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Second Amendment Roundup: Persons Aged 18-20 Are Entitled to Carry Firearms
Young adults are included in “the people” protected by the Second Amendment.
Several decisions have been rendered recently on whether persons aged 18 to 20 have a Second Amendment right to carry or purchase a handgun or any firearm. I'd like to highlight the March 31, 2023, decision of U.S. district judge Katherine Menendez (D. Minn.), which is one of the most thorough decisions to date on the young-adult carry issue. The case is Worth v. Harrington.
Judge Menendez granted summary judgment to the 18-to-20-year-old plaintiffs who were ineligible for carry permits under Minnesota law. While the Supreme Court held in Bruen that carrying a handgun was within the plain text of the Second Amendment right to bear arms, the state argued that persons under 21 were not considered to be part of "the people" when the Amendment was adopted. Worth rejected that argument for four reasons.
First, "the people" includes "all Americans who are a part of the national community," which includes persons eighteen and older. That phraseology originated in the Supreme Court case of U.S. v. Verdugo-Urquidez (1990), which equated the meaning of "the people" in the First, Second and Fourth Amendments. Worth agreed with the textual analysis in Firearms Pol'y Coal. v. McCraw (N.D. Tex. 2022), which invalidated the Texas law requiring permit holders to be at least 21.
Second, neither the Second Amendment nor any other provision in the Bill of Rights sets an age limit. But the Founders knew how to set age limits when intended – the Constitution requires minimum ages for eligibility to be a Representative, Senator, or the President.
Third, "the people" as used elsewhere in the Bill of Rights includes persons eighteen and over. The First and Fourth Amendments are not interpreted to exclude 18-to-20-year-olds.
Fourth and finally, Founding-era militia laws in every colony and early state, and in the federal Militia Act of 1792, required males 18 and over to provide their own arms and to enroll in the militia. "And the fact that the Second Amendment itself discusses the 'well regulated militia' means the age-range of militia laws is of particular relevance to the reach of its protections."
While not relevant to the original understanding of the Second Amendment and thus not mentioned by the court, the Twenty-Sixth Amendment, ratified in 1971, prohibits denial of the right to vote to persons eighteen years of age or older. The demand for that right originated in the World War II generation and was consummated by the Vietnam War generation. The thought was that you are old enough to vote if you are old enough to bear arms in war. By the same token, you should be considered old enough to bear arms in peacetime.
As to the state's arguments, Judge Menendez noted that while the duty to be armed did not in itself create a right to be armed – the right was a pre-existing one – in context it certainly implied that those in the militia had such a right. And no, recognition of the right for 18-year-olds doesn't imply that toddlers and those adjudicated mentally unfit have the right. Finally, while the age of majority was 21 for some purposes at the Founding, eligibility to take an oath was 12, to receive capital punishment was 14, and to get married for a female was 12.
Before considering historical analogues, Worth offers a few reflections on methodology. While "judges are not historians," Bruen preferred "a historical inquiry" because means-end scrutiny presents "a greater threat."
Moreover, Bruen directs judges to resolve controversies through the adversarial process, "based on the historical record compiled by the parties." (That's why, as this author has argued, courts should not appoint expert witnesses to do that.) Judge Menendez cautions that courts with the same issue could reach different conclusions not based on a complete, accurate record, but on expert witness availability or the abilities of counsel before the court.
But post-Bruen experience has seen litigants on both sides presenting full records to the courts. For decades, litigants on the anti-Second Amendment side have been well-financed and supported, often pro bono, by some of the nation's leading law firms. Litigants on the pro-Second Amendment side have benefitted by decades of commitment to what they believe to be an important constitutional right. The Worth decision itself reflects superior lawyering in presenting the historical record and superior judging in resolving the issue based on that record.
Judge Menendez next weighs in on the ongoing debate about which original understanding counts – 1791 or 1868? Bruen wrote that "we have generally assumed that the scope of the protection applicable to the Federal Government and States is pegged to the public understanding of the right when the Bill of Rights was adopted in 1791." On that point, see Mark Smith's "Attention Originalists: The Second Amendment Was Adopted in 1791, Not 1868."
But NRA v. Bondi (11th Cir. 2023) decided that historical sources from Reconstruction are more probative of the Second Amendment's scope than those from the Founding. Per Worth, that contradicted Bruen's indication that 1791 is the critical date. Moreover, none of the historical records in Bondi, which upheld Florida's ban on sale of firearms to persons under 21, would support a ban on persons under 21 carrying firearms. That even included laws from Reconstruction and later.
Worth considered and rejected two expert reports proffered by the state. First was the declaration of Saul Cornell, who argued that persons under the age of majority had "no unfettered right" to bear arms because Yale in 1800 and two other colleges prohibited students from possessing firearms. But as Judge Menendez notes, "none of these proposed analogues appears to be the product of a legislative body elected by founding-era voters, but instead they are rules established by the institutions' boards of trustees or other leadership."
