The Volokh Conspiracy
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The Anti-Textualist Decision Finding VP Covered by Speech or Debate Clause
"The Court declines to be the first in generations to force a literal reading of the Clause's text."
In February, there was a flurry of debate about whether the Vice President is covered by the Speech or Debate Clause. Recall that the text expressly applies to "Senators and Representatives." As a textualist matter, the Vice President is not a "Senator" or "Representative." Thus, he would not be covered. Alas, many of the precedents interpreting this provision were set in an era where textualism was subordinate to flexible, purposivist analyses. For example, Gravel v. United States (1972), per Justice White, includes this line:
It is true that the Clause itself mentions only 'Senators and Representatives,' but prior cases have plainly not taken a literalistic approach in applying the privilege.
In February,"I would hope[d] that the Scaliafied judiciary takes a literal approach to the Constitution." Judge Boasberg of the District Court for the District of Columbia declined, and found that Vice President Pence received some protections under the Speech or Debate Clause for his role on January 6.
Zoe Tillman obtained a redacted version Judge Boasberg's opinion. The court followed what it calls a "functionalist" analysis that focuses on the specific roles the Vice President plays during the vote-counting process. And, the court found, that these roles falls "beneath the legislative umbrella."
But what about the text of the Constitution--you know, the actual Supreme Law of the Land? It's often said that the text of the Constitution resolves few actual questions. I disagree with that shibboleth, but the textual argument here is really simple. The Vice President, whatever his "hybrid" status, is not a Senator or Representative. Yet, Towards the end of the analysis, Judge Boasberg dispatches the textualist argument in a few sentences:
The Government also contends that, textually, the Vice President is not a "Senator or Representative" within the meaning of the Clause. It concedes that Gravel has extended the Clause beyond its text to reach Members' staff because such staff act as the "agent or assistant of a sitting Senator," but it argues that because the Vice President is not such an agent, the Clause does not cover him. Gravel was not so limited. The Clause has subsequently been read to cover all manner of legislative actors, including those who work for committees or for the chamber as a whole. See, e.g., Eastland, 421 U.S. at 507. The Court declines to be the first in generations to force a literal reading of the Clause's text.
I appreciate Judge Boasberg's candor. He declines to follow the text of the Constitution, but instead follows Supreme Court precedent that disregards that text. Or, to be more precise, he extends Supreme Court precedent that disregards the text of the Constitution.
There was another way. I have written how lower-court judges can be originalist. In a case of first impression, lower court judges should decline to extend non-originalist precedents to new contexts. Here, there was no decision of the Supreme Court squarely holding that the Vice President is covered by the Speech or Debate Clause. And precedents following a "functionalist" approach to the Speech or Debate Clause are flatly inconsistent with constitutional text. Therefore, a judge, faithful to his constitutional oath, could decline to extend those precedents to the case of first impression.
Alas, Judge Boasberg did not take this path. And this decision was not appealed, so I do not think there will be a chance for appellate review. As a practical matter, this precedent will likely be followed by future Vice Presidents, who seek Speech-or-Debate protection in other contexts. Thus, courts will continue extending precedents that cannot possibly be squared with text. The perpetuation of anti-textualist decisions will proliferate.
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"As a practical matter, this precedent will likely be followed by future Vice Presidents, who seek Speech-or-Debate protection in other contexts."
?? Aside from (God forbid) another insurrection, what possible need would a V.P. have for such protection?
Biden might need it to avoid testifying about taking $5m dollar bribe from Burials when he was VP for performing an official act.
You mean Burisma. And your comment is a widely debunked right-wing fiction.
It's up there with Benghazi and the Clinton Death List, where anyone who repeats it immediately loses credibility.
Well we already know that Burisma (which my spell checker keeps changing to burials) was paying one member of the Biden Family a million dollars a year for no apparent reason, that is confirmed public knowledge.
We have emails from Hunter's laptop talking about the Big Guy's take, now we have this from the Washington Examiner:
"Mykola Zlochevsky, the Ukrainian owner of Burisma, was the "foreign national" involved in the alleged "criminal bribery scheme" detailed in an FBI confidential human source form, and Zlochevsky referred to Joe Biden as the “big guy” during a conversation a number of years before the June 2020 date of the bureau form, according to sources familiar with the FBI record who described its contents to the Washington Examiner."
