The Volokh Conspiracy
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Another Judicial Ethics Story About Justice Thomas Falls Apart
Mark Paoletta explains the details of Harlan Crow's purchase of the Thomas childhood home.
The never-ending reporting on Supreme Court ethics has backfired. The goal was to demonstrate that certain Supreme Court Justices are behaving unethically. But in turn, each of these stories unraveled. The Justices either followed the rules, or made a good-faith error that was promptly corrected. If the entire media apparatus is unable to unearth actual problems, then we should take comfort: the Justices take their ethical obligations quite seriously.
The latest story to fall apart concerns Justice Thomas's childhood home in Georgia, which was purchased by Harlan Crow. Mark Paoletta, who has many close ties to the Thomases, explains the details of that land transaction:
In 2014, Crow visited Thomas's boyhood home, where the justice's mother, Leola Williams, was living. The neighborhood was unsafe, with crack houses nearby, and drug dealers and derelicts roaming the street. Crow asked Thomas what would happen to this home when his mother passed, and Justice Thomas replied that he would bulldoze it. Crow thought this was a horrible idea — this was the home where Thomas came to live with his grandparents in 1955, when he was seven. His life was forever changed by his being raised by his grandparents, and Crow did not want this home lost to history.
When Crow first expressed interest in buying the home, he did not know that Justice Thomas had an ownership interest in it — he thought it was just his mother's home. Crow's team did their due diligence and came up with a market price of $133,000 for the home and two vacant lots on the same street. The vacant lots were previously owned by Thomas's grandfather and later inherited by Thomas, his mother, and the estate of his deceased brother. (This sale did not include the farmhouse in Liberty County, Ga., in which Justice Thomas still has a one-third interest.)
As part of the contract, Crow granted a lifetime-occupancy agreement to Thomas' mother, then 85, just as he had done with the Varns several years earlier. This was no gift, as the lifetime-occupancy agreement was part of the market-price calculation. This arrangement allowed Crow to begin the work to preserve the property immediately while allowing Mrs. Williams, now 94, to continue to live there. Crow also bought several other homes and lots on this street, and this small area has since been transformed into a beautiful, vibrant, and safe street.
In the years preceding this transaction, Justice Thomas and his wife put significant sums of money into making improvements to his mother's house. Given these costs, their one-third share of its sale price amounted to a capital loss on the property. Because of that, Justice Thomas did not believe that the sale of his mother's home was a reportable transaction. He never considered this inherited home as an "investment or trust," which is the language that appears on the financial-disclosure form where a filer must report any transaction over $1,000. Now that this has been brought to his attention, Justice Thomas is expected to amend his previous financial-disclosure form to reflect this sale. Amendments are not uncommon.
That's it. Thomas made a good-faith error, and will file an amendment. Other Justices have taken similar steps.
Over the years, several justices have amended their filings. For example, in 2021, Justice Sotomayor amended her 2016 financial-disclosure form to add six trips that had been paid for by a third party. She had forgotten about them, and when she realized the omission, she amended her forms. Nobody questioned her integrity. Justice Jackson hadn't disclosed her husband's medical-malpractice-consulting fees for years, nor the income she received from teaching. She noted this oversight on the disclosure form she filled out for her Supreme Court nomination. Again, nobody questioned her integrity. Why is Justice Thomas being held to a different standard?
Paoletta explains the goal of these attacks:
The latest attacks on Justice Thomas have nothing to do with ethics. Instead, the attacks are about undermining the Supreme Court now that it no longer acts as a super-legislature for implementing the Left's progressive policies. Other justices have also suffered baseless attacks on their ethics and character. The Left is weaponizing financial disclosures to smear conservative justices. It's important for defenders of the Court to call this out for what it is. Meanwhile, Justice Thomas and his colleagues can hopefully continue to focus on their work: issuing legal opinions that are faithful to the Constitution.
I would also highlight several tweets from Paoletta. For example, RBG donated a signed copy of her VMI decision to an National Organization of Women auction:
Here's pro-abortion @NationalNOW 1998 auction list, item 49, RBG autographed copy of her VMI opinion. As @LindseyGrahamSC said, imagine if Justice Alito donated signed Dobbs opinion to @SBAprolife?? But crickets from the Left on RBG's conduct. @SenJudiciaryGOP pic.twitter.com/OhFmacJV9c
— Mark Paoletta (@MarkPaoletta) May 2, 2023
And RBG accepted an award from the Woman's National Democratic Club:
1/ Here's Justice Ginsburg accepting award in 2010 from the partisan Woman's National Democratic Club. I am unaware of any reporting of this at time. Who was the emcee at this partisan event?? None other than @NPR @NinaTotenberg. Nothing to see here . . . pic.twitter.com/6j8D086PuU
— Mark Paoletta (@MarkPaoletta) May 2, 2023
Again, I hope reporters push the pause button on these breathless reports.
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"The never-ending reporting on Supreme Court ethics has backfired."
Just pure, unadulterated copium. Nice try though!
"For example, RBG donated a signed copy of her VMI decision to an National Organization of Women auction"
Is this supposed to be somehow analogous to what Thomas did? If so, I'm not seeing the connection. In fact, a "donation" - by its very definition - suggests that she didn't profit from it. But if that was for some reason unethical, that's all the more reason the Supreme Court should be subjected to ethical scrutiny and bound to a code of ethics.
All this flailing about only makes your side look more guilty.
"Just pure, unadulterated copium. Nice try though!"
If that's the best argument you've got, Thomas is in the clear for sure!
I mean, he's in the clear no matter what. He has a lifetime appointment! But that doesn't mean that this scandal can't be effective in reducing the prestige and legitimacy of the court in the eyes of the public.
I guess, although it would reduce his prestige more if you guys could point to anything wrong that he did.
How much would a vacation "gift" accepted by a Supreme Court justice need to be worth before it created a problem, in your judgment?
Let me guess, somewhere between the amount Sotomayor took and the amount Thomas took, is that right?
If Justice Sotomayor accepted a substantial "gift" from a political supporter, especially without disclosing it, shame on her.
When Prof. Blackman decided to pointing toward Justice Ginsburg's acceptance of an award, did he forget the record with respect to justices appearing at Federalist Society (and perhaps Heritage, or the like) fundraisers?
https://fixthecourt.com/2022/06/justice-sotomayor-amends-financial-disclosure-include-six-free-trips-previously-omitted/
Justice Keegan teaches at Harvard and Harvard has a pending case before the court.
I know this counts for little within the confines of the Volokh Conspiracy, but outside your bubble, palling around with a billionaire with swastikas and other Nazi memorabilia all over his house is seen as wrong by most people.
"palling around with a billionaire with swastikas and other Nazi memorabilia all over his house is seen as wrong by most people."
Most people believe a lot of weird things, so what?
Palling around with pedophiles on their own private island is seen as wrong by most people.
Indeed it is. All of them should be thrown out of power too.
Remember when it was elite coastal liberals who were out of touch?
Also, the same people who say this also willingly side with actual Nazi Soros and espouse an ideology almost indistinguishable from the Nazi platform with just a few cntl-f swaps for a modern audience.
Or to put it another way, the people who scream about Soros buying everybody and call him a Nazi are suddenly ok with a billonaire who loves Nazi stuff and buys a Supreme Court Justice.
This is the sort of overreach that just discredits the arguments against Thomas. Nobody thinks Crow is a Nazi, so all of these things are "Look! A squirrel!"
"Nobody thinks Crow is a Nazi"
Nonsense, plenty of people do. He certainly has the profile of at least a fellow traveler. You may not think he's a genuine Nazi, and you may well be right. But then what's with the signed copy of Mein Kampf, and the Hitler painting, and the swastika napkins? At some point, the line between "Nazi-adjacent" and "actual Nazi" blurs into meaninglessness.
Personally, if I went to someone's house and saw all that stuff, I would simply not associate with that person anymore (regardless of whether they've Sieg Heiled or declared the 14 words, or whatever your personal definition of being a "real Nazi" requires). I suspect that the vast majority of people would do the same.
"Personally, if I went to someone’s house and saw all that stuff, I would simply not associate with that person anymore..."
You'd stop associating with someone who you know to otherwise be a decent person because he had some Nazi memorabilia? Maybe that says more about you than about anybody else.
"who you know to otherwise be a decent person "
Assuming facts not in evidence.
No amount of shrugging and head-shaking will stop it from being a massive red flag. With a Sanskrit symbol in the middle.