Not to mention that few people attended higher education in those days. Such policies say nothing about the original public understanding.
Municipal ordinances restricting the discharge of firearms, which generally applied to all persons, also give no support to the carry ban. There simply were no Founding-era laws restricting 18-to-20-year-olds' carriage of firearms.
As Worth notes, "Professor Cornell testified that he was aware of no such laws, but deemed the inquiry a 'bad question.'" To "understand the Second Amendment," he argued, one must "canvass a variety of historical topics," and not adopt a "discredited 'tunnel vision' approach to historical analysis." Glittering generalities anyone?
But Bruen instructs that when a restriction addresses a social problem that has persisted since the 18th century, the lack of a similar historical restriction is evidence that the modern one may violate the Second Amendment. While it could be "sound to consider the context Professor Cornell referenced, the Court cannot discern how to incorporate that context into Bruen's mandated approach to analogical reasoning." Under Bruen, it is "laws on the books" that matter, not a historian's opinion about abstract social mores.
The court ended the historical discussion by brushing off Reconstruction-era analogues as too far removed from the Founding, not to mention that none of them prohibited carriage of firearms by 18-to-20-year-olds.
The other expert report submitted by the state was that of Professor John J. Donohue, who argued that the "neurobiological and behavioral development" of "young adults" caused them to commit higher rates of violence, and thus justified limitations on their access to weapons. Should he have included young adult females in that generalization? No. And did he mean to suggest that a large percentage of young adult males commit acts of violence? They do not.
But such issues don't matter, for as Worth decided, "whatever the evidence may reveal about the wisdom behind enacting a 21-year-old requirement for publicly carrying a handgun, such analysis belongs to a regime of means-end scrutiny scuttled by Bruen." The days of judges imposing their subjective value judgments about public policy through intermediate scrutiny are over.
So it's back to basics for the courts. Judges decide questions of constitutionality. They do not delegate that authority to "experts" who think that the Founding-era understanding as expressed in actual laws is irrelevant, or that a constitutional right takes second place to good social policy. Judge Menendez's decision in Worth is an exemplary model of how to decide Second Amendment cases.
The bottom line is that the state of Minnesota was enjoined "from denying a permit to carry a pistol from an otherwise-qualified applicant who is at least 18 years old." The state's motion to stay the injunction is pending at the time of this writing. As cases from different courts percolate, the ultimate decision will come from the Supreme Court.
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“ U.S. district judge Katherine Menendez (D. Minn.)”
Really? Are you really going there?
Go where? To the District of Minnesota?
To elaborate on Toranth's comment, in this context, "D." is an abbreviation for District, indicating that Judge Menendez sits in the District of Minnesota. It is not the same as "(D-MN)".
Right, because the Supreme Court has ruled there are not Democratic or Republican judges (technically it was the Chief in an ex-officio ruling, not a holding of the court).
Well, that’s a relief. I don’t recall having seen that kind of reference before on this blog, but I’m glad I was wrong about this.
This was a solid opinion by Judge Menendez. For some reason, many on the left see the 2nd Amendment as a lessor right which can be applied and modified at will. They have recently adopted the same attitude in regards to the First. Public opinion as to whether 18 to 20 year-olds retain the rights recognized by the 2nd, should have no bearing on any decision by the Courts. The law is what is applicable and the people have the right to keep and bear arms.
Case closed.
Well put!
That's because it's a ok right with bullshit extremist adherents who have helped flood the US with deadly weaponry and mass shootings.
"For some reason, many on the left see the 2nd Amendment as a lessor right which can be applied and modified at will."
Just spitballing here, but it might have something to do with the 40-50,000 dead people each year.
Suddenly the militia clause is noticed again, after having been erased in 2008. If “militia” is allowed back in, will “well-regulated” slip in with it?
Just the tip
I think there would be rather little controversy if a state required adult males of militia age to regularly turn out for militia drills, and to provide their own firearms during such drills, as long as they allowed adult females to participate voluntarily.
You and I have different ideas as to how that would be received. But it's an idea that should be tried. Females, of course, would not be able to opt out.
I should clarify: I foresee rather little constitutional controversy as to whether such a requirement is a permissible exercise of government power. I suspect it would be an unpopular policy.
13th Amendment????
Yes, the Thirteenth Amendment is a thing. No, it does not clearly speak to this question.
See Arver v. United States, 245 U.S. 366 (1918), or compulsory community service as a condition for a high school diploma, among other items. These are generally held to qualify neither as "slavery nor involuntary servitude".
Like a lot of forced labor schemes, they get by under the "We, the judiciary, like this particular sort of forced labor." exception.
It's hidden under the period, in fine print.
