The Volokh Conspiracy
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Trump's Lawyers Cite, And Disagree with Blackman & Tillman On Whether The President Is Or Is Not An "Officer of the United States"
"To be clear, we mean no disrespect to either of these fine academics but their views on this matter are idiosyncratic."
On May 18, Seth Barrett Tillman and I published a post on Lawfare, titled Why the Manhattan DA's Trump Case Cannot Be Removed to Federal Court. We wrote that "there are good reasons to conclude that the elected president was not an 'officer of the United States,' so the case should stay in Manhattan criminal court." Two weeks later, Alvin Bragg, the District Attorney of New York (DANY) argued that Trump was not an "Officer of the United States," so the case should stay in Manhattan criminal court. We wrote about the filing here.
Yesterday, Trump's attorneys filed the opposition to DANY's motion to remand. Part I of the brief cites several Blackman/Tillman publications:
The President of the United States is an "officer . . . of the United States" under 28 U.S.C. § 1442(a)(1). DANY's argument to the contrary is unconvincing and the Court should reject it. Although DANY disappointingly never gives them any credit, DANY's argument is cribbed, at times nearly word-for-word, from a recent Lawfare blog post by Professors Blackman and Tillman. See Josh Blackman and Seth Barrett Tillman, Why the Manhattan DA's Trump Case Cannot Be Removed to Federal Court, Lawfare, May 18, 2023, available at https://www.lawfareblog.com/why-manhattan-das-trump-case-cannot-be-removed-federal-court. But while this argument—that elected officials, including the President, are not "officers of the United States"—has been advocated by these professors for some time,[FN1] to our knowledge it has never been accepted by any court.
[FN1]: See, e.g., Seth Barrett Tillman, Why Our Next President May Keep His or Her Senate Seat: A Conjecture on the Constitution's Incompatibility Clause ("Our Next President"), 4 Duke Journal of Constitutional Law & Public Policy 107 (2009); Seth Barrett Tillman & Josh Blackman, Offices and Officers of the Constitution, Part I: An Introduction, 61(3) S. TEX. L. REV. 309 (2021); Seth Barrett Tillman and Josh Blackman, Offices and Officers of the Constitution, Part III: The Appointments, Impeachment, Commissions, and Oath or Affirmation Clauses, 62(4) S. TEX. L. REV. 349 (May 2023). To be clear, we mean no disrespect to either of these fine academics but their views on this matter are idiosyncratic, see, e.g., Our Next President, at 5-6 (collecting the contrary views of numerous scholars), and of limited use to this Court.
I am grateful for the citation. Moreover, I think this brief models how attorney can cite those they disagree with.
Going forward, the issue of whether the President is an "Officer of the United States" is squarely teed up. And the parties are squarely at odds on an important issue of federal law that affects the Executive Branch. The Department of Justice should weigh in.
I'll repeat what Seth and I wrote back in May:
Before ruling, the court should consider calling for the views of the Department of Justice. The executive branch has an institutional interest to represent the president's unique station in our constitutional framework.
Stay tuned for more.
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Two ways to spin this.
View #1: Blackman’s been plagiarized by the prosecution and cited by the defense in the Trial of the Millenium. It's a major career milestone.
View #2: Bragg was ashamed to say where he got his ideas, and Trump thought he could discredit Bragg by tying him to Blackman. It’s the Mark of Cain.
I think View #1 is more likely. I’m not anywhere “in the loop” but it seems that Lawfare is a widely read source, and not giving credit was an oversight. Which does not speak well of Bragg’s office, though D.A. offices are political type places, and the assignment of writing the brief was probably not given to the person who would have done the best job.
Who needs an editor when the target audience is subliterate?
You, apparently.
I've made case law several times. Been cited several times. Never crowed about it. God Blackman is an insecure narcissist
With the goal of improving the often-toxic atmosphere here in the Reason Comments section; I quite like how they refer to Blackman and Tillman. (". . . To be clear, we mean no disrespect to either of these fine academics but their views on this matter are idiosyncratic, see, e.g., Our Next President, at . . . ")
Instead of me waxing wroth so often in response to Blackman's drivel here; I will try in the future to use polite euphemisms like this. (Sort of like the Southern "Well, bless your heart.") Josh writes a post about [Fill in the sort-of crazy theory of the day]. My response will be: "Thanks for the post, Josh. That was, um, idiosyncratic."
Funniest part is Blackman saw that sentence as complimentary!
No, it isn’t. When the judge denies removal, it will be for the more substantive reasons identified in the district attorney’s motion.
Well said. That’s the almost guaranteed outcome here.
He can argue the point as much as he likes, but as long as the Constitution itself repeatedly describes the presidency as an office, the president is an officer.
POTUS is "Commander in Chief" of the Armed Forces, even when it's Parkinsonian Joe, or Throws-like-a-girl Barry Hussein, last POTUS who served in any manner was "W" yes, it was dangerous, flying F-102's, no, he didn't get that coveted National Guard Pilot spot because of his high AFOQT scores, but because his daddy was on the Armed Services Committee.
GHWB was a legitimate hero, then went to College, and played in the College World Series...
