The Volokh Conspiracy
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Indiana Constitution Protects Right to Abortion When Necessary to Protect Woman's Life or Health, But Not Otherwise
In Members of the Medical Licensing Board of Indiana v. Planned Parenthood, decided Friday, the Indiana Supreme Court (in an opinion by Justice Derek Molter, joined by Chief Justice Loretta Rush and Justice Mark Massa) concluded that the Indiana Constitution's protection of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" "protects a woman's right to an abortion that is necessary to protect her life or to protect her from a serious health risk":
Plaintiffs emphasize that abortion procedures are sometimes their only means to save their patients' lives. That is undisputed, and we agree the Constitution—including Article 1, Section 1—does not permit the General Assembly to prohibit abortion in those circumstances. But that is not a basis for enjoining the entirety of Senate Bill 1 in all circumstances, including when abortion is unnecessary to protect a woman's life or to protect her from a serious health risk.
Article 1, Section 1 expressly protects an "inalienable" right to "life," which was a firmly established right long before Indiana became a state. That right to protect one's own life extends beyond just protecting against imminent death, and it includes protecting against "great bodily harm." Although the State disputes that Article 1, Section 1 is judicially enforceable, it recognizes that governmental authority is limited to the police power, and it acknowledges "grave doubt" that the police power would permit the State to prohibit an abortion that was necessary to save a woman's life.
Because this fundamental right of self-protection—whether considered as an exercise of the right to life, an exercise of the right to liberty, a limitation on the scope of the police power, or as a matter of equal treatment—is so firmly rooted in Indiana's history and traditions, it is a relatively uncontroversial legal proposition that the General Assembly cannot prohibit an abortion procedure that is necessary to protect a woman's life or to protect her from a serious health risk.
Reflecting that understanding, all of Indiana's abortion statutes since 1851 have recognized an exception for abortions that are required to protect a woman's life…. And now that the United States Supreme Court has returned broad discretion to the states to determine the legality of abortion, Senate Bill 1's general abortion ban continues to recognize an exception for "when reasonable medical judgment dictates that performing the abortion is necessary to prevent any serious health risk to the pregnant woman or to save the pregnant woman's life."
Accordingly, Article 1, Section 1 protects a woman's right to an abortion that is necessary to protect her life or to protect her from a serious health risk. Yet, this holding does not support Plaintiffs' claim for a preliminary injunction. That is because they framed their claim as a facial challenge to the entire statute in all conceivable circumstances rather than an as-applied challenge to the law's application in any particular set of circumstances where a pregnancy endangers a woman's life or health. So this appeal does not present an opportunity to establish the precise contours of a constitutionally required life or health exception and the extent to which that exception may be broader than the current statutory exceptions. For purposes of this appeal, all we can say is that Senate Bill 1 is not facially invalid as interfering with a woman's access to care that is necessary to protect her life or health….
But the court concluded, on originalist grounds, that Article 1, Section 1 doesn't extend to "abortions that are unnecessary to protect a woman's life or to protect her from a serious health risk":
Plaintiffs argue abortion is a fundamental right necessarily implied in the protection of liberty. To recognize an unenumerated, implied right, we must conclude the right is "of such a quality that the founding generation would have considered it fundamental or 'natural.'"That is because what gives our Constitution force is that it reflects an agreement reached through the constitutional framing, ratifying, and amendment processes. So we cannot supplant what the framers and ratifiers believed they were agreeing to with our own notions of which aspects of liberty ought to be off limits for the legislative process, or our notions of which aspects of liberty we suspect voters today might embrace as worthy of heightened constitutional protections if asked.
This also means we do not analyze whether liberty, privacy, autonomy, self-determination, and abortion relate to each other in a colloquial sense. Rather, our task is to discern the contours of constitutionally protected liberty as Section 1's framers and ratifiers understood them, and then to decide whether that common understanding of liberty leaves the General Assembly discretion to generally prohibit abortions that are unnecessary to protect a woman's life or health.