Blackman seems to regard Thomas' misstep as a little procedural error. Technically, that is true. But there are substantive errors so colossal that you're an idiot if you dismiss them. Thomas has excepted millions of dollars from a major Republican influencer. His wife has been paid over $600,000 by said influencer. He owns Thomas' former house where his mother still lives. This guy owns Thomas and his entire fucking family. But, hey, nothing to see here
No, there is nothing to see here. Other than what you progs in your fevered imaginations want to believe.
Nothing happened. No one is "owned". Take the tinfoil hat off.
Nancy Pelosi receives Communion at Vatican
https://nypost.com/2022/06/29/nancy-pelosi-receives-communion-at-vatican-despite-abortion-stance/
Whaddya think of that, eh?
And communion is, like, priceless because it gets you into fairyland. Did she ever report it? Hell naw!
What on earth does that have to do with the conversation in any way?
You don't see the problem with a judge who is supposed to be un-biased donating to a cause that has an extremely strong interest in an issue that she was deciding?
Decorum is good and all, but I’m not into purely symbolic gestures of objectivity that beggar belief.
No judgments were changed, no positions revealed.
BREAKING ???? New whistleblower alleges that then-VP Joe Biden engaged in a “bribery scheme with a foreign national” says House Oversight chairman James Comer. Subpoena just went to FBI director Chris Wray for an FBI FD-1023 form, allegedly detailing an “arrangement involving an… Show more
A great exercise in the difference between an actual thing that provably happened, and an 'allegedly' Congressional smear.
Sarcastr0 44 mins ago
Flag Comment Mute User
"A great exercise in the difference between an actual thing that provably happened, and an ‘allegedly’ Congressional smear."
Since the biden family has a well known history of such behavior, most intellectually honest individual would tend to believe the validity of the allegation.
"Since the biden family has a well known history of such behavior"
Since you have such a well-known history of being full of shit, and that your 'source' for this news is James Comer - who cares about nepotism only if the name ends in "Biden" whilst ignoring the entire Trump family, most intellectually honest individuals would rightfully say you're a gullible, lying assclown.
You would have more credibility if you addressed the merits instead of throwing unwarranted insults.
Multiple news organizations are reporting the whistleblowers claims.
So Harlan Crow was a close friend to Justice Thomas, and his team did their "due diligence" on the property, and yet somehow none of them knew that Justice Thomas had an ownership stake in it? And whatever his ownership stake was, he surely realized more than $1000 when the property was sold, but he didn't disclose it because he didn't consider it an investment or trust? As a defense, this really seems thin.
I wouldn't consider an inherited property from my grandfather an investment or trust, cause it's not.
Words mean things and that's not what those words mean, although to be sure there maybe a document somewhere that explains in more detail what investment or trust means in the context of that form, but we haven't seen that detail yet.
Well, either Justice Thomas had inherited the property and was letting his mother live there, in which case there was no way Crow didn't know the property belonged to Justice Thomas. Or the property still belonged to Thomas' mother, in which case it wasn't an inherited property. Either way, Mr. Paoletta's defense doesn't really hold water.
As the article notes, the house was originally Thomas’s grandparents’. I would imagine he and his mother inherited their respective interests when they died.
Crow and his team apparently didn't imagine that, because they seem to be claiming they had no idea Justice Thomas had any ownership interest at all, even though they supposedly did some kind of due diligence.
I have no idea if Justice Thomas violated ethical or disclosure rules, but this story by Paoletta and trumpeted by Prof. Blackman doesn't make sense.
Way to determinedly misread a text. Of course nothing in the article asserts that Crow didn’t know that Thomas owned 1/3 of the properties at the time that a fair market price for them was determined. Or that he did. But when it comes to lying you just can’t help yourself, can you, Lefty?
One, the mother's house sale was basically a footnote to the luxury vacation story. Got any defense of that?
Two, I'm not at all sure you've proven anything except that Crow, or his minions, and Thomas know the rules for making things appear legal. You state Crow didn't know Thomas had a financial interest. Assuming Crow is telling the truth, did he not know it was Thomas' boyhood home and his mother's residence when he bought it, ostensibly for use as a Thomas museum. Are we saying Crow bought three random lots in Savannah and just by coincidence it turned out Thomas mother lives there?
Three. Ginsburg donated a piece of memorabilia to a non-profit and accepted an award from another. Thomas accepted perks worth hundreds of thousands from a political activist donor. Yup, you got us. Allee samee. Bothsides.
It’s all a non-story since Crow has never been a party to any case before the Court.
You already know this.
I do know that. I also know that in a case in which Crow had an interest, although he wasn’t a party, Thomas voted in Crow’s favor.
But this isn’t simple bribery, “You vote for my zoning change and I’ll give you this thousand dollars.” This is about ensuring fealty to a class and an ideology. Thomas is a good minion. He knows what he’s expected to do. He doesn’t have to have it spelled out.
You don't have any idea how Thomas voted in the case you're discussing, but moreover, it's a meaningless comment. The court denied cert; voting in Crow's favor means voting to deny cert. Guess what? If Thomas recused himself, that has exactly the same effect on the case as him voting to deny cert.
You “know” all sorts of nonsense, but if you want anyone to take what you say seriously enough to even dismiss it you’ll have to do better than that.
Whether Crow had court business doesn't really matter. I mean, it would be even worse if he did, but the (disputed) fact that he didn't doesn't make everything fine.
Crow is a wealthy patron and a conservative activist who is funding the Thomas family's lavish lifestyle and promoting conservative politics at the same time.
So even when Crow isn't actually a litigant, you can imagine Thomas not being too keen to piss him off by straying from the party line and possibly missing out on the next conservative party cruise or having his mom evicted.
Why would he assume Thomas has an ownership stake in his (still living) mother's home? A reasonable person would assume she owns it herself.
If, as the OP asserts, Crow did his due diligence, he knew or should have known.
That's not what the OP says.
"When Crow first expressed interest in buying the home, he did not know that Justice Thomas had an ownership interest in it — he thought it was just his mother's home. Crow's team did their due diligence and came up with a market price of $133,000 for the home and two vacant lots on the same street."
Crow didn't know Thomas had a stake in the property when he first started moving to purchase it. The "due diligence" was in reference to determining the value of the properties, less the lifetime occupancy clause. Nothing indicates he would have (or could have) known Thomas had a stake prior to making the offer to purchase.
Of course that is all a far cry from your initial comment, which seems to assume it should have gone without saying that Thomas would own his mother's home.
Crow didn’t know Thomas had a stake in the property when he first started moving to purchase it.
And you know this how?
Nothing indicates he would have (or could have) known Thomas had a stake prior to making the offer to purchase.
I can't say I'm familiar with the practice in that part of the country, but if the property was indeed bequeathed to three parties, of which Thomas was one, I would think a competent title search would have revealed it.
Of course that is all a far cry from your initial comment, which seems to assume it should have gone without saying that Thomas would own his mother’s home.
Which initial comment is that?
"And you know this how?"
I assume because that's what the OP says.
What the OP doesn't say is that he didn't thereafter learn of the interest. That I'll give you.
I assume because that’s what the OP says.
It's the claim by a Thomas-friendly source which the OP unskeptically repeats. Take it on faith if you wish, but as evidence goes, it's scanty basis for confidence, much less certainty.
If the current Supreme Court justices are unwilling or unable to arrange suitable ethical rules for the Court, I expect better Americans to do it for them.
It appears those better Americans will include Judge Michael Lutting. But not Mark Paoletta.
Carry on, clingers. As has become customary in modern America, so far as better Americans permit.
Jerry, do you ever get tired of getting boo-fooed every day?? Because that's what your "Carry on Klingers" is to everyone else, C'mon (man!) a little variety, like "Fuck You Klingers" or "Killer Klingers from Outer Space" "Klinger Klinger, who's got the Klinger" and don't you have any other interests than young men's behinds? (I know, a "Behind is a terrible thing to waste"!) My posts include literary references, anatomic topics, baseball, medical, and all you ever do is bust on Josh Blackman and tell all the Klingers to Carry on,
I'm beginning to suspect you're not a real "Reverend"
Frank
I've told him this before, but he should really ask his social worker about getting him a thesaurus or something.
The number of people on this blog who believe you are a doctor is exactly zero. The number of people on this blog who believe you are a foul-mouthed, barely literate, bigoted middle-schooler is everyone.
The life time occupancy provision is not very common in residential home sales, though not completely uncommon. Computing the value of the remainder interest and/or the lifetime interest is a fairly simple formula.
