The Volokh Conspiracy
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Title IX and Sex-Segregation
It may be permitted, but that does not mean it's required.
When we prohibit "discrimination" what do we normally mean? It is that the prohibited criteria (race, sex, religion, age) should not be considered. Two people applying for a job, one male and one female; the decision should be made without consideration of either person's sex (assuming that sex is not a bona fide occupational qualification or BFOQ).
The BFOQ is an example of when we make a specific exception to the general rule that a prohibited criteria should not be considered. Another (unwritten) exception would be the "heightened scrutiny" applicable to certain kinds of presumptively unconstitutional discrimination by state actors under the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. So states can provide contracting preferences for certain racial groups if the preferences meet the requirements of "strict scrutiny." These exceptions are permissive, not mandatory. A state agency can provide contracting preferences, but generally speaking, it is not required to do so.
As I pointed out yesterday, Title IX has some explicit exceptions (e.g., for father-son and mother-daughter events). These exceptions are permissive. The statute permits sex-segregated housing, but it does not require it.
One could argue that under principles of expressio unius, we should not imply any unwritten exceptions. The Supreme Court has not opined on this question, but the consensus among lower courts is that Title IX also permits sex-conscious decisions that meet some form of "heightened scrutiny." (Curiously, this consensus derives from the Supreme Court's opinion back in Bakke that Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, generally viewed as the model for Title IX, only prohibited race-conscious decision-making violative of the Equal Protection Clause. My understanding is that at least one Justice asked some questions about the correctness of that interpretation in the college admissions cases argued this past Halloween.)
One possible interpretation of Title IX is that schools receiving federal funds cannot limit any sports teams to one sex or another. That is certainly how we interpret Title VI, which precludes federal fund recipients from discriminating on the basis of race. Schools cannot have separate sports teams for different races. But even after Title IX was passed, people seemed to agree that schools receiving federal funds should be able to have sports teams segregated by sex.
There were two theories about why this should be so, each with somewhat different consequences. One was that women were behind in sports because of past discrimination and needed some time and training to catch up. (This was, curiously, the position of the National Organization of Women, at least as relayed in a letter by then-HEW Secretary Caspar Weinberger to President Ford.) A second was that men were bigger and stronger by nature and, accordingly, that women could not compete head-to-head with men. As time has passed, and the effects of past discrimination become more difficult to discern (especially among young high school and college athletes), the second theory has become more popular.
Separate sports teams for females have been held to meet heightened scrutiny: permitting opportunities for females to participate in sports is an important or compelling interest, and separate sports teams on which males are ineligible is the only way to achieve that goal. This usually arises in the context of a male suing to play on a female team in a sport (e.g., field hockey) where there is no male team available. More recently—just a few weeks ago, in fact—it came up in a case of a trans female seeking to play on female sports teams in violation of West Virginia law.
But, again, meeting heightened scrutiny means only that schools receiving federal funds may provide separate sports teams that exclude males. By itself, it does not mean that teams open to everyone violate Title IX. More generally, norms of non-discrimination are not usually deemed violated just because a required or helpful talent is not evenly distributed between males and females. As I noted yesterday, a school can sponsor a chorus of tenors and basses without violating Title IX even though few if any women would qualify.
Note that when we permit segregation of males and females, it becomes more difficult to identify a case of individual discrimination. Rather, discrimination then results from treating one sex as a whole better or worse than the other, e.g., having fewer restrooms for women.
If a school receiving federal funds decided to require one person from each sex to use the restroom designated for the opposite sex—perhaps as an effort to sensitize the persons involved to the difficulties of being a member of the opposite sex—it is hard to call anyone so treated a victim of sex discrimination. Sex discrimination usually occurs when one is treated differently because of sex. Under this hypothetical, the designated restroom switchers are not being treated differently from someone of the opposite sex; they are being treated exactly the same as someone of the opposite sex. They are using the restroom designated for the opposite sex. While they are being treated differently from members of their own sex, that is not sex discrimination any more than paying one white employee more than another for doing the same job is race discrimination.