That's not it at all. The Thirteenth Amendment was intended to reach involuntary servitude schemes akin to slavery. It wasn't intended to reach various forms of compulsory public service. E.g., nobody enacting it thought that it banned jury duty. Nor did they think it banned the military draft (a military draft actually was necessary to fight the war that secured it!). And no, nobody thought it repealed the Militia or Raise and Support Armies clauses of the Constitution or made the Militia Act unconstitutional.
So there's an issue of how far these principles go (e.g., community service, roadbuilding), but it's absolutely clear that the Thirteenth Amendment does not bar all compulsory public service schemes.
“it’s an idea that should be tried”
Well then:
Eddie Eagle programs—safety around firearms for children too young to handle them—in elementary schools.
Marksmanship and fieldcraft programs in later elementary and junior high schools.
The law of self-defense---when and where one can use lethal force in defense of self, others, or property, when and where one cannot, what can one expect from police, prosecutors, courts, and defense counsel---in junior and senior high.
The syllabi exist, and are maintained as laws and rulings change. Ed schools would have no logistical problems incorporating them into their curricula to start graduating teachers who can teach it.
Let the States lead.
Women get no Choice???? That'll go over well.
I did a substack post on treating the Second Amendment's militia rhetoric seriously.
And yes, I have found talking to conservative gun rights types that they tend to hate this. To use a bit of political theory, the modern gun rights movement is extremely libertarian ("I should be able to do what I want") whereas the Second Amendment text is communitarian ("you have this right so that we can discipline and train you and compel you into service to defend the government").
https://dilanesper.substack.com/p/we-cant-control-guns-but-we-might
The problem isn't requiring members of the irregular militia to turn out for training. The problem is making it a requirement to exercise a Constitutionally guaranteed right.
I'm sure many would complain from both sides of the aisle. I suspect that the "conservative gun rights types" you mention are more upset about militia call outs and training being a condition of exercising the right.
The problem isn’t requiring members of the irregular militia to turn out for training. The problem is making it a requirement to exercise a Constitutionally guaranteed right.
That is an utterly circular argument. The right is constitutionally guaranteed but it is also clearly associated with a well regulated militia. Requiring training, etc., is simply the legislature ensuring that the militia will indeed be well regulated. Refusal to participate is a strong indicator of a gun owner who doesn't give a crap about defending the government, a gun owner who rejects his militia responsibilities and thus is voluntarily giving up his right to keep and bear arms.
No. Not really. Heller effectively severed that tie.
It's not about defending the government. It's about defending your community. But let's say you're right and militia membership is a requirement for owning arms. Since the unorganized militia is every able bodied male (and courts would probably include females today) citizens between the ages of 17 and 45 then every single one of those people should be able to own an M4, the current service pistol, and standard capacity magazines for those weapons. The law governing the unorganized militia in the US does not specify any training requirements. It would require an act of Congress for training to be required and states would not be able to add additional requirements. Is this really the argument that anti gunners want to put forward?
. Requiring training, etc., is simply the legislature ensuring that the militia will indeed be well regulated.
Miliitia is not a creation of any legislature. Militia predated legislatures.
But you largest hurdle. Why is the 2cnd amendment REQUIRED. To prevent the Govt from taking away the weapons of the very army NEEDED to protect the country.
There was no standing army, in fact a huge division existed if there should be a standing army at all. Since history showed tyranny enforced by the army was the norm.
In essence, according to your theory, the 2cnd prevents the govt from disarming the govts army. The People are afforded no protection from the govt at all.
Problem is Dilan is that first you assume that the 2nd amendment has a meaning that most Americans, and the Supreme Court rejects.
Can you list any other amendments that protect communitarian rights?
Your meaning pretty much conforms to Stevens Heller Dissent, not to the majorities decision, nor does it conform to Miller's reading of the 2nd, as flawed, and narrow, as that decision was.
Do you also follow Steven's assertion that the "right of the people" in the first amendment is a collective right? At least Stevens eventually allowed that to cabin the 2nd amendment within the bounds of his reading it would have to be modified to say:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms when serving in the Militia shall not be infringed.”
It wasn't "erased." The militia clause served the same purpose in Scalia's opinion as it seems to be doing here. The fact that "the militia" was intended to include the entire male population, who would ordinarily expect to be ready with arms in service of the militia, supported the argument that the right was an "individual" right.
Why would we find this a problem? Remember, it's the militia that's supposed to be "well regulated", not the People, or the right.
And what did "well regulated" even mean, long before the rise of the regulatory state, with its bureaucrats attempting to minutely dictate the details of how people live?
"Well-regulated in the 18th century tended to be something like well-organized, well-armed, well-disciplined," says Rakove. "It didn't mean 'regulation' in the sense that we use it now, in that it's not about the regulatory state. There's been nuance there. It means the militia was in an effective shape to fight."
So, how does the right of the People, (NOT the militia!) to keep and bear arms contribute to a militia that's able to fight effectively? That's the question you have to ask.
