Today in Supreme Court History: February 10, 1967

2/10/1967: The 25th Amendment is ratified.

Comments

[apedad]

25th Amendment: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-CONAN-1992/pdf/GPO-CONAN-1992-10-26.pdf

I hope we never have to invoke Section 4.

Even Trump didn't approach Sect. 4 consideration.

[Krayt]

As with Trump, the infirmity must be so bad as to get buy in from his supporters. Thay didn’t happen, and it won’t happen with Biden.

[Frank Drackman]

Whistle past the graveyard much??
haven't heard much from Stuttering John Fetterman lately, he must really be working hard studying all of the Senate rules/bylaws, proposed bills, constituent complaints,

Frank

[Mr. Bumble]

..from his hospital bed. Seems he had a recent "event".

[Krayt]

We are all whistling past the graveyard, every time one party turns the levers of government against political enemies. Both parties are lousy with it, both in spirit and letter of the law.

[Mr. Bumble]

Who are the "principle officers" in section 4?

[SMP0328]

Principal officers = the Cabinet

[Dan Schiavetta]

It is unquestionably true that Trump was not able to exercise the powers of his office, but that is not the situation that concerned the framers of this Amendment. What we forget today, but which was fresh in their minds, is the frantic effort to save JFK's life after he was shot. What if he had survived, but only as a vegetable? Or with only rudimentary mental powers?

Nobody foresaw that we would have a President who did not understand our Constitutional system, did not know what the President does, what Congress does, what the judiciary does, and made no effort to learn once he got into office. Or who would be so clearly immature, impulsive, and so easily manipulated. Fortunately for the Republic he was lazy and had a short attention span. People who worked with him have confirmed what we already suspected, and are on record as to his nation-destroying orders (or even world-destroying, in the case of North Korea) which his subordinates fortunately ignored.

[apedad]

Just FYI, Section 3 has been voluntarily invoked three times.

It was first invoked in 1985 by President Ronald Reagan before he underwent surgery.

President George W. Bush invoked Section 3 twice — in 2002 and 2007 — when he was anesthetized for routine medical procedures.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Apedad -- Reagan did it more than once.

It was invoked when he was shot -- chaotically invoked, remember Al Haig "I'm in command"? I don't think that one was voluntary -- it was too much of a cluster firetruck to have been...

I believe it was invoked a 2nd time when he had followup surgery for the shooting, and at least once more for routine colon surgery.

[apedad]

The 25th was not used when Reagan was shot.

"After much debate between members of the Cabinet, the 25th Amendment was not invoked. President Reagan regained consciousness that evening and continued his duties."

https://reagan.blogs.archives.gov/2021/01/08/whos-in-charge-the-25th-amendment-and-president-reagans-assassination-attempt/

[SMP0328]

Section 3 of the 25th Amendment was invoked four times. The last invocation was on November 19, 2021, resulting in Kamala Harris being the first woman to possess the Presidential powers (although not the office, as she was "Acting President").

[Mr. Bumble]

Go back to big breasts. The President who is threatening to bring about "nation and world destruction" with his orders is the current occupant of the office.

[Dan Schiavetta]

Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (decided February 10, 1947): upholds against Establishment Clause and Due Process attack statute allowing reimbursement of parents for costs of busing to both public and Catholic schools (if you wonder why "bused" and "busing" don't have double s's, remember that there is a word "buss" which means to kiss -- OT, but in my view any racial segregation situation would have been improved by replacing "busing" with "bussing")

Borden's Farm Products v. Ten Eyck, 297 U.S. 251 (decided February 10, 1936): not denial of Equal Protection for New York to permit milk dealers not having "a well advertised trade name" to undersell competitors. The dissent, by the "Four Horsemen", seems convincing: "Here appellant differs from favored dealers only in that it possesses a well-advertised brand, while they do not. And solely because of that fact, the Legislature undertook to handicap it and thus enable others profitably to share the trade. There is no question of unfair trade practices or monopoly. By fair advertisement and commendable service, appellant acquired the public's good will. The purpose is to deprive it of the right to benefit by this and thereby aid competitors to secure the business. This is grossly arbitrary and oppressive."

Oklahoma v. United States Civil Service Commission, 330 U.S. 127 (decided February 10, 1947): upholding against Tenth Amendment attack United States Civil Service Commission order pursuant to Hatch Act withholding highway funds from Oklahoma because it would not remove member of its highway commission despite admitted violation (he violated it in a big way: he was the chairman of the Democratic State Central Committee)

Milk Wagon Drivers Union of Chicago v. Meadowmoor Dairies, 312 U.S. 287 (decided February 10, 1941): Court could not review state court's finding of fact as to violence and so sustains injunction against picketing despite Fourteenth Amendment attack (union was protesting dairies outsourcing deliveries to vendors who did not observe workplace standards)

American Federation of Labor v. Swing, 312 U.S. 321 (decided February 10, 1941): decided the same day as Milk Wagon Drivers, but here reversing on First Amendment grounds state court decision that picketing beauty shop for refusal to allow unionization is against common law of state if no direct dispute between employer and employees

[Dr. Ed 2]

As I recall, the AP Style Manual accepts either spelling with a preference for "busses."

