The Volokh Conspiracy
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Ninth Circuit Judge Urges Supreme Court "Not to Give Any First Amendment Protection for Racist Hate Speech"
“[G]overnment officials ... should not be unduly constrained in their attempts to regulate hate speech for the purpose of protecting the intended targets of said speech. This may require some refining of the Supreme Court’s prior guidance in its precedents.... For example, the Court could consider modifying the Brandenburg test to require only a probable and emerging threat of violence rather than imminent lawless action as a result of speech in order to regulate it.”
In Chen v. Albany Unified School Dist., Judge Ronald Gould joined the panel opinion, but added the following; the opinion dealt with K-12 public schools' restrictions on student speech, where the government already has substantial latitude (which is what the panel focused on), but its logic expressly extends to the government as sovereign criminally punishing speech and not just to the government as educator:
I write separately to express my views on the topic of hate speech, disturbingly present in both the facts of the case before the panel and regrettably, a reemerging threat to society throughout the nation today. I reaffirm the viewpoint I stated when another case involving hate speech in schools came before this court: "Hate speech, whether in the form of a burning cross, or in the form of a call for genocide, or in the form of a tee shirt misusing biblical text to hold gay students to scorn, need not under Supreme Court decisions be given the full protection of the First Amendment in the context of the school environment, where administrators have a duty to protect students from physical or psychological harms." Harper v. Poway Unified Sch. Dist. (9th Cir. 2006) (Gould, J., concurring in the denial of rehearing en banc), vacated on other grounds, 549 U.S. 1262 (2007). The continued prevalence of hate speech and crimes against American citizens and residents on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, and disability is evidence of the enduring threat of hate crimes to the fabric of American democratic society and to the safety and security of individuals.
In light of this threat, I write to underscore that the First Amendment and Supreme Court precedent do not require courts always to strike down a government entity's attempts to prevent harm to their citizens—especially in the context of hateful speech at schools harming children.
The Supreme Court in Beauharnais v. Illinois (1952), upheld a criminal libel statute that sought to prevent the publications of items that subjected "citizens of any race, color, creed or religion to contempt, derision, or obloquy or which is productive of breach of the peace or riots." Though the viability of the Beauharnais decision has been called into question by our sister circuits, the case has not been overturned and the Supreme Court's rationale focused on protecting the dignity of the enumerated class of citizens remains persuasive. {We have also previously expressed skepticism of Beauharnais. See Dworkin v. Hustler Mag. Inc. (9th Cir. 1989) ("We agree with the Seventh Circuit that the permissibility of group libel claims [discussed in Beauharnais] is highly questionable at best."). However, those decisions centered on the libel theory rationale within Beauharnais likely undermined by New York Times v. Sullivan (1964), while the majority opinion in Beauharnais also embraced a broad conception of the legislature's ability to regulate hate speech due to its pernicious effects on citizens' ability to participate fully in the democratic process as another basis for its ruling. This rationale has reemerged throughout the years since the Beauharnais opinion, see R.A.V. v. City of St. Paul (1992) (Stevens, J., concurring in the judgment).}
Courts should hesitate to question attempts by the government, through its elected bodies, to protect their constituents, and this deference is applicable both when the actions in question are undertaken at the federal level by the Congress of the United States and when actions to protect students are undertaken at the local level by an elected school board, such as in Albany, California.
Some may believe that attempts to solve the persistent issue of hate speech are misguided and ill-advised; but in response, the measured words of Justice Frankfurter come to mind: "It may be argued, and weightily, that this legislation will not help matters; that tension and on occasion violence between racial and religious groups must be traced to causes more deeply embedded in our society than the rantings of modern Know-Nothings…. That being so, it would be out of bounds for the judiciary to deny the legislature a choice of policy, provided it is not unrelated to the problem and not forbidden by some explicit limitation on the State's power."
This is especially true in the context of the present case, where school administrators, including members of the elected Alameda County Board of Education, tried to protect their students from hate speech that could reasonably be construed as containing an implied threat of violence. Possibly, the school district could have taken alternative routes, such as attempting to educate and reform the perpetrators of the hate speech in line with the school's role as educators. But our role is not to dictate education policy from the bench, but rather to ensure that the Constitution and the applicable laws were correctly followed. I conclude that the school district's actions, in light of the potential for violence, the substantial disruption of school activities, and the infringement upon the rights of other students to be physically secure in their learning environment, were permissible and benign to the system of free expression protected by the First Amendment. The possibility that government actions aimed at improving the lives of students may not eventually be fully effective is no reason to say that the school board cannot try to protect its students.
