The Volokh Conspiracy
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Did The Ways & Means Committee Play The Supreme Court On Trump's Tax Returns?
In the long run, the Supreme Court may be less-deferential to House oversight requests.
A recent article in the New York Times proclaimed the arrival of the "Imperial Supreme Court." These conservative jurists continue to rule against the executive branch, we learn. As with all empirical work, counting cases is very subjective. This rule is especially apt in separation of powers cases. Who won Trump v. Mazars (2020), for example? Was it the President, the Congress, or was it the Supreme Court? That decision did not stop the House committees from obtaining President Trump's tax returns. Nor did the Supreme Court allow the House committees to obtain President Trump's tax returns immediately. The decision, as with much of Chief Justice Roberts's handiwork, was muddled. The Court put forward a balancing test to determine whether the committees had a valid legislative purpose to obtain the tax returns. And that dispute would not be resolved quickly.
Fast-forward to 2022. Former-President Trump asked the Supreme Court to block the release of the returns. Trump argued that the request from the Ways & Means Committee was pretextual. The goal, Trump argued, was "exposing President Trump's tax information to the public for the sake of exposure." In response, the Ways & Means Committee told the Supreme Court that its request "is well-tailored to illuminating how the IRS conducted any audits of Mr. Trump while he was President and whether reforms are needed to enhance the IRS's ability to audit Presidents in the future." Indeed, the Committee rejected any argument that the release was pretextual. Rather, this request, like prior requests, was part of a plan to evaluate the IRS's audit of presidential tax returns. On November 22, the Supreme Court declined to block the release, with no recorded dissents.
With the tax returns in its possession, what would the Ways & Means Committee do? On December 2, Daniel Hemel explained that the Committee has the power to release the reports, but it should hesitate to do so on a rushed basis. He explained:
On the other hand, the Ways and Means Committee has maintained throughout the litigation over Trump's tax returns—which culminated with last week's Supreme Court decision—that it is seeking the documents as part of its plan to review the IRS's presidential audit program. (The presidential audit program is the procedure—mentioned in an IRS manual but not codified in any statute or regulation—by which the IRS examines individual tax returns filed by the president and vice president each year.) Any review of the presidential audit program that starts now and ends when the GOP takes control of the House in January would be slapdash and superficial. If Democrats on the House Ways and Means Committee rushed to release Trump's returns in the lame-duck session—without conducting the comprehensive review of the presidential audit program that they promised—it would look like their stated motive for seeking the documents was indeed, as Trump has alleged, pretextual.
Did the Ways & Means Committee follow Hemel's sage advice? No. On a party-line vote, the Committee voted to release six years of Trump's tax returns, including the 2020 return filed after his term concluded. The Committee discovered that Trump's returns were not audited during his first two years in office. That discovery is quite newsworthy. But why was it necessary to release six years of return to prove that point?
Hemel criticizes this decision:
The Times' report suggests that the breakdown of the IRS's presidential audit program started—and ended—with Trump. But only the committee can explain its reason for publishing six years of Trump's returns. And Tuesday's report is strangely silent on that critical question.
…
A high-level summary would have sufficed to show that—notwithstanding Trump's campaign trail claim that his returns were "very beautiful"—his filings contained items that should have merited further IRS scrutiny, such as a very large net operating loss carry forward that wiped away years of taxable income. We don't need to know, for example, precisely how much interest income Trump received from his adult children on intra-family loans in order to conclude that the IRS's failure to audit Trump for his first two years in office was potentially consequential.
Moreover, it's not clear why the committee decided to include Trump's tax year 2020 returns in the data dump—except for the scintillating fact that Trump paid $0 of federal income tax for that year (which was probably not unusual for owners of hotel properties at the height of the Covid-19 pandemic).
…
In short, the IRS appears to have fallen down on the job. But Democrats on the Ways and Means Committee—who promised to carry out a thorough review of the IRS's presidential audit program, yet instead made a hair-trigger decision to release Trump's tax returns—fell down on the job as well. And as a consequence, a pox on both Trump and the IRS has become a pox on the House too.
I think Hemel is correct that this situation reflects poorly on both the Trump Administration and the House. But in the long run, there is another concern: the Supreme Court. Chief Justice Roberts, in particular, may feel played. The Ways & Means Committee insisted that the returns were necessary for a legislative purpose. Then the Committee releases all of the returns, without any explanation for why that disclosure served that legislative purpose. Trump's arguments about pretext look a lot stronger. Wouldn't it have been enough for the Committee to simply request information about how often the returns of Trump, and other Presidents were audited? Why were the specifics of the returns needed?
In the long run, the House will feel the burn. Going forward, the Court may be less likely to give deference to a House Committee seeking to perform oversight of the executive branch. The Ways & Means Committee may have won the battle, but the prognosis for the war looks bleak.
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SCOTUS was played. The release of the tax form was unnecessary for the House to fulfill its investigatory duties. The release was purely to embarrass and politically damage Mr Trump. Sure he deserves it, but the House showed its self to be at be disingenuous in its request and Roberts has been clowned again.
"SCOTUS was played. "
Nah, they were volunteers not victims. Every sentient human knew the Dems fully intended to release them once received.
Gotta agree. Being "played" would have required them to be more gullible than is really plausible.
100% pretending that there was any other agenda here is silly. The only intent was political advantage. Nobody thinks otherwise.
Sometimes in law, things that "everyone knows" are irrelevant. In this case, it was directly on point. The deference should always go to the individual, not to the government.
Roberts is an idiot. He cares more about his "legacy" than owning the libs, but in the long term, owning the libs (and ultimately, herding them into showers of Zyklon B) is the only thing that will save America.
If he cares about his legacy he should consider being something other than an accomplice in their intentional destruction of the institutions and their reputations, SC included.
More Pinochet. You forgot “dropping libs from helicopters.” Please try harder next time. Your fantasies about mass murder need to be more lurid to fully engage the reader. Showers sound so mundane. 5/10, needs work.
So, the R's can't release Biden's taxes in the future because Roberts got punked by Pelosi. Nice - a twofer for her.
Got good news for you as to Biden's taxes!
Biden is paying taxes on his " Big Guy" rake-offs?
ChrisC : “So, the R’s can’t release Biden’s taxes in the future….”
(1) Biden released 22 years of his tax returns, so that little revenge fantasy is slightly anticlimactic.
(2) Speaking of being “played”, the number-one candidate is the American public. During the ’16 campaign, they were told Trump would release his tax returns very, very soon. Any day now. Just a wee bit longer. Just around the corner.
He continued this lie deep into his presidency, until finally reaching a point where he flipped the narrative and said he wouldn’t release them because the public didn’t care. After all, they’d accepted not seeing them for so long!
If that doesn’t count as huckster-grade “played”, I don’t know what does….