Seems a lot of claims about ethic violations where none exist
From people who have some questionable ethics shortcomings.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/spencerbrown/2023/05/02/if-senate-democrats-are-worried-about-ethics-they-should-look-in-the-mirror-n2622723
Ah whataboutism, the last refuge of the scoundrel.
If anyone has concerns about the ethical standards of Senators, they will have an opportunity to find a replacement soon enough. We have higher standards for Justices because they aren't held accountable at the polls.
YOU don’t have any standards except double ones.
Let me know when Judge Thomas leaves a young woman to Asphyxiate (NOT drowned, there's a difference) in an upside down Oldsmobile, like a certain Dead Kennedy whose first name rhymes with Schmed-werd,
Yeah, that's "What-a-bout-ism"(rhymes with "Jism") and I'll "What-a-bout" like a Mo-Fo" Yeah, don't tell me about Donald Trump Juniors crimes when you've got a Crack-Smoking-Lying-on-Federal-Firearm-Form4473(Felony BTW)-Non Child-Support-Paying-Dead-Brother-Wife-Fucking son in the Oval Orifice daily....
and don't even get me started on "Danang Dick"
Frank
Yeah, Ted Kennedy, Hunter Biden, and Clarence Thomas ALL need to be out of government.
Calling "whataboutism" is the real last refuge of scoundrels.
Any concern about ethics should be across the board to anyone entrusted with power over their fellow citizens.
You have pointed out a legit problem with Congressional ethics rules.
One irrelevant to the issue being discussed here.
That is how whattaboutism works, and you should stay on topic. If you care about your own sides ethics. Which you don't seem to.
What is being discussed here is ethics. You haven't been appointed to set the rules.
Justice Thomas is in the title, yet he's the only one whose ethics you won't discuss.
…and yet another hall monitor.
If it matters ro you, I see no ethical violation in the case of this matter that should be of concern to anyone with at least a brain stem.
People pointing out your naked partisan deflecting are not hall monitors. You can post all the bullshit you want, but it will be bullshit.
The partisanship is solely on the left here. It's they who are sure Thomas did something wrong when even a basic understanding should tell them it's a nothingburger.
You're really fond of projection, aren't you?
'I know U are but what am I' noted and ignored.
dont get whiplash with your double standard
On what basis are you claiming this is a nothing burger? Partisanship? Certainly not on the Paoletta article, which, to be charitable to it, stretches credulity to the breaking point.
No, it's about double standards. Calling it "whataboutism" is a chickenshit cop out.
It would be a standard if anyone were saying Pelosi was ethical. Or indeed talking about Pelosi at all, other than Bumble's weak and obvious attempt.
Wow. That's quite a killshot.
"When Crow first expressed interest in buying the home, he did not know that Justice Thomas had an ownership interest in it" Doh!
"the lifetime-occupancy agreement was part of the market-price calculation" Whoops.
"then 85" Wow that's quite a valuable life estate there!
"its sale price amounted to a capital loss on the property." LOL!
"the attacks are about undermining the Supreme Court now that it no longer acts as a super-legislature for implementing the Left's progressive policies."
Obviously 100% correct. But also, "Justice Thomas replied that he would bulldoze it." I think they are mad the house isn't getting bulldozed.
There's low, and there's kissing Blackman's ass.
Have some dignity, ML!
Not an argument, Sarcastro.
"he did not know that Justice Thomas had an ownership interest in it” But he knew Thomas' mother was living there, right?
"the lifetime-occupancy agreement was part of the market-price calculation”
First, it's a mere assertion and pretty weak given we don't see the calculation.
Second, nothing in the disclosure rules about whether the purchase is market price.
Third, he emphasized what a crime-ridden, undesirable neighborhood this was and highlighted how he cleaned up the neighborhood which, one could interpret, as a pretty nice favor for someone to do for you (invest in your mother's neighborhood, including purchasing her house, to make it safe for her and, as a bonus, you'll be getting a museum that honors you). Yeah, nothing to see here at all.
"“then 85” Yeah, she got ten years in, according to Paoletta, a beautifully transformed neighborhood (and improved house). Not exonerating.
"its sale price amounted to a capital loss on the property.” Pure assertion by someone with lots of connections to Thomas. This is how you know you're partisan. Imagine Hunter Biden said that, would you just reflexively believe it?
"Obviously 100% correct." LOL.
You're super upset at the grossness of Hunter Biden, but that, presumably, is not entirely a right wing obsession purely about politics, but an objective, neutral concern about ethics and government officials?
Please. The enthusiasm over Thomas being caught out is partisan. The concern about Supreme Court ethics is a thing. Remember, your side are the ones worried about a NY politician getting political contributions from Soros, which political contributions were fully disclosed. But now suddenly getting money from a politically active billionaire isn't a problem? Even when not disclosed?
But below you've admitted you're kissing ass. Why would I expect better of you.
The concern about Bragg getting contributions from Soros isn’t about ethics or illegality, it’s because Soros radical decarceration program is dangerous and it’s already worn out it’s welcome in SF, where Chesa Boudin was recalled, Gascon in LA dodged a recall, Kim Foxx who’s out of office now in Chicago after gaining notoriety in the Jesse Smollett whitewash.
No, dude.
Bragg has nothing to do with anything other than Soros as right wing boogeyman.
So you just admit to the massive double standard you have. Cool.
It's not Blackman, it's this Mark guy.
So you admit to puckering up and slavering on over this weak defense? At least you don't pretend to have dignity.
Was RBG paid $133K for her signed decision?
Did she sell her NPR trophy for $133K?
No? Oh, so that’s not really comparable after all. Well, that explains the lack of media coverage.
> significant sums of money into making improvements
Yes, that's what people normally do. Invest lots of money into a building that they plan to bulldoze, then claim a $133K as a loss. Nothing to see here, move a long!
FSE - there is no taxable loss on demolition of the building in this situation. The tax basis in the land would the $133k plus demolition costs. Standard capitalization rules.
The $133k is reasonably close to FMV based on information available to the public. Thomas only owned 1/3 interest, so he received approx $44k (before closing costs).
Harlon Crow also has not had cases before the court.
Did RBG receive the $133k for the autographed copy of the opinion. No - but thats not the issue with the autographed copy, NOW has cases before the court.
You chose to critisize Thomas, while absolving RBG nor do raise conflict of interest issues when Kagan ruled on obamacare. Dont get whiplash from your Double standard.
Are you seriously arguing that if an organization recognizes a Justice with an award, then the Justice should recuse themselves?
So if NOW recognizes the efforts of Thomas, Roberts, Kavanaugh, Gorsuch and Alito, then only the four remaining women should rule on NOW cases?
I would expect that Thomas, et al, would simply decline the award.
Not if money were involved.
Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland 27 seconds ago
Flag Comment Mute User
"Not if money were involved."
Do you have knowledge that it ever occurred
A Supreme Court justice, or the justice's spouse, taking money from people intensely interested in the Court's work?
A justice should not accept an award from a political organization, or any organization that might have cases before the court. That of course has nothing to do with Thomas's wrongdoing, but it is nevertheless true.
Has Justice Thomas spoken at, or served as a recruiter for, Federalist Society or Heritage Foundation fundraisers?
has Jerry Sandusky?? Buehler? Buehler??
Maybe its not something you would do for your mother, but the investment in the property appears to have been to keep it livable and comfortable for his mother, not to make a profit for himself.
So you're saying his mother's comfort was of value to Thomas. Hmm... I wonder how that might play into Crow's acquisition, the failure to report, and the appearance of impropriety.
The desperation is almost as palpable as the stupidity from your post.
That's some high quality argumentation. I'm undone by your superior intellect.
Alternative headline:
"Josh once again cites a friendly source, likely lying to an uncritical outlet, and then overconstrues the significance of the piece."
Just the other day, David was musing sourly about a vast DNC-media-coordinated conspiracy seeking to undermine the Supreme Court's legitimacy. He said this was only obvious, given the pattern of reporting, and what he knows about these cross-media blitzes (no doubt from participating in them himself). What, then, should we make of this parade of counter-stories, hm?
Bernstein was extremely unhinged in that post. He was just making things up and people we're calling him on it. Reminds me of CRT. I knew it was the closest thing to the truth academia has ever gotten because the bigots exploded like a wasp nest in a supernova. Comes now some very factual and damning news on Thomas. Bernie and Blackie and the rest of the Federalists are just apoplectic and circling the wagons. Let's me know the main nerve has been hit.
Name one thing he made up. Just one. But have some proof it was made up.
Before you type, wipe the spittle from your screen.
He said it was obvious that these stories about the Justices are a coordinated plot to garner support for a judicial reform bill.
He provided no evidence, just that he knew how these things work.