The same holds true, I believe, if the designated restroom switcher is a trans male or female. Assume that Pat is a trans male and that a trans person's sex is the same as gender identity. Pat being forced to use a restroom designated for females is not being treated differently from most people whose gender identity is female; Pat is being treated exactly the same as those individuals. Of course, if Pat's "sex" is biological sex (female) rather than gender identity, then Pat is being treated differently from those whose biological sex is male. But so is every other person whose biological sex is female.
Of course, there is discrimination going on when a trans male is required to use a female restroom: discrimination based on transgender status. The trans male is being treated differently from cis males (whose sex at birth was male and who still identify as male). But to make that into "sex" discrimination, one would have to show that "sex" includes not only biological sex and gender identity, but also transgender status, and that may be a more difficult hill to climb. At first glance, at least, transgender status is as much a "sex" as "convert" is a "religion." Remember that in Bostock, the Court assumed that "sex" in Title VII meant only biological sex. It could do so because there was no segregation going on there. The Court specifically refused to address whether sex-segregated bathrooms or locker rooms violated Title VII.
Does Title IX prohibit schools receiving federal funds from requiring trans females to compete on teams consisting primarily of males? Not unless "sex" in Title IX is read to include transgender status. If "sex" in Title IX is understood only as one's current biological sex or gender identity, then it does not. Of course, discrimination on the basis of transgender status might violate the Equal Protection Clause for state-run schools, but that is a separate question.
So perhaps Title IX precludes permitting trans females from competing on female teams, as some have argued. That argument depends on Title IX being understood not simply as permitting separate sports teams for biological females but requiring them—that is, precluding biological males from competing with biological females. We will look at the administrative interpretations of Title IX that have led to that conclusion tomorrow.
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"Sex discrimination usually occurs when one is treated differently because of sex. "
Like when one sex (males) are required to register with selective service and the other sex (females are not?
Um, yes. Were you trying to make some point there? Nobody denies that it's sex discrimination. The only question is whether that discrimination satisfies intermediate scrutiny.
On what basis should scrutiny, intermediate, strict or whatever enter into this. It's blatant discrimination based only on sex.
This is some drivel. Although there may be some overlap in the athletic ability of men/women in sports, the reality is that women simply cannot compete with men in sports like boxing, football, baseball, soccer, hockey etc. They just can't. So, in reality, if high schools/colleges have one team where everyone can compete, the reality is that there will not be a single woman playing (other than maybe a kicker here and there or maybe a hockey/lax goalie here and there).
Of course, schools recognize this, and women's/girls' sports have grown up. So if Title IX does not require gender-segregated teams, then what you're saying is that schools can treat what female sports teams there are in a second-class manner. That's obviously wrong.
Title IX was an act of congress.
The courts are called upon to adjudicate common squabbles between parties which are governed by Title IX.
But when it comes to major interpretations of intent, at some point perhaps Congress should be the clarifying body; instead, that institution sits idly by allowing the judicial branch to apply its own biases to a law written two generations prior.
A functional Congress should want to wrest this power back from the courts; but then I answer my own question here.
From a real-world policy perspective, there are three major arguments against having M2F transgender students play on female sports teams:
■ In most sports, biological males have a very significant size and strength advantage over their female competitors which can rob girls and women of opportunities to compete fairly and win, obtain scholarships, and have other advantages
■ In contact sports such as football, boxing, wrestling and even basketball, there is a very real danger of serious and possibly permanent physical injuries to biological girls and women - yes, it has happened
■ Forcing biological girls and women to shower and change clothing with a M2F biological male violates their right to sexual and bodily privacy - yes, it has happened
See, e.g. A Major New THIRD Argument Against "Female" Trans Athletes
https://bit.ly/3Hu1WN2
Stupid spammer.
Hey now, that's none less than the father of potty parity.
(Still teaches at GWU, in all seriousness. He's a bit unconventional, and his website definitely could use a refresh from its original still-moderately-cool-in-the-90's design.)
His link goes to a spam site.
A spam site that is trying to get me to... read the article excerpted in the above comment, which ends with a link back to the author's own website, and which appears to be word-for-word the same article he tweeted when he first wrote it? I'm not quite seeing the issue.