Indiana's long history of generally prohibiting abortion as a criminal act—coupled with Plaintiffs' acknowledgment that protecting prenatal life falls within the State's broad authority to protect the public's health, welfare, and safety—suggests that the common understanding among Article 1, Section 1's framers and ratifiers was that the provision left the General Assembly with legislative discretion to regulate or limit abortion. Even before statehood, Indiana's territorial law prohibited abortions after quickening, and for the entire period between the ratification of the 1851 Constitution and the passage of Senate Bill 1, Indiana prohibited abortions at all stages of the pregnancy to the extent the federal courts interpreting the Federal Constitution permitted. [Further historical details omitted. -EV]
Justice Geoffrey Slaughter concurred in the judgment, concluding that it was unnecessary for the court to reach whether the Indiana Constitution protects a right to abortion when the woman's life or health is in danger.
Justice Christopher Goff concurred as to the life/health exception, but dissented as to the right to abortion more broadly:
Within [the] "bundle of liberty rights" stands the fundamental "right to be let alone." In my view, even those who abhor abortion in all circumstances should be wary of unfettered government power over the most personal, private aspects of a person's life.
When, like here, a longstanding right is stripped from the United States Constitution, the only remaining restraint on the Indiana General Assembly's lawmaking power is our state constitution. That document guarantees "liberty" to all, an idea that means different things to different people. And when those ideas stand in tension, the state is responsible for protecting the minority interests against those of the majority. Otherwise, no one's liberty is secure. In addressing this case, therefore, we decide how much power the legislature has to restrict many of the freedoms that Hoosiers have come to depend on. And we resolve whether our Court will require the legislature to balance those freedoms meaningfully against its legitimate policy goals….
In my view, there is a reasonable likelihood that Article 1, Section 1's guarantee of "liberty" includes a qualified right to bodily autonomy, one which the General Assembly must accord some weight in the legislative balance. More importantly, I believe that the abortion question is fundamentally a matter of constitutional dimension that should be decided directly by the sovereign people of Indiana. I would thus urge my colleagues in the General Assembly to put before Hoosier voters the question whether the term "liberty" in Article 1, Section 1 of the Indiana Constitution protects a qualified right to bodily autonomy….
Rather than hold a constitutional referendum (like some other states), our colleagues in the General Assembly used a special legislative session (called for a wholly unrelated purpose) to implement a moment-of-conception abortion ban with only narrow exceptions. From first reading to the Governor's desk, Senate Bill 1 took just eleven days to become law.5 In fairness to our colleagues in the General Assembly, the United States Supreme Court left the abortion issue "to the people and their elected representatives." The Dobbs decision, moreover, was unprecedented in our nation's history; it simply could not have been predicted a generation ago. Still, Dobbs highlights an important principle in the preservation of our constitutional order: The people's rights cannot be "only as secure" as the United States Supreme Court "wishes to make them." …
Of course, any action we take to fill the void risks criticism as violating the separation of powers. On the other hand, prudential concerns counsel in favor of searching judicial review of legislation. Our constitution aims to prevent the concentration of authority in one branch of government. This Court, then, must supply a balance to the political branches and check any legislative overreach. We forsake that duty by simply deferring to the General Assembly's decision on how to weigh the people's liberty. To be sure, line-drawing on this issue is generally beyond the judicial purview. As we've emphasized before, such "classification," is largely "a question for the legislature."13 Yet there are "certain preserves of human endeavor" on "which the State must tread lightly, if at all"—"core values" that the legislature "may qualify but not alienate." In these areas, this Court must ensure that statutes leave sufficient scope for Hoosiers to exercise their freedom.
Ultimately, however, legislatures and courts are not the ultimate authority on questions of constitutional dimension. The people of Indiana should speak directly to the issue before us today through the constitutional amendment process. As the Dobbs Court itself instructed, the "permissibility of abortion, and the limitations, upon it, are to be resolved like most important questions in our democracy: by citizens trying to persuade one another and then voting." I would therefore urge my colleagues in the General Assembly to put to the people the issue of whether the guarantee of "liberty" in Article 1, Section 1 of the Indiana Constitution includes a qualified right to bodily autonomy.
