The Volokh Conspiracy
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EEOC Sues Over Employer's Refusing Religious Exemption from Flu Vaccine Requirements
From this press release sent out last Friday (see also the Complaint):
Children's Healthcare of Atlanta (CHOA), a pediatric healthcare system in Georgia, violated federal law when it fired a maintenance assistant for requesting a religious exemption to its influenza vaccination policy, the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) charged in a lawsuit it filed today.
According to the EEOC's suit, the maintenance employee, in accordance with CHOA's procedures, requested a religious exemption to CHOA's flu vaccination requirements based on sincerely held religious beliefs. CHOA had previously granted the employee a religious exemption in 2017 and 2018. In 2019, however, CHOA denied the employee's request for a religious accommodation and fired him, despite the employee's extremely limited interaction with the public or staff.
Such alleged conduct violates Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits firing an employee because of his religion and requires that sincerely held religious beliefs be accommodated by employers. The EEOC filed suit …, after first attempting to reach a pre-litigation settlement via its conciliation process. The EEOC is seeking back pay, front pay, compensatory damages and punitive damages for the employee, as well as injunctive relief to prevent future discrimination.
"It would not have been an undue burden for CHOA to continue accommodating its employee as it had in 2017 and 2018," said Marcus G. Keegan, regional attorney for the EEOC's Atlanta District Office. "Instead, CHOA inexplicably changed its stance on flu vaccination exemptions for this maintenance employee in 2019 and failed to consider any meaningful reasonable accommodations for his sincerely held religious beliefs."
Darrell Graham, district director of the Atlanta office, said, "Religion is defined to include all aspects of religious observance and practice, as well as belief, and the EEOC stands ready to enforce an employer's statutory obligation to reasonably accommodate the religious observances and practices of its employees where doing so would not be an undue hardship on the conduct of the employer's business."
Recall that Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as amended in 1972, expressly requires religious exemptions from generally applicable private and public employer work rules, if
- an employee sincerely believes the rule conflicts with the employee's religious beliefs, and
- the employer can "make reasonable accommodations, short of undue hardship, for [those] religious practices," such as by exempting the employee from the work rules.
I expect that the litigation will chiefly focus on how much of a hardship to the employer would be caused by granting an exemption from the vaccination mandate to the employee, given the employee's specific work obligations.
Thanks to Prof. Howard Friedman (Religion Clause) for the pointer.
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According to the First Circuit (but perhaps not the Fifth) this is how vaccination challenges are supposed to work. If you're serious enough in your belief to get disciplined or fired, then the courts can review the policy. It's nice to have government lawyers on your side for a change. Will the EEOC go on to sue everybody who fired employees who claimed religious reasons for refusing COVID vaccines?
Meanwhile, the 1st Circuit allows a blatantly unconstitutional magazine ban to take effect in Rhode Island.
Never! I’ll give up my Economist when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!
Ha!
hmm! flu vaccines/"shots" have historically been maybe 50% effective while the covid vaccine has been maybe 60-90% effective for up to 6 months.
Is the federal government being consistent in its enforcement based on legal justifications, Is the federal government being consistent based on current medical knowledge?
Note that the covid vaccines were advertised as being 90%+ effective at their introduction.
Also note that many of the studies showing vax was much more effective against serious illness were understating the unvaxed population, thus using an invalid denominator and thus showing much higher per capita serious illness and much higher per capita deaths among the unvaxed. After correcting for the data error in the Minnesota data base, the per capita death rate for the unvaxed was only running at approx 1.5x vs the originally reported 3x-5x per capita death rate. Several other states have similar data base errors.
