The Volokh Conspiracy
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Amicus Brief Opposing Stop W.O.K.E. Act's Limits on Public University Teaching
My students Pareesa Darafshi, Gerardo Valentino Gorospe IV, and Philip Raucci and I just submitted this brief on behalf of the Academic Freedom Alliance in Pernell & Novoa v. Lamb, the Eleventh Circuit case challenging the Stop W.O.K.E. Act. As you'll see, the brief has to deal with Bishop v. Aronov, the Eleventh Circuit precedent that had upheld some restrictions on teaching by a public university professor; the argument is therefore different than what it might have been if we were writing on a clean slate.
Summary of Argument
[I.] The Florida Act bars professors from "espous[ing], promot[ing], or advanc[ing]," Fla. Stat. § 1000.05(4)(a), a wide range of "concept[s]" that appear in debates at the heart of many university courses. These include discussions of important policy proposals that are constantly in the news, in court, and in legislatures: affirmative action, racial profiling, the participation of transgender athletes in sports, and more.
The Act thus cannot be justified by Bishop v. Aronov, 926 F.2d 1066 (11th Cir. 1991). The Bishop decision upheld a university's restriction on a professor's discussing his personal religious beliefs in a class on exercise physiology; such a restriction, this Court reasoned, "asks only that [the professor] separate his personal and professional beliefs and that he not impart the former to his students during 'instructional time' or under the guise of the courses he teaches." Id. at 1071. Yet the Florida Act covers "professional" views as much as "personal" ones, including when they are directly relevant to the courses rather than being presented "under the guise of [the] courses."
[II.] Nor can the Act be saved on the theory that it bans only "espous[ing]" certain concepts and lets professors "discuss" those concepts "in an objective manner." What is or is not "objective" is often perceived highly subjectively. Even professors who do set forth both (or all) sides of an argument may be accused of deliberately framing one side well and another side badly; spending too much time on one side and not another; trying to spread their own views under the guise of objectivity; or even discussing one side in a positive tone of voice and the other in a way that is seen as critical or sarcastic.
That risk of allegations that classroom speech lacks "objectiv[ity]" is especially high in impromptu oral give-and-take between the professor and students, whether in a seminar, in a Socratic discussion, or in answers to questions. The Act thus tends to chill professors from seriously discussing certain subjects, notwithstanding the supposed savings clause for "objective" discussion.
[III.] The Act affects the First Amendment rights of speakers across the political spectrum, and across a wide range of topics. For instance, a serious discussion of the merits of traditionalist attitudes towards sex roles—attitudes that might no longer be endorsed in many contexts by American law, but that had been part of world history for millennia and are still approved of in many countries and by many religious traditions—might be seen as "advanc[ing]" the view that men "should not attempt to treat [women] without respect to … sex." § 1000.05(4)(a)(4). A discussion of the merits of same-sex sports teams might be seen as "endors[ing]" the views that men "should be discriminated against" (by being excluded from women-only teams) "to achieve diversity, equity, or inclusion" for women athletes. § 1000.05(4)(a)(6). And if the Act is upheld, that will set a precedent for other legislatures banning the expression of still other views, whether pro-capitalist or anti-capitalist, pro-environmentalist or anti-environmentalist, pro-affirmative-action or anti-affirmative-action, and more.
For all these reasons, the Act is unconstitutionally vague and overbroad, and the decision below should be affirmed.
Argument
[I.] The Act prohibits speech that is integral to class discussion, and therefore cannot be justified under Bishop
This Court's Bishop precedent calls for a balance between the University's having "some authority over the conduct of teachers in and out of the classroom" and the "strong predilection for academic freedom as an adjunct of the free speech rights of the First Amendment." Id. at 1074. In Bishop, this Court upheld a university's "demand[ing]" "the separation of [a professor's] personal views from his professorial duties." Id. at 1076 n.7. "Dr. Bishop's professional views" and "his religious beliefs," this Court held, "have to be conceptually separated for fair analysis," and the university must have "the authority … to request that [Bishop] sequester the personal from the professional." Id.
In contrast, the Florida Act applies to speech that is central to serious debates in a wide range of classes, such as history, law, sociology, criminology, anthropology, philosophy, and more. For example, the Act prohibits instruction that "advances" the "concept[]" that a "person, by virtue of his or her race, color, national origin, or sex, should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment to achieve diversity, equity, or inclusion." Fla. Stat. § 1000.05(4)(a)(6). Yet that concept, whether one agrees with it or not, is central to many defenses of affirmative action based on race, ethnicity, and sex. This means that law professors seeking to discuss the Supreme Court's affirmative action cases would be sharply limited in their ability to discuss one of the key arguments on one side of the debate.
Likewise, reparations for slavery are a controversial subject—but one that is constantly in the news, and that would indubitably arise in many serious classes that touch on modern race relations. Under the Act, professors would be unable to candidly and thoroughly discuss this topic, for fear of being seen as "advanc[ing]" the argument that "A person, by virtue of his or her race, color, national origin, or sex bears responsibility for, or should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment because of, actions committed in the past by other members of the same race, color, national origin, or sex." § 1000.05(4)(a)(7).
Similarly, classes on sociology, criminology, psychology, anthropology, criminal law, employment law, and many more subjects routinely discuss the question whether people generally—or members of specific groups in particular—are especially likely to engage in subconscious bias. Yet professors are in peril whenever they discuss these arguments, because the arguments may be seen as stating that "A person, by virtue of his or her race, color, national origin, or sex is inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously." § 1000.05(4)(a)(2).