Until that opportunity comes, and taking the constitution as it stands today, I would find a qualified right to bodily autonomy … I consider the Court's analysis flawed for two reasons. First, it fails to account for the absence of women in framing our 1851 constitution and unjustifiably diminishes the significance of the 1984 amendment to Article 1, Section 1. Second, it relies on a simplified historical narrative of what the framing generations of both 1851 and 1984 thought about abortion. [Details omitted. -EV]
For more on the broader protection of unenumerated rights under the Indiana Constitution, see here.
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It’s hard for me to see how exceptions to abortion bans to protect the health of the mother don’t end up swallowing the rule. Delivering a baby is a “serious health risk.” In almost any circumstance terminating a pregnancy is far safer than carrying it to term.
Courts are not supposed to read a law so that it is meaningless. If a law says "abortion is prohibited unless the mother's health is endangered" the the legislature must have meant endangered beyond what is inherent in pregnancy. Otherwise the law means "abortion is prohibited unless the mother is pregnant".
The actual phrasing is
The word "complicated" also implies something beyond the risk inherent in pregnancy.
Hmm, that’s true. And in any case, even with a real complication you’d need to find a doctor willing to roll the dice on whether the complication would be considered serious enough. A lot of intentional uncertainty built in.
Not seeing the "intentional uncertainty".
It is almost impossible to write laws so that a determined motivated lawyer can't avoid understanding them.
It certainly is in the US, which has by far the highest maternal death rate in the Western World.
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/nov/maternal-mortality-maternity-care-us-compared-10-countries
This “brief” makes a good argument for removing licensing restrictions on providing medical care to mothers, but is irrelevant to the actual discussion, as they attribute the differences to not enough midwives and similar taking care of mothers in the U.S., but too many requirements for a limited number of certified doctors to do so. Nothing really to do with abortion.
'In almost any circumstance terminating a pregnancy is far safer than carrying it to term.'
This does tend to be easily overlooked or dismissed, hence the right to choose.
And if I am a patient in a double-patient hospital room, it's almost always going to be safer for me to kill the other guy in my room so that there are fewer patients for the number of doctors.
What's the philosophical difference?
I'd say the other guy isn't inside you but that might trgger your homophobic hysteria.
Location is all in real estate -- not the right to life
Some numbers:
US death rate per 100,000 live births: 17
US death rate per 100,000 for all females aged 25-34: 79
US death rate per 100,000 for all males aged 25-34: 177
US death rate per 100,000 due to car accidents: 13
Data driven conclusion: giving birth leads to a modest increase in risk, comparable to riding in a car. It is far less risky than the jaw-dropping danger of being male.
Just to be clear: the first number is per birth, the others are per year. However, it's safe to assume that very few women give birth more than once per year.
So 100000 women aged 25-34 will have roughly 200000 live births over 10 years. Resulting in 34 deaths. Meanwhile total deaths over 10 years will be 790, in which the 34 will be included.
Hence carrying 2 children to term increases a woman’s risk of death between 25 and 34, by about 4%.
Thus each one increases the risk by 2%.
However in reality, almost all the deaths from live birth will happen to women with known health risks.
So the risk is likely to be high enough to meet the threshold of a substantial risk for say 10% of mothers, but minimal for the other 90%.
So the legal standard ought to be workable in practice.
The riding in car risk seems to be about twice the 2 kid risk, or four times the per kid risk. Let me just add – well done the docs, cos the live birth death figures from 100 years ago, never mind 200 would be a lot worse.
There's 100% risk of extreme pain, not to mention assorted health complications before during and after.
Nige - epidural - your ignorance of basic standard medical care is appalling.
Kill anybody who causes you pain -- aye your majesty!
Finnish researchers found that women are four times more likely to die in the year following abortion than women who give birth. Similar findings were reported in a record-based study of California women.