It does so by assuring a large pool of citizens who already own firearms, and are already familiar with their use when called up for militia service. You don't have to train them up from scratch, or scrounge up arms for them in an emergency, they show up already armed and with some skill.
So, if you're really concerned about the preface of the militia clause, rather than gun control laws, you'd be doing things like mandating firearms ownership, and making marksmanship a mandatory course in HS, right along side civics.
I wouldn't make it mandatory for anyone to be compelled to govt service.
However, I would make it MANDATORY for all gun owners to complete training (to include laws for legal usage, carrying, transporting, storage, maintenance, marksmanship - basically the same training for military or law enforcement).
And also require annual recertification.
Good luck with that.
The vast majority of civilian gun owners already meet or exceed the standards you're calling for. In addition, many of us were military or law enforcement (and therefore, by definition, had all the training you're asking for). You are "solving" for a non-problem.
Many states now require high-school students to perform "community service" as a condition to graduate. States previously required people to turn out to help build roads. Militia laws back to the Founding Era required citizens to participate. There is ample precedent for compelling people to turn out for government service.
There is no such precedent for compelling people to be trained and tested to a professional level for something they do as a hobby. Suggesting that such training and testing be mandatory shows bad faith and unseriousness.
" There is ample precedent for compelling people to turn out for government service."
Post 1865 when the 13th Amendment took effect?
I am not sure. This page mentions that "a number of states" made it a "general requirement", although prior to the 13th Amendment. By the early 20th Century, the general demand was for paved roads, which require more expertise and specialized skills, and population densities made it reasonable for government to pay for that specialization. I haven't found any specific discussion of how much of that change was due to legal changes rather than to funding and demand changes.
A current example of mandated public service comes from Reagan's welfare reforms:
But that's a mandate in order to get a privilege, living in subsidized housing. Not to exercise a right.
a mandate in order to receive alms.
I administered public housing for 5 years and am not familiar with this requirement -- and am damn sure that I didn't see it enforced.
Jeez, is there any field you aren't an expert in? How about Nuke-ular (HT Jimmuh Cartuh) Power Plants??? Whats the scoop? Are they really just a bunch of Homer Simpsons one slip up away from a Chernobyl??
Yes.
Yes. Per The Highway Heist and other history books, road corvees (sp?) were common in rural areas into the late 1800s, possibly the early 1900s. Been a while since I read this book, not going to try and find it to get any more exact details.
And perhaps we should extend this to the far more lethal motor vehicles. Let's make everyone have to qualify under police/military defensive driving criteria and re-qualify annually -- we'd save a lot more lives, but at what cost...
One other thing -- the elderly grandmother in a wheelchair doesn't need to qualify on the 50 meter rifle range in order to defend herself at 5 *feet* with her shotgun.
No problem requiring people to requalify periodically for a motor vehicle operator license.
That's a privilege, not a right.
And that would be because driving a car (on the government's roads) isn't a right. Note that you don't need a driver's license to own a car, or even to drive it. Just to drive it on the government's roads.
A 12 year old can own a car, (My brother inherited one years before he was old enough to drive. Sat in the barn for years.) and a guy without a license can do donuts in his backyard all day long. The privilege being licensed is driving on government roads, not "driving".
Last "Drivers Test" I took was 1990 when I moved to Florida, consisted of driving around the mall parking lot. First one in California 1978 a bit more demanding, had to parallel park between 2 beat up CHP cruisers. Last time they only checked my vision, and no speeding tickets since 1988 (I speed, just never get tickets), last Accident 1996 rear ended someone in stop and go traffic checking my phone (no Cell phone, one of those ridiculous "Car Phones" like Mannix had)
Frank "I'm an excellent Driver"
If you require citizens to be trained with arms, you're advancing the cause of a citizenry with arms training.
If you require citizens to be trained with arms in order to own them, you're simply attempting to burden exercise of the right. And you will, as some of the states fighting Bruen are doing, just keep ramping up the amount and expense of the training required, until it sufficiently discourages people.
And remember: It's not a privilege, it IS a right, which means that you can't condition it that way, any more than you could require a course in speed reading before people could buy books, or a 20 hour seminar on theology before people could join a religion.
If you require citizens to be trained with arms in order to own them, you’re simply attempting to burden exercise of the right.
This makes zero sense. If I require a doctor to have medical training, I'm not trying to burden the exercise of her rights- I am trying to advance the cause of a medical corps with medical training.
You most certainly would be burdening her right to be a professional doctor - if there was such a thing.
You can argue that it is justifiable, but don't try to pretend it isn't a burden.
I think you are missing the point.
To use your medical care analogy, the 2A isn't about ensuring that medical care is available - it is about ensuring the government can't prevent medical care being available. It's not about saying doctors need a license to be in the business of providing health care - it's about whether the government can forbid having bandages in your closet.