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/oct/31/joe-biden/yes-joe-biden-has-released-22-years-tax-returns-on/
Biden didn't release his S-Corp tax returns. That's where he funneled his millions of dollars of income through, in order to hide it and avoid paying self-employment taxes.
S-corporation income is 1) taxed a the personal rate and 2) reported on an individual's 1040. Nice try, though.
Pathetic try, actually.
Projection, actually. After whoring for a corrupt sleazy criminal four long years, Armchair desperately wants to sell the meme that Biden is crooked. Too bad it's all a crock o'shit and he has less than zero evidence....
Not quite. It can be used to save a bundle on self employment taxes.
Here's a primer.
https://www.collective.com/blog/tax-tips/freelancing-full-time-heres-how-you-can-save-5000-or-more-in-taxes/
There’s also Hunter's tax returns.
Who cares about them?
The taxes were always a gross political issue and nothing more.
Attempting to make another issue go away?
go away., grb.
You're just harassing.
I think that, broadly speaking, Trump's finances have some importance.
Look, here is a guy running for President who claims, as an important credential, that he is a fabulous, genius, businessman. His supporters repeat this frequently.
OK. If that's a major credential then it is quite reasonable to ask him to document it. I mean, suppose a job applicant shows up and claims whatever - a Ph. D. in microbiology with research in some specific area you are working on. What is your reaction if he then refuses to let you see his dissertation, or other papers, and generally won't provide any documentation?
It’s a bizarre twist of history to remember swing voters picked Trump because (a) Hillary wasn’t honest, so let’s elect the most grotesque liar in the history of American politics, and (b) we should try a successful businessman, so let’s elect someone whose business career is a continuous record of non-stop bungling.
Not fair. A lot of Trump's business model was extortion and fraud. Those are the intentional acts . . . the non-stop bungling was just a result of Trump negligence and of being a shitty businessman (with the exception of recognizing the opportunity of being on "The Apprentice.").
" A lot of Trump’s business model was extortion and fraud."
SM,
your observation is exactly the point. Those characteristics of Trump were very well known and documented even without the tax returns.
"I think that, broadly speaking, Trump’s finances have some importance. "
I'll buy that bernard, in the sense that they can shed like on ethical standards, business practices, etc. But until tax returns are demanded by law, they remain voluntary and the public must make its judgement on the basis of other evidence.
In the case of Trump, there was plenty of evidence in the public domain of his unsavory character.
Politicians lie. Film at 11.
Wouldn't the lie, if there was one, have been told by the lawyer for the Committee? If so, he's got some splainin' to do.
Not if he just told Roberts what the Committee lyingly told him.
Why would the lawyer for the Committee be presumed to have any special non-privileged knowledge of what the Committee would actually do?
From a New Yorker interview with Richard Neal, the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-rationale-for-releasing-trumps-taxes
Since former President Trump is now a private citizen, what is the point of releasing them to the public? Can you explain why that’s necessary?
Well, I think the real answer is that we now know that the mandatory audits never took place.
Okay, so you’re saying that the people need to be able to look over them because the government did not?
That’s right.
Not sure I buy it, but lets not pretend there is no rationale here - if you want Trump's tax returns looked at, after the IRS failed to, and with the House turning over, this is one way to do it.
I tend to think there is more politics to this. But also that the IRS being asleep at the wheel demonstrates that there absolutely was a legit legislative reason. Just not the only reason.
So anyone pretending it was illegal are being silly. But anyone pretending the release wasn't also political are similar.
"Not sure I buy it, but lets not pretend there is no rationale here – if you want Trump’s tax returns looked at, after the IRS failed to, and with the House turning over, this is one way to do it."
Sure, there's a rationale, but let's not pretend it was a legislative one. Their stated legislative purpose was to determine whether the IRS was doing Presidential audits. You only need IRS's records on whether an audit was performed to know that. There's nothing at all the tax returns themselves can add to that. You're absolutely right that their only reason was that they wanted the public to look at Trump's tax returns, and that's exactly the problem.
Their stated legislative purpose was to determine whether the IRS was doing Presidential audits. You only need IRS’s records on whether an audit was performed to know that. There’s nothing at all the tax returns themselves can add to that.
Not really. What you would like is to look at the returns and then the work the IRS did on the audit. It's easy enough to have a sham audit.
In fact, that seems to be what happened in one case, where a single agent was assigned the job.
Why does the public need to see the returns? We know the IRS didn't audit them. Why not have hearings and or investigations to determine why?
"...anyone pretending it was illegal are[is?] being silly..."
If it wasn't in pursuit of a legislative purpose it was illegal.
It obviously wasn't. Attempting to score points on Trump isn't a "legislative purpose".
So the one being silly is you.
Obviously! They're drafting a law right now, but I'm sure that's just fakery to fool those not as savvy as yourself.
Do the specifics of Trump's taxes have anything to do with the bill being drafted?
You're not fooled. You're just glaringly dishonest.
You have proven able to engage and argue.
And yet like 70% of your posts are just empty insults.
Is that really what you want to do?
I think I agree with you fully.
Illegal? Unlikely.
Unethical? perhaps.
Blatantly, dirty politics? Of course.
If the IRS did not do its job. Releasing the returns just before losing control of the House is hardly a valid legislative reason.
So he admits the reason wws political, to embarrass the president.
He needs embarrassing. But misusing powers of investigation (right along predicted lines at that) is not the way to do it.
Powerful, wealthy people are in a much worse state than a driver being followed by a cop, who can find something you did wrong in a few minutes, they have their fingers in so many pies.
That's why the king was forbidden going on fishing expeditions against his political enemies.
The glee with which politicians bypass this shows they are not good stewards of principles, but age old hacks the founding fathers tried to guard against.
Section 6103(f) does grant limit right to the house ways and means committee and the senate finance committee for legitimate legislative purposes. With very limited exceptions, that right is limited to members of those committees.
There are criminal penalties for disclosure of tax return information (a felony).
Doesnt seem to be any exceptions that the members of those committees would have for a public release of Trumps (or any other president) without a written release from the taxpayer.
The constitutional exception for a congressman in pursuant of their congressional duties doesnt apply to a felony.
Can anyone point to specific authority that would allow the release of Trumps tax returns without his express permission ( or any other president without their express permission)
It is illegal for the IRS to release tax returns without authorization.
It is not illegal for members of the general public to do so, including the Washington Post in 2016 and now House legislators.
"They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place."
Members of Congress are very practiced at using this particular clause to get away with illegally releasing information.
Some of them are also very practiced at using it to avoid security checkpoints and pretend like they still have a right to attend a speech by a foreign Head of State who is currently at war and targeted for assassination.
By the way, I missed your response yesterday as to how you managed to accuse others of having not read the W&M Committee report, when you clearly didn't even make it to the bottom of page 1.
Here's your second chance!
Wrong. The Speech and Debate clause does not contain any such exception. The felony exception is to the provision that they can't be arrested during their attendance at legislative sessions or travel to those sessions.