Buss -- Buss Bar -- is an electrical term for a bar with multiple screws where you can connect numerous wires together. For example, your home breaker box has a neutral buss where all the white wires are connected together -- although the second "s" is getting dropped as of late.

Buss is also a trade name for fuses, which is drifting into generic usage.

[Dan Schiavetta]

Thanks. I have a vague memory of somebody using it in that sense. It could be when I was renovating our new crisis center location and the electrician was pointing things out to me. This would have been 1985 or so.

Now, thanks to you, I have an image of an interracial couple kissing a fuse box and getting electrocuted.

[Krayt]

Which is the origin of the modern phrase computer bus.

Omnibus "for everyone" -> bus service (Blaise Pascal, yes, also the computer guy) for a network of vehicles transferring people around -> electrical buss bar, a block with a whole bunch of wires in it for distribution -> computer bus, same thing but transferring data.

The Internet is for everyone!

[John F. Carr]

Highway funding politics has changed since the case cited. Motor vehicle owners send many billions of dollars in taxes to Washington and a huge bureaucracy has sprung up to manage the return of funds to the states where they came from. If the DOT wanted to enforce the law I would be reporting mountains of violations and they would in turn cut off highway funds. But they don't want to, and they are not under any obligation that I could get a writ of mandamus to enforce. Cutting off funds is the nuclear option. If there are no more funds to distribute the people who distribute funds are out of a job. They don't threaten to withhold funds for any reason you think would be important. They threaten it when some administrator gets a bee in his bonnet. Most recently, when New York's self-promotional advertising signs offended the FHWA division administrator.

Has anybody seen a state-maintained handicapped parking sign in Connecticut recently? The legislature passed a law saying the wheelchair had to be in italics but the federal government and an international standard says it has to be in roman. US DOT was waiting to see if Connecticut DOT followed state law or federal law. (See https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/resources/interpretations/2_09_111.htm)

(I am late to the keyboard today but I have a kosher dishwasher if I get my rabbi to bless it as such. I am not Jewish. I do not have a rabbi. I did not know until very recently that kosher dishwashers were even a thing.)

[David Nieporent]

I'm sure that last comment was mostly tongue in cheek, but on the off chance there was any seriousness to it: (a) kosher status is not like holy water; a rabbi blessing something isn't what makes it kosher; and (b) strictly speaking a "kosher dishwasher" isn't exactly a thing. There are two issues: whether dishwashers (and other appliances) are suitable for Shabbat; and whether the dishwasher has become contaminated by contact with non-kosher foods. There are also dishwashers with two compartments, to keep dairy and meat separate, but that doesn't inherently make a dishwasher kosher or not.

[Dan Schiavetta]

I still find such distinctions strange, even after all these years.

[wolfefan]

Two dairy related SCOTUS cases on the same day!

[apedad]

Ooof, not sure I'm on board with the Oklahoma decision.

The Hatch Act covers FEDERAL personnel (with some exceptions like the Pres., VP, etc.

This was a state employee.

[Dan Schiavetta]

The state highway department got federal funds, which I suppose gave the U.S. Civil Service Commission jurisdiction.

[apedad]

Yeah, I saw that too but school and police departments receive fed. funds too.

But that cannot mean Hatch applies to all teachers and law enforcers!!!

[Dan Schiavetta]

Interesting question. Thanks for bringing it up.

[Dr. Ed 2]

I'd love to see the admin part of the case -- was there a DoT referral to the Civil Service Commission? And what was the language of the funding regs?

Anything involving teachers would go through ED, police likely through DoJ -- and it's what their OCRs decided to do that would be relevant.

[Dr. Ed 2]

On second thought Apedad -- what about when teachers or police are lobbying for a new school or police station -- and the related 2 1/2 override?

I've often wondered about that....

[Dr. Ed 2]

The other thing is that it is the Feds seeking to terminate the federal funds -- there well may have been some explicit clauses in funding regs that the Hatch Act apply.

Also, is there a difference between someone who has authority to disperse (spend) the Federal funds, and a mere state highway employee (e.g. civil engineer)?

[Krayt]

I wondered if, given the modern emphasis on a clear description from Congress on how funds may be withheld, such that states can exercise an option to not do it and understand the money that will be lost, how up to date was that old decision.