The context of the public school raises the stakes. The public school is a special institution within American society, serving as "the first opportunity most citizens have to experience the power of government… [and t]he values they learn there, they take with them in life." This comes with the understanding that even for public school officials, "[i]f there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion." However, this understanding of the role of schools comes with a companion understanding that schools serve an essential role in imbuing and inoculating positive values in children, such as teaching the values central to good citizenship. One aspect of those values is a central understanding of the dignity and respect that must be afforded to all citizens and people, regardless of any personal characteristics or attributes like race, religion, and sexual orientation, and the role of that respect for the individual in the healthy functioning of a multiracial, pluralistic democracy. As Justice [Brennan] stated …, we recognize "that respect for the individual which is the lifeblood of the law." The flipside of that central understanding is that hate speech is antithetical to the values of this nation.
Hateful speech encourages hateful thoughts, which lead to hateful goals of individuals; those, in turn, lead to hateful actions and sometimes violence, resulting in harm to the public. No court would seriously entertain an argument that schools must teach hateful speech on the grounds of academic equality or fairness when it so clearly is antithetical to our values. Hate speech has no role in our society and contributes little or nothing to the free-flowing marketplace of ideas that is essential to protect in a school environment. Just as a school cannot be forced to teach hate speech, neither should it be forced to entertain and tolerate within its walls hate speech promulgated by arrantly misguided students. When school authorities take action to root out the persistent echoes of racism that arise from time to time in American society, courts should not stop them, instead allowing racist comments to be rooted out and not deemed protected by the First Amendment. These principles apply with cogent force to hate speech that threatens to dehumanize ethnic or racial groups within our multiracial society.
We may properly consider the incalculable harm that hate speech can cause ethnic or racial minorities in the context of school settings. Justice Thomas's words are illustrative in this evaluation: "In every culture, certain things acquire meaning well beyond what outsiders can comprehend." His words counsel us to keep in mind the differing cultural and historical circumstances that might lead different groups to experience hate speech differently. Children go to school to enrich their lives and gain knowledge and skills to assist their full and productive participation in society. But consider how an African American child must feel if confronted with images sent to other students portraying the child as inferior, as less intelligent and as less human. As in the facts of the case before us, African American children may be particularly sensitive to imagery portraying them as slaves or akin to animals.
Similarly, Jewish children may be particularly sensitive to images portraying them as rats or vermin, or even insects, as was done in Nazi Germany as prelude to the Holocaust. Indeed, each ethnic, racial, or other minority group will recognize visual images or verbal phrasings that dehumanize their community and encourage hate to be visited upon them, resulting in the disruption or interference with their effective learning process. Such an inquiry must be fact-specific and unique to the circumstances of each case, but in an especially egregious example like the case before us today, the answer is clear, as expressed in the majority opinion. In my view, civilized society should not tolerate imagery encouraging hate; government bodies, consistent with the Constitution, can and should be able to take steps to stop it.
We should understand the government, through our vast network of public schools, must be able to address systemic hatred towards minority groups within the boundaries of the school, consistent with constitutional limits placed upon government actors. Consider Justice Jackson's warning against "allow[ing] zeal for our own ideas of what is good in public instruction to induce us to accept the role of a super board of education for every school district in the nation." We have a role to play when constitutional rights, such as those involving free speech in the case before us, are implicated, but primary responsibility for the operation of the school rests with elected officials and their selected representatives, and we should not stand in the way of school boards protecting their own students from the vile effects of hate speech.
School boards properly have power to discipline the perpetrators of hate speech. Despite the lower court record indicating that some involved students allegedly boasted that "they were going to win" and not face the consequences of their hurtful speech, I conclude that culpable racist students are properly punished for their abhorrent actions, which in this case dehumanized African American students through imagery and verbiage harkening back to the days of slavery and the discredited language of eugenics.
