The Volokh Conspiracy
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Second Amendment Roundup: Illinois Gun Ban Enjoined
The banned “assault weapon” features improve accuracy and reduce the risk of stray shots.
On April 28, Judge Stephen P. McGlynn of the Southern District of Illinois, in Barnett v. Raoul, issued a preliminary injunction against enforcement of the recently-passed Protect Illinois Communities Act (PICA), which bans "assault weapons" and standard-capacity magazines.
That morning, I had posted "A Judge Who Understands Firearms," describing the oral argument in which Judge McGlynn exhibited superior expertise about firearms and how they work, in contrast to the lack of such knowledge by too many judges.
At the beginning, the court stipulated the following proposition to which any court should agree: "no state may enact a law that denies its citizens rights that the Constitution guarantees them. Even legislation that may enjoy the support of a majority of its citizens must fail if it violates the constitutional rights of fellow citizens."
In finding that the plaintiffs are likely to prevail on the merits, the court brushed aside the argument that magazines holding more than the verboten number of cartridges are unnecessary to the functioning of a firearm and are thus not "arms." It didn't help Illinois that its own expert called them "arms"!
Also rejected was the argument that the prohibition on pistols with arm braces don't interfere with Second Amendment rights. Despite its recent attempt to restrict some braces, ATF itself recognizes that braces may be necessary for persons with disabilities to hold and fire certain pistols. Again, braces are "arms."
Next, the court succinctly summarized how the banned features facilitate the ability to accurately shoot and hit their intended target in case of confrontation, which is clearly protected by the Second Amendment:
Plaintiffs stated that "[a] pistol grip improves accuracy and reduces the risk of stray shots," that "[t]humbhole stocks likewise … provide[] for greater accuracy and decreases the risk of dropping the firearm or firing stray shots," and that "flash suppressors not only prevent users from being blinded in low lighting conditions … but also reduce recoil and muzzle movement, making the firearm less painful to use." … Defendants' have also recognized that such items "facilitate . . . sustained accuracy." … This Court agrees that in the case of each of these items "[t]he defensive application is obvious, as is the public safety advantage in preventing stray shots."
What a refreshing contrast to judicial opinions that superficially claim that pistol grips are designed to spray fire from the hip or that fail to address the specific banned features at all, opting instead to parrot the term "assault weapon" in every other sentence.
Next, Judge McGlynn found what is undeniable – that AR-15s are in common use and thus meet the Heller-Bruen test for protected arms: "more than 24 million AR-15 style rifles are currently owned nationwide," and they accounted for "nearly half of the rifles produced in 2018, and nearly 20% of all firearms of any type sold in 2020." "Under the Caetano test, even 1% of the 24 million AR-15 style rifles held by citizens is sufficient to result in a finding that such arms are in common use."
To make the statistics vivid, consider that sales of AR-15s more than double the sales of Ford F-150 pickup trucks.
No small wonder that the defendants "were unable to produce evidence showing that modern sporting rifles are both dangerous and unusual." (Notice that Judge McGlynn didn't use the loaded propaganda term "assault weapons.")
Since the banned firearms and magazines are in common use, they are protected and supposed historical analogues are irrelevant. Nonetheless, the state claimed some early restrictions such as those on Bowie knives as historical analogues, but they were concealed-carry regulations with a different "how and why" (Bruen's term) of the current ban on mere possession.
As to the balance of harms that a court must consider in granting a preliminary injunction, the court found it "uncontroverted that many of the banned modifiers, including but not limited to pistol grips, protruding grips, flash suppressors, and shrouds, have legitimate purposes that assist law-abiding citizens in their ability to defend themselves. The other side is less clear – there is no evidence as to how PICA will actually help Illinois Communities." Indeed, the Illinois Sheriffs' Association filed a brief opposing the ban and some local Illinois States Attorneys believe the ban to be unconstitutional.
Enactment of the PICA was a response to the Highland Park shooting last July 4, an act of violence that we all condemn. However, as the court observed, "it does not appear that the legislature considered an individual's right under the Second Amendment nor Supreme Court precedent." Judge McGlynn offered the following sage reflections:
"Nothing in this order prevents the State from confronting firearm-related violence. There is a wide array of civil and criminal laws that permit the commitment and prosecution of those who use or may use firearms to commit crimes. Law enforcement and prosecutors should take their obligations to enforce these laws seriously. Families and the public at large should report concerning behavior. Judges should exercise their prudent judgment in committing individuals that pose a threat to the public and imposing sentences that punish, not just lightly inconvenience, those guilty of firearm-related crimes."
With that, the court issued a preliminary injunction state-wide against enforcement of the ban. The state has sought a stay of the injunction pending appeal.
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Happy murdering each other, Illinois! I hope you're as good at it as Texas!
Strange how it is the gun-controlling big cities like Chicago with the highest murder and violent crime rates, while the gun-loving rural areas and small cities which have the lowest crime rates.
But you already knew that and just felt like leading off with a lie would begin the narrative on the wrong foot.
Not anymore!
https://www.ncja.org/crimeandjusticenews/gun-violence-rates-in-rural-areas-match-or-outpace-cities
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/map-gun-death-rates-lower-cities-than-rural-counties-rcna81462
Yes, it has to do with time to a Level III trauma center.
If you get shot in Boston, there's like 4 Level III trauma centers in the city itself. If you get shot in Bangor, ME, there is a Level II trauma center and if you live, they can medflight you the 120 miles to the Level III one in Portland. If you get shot in Houlton, ME, they might take you into Canada, otherwise it's 120 miles to Bangor.
So we need to look at the number of people shot, not killed.
If Reagan had been shot 20 years earlier, he would have died.
One more reason smart, educated, reasoning, accomplished Americans choose to reside in modern, educated, inclusive, successful communities.
Half-educated, superstitious, downscale, obsolete Americans — conservatives, mostly — prefer shambling, desolate, bigoted, can’t-keep-up backwaters.
The culture war will sift this. Those who choose declining communities and dying industries against all evidence will sustain predictable consequences. America will continue to improve despite their preferences and efforts.
Carry on, clingers. So far as your betters, and the reality-based world, permit.
"...modern, educated, inclusive, successful communities..."
Like Chicago, D.C., Atlanta, Houston, Minneapolis. Louisville, etc.?
Sartre was right. Hell truly is other people.
The farther I am from others, the happier I am. Any delay in services or convenience is more than worth the downside.
Disaffected, antisocial people have rights, too, including the right to reside in declining, substandard communities.
Should they expect other Americans to subsidize that choice?