The figure above shows the age-adjusted relative risk of death in the year following a birth, miscarriage, or abortion compared to the rate of death among women not pregnant. The results are from a multi-year study of all women in Finland, linking death certificates to central registries for pregnancy outcomes. It clearly shows abortion is associated with an elevated risk of death, while carrying to term is associated with a lowered risk of death.
https://nifla.org/abortion-not-safer-women-childbirth/
That’s a propaganda piece from a propaganda site and doesn’t provide a link or a name of this Finnish research.
If you need to cite trash as truth, you are doing it wrong.
I don't like it ... therefor it's false.
Follow THE science!!!
It’s ipse dixit, just dressed up by liars.
I'm glad that my trashing you for citing and defending a propaganda article by an activist organization that didn't cite sources or methods has taught you something.
Unlike your source for "right-wing terrorism", this one does cite studies that actually exist. If you know how to use a search engine, you can quickly use the references to people and organizations to find them. They aren't directly linked from that site, but neither is the vast majority of the internet (including Reason.com) but it all still exists.
However, even accidentally, you happen to be mostly right - the studies mentioned are trash. The result they get is by measuring all-cause mortality among women that had abortions over the next few (2-8) years. The claim is that abortion raises the risk of suicide and other self-harming behaviors (drug use, promiscuity, etc) but none of the studies do anything to prove that claim. Similar studies with the same results from the US in general, and California in specific, also fail to show cause.
The studies do raise one good point, though - either Californians using Medi-Cal for abortions get them at 10 times the national average, or the official counting of abortions is significantly off in several reports.
Well ... except for the baby you chop up -- which also has an inalienable right to life
Oftentimes the 'health' exemption is stretched to the point where basically any abortion is legal anyway.
And remember the Trump exception to assassinating little American girls—if they call Trump a poopy head then he is free to kill them using Special Forces so long as they are on foreign soil. I bet SEALs never thought they would train to kill little American girls…but Trump is a norm buster.
You seem to be confusing Obama with Trump. Isn't he the guy who famously drone-struck an American?
Or maybe Biden with Trump. Not an American, but a 3=year old and other children.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/30/world/asia/afghanistan-drone-attack-ISIS.html
You seem to be forgetting that he's a parody account.
It was the first military action ordered by Trump—the Raid on Yakla. And like most things Trump touches it was FUBAR! Trump kept us safe.*
*as long as you don’t include 2020 in which China unleashed a bioweapon into America that Trump failed to stop that killed over a million Americans and disrupted the global economy.
Is that like Obama assassinating Americans overseas without a trial via bomb?
I think that’s why they clarified this one clearly. In VA where they said abortion is okay if mothers mental health was at risk turned into a meaningless restriction just like how they restrict child sex appearance changes.
I eagerly await this legal reasoning being applied to medical treatments that don't involve babies ending up dead. The range of currently restricted medical treatments they'd have to legalize is huge.
Already done for sex changes.
The court didn't change the law.
But this Slaughter dude thinks its his job to campaign for a Constitional amendment to change the law.
It doesn't work that way. To be fair, the Conspirators have occasionally suggested that there is an unenumerated right to experimental drug treatments. That said, (a) the Conspirators, like most lawprofs, cherish sexual freedom as the supreme (though unenumerated) right above all others, and (b) the judiciary shares that system of values in spades.
To recognize an unenumerated, implied right, we must conclude the right is "of such a quality that the founding generation would have considered it fundamental or 'natural.'"That is because what gives our Constitution force is that it reflects an agreement reached through the constitutional framing, ratifying, and amendment processes.
I detect a slight flaw in this argument.
Which is?
It disagrees with his preference for an infinitely malleable Constitution, when convenient to him and his ilk.
The group making that agreement systematically excluded women, among others.
Therefore, quite possibly, it did not consider rights – especially related to reproduction, but probably others as well – of particular interest to women.
Indeed, to the extent women, or Blacks, might have had somewhat different viewpoints on other rights, those viewpoints would have been ignored by framers, ratifiers, etc.