“flu vaccines/”shots” have historically been maybe 50% effective”
Flu vaccines are around 90% effective against the strain(s) it was developed to fight. Most people who catch the flu after being vaccinated get a secondary strain which the vaccine wasn't designed for.
so "90 % effective" against the "Strains it was developed to fight"
which this year are an 1:A/Wisconsin/588/2019 (H1N1) pdm09-like virus;
2: A/Darwin/6/2021 (H3N2)-like virus (updated);
3: B/Austria/1359417/2021-like virus (B/Victoria lineage) (updated);
4: B/Phuket/3073/2013-like virus (B/Yamagata lineage).
Only problem is there's other Flu Strains that didn't make the final 4, exactly how many is a guess, as well as what specific flu virus somebody haves, as most people don't get tested or treated,
but Phuket, it's better than nothing, just stop telling me the eff to get it, especially some fake Doctor like Jill Biden or Faux-i (think he could take a blood pressure? he certainly can't throw a baseball)
Frank
Cfred -
Interesting study for the 1990's -
The conclusion of the study of the flu vaccine was that significantly more work hours were lost getting the flu vaccine than work hours lost to actually catching the flu. Worth considering an analysis of marginal cost v marginal benefit.
Did the study include lost hours due to death? And how did they estimate the number of vaccinated who would have gotten the flu otherwise and how many hours they'd have lost had they gotten the flu?
Also... measuring work hours lost for avoiding a potentially serious illness reduces people's value to just their capacity to perform work.
"Did the study include lost hours due to death? "
Shawn, that is just a flip. silly comment.
Passing too the serious, flu has a much stronger correlation with almost all co-morbidities than COVID-19 (except for chronic kidney disease). For example, if you have asthma, flu is very dangerous while COVID-19 has relatively low correlation with serious outcomes from the infection.
"covid vaccines were advertised as being 90%+ effective at their introduction."
That is likely true. However the effectiveness the effectiveness did wane considerably with time and with the evolution of the SARS-C0V-2 virus.
Don - I agree
That being said, I am uncomfortable with the studies showing vaccines reduction in severity and death rates. Seems to me to have issues with the data bases and or the size of the unvaxed vs vaxed population.
See my note in prior post on this thread-
Note that the 65+ age group's death rate was running around 35-40 average deaths per week per 100k during the height of the nov 2021-jan 2022 omicron wave while the average deaths per week in the 65+age group was running around 50 per week duing the nov 2020-jan 2021 delta wave. If the vax worked as claimed, then the total per capita death rate during the omicron wave should have been in the range of 25-40% of the nov 2020-Jan 2021 delta wave ( or about and average of 10-15 per week per 100k).
Don - I am pointing this question to you since you are the only other commentator who has demonstrated any math or relationship skills.
Joe,
I cannot make any quantitative comments regarding the impact of vaccines or other public health measures beyond the Omicron variant circulating later than mid-March this year. I have not run those numbers across the 100 countries that were analyzed in my previously peer-reviewed publications.
I will say that in March both the hospitalization rates and the morality rates were generally (though with a few major exceptions) in the range of 0.1% to 0.2% (mortality). Thus correlation studies were inherently of reduced statistical significance.
John F. Carr : “… who claimed religious reasons for refusing …”
Which will surely happen more & more for all vaccines. When one of the two major parties in the U.S. goes anti-vaxx for cheap political gain, that’s the result. Vaccination becomes just another Culture War playtoy and “religious reasons” suddenly start oozing from people’s pores. We’re still trying to put a hard number on how many needlessly died from covid because their party’s gutter politics led to vaccination rates 30% lower than the other side. Probably tens of thousands.
Meanwhile, vaccination rates for measles, rubella, etc have dropped over 10% in Florida since pre-pandemic times. Yet DeSantis’ anti-vaxx crusade continues. Sleazy politics always takes precedence, eh?
https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/florida-vaccination-rates-young-children-decline/
GRB - https://doh.wa.gov/newsroom/childhood-immunization-rates-decline-during-pandemic
A few other issues with that report
You probably noticed that the story cherrypicked a lot of smaller reporting units with traditionally low vax rates.