This was *after* he clarified he didn't think it was a coordinated media conspiracy, just an activist coordinated hit run via the uncritical media. Still with no evidence.
Yeah! What Sarcastro said!
You and Sarcastro are wrong. That's exactly what's happening, and you're both blind if you can't see that.
Apparently, the new definition of "lying" is saying anything without evidence to back it up. Is that really the standard? Because you both say things here all of the time without evidence.
That's the professor's OPINION. He's allowed to have one, and it's more valid than anything you both are saying.
Your question didn't ask about what he lied about. You asked "name one thing he made up." They cited something he claimed happened with no evidence to back it up. That's making it up. You don't think it's making it up, because you also believe it happened despite the lack of evidence.
likely lying to an uncritical outlet
"Likely". In other words, you WISH it to be so.
And Sarcastro was complaining about righties being partisan. This is a scream.
I Callahan drags himself and his knuckles from out the cave and exclaims, 'I Callahan'
As I look upon this woundrous creature I reply, 'Me hobie'
Is that really all you have, "hobie"? Because you argue like a 14 year old girl.
Conservatives have a known habit of brazenly lying to serve their purposes. Liberals at least try to spin stories that cast the truth in a flattering way.
Got some examples?
The leftists salivating over this nothingburger are such a joke. Have their keen interests and indignation been applied to mysteries like how Harry Reid became wealthy while spending a lifetime in politics? Nancy Pelosi? Clinton raking in a quarter billion from foreign countries in the run up to her prospective coronation? Any number of other politicians mysteriously gaining wealth? Of course not.
Got a problem with Reid, Pelosi, or Clinton? Vote them out.
Too bad Thomas can't likewise be held accountable.
Sure he can. Just round up the votes to impeach him. Until then quit the tedious whining about nothing.
That’s one way. The other is legislative reform of the SCOTUS to prevent future corruption. Given their popularity, this might happen sooner than you think.
The current justices seem disinclined (as a group; some individuals might differ) to address the problem.
Better Americans may do it for them.
Your "better Americans" are pedophiles. No thanks.
"That’s one way. The other is legislative reform of the SCOTUS to prevent future corruption. Given their popularity, this might happen sooner than you think."
Given that removing the justice's lifetime tenure would require a constitutional amendment, what legislative reform do you imagine would prevent future corruption without involving impeachment?
Defunding clerks of justices who can't act ethically? Selecting clerks for the relevant justices? Enlarging the Court to reduce the influence of unethical justices?
Plenty of creative space available in this context.
Space? yeah, between your ears,
I'm beginning to think although you're not a "Reverend" you may actually be Jerry Sandusky, you've certainly got the CTE symptoms,
Frank
Yes, Supreme Court Justices have lifetime appointments. But they are only guaranteed to hear cases involving original jurisdiction, which amount to very few cases.
The vast majority of SCOTUS cases involve final appeals, and Congress has full control over who hears those cases. They could form a new Court of Final Appeals that would take those duties from the SCOTUS, and even limit how long anyone could serve on that court, condition membership on ethical standards compliance, etc.
Hairy Reid got the "Celestial Recall" in 2021 IIRC (I always RC)
Frank
Absolutely the sign of someone who cares about policing his own side - always pointing left.
I'm satisfied with the curious case of Clarence Thomas' laughably tiny $40,000 in real estate proceeds which resulted in a capital loss.
Got any other cases I should be concerned about with people on the right? More than happy to police. Mitch McConnel marrying into the Chinese Communist Party seems like a big one . . .
Yeah, you don't care. because libs.
Well, not telling us anything about your character we don't already know.
Fuck! (Man!, see I said "Man!" cause I'm "Cool" like Senescent Joe)
Non-Senescent-but-Addicted Hunter blows through (see what I did there?) $40,000 of Blow in a week, and you're talking bout some piddly ass bullshit, done' mean' nuttin' anyway, "Because Clarence Thomas" Yeah, "Because" Clarence Thomas doesn't follow your sides bullshit House Nigger "meme" like Ka-grungi Jackson Browne, wouldn't know a gash from a cock if you slapped her in the face with one,
Frank "No Offense, umm, well maybe a little Offense"
No, I just said I do care. Do you even read what you are replying to?
I’m satisfied with the curious case of Clarence Thomas’ laughably tiny $40,000 in real estate proceeds which resulted in a capital loss.
You don't care.
As I explained, I'm satisfied with it because there's now been fairly comprehensive reporting on the factual circumstances along with comparisons to the norm and other justices.
Unless maybe you have evidence that the paltry $40,000 sum was not in line with market values?
Your careful choice of scope, and eliding of the obvious credibility issues in the post from this 'Thomas friend' betrays you.
As I said below, Thomas is going to get away with this. And he may not be the worst one on the Court, just the one who got caught. But there's a broader issue here of reporting and transparency you are making collateral damage in your desire to defend your guy.
What "fairly comprehensive reporting on the factual circumstances" are you referring to? Surely not the Paoletta article. Besides the fact that the article makes assertions that strain credulity, we don't even know if he did any actual reporting, or any research at all. We do know he "has many close ties to the Thomases," so I suppose that vouches for the objectiveness of his article.
Sarcastr0 1 hour ago
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Absolutely the sign of someone who cares about policing his own side – always pointing left.
Its a target rich environment - Dont get whiplash with your double standard
We can play this stupid game all day. You're upset about Hunter, but what about former federal government official Jared Kushner getting a sweetheart deal from MBS after doing MBS a favor in his capacity as a government official?
If you had any integrity, you would want the ethics rules for government officials and their immediate family members tightened up. Instead, you seem just to want bad things for Biden. That's being a partisan hack.
Likewise, Thomas is the most obviously ethically questionable justice (from his wife's political involvement including in the Big Lie and Justice Thomas not recusing from a case that would potentially impact the disclosure of her communications in furthering those lies, to accepting lavish vacations from a politically active billionaire, to the most minor offense of failing to disclose the billionaire's largesse in taking over the expense and upkeep of his mother's house and transforming the neighborhood all so he could build a museum to honor Thomas, but "fair market value"....it's gross).
And, yes, Ginsburg shouldn't have accepted an award from NOW just as conservative Justices shouldn't accept awards, speak at, or recruit for the Federalist Society or conservative political organizations. Both are political entities and Justices shouldn't get involved in politics like that.
All of which is argument for better ethical standards for the Court. It is vitally important that the citizenry have confidence in the Court as an institution, but that confidence has to be earned. They are frittering it away by failing to address these obvious ethical issues.
It seems simple enough just to adopt the standards applicable to federal judges if they didn't really want to be serious about it, but at least do something. Apparently, Roberts and Co. don't want to choose between the bad publicity of disclosing largesse from billionaires or forgoing the largesse. It's gross.
Roberts purported to be an institutionalist and he is going to be remembered for kneecapping the Court.
I didn't mention Hunter or any Biden. What are you talking about?
Kushner - Plenty of reports about his dealings sound very problematic. I agree.
Thomas is a great Justice, and trying to make a big deal about this $40,000 real estate sale of a 1/3 interest is just laughable.
Better ethical standards? I'm all ears. Frankly, what I am taking away from all this information is that the Justices, both left and right, are pretty darn transparent, held to account, and under the microscope in our current system. Actually a rare surprisingly good thing.
Thomas stopped disclosing the lavish gifts of travel when it was reported. That isn't transparency and certainly not willing transparency.
He didn't like the consequences of both accepting lavish gifts and disclosing them. Given the choice between not accepting them and not disclosing them, he went with not disclosing them.
It's nice you pretend the emperor still has clothes.
"Instead, the attacks are about undermining the Supreme Court now that it no longer acts as a super-legislature for implementing the Left's progressive policies. Other justices have also suffered baseless attacks on their ethics and character. The Left is weaponizing financial disclosures to smear conservative justices. "
Sounds like a real straight-shooter whose word everyone should definitely just take at face value without the need for any corroborating evidence.
Al Cowlings: "I've known OJ for decades, and I know there's no way he killed anyone."
Josh Blackman: "WOW, this changes everything! Media narrative DEBOONKED."
Well it was actually two peoples he killed.
Always wondered, if Nicole or her date had pulled, lets see, 1994? Colt Python, Beretta 92, Bren 10( Sonny Crockett Reference) and shot and killed OJ like a dog, what the reaction have been??