I think SC knew it was being played and went along wink and nod. All those Harvard and Yale grads knew it was a pretext.
And so what if it was? Congress has broad subpoena power over tax records because of the inherent conflict in the executive branch investigating itself for bribery and corruption. I don't subscribe to the view that political figures have much privacy. If you put yourself up for public scrutiny, in a presidential election, all is fair game. As they say, all's fair in love, war, and politics. Or withdraw. If 50% of the voting public wants to see tax records before or after they vote for a candidate, Supreme Court can't stop it.
Cool. Can I have the abortion records of every female relative of any Democrat running for office? After all, how can a Democrat be objective with the public in the discharge of his duties if one of his slut daughters had an abortion?
It will probably be leaked. See: Herschel Walker. Stuff the public wants to know about politicians has a way of getting out, always, since the very first presidential election.
Or how, magically, the sealed divorce records of Jeri and Jack Ryan were made public.
"Supreme Court can’t stop it."
That they don't have the intestinal fortitude or morality to do their duty doesn't meet MY definition of "can't".
In response to sarcastro
A) Whether the IRS conducted the mandontory audits or not, the house ways and means committee has no authority to release the returns.
B) release of tax return information is a felony.
C) The constitutional exception for a congressmans actions as a congressman do not apply to the commission of a felony.
See sections 6103, 7212 & 7216 of the IRC
Joe,
Let's see whether Trump sues the members. If not Fuggetaboutit
'Hair-trigger"? That rather omits some important context: Trump attempted to run out the clock on this with frivolous litigation. He almost succeeded. There were only about two weeks left for Democrats on the Ways and Means Committee to do anything before the incoming GOP House shuts down anything that might even look like it might inconvenience Trump in any way.
All else being equal, they probably shouldn't have released the returns — but if the choice is between release them or bury the entire issue never to see the light of day again, releasing was the better option.
"All else being equal, they probably shouldn’t have released the returns — but...releasing was the better option."
Don't quite follow this. Also, what is the "entire issue" that justifies releasing the returns?
Maybe you'd follow it better if you hadn't omitted the middle part of the quote which gave you the answer you now seek.
You mean that all else is not equal because of the "entire issue"? What is the "entire issue"?
It's Trump.
jimc5499 : “It’s Trump”
Kinda like, “It’s just Chinatown” at the end of the eponymous film. We’ll never (hopefully) see another political figure as sleazy and corrupt as Donald Trump.
Sometimes it’s the little things that hold the imagination. When I think of Trump’s rancid criminality, I don’t remember him trying to trade America’s foreign policy favor for private gain (his first impeachment) or all his grotesque attempts to steal an election he lost (his second impeachment), but instead one tiny detail:
When some of his earlier tax returns leaked to the press, reporters discovered Trump used his “charity” to pay little Don Jr’s seven dollar Boy Scout fee. This supposed billionaire didn’t pull out his wallet like any other dad would do; the urge to scam and defraud was just too great. And that is the criminal mind in all its wretched glory: Someone who goes out of his way to break the law…..
There's literally a man in office right now who's son sold access to him while he was vice president. To the Chinese and Russians, no less. If the media were as intellectually curious about the activities of Joe Biden and his son as they are about Trump, what do you reckon they'd find?
But no, the real "criminal" is the most investigated politician in history that has been prosecuted exactly zero times, lol.
And of course, you have proof that Hunter Biden "sold access to" Joe Biden while he was Vice President, right? Oh, I forgot, you were sick the day they taught law at law school.
"There’s literally a man in office right now who’s son sold access to him while he was vice president."
A Ukrainian interest paid him handsomely and, wow, has the famously corrupt country gotten a massive return on investment there.
Orange man bad much more important than any breaking of the law by the good guys.
Why, says Nieporent, if Trump doesn't give up his rights without a struggle he might actually retain them!
Ah yes! The "it's Trump" exemption for the Democrats to break a law.
What's that line I've heard about elections having consequences? If "the entire issue" gets buried, it's because a new Congress is taking office. Old Congress doesn't get to flout the law just because they think that the new Congress the people elected won't do it right. They can carry on in accordance with the law and push for whatever resolution of "the issue" they want, and the duly elected Congress will do with that as it wills.
Besides, they were just fulfilling Trump's own wishes! He expressly said that he wanted to release the returns but he couldn't because they were under audit. Since they in fact weren't, Trump must have been misinformed, and he wanted them released.
You're an idiot.
Nah, he's just an evil progressive with that marxism "by any means necessary" attitude for how power should be attained by his team.
It's true; everyone here knows I'm a wild-eyed progressive.
You've certainly been acting like it lately.
This comment is why eliminating threading of replies was a blessing, albeit short lived.
Good point DN.
Did you leave off the "/sarc"? Serious question. There's that "law" about such tone failing transmission in print, and I'd like to know how high/low an opinion I ought to have of you.
not a serious question
I'll be the judge of that. And of you.
Technically speaking, his 2010 tax returns were still under audit.
What a solid Congress did for Trump, then, cutting through that red tape!
One more concern that enlargement of the Supreme Court would address.
Carry on, clingers. While you still can, anyway.
One more concern that enlargement of the Supreme Court would address.
Do you really think that a tit for tat adjustment in the size of the Supreme Court every time control of Congress changes hands would be a positive development?
" every time control of Congress changes hands "
Volokh Conspiracy-level legal analysis . . . always a treat!
Are you new here? The phrase “Do you really think” contains a word with no application to any post by Artie, who has shit for brains and bad breath to match..
OK, Jerry, still don't see any word on your Commutation/(even Stuttering John Fetterman has his limits on who he'll commute) I've heard some X-Offenders prefer being in the "Joint" (do they still call it that??)
Speaking of creepy old men, if you want an enlarged Surpreme (you really want that Klinger Disanto picking them? don't think you'll like his picks) wake up Senescent Joe and Fancy Nancy, you'se guys only control the House for another week or so.
Frank
These are your people, Volokh Conspirators.
And a substantial part of the reason your colleagues at legitimate law schools avoid you at holiday gatherings.
Don't project your experiences at holiday partys onto anyone else, shit-breath.
You are an apt representative of the Volokh Conspiracy's fans.
Did John Roberts not know that this could happen, and likely would? He's made so many partisan decisions on matters of greater consequence, but he also wants to protect his historical reputation. I suspect he believes that Trump is bad for the Republican party, so his partisan inclination works against protecting Trump. And then he has cover for how non-partisan he is when the Republicans control the House and pursue every conspiracy theory possible with full SCOTUS support; we should expect every Hunter Biden tax return to be released in the next two years (or more likely, obtained but misrepresented thoroughly).
In reply to David N.
"They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place. 1 W."
Looks like I partially mistated the speach and debate clause.
My point is that the speech and debate clause doesnt give the committee members an escape clause from the commission of a felony. sections 7216 & 7212 for the felony for the release of tax return information.