That Bishop's personal views on theology could be excluded from a university class on physiology thus cannot justify upholding the Act: The Act restricts the free and frank discussion of questions that are a central to a class's subject matter, not just of distant tangents. It thus fails the First Amendment test set forth in Bishop, for reasons discussed in more detail in the Brief of Appellees Novoa et al. at 34-39.
[II.] The "savings clause" does not actually save the statute
To be sure, the Act purports to allow professors to "discuss" the prohibited eight concepts, so long as they do so "in an objective manner without endorsement of the concepts." § 1000.05(4). But that offers no safe harbor, because what counts as "objective" will necessarily be in the eye of the beholder.
Consider, for instance, a professor discussing the arguments in the Supreme Court's affirmative action cases. Even a professor who is striving hard to be "objective" may spend more time on one side than another. The arguments for one side may be more complex. Students may have more questions about one side. Students may have a harder time understanding one side, and may need more explanation of that side. Yet all these choices could be perceived by some students as betraying a lack of "objectiv[ity]."
And of course sometimes a professor may need to set forth the best argument for a particular side because the students are not adequately grasping the argument. The professor may only be seeking to explain the argument to the students, and may even disclaim any attempt to endorse the argument. But some students might nonetheless view this as a non-"objective" discussion.
Observers may also perceive what they view as a lack of "objectiv[ity]" in matters such as a professor's tone or emphasis. They might see a professor's responses to some students as dismissive, patronizing, or even sarcastic, while other observers may view the same remarks as thoughtful and balanced. Likewise, they might think that the professor is offering only a straw man argument for one side, while providing a much stronger argument for the other.
Such subjective perceptions of a lack of objectivity are especially likely for two reasons. First, it is human nature to perceive people one generally agrees with as "objective" and people on the other side of various debates as "biased." After all, people tend to view their sides as reasonable and correct (attributes that are commonly seen as connected with objectivity) and their adversaries as unreasonable and misguided. Students, administrators, and others are thus likely to often infer a lack of objectivity on the part of professors simply because they disagree with the professors' views.
Second, sometimes the professor will have expressed a particular view outside class, whether in scholarship, public commentary, litigation, or any other exercise of the professor's First Amendment rights. If a professor is known as a supporter of affirmative action, for instance, many people will perceive even a balanced in-class discussion of the arguments for affirmative action as "espous[ing]," "promot[ing]," or "advanc[ing]" those arguments, rather than as being "objective."
Aware of this risk, careful professors may reasonably avoid discussing the perilous arguments altogether, rather than relying on an uncertain protection for supposedly "objective" "discuss[ion]." And that is especially so because much in-class discussion—especially in smaller seminars or in classes that are taught Socratically—is largely spontaneous. All of us recognize that sometimes something we say may be misperceived; we are even more aware that sometimes discussions that we view as objective will come across otherwise. In striking down vague loyalty oaths in Baggett v. Bullitt, 377 U.S. 360 (1964), the Court reasoned:
The uncertain meanings of the oaths require the oath-taker—teachers and public servants—to "steer far wider of the unlawful zone" than if the boundaries of the forbidden areas were clearly marked. Those with a conscientious regard for what they solemnly swear or affirm, sensitive to the perils posed by the oath's indefinite language, avoid the risk of loss of employment, and perhaps profession, only by restricting their conduct to that which is unquestionably safe. Free speech may not be so inhibited.
Id. at 372 (citation omitted). The same is true of vague safe harbors for supposed "objectiv[ity]."
The Court's decision in Gentile v. State Bar, 501 U.S. 1030 (1991), offers a helpful analogy. In that case, a supposed "safe harbor" provision allowed lawyers to publicly discuss the "general" nature of their defense, if they did so without "elaboration." But this, the Court held, actually offered no safety:
[T]he Rule fails to provide fair notice to those to whom it is directed. A lawyer seeking to avail himself of Rule 177(3)'s protection must guess at its contours. The right to explain the "general" nature of the defense without "elaboration" provides insufficient guidance because "general" and "elaboration" are both classic terms of degree. In the context before us, these terms have no settled usage or tradition of interpretation in law. The lawyer has no principle for determining when his remarks pass from the safe harbor of the general to the forbidden sea of the elaborated.
Id. at 1048-49 (cleaned up). The same is true here: The distinction between "objective" "discuss[ion]" of certain "concepts" and forbidden "espous[al]," "promot[ion]," or "advance[ment]" provides "insufficient guidance" where First Amendment rights are involved.
Indeed, under the Florida Act, "[i]t would be a bold teacher who would not stay as far as possible from utterances or acts which might jeopardize his living by enmeshing him in [the] intricate machinery," Keyishian v. Bd. of Regents, 385 U.S. 589, 601 (1967), that would necessarily be deployed in determining whether a spontaneously flowing class discussion was sufficiently "objective." The Florida Act will thus cause the very sort of "pall of orthodoxy over the classroom" that "the First Amendment … does not tolerate." Id. at 603.
Finally, sometimes students may ask professors for their personal, non-"objective" opinions. "OK, we've heard your presentation of the arguments for and against affirmative action, professor; but what do you think?" This is a normal exchange to have in a university context, especially in a small seminar that is supposed to be a conversation among fellow scholars.
Yet under the Act, professors would be unable to express their honest views on the subject, for fear that any such expression—and perhaps all the other expression that came before it—will be seen as not just "objective" "discuss[ion]" of certain ideas, but as forbidden "espous[al]," "promot[ion]," or "advance[ment]" of those ideas. Indeed, the professors might not even be able to respond, "I'm afraid I shouldn't answer, given the Florida Act," because that itself may betray their views. After all, if their views were consistent with the Florida Legislature's, they would be free to answer; the Act would only forbid the expression of their views if the views are the ones that the Legislature condemned.