I mean OJ was "Unarmed" except for those Sharp Bruno Maglis, and he was just coming by to pay child support before he flew to Chicago (remember the initial Bullshit "OJ was in Chicago at the time of the murders)
I don't think the final chapter's been played out for Orenthal.... Jay-Hovahs Sword might not be always swift, but it's certainly sharp,
Frank
Everything in that paragraph you quoted is true. Never before in media history have there been hit pieces on sitting USSC justices like there have been in the last few months. I can't recall a single time in history that USSC justices were called to Congress to discuss "ethics" at the USSC level.
So spare the high dudgeon, because it's bullshit on stilts. You want the court changed to be a super-legislature for the Dems. Just have the balls to admit it.
You don't know very much history. There have been tons of hit pieces on sitting justices. Read some of the articles the Jeffersonian press ran on Samuel Chase after the 1800 election. He was also "called to Congress to discuss ethics" when he was impeached. I've read hit pieces that ran about Louis Brandeis, William O. Douglas, Hugo Black, Abe Fortas, and David Souter, just off the top of my head.
Very interesting.
When the story about the sale of Mrs Thomas’s house to Crow broke I noticed there was very little detail in the mainstream media sources I was reading – things that responsible investigative reporting would have easily uncovered. That made me wonder if the “whole story” was revealed and if not, why not.
This source of course provides more information than a reporter might find as some if it’s not public information. However at least the “respected media” should have reported the “comps” at the time of the sale, the general condition of the neighborhood at the time of the sale, and expert opinion on the diminished value of the property due to a life estate allowing tenancy of an 85 year old female for the remainder of her life.
I guess I'm not too surprised that many of the same people that say Hunter's business deals have nothing to do with Joe, despite that he seems to fly to half his meetings on AF1 or AF2, are the same ones that think someone buying Thomas's boyhood home from his mother and letting her live out the rest of her days there is an ethical blot on Thomas of the first order.
I guess I'm not too surprised that many of the same people that say it's no problem for a Supreme Court justice to have a wealthy activist benefactor constantly showering him with gifts and cushy financial entanglements are the same ones that think an email by a friend of the son of the former Vice President with the words "the big guy" in it amounts to giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
That's called aboutwhatism, when I turn your foolish whataboutism around on you.
Technically, it was an email ABOUT said son getting cut huge checks from, yes, the nations' foremost strategic enemy.
Blackman and Paoletta are being complete and utter hacks (again, in the case of Blackman). At some point, you’d think Blackman would have some sense of shame. Setting aside the specifics for a second, here is what Blackman and Paoletta are saying: “Thomas didn’t do anything wrong because he says he didn’t do anything wrong.”
And of course he did something wrong. The law requires reporting any transaction over $1,000. There is a separate section for reporting capital gains. So assuming any of the other facts aren’t fictional — and there’s no supporting evidence for them — then Thomas didn’t have capital gains and wasn’t required to report this there. But nothing even remotely hints of any exception in the transaction section for losses. Here is what the controlling statute itself says:
Was this a sale which exceeds $1,000 in real property? Yes. Was it his personal residence? No. Is there anything in there remotely unclear?
Here’s what the instruction book for the AO-10 form says:
This is a man who prides himself on close readings of statutory text, and he’s pretending he didn’t understand these things included a property he owned that wasn’t his residence?
The plumber’s leaky faucet, and the cobbler’s barefoot children.
Thomas will amend the disclosure. So he agrees it should have been included, and your wall of text is unnecessary.
Is the article correct that the form inquires about “investments or trusts” ?
Justice Thomas habitually amends disclosures (not as habitually as some people publish vile racial slurs, but plenty habitually) after others disclose his noncompliance.
And, so far, he has gotten away with it. He could be performing a public service by precipitating needed, overdue ethics standards for the Supreme Court (arranged without his help and perhaps over his objection, in line with his traditional approach to ethics).
He will amend his disclosure.
Because he got caught.
Nothing virtuous there.
Virtue? He's on a Mission From God.
A paltry, illusory, obsolete God.
Well I have to agree with you there, Coach Sandusky, a God who would let a Cereal Sex Criminal go unpunished for Decades is Paltry, Illusory (isn't that the definition of a God? not like you just see Him down at the corner drug store) Obsolete??? not so sure I'd go that far, still plenty of Lightning in J-Hay's Quiver (is that what you would keep lightning in? a Quiver?? (, is that how you say it? "Quiver", like "Bingo??? I'm trying to sound like Herr Standarternfuhrer Hans Landa from "Inglorious Basterds" Oooooohhhhh, Dat's a Quiv-uhhhhhh!!!!!!!)
Frank
+100
"here is what Blackman and Paoletta are saying: “Thomas didn’t do anything wrong because he says he didn’t do anything wrong."
Huh? The article says that he made a good-faith error, and will amend his disclosure. Any evidence that that's not true? The rules for, say, Sotomayor's disclosure are just as clear, and she made a similar error, but no one is claiming that she acted in bad faith.
So you're argument is that Thomas is too fucking stupid to read instructions, and that he gets to pretend that he just doesn't understand the law?
Might I remind you that he's one of nine people in this country that don't get to use "I didn't understand the basic text of the fucking law" as an excuse. I'd also remind you of his decision to deliberately stop reporting on his various conflicts of interests and ethical failings after being called out in 2004 by the Times.
Sotormayor voluntarily amended her forms. Thomas didn't do a goddamn thing other than hiding his conflicts of interest until he got called out for his moral failings.
There's plenty of evidence that he's full of shit. Don't worry yourself over it though, just stay on your knees and keep your mouth open.
Just go ahead and call him a stupid Nigger, you fucking faggot,
See, that's how you cut through the bullshit, you know damn well, when Ka-grungi-Jackson-Brownes corruption comes out, you'll fall around your pencil dick to pretend it isn't important, "all the Black Judges do that"
Hey, I get the "Keep your mouth open" bit, your daughters do too,
(or your sons, that's even worse)
Frank
So Jason's a real estate expert who knows a sitting USSC justice should know the ins and outs of every single contract. Sorry, bozo, but it doesn't work that way. You're holding Thomas to a higher standard than you do Sotomayor because you're a left wing hack. Just have the stones to admit it.
It doesn't require knowing anything other than he sold real estate. Which he did. Are you suggesting he didn't know he sold the property?
Yes. The fact that Clarence Thomas can read.
But my point is that the article's entire basis for claiming that he made a "good faith error" is that Thomas says he did.
Why isn't that good enough for you? And ask yourself if someone on your side had done something similar, would you react the same way?
Be honest.
"Yes, he broke the rules, but he says it was an honest mistake, so therefore it proves he didn't do anything wrong."
I think the question answers itself.
Who exactly do you think my "side" is?
Oh, well, if one of Thomas's old friends says he did nothing wrong, that surely ends the matter. Nobody would go out on a limb like that for a close, personal friend who is one of the most powerful men in America.
It’s been said that Blackman has been trying to shit-post his way to becoming an Article III appointment in a future Republican administration. Presumably a district court. But look at these absolutely awful credibility determination skills. The statements of close personal allies don’t just bolster the case for the accused they also completely unravel the entire charge. Can you imagine this dude doing a bench trial?!? Even the biggest party hacks have to understand on some level how terrible he would be at that job and why he will never ever become one.
I don’t know. Did you see Aileen Cannon’s opinion in the Mar a Lago docs case? Shameless hackery didn’t keep her off the bench. No reason to think it would Josh.
True. But I guess I don’t know enough about how
much her prior career involved insanely credulous takes.
She's from Florida, right?
Proximate to Mar-a-Lago?
Would anyone have noticed her visiting Mar-a-Lago over the years?
In fairness to Cannon, she was more qualified than Josh experience-wise, i.e., she did a stint as an AUSA. But her Trumpy hackitude was very much a known quantity.
Oooh, thats gonna leave a mark!
It’s also worth noting that the story is completely unsourced.
The latest attacks on Justice Thomas have nothing to do with ethics. Instead, the attacks are about undermining the Supreme Court now that it no longer acts as a super-legislature for implementing the Left’s progressive policies.
Now, it is possible that Mark Paoletta interviewed a number of people who publicly criticized Justice Thomas’s ethics, and he is accurately relaying what those people unanimously told him. But I would suggest it’s much more likely that Paoletta doesn’t have any sources for the above statement; he simply made it up.
Even if Paoletta invented some of the claims in his piece, that doesn’t mean he invented the entire thing. But it does call it into question.
.
Or instead - let's have a drawing and quartering over a little real estate deal that went wrong. That's only fair, right?
Look in the mirror once in a while.
No one here thinks anything is going to happen to Thomas, you can cool off your defensiveness.