Oh wow, when I clicked from my phone the first thing I saw was “eTradeWire” and it had all the marks of a spam site so I closed it right away. I mean, top of the fold is spammy trash, but after another review based upon your comment, I see that he linked me to some trashy wire service with the article, probably as part of some SEO link building strategy.
I can’t edit those comments to take my statements back.
Bullets 1 and 3 are reasonable. Bullet 2 does not fly. Biological boys and men are at identical danger of "serious and possibly permanent physical injuries". That's the nature of contact sports.
True enough, although the range of potential injuries may differ.
Not really true. The danger of injury in contact sports is closely related to weight and also weight difference. Two 100 pounders colliding are less likely injure to two 200 pounders. OTOH, the collision of a 200 pounder and a 100 pounder puts the lighter at far greater risk. School and college aged men outweigh similarly aged women.
So why do we allow female cops?
Same reason we allow them in the Military, Political Correctness. Try finding a Split-tail Veteran who didn't have a Stress Fracture at some point of their training. That's who I want fighting the Chinks in the next Wah.
Also the same reason that PD’s used to have minimum height requirements.
"Biological boys and men are at identical danger of “serious and possibly permanent physical injuries”
You seem to have misunderstood point 2.
The argument is not the females generally have a greater risk of injury in contact sports.
The argument is that females competing against males in a contact sport have a greater risk of injury than either females competing against females or males competing against males in the same sport under the same rules.
Now that argument may be wrong, but you asserting that it is wrong does not establish that.
I believe that girls are at more of a risk of concussions.
I am skeptical that there is a significant difference in injury risk for girls playing against girls vs boys playing against boys, but if you can cite something to support that I'll take a look at it.
Most women's sports do not really allow physical contact for a reason.
Yep; men's lacrosse is a very physical sport, while women's lacrosse is a non-contact sport.
That's frequently given as the stated justification for why girl's/women's sports aren't full contact. However, simply stating it is not evidence that there is any real basis to it.
It's like that compact car driver that rear ended my SUV last year. (The exit lane was backed up onto the highway, and he was looking at his phone.) My car could still be driven, but needed some repairs. His was totaled. The weight difference makes a huge difference in who gets injured in a collision.
Maybe that's why there's such a big push for the fat acceptance movement. Notice how it's mostly fat ugly woman demand we beautify them?
Wow, you hate everyone.
Yep.
I had something similar happen, though at the stop at the bottom of the off ramp not at the top. I pulled forward to better see cross traffic and the driver behind me assumed I was going and rear ended my when I stopped.
My class III hitch went through the other vehicle’s grill. and my SUV didn’t have more than cosmetic damage.
"The weight difference makes a huge difference in who gets injured in a collision."
I suspect that he being moving also was a factor -- I don't know why but I've always seen more damage in the vehicle that does the rear-ending than the one that is hit, even if similar sizes.
No they are not. Even if you account for size women vs men results in a lot more injuries for women than men vs men. There is a baseline physical difference then there are also the differences in competitive intensity, put them together and it's like tossing a big average HS player in the NFL.
"Forcing biological girls and women to shower and change clothing with a M2F biological male..."
What sport is that?
The restroom hypothetical reminded me of the court case asking whether a bisexual manager going after men and women equally was responsible for sex discrimination in the workplace.
No, he was responsible for sexual harassment in the workplace
Right. See the 84 Lumber Case.
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/ma-supreme-judicial-court/1056120.html
What I don't understand is how universities can have special programs/scholarships/etc for women in STEM while not also having the exact same things for men in Education.
Stem is 90%-95% male, and Education is 90%-95% female -- while they don't have to do either, how can they do one without the other?
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
Derp.
Every campus is majority female now as is. Seems that there is no justifiable reason for ANY benefits for female students.
Sometimes, I think we shoot ourselves in the foot by taking such issues to court. Instead of decades of litigation, instead of legions of high priced lawyers, have Congress amend the law to clarify the word sex.
Congress' abdication of responsibility is the weakest point in American government.