You sure hate Chicagoans for some reason.
I wonder why.
NPC Alert
Interesting point you raise. Should pretentious, self-entitled, functionally helpless urban shitheads expect Americans in rural communities to, say, grow them food?
If some people don’t want to work, other people will.
At large-scale, modernized, efficient farming operations, ideally.
If we pay them to, yes.
And, we’re already paying them more than it’s worth. Farms are ridiculously subsidized with the taxes paid by pretentions urban shitheads. You’re welcome!
How does it feel to be suckling at my self-entitled teat?
("Teat" is my other nickname for Sir Randal Esq.)
Double *whoosh*, kids.
Point is, despite Artie's grand visions to the contrary, large-scale farming can't be done in an urban center next to world-class trauma centers.
So if you twats want to eat, yes, Randal, you do have to pay for that privilege. But as much as you whine about subsidies, at this juncture you've effectively conscripted a subpopulation into literally keeping you alive every day and just shrugging your shoulders at the effect that has on their access to the quality of healthcare you enjoy. You're welcome!
Hey, I'm not complaining. Just pointing out that calling us "self-entitled" is like when kids get mad at their parents for being tight with the handouts.
You'll get whatever handouts you get out of the kindness of our hearts. If you don't like it, move! Live somewhere normal and do something productive. I like Chinese rice just fine.
Until then, yeah, you're my conscript. Get to work and stop whining, little conscripts!
Points for candor, I guess. I'm bookmarking this one just in case you ever try to pass yourself off as human down the road.
"I like Chinese rice just fine"
I have some bad news for you - China isn't able to feed you. China is a net food importer, including food from the U.S.
I think, anyway. Articles on food tend to talk about the dollar value of trade in food, but if you are trying to assess self sufficiency, you care about calories/grams of protein/etc rather than dollar value. A California avocado may sell for the same price as a bushel of wheat, but if push comes to shove, no one will trade a bushel of wheat for an avocado.
Oh no, you're going to throw the fact that I'm happily subsidizing your ridiculous lifestyle back in my face? How ever will I cope!
My ridiculous lifestyle? Duuuude, I'm a software developer. Who spent most of my life in a big city. Eating food produced in Nebraska/Iowa/Kansas/etc, like every other American.
And I worked for a state university, so you - or anyway, the taxpayers of my state - absolutely subsidized my big city lifestyle. Thanks, much appreciated!
Sorry Absaroka! That was intended for Brian.
Don't you have a little boy to be penetrating?
Coach Sandusky's motto, "so many butts, so little time".
Frank
So, Artie, why is it that those "smart, educated, reasoning, accomplished Americans" who choose to live in places like Chicago can't seem to elect local officials who can successfully enforce those draconian gun laws which those "smart, educated, reasoning, etc., Americans" seem to want for their communities? Why is it that the local officials elected by those "smart, etc. Americans" have to depend upon forcing those draconian laws upon neighboring communities which don't want them? Aren't Chicagoans "smart" enough to enforce their own laws?
"Aren’t Chicagoans “smart” enough to enforce their own laws?"
Of course not, they're self loathing Democrats that have been running the city for over 80 years. A revolving door State's Attorney that even let Jussie Smollett off the hook after his racist hoax doesn't help either.
NPC Alert.
Is this why Idaho and Texas are awash in software engineers moving from Blue states?
Its the suicides stupid:
"Suicides were always the highest in rural areas. That hasn’t changed," Reeping said. "It's just that the gun deaths overall have gone up, including firearm suicides, in those areas."
And please don't complain about firearm suicides unless you are also going to complain about Dr. assisted suicide.
One of the links is specifically about murders.
The other one is about all gun deaths, which yes, includes a lot of suicides. But even that one has some juicy nuggets like
And lowest in the NE and NW, which are also pretty rural.
Lowest tier states for Homicide mortality:
New Hampshire
Vermont
Wyoming
Maine
Idaho
Massachusetts
Hawaii
Utah
Iowa
North Dakota
Nebraska
Rhode Island
Minnesota
Montana
Washington
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm
And pretty blue... almost as if gun laws make a difference!
And really, more important than gun laws is gun culture. Gun culture has gotten really nutty in place(s). Open carry used to be considered uncouth and unnecessarily provocative. Now it’s a badge of honor. And policies like stand-your-ground reinforce this conception of whipping out your gun as being an acceptable first resort. Of course you’re going to have more murders when everyone’s got itchy trigger fingers.
You should check out the gun laws in those states. Most of those states, ten to be exact, and several of them blue states, are constitutional carry, no permit needed for open or concealed carry:
Vermont New Hampshire North Dakota Maine Montana Idaho Utah Nebraska Wyoming Iowa
And even a couple of them that aren’t constitutional carry have been “shall issues” states for a long time such as Washington which became a shall issue state in 1962.
It’s definitely not the gun laws.
But sure culture has a lot to do with it, but I doubt open carry has anything to do with it.
Kazinsky, some folks are pro-gun. Some folks are anti-gun. Some folks—the majority of Americans—want to protect firearms rights, but reduce their social costs. The list of costs is far longer than any agenda pro-gun advocates seem willing to discuss.
There are two general categories of costs, violence per se, and cultural distortions.
First, the violence per se category. It features sub-categories, among which are topics affected differently by different gun-related considerations:
1. Murders generally 2. Gun suicides generally 3. Miscarried attempts at self-defense against: – unarmed would-be assailants; – armed non-assailants mistakenly judged by the shooter; – unarmed non-assailants mistakenly judged to intend an attack; – black people or other minorities unjustly misjudged by a shooter; – innocent people who unluckily encounter feckless shooters; 4. Unjustified police killings, whether murders or misjudgments; 5. Rage killings, such as road rage incidents; 6. Accidental gun deaths inflicted on gun users themselves; 7. Accidental gun deaths inflicted on family members or associates; 8. Gang killings; 9. Mass killings in schools, churches, supermarkets, theaters, etc.; 10. Killings by psychotics; 11. Killings by thieves doing thievery or robbers doing robbery; 12. Killings by shooters over personal status disputes; 13. Revenge killings; 14. Killings inflicted under the influence of intoxicants; 15. Political assassinations; 16. Gun terrorism; 17. Killings by children who accessed unsecured guns.
For each of those categories, there exists a corollary category involving injuries to shooting victims who survive. Except in the case of would-be suicides the corollary victims typically far outnumber those killed. The toll in gun-caused mayhem is enormous, but gets less attention than the fatalities.