The Washington numbers support grb’s point as the decline in vaccination rates in Washington are *much* lower than the declines in Florida.
Time to call BS on the CBS florida study
It claims to cover all 12 months of 2021 in a story published 8.11.2021 . Gotta be curious how they got 12 months of data for 2021 in august of 2021.0
It would be perfectly fine for a year-over-year result as of any particular date, even if 2021 was not completed.
Assume August. Is there really something wrong with the story, reading it in that context? Nobody squeaked back then how silly it was to lie about full 2021 data?
Krayt 3 hours ago (edited)
"It would be perfectly fine for a year-over-year result as of any particular date, even if 2021 was not completed."
I would agree - except that is not what they doing. That being said, there are lots of other indications of use of misleading data, especially the cherrypicking of subsets of data.
“Gotta be curious how they got 12 months of data for 2021 in august of 2021.”
Most states use a fiscal year rather than a calendar year and data would be recorded/reported as of the fiscal year. If FY 2021 ended on June 30th, the data could be available in August.
the states that use fiscal years instead of calendar years are for financial reporting, generally not for other data.
My main point on the CBS/florida report, has a lot of misleading data that should be apparent, , lots of cherrypicked stats , using cherrypick single county data, without a single reference to total state data , using "implying 12 month 2021" data in a report dated in august 2021.
I am simply not a fan of skewed data, especially partisan attacks on either side.
An example of the extreme levels of partisanship in various discussions is the effectiveness of the mitigation protocols. As of Nov 2021 the cumulative deaths rates for the 65+ age group was remarkably similar in all states. (1130-1180 deaths per 100k). The exceptions were Ha, WA, OR, VT, NH, Maine with were considerably lower ( approx 700 per 100k as I recall) . NY and NJ were the two states that were on the high side ( approx 1300 as I recall).
I ran the same calculations on about 5-6 large cities and the the cumulative death rates all fell in that narrow range. Note that I did not run the calculations in many rural counties since the ability to obtain accurate data and population size ( small denominators) can easily skew the analysis.
Joe_dallas : “Time to call BS….”
Uh huh. The Right’s new anti-vaxx party line may be Culture War posturing for some. Hell, maybe that’s all it is for you. But there are repercussions to remaking an entire political party into anti-vaccine. One example was lower covid vaccination rates for Republicans by 20% to 30% . People uselessly died for that reason. I see above you suggest they may have died in lower numbers than supposed. I’m sure you find that comforting while you battle on this new ideological front.
And now you claim – what? – that the rates for non-covid vaccines are unaffected by all the Right’s fevered anti-vaxx agitprop? I doubt even you believe that. No doubt it’s like those numbers for the pointless dead: You just aim to cast doubt on any given statistic and suggest the real effect is a wee bit lower.
Meanwhile, back in Florida: The state’s Surgeon General is a very vocal anti-vaxx freak. That was the only “qualification” DeSantis was interested in when appointing him. Last year, a Florida state senator said he wanted to review school vaccine requirements for illnesses such as mumps and measles. Republican Sen. Manny Diaz (head of Florida’s Health Policy Committee) said he was “firmly against all vaccine mandates.” Before the Right reinvented itself as anti-vaxxers, that sort of thing was unthinkable. Now it’s happening across the country. Here’s another survey for you to yip & nip at, Joe (in your guise as Mighty Culture War chiwawa) :
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3777996-survey-finds-growing-opposition-to-school-vaccine-mandates-for-measles/
Note: This kind of bullshit isn’t cost-free.
Issue surveys are garbage, without exception.
So far your evidence is a state report limited to welfare parents and a survey. Do better.