I write to stress that school officials, and government officials more broadly, should not be unduly constrained in their attempts to regulate hate speech for the purpose of protecting the intended targets of said speech. This may require some refining of the Supreme Court's prior guidance in its precedents. For example, while recognizing that my views on hate speech may be less protective of speech than some current doctrine, I would conclude here that the racist characterizations and images, dehumanizing African Americans students, is sufficient to show a threat of imminent violence, fights or other attacks on African Americans, including, within the school context, bullying and harassment. Justice Thomas, in his dissent in Virginia v. Black involving a state statute banning cross burning with an intent to intimidate, noted his disagreement with the majority opinion's rationale that "imput[ed] an expressive component to the activity in question [i.e., cross burning]." Instead, Justice Thomas focused on the intimidating conduct itself as grounds for upholding the Virginia statute.
Refocusing our attention on the hate speech issues in this case, I conclude that "just as one cannot burn down someone's house to make a political point and then seek refuge in the First Amendment, those who hate cannot terrorize and intimidate to make their point." In our case, the culprits believed that they could escape the consequences of their hate speech that generated indisputable fear and intimidation in their targeted student victims because their conduct was couched in avowed "speech." If the Supreme Court decides to reassess its precedents in this area, I urge them to not blink the fact of grievous harm that hate speech causes its targets. I also urge the Court not to give any First Amendment protection for racist hate speech. For example, the Court could consider modifying the Brandenburg test to require only a probable and emerging threat of violence rather than imminent lawless action as a result of speech in order to regulate it. Regardless, I would adopt an expansive view of the ability of government officials who regulate schools to protect the future citizens they are bound to serve and educate.
This is indeed not consistent with existing Supreme Court precedents—under which there is no "hate speech" exception to the First Amendment—and I think the Court's precedents are correct on this point. (As to why Beauharnais is inconsistent with more recent precedents, see here.) But precisely because it so forthrightly calls for reducing free speech protections here, Judge Gould's concurrence struck me as noteworthy.
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It may be uncivil of me, but I hope he someday gets hoisted by his own petard for some hate speech he made 30 years ago.
It's easier than that. I deem the 9th circuit's advocacy of restrictions on the 1st amendment to be hate speech and therefore demand that the FBI censor them following the "Twitter Files" precedent.
The moment SCOTUS recognizes a "hate speech" exception to the First Amendment, every Tom, Dick and Harry will try to define speech they don't like as "hate speech."
A post earlier this week discussed an adjunct professor at a private university fired because he dared to show a medieval painting of Mohammed, which supposedly offends Muslims. That is only one step away from what this judge is proposing.
I wonder what the chances are of the Supreme Court knocking this down. It seems like pretty dangerous precedent, even if contained "only" within the 9th circuit.
It wasn't the decision of the court, just Gould expressing his own opinion, so there's nothing to knock down.
I guess it IS within the power of the Judicial Council to deal out some sort of discipline, but that's highly unlikely in a case like this.
Thanks -- I missed that particular part that Gould's writing was not part of the decision. But the decision itself is what I was mainly referring to, even without Gould's hate speech.
Excellent point. Happy New Year, BL.
"The moment SCOTUS recognizes a “hate speech” exception to the First Amendment, every Tom, Dick and Harry will try to define speech they don’t like as “hate speech.”"
Perhaps even before SCOTUS recognizes such an exception.
While I disagree with the judge, as I started reading his opinion I got the initial impression he was talking about school speech, and I thought his proposal wasn't so 'out there.' But reading to the end, it became clear he was talking about the 1A generally rather than schools specifically.
The ploy is to get the camel's nose under the tent within the school setting under the pretense that a school is some sacrosanct entity that is partially Bill of Rights-free.
As much as cancel culture is disparaged it does serve a real function in policing speech that is far beyond the bounds of civilized discourse.
Of course the problem is people go looking for scalps.
But of course cancel culture does cut both ways as a lot of ivy league students are finding out.
First, I think that lower court judges are entitled to occassionally express their personal opinion after applying the law as it is, and suggest that the Supreme Court should reconsider a precedent or Congress should consider amending or repealing a statute. And my view on this doesn’t depend on whether I agree or disagree with the judge’s personal opinion.
Second, I think it’s inevitable that trends expressed in law schools will inevitably bubble up through the courts. What this means is that people like Professor Volokh can’t simply stand on precedent, confident that all attempts to change the law will be shot down. Rather, they have to continually communicate a rationale for why the law should stay as it is.