Second, among the cultural distortions related to guns there are likewise diverse factors affected differently by different gun-related considerations:
1. Gun prevalence; 2. Differing gun policy issues related to population density; 3. Open carry versus concealed carry; 4. Status differences among citizens which affect gun access; 5. Risks of private intimidation, especially with domestic violence; 6. Risks of public intimidation, especially involving politics; 7. Public constraints—institutional defenses against gun risk; 8. Measures to isolate public leaders from a gun wielding public; 9. Perpetual legal combat over gun policy issues; 10. Private armed protection available to big shots and celebrities; 11. Political risks including armed insurrections; 12. Firearms features—lethal capacity considered comparatively; 13. Gun-aggression-related models—mercenary agencies; 14. Gun-protection-related models—gun ranges, gun stores; 15. Gun activity business models for insurance companies; 16. Legally permitted scope for private property gun policy; 17. Gun policy enforcement agencies in government; 18. Gun lobbying and gun money influence in politics; 19. Regional gun cultures, histories, and heritages; 20. Gun registration.
Those lists are incomplete of course. Every listed item adds an additional public cost, management problem, or accommodation challenge. Many pro-gun advocates oppose discussion or research with regard to practically every listed category in both lists.
Whatever issues pro-gun advocates are willing to discuss, they remain stubbornly unwilling to see opposed—citing alleged rights to short-circuit every other point of view—including especially points of view which insist the rights themselves are being misunderstood or misinterpreted. To understand that is to glimpse public irresponsibility so encompassing as to suggest incapacity among the gun advocates themselves to manage their weapons with an adequate sense of personal responsibility.
My apologies. An edit fail somehow collapsed what were meant to be two numbered lists.
We oppose your "research" because 100% of it is in bad faith. We oppose your "points of view" that are blatant lies.
IT'S THE TRAUMA CENTERS, STUPID....
Hint, anyone remember which President said that about the economy?
Should better Americans continue to subsidize rural health care? Why would that redistribution of resources — defying market judgments, choosing winners and losers among communities and people — be worthwhile?
People should be free to live where they wish. And to sustain the predictable consequences of those decisions. (We should continue to arrange strong lifelines for young people who wish to depart our shambling backwaters, though. Decent people don’t fault children for having losers as parents.)
Dr. Ed, for once you have come up with a non-facially stupid hypothesis. I understand that you want to revel in that historically unprecedented event.
But at some point you should recognize that it is in fact just a hypothesis, and you need to actually find the data to confirm it, instead of just repeating it over and over again.
"Open carry used to be considered uncouth and unnecessarily provocative. Now it’s a badge of honor."
It's kind of like the aftermath of Prohibition; Prior to Prohibition, most alcohol was consumed in the form of beer and wine. Prohibition shifted consumption in the direction of hard liquor, because that was easier to smuggle and conceal. It took a couple generations after Prohibition ended for the previous dominance of beer and wine to be restored, and with a relaxation of alcohol laws, beer entered a renaissance.
Similarly, before the gun control movement hit its stride, open carry was the rule, and concealed carry was considered the sort of thing criminals did. Then the gun control movement put a lot of work into suppressing open carry, so peaceful carry shifted to concealed carry. And concealed carry was adopted even in states where open carry was still theoretically legal, because you couldn't be harassed for carrying if nobody knew you were carrying.
Concealed carry was a response to gun control, IOW.
Now that the gun control movement has been weakened, and its influence is fading, we're gradually shifting back to the original preference for open carry. It's going to take a while, but we'll get there again.
Alcohol consumption during the Founding era was staggeringly high by modern standards -- several sources say over 7 gallons of ethanol per year by 1830, averaged across Americans 15 and up (equivalent to 1.7 handles of 80 proof spirits per week). Drinking rum and whisky was common even back then -- and spirits were rather more common than wine (which was mostly imported) and beer: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/alcohol-consumption-per-person-us.
Well, as the joke goes, it was safer than the water. But I'm not talking about the Founding era, just the era before Prohibition.
Well said. I am old enough to remember seeing open carry of six guns, by well dressed men, on 16th Street, in Denver. This was in the 1950s. Later, the Denver Sheriff was issuing concealed carry permits only to friends and cronies of the mayor and city council, and the police were arresting people for brandishing if they could see any part of a gun, and carrying concealed w/o a permit if they couldn’t. In response to that, the state went Shall Issue.
My experience carrying openly is that it is becoming less noteworthy. I do so walking the dog in MT for bears, and in AZ for coyotes.
I recall the drive for concealed carry reform in Michigan.
Michigan was, legally, an open carry state, and through most of the state, that was good enough, and you would see people carrying in rural Michigan, where I lived. But in anti-gun jurisdictions like Detroit or Flint, they'd hit you with a brandishing charge if you made a point of your gun being visible, and an illegal concealment charge if you didn't; There was no winning, regardless of the nominal legality of open carry.
Concealed carry reform was explicitly about stopping that harassment by making the concealment legal, and keeping the cops from even knowing you were carrying unless you had to interact with them.
Even then they'd sometimes try to leverage a concealed gun "printing" into a brandishing charge...
The problem is that the courts are way too deferential to cops in 1983 suits. If jurisdictions got hit with seven refigure judgments for this harassment, it would stop in a heartbeat. It's time to eliminate not only qualified immunity, but also prosecutorial and judicial immunity. The black lesbian cunt who prosecuted these two should be in jail.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/06/missouri-couple-who-pointed-guns-at-blm-protesters-seek-return-of-firearms
I also prefer open carry and legal alcohol, if people can do it responsibly.
But they’re demonstrating their inability to do so in places like Florida and Texas. I mean, it sounds like Abbott wants for it to be legal to shoot people who are openly carrying… so that creates a sort of a shoot-first culture, don’t you feel?
Do you think it’s a good idea for the right to celebrate homicides like the Texas one and Rittenhouse?
Yeah, I see no reason not to celebrate Rittenhouse shooting a homicidal maniac or two, since it was in self defense.
The vast, and I do mean vast, majority DO carry responsibly. Most of the firearms deaths in this country are either suicides, or criminals killing criminals. The former is a human right, isn't it? And the latter is a win-win situation.
The residue of innocent people killed by other people is unfortunate, but not an adequate excuse to violate the rights of that vast majority who aren't guilty of doing it.
"And pretty blue… almost as if gun laws make a difference!"
Ah, that explains the peace and serenity of California.
"Blue" Vermont has had "constitutional carry" since it joined the Un ion.
Hence the focus on gun culture over gun laws. Having been to both, the gun culture in Texas is really different than in Vermont.