The Right’s anti-vaxx propaganda has an effect, Bob. One example was (and is) the difference in vaccination rates by political party. Remember when anti-vaxx wack-jobs were a handful of freaks evenly divided between fringe Right & Left? No more. The below link is a recent survey with this money quote:
“The most recent data shows that 32% of Republicans do not plan on getting vaccinated, the highest level of any major demographic group. Older Americans, Democrats, more well-educated adults and higher-income earners are less likely to oppose getting vaccinated”
https://morningconsult.com/covid19-vaccine-dashboard/
So we get it, Bob: It’s great fun opening up another front of the Culture War and I’m sure this anti-vaxx thing really gets your blood pumping, entertainment-wise. But there’s a cost to substituting cheap political rhetoric for rational healthcare choices. People needlessly died because of these bullshit games. What’s your estimate of their number?
"Right’s anti-vaxx propaganda has an effect,"
How did a segment of the "Right" get this way?
Our public health authorities started out by saying "don't mask" but it turns out they were only saying that because supplies were low.
Then, they said it was ok to go to the 2020 protests because apparently viruses don't spread due to yelling and chanting in large, close quarter groups if the cause is good.
Then they reacted to some tentative reluctance to vax with name calling and mandates and firings which of course hardened and increased opposition.
Take the mote out of you eye.
" How did a segment of the “Right” get this way? "
-- poor education
-- gullibility
-- resentment of credentials, professionals, "elites"
-- substandard political "leaders"
-- disdain of science and preference for superstition
-- disaffected, antisocial nature
I have to say the three points you make seem relatively lightweight when set against the right roaring into extreme anti-vaxx territory during a global pandemic. Are you absolutely sure they were the actual causes? Because that would be pathetic.
I would say that nobody is as pathetic as you, Nige, except there is Artie.
Our public health authorities started out by saying “don’t mask” but it turns out they were only saying that because supplies were low.
They said "don't mask" because evidence that cloth masks helped was limited and N95 supplies were extremely limited and needed for health care workers. The messaging could have been better but no one is perfect, not even Fauci!
Then, they said it was ok to go to the 2020 protests because apparently viruses don’t spread due to yelling and chanting in large, close quarter groups if the cause is good.
They said virus spread outside was more limited (correctly), and they considered civil rights protests a more acceptable reason to group than going to a bar.
Then they reacted to some tentative reluctance to vax with name calling and mandates and firings which of course hardened and increased opposition.
It was months of worrying about sufficient vaccine supplies before people started worrying about anti-vaxxers.
GRB - You might actually read the story before using to support you partisan attacks.
the following paragraph destroys your claims
"But the shift seems more about opposition to mandates and less about the shots themselves. Today 85 percent of the public and 80 percent of parents said the benefits of the measles, mumps and rubella vaccines outweigh their risks, little changed from 2019, when 88 percent of the public and 83 percent of parents felt that way."
Barone's Law: "All process arguments are insincere (including this one)."
The number of people out there saying, "I love vaccines and I get them for myself and my kids every chance I get… but I am nevertheless outraged that schools mandate them" wouldn't fill a phone booth if phone booths still existed. We know that, because the Libertarian Party gets 1% of the vote, not 30% of the vote.
Joe_dallas (quoting) : “But the shift seems more about opposition to mandates and less about the shots themselves”
Uh huh. That’s as much transparent nonsense as believing people suddenly woke-up and discovered (amazed!) they had religious “cause” for opposing vaccines. Who the hell believes that ?!? The Right’s political hacks made vaccines a Culture War issue and all the sheep dutifully followed with their process “issues”, their religious “issues”, and gobs of tortured statistics.
(Those sheep includes you btw. A loyal Culture Warrior like yourself deserves a call-out for all his hard work in the anti-vaxx crusade)
Your projection is very strong.
It was of course the Left that made wearing face diapers and getting jabbed into a front of the Culture War.
"chiwawa"
Your spelling is as sound as your logic
Hilarious!!!! I thought you couldn't get more pathetic!
Don, we have a social norm around here about not calling out typos. Surely you have observed it.
Don't be a dick.
I don’t always agree with Nico, but when it comes to being a dick you have him beat by a mile. And a half.