Now, governments don't have a history of banning ownership of bandages. If they did, the founders might well have included an amendment protecting medical supplies. But - in the founders direct recent experience - governments had tried to deprive people of arms. And so they included an amendment to make clear that wasn't going to be an option for the government they were creating.
To use your medical care analogy, the 2A isn’t about ensuring that medical care is available – it is about ensuring the government can’t prevent medical care being available.
Actually it's about ensuring that there is a well regulated militia to defend the government, because thankfully, the framers told us that.
You guys are just being anti-textualists because you want to reject your responsibility to be disciplined and regulated and to defend the government when called into service.
"Actually it’s about ensuring that there is a well regulated militia to defend the government, because thankfully, the framers told us that."
I'm more familiar with the framing that the purpose was to defend the people - whether from outside threats or their own government.
Reading it as 'the government has the right to raise an army if it chooses to' seems a bit strained. Not only is that covered elsewhere in the constitution, but you don't generally refer to powers granted to the government as 'rights'. The right to a jury trial doesn't mean the government can try you by jury if it decides to - it means you can insist on a jury trial whether the government likes it or not. The BoR is about what the government can't do, not what it can.
The key point here is that they thought that a well regulated militia was necessary to the security of a free state, not just any old state. But there’s no reason to suppose the people running the government will always want the state to be free.
It has to be remembered that you don’t write a bill of rights to facilitate things the government wants to do. That’s ‘powers’. You write one to prevent the government from doing things it shouldn’t do.
Censorship. Religious oppression. Forcing people to host soldiers in their homes. Stealing property. Compelling people to testify against themselves, railroading them in trials with preordained outcomes, torture.
You always have to read an amendment with an eye to what wrong it seeks to prevent the government itself from committing!
The evil the 2nd amendment was written to prevent was the deliberate discontinuance of the militia system, the government not merely deciding not to organize a militia, but to try to make raising a militia impossible.
The analogy I use: If you trusted the government to fight fires, you’d authorize it to maintain a fire department. But if you thought the government might very well end up run by arsonists, what would you do?
You’d guarantee the right of the people to own and train with firefighting equipment, so they could throw together a volunteer fire department even if the government wanted it to all burn to the ground!
The 2nd amendment isn’t primarily about facilitating a militia system, the government has ample powers if that’s what it wants to do. It’s about preventing the government from making raising a militia impossible.
Because the people just might have to raise one themselves to fight the government, if things when terribly wrong!
when you type in all caps its the same as shouting, which people do when they don't have the facts on their side.
Charles Whitman had all sorts of firearms training, so did Lee Harvey Oswald, and a fair number of the "Mass Shooters" (Has a "Mass Shooter" every committed a "Mass Shooting" at Mass?? In Mass??)
I know, your training would include laws, legal usage, you know, so we know where it's legal to murder kids at a School,
I've got some "Training" for you (see how you don't have to shout when you have the facts on your side?)
"Infringed" look it up in your Funk & Wagners,
Frank
"...basically the same training for military or law enforcement..." Cool. Can we get literacy tests for the First Amendment? And qualified immunity for gun owners since they would have the same training as cops? We should hold them to the same standard, right?
Look at what the "Regulator Movement" in North Carolina was in the 1760s -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulator_Movement
We can debate what it really was and really was about, but Wiki states that it was "an uprising in Provincial North Carolina from 1766 to 1771 in which citizens took up arms against colonial officials, whom they viewed as corrupt."
The "regulators" took up arms against government officials.
“The “regulators” took up arms against government officials.”
As did the Minute Men a few years later. Do you have a problem with that?
Actually, yes -- my family was on the other side, in New Hampshire which managed to peacefully resolve its disputes with the King -- except for the Massholes on both sides....
Much of Maine's Kennebec River Valley --- then wilderness -- was settled by refugee Loyalists, but I digress...
My point is that they called themselves "Regulators" and hence that indicates what the word meant THEN....
You gotta keep em' regulated
I find it laughable that you guys think that because well regulated meant "disciplined" (which is somewhat true), that means that the government didn't have the power to impose lots of restrictions on gun owners. Just what do you guys think "discipline" means?
Certainly not what you think it means in this context.
Your willful misunderstanding is laughable.
You haven't provided any evidence that I was wrong. Just invective.
Congress has enormous power over the regulated militia, they choose not to use the power because it's unpopular. They could require everyone (not just gun owners) 18-45 to enroll in the organized militia and come out for drilling and training every weekend.
We've had conscription before and we could have it again for militia training, that's all in Article 1.
But Congress won't try to regulate the militia because they want to keep their jobs.
What they don't have the power to do is tell us we can't have guns, or which guns we can own, because the 2nd amendment puts that out of bounds to Congress and the states, as surely as the first amendment keeps them from telling us we all have to go to church on Sunday.
I find your post laughable - "discipline", whether talking about punishment or training (ignoring other meanings) has to do with the behavior of individuals, and not with the abstract right of gun ownership.