It's like Brett said about prohibition. You can have legal alcohol without turning into a frat house. Just, not in the South.
... and yet their votes count as much as your "Informed, intelligent Yankee ass vote" does.
What are the demographics of murderers and victims in those Southern states? Or would like a different question?
Curiously, open carry has gone from rare to really rare in the last few years in greater Boise. I have seen one open carrier in the last year.
Ah yes, those sapphire blue states of Wyoming, Idaho, Utah, Iowa, North Dakota, Nebraska, and Montana.
You are just listing the whitest states in the country.
The link says that the counties with the highest per capita murder rates are counties with low populations (10-15,000). This seems like exactly what you would expect—a few murders in a tiny area will send the rate through the roof, and there enough small counties that, over time, some will be home t some bad crime. Slicing the stats this way seems somewhere between incompetent and disingenuous.
I also feeling like the high-murder counties may not fit the stereotype you’re thinking of.
Yep. The "leader" is Phillips County, Arkansas, a county with just 16,568 people.
and 62% Afro-Amurican, what a surprise!!!!!!!
You're missing the point, Frank. That particular county is too small for that rate to be statistically significant, regardless of racial makeup. The standard deviation on a small population is huge compared to the SD on a large population.
The proper rank-ordering of such statistical measures is not the absolute per-capita rate but the number of standard-deviations above or below the median. But that requires math and people who are good at math don't generally go into journalism.
"But that requires math and people who are good at math don’t generally go into journalism."
Same with people who do social science as compared to hard sciences.
The stats can be very misleading. The urban counties are probably in the top 20 every year, whereas many if not most of those rural counties are probably only in the top 20 once every 20-30 years due a single incident.
Your point on the SD is valid.
Noscitur, the converse would also be true. Thinly populated counties with few or no murders would show unreasonably low rates. Aggregate statistics derived from multiple counties smooth the data. Nothing incompetent or disingenuous about it.
If a criminologist published a paper in a journal of criminology about kidney rejection rates, would your first inclination be to accept it uncritically? I suspect not. More likely, you'd ask why the cobbler wasn't sticking to his last, and why he hadn't at least tried to publish it in a medical journal.
My reaction to criminology studies published in medical journals is, appropriately, similarly skeptical. The CDC has a REALLY bad track record when it comes to gun research.
The obvious confounding variable, as Mr. Ed has pointed out, is survival rates. They should have studied the rate of gunshots, not the rate of deaths from them.
This would be a good point, except the county rates in that link are over a 5 year period. A county would have to have a consistently high score to rank at the top of the overall list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_African-American_population
What do you know? Look what two states are highest by percentage!
"Highest" ??? Probably Colorado and Washington
This article has a map showing violent crime by county and it shows a much different picture. Sure there are some rural counties that are hotspots but Indian Reservations and border counties are heavily represented in those counties.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/crime-rates-by-county/
A couple of observations about that “study” you cite.
1. It is a list of rural counties with high firearms fatality rates. If you know anything about statistics, that should be expected. The smaller the sample size the farther the distribution from the mean. There are many rural low population counties that have ZERO homicides of any kind in a given year. Cherry picking the worst or the best by rate proves bupkis about rural safety overall. This “study” is meant to mislead rather than inform.
2. The county with the highest rate at 55 per100K over five years, Phillips County, Arkansas has a population of only 16K. Framing the rate at per 100K is misleading when the listed counties are mostly closer to 10K. A rate of 6 per 10K over five years is hardly alarming.
3. Phillips County is majority black. Blacks have about five times the firearms homicide rate of whites and higher yet compares to Asians. A study that hides important contributing factors such as this is just propaganda. Considering the source that published this junk, that is unsurprising.
Shirley, you mean "as illegal aliens in Texas".
well Texas is sending their Ill-legal (at Bushwood) Aliens to Chicago
I was sure that some moron would be predicting 'blood in the streets' again but I wasn't expecting it to be the very first comment. Congratulations.
My counter-prediction is that you'll be just as wrong this time as in every prior instance.
You haven't noticed the blood in the Texan streets?
How about the blood on the streets of Chicago?
And, if you are referring to the most recent Texas case add into the mix multiply deported illegal alien.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/federal-judge-declines-block-illinois-gun-law-calls-assault-rifles-particularly-dangerous
Another district judge upheld the same law on the grounds that "the historical tradition is that dangerous arms were regulated, and these are dangerous.
Pure, unadulterated bad faith.
To be sure, it is. I seem to recall that the Supreme court has already explicitly said that you can't ban guns just because they're dangerous, as being dangerous is the actual purpose of guns.
It would be like banning printing presses because they're well suited to publishing things.
So, we have one judge following Heller/Bruen and the other almost ignoring them. Luckily, for the people of IL, the one following the precedent is the one issuing the injunction.
Yes, in this case, it is working out so far. But the larger problem is that there are many hundreds if not thousands of judges out there, mainly appointed by Pedo Joe or Obongo, who simply don't care about Bruen or Heller. And they are hearing other cases and making similar bad faith rulings.
They know that there are no consequences to their malfeasance, and at worst, it serves as a delay tactic. They get what they want, while thumbing their nose at the Constitution.
They're not necessarily thumbing their nose at the Constitution, because Bruen and Heller are both Egregiously Wrong, as will be explained by the Supreme Court once the illegitimate and corrupt justices have been replaced.
They're thumbing their nose at the Supreme Court, which I think is almost as bad, but understandable, given the aforementioned illegitimacy and corruption.
I saw Egregiously Wrong play at Lollapalooza. Terribly over-rated.
LOL. They're egregiously wrong because they stated that the text means what it says? Yet vague references to due process gives you the right to shoot off into your "husband's" rear?
Nope. Heller said “this crap about militias is outdated so we can ignore that” and instead found rights to hunting and armed self-defense in various penumbras. Not particularly originalist, in other words.
Miller was much better. Individual right, but the purpose of the right isn’t so people can go hunting. Is so they’re militia-ready.
Heller is what makes “assault weapons” bans even plausible — they’d be easily unconstitutional under Miller. But you don’t need to carry your AK all over town or keep it loaded in your baby’s crib.
I make that same complaint. Miller, on the way to their pre-ordained upholding of the NFA, (It was after the 'Switch in time that saved nine', that the government would prevail was a given.) at least honestly recognized the scope of the right, they simply used the absence of defense counsel to enable them to pull off a "Nobody told us this thing we're all perfectly aware of, so we're going to pretend it isn't true" ruling. They upheld the NFA on the narrowest grounds humanly conceivable, which could easily have been overturned by a later, less frightened Court.