That is not a typo S_0. It is ignorance. Don’t be a dick.
By the way how did you get to be the custodian of social norms?
Haha, I like how we went from "well vaccination rates dropped in Washington too!" to "the Florida report must be a lie!"
There's plenty of data out there that demonstrates pretty clearly that the choice by Republican leaders to use vaccination as their latest attempt at culture warring has resulted in lower vaccination rates and cost a lot of lives. At the start of the year there was something like a 30 point spread in the vaccination rate between Republicans and Democrats:
https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/poll-finding/kff-covid-19-vaccine-monitor-january-2022/
What you’ll find is they fight every survey, statistic or record. What’s important to them isn’t the needless cost of life, but to contest any attempt to quantify it. As long as there’s no numbers to document the cost, their anti-vaxx agitprop remains good entertaining fun….
JB - you cited an opinion poll, not one that is based on actual facts.
Your point about difference in vaccination rates would be valid if the effectivenss of the vaccines was better. Currently the effectiveness of the vax drops significantly after 6 months, and booster's effectiveness drops significantly after 2-3 months.
there lots of studies showing that the severity covid illness and deaths are reduced significantly (for short periods ) if the person is vaxed. However, as noted in the Minnesota data base, they were using an invalid denominator via the understatement of the unvaxed population. The result is that the per capita death rate and hospitalization were substantially lower and much closer to the per capita vax rates. When I ran the numbers for MA, FL, NJ, and TX, it appeared that those 4 states have similar data base errors. Those probable errors came to light since the total per capita death rates for the over 65 were running too high considering that the 65+ age group was 85-90% vaxed.
Note that the 65+ death rate was running around 70-80% during the height of the nov 2021-jan 2022 omicron wave vs the nov 2020-jan 2021 delta wave. If the vax worked as claimed, then the total per capita death rate during the omicron wave should have in in the range of 25-40% of the nov 2020-Jan 2021 delta wave. Instead it was running 2-3x of what it should have been running if the vax worked.
Yes, I cited an opinion poll. It would be quite hard to get actual vaccination rates by party affiliation through any method other than self-reporting. But there's tons of data on this topic and it's fairly unambiguous regardless of whether you look at vaccination rates vs. political affiliation at aggregate county levels or through surveys like this or whatever other method.
Even if you assume the vaccines are only effective at reducing severe illness/death for a few months, at best you're arguing that Republican rhetoric on this topic has only cost tens of thousands of lives versus hundreds of thousands of lives. It's still horrible either way.
JB - math is obviously not your forte
What is your mathematical issue? Make an argument,, dint just be supercilious.
Sacastro - take a guess at the math issues in JB's comment or are as mathematically changed as JB
At this point not showing your work and taking refuge in condescension is looking pretty suspect that your objection did not have any actual objection to it.
Either claim outright that dallas is wrong about jb's post or admit that he's right about you.
I think both are true. I don't see any math issues other than that jb's pulling the "tens of thousands... versus hundreds of thousands" bit out of his ass. But you didn't have enough courage of your convictions to be anything other than pathetic.
"Yes, I cited an opinion poll. It would be quite hard to get actual vaccination rates by party affiliation through any method other than self-reporting. "
That is exactly why such polls are only useful for ideologues to make partisan points.
Serious studies based on detail hospital data across a wide swath of a country's population are very hard to come by except in places such as Israel, where studies have included as many as half of the populations and are based on individual medical records
By now we’ve seen countless times over that Don Nico is only interested in avoiding conclusions, not finding them – at least in situations where Right-wing culpability exists.
In those cases (per Don), truth has a postmodern elusiveness and is never within our grasp. When Right-wing culpability is at stake we mustn't even discuss the issue (per Don), but should pass it over in solemn silence.
GRB,
Don’t be a dick. You have no substantive comment so you mouth off in your usual ad hominem fashion.
