality cards by nature. But it’s not set in stone. eg if you are naturally introverted, and find that it’s getting in your way, you can practice doing the things you don’t like doing naturally and get better at dealing with new people. And once you’ve trained yourself you’ve actually extended your comfortable behavior range, so that it ceases to require an effort of will. You’ll never be an extrovert, but you’ll be able to perform in a more extroverted role when you need to, without stress.
Of course the hardest personality trait to reform is lack of conscientiousness. Where do you find the knuckle down and work at it determination, to make yourself more conscientious, if your problem is that you naturally lack knuckle down and work at it determination ? There you need someone standing over you with a big stick.
And it’s not a question of forgiving – I’m not making a moral judgement. Nor am I unsympathetic (though unless I’m your Mom, I may keep quiet about that.) It’s a question about what is practical. Assuring people that they’re right not to blame themselves is usually the wrong answer.
But not always. Thus very conscientious people (who are few) – who naturally do feel like they’re responsible for what happens to them, and feel that working harder and more diligently will see them through – can be totally floored when their world is turned upside down for a reason that is actually no fault of their own.
Because they won’t accept that actually this time it wasn’t their fault, they are inclined to assume that they must be worthless and even more so because they can’t spot where they went wrong. So they can go into a spiral of hopelessness. Those folk – feel free to reassure them that it wasn’t their fault.
The word needs to be spread about "hitting the wall," so that women don't develop the expectation that it can never happen to them.
Who knows, they might even reconsider their dating / marriage criteria ...
How's that for a future topic for your podcast, Professor!
Kinder/Gentler Frank here,
2 words would have saved her a pile of headache (and 600K Canadian Dollars (are they like the old Lira?? where 600K was about 400bucks??)
Dil-Doe
Frank
I could not read the entire story; it is horribly embarrassing. There are a lot of predatory men online and they are not just trying to scam women out of money. Some just want to scam them into a short-term sexual relationship. 20 years ago, I had several female friends, attorneys all, who were dating men that they met online. It's a jungle out there. There are more men pretending to be super-alphas then there are super-alphas.
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Online dating scams seem to be everywhere, and it’s surprising how creative scammers can get. In Canada, I’ve heard stories about people being targeted with fake profiles or requests for money. It’s scary how easy it is to fall for these tricks when emotions are involved. Has anyone else noticed this becoming more common lately?
Oh, sometimes it seems to me that I’ve been on so many dates that led nowhere, that people on this planet will run out faster than I’ll find someone, I’ll go crazy, and I’ll actually start looking for encounters with alien beings. But seriously, the format of sites like lesbian hookup website appeals to me the most right now. Again, after having a lot of negative experiences and rejections, I’ve come to the conclusion that maybe one-night encounters really might be much better.