Then they avoided the whole topic for 68 years, during which the lower courts played a game of Telephone with the ruling, eventually transmogrifying it into something the Miller Court would never have recognized.
Scalia took that ruling and stood it on its head, transformed Tench Coxe's right to "every terrible implement of the soldier" into a right to such sporting weapons as didn't scare the government. And I'm quite sure he knew what he was doing, though he might have thought it was the most he could get Kennedy to sign off on. Still, even Scalia was sure to say "presumptively", (Which only means, "Until we've taken the time to think about it.") and a Court that has to worry less about defections is free to say, "We've examined those presumptions, and find them lacking."
I don't deny that Heller was a bad decision, but your solution to basically read it out is even worse.
Read what out?
Read the 2nd Amendment out of the Constitution.
I just said I thought assault weapons bans were unquestionably unconstitutional if you ignore Heller and look at the text of the second amendment. That's hardly reading it out.
Militia-ready? So machine guns are protected? Even the A-G who wrote the National Firearms Act admitted Congress lacked authority to require registration of machine guns or ban possession. Mr. LEWIS. Now a very brief statement on this subject: Lawyer though I am, I have never quite understood how the laws of the various States have been reconciled with the provision in our Constitution denying the privilege to the legislature to take away the right to carry arms. Concealed-weapon laws, of course, are familiar in the various States; there is a legal theory upon which we prohibit the carrying of weapons-the smaller weapons. Attorney General CUMMINGS. Of course we deal purely with concealable weapons. Machine guns, however, are not of that class. Do you have any doubt as to the power of the Government to deal with machine guns as they are transported in interstate commerce? Mr. LEWIS. I hope the courts will find no doubt on as subject like this, General; but was curious to know how we escaped that provision in the Constitution. Attorney General CUMMINGS. Oh, we do not attempt to escape it. We are dealing with another power, namely, the power of taxation, and of regulation under the interstate commerce clause. You see, if we made a statute absolutely forbidding any human being to have a machine gun, you might say there is some constitutional question involved. But when you say “We will tax the machine gun” and when you say that “the absence of a license showing payment of the tax has been made indicates that a crime has been perpetrated’, you are easily within the law. Mr. LEWIS. In other words, it does not amount to prohibition, but allows of regulation. Attorney General CUMMINGS. That is the idea. We have studied that very carefully. [emphasis added] [Hearings: National Firearms Act, 73rd Cong, 2nd sess. 19 (1934)]
Silly comment. Why would the six Justice majority in Bruen not be legitimate. We’re they not nominated by the President? Were they not confirmed by a vote of the Senate? Were they not old enough?
I didn't say the justices were sitting illegally. I said they were illegitimate. That means not legitimate. For something to be legitimate, it needs to be not only legal but above-board and done in good faith. The Gorsuch / Barrett nominations weren't that.
It's not illegal to have an illegitimate child.
Blame Thomas. Heller left things open for reasonable gun regulations, but Bruen invented a wholly new historical approach to evaluating gun laws that is almost too silly to take seriously. Lower court judges are improvising with the lack of clear guidance that has resulted. Trump judges are embracing the maximalist approach, while other judges are trying to find a path to something slightly less insane.
The Court is eventually going to have to clarify just how absolute it wants the test under Bruen to be applied. It will probably take a lot more murders before they feel compelled to moderate it, though.
As though murder is lawful if committed with a gun? How strange.
The point I'm making is that they will see what their judicial activism has wrought and acquiesce to cutting back the broad rule under Bruen. But it'll take a lot of death to get through to them.
No, it did not leave things open for what you call "reasonable" gun regulations.
Read the opinion.
Hoppy didn't say the ruling left no room for reasonable regulation. He said it left no room for what YOU would call reasonable regulation, which is an entirely different thing.
Correct. Leftists consider anything other than a full ban to every class of person in all circumstances that could be imagined to be "reasonable."
That's not my view, but I wouldn't want to challenge your two brain cells with more nuance than that.
Since that imputes to hoppy a strawman, it was more charitable to assume he was simply mistaken about what the opinion says.
SimonP,
Can you explain why the Second Amendment should be interpreted differently from the way other Amendments are interpreted? I mean, aside from you wanting different results?
The test outlined by Thomas in Bruen is constitutionally unique. It looks nothing like how we treat other constitutional rights.
In Heller, Scalia suggested that gun regulations that restricted the right to bear arms should be subjected to something higher than "rational basis" review, but didn't go far as to suggest the level of review. I think he was very clearly telegraphing that some level of constitutional scrutiny in 2A cases would be required, but wasn't quite prepared to signal that it should rise to the level of "strict scrutiny."
Bruen takes a dramatically different approach, rejecting "balancing" tests being devised by lower courts under Heller, and requiring courts to look to history in order to determine the scope of the 2A's protections. As McGlynn has staked out, an extreme application of this principle requires the protection of bearable weapons of war (and accessories and ammunition suitable for use in war). Whether we can require that the ownership of these weapons be licensed or insured, and whether we can at least stop some people from owning these weapons would also seem to require looking to history, under Bruen.
"The test outlined by Thomas in Bruen is constitutionally unique. It looks nothing like how we treat other constitutional rights."
But that's because the 2nd amendment is uniquely under attack, and not just by legislatures, by the lower courts. In Heller the lower courts were told to take the 2nd amendment seriously as an actual constitutional right. Many of them refused to. They'd claim to be engaged in something like strict scrutiny, but it was actually closer to a relaxed form of rational basis where the government always won.
So in Bruen the Court spelled out for them what strict scrutiny for a real constitutional right actually consisted of doing. That wouldn't have been necessary if the lower courts hadn't been resisting Heller.
So you're saying... they came up with a "History & Tradition" black box as a punishment for lower courts, who couldn't be trusted to do a legitimate analysis?
I mean, it makes as much sense as anything else. Still, quite clearly Egregiously Wrong.
Not a punishment. "Strict Scrutiny for Dummies".
https://volokh.com/2013/03/21/fourth-circuit-upholds-maryland-restrictive-licensing-system-for-gun-carrying/
Yes. As Professor Volokh wrote over TEN YEARS AGO.
They basically said "The government must show that their steps are intended to reduce crime, but they get to determine whether they do, not us."
That's not even rational basis. That's something below it.
"tests being devised by lower courts"
That's why we can't have nice things.
You don't have to go much further than Young v Hawaii 9th circuit en banc decision to see lower court judges were engaging in a campaign of Supreme Court nullification. So they had to have things dumbed down for them to remove almost all discretion.