And what is your babbling about right wing culpability? take your ideological doubletalk and shove it.
Joe_dallas : "However, as noted in the Minnesota... (gibberish)"
Quote from 28 October 2022:
"If anyone still wonders whether COVID-19 vaccines are effective at preventing serious illness, look no further than UC Davis Medical Center – and probably most hospitals in the country. Nearly 80% of the COVID-positive patients sick enough to require hospitalization in recent days are unvaccinated. The other roughly 20% of people admitted to the hospital with COVID have breakthrough infections."
https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/some-80-of-patients-hospitalized-with-covid-are-unvaccinated/2022/10
Let's stop a sec and consider a person like Joe_dallas. What can it be like to dedicate oneself to convincing people to make irrational heathcare decisions - and for no other reason than Culture War bullshit?
The article you link to is exactly the sort of trash that causes people to distrust the COVID hysterics.
"If anyone still wonders whether COVID-19 vaccines are effective at preventing serious illness, look no further than UC Davis Medical Center – and probably most hospitals in the country."
"UC Davis Medical Center on Thursday had only 27 patients hospitalized with [not because of] COVID-19... Of the 27 patients still admitted, 21 (78%) were unvaccinated. The remaining six patients (22%) with breakthrough infections were at least partially vaccinated."
So, a sample size of 27, and no indication as to whether the lack of vaccination is due to Jab reluctance but... no problem! UCD is "probably" a near perfect proof of what's happening in the entire country. We also get, "If you have an unvaccinated friend, family or coworker that you spend a significant time with, that person is 20 times more likely to give you COVID, even if you are vaccinated.” ...with no indication where that comes from, maybe an equally reliable and scientific projection from a pathetic sample.
And, oh, yes: "“The best we can do is remind everyone that vaccines are safe, vaccines are effective, and vaccines can stop this.” This immediately after, “COVID is never going to go away; we know that." which makes the "this" that is going to be "stopped" (despite the breakthrough cases of vaccine failure) somewhat unclear.
...Since dallas questioned your ability to do math I'll give you a simple opportunity to prove him wrong: Accepting the info in the article as true, how likely is it that someone vaccinated (and encountering the vaccinated and unvaccinated at the average rate) got his COVID from someone unvaccinated?
It appears the conservative-Republican campaign has accelerated (COVID-generated replacement) of a number of clingers, perhaps as many as 100,000.
I wish preventable disease would not have killed so many people, but if people are to die it seems fitting that the virus-flouting, antisocial misfits were the ones to be replaced.
That "appears" from where?
Required answer: "...as many as 100,000
Show your work.
"young children who rely on county health departments to provide shots"
Many republicans.
""While these measures may have reduced the spread of the virus they may have also contributed to parents postponing routine childhood vaccination," she wrote."
"She also acknowledged that public-health measures and reprioritization of county health departments toward COVID-19 activities "likely contributed to the significant decrease in vaccinations coverage this year."
Hm. Seems like she disagrees with you on the cause.
concur - the story seems like a hatchet job.
GRB - keep repeating left wing talking points
Vaccination rates for those vaccines dropped nationwide during the pandemic along with drops in other necessary medical services. decreases in the Florida child vaccination rates were reasonably consistent with drop in rates in almost every state.
Joe_dallas : “… left wing talking points …”
Yep. That’s where we are now. Simple common sense about vaccines is now “left wing talking points”. It’s a sad thing when half of the country is disappearing down the anti-vaxx rabbit hole, particularly since this form of nonsense used to be thinly spread across the ideological spectrum. But at least I’m on the right side. I’m not fervently campaigning against rational healthcare decisions. Unlike DeSantis, I’m not afraid to say I got a vaccine booster shot (in terror of alienating his fringe ignorant supporters).
But then I don’t belong to the Kyrie Irving-style party.
GRB - your responses show a continued hostility to rational assessment based on complete understanding of the facts. along with a hostility to Desantis.