In addition, of course, it does not take into account social changes, knowledge gained, etc.
Strange to read an all male blog on this issue. Some real life stories (such as informed this decision) would be welcome.
captcrisis: I'm puzzled -- this post consists almost entirely of excerpts from Indiana Supreme Court opinions. The majority, which concludes there's no general constitutional right to abortion, is endorsed by two men and a woman (the Indiana Chief Justice). The partial dissent, which would recognize such a right, is by a man. True, neither included real life stories, but presumably that's so because they thought (rightly or wrongly) that those stories weren't really legally relevant.
But in any event, why is my sex, and especially the sex of most of my co-bloggers, relevant to these excerpts?
I don't agree with captcrisis on this post in particular; little in the opinions seems informed by real life stories. Also, I expect that deficiencies covering the issue of abortion are more likely the result of being conservatives than of being men.
For this post, I would complain that you deleted the details of the dissent's argument about the greater significance of the 1984 changes which seems an actual legal argument worth hearing about (instead it's mostly Goff's call for a constitutional referendum).
But yes, you can't include everything or post about every topic, and I understand that most of your blog posts are about cases where you filed amicus briefs, or that relate to your interests in the First Amendment, anonymous/pseudonymous litigation and legal issues related to ChatGPT.
But it is noteworthy that you do post some lurid tales, of transgender sorority members. sex in school parking lots, and sex on mattresses covering corpses, but little about the real life stories resulting from severe abortion restrictions, some of which might be related to your academic interests.
A possible example: Indiana law seems to require that doctors engage in compelled speech:
Apparently the subject of All-Options v. Attorney General of Indiana; if there was a post about it, I'd appreciate a link to it.
I am very curious as to what an "abortion inducing drug reversal internet web site" would be. Maybe it would be run by a crisis pregnancy center, like the one in this story about a woman whose ectopic pregnancy was misdiagnosed there, later rupturing and requiring emergency surgery.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article276894353.html
And it was interesting to see in John F. Carr's earlier comment that "serious health risk" excludes psychological or emotional conditions (although not relevant to this appeal). There's probably a lurid post to be found in examples of psychological harm of forced pregnancy.
There are well north of 300 million people in this country and no shortage of lurid stories, but the number of human beings killed with the "psychological or emotional condition" excuse is, I don't doubt for a second, far larger.
Asks the guy who:
operates a remarkably white, against-the-odds male blog;
publishes vile racial slurs habitually at his blog;
favors affirmative action for right-wing law professors with respect to mainstream law school faculties (Heterodox Academy, for example) but doesn't seem quite as bothered by the number of right-wingers employed as clerks by Federalist Society judges;
looked the other way when his right-wing employer harassed more than a dozen women, then remained quiet when the misconduct became a matter of public concern (still hasn't said a discouraging word about his disgraced, misogynistic, right-wing hero, so far as I am aware);
feeds his carefully cultivated collection of bigoted fans a steady stream of transgender sorority drama; drag queen; Muslim; lesbian; transgender parenting; gay; transgender rest room; and similar content (while conspicuously ignoring important and prominent developments concerning defamation, one of his ostensible areas of focus);
enthusiastically and publicly endorsed an un-American jerk (John Eastman), but hasn't had the courage to publish a word about Eastman after Eastman's un-American activities became a prominent matter of public concern;
claims to be a champion of free expression, yet censors liberals for making fun of or criticizing conservatives (while permitting conservatives to use bigoted slurs at his blog daily and to regularly call for liberals to be killed in graphic terms); and
uses vile racial slurs in class, even after being asked to be slightly less bigoted by students and after his dean apologized for his conduct.
If sex is not an important factor in selection of Volokh Conspiracy members, why is this blog so strikingly white and odds-defyingly male*?
(A woman who switches political registration to become "independent" and game the system for the cause of bigoted movement conservatism seems to become an exception, eligible for admission to the club.)
Carry on, clingers.