A good faith effort to actually apply the constitution and Heller would have made Bruen completely unnecessary. Let's review how we got there: NY clings to a law that's completely indefensible post Heller, and state and federal courts cheerlead NY blatant violations of the constitution.
The ninth circuit is another great example, in case after case the district court and appeals court follows Heller, then the en banc reverses and let's California and Hawaii's legislature trample the RPKBA (I like that abbreviation better than RKBA cause it reminds us it's a right of all the people).
The 2nd, 3rd and 4th Circuits did it too. They basically said "Yeah, even if we assume carrying outside the home is a right, the government can deny it to anyone without a special reason and that comports to the 2nd Amendment."
It was a bad faith analysis. They knew it, we knew it, and they knew we knew it.
The Second Amendment is the unusual one. According to Bruen, step one is to ignore the text. Step two is to look at History & Tradition in order to decide the case, which essentially means make up some old-timey-sounding stories to justify whatever outcome you want.
No other amendment works that way.
The text is plain, and they follow the same reading as the Miller court:
"These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. 'A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline.' And further, that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time."
So even the Miller court was clear the RPKBA was not dependent on being in service in the militia and they were expected to show with weapons of war "supplied by themselves" if they ever were called to serve.
I completely agree. How do you get from that to what Bruen was about, that is, carrying your guns around with you wherever you go? That's the mystery that only the History & Tradition aka Make-It-Up-As-You-Go Doctrine can tell.
Well there is that one weird part: “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”
Must be some Christian thing like magi bearing gifts.
In other words, you don't know. It's an emanation, probably.
Because that was the status quo in 1791, except for slaves of course. The gun banners are actually citing bans on slaves being armed to defend California arms laws.
Randal, Step 3 is to lie about history.
Step 4 is to require that within somewhat more than half of U.S. history, no one is allowed to tell the truth about what actually happened.
Step 5 is that within the other half of history, if anyone finds historical examples which embarrass Bruen, those are by definition outliers to be disregarded.
I wish I were making this up. It's much worse than people who have not actually got historical training are likely to understand.
The idea that gun violence is really only a problem for those urban Democrats, or those rural Republicans, is silly; there's too many other factors for the statistics to be probative of anything like that.
No culture warring in here, folks, it's a gun thread!
The usual rule, I gather, is that it's not a "culture war" until Republicans fight back. Kind of like the old joke about the Soviet definition of "peace" being the state of nobody resisting the Soviet Union.
No, it's a culture war when it's about rhetoric and tribalism rather than facts and policy.
The rhetoric that Democratic cities are dens of crime despite strict gun control laws is made up Fox News culture war silliness.
Literally, made up. https://petapixel.com/2020/06/15/fox-news-ran-photoshopped-photos-of-seattle-protests/
Well, Seattle has never had strict gun control laws so that’s erroneous right there, in fact they are pretty loose. Washington doesn’t allow any local firearms laws, and it’s been a Shall Issue state since the early 60’s, and it has been and it still is an open carry state.
I got a friend who owns a bar and restaurant there, he wasn’t quite clear about where it was legal to carry firearms in his establishment. So I simplified it for him “anywhere kids can go you can bring guns”. Kids can’t go in the bar area but can sit at the tables, even where alcohol is served.
I guess he figured out from that point on if I sat at a table at Happy Hour I was carrying.
I wasn’t and won’t indulge in who hit who first childishness.
Your justification for acting badly is always but the libs. Great way to have no integrity. Not great at much else.
"Nonetheless, the state claimed some early restrictions such as those on Bowie knives as historical analogues..."
Seen this in several state's arguments. Wonder who is prividing the script?
If you bother to look at the 19th century laws on “dangerous and unusual weapons” like Arkansas Toothpicks (stabbing daggers) or Bowie Knives (slashing blades) what was banned was going aboard to the terror of the community with dangerous and unusual weapons, terroristic use, not possession or ownership or use in other circumstances.
The state fails to realize there's more an analogous law than simply finding a law that singled out a particular type of weapon for regulation, they also have to show the regulations applied to it are also analogous.
I don't think they failed to realize that, they just hoped for a judge who'd be sympathetic, and let them get away with it given something that looked like an excuse.
Carl_N_Brown, sorry to break this to you, but that language about terrorizing folks has deep roots going back at least to the early 17th century in North America. And those root do not show it being used like you say. More like, "If you let folks behave that way, it is going to make a lot of people nervous."
So require guns be concealed. No terror.
It's certainly refreshing to have a judge who is familiar with firearms issuing an opinion on if the type of gun makes a difference regarding whether or not a citizen may "bear" it. Rather than depend on the hysterical descriptions as provided by the gun-control proponents, he was able apply his knowledge to the arguments presented by both sides.
I still laugh each time I remember the Colorado politician stating that if we outlawed firearm magazines then eventually they would all be used up and gun-owners would no longer be able to fire their guns. That's pure comedy!
Their expertise is limited to third trimester abortions and barebacking dudes.
The trial court docket is at https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66755267/barnett-v-raoul/
The government has already appealed. The appellate docket is at https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67304985/caleb-barnett-v-kwame-raoul/
On a side note to this I am shooting the Northern Illinois USPSA section match later this month in Muskego Wisconsin. It used to be held in Illinois, but they moved the match as most competitor's magazines would be considered illegal.
There are no "Illegal Magazines" only Undocumented ones.
OK, some of the "Reverend" Sandusky's magazines are Illegal (in every State)
Frank
I did think of this judge, and your prior post on this, when the Texas shooter assassinated his neighbors with an AR-15. McGlynn was worried, at trial, about his poor wife needing to defend herself against a gang of black men pounding at her door; but we see now that AR-15s are also very effective at annihilating quarrelsome neighbor families.
I did not expect you to be particularly sensitive to that change in circumstances, and I'm vindicated to see that you have not proven to be.
In a generation, we'll look back on this bizarre experiment with arming the populace with a kind of horror. Law students will wonder how it is that so many legal academics and justices came to embrace this incoherent theory of Second Amendment maximalism that makes it all but impossible to do anything about gun violence, even as we see the death figures tick up (to the extent that Republicans even permit us to know that). This is sheer, utter madness, motivated by an histrionicism over gun rights pushed by careerist politicians and enterprising academics (and gun lobby cash).
I wonder how short an historical vision you have to have, to think a return to the legal status quo over most of our history is a "bizarre experiment"?