The fact that they haven't clarified it after all these decades suggests they are happy with the plain and obvious meaning of the word. Couple that with the countless failed attempts.
Wouldn't matter if they did, the post modernists would change the definitions again to whatever they needed at the moment, even if flatly contradicted by their stance a moment ago. Sex is well defined, the leftists lie and conflate terms and gibberish to create their fantasyland and they drag the sane among us into it against our will.
"Assume that Pat is a trans male and that a trans person's sex is the same as gender identity."
Yeah, and why exactly should we make that latter assumption, which happens to be the exact point of controversy, and the whole game, set, and match?
There is something exceedingly tedious about this topic. One can admire the fine legal reasoning, the cautious, careful deliberation, and all the fine-tooth combing through each and every permutation, but in the end, it all seems ridiculous and pointless.
The root cause is just the enormous misfit between the massive Titanic that is the Federal justice system, and the humble, simple goal of encouraging women to engage in scholastic sports.
I mean this as a societal endeavor, not as a strictly legal one. Here we have a problem and our answer is this? It seems completely inappropriate and mis-matched. We have no better use of our time? This is something worthy of our livelihoods, this is worth doing to advance our culture?
And, more to the point, isn’t it obvious that we’ve invented a cure that is much worse than whatever injustice and mis-appropriation of funds were the cause of the original complaint?
It’s enough to make me just want to throw up my hands and give up, honestly.
When justice runs away from its responsibility we end up with the mob, read social media, rule that we are experiencing today. to throw away all the progress that has been made for women's sports and even representation in the work place should be preposterous but alas when politics becomes involved the preposterous is the norm.
"progress that has been made for women’s sports and even representation in the work place"
In what ways do you care about that? Be specific what policies you support in these areas.
Cis women are going to end up just as policed and restricted as trans women out of all this. Physical tests, drug tests, being challenged in public or in work spaces based on dress and physical appearance, made to jump through more hoops to access medical treatments.
The premise is that these transgenders are indistinguishable from actual women. That's simply not true. Very few transgenders have passing privilege. So much so that it's a huge cultural concept for them.
No, the premise is that in order to distinguish them you'll want to get all stasi with checkpoints and strip searches and monitoring, just to be sure. It's not about the 'passing privelege' of trans women, it's about any woman that isn't conventionally attractive or who's wearing non-feminine clothes. For fuck's sake, you guys think Michelle Obama is secretly a man.
There's literally a video of Michael Obama's penis swinging when he's dancing. That one famous comedian was even killed over mentioning it.
There we go. These are the people who want to police women's spaces. Seeing penises and murder everywhere.
Trans women entered women's sports and used women's bathrooms and changing rooms for decades without any fuss. It was an entirely social acceptance, albeit tacit. Suddenly it became a flash-point because conservative christians decided it makes a great wedge issue. Now they're trying to pass laws to make it illegal to wear clothes that don't match your assigned gender, to call yourself by pronouns that don't match your assigned gender, to deny medical services even to adult trans people. Trans women in sport is the tip of the iceberg.
"Trans women entered women’s sports and used women’s bathrooms and changing rooms for decades without any fuss."
Citation needed.
They used to do DNA tests at the Olympics for female athletes. Seems like fuss to me.
Renee Richards created a lot of fuss too.
As did the East German women's teams in virtually all sports. Seems Nige is citing stuff he pulled out of his ass with this one.
They also used 'naked parades' in front of male physicians, y'know, just to hammer home the misogyny. They changed the rules in 2003 to allow trans women to compete.
https://www.campuspride.org/resources/lgbt-sports-history-timeline/
I still can't fully understand the terminology. If a human with an eight inch boner is standing naked before me, am I gazing upon a male or a trans female? If the penis-equipped human is a trans female, am I truly expected to affirm that human's choice and/or dysphoria treatment by pretending that the turgid penis is a vagina?
I have an active imagination and am not opposed to pretending that obvious physical differences do not exist; however, the circumstances under which I am expected to pretend remain unclear to me and therefore pose a slight hazard to me. What if that well-endowed naked human before be is _not_ a trans female and does _not_ wish me to imagine the presence of a vagina? In many instances, nudity removes all indications of gender dysphoria.