Of course, that's even if you happen to be one of those silly people that think that a vague introductory phrase is actually a restriction on a right.
And of course, the various governments DO have the power to impose lots of rules on gun owners - just like they have the same power to do so on public speakers, politicians, or travelers. All they have to do, to restrict any of those, is provide sufficient justification - something you don't want to be bothered with.
He also seems to be ignoring the 'well-organized, well-armed' part of the posted definition.
A 'well regulated' clock means a clock that keeps accurate time, not a clock with its own chapter in the CFR.
Congress still has all the authority it needs to regulate the militia under Article 1:
"To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress."
They could enroll us, 18-45, in the organized militia and have us all out there drilling every Saturday rain or shine, if they chose to.
But what they can't do is disarm us, organized or disorganized.
How many peoples registered their "Assault-Style Weapons" in New York?? some 44,000 out of the estimated million or so.
Because I can do math, that's 4.4%
and that's in a supposed "Blue" State
Frank
While it could be "sound to consider the context Professor Cornell referenced, the Court cannot discern how to incorporate that context into Bruen's mandated approach to analogical reasoning." Under Bruen, it is "laws on the books" that matter, not a historian's opinion about abstract social mores.
That may be the stupidest approach to history it is possible to posit. Which is not to say it is inconsistent with Bruen.
That approach purports to make mandatory one of the earliest-recognized, most-delusive, and most-prolific sources of error in historical reasoning. It is standard practice in graduate history seminars to raise that issue with beginners, and disabuse them systematically.
It is all too easy to find admonitions from bygone lawmakers or administrators proclaiming that this or that law should be written this way, to admonish a social ideal, and enforced to the contrary, for practicality. Sometimes the admonition is for stern probity, with enforcement adjusted toward laxity. Sometimes it is the opposite. Unsurprisingly, such contrasting cases ought to matter to anyone concerned about what actually happened in the past. Instead, the Bruen Court says, rule such considerations out.
Also, social class is a stumbling block. British law in the 17th and 18th century—and even in some instances into the early 20th century—knew little of uniformity, and expected less. Laws got passed which read on their face today as universally applicable, when the entire society at the time understood by lived context that they applied only to privilege a tiny minority. A vast disfranchised class consisting of wage earners of all kinds, apprentices, ordinary seamen, indentured servants, lesser craftspeople, agricultural laborers in various classes, and many other groups were strangers to those laws of privilege, and to most notions of rights as well.
That group of legally disabled persons comprised the vast majority of society. Without historical study in context, it can be impossible to see that reality behind the plain text of laws which speak in universal terms, but were never expected be read that way.
And that just gets a start on a giant catalogue of other ways to go wrong if that rule is followed, to read the text of laws as evidence of historical practice. Law enforcement today is practiced more uniformly than it was previously. In the past, resources, human and material varied from place to place more than they do now. Whole counties might be bereft of anyone with sufficient education to function as a magistrate, or the time to do it. Which meant the laws' lesser concerns might go all but totally unobserved some places, but be punctiliously enforced in others. And that was expected. A law judged by custom appropriate for enforcement in a town might be disregarded as a nuisance in the countryside. Often, that was not regarded as a defect in the law, or even as an inconvenience, but instead as a practical advantage for making it work as expected. Of course, not a jot or a tittle to commemorate that reality shows up in the text of the law.
The historical problem is, what residents of the past knew about practical legal variations they gathered from lived context, mostly by experience of local case outcomes (where there were any), instead of by study of legal texts. Which is what historians have learned they must do too, if they want to understand what actually happened in the past.
Omit that caution, and the worst kind of historical malpractice inevitably follows. Do it that way deliberately, and every pretense to find value in originalism will end up discredited and made a laughingstock. There is no legitimacy in a legal decision based on a practice to write fiction on purpose.
And alas, any disregard for the past which defeats originalism will undermine purported textualism comparably. The problem there is that insight into textual meaning depends critically on understanding the context of creation for the text in question. But historical texts which survive into the present arrive in today's archives with that context of creation left behind and forgotten. That context of creation might be recoverable, with prospects varying case by case, but in any case recoverable only by inference from other historical survivals.
Absent that, every text gets reinterpreted continuously in present context, as it ascends through time, from each former present-time, to each successive present-time. It takes only a generation or two of that process to obliterate from memory all context of creation, and attach instead some different understandings built out of bits and pieces of succeeding contexts, with today's context inevitably predominating.
Thus, with today's subject of gun control. The Bruen Court, incurious about original context of creation, and announcing a rule to ignore it, demands a reading of legal text which it can only interpret in light of present-minded suppositions about antique sentences. That is a process where historical insight plays no part. The Court then purports to find from that irrational process a meaning intended by a bygone society—a society which had no comparable notion of gun control at all, and was thus incapable to make any contribution to our modern gun control debates, one way or another. From there, the Bruen court concludes founding era people thought about gun control, and ruled it out.