Long way of saying, DUH, the "Commander in Chief" of all of the "Officers" in the Armed Forces qualifies as an "Officer of the United States"
Frank
The F102 was not exactly a safe aircraft, which is why it was retired early -- which is why the Guard really didn't care if he showed up for drills or not because he wasn't going to be around long enough to make it worthwhile to train him to fly anything else. Not with all the already-trained pilots coming back from active duty in Vietnam.
And the Air Guard wasn't exactly safe duty -- they were the ones who flew up to challenge Soviet aircraft, never knowing their intent.
I'm no fan of GWB, but as to his Air Guard service, it was as honorable as someone who was stationed in Europe, only with a less able aircraft.
GWB was a draft dodger; his daddy jumped the two year queue to keep him from possibly going to Vietnam.
GWB was a deserter, but not for the reason you give; the Vietnam War was over and they were getting rid of the dead wood. Why waste time prosecuting an AWOL loser when they were downsizing anyway?
Two examples: I was in the Navy when we made a port call to Karachi Pakistan, 1975, maybe 1976? A carrier, 5000 sailors. They warned us to not buy hashish, that there would be bend-over checks for everyone coming back to the ship except senior officers, and indeed there were. When I got a taxi, the driver’s very first words, in English, were “You want buy hashish? $20/pound, $40/kilo.” And they still busted 40 sailors for bringing back more than a kilo. Scuttlebutt was they were all given simple discharges “for the good of the navy”, whatever that means, no prosecution.
A shipmate had a party trick of vibrating an eye til it was bloodshot. Decided one day he’d had enough and wanted out. Went down to sick bay several days in a row with his bloodshot eye, ended up with a medical discharge.
They were downsizing; better to let the self-selected leave than waste time and money prosecuting or investigating weird medical self-abuse.
Navy? my Spidy Sense tells me you were a BM. (not "Bowel Movement", Boatswain's Mate") Funny how nobody back then would just claim to be a fag, you'd get one of those bad secret codes on your DD214 and every potential employer would know.
I thought George W. Bush was getting "strange new respect" nowadays.
There are no really "Safe" military aircraft, just some that aren't as dangerous as others.
And he was still flying up until April of 1972, not like he just quit showing up, and had approval to "Drill" at Maxwell AFB AL, so he could also work in Winton Blount's campaign.
Just sayin, Guard Spots in general were hard to get, as the Guard wasn't going to the Nam' (unlike the last 20+ years, when the Guard/Reservists often have more combat time than active duty)
So they tended to go to the "Well Connected" like "W" and "Danang Dick"
Frank
Trump´s filing miserably fails to show how the state court indictment charges conduct for or relating to any act under color of the office of President. Instead, Trump´s counsel attempt to make chicken salad out of chicken shit.
I don’t understand how Trump can point out that the events at issue happened before he was President, while still arguing (in a prosecution brought after he left office) that he's an Officer of the United States justifying removal.
Well, the reimbursements to Michael Cohen, with the attendant falsification of business records, first occurred in 2017 while Trump was president.
Not conduct relating to any act under color of the office of president, though, so removal to federal court should fail.
Thanks.
Odd that Clinton was impeached over conduct unrelated to his office. Though Trump’s two impeachments were certainly related.
Ummm weren't the crimes he's being charged with in New York committed BEFORE he became President?? Making all this just a bunch of nonsense!!
No. The business records falsifications occurred while he was president.
This seems relevant:
ALAN DERSHOWITZ: Why Can’t Trump Find A Decent Lawyer?
Apparently there's a lefty group, "The 65 Project", well funded, whose goal is to get any lawyer who defends Trump disbarred. Nominally, they're only going after lawyers who took him as a client in election related cases, (As though that were OK.) but they've branched out into going after anyone who takes him as a client at all, or even defends him publicly.
Dershowitz's article seems pretty strained, as an argument for why Trump has difficulty finding a good lawyer. The 65 Project filed a complaint against Dershowitz for his involvement in frivolous election-related litigation, which appears to be exclusively 65's target. Dershowitz contends the complaint was "really" motivated by his op-ed in support of Trump. I don't understand how he's making that inference (and frankly don't consider him a very credible source in general nowadays), nor do I understand why this would deter any significant number of Florida criminal lawyers (who are unlikely to have been involved in election litigation).
Trump. doesn't. pay. his. lawyers.
Reaching for the conspiracy methadone again so soon?
Dershowitz makes serious charges. Maybe it’s because he’s taking methadone, or maybe he has some insight into the real-world operation of the legal system.
Given his decades of experience – including his defense of some *really* unpopular clients – it’s just possible that he may have something interesting and relevant to say on this topic.
It doesn’t mean he’s right – he’s an opinionated lawyer, not an oracle. But he’s a highly experienced lawyer who knows about the subject he is writing about.
Also, until the day before yesterday he was regarded as on the "left" - -he defended the movie *Deep Throat,* after all. His transformation into a right-wing bogeyperson was only after he went a bridge too far and defended Trump.
Trump doesn't listen to his lawyers, which seems like a far worse thing. I would fire any client who acted like Trump, independent of the merits of his position. The first thing every lawyer — especially every criminal defense lawyer — says to his client is "Shut up." The absolute last piece of advice Donald Trump will ever take is "Shut up."