"The sources told the Washington Examiner that the Ukrainian oligarch discussed an alleged bribe of $5 million to Joe Biden and of $5 million to Hunter Biden, according to the paid FBI informant who said he heard this from Zlochevsky. The sources said Zlochevsky said he believed it would be difficult to unravel the alleged bribery scheme for at least 10 years because of the number of bank accounts involved."
And we do know Joe Biden bragged about getting a Ukrainian prosecutor fired who was investigating Burisma.
No he was not investigating Burisma.
Shokin says he was investigating Burisma, and a deputy prosecutor says there was an investigation but it was dormant. Even a dormant investigation can make a corrupt oligarch nervous.
I hope you aren't saying a corrupt oligarch like Zlochevsky isn't above trying to bribe a VP either directly or though his son. We know he was paying Hunter big bucks for something, and it seems completely below the pay grade of a VP to intervene in the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor, unless he had a reason.
"Shokin claimed the former vice president pressured Ukraine’s now ex-president Petro Poroshenko to fire him for investigating the oil and gas extraction company Burisma, where Biden’s son Hunter was on the board of directors until 2019.
Shokin has alleged that he was forced to resign once he started looking into Hunter Biden’s role at Burisma, but a deputy prosecutor working under Shokin has said the Burisma case had been dormant at the time the U.S. was pushing for Shokin's removal."
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/ukraine-police-closes-biden-probe-initiated-ousted-prosecutor-n1247320
Of course Biden's going to the mattresses for Ukraine now, I hope it's not because they have something on him.
Shokin, the guy who got fired for corruption, is your source.
And based on that you eagerly speculate.
Shokin backed by his deputy is the source for the fact he was investigating Burisma.
I wouldn't even rule out he was shaking down Zlochevsky.
You aren't saying that Zlochevsky had no reason to be nervous about an investigation are you? Why was he paying Hunter a million a year?
Bribing Biden seems a more realistic answer than he needed Hunter's business expertise
Shokin's deputy doesn't back that narrative at all.
Shokin took no action to pursue cases against Zlochevsky throughout 2015, said Kasko, who was Shokin’s deputy overseeing international cooperation and helping in asset-recovery investigations. Kasko said he had urged Shokin to pursue the investigations.
(Kasko is the former first deputy prosecutor mentioned in your comment and the link it contained.)
The U.S. stepped up its criticism in September 2015, when its ambassador to Ukraine, during a speech, accused officials working under Shokin of “subverting” the U.K. investigation.
The UK had been investigating Burisma and Zlochevsky, even freezing $23 million in his assets, and was pushing for more cooperation. A UK court had to unfreeze the money after Shokin's office had failed to provide evidence to back the accusations of laundering the UK was pursuing.
Kasko resigned in February 2016, citing corruption and lawlessness in the prosecutor general’s office.
Your entire narrative is bogus, and all of this has been shown over and over again. There was international pressure to fire Shokin.
(Also of note is that the threat to withhold loan guarantees if Shokin wasn't fired occurred at least 3 months before he was fired, even though Biden's boast about getting it done took this form: "We're leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor's not fired, you're not getting the money." - "Well, son of a bitch," Biden continued. "He got fired." And of further note is how the VP has no power to deliver on that threat on his own, since the VP's only powers under the Constitution are to serve as President of the Senate (including tie-breaking votes) and to be the spare.)
Odd that the Trump Administration never bothered to prosecute him!
Barr turned it over to the US attorney. I thought that was how it was supposed to work.
You have to give Barr credit for not feeding it to Trump during the campaign.
Really, you think that was what a DoJ investigation looks like?
Even if there turns out to be anything to that allegation, it is distinguishable from Pence's situation because Pence was acting at the time in question in his capacity as President of the Senate. That's why the speech and debate clause is arguably applicable to Pence's situation.