To be safe, professors would just have to have a general "no comment" policy as to any matters on the prohibited list. Yet "[t]eachers and students must always remain free to inquire, to study and to evaluate, to gain new maturity and understanding; otherwise our civilization will stagnate and die," and this sort of "[s]cholarship cannot flourish in an atmosphere of suspicion and distrust." Sweezy v. N.H., 354 U.S. 234, 250 (1957) (plurality opin.). Such inquiry and scholarship likewise "cannot flourish in an atmosphere" of legislatively mandated "no comment." The First Amendment cannot tolerate such "governmental intrusion into the intellectual life of a university," which causes "grave harm" to the marketplace of ideas. Id. (Frankfurter, J., joined by Harlan, J., concurring). Again, this chilling effect that the Act imposes on professors' speech further shows that the Act is unconstitutionally overbroad, and is not saved by the vague "objective" "discuss[ion]" provision.
[III.] The Act affects the First Amendment rights of speakers across the political spectrum
The Act would of course be unconstitutional even if it limited only the speech of the "woke," as the initial name of the Act—Stop W.O.K.E. Act—suggests. But the Act is vastly broader than that.
Consider, for instance, the prohibition on speech that "advances" the "concept" that "[a] person, by virtue of his or her … sex … should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment to achieve diversity, equity, or inclusion." Fla. Stat. § 1000.05(4)(a)(6). This "concept" literally includes the view—a view embedded in current American law—that men should be excluded "by virtue of [their] … sex" from women's sports teams in order to promote "diversity, equity, or inclusion."
The Act would thus bar arguments that transgender athletes should not be allowed on women's teams. But even beyond that, it would bar a defense of the well-established position that those athletes who are undisputedly male should be excluded from women's teams.
Likewise, the Act prohibits university classroom speech that "advances" the "concept" that "Members of one … sex … should not attempt to treat others without respect to … sex." § 1000.05(4)(a)(4). Of course, many religious, cultural, and moral traditions take the view that men should treat women differently because they are women. Indeed, throughout human history, this view has seemingly been the norm.
This view is still commonly acted on by people in family life, social life, and religious life even in modern America, where discrimination in employment and other contexts based on sex is generally banned. Theorizing that such a view is sound, because men and women really are different in important ways, would thus be forbidden.
And the Act would also forbid arguments that some facets of modern culture may have gone too far in erasing sex differences—for instance, that the military may have erred in allowing women in combat roles, or that boys should be raised to take a more traditionally "chivalrous" view towards women. Yet such arguments are of course fundamental to important debates about law, social organization, moral philosophy, religion, and more.
Criminology or psychology classes may also need to discuss the reality that, in our own society and throughout the world, men tend to be more violent than women, and thus that women tend to be less violent than men. Yet statements that "advance[]" this "concept" would be forbidden on the theory that they suggest that "[m]embers of one … sex are morally superior to members of another … sex." § 1000.05(4)(a)(1).
Classes that deal with comparative politics or economic development also have to confront the reality that some countries are much more politically and economically successful than others. There are many possible explanations for such national differences, but some of them turn on differences in the nations' cultural attitudes towards morally laden matters such as corruption, trust, industriousness, education, individual freedom, personal violence, and the like.
The Act would, however, ban any teaching that "advances" such "concepts," because those could be seen as expressing the view that "[m]embers of one … national origin … are morally superior to members of another … national origin." Fla. Stat. § 1000.05(4)(a)(1). "National origin," after all, refers not just to distant ethnic origin but also to "the country where a person was born." Espinoza v. Farah Mfg. Co., 414 U.S. 86, 88 (1973).
A statement such as, "Germany does better economically than Spain because Germans tend to be less corrupt in business and government" would thus be forbidden by the Act.[1] Likewise, statements such as, "The success of Chinese immigrants in many societies stems in large part from their greater commitment to education" would be forbidden as well.[2]
The Act also prohibits teaching "that a person's … status as either privileged or oppressed is necessarily determined by his or her race, color, national origin, or sex." Fla. Stat. § 1000.05(4)(a)(3). This means that a professor could not argue against race-based affirmative action by claiming that affirmative action programs are improper because they "necessarily" give non-whites a "privileged" "status."
And of course, these are just applications of the Florida Act itself. If the Act is upheld, then such a precedent could equally be used by other state legislatures to ban a vast range of other views, whether on the Left, Right, or otherwise. A legislature that disapproved of free market economics could ban teaching that "advances" such "concepts." A legislature that disapproved of criticism of race-based affirmative action could ban teaching that advances the concept that the government should be color-blind. Legislatures that took particular views on environmentalism or climate change could ban any teaching that advances concepts inconsistent with those legislatures' views. That is not consistent with "Our Nation['s] … deep[] commit[ment] to safeguarding academic freedom," Keyishian, 385 U.S. at 603.
Conclusion
The Florida Act abridges the First Amendment rights of a vast range of speakers—"woke" and otherwise—by interfering with university professors' ability to have honest and thorough classroom discussions with their students. It chills discussions on speech that is directly related to course content. And the illusory supposed safe harbor for "objective" speech cannot provide constitutionally adequate protection.
[1] Cf., e.g., Transparency Int'l, Corruption Perceptions Index, https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021 (reporting large difference in perception of corruption in Germany and in Spain); Agyenim Boateng, Yan Wang, Collins Ntim & Keith W. Glaister, National Culture, Corporate Governance and Corruption: A Cross-Country Analysis, 26 Int'l J. Fin. & Econ. 3852 (2020) (discussing, throughout the article, the effects of various cultural attributes as well as legal rules on corruption, and noting at pp. 3859 & 3863 that having a German- or Scandinavian-origin legal system is associated with lower corruption than having a French- or Spanish-origin legal system).