You underestimate the ability of the judiciary to ignore the exceptions and roll releasing tax returns into the category “Speech or Debate in either House”. See, e.g., the decision that Fauxcahontas’ defamation of the Covington Kids by press release was thus protected from legal action.
Quit whining, clinger.
Or whine some more. All that really matters is your continuing compliance with the preferences of your betters.
You ain't one of my betters, shit-breath.
David Nieporent 2 mins ago
Flag Comment Mute User
"Besides, they were just fulfilling Trump’s own wishes! He expressly said that he wanted to release the returns but he couldn’t because they were under audit. Since they in fact weren’t, Trump must have been misinformed, and he wanted them released."
7216 7212 as I recall require express permission. The claim that he wanted them released is dubious given all the facts surrounding its history
I see joe_dallas is using his patented "I saw something on the healthy skeptic blog so it must be true" approach to the issue:
What authority do you think a committee needs in order to release documents it possesses?
As noted above, wrong.
I am mystified by what you think 7212 — which is about threats against people trying to collect taxes — or 7216 — which is about tax preparers — has to do with the issue. 6103 at least is superficially relevant, except that the restrictions it imposes do not apply to Congress.
As DALLAS notes, the text reads, "...in all Cases, except Treason, FELONY and Breach of the Peace..." so your "notes" remain error no matter how many times you write or repeat them.
You're reading it wrong. There's a semicolon, separating the Speech and Debate clause from the rest of the sentence. The stuff about felonies doesn't apply to it.
And for the record, violation of § 7216 is a misdemeanor, not a felony.
We all know they were. But never fear, citizens or future Presidents, because it's just TrumpLaw. We'll soon be back to requiring a "legitimate legislative purpose" for Congressional subpoenas, and harassment of political adversaries will no longer qualify.
TrumpLaw: legal precedents only applicable to Donald Trump to be disregarded when a "real" president is in office.
Not a thing. Just the persecution complex that Trump supporters seem to require to be able to look at themselves in the mirror.
I'm going to go out on a limb and credit you for having reasonable intelligence. I think you are perfectly aware of the obvious reality that the Democrats have conducted an unprecedented campaign of lawfare against Trump and those they perceive as his allies, but you gleefully support it because you are a hyper-partisan who supports the Democrats no matter what, as one might support a local sports team.
I doubt the government has ever expended as much time and resources against an American as it has against Donald Trump. Unlike those consumed with anti-Trump hysteria, I can see envision the world beyond Trump and can see the terrible potential ramifications of these precedents going forward. I almost envy your inability to do the same.
The Clintons would like a word with you.
Not even close!
1) I don't have a lot of glee about Trump, nor any potential comeuppance. Cleaning up dog-doo is a necessity, but it's not really gonna give me high satisfaction.
2) You didn't even realize you switched from 'judges have double standards for Trump' to 'Democrats are persecuting Trump.'
Because to you, the important thing is that Trump is persecuted, who cares by who.
You’re lying and coiling and twisting, as always, Gaslightr0. Wolf said nothing about Democrats. He said TrumpLaw, which is engaged in both by evil Democrats and useless and nasty GOP NeverTrumpers.
So you do this thing where you post replies all in like the space of 20 mins and it makes you read like a dumbass.
Wolf complained about TrumpLaw. When pressed he pivoted right to Democrats persecuting Trump in his reply. That failure to stay on topic is telling.
You also have a bad habit of imputing dishonesty and bad breath to those you disagree with.
I don’t “impute” it, I observe it and call it out for what it is.
Your misrepresentation of what Wolf said requires ignoring that bit about “the government”. He didn’t “switch”, merely supplied detail on who engages in TrumpLaw. As did I. Only a gaslighter like you would imagine you can get away with claiming that he had somewhere limited that to judges.
Keep digging, shit-breath dumbass.
Despite all your insults, I'm glad you're engaging on this. Better than your usual; though that is a low bar.
OG objection: TrumpLaw: legal precedents only applicable to Donald Trump to be disregarded when a “real” president is in office.
New objection: Democrats have conducted an unprecedented campaign of lawfare against Trump and those they perceive as his allies.
Except he didn't seem to realize he was making a new objection. Which is, as I said, notable. It shows that Trump being persecuted is the only clarity; all else is malleable, to get to that conclusion.
You can "envision the world beyond Trump and can see the terrible potential ramifications of these precedents going forward.” That’s a disturbing thought, but I hope you’re right. That is, I hope every president — male or female, Democrat or Republican — who mishandles national secrets, cheats on taxes, defrauds charities, steals government property, attempts to overthrow elections, obstructs justice, and incites thugs to attack the Capitol and try to prevent Congress from performing its Constitutional duties gets treated exactly the way Trump has been treated.
And I hope you'll choke on your own lying bile and die, but so what?
Poor Ms. Gandy. The truth hurts, doesn't it? After the first of the year, when the indictments start coming from the federal courts and the state courts in Georgia and New York, you're going to be crying yourself to sleep, aren't you?
You have a powerful imagination, but no clue.
I find it difficult to believe F.D. Wolf is a lawyer.
You find all sorts of thinking difficult, shit-breath, but we already know that.
Once again Prof. Blackman's partisan attitude Trumps an objective analysis, and so his credibility remains near absolute zero.
What the House did was consistent with the law, the statutory law. And remember, Trump himself said that he was happy to release his taxes if they were not under audit. But some of the years were not under audit (as a compliant Treasury Dept. disregarded the law), so the House was just doing what Trump said he wanted to do, unless he was lying about that and we all know that whatever else we think about Trumpster, he don't lie.
Which "law, the statutory law," do you mean?
Does this work for you?
26 U.S. Code § 6103 - Confidentiality and disclosure of returns and return information
. . . .
(f)Disclosure to Committees of Congress
(1)Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation
Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.
(2)Chief of Staff of Joint Committee on Taxation
Upon written request by the Chief of Staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish him with any return or return information specified in such request. Such Chief of Staff may submit such return or return information to any committee described in paragraph (1), except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.
(3)Other committees
Pursuant to an action by, and upon written request by the chairman of, a committee of the Senate or the House of Representatives (other than a committee specified in paragraph (1)) specially authorized to inspect any return or return information by a resolution of the Senate or the House of Representatives or, in the case of a joint committee (other than the joint committee specified in paragraph (1)) by concurrent resolution, the Secretary shall furnish such committee, or a duly authorized and designated subcommittee thereof, sitting in closed executive session, with any return or return information which such resolution authorizes the committee or subcommittee to inspect. Any resolution described in this paragraph shall specify the purpose for which the return or return information is to be furnished and that such information cannot reasonably be obtained from any other source.
Many words here about the right of the committee to receive the returns. Many words about the confidentiality of proceedings concerning said concerns. Nothing about making the confidential documents public.