What are you even talking about? We don't take any of the Constitution that literally. We don't say you have a right to keep arms, and to bear arms, but not to purchase or fire them. We don't say you're secure in your papers and effects but not your communications, or that "life" means the government needs due process to kill you but not to maim you.
There's a difference between textualism and literalism. Do what I mean, not what I say.
"cannot possibly be squared with text"
It certainly can be. Speaking as a dye in the wool textualist [1A only applies to "Congress" by its terms], "Senator" is just shorthand for "Member of Senate". The VP is the presiding officer and can vote [sometimes], so is a Member of the Senate and protected by the speech and debate clause when acting as presiding officer.
Or "senator" is shorthand for "someone validly elected to legislate in the Senate" - which would hence exclude the VP, and is evidently what was meant then and is meant now - unless you're one of those individuals desperate enough to want the VP included.
Also, the text of the Constitition, from Art 1 S3, and from 17A: "The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each state, elected by the people thereof, for six years;"
The VP cannot, therefore, be a senator.
"In a case of first impression, lower court judges should decline to extend non-originalist precedents to new contexts. Here, there was no decision of the Supreme Court squarely holding that..."
This notion of "extending" precedent (vs. "applying" it) kind of gets into a philosophical view of the scope of precedent and its role. After all, no two cases are *exactly* alike, so everything is some kind of adaptation/analogy. Arguably, a lower-court's role is to faithfully apply its best understanding of the higher court's interpretation of the relevant constitutional provision(s).
More examples of the wisdom of the Anti-federalists. Hamilton lied about the Constitution and if the Anti-federalists had not pushed the Bill of Rights, our federal police state would be even worse. God bless George Mason and Patrick Henry!!! Of course, the federal judiciary is failing to protect our rights, but it's been a good long ride!
The anti-federalists were fighting to... keep the Vice President from having to testify in front of a grand jury?
Well lets me re-pose this thought experiment:
The VP is in Maryland for some event, but receives word that she is needed back at the capitol for an urgent tiebreaking vote for an assault weapons ban. A sheriff in Maryland who desperately wants the bill to fail, rounds up 50 deputies and volunteers to stop the VP's motorcade and arrest her, for ordering her driver to speed. They stop the motorcade, and either arrest her, or have a standoff, long enough for her to miss the vote.
Did the Sheriff violate the speech and debate clause by preventing the VP from returning to the Senate when it was in session, or is she not covered by the text when she is actually proceeding to vote on a bill in the Senate:
"They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place."
Somebody cited precedent in a thread here earlier this year saying that "Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace" means any crime. It excludes arrest in a civil action, which was routine in the old days. Traffic violations in Maryland are nominally criminal. You can pay a fee to resolve a ticket as a non-criminal violation. Federal constitutional law is uninterested in fine distinctions in state law between arrestable and non-arrestable crimes.
Whren tells us pretext stops are fine. A more recent case tells us that a retaliatory motive does not make an arrest illegal if the crime is one that might have been enforced by an officer with a pure heart.
Lock her up!
On the other hand, the retreat from Bivens leaves little remedy if the Secret Service detail decides to mow down the obstructing law enforcement officers.
You might want to let her get to the vote after all.
There was a representative in the 1970s, I believe from North Carolina, who successfully got out of a drunk driving charge on grounds he was driving back to Washington. Drunk driving at the time wasn’t treason, it wasn’t a felony, and it wasn’t considered a breach of the peace.
It doesn’t mean any crime. If the Framers had wanted to say any crime, they knew how to say so. The interpretation maxim is “expressio unius exclusio alterius” – Mentioning one thing implies an intention to exclude others.
Well, let's try a different thought experiment.
Well lets me re-pose this thought experiment:
The President is in Maryland for some event, but receives word that she is needed back at the White House to sign an assault weapons ban bill that passed without a veto-proof majority. A sheriff in Maryland who desperately wants the bill to fail, rounds up 50 deputies and volunteers to stop the president's motorcade and arrest her, for ordering her driver to speed. They stop the motorcade, and either arrest her, or have a standoff, long enough for congress to adjourn before she can sign it.