[2] Cf., e.g., Amy Hsin & Yue Xie, Explaining Asian Americans' Academic Advantage оver Whites, 111 Proc. Nat'l Acad. Sci. 8416, 8416 (2014) (concluding that "the Asian-American educational advantage is attributable mainly to Asian students exerting greater academic effort" and "the disadvantaged children of Chinese and Vietnamese immigrant families routinely surpass the educational attainment of their native-born, middle-class white peers").
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Kindler/Gentler Frank here,
not sure I follow your arguments, but your side certainly has some impressive handles, "Pareesa", "Gerardo Valentino Gorospe IV" (does he go by "GVGIV"??), and Philip Raucci
whatever happened to "Manny, Moe, and Jack"??
Frank
Well, Gerardo Valentino Gorospe IV goes by Tino in ordinary life, though, like many lawyers, uses his full name in court filings. And Manny, Moe & Jack were, according to Wikipedia, Emanuel Rosenfeld, Maurice Strauss, and W. Graham Jackson; who knows how "impressive" Jackson's full first name might have been? (The second Moe, Moe Radavitz, had apparently left the company by the time the "Manny, Moe & Jack" label came around.) Plus Pep Boys was founded in Bala Cynwyd, Pennsylvania.
What’s impressive is that Gerardo is a IV. That’s some family tradition and makes me wonder what the other three Gerardos were like.
Older.
Looks like you are teaching your students well, Volokh. Now consider the poor students in Blackman's class being taught the opposite: that the Woke Act is kosher in all aspects. I wonder which class will do better in the real world.
Based on current conditions in San Francisco I’d say the students getting the “woke” education aren’t gonna turn out so hot.
That said, I agree with you that university professors should be allowed to teach what they want. The issue is with the lower grades where the audience is made up of captive minors…..
According to Prof. Volokh, under the existing law, public university professors must be allowed to teach what they want. I wouldn't presume to argue the legal point with him. But should they be allowed to do so? I don't think so. I'd let taxpayers, through their elected representatives, decide what gets taught in public universities. (Though my preferred solution would be to eliminate public colleges / universities altogether.)
I’d let taxpayers, through their elected representatives, decide what gets taught in public universities.
However ideological education is when you faculty determine curriculum, it would be vastly worse if we let the legislature do it.
Except that the Stop WOKE Act is an improvement.
Based on current conditions in San Francisco I’d say the students getting the “woke” education aren’t gonna turn out so hot.
These 2 things are not causally related.
My goal is to make sure that my students understand the strongest legal arguments for and against the constitutionality of the Act. In this instance, the students wrote a brief arguing that it's unconstitutional, but I hope they understood well the counterarguments; I certainly didn't aim to teach them any bottom line as to it. I haven't seen anything from Josh suggesting that he's teaching his students "that the Woke Act is kosher in all aspects."
Of course this law is unconstitutional. I would hope "free and open debate" doesn't mean someone can curl up in a ball and call a lawyer to win.
I'm not referring to the usual extreme BS of things around here, deliberately nasty words and phrases, of course.
Sick burn
I haven’t seen anything from Josh suggesting that he’s teaching his students “that the Woke Act is kosher in all aspects.”
I remember that when classes were virtual that Prof. Blackman was posting the classes here. (or at least some of them) One class that I remember included a discussion of recent local government Establishment Clause cases. (American Legion v. American Humanist Association and/or Town of Greece, if I remember correctly.)
At first, I thought his questioning of students was well done, and I even posted as much. (I am a science teacher, so teaching techniques interested me.) In retrospect, I am less than impressed, because I noticed that his questions to students about how they would argue the case were one sided. He only asked how they would argue the position of the local governments and never asked how they would argue against the religious display or practice by government.
The bias of a teacher can be subtle. (His posts here certainly aren't.)
But absolutely no interest in taking on Arizona State University, who shut down a student help center and fired the staff int it because they invited speakers that the faculty disagreed with politically. Once again, the Wall Street Journal proves itself to be the real libertarian voice in media: (article by Ann Atkinson, "I Paid For Free Speech at Arizona State".
Hold your horses, dude! I just saw this article, which was posted yesterday; it takes time to look into things like this and figure out what actually happened.
...it takes time to look into things like this and figure out what actually happened.
Social media has made this idea of yours very...quaint.
I asked someone who I thought might know, and earlier today that person posted me to a local news article on the matter. According to that article, the donor who largely funded the center that Ann Atkinson ran -- a " a prolific donor to charitable causes throughout Arizona, as well as to conservative activists," including "$225,000 in donations to Prager University and $50,000 to Turning Point" -- was disappointed by the faculty members' letter criticizing the event, and decided to pull the funding. Hard to see that ASU censoring Atkinson's speech, if the facts described in the news article are correct; please e-mail me if you know of evidence that they aren't.
I'm glad you were able to find out more information.
I suppose that Ann Atkinson can still claim that the help center she ran was shut down because of the faculty that disagreed with their invitation to Charlie Kirk and Dennis Prager to speak, if you consider things from a certain point of view.
See, some three dozen faculty of the Honors College wrote a letter criticizing the speakers for things they've said in the past. Sure, they didn't actually call for them to not be allowed to speak, saying that they just wanted it to be clear that those speakers don't represent them as faculty of the that Honors College when the name and logo of it were used to advertise the event. The conservative donor that funded the center was annoyed that the faculty would whine about that and pulled the funding. Thus, the root cause of the center being defunded was the faculty that complained about being associated with two controversial conservative speakers. QED!
I have a hard time buying that there is a First Amendment right to teach anything in a publicly funded university. The professor is being paid to teach, so he is on the clock. In a university paid-for building. I fail to see how the First Amendment gives him a "right" to express himself. If he wants to do that, he can go out to the public park.