Nope. Your claim was, “What the House DID was consistent with the law, the statutory law.” Nothing there about RELEASING anything, which is what the Committee “did”. Indeed, there’s all that business about closed or executive sessions to indicate that RELEASING the returns is contrary to the statutory intent of granting the authority to obtain them.
Nothing there about not releasing the returns either. But again, the Commitee was only doing Trump's bidding with respect to the returns not under audit, and personally I do object to releasing them when the filer objects.
Remember, in our system of laws most of the time a person can do something unless it is specfically prohibited. This is the whole philosophy around Qualfied Immunity, a terrible, terrible thing but one that is allowed by law. (If it is not specifically prohibited for a law enforcement officer to torture a person, then they can do it and not be subject to litigation.)
"...the Commitee(sic) was only doing Trump’s bidding with respect to the returns... I do object to releasing them when the filer objects."
Trump objected to the Committee even getting them, but you are going to claim he didn't object to releasing them?
Try again.
Right, I am. Of course in doing so I am taking Trump at his word, so my bad.
"Nothing there about not releasing the returns either. "
No but plenty of words insisting on confidentiality and closed hearings, etc. Your argument is specious.
Plenty of words, and if you rearrange them to form new sentences you can get them to say lots of things.
I agree it would be a better statute if it didn't give carte blanche to those Congressional committees. Maybe the drafters were too trusting in the benevolence of Congress, and should have written down the constraints they thought norms would provide. But they didn't, and so the statute we have today allows those committees to demand and receive income tax information, and to release it to Congress in open session.
The entire section you quoted restricts how and when the IRS can or must release tax returns.
The IRS is required to maintain confidentiality. Legislators aren't. Neither are members of the general public, which is why the Washington Post did not break the law when it published Trump's older returns.
Which makes one wonder when somebody will file a suit disputing even filing tax returns at all given how lax the security around them is and that you have to admit extremely personal things about yourself.
Democrats spent almost a decade caterwauling and finally resorted to lying to the Supreme Court to get Trump’s tax returns. Turns out the tax returns say nothing interesting.
Better people might have some regrets about what they’d let themselves become. There are small numbers expressing such reservations. The vast majority of them are still all in on hatred and corrupt anything goes tactics.
Remember, they also went caterwauling to the Supreme Court to ensure that the right to ejaculate into the anus of another man was codified into the Constitution.
This shows where the priorities of these sick animals are.
This is the audience your white, male, right-wing blog attracts, Volokh Conspirators.
And the reason you operate at the disaffected, obsolete, bigot-hugging fringe of modern America.
So, what's attracting YOU, stinky?
I believe mocking bigoted clingers and spotlighting the hypocrisy of right-wingers who misappropriate the franchises of legitimate educational institutions are worthwhile endeavors.
It's a marketplace of ideas. If you object to having this blog's stream of misleading polemics and low-grade hypocrisy leavening with a bit of content from the liberal-libertarian mainstream, ask the proprietor to censor or ban me. He has done it before. He might do it again if you ask nicely.
You might want to include a vile racial slur in your request.
Good luck.
"You might want to include a vile racial slur in your request."
That the "content from the liberal-libertarian mainstream:" you actually provide is an implied slur against EV is noted with impatience.
Could someone translate from clinger to English? Not necessarily standard English -- but something intelligible?
Thank you.
What is actually interesting, or actually frightening, is that the solons of the Democrat Party have still managed, after 8 or so years of sparring with Trump, not to notice that he _does this all the time_. Someone says Trump is hiding something, and Trump fights tooth and nail, dramatically protesting too much. Aha! thinks his opponent, he's hiding something for sure! And then when they've finally spent years and millions making him give up the goods ...there's no there there.
Sounds like Obama's birth certificate.
In fairness, we alredy know he's a tax fraud.
Really?
Wonder why the IRS hasn't taken that up.
Maybe your simple hatred and TDS has scrambled what little brains you have and there's actually no fraud at all, just your dementia
Dems did not claim Trump had giant crimes hiding in his tax returns, though.
Only that he probably didn't pay many taxes, or make as much money as he said.
Oh hay, guess what?
Oh hey, now you know private info about someone's personal finances that you have no legitimate reason to know. Congrats. You spent a decade bitching and lied to the Supreme Court so you could become the town gossip.
Dude's running for President. We do have a legitimate reason to know.
And what was the lie to the Supreme Court? Because seems like there was a pretty good oversight reason, and new law is being drafted as we speak to deal with it.
"Dude’s running for President. We do have a legitimate reason to know."
If people don’t want to vote for him because he won’t release his tax returns, cool. There’s no requirement that he do so. Just because you really really want him to doesn’t give an excuse to ignore the law.
You are welcome to prefer that standard.
Mainstream America apparently could not care less about your preferences, which I sense is a chronic condition.
What law do you think was ignored?
"We do have a legitimate reason to know."
Actually not. Where is the requirement in law.
What you have is a desire to know.
Look up what legitimate means, and try again Don.
Come on.
S-0.
"legitimate?" did you mean "conforming to the law?
If so what law. Please give the US Code citation that makes your wanting to know legit.
Be honest. You were curious.
No, I clearly don’t mean as required by law.
Come on.
Confirmed: Democrats are illegitimate.
I said so, so according to S_0, it must be true.
Hey, you asked me to look up the word. I actually did.
You are confusing "legal entitlement to know" with "legitimate reason to know." We don't have the former; we do have the latter, for the reason Sarcastr0 stated.
You are conflating "legitimate reason to know” with "want to know what I have no legitimate reason to be told".
David,
You don't have a legitimate right. Only the desire that your proclaim. You don't get to define a word just to win your argument.
Once again, you got the word wrong. I didn't say "legitimate right." I said "legitimate reason."
If¹ my wife leaves the house at noon and tells me she's going out shopping, and then stumbles home hungover at 8:00 a.m. the next morning, I have no right to know where she was all night and what she was doing; I have a legitimate reason to know.
¹I emphasize that this is purely hypothetical.
"Dems did not claim Trump had giant crimes hiding in his tax returns..."
Gaslightr0 emits bald lies, again.
Sources, then.
Searching on your phrase, ddg turns up "Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-TX) of the House Ways and Means Committee said that Trump’s tax returns suggest that he had tens of millions of dollars in unsubstantiated claims."
https://www.politicususa.com/2022/12/20/trump-possible-tax-crimes.html
You needed me to do that for you why?
Oh dear, that statement appears to have been after the returns were released to the public. Not what I was talking about. And also hardly disproven at this point.
It seems once again in your usual 'I have 10 minutes to make 40 angry comments' you failed to read.
No you don’t.
Withholding them told us a lot about Dems. It was a smart choice by Trump. Hopefully everyone watching learned to do the same.
You're against transparency in the finances of those running for President. Great idea to never have that again, you say.
I disagree with this dumbass take, and would like to know about the finances of those I may vote for. It tells me a lot, and I like to know about those I'm voting for.