Your should be aware at this point in time that the per capita death rates (especially for the 65+ age group) were slightly lower than the national average. Though still within the narrow range that all the states fell in with the exception of the 5 that did very well and the 2 that did much worse
I have enjoyed watching DeSantis flip-flop, for several reasons.
Joe_dallas : “Your should be aware at this point in time that the per capita death rates (especially for the 65+ age group) were slightly lower than the national average. Though still within the narrow range that all the states fell in with the exception of the 5 that did very well and the 2 that did much worse”
Anyone remember the commercial with the tag-line, "this is your brain on drugs"....?
Well, folks, this is your brain on anti-vaxx…….
What “simple common sense about vaccines” explains is why you still can’t get the approved version of the “vaccine” (new definition of vaccine) that doesn’t come with an exemption for the drug company for any and all liability for defects.
Now… do you have any?
Generally healthcare reasonable accomodations are “get the flu shot or wear a mask during “flu season”.
Pre-covid, no one required flu shots. Period. And no one required masks for the flu. If you're old enough to remember the pre-covid years, you will remember being amused by photos of people wearing masks on the streets in Japan. That practice had noting to do with preventing disease - it was simply a cultural thing. As it became for covid here.
An unfortunate cultural development, objectively.
Did you miss the fact that this case arose in 2019?
I remember not just Japan in Asia wearing masks. Mostly for pollution, IIRC, with a few hypochondriacs of disease thrown in (and maybe some fragile types, of course.)
Here, from the start, it was to help flatten the curve so we didn’t overwhelm hospitals, causing needless deaths. They weren’t super effective (I seem to recall reducing transmission by 40% in early estimates, primarily from stopping expectoration of globules of fomites from coughs and sneezes onto supermarket products, and stopping the wearer from touching their own noses or mouths.) Nothing about floating viruses, which the opposition picked up and ran with politically, ignoring those real reasons, textbook sophistry.
I noted some months later a curious shift that it was no longer about not overwhelming hospitals, but about protecting you, yes you right there, dear reader, from getting it directly.
I called out that change, as sophistry from the other side. Pressing people into adhering to ever more invasive commands, nickle-diming them larger, is an old psychological trick taught in Psych 101.
So both sides are lousy, political hacks.
But we knew that already.
The change in mask guidance was pretty consistent with the overall points they were making the whole time, but requires some ability to engage in nuance which (a) public health institutions seem not super interested in trusting the public with, but maybe because (b) most people seem to have very little capacity to deal with.
At the start of the pandemic, high quality masks where in short supply, so the CDC was recommending cloth masks even though they knew they weren't very good. Like you say, they would trap a lot of your spit globules, so would keep some virus in, but didn't do much in the way of keeping it out. Thus in the early days you were masking primarily to protect other people.
As the pandemic wore on and mask supply came online, high quality (N-95 and KN-95) masks became readily available. These masks were much better at preventing the spread in both directions and meant that individuals who were particularly worried about the spread of Covid or other diseases now had an option to protect themselves. This guidance largely came into play as mask mandates were dropped so that people could choose to continue masking if they were at high risk for Covid for some reason.
So, what are you wearing?
Asia tends to not practice what is called "respiratory etiquette" - the fine art of not coughing or sneezing directly on other people or things. Wearing a mask covers for this basic failure of hygiene, which often leads to conflation with the effectiveness of masks in actually preventing disease spread.
Once your remove that factor, studies are pretty consistent: cloth and simple paper masks have no statistically significant effect on disease spread. This was known to be true twenty years ago with SARS, with other coronaviruses, and continues to be true with COVID.
People running around with cloth or simple paper masks were never protecting anyone. Those that claimed that those masks were effective were either lying, or ignorant.
If you wanted a mask that DID work, you needed an air-tight mask with N-95 or equivalent filters, and you needed to change it regularly (most work for 4-8 hours).