That never happened. Anyone who wants to do it can prove to their own satisfaction that it did not happen. But it takes some time. You have to go to historical archives, and read until you encounter situations where you suppose a gun control topic might come up. What you will discover is that time after time, without exception, right when you think historical insight into gun control is about to make an appearance, the historical text wanders off in some unrelated direction. At first it seems uncanny. Why are these historical people so consistent in ignoring the gun control issue which is staring them in the face? After repetition it becomes expected.
What you are looking for does not come up, because the concept you are searching for did not exist at the time. What past people never thought about, they never wrote about. And that turns out to be the case not just for gun control, but for practically every modern topic which would-be originalists and textualists suppose historical texts can illuminate.
So to fill that absence, would-be originalists and textualists substitute modern context, in which the sought-for topic at least exists. That opens the way to a show of reason, applied over a sleight-of-hand substitution of the present for the past. When you do that, just like any professional magician, you must enforce rules against looking too closely into the process. And that is what the Bruen rule to interpret history only by the texts of laws is all about.
No matter how many times you invoke "context", your profusely idiosyncratic rambling will not change the actual Constitution (as amended).
"That group of legally disabled persons comprised the vast majority of society."
In England, yes -- but not in America. That's a distinction that is often missed, yes there were property requirements for voting but that largely meant that the head of the household voted for the family.
Look into Jefferson's writing on the Yeoman Farmer -- and he believed that the frontier would always exist. Look into his correspondence with Adams.
lanthrop -
Only the privledged class in england were entitled to the priviledges &
Of course the british tried to confiscate guns prior to the revolutionary war.
Perhaps thats why 2A states the "right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed "
The purpose of what became the Battles of Lexington & Concord (although most of it was actually fought in what is now Arlington) was to confiscate a brass cannon stored in Concord (which memory is the British instead destroyed in situ), and lead shot which (memory is) went down wells to be hidden, and powder. Can't remember the status of that...
This was a gun grab.
" social class is a stumbling block . . legally disabled persons comprised the vast majority of society"
The founding of America intended to remove class as a consideration for access to the law's protections. Titles of Nobility and so forth. The tiny minority of supposed nobles keeps trying to draw back to themselves their special protections, and too often they succeed.
I agree 100%, although it’s been said more succinctly:
“Leaning together Headpiece filled with straw. Alas! Our dried voices, when We whisper together Are quiet and meaningless As wind in dry grass or rats’ feet over broken glass In our dry cellar”
But not by a judge, once a judge says it is not as meaningless as when a historian says it. Historians can be reviewed, but not reversed (Bellesiles notwithstanding).
"Litigants on the pro-Second Amendment side have benefitted by decades of commitment to what they believe to be an important constitutional right. "
We've also benefited from having the historical record on our side. That's a huge advantage.
concur
to believe the right was limited to when serving in the militia as Stevens claimed in Heller , you would have to believe there was some historical record of discussion of limiting the right to when serving in the militia.
The absence of any historical record discussing a limitation points to a major weakness of Stevens analysis of the historical record.
The expectation that a group can lose a culture war yet maintain control of some important ground they held during a battle seems unreliable.
True believers, of course, embrace and celebrate unreliable positions,
See you down the road apiece, clingers.
Kirkland -- be careful what you ask for because you might just get it.
The tide in the culture wars has turned, and transgenderism is going to be your Operation Barbarosa, your Waterloo.
Your side has spent the past 40 years chopping down all the trees in your pursuit of the devil, and now that the devil is turning on you, what tree will you be able to hide behind? Be scared, be very scared because the right is far more dangerous than your side ever was because we can delegate. Where the left has to have a committee meeting in order to decide to go to the bathroom, we can simply tell someone to "go do it."
The 1950s were limited by principles which your side have destroyed -- case in point the ACLU lawyers weren't disbarred for suspicions of being Communists (which many actually were). But now that you have brought in political qualifications for barment, don't be surprised to see that used against you in the future.
And just imagine if we have another Great Awakening -- you worry about theocracy *now* -- you won't like what you see then...
Fuck off, homo groomer.
That escalated quickly!
You and the Volokh Conspirators deserve each other, hoppy.
And you will spend the rest of your lives complying with the preferences of people like me -- unless you figure Dr. Ed is right about the right-wingers finally turning that tide in the culture war (because childish superstition and religious nonsense somehow become more, rather than increasingly less, popular in modern America).
Carry on, clingers. So far as bigotry, superstition, and backwardness could carry anyone in today's (and tomorrow's) America, that is. How far you do guys expect that to be?
Oh look! Troll offended by another troll!
The 10 amendments in the Bill of Rights are multifaceted. Most of them enumerate several separate rights, like the First listing the rights to speech, assembly, the right to publish, and freedom of religion.