I will once again bring up the fact that the concept of hate speech in this country originated with John Calhoun, who successfully argued that abolitionist literature should be censored by the post office because it constituted hate speech. The idea that speech offensive to a recognized minority should be suppressed ought to be tempered by the recognition that not only were slaveholders this country’s first recognized minority and the first beneficiary of hate speech suppression, they benefited greatly from their ability to harness the government’s resources to suppress speech opposing their cause, setting back abolitionism’s ability to communicate its rationale and extending slavery’s power and reach.
I think current advocates of hate speech suppression should be asked to explain this precedent, and asked why we shouldn’t expect this doctrine will again be used against them if the pendulum should happen to swing, the shoe should once again be found on the other foot, and their political opponents should once again have the power they had prior to the Civil War.
Moreover, the fact that Congress was convinced opposition to slavery was nothing but hate should temper the certainty of today’s activists that opposition to their cause is based on nothing but animosity and any expression of such opposition constitutes hate speech. Our historical experience of slavery and the thinking and behavior of its supporters cautions us that advocates of causes tend to be blinded by their zealousness, and become unable to see any reason in what their opponents have to say. First Amendment doctrine serves as a check on this tendency.
I can't see how a court can even use the term "hate speech". From a Constitutional standpoint the term doesn't exist. There is only speech.
I mean, his whole point is that from a constitutional standpoint the term should exist.
Well let him write his own constitution.
What about obscenity, libel, fighting words, crime facilitation? Indecent speech (obscenity lite)? child pornography (super-obscenity)? Speech disruptive to minors’ education? The Supreme Court carved out all kinds of specially labeled exceptions in the past. This means it’s pretty clear there isn’t “only speeech.” And having carved out all these various specially labeled exceptions in the past, the possibility is open for for discussion that it might carve out a new one in the future.
Frankly, claiming a proposed new exception doesn’t exist as a concept because the Supreme Court hasn’t recognized it is a bit like someone in the 1990s claiming there is no such thing as gay rights because the Supreme Court didn’t recognize it. This type of argument isn’t going to persuade anybody that recognizing a new category is a bad idea.
To the contrary, it’s essentially conceding that the only argument one can come up with is that things have always been done this way. And as Justice Blackman pointed out in his dissent in Bowers v. Hardwick, nobody who wants change is going to find that argument persuasive.
As I said in my main comment, arguments like this just aren’t going to work forever. It’s important to make a direct case for an expansive First Amendment, to attempt to persuade, not to simply rest on precedent because that’s the way things have been done in the past.
Talk about letting the camel's nose inside the tent . . . After all the behind the scenes shenanigans coming to light in the Twitter file releases between government and Big Tech, it is clear that there are sectors of the government who will use the phrase "hjate speech" to signify "speech I don't like."
No thanks.
The Supreme Court in Beauharnais v. Illinois (1952), upheld a criminal libel statute that sought to prevent the publications of items that subjected "citizens of any race, color, creed or religion to contempt, derision, or obloquy or which is productive of breach of the peace or riots."
The most derisive things I read lately are comments by homosexual advocates regarding the religious beliefs of Christians, Muslims and Jews.
You can be sure that whatever "anti-hate-speech" laws are promulgated once Judge Gould's position prevails, they'll be selectively enforced. (Offending some groups will get you prosecuted, while you can offend others all day long. If you're a politician with a "R" after your name, expect "hate speech" charges; a "D" after your name is a talisman against such prosecutions. Et cetera.)
While this guy should go back to law school, the fact that this is rare enough to be a headline should be somewhat heartening.
It's just the leading edge of the flood, Sarcastr0. So many law schools now have climates that are radically hostile to freedom of speech, and they're graduating the next generation of lawyers, from whom judges will be chosen.
What you tolerate being taught in schools today, will be imposed on you by the government a generation later, when those students take power.
It's going to take a resolute and absolutely determined effort to stop this view of the 1st amendment from taking over in the judiciary, and I don't see that as likely, because there's a partisan split today on the value of free speech.
Except I went to law school, Brett, and you have no idea what they teach re: hate speech.
You're making shit up so you can plan on future oppression. Which is common around here, but I still think weird.
Funny thing - this appellate judge also went to law school, just like you did. How could he possibly be so wrong?
As I said in my OP - this judge's comments made headlines because they were so out of the norm. Picking them as an exemplar is disingenuous.