It seems that an easier first step would be to remove all preferences -- dropping all forms affirmative action, now known as diversity, inclusion, and equity initiatives -- for each and every currently protected class: no race-based admissions, no consideration whatsoever of physical characteristics during hiring, et c. Many issues disappear once the protected classes have been eliminated.
You could just ask. It’s unlikely to affect you one way or the other. I suppose they might ask you to imagine they have a vagina as some form of sex play, but it’s unlikely to come up otherwise.
Remove all protections from protected classes – just look what you guys are doing to trans people, imagine what you’ll do to the rest given half a chance.
Not humoring people with mental illnesses hardly seems cruel.
Let me guess, Nige --- you agree with anorexics when they say that they are fat, don't you? It'd be vicious to not do so, right?
What does the medical community advise people to say when an anorexic person tells them they're fat? What do they advise when someone tells them they're trans? If you weren't just out to be vicious and cruel you'd find out, so you'd know the difference.
The DSM-5 revision saw a transgender activist as part of the committee on transgenderism.
Who gives a flying flip what a much of credentialed woke morons say.
Everyone but you, mad that your hatreds are reflected less and less in public and professional life.
Could care less what the APA says about much of anything. Feel free to explain why SOME body dismorphia needs to be applauded while others need to be condemned. Something remotely consistent.
Because experience and study and research has indicated the best ways of approaching different dismorphias.
An adult who believes fairy tales are true -- let alone perceives that nonsense to be a foundation for bigotry -- is every bit as mentally ill as anyone you have in mind, damikesc.
Too bad mental health outcomes data doesn’t support your belief.
But since when has data and evidence ever mattered to you people?
I personally would like to see a transgender protest in areas where only birth gender is recognized - where Trans women are topless.
I'm sure any arrest (or lack of) would be evidence of bias and not fact.
"cis males (whose sex at birth was male and who still identify as male)"
"Cis" is stupid. There is only one "male".
"sex at birth" never changes
'“Cis” is stupid'
Don't say that, some of my best friends are cis.
If people are allowed to direct others on how they wish to be identified or described, I choose “male”, not “cis”.
Calling me cisgendered is offensive. See how that works? Just like nobody asked Latinos whether they would prefer Latinx, nobody consulted me about my preferred gender descriptions. Cue the intersectionality responses in 3,2,1…
‘See how that works?’
I see how you think it works, as if society hasn’t up to relatively recently been predominantly designed not to give offence to cis white males.
Liftoff! That only some groups are permitted to be offended, or control how others describe them, is both intersectional and authoritarian.
I have no problem using someone’s preferred pronouns, out of sheer politeness. I’d expect the same in return. What I strongly object to is some quasi-governmental (fascist) movement punishing other people who don’t.
That’s all beyond the primary scope of whether we should even bother having separate sporting teams (or other opportunities) if that segregation is based on gender rather than sex. There are rationally objective differences for that between the sexes, nothing rational about segregating sports teams by gender where self-identification is the rule.
'permitted to be offended'
I have yet to see any limitation placed on cis white people's capacity to be offended.
Hmm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_Semenya
Birth defects are not relevant to my comment.
Humans have two hands but the occasional person with one hand because of a birth defect is still human, not some other species.
Cherry picking must be a nice line of work.
The only future available to guys like Bob from Ohio would be display in a museum, like the stones the workmen found.
(I wish Gordon played this one at his symphony performances.)
Why Arthur L Kirkland, I do declare I love that song, and knew what it was before clicking the link.
Summary. Title IX like the CRA will be enforced when such enforcement complies with identity politics. When enforcement doesn't comply it won't be enforced.
Way back in pre-history, (1970) a group from work were at lunch, and women's lib became the topic. At one point, one of the men (we had those then) asked "Where will this all end? Will women back up to the urinals, or will men all have to squat to pee?" Everyone laughed, men and women alike.
And yet, here we are.
For you, however, only until replacement occurs.