Suppose in the middle of a calculus class, the professor decides to start espousing his political views. Does he have a First Amendment right to do that, in that time and place? Or can the university rightfully complain that, we are paying you to teach calculus. Espouse your views on your own time.
I agree with you on classroom speech. And since you mentioned calculus, many universities do in fact have a standard calculus syllabus specified down to the topics to be covered each day, and require professors to use particular textbooks and to give exams written by other professors. I think taking it that far is poor management but it’s common practice and I don’t see any First Amendment issue.
For on-the-clock research, it’s *very* poor management to over-specify what they work on, it kills innovation and spontaneous discovery. However, it’s still no different *in principle* for Florida to tell a professor what to research than for Los Alamos or Oak Ridge to tell a staff member what to research. I’m not aware that faculty have special first amendment rights. All they’ve got is university internal commitments to free inquiry.
Where Florida may have overstepped is limiting “professional” speech by professors in general. If an instructor gives an interview on MSNBC as an “expert” in race relations, and says whites are born guilty, I think he ought to be protected from threats to his university job, not just as policy but as First Amendment issue. Unless he claims the interview as a work accomplishment, it’s not part of his job and we should be using government employment as a tool to discourage or encourage off-the-job speech.
Should not
Two things:
1. It's fine for the department chair to insist that the calculus teacher teach calculus. But not the legislature.
2. As for research, an awful lot is funded by grants, which generally pay generous overhead to the university in addition to the direct grant. The taxpayers aren't paying for it. In fact they benefit, because the grants help fund the university.
"1. It’s fine for the department chair to insist that the calculus teacher teach calculus. But not the legislature."
The constitution does not enact bernard11's preferred university management structure.
1. Department chairs? I suppose your point is that you want the math content to be supervised by a mathematician. Which is good policy but not a free speech issue. Experts and ignoramuses are equally protected (or unprotected).
Even as policy, though, I don’t think a PhD in math gives one special insight on race or justice, and therefore neither the chair or the faculty ought to be making it their business in the classroom. I'm fine with prohibiting it as a condition of employment, and whether the legislature decides to delegate that call to department chairs rightfully depends on whether the chairs can be trusted.
I think the rules for a graduate elective seminar in political science need to be different from a community college class in diesel mechanics. The classical concept of academic freedom and its supposed benefits are much less applicable the second case. The legislature shouldn’t write the syllabus but they are entitled to require that the course be exactly and only about diesel mechanics.
2. Unless it’s an industry grant, the money ultimately comes from taxpayers one way or another. You know that. The question is which taxpayers. Texas wants me to go after federal grants, obviously, so that the overhead offsets state money.
It sounds like you're arguing that the Stop Woke act is unconstitutional, since it would impact that political science seminar to the same extent as the diesel mechanics class.
No, I’m arguing, perhaps not very coherently, that it’s all constitutional (unless applied to off-the-job speech), but that a well-run university administration is going to expect, and allow, a lot more variation in that seminar than in the diesel mechanics class.
It would be fine and constitutional to prohibit the diesel instructor from bring up politics at all. It would constitutional but stupid to do the same to the graduate political science seminar.
All the above just my opinion of course. Apparently the courts think differently.
Although typically on-the-job-speech is government speech and can be controlled by the government as employer, as quoted in Eugene’s brief, Eleventh Circuit precedent recognizes academic freedom in the university environment even for in-class speech
Almost certainly not because under Bishop, he would be espousing his personal views unrelated to the course. But the Stop WOKE Act censors professional beliefs related to the course which is not permitted by Bishop.
I have a hard time buying that there is a First Amendment right to teach anything in a publicly funded university. The professor is being paid to teach, so he is on the clock. In a university paid-for building. I fail to see how the First Amendment gives him a “right” to express himself. If he wants to do that, he can go out to the public park.
Setting aside the constitutional question for the moment, let's consider whether tighter government control of what professors say in class is a good idea. Hopefully, everyone will see that it absolutely is not.
The right portion of America's political spectrum has been complaining about 'indoctrination' in leftist political ideals at universities since before I was born. And that is with protections for academic freedom. I can only imagine what would happen if a lefty state government actually got to tell professors what to say about politics in courses that touch on it.
It is more for my own amusement than real speculation about motives, but I could suggest that the complaints by conservatives about 'indoctrination' by the left is really just jealousy that they don't have enough ability to indoctrinate students in the "correct" views.
Governments have been tightly controlling what is taught in classrooms since well before you were born, and have been getting worse constantly over these past decades - do you think textbook choices are made randomly? That the Learning Standards (or whatever test was chosen) and No Child Left Behind laws were somehow freeing the teachers to expand into other content?
This is a topic that is independent of party; the party just indicates which set of teachings they want. You act all offended and insulting about "conservatives" and their "jealousy", but you ignore the plank in your eye.
And that's even ignoring that in this case, the restrictions you are fighting against are restrictions on teaching racism, sexism, bigotry, and hatred. Are you sure you want to argue for that to be government approved class content?
Summary: No teacher can be perfectly objective, so we have to let the White-haters teach hatred of Whites all the time. Anyone who speaks in favor of Whites will be fired, of course. This all required by the Constitution.
Whitey ain't going to pay for this crap.
progressives are so consumed with racial hatred that they blame others for racism that only exists in their minds.
Right-wing racists and grievance-consumed white males are among my favorite forms of culture war roadkill.
And the core target audience of a white, male, right-wing blog with a vanishingly scant academic veneer.
Kinder/Gentler Frank here,
Hey! Why am I the only "Conspirator" who's being "Kindler/Gentler"???