The Second lists the right of individuals to be armed, and the militia clause recognizes the states authority to train, arm, and equip their militia.
The Bill of Rights was also passed as a package with the Tenth providing a hierarchy of rights of individuals over powers and authority granted to governments.
Memory is that there was an even dozen but only ten passed.
And some argued that none of these amendments were necessary as these rights were so clearly established that no one would ever challenge them. With a few exceptions (eg. third amendment) they were restating the rights of English nobles which in the US would extend to everyone.
Or mostly everyone...
The second amendment proposed in the Bill of Rights eventually passed as the 27th Amendment. (The first proposed amendment would have set minimum and maximum sizes on the House of Representatives, but the current population would make those ranges very wide: between 200 and 6600 representatives.)
[S]ome argued that none of these amendments were necessary as these rights were so clearly established that no one would ever challenge them.
The Founding Fathers made that argument, but the Anti-Federalists pointed out that the Necessary and Proper Clause (which allows Congress to do what it believes is needed for carrying out its powers) could easily be interpreted to allow Congress to subvert any or all of the rights of individuals and so a Bill of Rights was needed. Considering McCulloch v. Maryland (1819), with its very broad reading of that clause, the Anti-Federalists have been proven right.
concur -
A well regulated militia, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
Shall not be infringed refers to the two separate and distinct rights.
consistent with the historical record discussing the right for common defence and self defence.
Looks like you got the Reader's Digest Version of the 2A
mine says
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Frank
Frank - concur that your second sentence is the correct version of 2A.
"being necessary to the security of a free state," describes the reason for the first of the two rights protected in 2A.
fwiw, its the only part of 2A that can be removed and still retain the integrity of the amendment.
Both Stevens version and Scalia's version of the militia clause are incorrect. Stevens version requires a huge distortion of the english language and the historical record to claim its only a protected right that exists when serving in the militia. Scalia error is that the militia clause describes the purpose of the individual right. though in Scalia's defense, the issue of the collective right was not before the court.
The protection of both the militia and the individual right is the most natural reading of 2A.
“and the militia clause recognizes the states authority to train, arm, and equip their militia.”
It does no such thing.
Article 1 clause 16 already did that, reserving to the States: “the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress.” And gave Congress, not the States, the power and responsibility to arm the militia.
The only function of the militia clause in the 2nd amendment is to assert why it is the business of the federal government to protect the right to keep and bear arms.
There is nothing that people all over the political map assert that the 2nd’s militia clause does that isn’t already in Article 1. It’s only purpose is to explain why the right to keep and bear arms shall not, and should not, be infringed.
Here's a Minneapolis Star Tribune editorial on Judge Menendez's decision:
(You can almost see them foaming at the mouth.)
Attorney General Keith Ellison is right to appeal gun ruling
That should be the Minneapolis Red Star Tribune.
True. And the Volokh/Stormfront Conspiracy is a great place at which to advance that point!
Remind me again why 18 year olds cannot purchase alcohol?
Good question.
But the short answer is they left that up to the legislators of the 50 states. Well that is until Congress threatened to cut off highway funds to any states that didn't raise the age to 21.
There is even an amendment for that too:
Section 2
The transportation or importation into any State, Territory, or possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby prohibited.
Because it adds to the effects of the Opiates/SSRIs/Amphetamines they're already taking
The federal government bribed state governments to pass laws prohibiting that, as part of the National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984.
This'll make it easier shoot up a school or two.
You've been predicting blood in the streets for decades. You've been right so far ... Let me double-check ... precisely never.
Stomping the bigoted, gun-fetishing shit out of losers like you in the culture war has been and will continue to be enjoyable and important, Rossami.
Now be nicer, or maybe your betters will stop being so magnanimous as the culture war advances and your opinions become even more irrelevant in modern, improving, diverse America.
Open wider, clinger.
Is that a threat?
The age of majority for all rights should be set at whatever age is considered appropriate for elective surgery.
Does that include Genital Mutilation?
Fourth and finally, Founding-era militia laws in every colony and early state, and in the federal Militia Act of 1792, required males 18 and over to provide their own arms and to enroll in the militia.
This would suggest to me at least that the purpose of this clause and the purpose of the amendment was that individuals who could be called upon to be part of a State Militia would have the background to take part. There is nothing in the amendment otherwise to suggest that individuals have the unfettered right to own and possess firearms or other weapons without any reasonable regulation imposed.
...and you would be wrong.
Can Professor Halbrook explain why, if his theory is correct, there was a constitutional amendment to lower the voting age to 18? Since citizen voting is also a clear constitutional right under his theory, it was just as obviously unconstitutional to prohibit citizens aged 18-20 from voting as if as was to prohibit people 18-20 from keeping and bearing arms.
Did people just enjoy the sheer fun of a purposeless constitutional amendment just for the heck of it? What was the point?