Seems he is quite at home on the Ninth though, given this was a concurrence and not a dissent.
Did anyone join his concurrence?
Quit nutpicking.
And yet in law schools all over the country they describe misgendering, or withdrawing job offers for supporting terrorist murderers as "violence".
I don’t doubt you went to law school. Did you by any chance do it in the last few years? Are you under the impression that law school hasn't changed any?
The profs have not changed all that much since I went. That's tenure for you.
Plus I know a number of law professors now.
Suffice to say that I have more info on what's been happening in law school than your intuition.
A headline on Reason. Let me know when it's a headline picked up elsewhere
Again, I ask that Prof Volokh and the other bloggers start stating who put these judges on the bench. Not just when we disagree, but all the time. We can't vote these judges out, but we can note which party is appointing them. We cannot exercise our only democratic check in all this if we ignore which party is up to which judicial philosophy.
For the record- this fellow is a Clinton appointee.
In general you are correct, but occasionally when the opposite party controls the Senate, the President, as part of a package deal, will nominate a candidate he disagrees with but the Senate supports.
For this issue, however, "hate speech" bans are usually favored by the Left.
I am sure no one would be shocked to learn that Judge Gould is quite the passionate defender of the First Amendment when it comes to left-wing organizations’ rights to advocate dangerous, violent, and illegal activity.
Greenpeace had engaged in a lengthy campaign against Shell Oil that included the illegal boarding, occupation, blockading, and sabotage against its ships and operations. Shell sought, and received, an injunction preventing Greenpeace coming within a certain distance of certain named vessels as well as engaging in certain illegal or tortious acts against Shell. A 2-1 panel of the Ninth Circuit upheld the injunction. Shell Offshore, Inc. v. Greenpeace, Inc., 709 F.3d 1281 (9th Cir. 2013). The full court denied Greenpeace’s petition for a rehearing en banc. 722 F.3d 1144 (9th Cir. 2013). Judge Gould dissented from that denial:
Id. at 1145 (Gould, J., dissenting) (citations omitted).
So, per the jurisprudence (and theology) of Ronald Gould, advocating sabotage is protected by the First Amendment, but “misusing” a Bible verse on a T-shirt is not.
In typical leftist fashion, their violence is protected speech but speech they disagree with is violence.
Think of it in terms of George Orwell’s 1984. We have The Party (Democrats). Their ideology is “goodthink.” Anything opposed to their ideology is "crimethink.” You’re a criminal by virtue of having “bad” thoughts. Naturally, expressing such thoughts will land you in jail. Not only that, but if “goodthinkful” citizens physically attack you, they’re only doing their civic duty, and, naturally, aren’t subject to punishment.
Courtesy of literary deconstruction, one is not bound to take Orwell as a cautionary tale (as the author may have intended) but to freely read the book as a how-to manual.
When it comes to Greenpeace, I think the French had it right.
I believe in allowing government officials to restrict hate speech, but only if I am the official in charge.
I think you and Judge Gould are in precise agreement.
I doubt it. SKofNJ quite clearly means if SKofNJ is in charge, and is equally clearly being sarcastic and does not approve of Judge Gould. Whereas Judge Gould quite clearly is not being sarcastic and quite clearly does believe Judge Gould should be in charge.
You are correct (person whose name I don't understand, which I'm guessing is a Russian name of some sort). I was sarcastically expressing my disapproval of Judge Gould.
My handle is simply as many letters with diacritical marks as I could fit. It has no meaning. I was curious how Reason handled Unicode.
"....modifying the Brandenburg test to require only a probable and emerging threat of violence rather than imminent lawless action as a result of speech in order to regulate it.”
Under this standard I could lock up most politicians..... Starting with Judge Gould for this statement.
Gee, I wonder if Gould has any particular individual in mind when he advocates this new test.
Probably not SKofNJ.
I'd note that the person Judge Gould likely has in mind has his own peculiar notions of the 1st Amendment. Be very careful what you wish for.
Sure, Judge Gould. We'll immediately start locking up athletes for failing to display respect during the National Anthem for their anti-American hate speech. Say, nine years in an Alaskan labor camp?
Sounds about right.
Are we to lose freedom because some historically ignorant ass rubs his chin and decides to let motivated, power hungry folk, the bane of humanity worldwide and throughout history, have the power of censorship?