Oh, because you're Coach Jerry Sandusky?
, my bad
Keep being "Unkindler/Ungentler"
Frank
This isn’t going on.
The conjouring of white grievances is bad and you should feel bad.
You're right, there's nothing wrong with being white,
it's cool, it's OK, it's all-white!, I mean "allright"
Say it Loud!! I'm White, and I'm Proud,
Umm, well not when there's any N-words around,
Frank 45 White POTUS's, only One (half) Black one, and he sucked!
This will be a very phyrric victory if you win because the response will be to simply shut down the state universities. Or at least stop funding them and giving them tax breaks, which is the same thing.
Employers don't value the BA anymore, kids will still get hired, and hence parents won't care, and the stuff that needs to be taught such as engineering can be taught in smaller colleges or institutes.
Maybe they will even salt the earth.
the response will be to simply shut down the state universities.
No, Ed. Nary a sign that's gonna happen.
Employers don’t value the BA anymore
Statistically clearly incorrect.
Would it be so bad if advanced, educated, reasoning, liberal-libertarian mainstream states continued to operate essentially all of our strongest research and teaching institutions while uneducated, superstitious, can't-keep-up states closed a bunch of the conservative-operated schools that should not have been accredited in the first place?
I don´t favor Florida shutting down its state universities. I must confess, however, to a Tennessee Vols fan the idea has some superficial appeal.
I never thought the mental hospitals would actually be shut down, as troubled as they were. But they did get shut down.
Vols? I'm sorry, but hunger in Tennessee certainly went down when El Fulmer was fired.
Can't wait for the SEC to go to a 9 (or 10?) game conference schedule, once Texas/Oklahoma join in 2024 and get their asses kicked. Used to love beating the Vols (what are you volunteering for? oops, maybe not "Woke") every year,
Frank, "Charles Barkley?? Personal Idol"
Here of late, I keep coming back to Power.
Who has the power to set the curriculum at State Universities?
I am willing to learn, but my 1st guess would be the State Legislature.
Yeah, I think some commenters here are mixing up who should have the final say as a matter of law, vs who should be making the day to day calls to get good results.
It’s like choosing your auto mechanic. The whole reason you get one is for their professional expertise, and a wise person doesn’t interfere with them without a good reason. Nevertheless, you need to retain the power to fire or insist that some procedure not be done, even against their professional judgment.
Is Florida doing the equivalent of telling their mechanic how to fix the car? Maybe a little. And maybe the mechanic’s behavior had a something to do with it.
Yeah, like that time the clown at Goodyear wanted to replace my whole intake manifold because my air flow sensor needed a spritz of cleaner. Just because mechanics know more than you about cars doesn't mean you need to ignore what you DO know.
“Just because mechanics know more than you about cars doesn’t mean you need to ignore what you DO know.”
A valid point –
Really, it's just (more) proof that conservatives aren't interested in the free speech of anyone but themselves.
Randal 13 hours ago
"Really, it’s just (more) proof that conservatives aren’t interested in the free speech of anyone but themselves."
Yet it is a reaction to the extensive censoring of speech going on at college campuses
How so?
And remember that at a certain point, you will send the car to the junkyard instead.
I CAN see Florida shutting down all of its state universities and starting over. Or simply cutting off the funds and benefits while starting something new.
I think the last people to be setting curriculum are politicians of any stripe. Look how horrible they have all become in the last 10 years. Students shouldn't be doing it. And parents are now just unelected politicians horrified about everything. F**k, I don't know the answer.
Sorry, but what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If a professor has a first amendment right to teach blacks that whitey is the source of all of their problems, then a conservative professor has a first amendment right to teach that blacks are inherently unintelligent on average and that explains their failures in society.
I don't think it's low intelligence as much as impulse control. OJ wasn't a dumb guy, just couldn't be satisfied with kicking Goldman's ass, or buying his own memorabilia back.
Chicken and egg, but that's a plausible theory.
In any case, my point is that the left isn't actually interested in academic freedom. They just don't want their filthy views censored.
Higher ed will go the way of the Penn Central RR.
I think that actually sums it up. If a Critical Race Theorist has a right to lecture whites about their collective guilt and the need to treat them like dirt, the Klansman in the next lecture hall over has an equal right to teach that slavery should be restored and lynching legalized.
The two of them are just photographic negatives of each other, after all.
Your paranoid delusions notwithstanding, sure. That seems fine. The First Amendment also bars state legislatures from passing laws banning the advocacy of slavery by professors. Wonderful, we agree!
Yours is an extreme example, but that’s not the type of scholarship that the left would be likely to censor, as it's unlikely be propagated in the first place. It’ll be more a lecture on the Bell Curve or on the wisdom of the Equal Protection Clause.
Except, Brett, they gotta HIRE the Klansman.
I am worried about the Affirmative Retribution Admissions decisions and fear that we won't win them.
"If a Critical Race Theorist has a right to lecture whites about their collective guilt and the need to treat them like dirt..."
You show show me proof that one single educator in this nation lectures in that manner and I'll give you a nickel
Don't you think the left being outraged by laws that literally prohibit teaching racial supremacy and collective racial guilt is evidence enough?
The laws do a lot more than that and you know it.
Plus, we’re not so stupid as to fall for that trick. “First they came for the collective racial guilt.” We have principles, you know, such as free speech.
But you expect us to fall for your "We don't want to ban guns, we just want reasonable and common sense restrictions?"
No, not really. But there is more distance between common sense restrictions and banning guns than there is between collective racial guilt and other ideas you might want to suppress. That is, the 1A slope is slipperier than the 2A slope.
Yeah, I'll concede that the 1st amendment slope is slipperier. Not a lot, but somewhat.