OK, Mike Tyson vs Celine Dion??? not singing, in a good old fashioned fist fight. Only chance CD's got is if she can get Iron Mike to break down by singing "Candle in the Wind" (tearing up just thinking about it)
Frank "Everyone has a plan till Celine sings"
If trans women are women, then allowing them onto women's sport teams *shouldn't* violate title IX. Because doing so isn't disadvantaging women at all--since the trans women count as women, it's merely disadvantaging some women in favor of other women. Title IX doesn't prohibit disadvantaging some women in favor of other women.
Also in that case you need to put any biological male that identifies as trans in female prisons as well. Even if they were convicted of sex crimes against women.
Some people can make this assumption, but there's a problem. What about people who identify as "non-binary" or "gender fluid"? In fact, there are some trans people, who state with all seriousness, that they identify as female on some days and males on other days. So what do we do with them? Let them arbitrarily decide on any day what restrooms to use or sports teams to play on?
If self identification is the standard, then there is no standard because that's entirely subjective. The only objective standard is biological sex (if you want to get really technical, the presence or absence of the SRY gene).
Rossman: "Pat is being treated exactly the same as those individuals. Of course, if Pat's "sex" is biological sex (female) rather than gender identity, then Pat is being treated differently from those whose biological sex is male. But so is every other person whose biological sex is female."
Man in Black: Truly you have a dizzying intellect
Rossman: Wait till I get going. Now where was I?
Man in Black: Title IX.
Rossman: Yes, Title IX . And you must have suspected I would have known the laws origin, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Standards of nudity should be covered, but apparently are not.
Because the physical and mental differences is a much stronger argument then some nonsense equity based one.
As if women's sports had only existed as long as men's, then women would be as strong and as smart as men.
It's a hilariously bad argument for a woman's organization to make.
Ahh Queenie,
making that common mistake of Male Calvinist Pigs have been making since Earl Butz told his "Loose Shoes" joke (Google that blank)
It's the "National Organization FOR Women"
Prepare for a strong letter from Molly Yard
Frank
I like woman's college basketball, knowing as a 60 year old I could give them a game.
Also, because its natural implication is that government *must* end women-only sport leagues eventually.
Ask Rosman.
Again, ask the author, Rosman.
I have refereed soccer in adult mixed leagues. The leagues that I did had some separate rules that applied to the men and the women (as judged by appearance), such as no slide tackles of women. If a person with a beard showed up and claimed to be a woman, I would not have penalized a slide tackle on that player, but the other players were welcome to pass up the game winning tackle.
Oh, I think I see your point. They're a shitty goals-oriented advocacy group and not a principled one.
You can't conceive other people's thoughts, that's not surprising.
Given this comment:
“curiously, the position of the National Organization of Women”
Not sure why that’s curious…
It’s your belief that the most reasonable conclusion is that it’s not curious because NOW is a shitty goals based advocacy group that everyone knows and recognizes as such?
And that I somehow missed that because I lack Theory of Mind?
I haven’t seen you comment much around here, that’s probably because you don’t sound very intelligent and your nervous about going toe-to-toe with an Internet Champ.
"male teachers of color"
"Can you think of a difference between STEM jobs and education jobs and the historical context of imbalance that might explain more concern for disparities in one?"
No -- high school teaching used to be predominantly male, there used to even be male language teachers. In spite of all the reasons why women went into teaching (it and nursing being the only professions open to them).
By 1990, some 90% of the teacher under age 30 (in Massachusetts) were female, and now a lot of the admin slots are also female.
Where do they allow slide tackles in adult rec leagues?
And, likewise, at age 60 you could still overpower a 21 year old female police officer. So why do we allow women to be cops?
110 lb cop and 220 lb perp in a struggle, whom do you think is going to get hurt? Or win the struggle?
In Soccer?
I only played it in PE class, but I've never heard of a "slide tackle"...
I mean, I guess it's better to admit your own ignorance rather than do what you usually do, which is bullshit your way through it based on an unverifiable claim about something that someone told you happened at the University of Massachusetts 30 years ago. Still, you could try the most basic of research steps before commenting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sliding_tackle