[Dr. Ed 2]

If you are asking what I think you are, ED-OCR's enforcement of Title IX serves to answer it -- and I don't believe that any recipient has lost Federal funding in the recent era.

ED-OCR opens an investigation and then -- essentially -- gives the institution a chance to mend its ways and sin no more.

I'm not sure if OCRs even existed before LBJ and that may be why the Civil Service was the one yanking the funding. You'd have to go through the archival CFRs to see what the regs were at the time (good luck) and then what they are now.

Education funding is something I am somewhat familiar with -- highway funding I am NOT.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

If a 25th Amendment dispute ends up in the Supreme Court, the amendment isn't working.

[Dan Schiavetta]

My old girlfriend (well . . . ) was from a family which competed with the Bordens in the early days (upstate New York). They lost out. Ironically, or perhaps not, she had huge breasts.

[Mr. Bumble]

How is a simple statement of fact inarticulate?

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2023/2/9/23593672/sen-john-fetterman-remains-in-hospital-is-undergoing-tests

[Frank Drackman]

The oppression Peoples of Southpaw-Ness suffer in a World designed for Right Handers.
1: from little league, not allowed to catch, play any infield position except the most boring one, First Base (which Righties also get to play)
2: From High School through Med School, those stupid folding desk tops, designed for Right Handers, that you take umm, only unimportant tests like the ACT/SAT MCAT/ASVAB(nobody hear knows what that is without Googlign) National Boards, heck even the Anesthesia Board exam was with those same stupid right handed desks.
3: The most important task in Anesthesia, putting an endotracheal tube into (duh) the Trachea, and not the Esoph-a-Goose, I have to do with my non-dominant right hand, because all of the laryngoscopes are made for Righties,

and that's just the big ones,

Frank "Did I S-S-S-S tutter"

[Mr. Bumble]

Sexist pig.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

I hear there’s a girl from the Borden family. She’s single. And very sharp.

Update: I see someone beat me to the joke.

[Mr. Bumble]

Please be so kind as to direct me to how you think the comments work. Is there a special "Queen's" rules edition?

[Dan Schiavetta]

Before I posted that comment, I considered whether it would have been acceptable as a quote from her prior (female) lover. My conclusion was "yes". Though looking at it again I probably should have posted it as an invented quote from her.

[Krayt]

Sexist bull.

[Sarcastr0]

Sexist pig.
Get the fainting couches!

The white supremacism and those who say the 19th Amendment was a mistake don't bother Mr. Bumble, but this? This is beyond the pale!

[Frank Drackman]

Oh, yeah,
those "Blue Books" they used to require for some tests in College??? (lets see, English Lit, Calculus, Physics, Organic Chem and one Biochem course) back when the only Computers were the Tandy's some of the Nerdy Math professors had,
Try writing out a Hoffman Degradation mechanism/Derive Newton's 2d law, Solve Integral by Least Squares) left handed without smudging, and, no, I didn't get extra time for being a Lefty, (didn't ask, and if I had, would have been laughed out of town on a rail)

Frank "Lefty"

[Mr. Bumble]

Thank you and I apologize. Apparently you're right that I have a problem following comments. Wish VC would add a "replying to" header in the replying comment.

[Frank Drackman]

How "Ironic" (dontcha think?) that your slam on me for being inarticulate (Me? how many "Nome Sane?"s can your typical NBA player fit into one run on sentence??)
wasn't understood, because apparently,
you're inarticulate,

Frank "Nome Sayin'??"

[Mr. Bumble]

Elmer?

[Mr. Bumble]

Apparently they are. From wikipedia:

Genealogy

Borden was distantly related to Robert Borden (1854–1937), Canada's Prime Minister during World War I. One of his great-grandchildren was Gail Borden, an American figure skater in the 1932 Winter Olympics. Another notable relative is the infamous Lizzie Borden from the Fall River murders. Sir Robert, Lizzie, and Gail Borden (founder) are fourth cousins, all descended from John Borden (b. 1640), the son of Richard from Headcorn, Kent, who immigrated to the United States aboard the ship Elizabeth and Anne in 1635.[42][43]

[Frank Drackman]

Do you have receptive aphasia?? (no, you don't, just garden variety stupidity)
because I explained pretty clearly the problems with being a lefty in a Right-Man's world. Much more reverent than someone's Great Great Great Great Great Grandfather was a slave. There's plenty of Afro-Amuricans playing short stop, third, catching and second base, how many Lefty's (Lefty's can be any race!!!!)

Frank "flipping you off with both middle fingers"

[Mr. Bumble]

Piss off fuctard and on your way out get a sense of humor.