But woke, as defined by this law, isn't the "black plastic stock" of speech. It's the "jamming a chainsaw bayonet between somebody's ribs" of speech. It is a directly harmful offense, not merely hypothesized to ease the commission of such.
Your average "common sense gun law", in a 1st amendment context, would be banning unabridged dictionaries because they have naughty words in them; What's banned isn't causing harm, what's banned are items hypothesized to make causing harm easier for those so inclined.
Here the thing being banned IS the harm, itself. Note the language of the act: It's not banning teaching about CRT, it's banning teaching that CRT.
You go real hard on the rhetoric. Pounding on the table, if you will.
As demonstrated by the fact that I linked to the actual law, and extensively quoted it, I presume?
Naw, more this: "woke, as defined by this law, isn’t the “black plastic stock” of speech. It’s the “jamming a chainsaw bayonet between somebody’s ribs” of speech"
This is a very fine line, and I think there's an appropriate amount of fear that this isn't how it'll be enforced in practice, in particular because it'll chill even teaching about CRT.
So if you really believe this, I would expect a lot more effort on the part of the right to mitigate this problem. I see none. Why aren't you proposing solutions to that chilling effect? How do you want to protect professors who are merely teaching about CRT but get accused of "espousing" it?
No, there really isn't.
Yeah, they do a lot more. There are other odious concepts they prohibit government employees from demanding obeisance to, also.
Weird this is about mentioning stuff not obeisance then.
Your defense of this law is getting more and more separated from what is actually going on in schools, and what the law says.
Not hard to see your real goal here is to own the libs. Just as intended.
I'm intrigued by the bit at the beginning of the post suggesting Bishop was wrongly decided. It seems to me Bishop drew the correct line. Without declaring certain topics off limits, as did the Stop Woke Act, the university there was reacting to credible complaints about a professor hijacking a class that had nothing to do with religion in order to proselytize during class time. Allowing the university to restrict that sort of thing seems to me the correct result.
I'll bet most people have experienced the irritation of having to sit through lectures marred by stem-winding tirades about the lecturer's bugaboo du jour, be it some political issue, complaint about pop culture, or whatever. Students fill out surveys complaining about it, those surveys get dumped in a drawer, and the tenured faculty member gets worse and worse as years go by. I think we should applaud administrators who take action to correct this problem by demanding that class time be spent on class material. If the professor feels this cramps his ability to express himself, he should write more op-eds or books no one will publish.
Anyway, I hope the coming smackdown of the Stop Woke Act leaves Bishop intact.
Yes, universities should fire bad professors. Firing bad professors doesn't implicate the First Amendment in the slightest.
It does get into tenure protections, but that seems to me to be an entirely separate question, more akin to labor rights than free-speech rights.
_Bishop_ is difficult to overcome. The assertion that "debates at the heart of many university courses" doesn't quite do it. As others have noted, a professor of linguistics, for example, need not inject his advocacy of socialism into classroom discussion: it is not the "Responsibility of Intellectuals" to dominate and corrupt our youth.
Imagine a public employee other than a member of the caste we call the academy asserting the same "right" to inject his own special flavor into the duties of his job, with the claim that such flavoring is a right and proper part of his job. Would a public paramedic be entitled to discuss reproductive responsibilities with a bleeding woman before treating her? After all, reproductive responsibilities do have an impact on medical treatment -- so we have no reason to prohibit the paramedic from injecting his views as part of the treatment process (yet we do).
I'm not a fan of the Florida legislation, but I'm not yet convinced that it is unconstitutional. Citizens have an absolute right to, through the legislature, control speech by government employees and to control government spending of every sort, including spending on personnel who happen to be educators.
Also its a fairly tale that "debates at the heart of many ccourses"
What Lefty professor tolerates any of his ideas being challenged?
EXACTLY!!!!
And this is why I do not believe that higher education, as it exists today, will continue.
If a State Legislature has the power to dictate what gets taught, how could they not also have the authority to dictate what can't be taught.
Do legislatures not have the power to dictate cirricula?
Yes.
Some states already do.
50 comments, and nobody bothered linking to the actual text of the law. But to be fair, neither did Volokh…
The brief was discussing the bill in suspiciously vague terms. So I decided to see what it actually prohibited.
Essentially the bill asserts that “subjecting any individual, as a condition of employment, membership, certification, licensing, credentialing, or passing an examination, to training, instruction, or any other required activity that espouses, promotes, advances, inculcates, or compels such individual to believe specified concepts constitutes discrimination based on race, color, sex, or national origin”
And then it’s the usual list of concepts: Racial supremacy, collective racial guilt, advocacy of racial discrimination and racial hatred, and so forth. Honestly, I think a plausible reading of the 14th amendment actually REQUIRES states to prohibit their agents from engaging in these activities.
Then the law prohibits the government’s agents from engaging in racial, sexual, ethnic, and so forth discrimination. Again, this sort of discrimination is more plausibly mandated than prohibited by the Constitution as amended. What was it the Court once said? “The Fourteenth Amendment, lest we lose sight of the forest for the trees, does not require what it barely permits.”
Really, I think it’s profitable to look at what these sorts of laws actually say. There’s a reason their opponents don’t quote them…
The brief does quote the text, no? Pretty extensively, I had thought, with many examples of what the text would do, e.g.:
As to the latter, the ERA did not pass — but there very much is a “separate but equal” mandate.
Beyond that, respectfully, you are engaging in selective editing — the entire document has a different meaning than the portion you quoted from. IANAA so I’m not going to try to articulate why, but the two passages do not mean the same thing.
No, I will try: there is a big difference between “advancing a concept” and being “compelled to accept a concept.” And this gets into the question of when a police officer “asks” you to do something….