You don't need to be partisan to see that this story's pretty thin, and based on Thomas himself's somewhat unrealistic after-the-fact explanations.
By Thomas’ own admission he was dumping money into this house for repairs— it’s part of his excuse as to why he didn’t think he had to report it. So crow buys it for a song and then takes over the capital improvements that Thomas was making previously. Basically taking over and soaking up this money pit of a house. All while granting a life estate to mom that is worth at least some substantial portion of the purchase price so she doesn’t have to move.
This is the story that makes Thomas look better? It still seems sketchy AF!
Yes, it means that in addition to the money Thomas received from the sale, he received the additional financial benefit of not having to continue to pay for the maintenance of the house. So the total financial benefit to Thomas is larger than what the initial reporting suggested.
Don't forget transforming the entire neighborhood to make it safer for his mother and the bonus museum to himself.
He should have been paying a buyer to take the property, amirite?
He said he was going to bulldoze it, so, yeah, paying a buyer would have been market value, apparently. But he got at least $40,000 out of the deal (not counting the savings of unloading the money pit, as he reportedly was spending more on upkeep than it was "worth").
How quickly "conservatives" forget how economics work!
That's brilliant. I can't wait to use this as I go lowball shopping for property.
Hey seller, you are going to receive an additional financial benefit! You don't have to pay for maintenance any more! Now I'll take it for 30% off your listing, cash in hand.
It's unfortunate that you aren't bright enough to have understood the argument.
In this case, Thomas was paying maintenance for a house which his mother lived in. Selling it to someone else, while still allowing his mother to continue living there, makes the argument about maintenance costs in this case entirely legitimate.
He was no longer paying for the maintenance of the house his mother lived in, while she continued to live there.
"Thomas was paying maintenance"
As property owners do . . . unless there's a commercial tenant with a triple net lease. Sorry, there's no coherent point or argument here.
You still don't seem to grasp that the benefit in this case involved no longer having to take care of his own mother's house, while still allowing her to live there.
Most people who sell property don't get to still have their family members they are providing for stay at the property they just sold off.
That's overlooking the real concern, which is Thomas' ethical failings and willful violation of the law.
"So crow buys it for a song . . . This is the story that makes Thomas look better? "
Do you know what buying something for a song means??
I suspect this particular purchase price was precisely calculated to enable the kind of non-disclosure shenanigans he engaged in in the first place. In any event it seems pretty clear this was a boon to Thomas. Disagree if you want, some of us live in reality.
So no. Got it.
Hilarious how Blackman views this as an exoneration:
When Crow first expressed interest in buying the home, he did not know that Justice Thomas had an ownership interest in it — he thought it was just his mother's home.
So Crow didn't think Thomas owned the property, just that he'd inherit the property (or the proceeds from its sale).
Crow asked Thomas what would happen to this home when his mother passed, and Justice Thomas replied that he would bulldoze it.
So Crow turned a significant expense (bulldozing the house) into an income.
In 2014, Crow visited Thomas's boyhood home, where the justice's mother, Leola Williams, was living. The neighborhood was unsafe, with crack houses nearby, and drug dealers and derelicts roaming the street.
[...]
Crow also bought several other homes and lots on this street, and this small area has since been transformed into a beautiful, vibrant, and safe street.
So Crow not only bought and maintained Thomas's mother's house, he bought and maintained much of the neighbourhood to ensure Thomas's mother would live in a nice neighbourhood!
Oh, and
This arrangement allowed Crow to begin the work to preserve the property immediately while allowing Mrs. Williams, now 94, to continue to live there.
So it sounds like Crow started dumping money into the property after purchase to improve living conditions for his tenant (whom was already planning to live there until death).
What a generous land lord doing a totally normal business transaction!!
Over the years, several justices have amended their filings
[...]
Again, nobody questioned her integrity. Why is Justice Thomas being held to a different standard?
Because the scale of omission is vastly different and they apparently pro-actively reported once they realized or it was brought to their attention. Thomas on the other hand has concealed these until relationships and gifts until uncovered by investigative reporting.
Mark Paoletta, who has many close ties to the Thomases
[...]
The latest attacks on Justice Thomas have nothing to do with ethics. Instead, the attacks are about undermining the Supreme Court now that it no longer acts as a super-legislature for implementing the Left's progressive policies.
It's charming how Blackman suggests we consider Thomas's partisan Conservative friend as an impartial analysis of the facts.
However, just looking at the facts, Crow spent a significant amount of money to not only ensure that a museum would be built to Thomas, but also to ensure that his mother lived out her final days in a well maintained house, but in a well maintained neighborhood as well.
Sounds like he was investing in his side of a reciprocal relationship.
I know this is a literal Clarence Thomas "Lynch Mob" because he's too Uppity, thinking he can sell his own property, what does he think this is? a free country,
but if there was an Impeachment Trial, or when some Woke/BLM assassinates him (hey, people show up all the time on Surpremes porches with guns) would the Senate even have a majority to nominate a new Judge?? Diane Not-so-Fine-Stein's still out with the Shingles, and is Stuttering John Fetterman on solid foods yet??? And Joe Man-chin just converted to Re-pubic-ism (not really, but I made you think about it)
Frank
It’s all a non-story since Crow has never been a party to any case before the Court.
I don’t like people with strong political positions paying huge sums of money to select Justices, formal party before the Court or no.
I also think reporting something for a while, and then stopping when called on it, is not a sign of integrity.
There are a bunch of VC posts on this not because there's a coordinated liberal conspiracy the Conspiracy must counter, but because it looks bad and they know it.
Thomas may not get impeached, but using this to maybe get some ethical rules on the Court would help with trust and not go astray.
+100
I will gladly agree that this looks bad, as opposed to being bad, while maintaining that the members of Congress are about the last people around who are in a position to be throwing stones, while they live in veritable Crystal Palaces of corruption.
This is a case of the galactic mass blackhole calling the kettle black.
I am aware you have trouble telling the difference between following the law and what's okay to do.
But for the rest of us, this tells is something about the character of Justice Thomas, and the need for rules about the ethics of the Justices.
You can yell about Congress not being fit to do oversight all you want, but that's you mixing up legal and moral yet again.
When Crow first expressed interest in buying the home, he did not know that Justice Thomas had an ownership interest in it — he thought it was just his mother's home.
Because doing a favour for Thomas's mother has nothing to do with Thomas...the more they defend Thomas, the more they're inculpating him.
Ooh! "Inculpate" that must be serious! Does Hunter Biden's un-reported Income from You-Crane, Saudi Arabia, China! "Inculpate" him, and I get his pleading poverty and not paying Child Support, helps his case that he's not getting unreported Income from You-Crane, Saudi Arabia, China! Stand my by prediction Hunter's gonna go all Jim Morrison before the 2024 erection,
Frank
You have convinced me. I will not be supporting the nomination of Hunter Biden either to the presidency or to the Supreme Court.
That post makes the whole thing look even worse. Crow threw money around a small town to effectively build a shrine to Thomas. It might be legal, but not at all ethical.
It is in fact perfectly ethical.
What's the address of this property? Let's pull up zillow and check the zestimates in the area. Maybe pull some comps going back to 2014. Come on you autists, dig in!
Those, included Blackman, who are tripping over themselves trying to defend Clarence are missing the big picture. The standard for every judge and elected official is the avoidance of the appearance of impropriety. Any justice – regardless of who appointed him or her – who accepts junkets, free vacations, and rides on yachts and private jets has failed to avoid the appearance of impropriety. See how simple it is? Do your job, pay your own way, live within your means, and stop thinking you’re special.
There is no appearance of impropriety.
Oh please. Y'all harp on about "Soros Prosecutors" all the time, and I can't even understand the link you're trying to draw, it's so attenuated.
And here you have a Supreme Court justice whose entire extended family's lifestyle is being subsidized by a wealthy activist benefactor, and your response is "there's no appearance of impropriety?" Laughable. This is the very definition of an appearance of impropriety, maybe even actual impropriety.
The failure to report isn't the story. It's certainly a contributing factor, since it suggests a guilty conscience. But the story is the largesse itself.
*receives a paltry $40,000 in real estate proceeds and takes a loss*
"Your entire lifestyle is being subsidized!!"
You know that's not all that's at issue here. The flow of benefits is well beyond what you're talking about.
Why are you lying when everyone knows you're lying?
I'm not aware of any other benefit that Thomas received. Care to specify?
Annual international all-expenses-paid family luxury vacations... free rent and maintenance for mom... property improvements in anticipation of a museum / library / whatever... $$$ for wifey... and that's just what we know about.
We are talking about the real estate transaction.