You don't though. Just team sports to you!
We learned Dems will remain obsessed for a decade. We learned Dems will lie to the Supreme Court.
We learned that Sarcastr0 is happy to go along and defend even that.
Dems keep showing us theirs is a criminal mentality. From the border to the ballot box to the courthouse, Dems will scheme and cheat and lie and loot absolutely as much as they can get away with.
So long as better Americans continue to stomp conservatives in the culture war and shape our national progress against the preferences and efforts of Republicans, your whining won't mean much.
Get better ideas or continue to be defeated at the modern American marketplace of ideas, clingers.
"You’re against transparency in the finances of those running for President. "
With all the blah-blah about "transparency in the finances of those running for President" where were the bills (especially in the House) for that as a legal requirement?
There was no such effort, only a call for one person to do so.
Is it honorable that other voluntarily release financial statements? Yes
Told us that Trump's a massive liar. Redundant at this point, yes, but it still hasn't sunk in for some people.
Turns out the tax returns say nothing interesting.
Because you're a tax expert, and you've studied them carefully?
Have they even been published yet?
They were quietly released late at night, right before Christmas because of all the bombshell revelations in them. Also let me refer you to all the breathless news coverage of said bombshell revelations: there is none.
Do you ever get tired of making up stories?
The Joint Committee on Taxation released summaries, and raised a number of potentially serious issues.
Of course you don't understand that, or ignore it, because you're dedicated cult member.
So no. The returns have not been released, and yes, what we know now does raise questions about their accuracy.
“Because you’re a tax expert, and you’ve studied them carefully?”
Presumably the Get Trump Committee has no shortage of tax experts and has studied the returns carefully and WE are entitled to draw the appropriate conclusions from the dogs not barking.
Much like the conclusions right-wingers have drawn about birtherism, Pizzagate, Italygate, "stolen elections," QAnon, Seth Rich, childish superstition, Vince Foster, Vincent Fusca, Paul Pelosi, vaccines, Donald Trump's character, adrenochrome, bleach, Satan-worshiping pedophiles, backwater religious schools, Wayfair, life in West Virginia, the Rothschilds, country music, the plandemic, the coming "storm," December 5 at Guantanamo, Hillary Clinton's imminent arrest, the living John F. Kennedy, the dead Tom Hanks, reptilian humanoids, and Jewish space lasers?
Carry on, clingers . . . until replacement.
David N, you realize that the returns Trump claimed were under audit predated his presidency (because the requests to release them also did), and the IRS audit policy that the House was supposedly so concerned about only applies to the sitting president, right? There's no mandatory audit for the president's prior-year returns.
And you realize that returns under audit can be released by the taxpayer with no problem at all?
We were talking about whether Congress had any remotely justifiable excuse to release Trump's returns. Your attempt at distraction just underlines that there is no such excuse.
‘any remotely justifiable excuse’
He’s a proven tax fraud, and running for the highest public office.
And when did Trump agree to release his, under audit or not?
To paraphrase someone here, even lying scumbags have rights. Trump did not want his returns released. There was no good reason to do so, other than politics. Everyone who is not a liar or a total moron knows that.
Trump said repeatedly that he wanted to release them.
Are you suggesting he was full of shit?
Trump said repeatedly that he wanted to release them.
After the auditing was completed. Is the auditing complete?
After the auditing was completed. Is the auditing complete?
He switched to that excuse later. And there was no audit of several years. Really, will you make any excuse at all for the guy?
The above quote was tweeted on February 27, 2016, well before the election. Nor am I a supporter of Donald Trump.
The record is damning for those attempting to defend Trump in this context.
But what should be expected of Kari Lake fans, other than efforts to revive a dead-and-buried horse?
"Trump said repeatedly that he wanted to release them."
And as we have established, he is a lying scumbag.
No, I am calling him a lying scumbag. But he still did not agree to release the returns. Which is legally required for the IRS to release them.
And Democrats said they really really wanted them for just legitimate oversight purposes....
Did they? Did they really say they "just" wanted them for that?
It's unfortunate that, despite your claims to the contrary, you're too partisan to so much as acknowledge the fact that the IRS failed to do its mandatory job for 'some reason' while Trump was in office.
But hey - you're sure quick to sling mud at the Democrats. What were you saying last week about not being partisan? Yet here we are. Odd.
Did they? Did they really say they “just” wanted them for that?
Are you proposing that their position in the courts was that they wanted the returns for purposes that were both legitimate and other than legitimate?
...the IRS failed to do its mandatory job for ‘some reason’ while Trump was in office.
Is that a justification for releasing the returns now? Can’t the IRS do its job under Biden? Can’t Biden get to the bottom of any dereliction of duty by the IRS under Trump?
I'm suggesting that they never excluded other reasons.
I have not made any argument for or against the releasing of the return information. While someone else may or may not be able to get to the bottom of why the IRS somehow failed to do it's required jobs under a GOP "President," it is Congress' job to write legislation to ensure that such bullshit does not happen again.
Note the scare quotes around "President".
An attack on Our Democracy!
But Orange Man Bad, obeying laws not so much.
You again, eh?
Your projection of why I put that word in quotation is just as wrong as anything else you've ever uttered around here.
Trump was the President in the sense of title. He was hardly a "President" in the ethical and leadership sense of the word.
Now, back to fucking off you may go.
I’m suggesting that they never excluded other reasons.
I guess I have to agree with you. In their OPPOSITION TO EMERGENCY APPLICATION FOR A STAY OF MANDATE they argued that as long as they are acting under a valid constitutional power it is irrelevant that they have other motives.
Whether Trump is full of shit has no bearing on whether the Dems and fellow travelers and YOU are full of shit.
"even lying scumbags have rights"
Well said.
And give millions of amateur accountants things to find wrong?
But the returns are beautiful.
You find figures entered into a government form beautiful? How odd. It ain't Pablo Picasso. It's not even Guido Picasso.
He's riffing on Trump's claim that the returns were "very beautiful" -- and perhaps they are, in a tax avoidance sense.
He's upset because his side lied to the public and to the Supreme Court, then voted to blatantly break the law, but he can't find a way to blame it all on conservatives.
No law was broken.
And even if they always wanted to release the returns there was also a legitimate legislative purpose.
Note that the Presidential audit business fell apart under Trump. Wonder why? So there is definitely a need for Congress to address the issue.
You lie. In every paragraph.
The idea that IRS procedures failing under an Obama appointee justifies releasing six years of Trump's tax returns... makes exactly as much sense as anything else you say.
I'm curious if you can recall who the boss of the IRS' boss was during Trump's time in office.
You know, the guy who brazenly broke the law in refusing to turn over the returns in the first place.
Nah, I'm sure he had nothing whatsoever with the failure for certain procedures to be followed while Trump was in office. Why would anyone think such a ridiculous thing when Mnuchin was willing to violate the plain text of the law with related issues?