Somebody conduct a wellness check on Drackman. He’s usually the one who tries to defend your hero in a situation like this, while the rest of you look downward and inspect the tips of your shoes.
Regarding the court, it's not particularly difficult to find members of a group who support actions against their group. Heck, I'm sure you could find African Americans during the US civil war who supported slavery.
As for the gender of the bloggers, I concur that it's a bit unfair since blogging is disproportionately male. But there's editorial discretion in the cases to follow, excerpt, and particularly opine about. When decisions are made for a group with very little representation from that group the decisions are often poorly reasoned.
I think men not being allowed to stick their nose in ‘women’s business’ (ignoring the fact plenty of males are killed or otherwise seriously affected by abortion) is fair as long as it works both ways. Its a little suprising to see even progs getting behind bringing back old fashioned sex segregation.
For convenience:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/245618/abortion-trends-gender.aspx
I don't know what he's on about, we've already had Brett provide the women's viewpoint: 'being upset.'
Hey, there's no need to worry about sex segregation - trans men can get pregnant and also whould have the right to choose.
To me, the fact that progressives are not willing to cancel child support obligations when the woman doesn't exercise her "choice" but the father wanted it aborted, discredits their argument about gender equality and "not sticking nose in others' businesses"
In other words, men should be allowed to force women to undergo a 9 month pregnancy, culminating in a painful vaginal birth/C-section that they won't physically recover from for over a year.
Classic pattern in the dissent: parts of law and history he doesn’t prefer don’t matter because women couldn’t vote at the time, other parts he likes matter a lot, regardless of the fact that women couldn’t vote at the time.
AND he thinks his supposed legal opinion ought to be an appeal to the legislature to promote a change the law, never mind that their opinion on the matter under discussion is so strong that they couldn't wait to exercise their restored powers under Dobbs. Because he knows so much better than they do what the law ought to be. I'm sure that that is why he was put in a robe.
In California at least, it seems that the "health of the mother" was easily dispensed with, by reasoning that if a woman had to carry a child to term, that she didn't want, it would cause her to be depressed, and thus, the abortion was for "the health of the mother", no matter how blasé the woman was in terminating her pregnancy.
Attempting to prevent that is of course exactly why the law was written the way it was.
Very sad forced birthers today that they can't put the woman's life at risk in order to force her to deliver.
Who is sad about that other than fantasy people you made up and maybe one or two way out there extremists?
STATES RANKED BY EDUCATIONAL ATTAINMENT
HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA
Indiana 31
UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE
Indiana 43
ADVANCED DEGREE
Indiana 42
The Supreme Court of Indiana is an all-Republican court in a poorly educated, archaic state. Precisely what level of quality would a reasonable person expect from the work of Supreme Court of Indiana?
Carry on, clingers. Indiana-style. So far as better Americans permit.
But Indiana does have Rise'n Roll bakeries, which make the best donuts on this planet.
The only time I can recall stopping in Indiana for anything other than gasoline and a piss involved a trip to Notre Dame for a basketball game.
Our group occupied nearly all of the rooms at our relatively small hotel (Notre Dame was a very small town at that time). There was no hot water. Not only in the middle of winter, but during a once-a-century cold wave. One of our assistant coaches told us the next day before practice that every visiting team received the 'no hot water' treatment in South Bend.
(If only we had had handmaids -- turns out they're a thing in South Bend, but we never imagined it -- to fix a proper shower for us.)
“In fact, it is not clear to us that the claim asserted by some amici that one has an unlimited right to do with ones body as one pleases bears a close relationship with the right of privacy as articulated in the Court’s decisions.”
Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973)
"It’s that they think that a first principle is you own your body"
And my point is that they don't, really, because such a principle has all sorts of radical implications in the medical field that they never follow up on.
What you need to understand is that said "rapist's child" is also a human being, also with an inalienable right to life.
It is very convenient if you want an illegal abortion to imagine up that claimed "substantial risk".
"people who want to use government force to make 10 year olds bear their rapist’s children"
- This never happened and these claimed "people" don't exist.