“for mom” – Mrs. Williams is not a member of the federal judiciary as far as I know. If she gets nominated we’ll be sure to circle back on this. Meanwhile we are discussing Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.
“property improvements” – What property belonging to Thomas is getting improved by Harlan Crow?
Who are you trying to convince? Yourself?
Your man looks to be entirely compromised. Nobody thinks anything bad's gonna happen to him. He's not gonna get impeached. It's just politics.
As a result of him and those in his party acting like it's totally fine for a justice to live as a succubus off the fortune of an activist patron, more people will vote for Democratic senators and presidents in order to prevent the Republicans from nominating any more of these corrupt, illegitimate, out-of-touch douchebags.
So nothing. Got it.
[moved]
Believe me, I love it every time you guys pretend this is all fine. Makes you look completely mad with lust for power. The more you defend the indefensible, the more people will see how morally bankrupt your side is.
Go ahead, do it again! Just click that button right there.
VVVV
I haven't delved in to the vacation issue, where Thomas visited the guys houses and rode in his vehicles a few times. Maybe riding in a friend's boat or plane or visiting their house can be unethical, I'm not sure.
But here we were talking about the real estate transaction and I just wanted to know what all these other benefits are that Thomas received.
"I'm going to buy your mom's house. She can still live there the rest of her life, rent-free, and I'll take care of the maintenance for the house for you so that she's taken care of."
If you don't think that's a benefit to Thomas and highly unethical, then you're just as much of a rudderless shit-stain as he is.
If it’s done for market value, it’s not even a benefit, much less unethical. It’s just a bona fide transaction for value, an exchange. Is there even an argument that it’s unethical? I haven’t seen one. The objection, rather, is just that it should have been disclosed.
The reality is, Harlan Crow probably did buy this “for a song” as someone else said below. It’s going to be a valuable museum one day. He probably should have paid more for it.
Yes, and I suppose you think his dangling this museum / library idea is also just completely on the up-and-up. "Keep me happy with your rulings and you just might win your very own commemorative monument!"
And yes, normal people generally feel like when a public servant’s immediate family lives in a rich benefactor’s house rent-free, that’s a telltale sign of undue influence.
I mean, imagine the paroxysm of indignation you’d have if Fox News told you that Talia Jackson was living in George Soros’s house. The ensuing shit fit would cause a simultaneous rectal prolapse and fecal vomiting.
And also, since you're interested in the real-estate transaction specifically, there's no way of looking at it that doesn't stink.
First, if Thomas didn't think it looked sketchy, he would've reported it. So Thomas knew that having his rich vacation buddy buy his house was a bad look.
Knowing it was sketchy-seeming, maybe Thomas decided to sell to Crow anyway, just as a way to own the libs and show his contempt for the American people. He does like to do that kind of thing. But that also would've required reporting the transaction... barring some sort of long con scheme, which is hard to imagine.
So Thomas knew it was sketchy and wanted to keep it secret. But then if the deal was really at market value, why didn't he just sell to someone else? That's the whole definition of "market value" -- there would've been someone willing to take essentially the same terms.
So no, this wasn't a market value deal. There's no conceivable reason for Thomas to have done a sketchy market-value deal with Crow and then try to cover it up. This was a sweetheart deal between a patron and his beneficiary.
Sadly, there is no 'pause button' for this scurrilous reporting, whose purpose is to delegitimize the institution of the SCOTUS. That is what is happening here. It is wrong, and we will all suffer for it.
The reporting isn't the cause of the delegitimization.
That's like saying the frustration with the state of my street is caused by the reporting on all its potholes. No actually, it's the potholes.
Yeah, it's all bad faith and maybe a conspiracy.
Just keep on about your conservative day, no need to concern yourself with anything uncomfortable about your guy!
It's a nothingburger. The libs in this thread are in high dudgeon mode over a nothingburger. Please stop being such a hypocrite.
From the WSJ
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson didn’t get the same attention when she revised her financial disclosures in 2022. Her oversights were far more extensive than Justice Thomas’s. There was also no outcry in 2020 when Justice Sonia Sotomayor amended her financial disclosures after the group Fix the Court found that she hadn’t disclosed reimbursement for trips to universities.
Nor was there an uproar when the OpenSecrets website reported in 2019 that former Justice Stephen Breyer was reimbursed for trips some 219 times from 2004-2018. Some of those trips were supported by the wealthy Pritzker family. There are other examples involving liberal Justices.
To be clear, we believe none of these Justices did anything wrong. But neither did Justice Thomas in having a rich friend in Harlan Crow or a minor oversight on one of his disclosure forms. Democrats didn’t mind any of this when they agreed with the Court’s opinions on gay marriage, abortion, or restraining Donald Trump.
Bottom line is that none of the aforementioned actions, including Thomas' actions are ethical violations, at least not of any substance. the purpose of the democrat party attacks on Thomas are attempts to deligitmise the court in the eyes of the ill informed. by the ill informed, those that get there news from CNN, WP, NPR , NYT
Because of the typos and bad grammar, we know that no one at the WSJ wrote the last paragraph of your post. But it raises a mildly interesting point: Is there such a thing as being just a little unethical? Is there an ethical spectrum? Isn’t saying that there can be unsubstantial ethical violations the same as saying that someone can be just a little bit evil?
I mean leaving aside the absurd false equivalence (reimbursed for flying commercial to Fairbanks to give a speech at a law school commencement vs private jet to private yacht in Bali to discuss who knows what?)… WSJs position is that this is all fine and no big deal?
For an alternative take, may I suggest Sheldon Whitehouse?
https://twitter.com/MeidasTouch/status/1653554758144098307/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1653554758144098307¤tTweetUser=MeidasTouch
It's only false equivalence because Estragon is a partisan lefty. It Thomas had done the EXACT SAME THINGS as Jackson, he'd be screaming to the heavens.
This is all kind of stupid, coming from people who didn't see anything dodgy about Clinton and Lynch meeting "to discuss the kids" in a private plane parked on the tarmac. Geeze, might as well have resorted to the Cone of Silence, while they were at it, how cloak and dagger can you get?
IOW, I take these ethics claims with enough salt to give a large city hypertension. Ethics complaints in the most corrupt city in North America are nothing but weapons, they don't reflect actual concerns about ethics.
Sheldon Whitehouse as an example of ethical purity - Seriously
What ever you think of Thomas' or Sotomayer or Gorsuch, or Ginsburg or any other SC Justice ethical transgression, those transgressions are very trivial in comparison to the ethical transgressions of most every Senator, including Whitehouse.
Here is the youtube link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojOBGTUDPVA
Thomas/Alito/Scalia apologists need to rebut this if they can. Which they can't if they stick to the facts.
Money quote: "Some textualist, BTW"
So frickin' what? The last paragraph is the commenters opinion. The prior 3 are true. Are you going to address that, or admit that you have double standards?
Come on. Have the stones to pick one.
1. How do you know which parts of Tom's post were written by him and which were written by someone else? Quotation marks can be your friend.
2. It's fascinating that you demand that I have the stones to answer your question when you didn't have the stones to answer mine.
Reimbursements aren’t the issue. Amended disclosures aren’t the issue. (Even if they were, at least everyone other than Thomas amended before being caught.)
The issue is having your and your family’s lifestyles subsidized by an activist businessman. If that’s what’s going on with this Pritzker guy, that would be bad.
There’s a reason Thomas didn’t disclose. It looks really really bad! Disclosure doesn’t fix the underlying problem.
From the WSJ
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson didn’t get the same attention when she revised her financial disclosures in 2022. Her oversights were far more extensive than Justice Thomas’s.
You mean some teaching income and her husband's consulting income?
I'd hardly call that "far more extensive".
Nor was there an uproar when the OpenSecrets website reported in 2019 that former Justice Stephen Breyer was reimbursed for trips some 219 times from 2004-2018. Some of those trips were supported by the wealthy Pritzker family.
AFAIK these were work related trips. Paid travel to appear at conferences and events and so on.
Potential reasons for ethical concerns for sure, but it's ridiculous to compare them to the years of luxury vacations enjoyed by Thomas.
To be clear, we believe none of these Justices did anything wrong.
To be clear, that WSJ article is a joke full of blatant false equivalencies.
Well, I guess there really is no level the Democrats won't sink to:
https://hotair.com/david-strom/2023/05/03/democrats-are-threatening-to-remove-security-funding-for-supreme-court-n547972
That sounds really bad. Is this the letter in question? Because that is threatening to withhold $10M, without specifying what has to be cut.