"They won't allow it all! Just stuff that hurts people!"
Which is the justification used by regines worldwide.
A fair selection of responses of the type Judge Gould (and Ben Franklin, by the way) argues against—unreflective claims to unbounded rights. Gould cites existing carveouts, which courts have bounded, and which continue. He suggests another such carveout, presumably similarly limited and bounded. Gould, less succinctly than Franklin, makes the case that pro-rights absolutists seek to undermine discussions of what proper bounds should encompass a right. Without consideration of any particulars at all, pro-rights absolutists scream the sky will fall.
Gould says, accurately, that kind of screaming will not end the discussions. What Franklin pointed out was that pro-rights absolutists do nothing to increase insight about rights.
Real jurisprudence about rights will continue to draw distinctions. Pro-rights absolutists will continue to insist that every distinction be drawn to favor their own preferences, and pretend that some kind of rights-related principle they refuse to discuss proves it.
"All men...are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights. Among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. To secure these rights, governments are instituted among men."
"Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press..."
"Real jurisprudence about rights will continue to draw distinctions."
Like the non-existence of any privacy interest in material held by a third-party, or metadata about communications (even if the communication itself is protected). Or turning Sec 1983 into qualified immunity. That's all real jurisprudence!
Judge Gould was at Penn same time as Donaldus Maximus, nearly the same age, Wikipedia photo bears a family resemblance (combover, closed mouth smile) "Ronald" (Ronald and Donald??) something's rotten in Denmark, lets see the birth certificate Judge "Gould", if that really is your name.
Frank "Nominated at height of Clinton impeachment, just gets curiouser and curiouser"
"in the form of a tee shirt misusing biblical text to hold gay students to scorn,"
Who is this guy to tell others how to read the bible? F'n Democrats, man.
The reason to protect "hate speech" from a normative point of view is not that "hate speech" is "good," but that giving government the power to define what is "hate speech" is a disaster waiting to happen. We already see that constantly elsewhere in places government thankfully is not wielding its guns to punish
Jeez, those nasty little sociopath kids with their private instagram need to be taken to the woodshed. They got no “raisins.” So their parents should be excoriated too. I agree with their expulsions.
I don’t agree with that 9th Circuit judge who wants 1A broadly diminished. And, btw, my 1A rights are not “given” to me. Or you. They are inherent natural rights. I was born with them and you too. And the more I watch all these audits on YT, the more I believe we need a peaceful revolution, a la John Bryan, Steve Lehto, Long Island Audit, Auditing America, Lackluster, et alia, to clean house and educate the public and our alarming percentage of rogue cops and authoritarian bureaucrats with no respect for 1A. Maybe we need to go back to tar and feathers. sarc/
Justice Sandra Day O’Connor bemoaned our lack of Civics courses in public schools. I damn sure agree with her. Our educators and fatassed, slovenly administrators are a horde of slackers, or worse. They need to be taken to the woodshed too.
You sure you want civics taught by the wokester commies? They are the ones pushing hate speech laws and the rest of this nonsense meant to erode western civilization in a morass of confusion and strife.
I thought about that, but social media like FB and YT messages help set the little cubs on the straight and narrow to knowledge and integrity. They are already learning the Constitution and Bill of Rights online, and those 1A audits on YT are spreading like wildfire.
When I was in school in the fifties, there were some wacky ideas taught us kids, such as boys were made of snakes and snails and puppy dog tails, and girls of sugar and spice and everything nice. But we learned as we matured which teachers were good teachers and which ones were wacks.
I also learned to disagree with my parents, sometimes quietly, when they got off the rails, such as when President Truman fired Gen. Douglas MacArthur and Joseph McCarthy was calling everyone a commie who didn't agree with him. They also preached that Catholics were heathens who could not get into heaven. You have to have a mind of your own and not be so gullible as to believe that a Baptist was holy and a Catholic unholy.
If you're a kid, you might just reject wokesterism. I would have.
Would it be unreasonable to impeach the judge for advocating against upholding the Constitution?
"[T]he measured words of Justice Frankfurter come to mind: " . . . it would be out of bounds for the judiciary to deny the legislature a choice of policy, provided it is . . . not forbidden by some explicit limitation on the State's power.""