“‘…it is not clear to us…’ Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973)”
One does not consult shit-for-brains to seek clarity.
E.g., kiritarch Slaughter: "When, like here, a longstanding right is stripped from the United States Constitution..."
No, SCOTUS decided that never been there.
Not until it's born it's not.
In the 3rd trimester? Yeah, it's mostly a human being.
In the 1st trimester? It's a clump of cells.
That 1st trimester clump of cells is only a human being with an inalienable right to life according to your religious beliefs. But the US constitution is supposed to keep religion out of it so that's no justification for forcing a 10 year old to carry a rapist's child to term and undergo an extremely painful birth, or a major medical procedure with a C-section.
Not being able to get it merely on account of being upset if you don't get it is kind of baked into the concept of "not an elective procedure".
As if gander is representative of anything other than his own bullshit.
What, poor people should be 'allowed' to sell their organs to the rich? That's not bodily autonomy, that's libertarian feudalism.
Like being allowed to reject an experimental RNA "vaccine?"
OK, for starters, there are all sorts of drugs whose use would not be remotely as restricted if this were a real principle.
Aromase inhibitors, for instance. Fat guys would have a LOT easier time losing weight if they weren't restricted to the treatment of breast cancer.
There are some chemo drugs that, in much lower dosages, are showing real promise for slowing the aging process by aiding the body in getting ride of senescent cells.
Narcolepsy drugs like Modafinil or Amodifinil would be a life saver for treating jet lag.
Basically, if you took this supposed principle seriously, our current rules restricting use of a lot of drugs would be unconstitutional.
What species is it before that, Martin?
"Fat guys would have a LOT easier time losing weight if they weren’t restricted to the treatment of breast cancer."
Maybe they would stop buying up all the Ozempic I need for my diabetes.
'Basically, if you took this supposed principle seriously, our current rules restricting use of a lot of drugs would be unconstitutional.'
Why, would they travel back in time to the writing of the constitution and change it accordingly?
"Upset" covers a lot of ground. Like most issues of constitutional interpretation, it comes down to an exercise in line drawing.
Which is also the problem with the "rape" exception. Most women are willing to lie about rape to get what they want, and a majority of claimed rapes are not.
Before that it's part of another human being. I'm not sure why that's difficult to understand.
Maybe if pro-abort doctors hadn't been issuing pretextual findings of mental health "necessity" to turn late term abortions into an elective procedure, it wouldn't be necessary to draw that line so heavily.
Wow, every serious researcher thinks rape and sexual assault are massively under reported (well under 50%).
Meanwhile, you've managed to convince yourself of the complete opposite.
Got proof of that? So much of this area is just supposition.
So, your assumption is that people who think abortion should be available electively for no reason, and who face no consequences for lying about medical necessity, will none the less be perfectly honest? Wow.
My assumption is that /the idea that pretextual findings of mental health necessity are or ever were a widespread practice requires some evidence before it's to be taken as true.
Your appealing to incredulity here is not a good sign.
It’s an interesting question. Fortunately, there does seem to have been a little research done on the topic.
One source (Foster, Kimport) cited that 30% of women surveyed that had ‘late-term’ abortions did so due to mental issues (depression, fear, DV PTSD, etc). First-trimester abortion patients gave the same percentage for this reason.
In addition, I did find a 2022 New York Times article from the days leading up to Dobbs that cited reports from pre-Roe where 85% of California abortions were allowed for reasons of mental health. According to the article’s links, New York was 80% at the time.
However, post-Roe, by 1975 both New York and California seem to have stopped tracking that reason (the data sets linked stop in 1975 and 1973 respectively).
So, at the very least, it looks like the number claiming mental health as a reason has decreased dramatically since abortion became widely available without a psychiatrist’s or doctor’s recommendation.
So when does it become a human being?
And why does life start at conception for the life cycle of every other animal, but not for humans?
You are, at this exact moment, just a "clump of cells". Yet, most people would call you a human being.