And what is prohibited is forced compliance for a belief, not discrimination on the basis of characteristic. I may think that trannys are mentally ill, but thinking that is not the same thing as excluding them from my classroom.
Let me put it a different way -- a student has the right to decide to be a tranny or not -- and the college can NEITHER force that decision NOR force the student to adopt beliefs about trannyism.
Imagine the converse of the current evil -- where Black students were REQUIRED to adopt a belief that they were inferior and trannies were REQUIRED to adopt a belief they were mentally ill. The stop woke act would prevent that as well.
You’re just making stuff up again! Oh man what it must be like to be you, just freewheeling whatever thoughts feel the most fun at any given moment, reality be damned.
The Stop Woke act prohibits advancing these ideas. It even prohibits espousing them. Brett quoted it just three posts up!
Another quote from the law:
"(b) Paragraph (a) may not be construed to prohibit discussion of the concepts listed therein as part of a course of training or instruction, provided such training or instruction is given in an objective manner without endorsement of the concepts."
IOW, the law expressly permits teaching about these odious notions, as relevant. Indeed, how could you teach, for instance, the history of slavery, and about the Confederacy, without teaching about notions such as racial supremacy? How could you teach the history of lynching, without teaching about the idea of collective racial guilt?
It's pretty telling here, that a law that prohibits the government's own teachers from teaching that the Confederacy was right, that slavery was a noble institution, and that students should go out and find some random black guy to hang from a tree, causes the left to go berserk.
Sixty years ago this exact language would have been called a "civil rights" law, and celebrated!
"objective manner without endorsement of the concepts"
Brett, you can drive a truck through that language.
And note that is only about formal instruction.
A child can see how vague this is.
Your basic principle here is that you can object to any right wing law, whatsoever, so long as you can imagine somebody using it as a pretext to do something else.
Well, that's what as applied challenges are for, isn't it? This is a facial challenge, no?
Haven't you heard of a chilling effect? You want to force professors into court to make as-applied challenges to their lectures being found criminal? That's very fascist of you.
Have you heard of the chilling effect? It's basically what happens with respect to gun rights when left-wing legislators, in bad faith, lay a felony minefield for technical, non-violent violations of gun laws.
Ok, so, you agree that what the Stop Woke act is doing is wrong?
No, because I think liberalism is an evil, immoral, seditious ideology, outside of the protection of the 1st Amendment, and thus, the law should absolutely proscribe the propagation of those ideas.
I hear some cognitive dissonance in your voice!
I think your students did fairly well under the circumstances, but the circumstances, that the things the law bans actually are pretty nasty, are not favorable.
The biggest problem they face is that there really is a strong argument that the 14th amendment does require at least government agents to refrain from the banned activities, even if they are speech. And plausibly authorizes banning them by private citizens, or else an awful lot of our civil rights legislation is unconstitutional. And if this conflicts with the 1st amendment, well, which was ratified later? The 14th amendment, obviously.
They're also battling uphill against public opinion on the topic, not that that should weigh heavily in a court.
And if they get assigned a Democrat Party judge, it won't weigh heavily, or at all.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/20/politics/arkansas-transgender-treatments-medical-ban-blocked/index.html
These are the types of crap rulings you get from Obongo/Pedo Joe judges.
Off-topic post:
We are sad to learn that a great dramatic soprano, Gabriele Schnaut, has died at the age of 72. She was known primarily for her Wagner. Here's a sample of what she could do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgLxr0HUjh0&t=250s
More...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgLxr0HUjh0&t=27m25s
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/21/politics/supreme-court-lawrence-v-texas-sodomy-laws-oconnor-kennedy/index.html
Here is CNN basically admitting that same-sex marriage is ultimately about sex.
Why is the curriculum approved by the State government not State speech just like a license plate slogan? Professors do not have the right, as State employees, to say anything, while on the job and speaking as am employee, that contradicts the State approved curriculum.
In other “Stop Woke Act” news, the Lake County School Board and state education officials have been sued over pulling “And Tango Makes Three” from school library shelves.
"My goal is to make sure that my students understand the strongest legal arguments for and against the constitutionality of the Act." Thank you, Professor!
Education is currently "bound by a political orthodoxy" [leftism], this act is just trying to make it more neutral.
"or is the latter better? If the government is going to fund education it should try to get the best educational experience for its’ citizens that it can."
They might be wrong, but the Florida legislators probably think that's exactly what they are doing: banning political orthodoxy to improve the educational experience.
He is one of the few who post here who does read the comments, which is saying a lot for his patience.
Would that more of those who post here would engage (not a reference to Jean Luc).
You're confusing what you perceive as better education with a First Amendment right.
Conservatives operate plenty of schools.
Many people don't hear or think about them much, though, because the conservative schools tend to be fourth-tier (or worse) huckleberry factories and hayseed farms with lousy faculties, poor reputations, downscale students, unaccomplished alumni, and little research achievement (beyond Bible studies).
Conservatives turn essentially every campus they get their hands on into these nonsense-teaching, censorship-shackled, dogma-enforcing, superstition-driven mediocrities, often with sketchy accreditation and backwater campuses.
Our nation's strongest research and teaching institutions are operated by and for the liberal-libertarian mainstream. Many people do not wish to address the reasons our strongest schools are found at one side of the political divide and predictably weak schools are found at the other side.
Your schools give out coloring books and have nappy time for its students.
Also, if one of the students is feeling violated by seeing to many old White men in paintings or statues the universities will tear down the statues and burn the paintings.
Lol. You give them far too much credit. What they think they're doing is exploiting a wedge issue for partisan advantage.
Indeed, it's a target rich environment out there.