I'm not even on SS yet, and I can remember a time when you could buy 20mm anti-materiel guns mail order, Tommy guns, too, take guns as carry on luggage when flying, and HS students took marksmanship classes at school. And you think today's regulatory environment is the natural state of this country, and not itself the bizarre experiment that's drawing to a close.
Did you have school shooter drills, as well? A regular drumbeat of gun violence? Gun violence is currently approaching the levels at which it was at various points we think of as the "bad old days" of the past. Is that satisfactory, in your view?
No, we didn't have those things back at the time. Which shows that the problem is the destructive culture you leftists have provided.
Oh also, why are you leaving out that the shooter in that case was a four times deported illegal Aztec from Mexico?
No, oddly enough when guns were actually allowed at the schools I went to (because the students were either coming from hunting or going to go after school) we had no shooting drills. Nor did we have shootings.
It does make a reasonable person wonder, what changed?
You think we have more school shootings now because students aren't hunting?
He said a "reasonable person," and if your reply is your actual takeaway then I think you are not being reasonable.
Juris was trying to imply an answer to his rhetorical question, without having to "own" it or defend it. I am inviting him to clarify that implied argument by sarcastically taking his comment at face value.
God, keep up, people.
Indeed, Simple Simon, keep up.
He did not say, or even imply, that having students guns in school was the reason there were fewer school shootings.
He made the clear point that despite the presence of guns in the hands of students, there were fewer school shootings.
Your attempt to deflect from that argument by 'misunderstanding' his post and attacking a strawman is a failure, as are your other dishonest attacks on other posters elsewhere.
If you were inclined to honestly argue, you might consider actually addressing the argument made. I doubt you can, though, so I fully expect you to ignore it.
Guns were once fairly common on school campuses, yet shootings were beyond rare. What changed wasn't the presence (or absence) of guns, since school shootings have become common in the era of gun-free schools. So why all of the shootings now, when it would've been so much easier back in the day?
Same at my High School ('60 - '64). In Pheasant season there would be 7 or 8 12-gauges leaning against the Principals office wall, to hunt the cut over corn fields walking home.
Measures of gun violence are on a long-term decline and have been for some decades. The "regular drumbeat" of gun violence is entirely manufactured. Some of it is the Availability Heuristic fallacy - we think things are more common because we hear about them more often and do not adequately control for the fact that shootings that a few decades ago would have been strictly local news are now covered nationally.
Notably, the aggregate rate of gun violence fell as access to guns increased. Yes, there was a small uptick in violence during and after the covid lockdowns. And countries with far stricter gun control regimens saw the same trends.
Even the school shootings today, I mean the real ones, are mostly a copycat phenomenon, caused by the coverage. The media offer anybody who commits one nation-wide notoriety, and then claim to be innocent when somebody takes them up on the offer.
They're also the result of the overprescription of SSRIs, the normalization of porn, sexual deviance, and all sorts of other things.
Liberals have thrown the guardrails off society and they wonder why things are coming apart.
There is some truth to this. Liberals are generally able to control themselves, and they don't realize that not everyone can. Some people need societal forces (religion, fear of punishment, social stigma) to keep them from their naturally sociopathic ways. We call those people "Republicans."
Pedo Joe and Klinton clearly can't control where they stick their shriveled members.
See what I mean? The number of Republicans on this very blog who can't control their repressed exhibitionist urges to publicly depict dicks, butts, and other gay imagery is just astounding. There appears to be an epidemic of closet cases on the right whose main grievance is sexual frustration.
Measures of gun violence are on a long-term decline and have been for some decades.
This just doesn't seem to be true.
Considered pro rata, it may be true that the current spike of violence that we're in doesn't dwarf previous spikes. But like I said - you have to go back to the "bad old days" to find times when gun violence was as bad as it is today. The only difference is, we can't blame leaded gas any more.
The “regular drumbeat” of gun violence is entirely manufactured. Some of it is the Availability Heuristic fallacy...
I can appreciate that the media has found this kind of coverage to be compelling, at least for now, and so is more likely to run with these stories than it was previously. But what you seem to be implying is that the past saw exactly the same kinds of gruesome gun violence we see today, at roughly the same rate. People were just blissfully unaware of it. Is that what you want to be saying? Are you saying we should therefore treat that prior (silent) drumbeat of gun violence as "normal"?
No, I'm saying explicitly that the past levels of gun violence were much higher - and most people were blissfully unaware of it.
And therefore, we should be skeptical of claims that "we must do something now" because, just like with medical treatments, social policy treatments always have side effects and unintended consequences.
A lot of data here, but I'm mostly focused on the first graph, 1900-2006.
https://sites.nationalacademies.org/cs/groups/dbassesite/documents/webpage/dbasse_083892.pdf
Let's supplement that with more recent data, 1990-2023: (Yeah, don't know why they titled it that, their data ends in 2020.)
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/murder-homicide-rate
As you can see, between 1900 and about 1933, (The end of Prohibition!) we had a national murder rate of about 9-10 per 100K.
Then it dropped to about half that for some thirty years, which was certainly not all due to all those young men being in the army.
A bit after 1960 it shot up again, to roughly the same level, and stayed there for another 30 years, and then started a long decline (Unleaded gas? CCW reform? I dono.) which was interrupted by some combination of lockdown induced economic destruction and the Antifa-BLM riots. But it's been dropping again, that seems to have been just a couple year spike, not an end to the trend.
The main difference is that people THINK murder is sky high, because the media work hard at making them think that.
Couldn’t cherry-pick your way to relevant data that supports your position, I take it?
Since the historical trends on gun violence (i.e., not the broader category of “homicides”) does not match the trend you’re choosing to cite – and since I’m inclined to impute to you knowledge of that fact – I take you to be arguing that gun violence does not require any special attention because homicides overall are down. We can afford, in other words, a few more shooting deaths, because we’re net-net in the black, due to drops in stabbing, poisoning, strangulation, etc., murders. Oh, and even better - we can wave away the past couple of years of data because of Antifa.
I don't give a fuck about "gun violence", unless you've got a magical way of resurrecting people who've been beaten to death with a baseball bat, that just happens not to work for gunshot wounds. I care about "violence", period, because dead is dead.
Now, you're making a claim about specifically firearms homicides. I was so kind as to supply information from 1900 to 2020 on homicide in general. Where are YOUR graphs? I somehow missed your link. To get you started, here's 1993-2018. It mirrors the over-all homicide trends.
"This just doesn’t seem to be true."
What a perfect response Simon, truly perfect. Absolutely draws the lines around your intellectual limitations, the defects in your ability to actually analyze and assess data, and the patent bad faith you exhibit in everything you say here.