Most of Trump's appointees deserve to rot to death in prison. If this weren't America, we'd actually punish corruption.
Eey, what do you have against Guido.
Richard Neal's statements in the New Yorker are BS, and as usual Sarcastro carries water for whatever lies his side of the aisle spouts. You don't need to release someone's tax returns, or even see them, for that matter, to ascertain whether the IRS audited them. If the concern is that the IRS is asleep at the wheel, all you need do is release enough documentation to show no audit took place. The contents of anyone's tax returns are irrelevant to that issue.
I repeat what I said in the other thread. The precedent now is that anyone investigated by a Congressional committee may have his tax returns subpoenaed, and then released, subject only to
(a) coming up with a colorable argument as to why they need them, and there are enough clever staffers to satisfy this; and
(b) the political will for the committee members to agree to release them.
Look forward to the GOP doing this to many others. The Dems always think that they will be in power forever, and forget the old adage, what's good for the goose, comes around to the other hand.
(Yeah Bernard, I mixed metaphors. Three, in fact. So sue me.)
The GOP should start collecting Dem officials' and donors' tax returns starting in January. Unless anyone can think of any reason why they shouldn’t.
Let's start with Soros, Hitlery, Obongo, Bloombitch, and anyone else who donates to left-wing causes.
Half-educated, roundly bigoted, delusional, disaffected, superstitious yahoos are among my favorite culture war casualties . . . and the precise target audience of this downscale, right-wing blog.
Nah, your repetitive bleating isn’t all that enjoyable, shit-for-brains.
Escalation would be a mistake because once Republicans use the House Ways and Means Committee to target Democratic donors, Democrats will feel justified in using the Senate Finance Committee (which has the same powers to receive and release income tax information) to target Republican donors. George Soros probably won't even notice the extra attention, but Larry Ellison, Peter Thiel, Ken Griffin, and Richard Uihlein will.
Better that the GOP House should stick with an eye-for-an-eye and release the returns of Democratic ex-presidents for the years they were in office and 2 years before.
The Obama Administration already used the IRS to go after Republicans. Can’t threaten to do it after you already did it.
So far no scrutiny of Dem donors though. The Hunter Biden and Sam Bankman-Fried examples show us that there’s potentially a lot of criminal activity to find.
Fuck off. Your side initiates a war and only once the retaliation becomes obvious even to the most TDS addled ignoramuses is the answer "don't retaliate against us" go to hell with that noise.
A war? The right is just so melodramatic.
My side?
Social, if I were the pro-Democrat you think I am I would be supporting Ben_'s escalation plan because, as I explained, Republicans will get the worst of it.
I would also be recommending that Democrats lay off Trump, for fear of making him irrelevant in 2024. It's much better for Democratic prospects that he remain in the mix, destroying the Republican party from within. Better for Democrats, but worse for the country.
Voize,
You caution a level of restraint that has not been seen in DC for decades.
Bored Lawyer, I posted what the justification was. I said I didn't really buy it.
You also appear not to have read what he actually said in my excerpt.
You're so fucking partisan you've gone blind, I think. You see only what you believe you should see, based on your partisan imagination.
Your post said the justification was to show that Trump had not been audited (which can be done without giving out the returns) and that others can now review them (which is BS, most people have no clue what they mean, and even for those who do, that has nothing to do with the IRS failing to audit him).
Yeah, I don't buy BS arguments that don't hold water. Good for you if you don't, either.
No, the justification was that Trump wasn’t going to get audited at this rate, which meant the returns would not be scrutinized at all. This lets others take a look.
I related my skepticism above – I fucking agree with you, once you figure out what the Senator was actually saying. You just can’t read at the moment.
I have to wonder how many times you verbally attacked Trump or agreed with a verbal attack on Trump for him agreeing with a position but using weasel words to do it.
"No, the justification was that Trump wasn’t going to get audited at this rate, "
You do realize that the Executive branch is headed by a Democrat, and has been for almost two years now, right? Because you're not showing any sign of being aware of it.
I don't think that's material. I don't think the party who appointed someone defines their every movement.
IRS clearly screwed up here, Brett.
"I didn’t really buy it" is a really weaselly way of "agreeing" that total bullshit is total and complete bullshit.
I don't really buy it is pretty clear. You just wish I was an easier target.
Well, I'd sue if I could find a good lawyer willing to take the case. Got any recommendations?
In any case, I disagree about not needing to see the returns. It's easy enough to have a sham audit. I'd want to see the returns and the auditor's work before I accepted that the audit had been done.
As if we won't notice how irrelevant that demand is when the complaint is that no audit was done at all.
Or that what you "want" is no excuse for breaking the law.
Under that logic, you would not accept that the IRS audits anyone, ever.
Totally agree there, bernard.
Why do you think this is needed?
The statute that allows three Congressional committees to receive income tax information requires only a written request, it doesn't need to be accompanied by an explanation.
The "legitimate legislative purpose" condition everyone is going on about was created by SCOTUS in Mazars based on Constitutional separation of powers principles. To apply to any target other than a sitting President it would have to be substantially broadened.
Delete.
Boy you can say that again huckeberry
Should be interesting if a House committee decides to demand the tax returns of say, Hunter Biden [or other members of that family, including the Big Guy]. Wonder what "it's a tax" Roberts will say then.
Nobody will really care, or expect any different, considering he's been a right wing target for a few years now.
Yes, the House should demand the tax returns of Joe Biden.
That will show him!
What an ignorant post.
Are you under the impression that “Hunter Biden [or other members of that family, including the Big Guy]” is just another way to say "Joe Biden"?
Yeah, when the Repubs take over the house they should demand, demand, demand Biden release his tax returns. Don't take no for an answer, make sure he releases all of them. Insist on it.
Oh, wait a minute . . . . .
I have concluded clingers genuinely are as stupid as this blog indicates.
That explains a lot about the guy clinging to the idea that the numbers on SCOTUS are going to soon be inflated enough to produce a Democrat majority.
Most Americans -- especially educated, reasoning Americans residing in modern, successful communities -- support Supreme Court enlargement.
Why wouldn't Democrats improve the Supreme Court in that manner -- in scrupulous compliance with established law and clear congruence with repeated precedent -- when they have the votes?
Yep. Joe should release his S-corp returns. Those he didn't actually release, and funnelled his millions of dollars of income through....
Sidney,
No so clever.
The R's have plenty of of nuisance requests to make. And they will make them.
They were going to make them anyway.
And absolutely ought to do it harder than they will.
Oh, I don't know, a little goes a long way with you lot. Look how mad you are because the tax returns of a tax cheat running for public office got released.
You don't know what?
Apart from anything.
I don't know if they'll go after them as hard as you'd like, obviously. Pay attention.
Don,
Whatever you think of the release, please don't tell me you think the Republicans are honorable.
Compared with whom?