Why would Frankfurter's words support this position? This is a quintessential example of something that is forbidden by "some explicit limitation" on the State's power. A rather conspicuous and well-known one at that.
Beyond that, Frankfurter's words imply that the enumeration of powers is meaningless. This is obviously backwards, at least for the federal government, its powers are strictly limited and defined to those enumerated. This enumeration was thought by its drafters and proponents to be so inherently limiting that the bill of rights was not even necessary, and would be entirely superfluous. That is Constitution 101. Why do we have judges that propagate the exact opposite of the basic principles of the Constitution that even a middle schooler could understand?
Yes. This has been yet another episode of Simple Answers to Stupid Questions.
Impeachment is for misconduct, not for offering a legal interpretation someone doesn't like.
No. Delivering a legal ruling that unarguably violates the Constitution is a breach of the judge's oath.
Unarguably is not the rock-solid standard you think it is.
The PA Supreme Court agrees with you! Non-severability wasn't unarguable either.
"Section 11. Sections 1, 2, 3, 3.2, 4, 5, 5.1, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 12 of this act are nonseverable. If any provision of this act or its application to any person or circumstance is held invalid, the remaining provisions or applications of this act are void."
And the SC of PA indeed issued a decision that invalidated some provisions but claimed that the rest would stand.
It didn't invalidate any provisions. It was an as-applied challenge, not a facial challenge. Moreover, the PA Supreme Court has said in the past that nonseverability clauses are not always controlling.
I tend to agree with Sarcastro: it's arguables all the way down.
Anything that is conceivable or imaginable, the Constitution could be "interpreted" to mean that.
Of course, that also means the reasonability and constitutionality of impeaching this judge is likewise arguable. 🙂
This is a concurrence arguing for a change in the law, not a ruling or even a dissent. If you find this confusing, here's a trick: Be less dumb.
So you're advocating impeaching every judge that has a ruling overturned?
It would certainly be outside the norm. 🙂
Is there any conceivable "interpretation" of the Constitution that, in your view, would violate the oath to uphold it, or if yes but a such violation is inconsequential to impeachment, would otherwise constitute misconduct, or potential for violation of the good behaviour clause?
The Ninth Circuit remains the leader in shitty First Amendment decisions when it comes to schools. Harper and Dariano are explicit endorsement of viewpoint discrimination and in direct violation of Tinker. Gould, Graber, McKweon and others have repeatedly shown themselves to be statist speech hating losers. They can go suck a lemon.
Are there any enumerated rights in the Constitution that modern day leftists don't hold in utter contempt? For the left-leaning V.C. readers, "enumerated" is different than "emanated."
The Biden administration already proposed a Minister of Dis-Information nominee, who would identify "dis-information" so that it could then be censored. So why not a Minister of Hate Speech, with the power to point out "hate speech"??
While we're at it, go for the trifecta and nominate a Minister of Silly Walks.
Wondering if it remains permissible to pray in the privacy of one's home, or whether so doing violates principles of wrongthink. Prayer is the only thing I can think to do after reading this drivel.
I am a Catholic, 100%, but this is just bad science and ignorance of history. It was government that ‘defined’ race and furthered racism. Octaroons (1 out of 8 great grandparents legally Black) made you Black. It was the govt that in Brown v Board gave a result that ADDED to racism. As Justice Thomas said”It never ceases to amaze me that the courts are so willing to assume that anything that is predominantly black must be inferior”, so HBUC became less than they ever were. and Blacks have long realized what Frederick Douglass counseled and Booker T Washington commented : In 1911, Booker T. Washington wrote: There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs-partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs.
Yes, there is hateful speech but much of it is pre-eminently stupid speech. There are no pure races anymore and the mixing , from historical incidents and from modern mixed marriages , is increasing.
Take the advice of someone who knew intimately what was going on: “All I ask is, give him a chance to stand on his own legs! Let him alone! If you see him on his way to school, let him alone, don’t disturb him! If you see him going to the dinner table at a hotel, let him go! If you see him going to the ballot- box, let him alone, don’t disturb him! [Applause.] If you see him going into a work-shop, just let him alone,—your interference is doing him a positive injury.” Frederick Douglass
What damage people like Hillary Clinton have done to race relations. And her views on Reconstruction were opposed from every point of view, it was a rare thing to witness in life. But that is how silly racist nonsense should be handled , the way she was treated.