That clearly doesn't violate the speech and debate clause, and yet the rest of the constitution seems more than adequate to protect against it.
Um, how? Nothing in the Constitution says Presidents have any immunity from legal processes. I mean, the Constitution gives members of Congress quite limited immunity, and does so expressly; Why would you think Presidents got greater immunity by some sort of vague implication?
Sure, the DOJ won't prosecute their own boss. That's not constitutional, it's just an internal policy.
I think existing precedents, which cover non-senators including committee staff who aren’t agents of any individual senator, easily cover the Vice-President, who has official roles that sometimes include a right to vote.
Moreover, Professor Blackman’s argument sounds a bit like a complaint that because the “press” in the late 18th century involved a mechanical process of pressing ink on paper, “press” in its literal sense, it’s ani-textualist to regard it as covering offset or laser printing, and certainly not any sort of electronic communications, which don’t involve any kind of “press” at all. Or for that matter it’s anti-textualist to regard the 2nd Amendment as covering anything other than flintlock muskets and other 18th century arms. And then to argue that district court judges should refuse to hold that the First and Second Amendments apply to any kinds of communications or arms not specifically covered by an existing precedent, and anyone who does otherwise is violating his oath, being dishonest, and deserving of impeachment.
It’s not just the disagreement. It’s the shrillness.
The Constitution specifies that Representatives, Senators, the President, and judges shall receive compensation for their services, but never mentions the VP. Does that mean they can not compensate her? Seems weird.
At most it means they don't have to.
The VP position was a bit of an afterthought; Hardly surprising, then, if they neglected to update all relevant clauses after adding it.
Imagine an attorney who requires a translator to communicate with his client. Could a court compel the translator to relate the contents of a conversation he translated? After all, he's not the attorney, he's not the client, so the attorney-client privilege doesn't apply to him. right? Of course, such an interpretation would be absurd. Privileges, including the legislative privilege provided by the Speech and Debate Clause, are meant to be functional and liberally construed, not read in a hyper-literal autistic fashion.
Likewise, legislative privilege would be meaningless if, for example, any legislative aide in the room during secret committee negotiations could be compelled to repeat what he heard. Of course, much of this is rooted in basic agency principles.
Beyond that, I'll note that some argue that when the Vice President acts in his capacity as the President of the Senate, he is in fact a de facto Senator. The Supreme Court might have had a chance to shed some insight on this issue in the case of Coleman v. Miller (1939). That case involved the Kansas legislature's vote to ratify the proposed Child Labor Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. In the state senate, the vote was 20-20, and the lieutenant governor cast his tie-breaking vote in favor of ratification. The state house then also voted to ratify the Amendment. The vote was challenged on several grounds, including the claim that, since the Constitution expressly reserved ratification to "the state Legislatures", the lieutenant governor, not being a member of the legislature, had no authority to cast his purported vote. Chief Justice Hughes, writing for the Court, wrote that justices were equally divided on the issue of whether that was a justiciable issue or a political question, so the Court would offer no opinion on the matter.
Is there an urgent reason for departing from the plain text? I doubt it.
While Congresscritters in the House and Senate could, without this clause, face prosecution or suits for defamation based on what they say in debate, thus interfering with each house’s right of self-government (and each house should certainly act to punish members who abuse their speaking privileges), I don’t see the VP having occasion to say even arguably defamatory or seditious things while presiding, unless calling someone out of order is defamatory or seditious, which I doubt.
So the VP wouldn’t need this protection in most cases. If I’m wrong – too bad, so sad, but exceptions should be narrowly construed, and this clause is an exemption of Congresscritters from certain legal remedies to which Joe Doakes would be vulnerable. The exception should be narrow enough to avoid unnecessarily rubbing Doakes’ face in Congress’ special status.
Lower courts aren't just to look at whether a prior opinion is squarely on point in its holding. That's not how courts work. They are to apply the reasoning of prior decisions to guide the interpretive framework on a current decision.
I understand the desire to rely solely on the literal words in their most constraining interpretation, but we must never forget that it is a constitution that Judges are expounding and to fail to recognize the flexibility that entails is to the turn the whole document into a splendid bauble.