You can imagine it as not true, but the FBI crime statistics demonstrate that it is.
Over the last 35 or so years, gun violence has declined despite a tremendous surge in owned firearms. Only in the last few years has it ticked upwards again.
This, despite the coming about of 'plastic' pistols, 'ghost guns,' and so-called 'assault weapons.'
Remember it well. I wanted to buy a 20mm Finnish anti-tank rifle. My very normal father said no for two reasons. 1. I had no money and Dad did not think it was a good present. 2. There was no place to shoot the monster safely in nearby states.
Yeah, that latter was the issue for me: Our backyard was only a half mile deep, which wasn't nearly enough to be safely shooting that sucker.
But, sheesh, would it ever look good over my fireplace mantle today, if I had gotten it.
Mail order guns sales have been illegal since the Gun Control act of 1968 (there is an exemption for guns made before 1896) Only "Tommy gun" (its a "Thompson") you could get through the mail would be a semi-automatic version. You can still order the non registered gun parts through the mail, Ordered a complete AR-15 upper a few years back, had to pick it up at the UPS office as I missed the delivery, box had broken open, the UPS clerk pulled out the Upper, which is 90% of an AR-15, should have seen the crowd freak out,
OK, it was Atlanta, so nobody freaked at all,
Frank
"Mail order guns sales have been illegal since the Gun Control act of 1968"
What can I say? I'm a geezer.
Technically, I think the mail order sales are still legal, but you need to take delivery at a gun dealer, who completes the paperwork. At least, that's how it worked for my Calico.
"...you need to take delivery at a gun dealer, who completes the paperwork."
Absolutely correct. Just picked up my Colt 1903 Pocket Hammerless at my local Mom & Pop FFL.
One exception is the CMP Program that will ship your M1 Garand and ammunition direct to your home or office.
Is the CMP still shipping actual firearms, though? I expect the supply of qualified firearms is pretty scanty at this point.
Sure, scroll to the bottom or search for 'available'.
"Texas shooter "
Man illegal in the county [deported 4 times!] illegally owns weapon and illegally shoots it off in yard before illegally killing people.
Lots of laws violated here. Yet you want more laws! Enforce the ones we have maybe?
I think the conservative media's emphasis on the shooter's immigration status is hilarious, because it shows how stupid conservatives are.
I mean - if only he had been deported a fifth time! Then he sure wouldn't have come back, like he did the other four times! How can you make that argument with a straight face? Doesn't this very example suggest the limited use and arguable futility of relying on repeated deportation processes as a meaningful immigration law enforcement mechanism?
Nope! Not to you. All you can see is a dirty foreigner who ought to have been rounded up and kicked out of the country at the first opportunity.
And, yeah, sure, we can enforce the laws prohibiting murder. And, uh, I think we generally do. Do you think the guy shot his neighbors because he thought a "woke" DA would choose not to prosecute him for murder? We already punish murderers to the maximum extent possible, with life sentences or the death penalty. How do we enforce our way out of chaotic, unpredictable gun violence like this? Your only answer is to let it happen, and clean up the mess afterwards.
Put in prison for illegally re-entering after deportation, then deport.
If he returned, as a convicted felon he would clearly be in the no-gun database, so he would have had no gun to use.
I believe the conservative argument is with a secured border he wouldn't be able to get back in 4+ times. I don't agree, but it's certainly an argument one can make with a straight face.
I thought the Mayorkas assured us that the border is secure.
it certainly is, Mexico guards their side pretty well
Yes, deportation alone, is meaningless. It needs to be coupled with prison time for illegal entry, prison time for hiring illegals, renting to illegals, selling groceries to illegal, and virtually anything else.
It also needs to be coupled with correctly interpreting the 14th Amendment to remove birthright citizenship.
It also needs to be coupled with amending the 14th Amendment modify the Equal Protection Clause. Then we can talk.
"prison time for hiring illegals,"
I'd offer illegals a substantial bounty for reporting anybody who hired them, payable in their home country, out of the assets of the one who hired them. That would pretty effectively make them unemployable, wouldn't it?
"It also needs to be coupled with correctly interpreting the 14th Amendment to remove birthright citizenship."
Birthright citizenship is fine, it just needs to be properly limited to people lawfully here. "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,", after all.
"...it just needs to be properly limited to people lawfully here."
Green card holders or also people on visas?
I could agree with the first but not the second.
Green card holders. Technically, pregnancy tourism is already illegal, according to State department visa guidelines, so anybody who comes here on a tourist visa to have their baby IS an illegal immigrant so far as I'm concerned.
The US is basically unique in granting citizenship to anybody born on US soil regardless of how their mother got here or what their legal status was at the time. Even born in a plane that happens to be passing through US airspace on it's way from one place to another outside the US.
It would be worth amending the citizenship clause to put that in black and white, though.
It would be simple to not let pregnant women enter the U.S. in the 2nd or 3rd trimester, or if you do, require that they leave within 14 days or whatever their stated vacation is. That way, if they overstay, they're illegal, and no birthright citizenship.
As a previously-deported illegal alien, the shooter was committing a crime by possessing a gun in the first place, and by being in Texas at all. Perhaps stepping up enforcement of those laws would be a good starting point for promoting public safety, versus restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens in constitutionally-dubious fashion?
I didn't see that part of the story until today and it made a big difference to how I reacted. Like the mass shooting in Texas where it turned out the government had failed to properly record the shooter's disqualifying conviction.
In Massachusetts it's illegal to fire a gun outdoors within 500 feet of a building, except at gun ranges licensed by the local government.
is it also illegal to murder 5 peoples?
How does that make elitists feel good about themselves?
Why do you only pick on.the Second Amendment?
Why not the other Amendments as well?
https://archive.md/mgil3
I fail to note the difference between you and then-CHA Chairman Vincent Lane
Hawaii is paying Saul Cornell $750/hour to produce expert declarations. Gun banner cash (although ?Hawaii taxpayers are on the hook).
Sounds like the Court, or at least Barrett, is starting to lose patience with the lower courts' resistance, and is going to take a more active hand in things.
Justice Barrett Gives Illinois Officials Until Monday to Respond to Challenge of “Assault Weapons” Ban
That's a pretty aggressive schedule. Has anyone seen what Barrett actually said in the order?
Barrett is pretty hardcore on the 2nd amendment. Here's hoping she can drag the rest of the Court into hearing this case on an expedited basis; I suspect that even the Justice who are less enthusiastic about the 2nd amendment are getting tired of the lower courts giving them the finger.