Shithouse rats.
Bernard,
I never said that. Never!
They'll enjoy playing the similar dirty tricks games
I would have preferred they not release the returns, but I can appreciate that if they just published their findings without that supporting evidence many Trump supporters, including some commenters here, would be claiming "fake news" and that failing to disclose surely meant it was all a fabrication.
But I don't see what any of that has to do with SCOTUS being "played". The committee had a legislative purpose just like they said they did, and now understand that presidential audits have to be mandated by statute instead of relying on IRS convention. That isn't nullified by them using the information for a second purpose, even if I don't agree with their decision to do so.
Right. Some people can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Their only purpose was releasing them for political purposes. You're not even arguing otherwise let alone arguing with how their lies about needing them couldn't have been satisfied with less or were served by the public release.
He is literally arguing otherwise.
He's "literally" arguing that "needing them couldn’t have been satisfied with less or [the needs] were served by the public release" where?
“ Their only purpose was releasing them for political purposes.”
He is arguing otherwise.
Yiu are not reading.
To honestly answer
you have to quote the person referred to by "He" literally saying something. Try again. Or stop pretending to be honest. Pick one.
No, you parsed it wrong. And now you're relying on your previous bad parsing.
You really need to slow down your comment rampages. You misinterpret easy stuff all over the place.
Josh, can you please learn to use the "READ MORE >>" function?
The concept and its value seem easy enough for the the rest of the Conspirators to grasp.
Are there other laws which apply to the disclosure of tax returns to members of Congress?
26 U.S. Code § 6103 - Confidentiality and disclosure of returns and return information
(f) Disclosure to Committees of Congress
(1) Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation
Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.
Subsequent sections regarding Congress ALL include the same provisions: “… any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer, shall be furnished to the Senate or the House of Representatives only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.”
So the question arises, by what legal mechanism is a committee able to violate the closed executive session portion of the law and release the returns with the name associated with the returns?
§6103(f)(4)(A):
(f)(4)(B) permits other committees to forward return information to the House or Senate only in closed executive session, but there is no such restriction in (f)(4)(A).
Laws purporting to restrict what members of Congress can say in their official roles violate the "speech and debate" clause of constitution. They can reveal nuclear secrets, out spies, burn intelligence sources, show stolen celebrity selfies, and so on.
The consequences are political rather than legal. Congress can expel troublemakers. The President can make Congress fight for information that used to be given freely.
You need to reread the Speech and Debate Clause and this time notice the exceptions.
There is no exception in the Speech & Debate clause.
There are exceptions to other clauses of that section of the constitution. But the Speech & Debate clause is categorical: "for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place."
But again, this is all a red herring because no law restricted them from releasing Trump's returns.
... the only legitimate legislative purpose was to uncover that Congress is allowed to publicize anyone's tax returns, and thus they need to fix those laws?
Whether they had a legitimate legislative purpose is the legal test for whether their request for the documents was enforceable. It is not the legal test for what they can do with the documents after they obtain them.
Are you a student at or graduate of South Texas College Of Law Houston?
Liberty? Regent? Ave Maria?
I don't want to see Biden's tax returns, but I think we should demand that the graves of his first wife and of Beau are disinterred for an additional autopsy. After all, how can we trust that he didn't kill them without an independent autopsy? And since the public has the right to know the President isn't a killer, it absolutely should be done.
I Think we all know Vince foster groomed them and then killed them and then Hilary did him in in turn. Why belabor it?
We all know that Trump is full of shit but why illegally belabor it?
I think that the tax returns of all elected officials, and SES-level employees of federal agencies should be required to divulge their tax returns (including any partnership members, or spouses, if the returns are comingled).
Else, how will be able to verify that the current policies to prevent corruption are sufficient?
Whether that "should" be the case is irrelevant to the question of whether ILLEGALLY releasing them is OK.
If you genuinely believe unlawful conduct has occurred, file a complaint in court.
Kari Lake's lawyers should be available any day now . . . well, between dismissal of their current case and the disciplinary proceedings, anyway. Or maybe some members of Trump Election Litigation: Elite Strike Force still have their law licenses, at least for a bit longer.
Carry on, clinger.
Trump's returns are long and complex, as was anticipated regarding a taxpayer who has amassed a substantial portfolio of assets and investment vehicles primarily, though not entirely, through real estate investment and development. The information contained in the K-1's and other forms from pass-through entities alone (many of which have Trump as a passive rather than active investor) violates the privacy of a great many other folks.
I get some K-1's.
They don't have any information about other partners, not even their names.
Well, we (US Taxpayers) have no presumption now that tax returns will remain private (absent indictment and trial).....
Why should we pay our taxes now?
And Congress should remember that what goes around, comes around.
That may become an issue. I spent most of my career as a government tax lawyer and I am very protective of the secrecy of tax return information. This action infuriates me.
I am a government tax lawyer and I am outraged by this. I knew that Congress was going to do this. It is going to make Republicans and Conservatives less confident in government and the IRS. We have to file tax returns under threat of criminal penalties, but this info can only be used in narrow ways. Not any more.
Republicans already refuse to fund the IRS agents needed to ensure people like Trump don't get away with tax fraud.
"But did you SEE the dress she was wearing?"
Ha, ha, ha! And people said that Republicans can't be funny!
I'm only confident that they are evil.
But then I am neither Republican nor Conservative.
Let me guess -- you're "often libertarian," just like the Volokh Conspiracy!
Are you American?
I am actually in agreement with Arthur on this one. Well done Gandydancer.
I guess Congress can release anything now. Hell, they could demand the nuclear codes and procedures, then release them to the public. I look forward to the Republicans in the House getting access to tax returns for prominent Democrat contributors, then releasing them.
I expect the courts to refuse Congress the access absent much more proof of need. The Supreme Court will probably be reluctant to let Congress have its way based on this kind of pretext going forward. So Hunter Biden's tax returns are safe, as are those for the Democrat contributors.
"Hell, they could demand the nuclear codes and procedures, then release them to the public."
That is very unclear. That information is fully protected by legislation and updates over the past 65 years.
You could fully expect prosecution for releasing information so protected.
Yes, they can. They always could. Senator Gravel put the entire Pentagon Papers into the Congressional Record.
Good point.
There are two limits on what Congress can release.
First, they are limited by what they can access. They can't release nuclear codes that the executive branch won't give them.
Second, although members aren't subject to discipline from the executive or judicial branches for what they do in session they are limited by what each House will permit under its own rules. A single member gone off the rails won't get very far without support from a sizable number of other members.
If you want to worry about someone doing something stupid you should worry more about an unhinged President who can unilaterally do all kinds of crazy stuff. In many cases the only limit would be at the point where someone is willing to disobey an order.
By the way, I love how Blackman, as usual, tries to make this personal to John Roberts, and all the MAGA sheep here are going along with that. The decision he's pretending that Roberts was "played" about was 7-2.