If there is another letter, can you provide a link? Examples of congress critters saying the intent is to cut off security?
(there are, alas, comments on the linked twitter thread explicitly supporting removing security ... what is the matter with people)
I'd say they at least gave themselves some deniablity; It may have been coincidence that the amount the budget was to be cut was roughly the same as the total security spending.
Do you happen to have a source for that? And/or a source for the approximate total SC budget?
Hawley claims Democrats are intimidating the Supreme Court with push for stricter ethics
"The letter does not reference security funding. Instead, it suggests that the Senate withhold $10 million from the court’s budget in fiscal year 2024 unless the court adopts more stringent ethics standards. Hawley, using the Supreme Court’s budget request, pieced together two budget increases requested by the judicial branch — $4 million for police pay in response to increased threats and $5.8 million to expand security by the Supreme Court Police."
It's a little bit of a stretch, but not utterly baseless.
"You’ve got a nice little Supreme Court here. It’d be a shame if something happened to it."
I was hoping for a dem saying 'we want to cut security funding', as opposed to a nice round number, and a repub finding two increases that total $10M.
And assuming the *increases* are cut, that still leaves the existing funding. ISTR you are a fan of maintaining previous budget levels 🙂
(I should say: I haven't spent much time looking into the various allegations about Thomas and other justices. To the extent I have, my sense is it is pretty minor and partisan. But that's a low-confidence assessment, and I'm not going to do a deep enough dive to confidently say anything, so I have kept my mouth shut.
But allegations ought not be thrown around baselessly. That's true whether you are accusing a justice of impropriety, or accusing dems of trying to 'remove security funding'. So that's why I'm asking for the evidence here.)
Fair. It's far from accurate to say Democrats are threating to "remove security funding."
And it's not quite accurate to say Democrats are threatening to withhold portions of security funding specifically, since they didn't single that out. In theory, the threat, if followed through on, might permit SCOTUS to make cuts elsewhere, such as in personnel, which I understand is the largest expense category, rather than foregoing the allegedly necessary security expenditures.
But if the SCOTUS budget requests are to be believed (and I don't necessarily believe government budget requests, but if they are believed), then the additional funds are necessary for security, and it may be plausibly claimed that withholding those funds endangers court security, unless cuts can be made elsewhere.
I have no complaint with any of that!
M L, the Supreme Court, like the Capitol, should be defended with the same aggressive energy which protects the White House. I mean that. But of course by that standard, on January 6 there would have been corpses strewn throughout the building, and around the periphery as well.
Probably also a running gun battle. As awful as that is to contemplate, I think it would have made it easier for the nation to understand what actually happened, and to put it behind.
It’s doubtful that if that had happened we would still feel as so many do now that the nation lacks security, political resolve, and is maybe on the verge of political collapse. People at least would not be worrying that Merrick Garland might create an existential crisis for the nation by dawdling too much.
From what I can tell by the comments of leftists on this thread, and the threat of Democrats to cut funding and endanger court security, the specific thing they are pushing for next is to make the court "adopt more stringent ethics standards." So they can generate a little more bad press, maybe a hearing, and write a little made up history about Thomas' supposed ethical violations even though other justices have also amended their disclosures, all as part of the broader goal of delegitimization.
They really know how to squeeze for that juice.
But assuming good faith for a moment, do any leftists care to point out in one sentence how they believe the ethics standards can be improved?
Except you have no evidence Dems are trying to endanger Court security.
This is a shitty dodge. I get that you want to say Thomas ain't no thing - and if you look at academic speaking fees you might have a point about where the norm is. But your scope is not just Thomas it's the Court is pure and good. That's absolutely incorrect. There is a bipartisan issue with money from interested groups.
Oh hay here is the bill on the floor of Congress you didn't bother to read as you weaved your bullshit conspiracies instead of, you know, thought about the policy issue.
"In February, Whitehouse reintroduced the Supreme Court Ethics, Recusal, and Transparency (SCERT) Act, legislation that would create a much-needed process for investigating misconduct at the Supreme Court, strengthen recusal standards for judges and disclosure rules for special interests trying to influence the courts, improve disclosure of gifts and travel for judges, and mandate the creation of a binding code of ethics. "
Now get off your 'I don't need to think' accusations of bad faith and engage with the broader issue, rather than your partisan knee-jerk defensiveness and unsuported conspiracies.
What would you say is the biggest deficiency in the ethics standards that needs to be addressed by this SCERT Act?
M L: Same as it ever was. How to get right wingers to take responsibility to pressure their own miscreants out of office. Like the Democrats did with Fortas, for instance. Or like Republicans used to do, with Nixon for instance.
"People I disagree with aren't doing things I want to make them do" isn't a policy proposal.
"Except you have no evidence Dems are trying to endanger Court security."
Except, you know, for the conspicuous refusal to enforce the law when people illegally picket one of the majority Justice's homes. Despite the Supreme court Marshal making an official request that they start doing so.
Sarcastr0 2 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
"Except you have no evidence Dems are trying to endanger Court security."
Except we do have evidence that AG Garland impeded court security.
I have a proposal.
Let's remove Clarence Thomas from the court and then see how many private plane rides and super yacht invitations he gets then?
My guess: none.
lets remove biden from the presidency and see how the biden family empire shrinks
We saw how much the clinton foundation lost in donations after hillary lost to trump.
Biden and the Clintons properly disclosed and handled such gifts. Thomas and Alito did not.
Orbital Mechanic 42 mins ago
Flag Comment Mute User
"Biden and the Clintons properly disclosed and handled such gifts. "
Seriously
You mean they disclosed the quid pro quo with the pay for play
"You mean they disclosed the quid pro quo with the pay for play"
You can make up such things, but the fact remains they disclosed the gifts so that you could make that conjecture.
Thomas set about hiding his gifts, to prevent anyone making the same conjecture on similar facts.
One is definitely worse than the other. Sunlight may not be a perfect disinfectant, but it's better than the darkness of Thomas' closet.
"Biden and the Clintons did it too" isn't the defense of Thomas that you seem to think it is.
Queen, true to form, brings up Trump unprompted. What a good little soldier you are.
She's back!
Queen almathea 1 hour ago
Flag Comment Mute User
"Yes, Trump’s palling around on Epstein’s plane looks bad."
So did clinton palling around on Epsteins plane
Trump is still the only person to have ever really punished Epstein. He banned him from his clubs when he learned Jeffrey treated an employee poorly, and his DOJ arrested Epstein. The only previous run-in with the law that Epstein had he was given a sweetheart deal because of the leverage he had. He had no such leverage over Trump.
You present as a woman.
Queen almathea 1 hour ago
Flag Comment Mute User
I’m a dude Bumble (as your mom could affirm).
Then are you a closet queen?
PS. The Momma shit is growing very old.
I did not mention Trump or anyone else by name. Got a cite that shows trump visited Epstein's island?
No, as a literary charetcter.
Replying to Queen of dissembling :
Queen almathea 7 mins ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Lol, does your bubble let air in?
https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article256740662.html
Decades before he became president, Trump flew four times in 1993, once in 1994 and once in 1995, in addition to a flight in 1997 that had been documented in portions of the flight log previously released. The flights were all between Palm Beach and New York City airports, with the June 1994 flight stopping at Ronald Reagan Washington Washington National Airport between Palm Beach and New York.
Rpelying to the Queen of dissembling (and obfuscation):
Queen almathea 5 mins ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Is your argument palling around on an island with a pedophile is wrong but palling around with one on their private jet is a-ok?
Dissembling and obfuscation at it's best. Class are available from Her Majesty (The Queen with a cock).
His “argument” is the simple observation that your cite shows that you were lying about Trump.
Nothing wrong with earning money or having hobbies.
One could see a lot of things as weird, so what?
If all you've got is that Thomas has a buddy with a hobby that you think is weird, you got nothing.
Heck, I've got wealthy friends, too. Once in a while I get invited to a summer party at their lake house. I suppose that if you were to price that out as though it were a stay at a luxury resort, it would look like a lot of money, but it's not like I can pocket it.
Like everybody else at the party, I bring a dish to pass around and it's considered good.
Right. Also, contrary to the lies and misinformation here, Trump never went to the island like all the others.
LOL, sure guys.
Not only do we know all about who was on that island, but we also know Trump was only seeming close to Epstein in all those pics as part of a deep sting he was doing!
Just cultish behavior, insisting on stuff you cannot know.
'and his DOJ arrested Epstein.'
It took an article in the ol' hated mainstream media to kick off the national outrage, while Trump gave the guy responsible for Epstein's sweet deal a sweet job.