The most effective method to reduce spread was, and still is, washing your hands. The second best method is, of all things, to wear goggles - because it keeps you from touching your eyes when you don't do #1. Cloth and simple paper masks don't even rate.
Hospitals did.
It's like no one is paying attention to where this person worked.
Where he worked was fine with his exemption before 2019.
False.
e.g.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/03/nyregion/new-york-city-to-mandate-flu-shots-for-preschoolers.html
(Check the year.)
My boyfriend works for a company that required flu shots before the pandemic. It became more widespread after, but it's false to say no one, period, required it before.
That seems a weak assertion. Hospitals, for example? Employers? Schools? Retirement homes?
Should there not also be an inquiry into fact, as to whether the belief was sincere? Nobody was allowed to be a conscientious objector and avoid the draft without an examination of whether they were making it up. Every major religion endorses vaccines. Even some of the small sects you'd expect to object are at least OK with them. Shouldn't step one be to find out whether the employee is telling the truth?
People seem to have the sincere religious belief that they can get out of doing stuff they don't want to do by claiming that it's against their sincere religious belief.
Right, this is the thing I don’t understand. I don’t have to agree with the reason, but if it’s a sincerely held religious belief, I need you to articulate exactly what in your religion makes it objectionable. Otherwise it is as you say, just claiming it because you don’t want to do it. Especially if you’ve previously had childhood illness immunizations.
I think it’s wrong for people to try and claim a religious exemption when you simply disagree about the efficacy or possible risk to yourself. Of course, that’s also why I’m against a general flu or COVID vaccination mandate, even as I happily get vaxxed myself. There is an efficacy case that can be made about flu/COVID that does not apply to childhood immunizations, which are one of the greatest achievements of modern medical science, virtually eradicating diseases that took a terrible toll. (No, childhood immunizations don’t cause autism.)
Good point on the efficiency issue. There is a demand justifying vaccine mandates based on the false / misunderstood believe that the flu and covid vaccines are highly effective, which time has shown to be effective only for a short period to time.
On a side note, since your brought up autism, there is a high correlation between rates of autism and the age of the parent at birth of the child. Old the parent , the higher the autism rates (no info as to whether this correlated with the mom or the dad or both). I havent seen data of rates of autism based on age of parent from the early 1900’s . I suspect that autism rates based on age of parents have not changed/increased substantially. Unfortunately, data for that comparison is not readily available
How do you know if they're telling the truth? Let's say they're a well-known, mainline faith like Catholic. We all know what the Catholic church teaches about most things, right? Except, Catholicism isn't so neatly defined with quite a few sects that do their own thing (like say mass in latin.) How do you know whether the individual's beliefs are different from the majority of folks in their faith?
What I observed during COVID and here suggests that the best way is to see if the person requested exemptions in the past to this or other vaccines. A lot of people attempting to avoid COVID vaccines had a history of getting many others, which undercut their religious claim. But the hospital janitor in the OP has a history of getting an accommodation for the influenza vaccine by that same employer. His case seems far stronger here.
Special privilege for religious claims with respect to public health issues -- vaccinations, pharmacists, reproductive issues, maybe even circumcision -- seems likely to falter as America continues to become less religious.
The harder advocates for special privilege push their position now, the swifter and more severe the mainstream backlash is likely to be. I do not expect any advocates to change course in this regard; I am content to let time sift this in modern America.
What religious beliefs, exactly? I know there's the crowd who don't allow blood transfusions, they probably don't allow vaccines either - but what else? What's the religious basis, and can you show it applied to all other vaccines as well? 'I'm a Jedi and it might interfere with my midchlorians?'
"What religious beliefs, exactly?"
"It's a sin to encourage the use of cells from aborted fetuses" is popular.
Given that people can change their minds there's no good test for sincerity.
No, you don't need a permission slip from any organized religion.
I can see a "win the battle, lose the war" scenario. In one future, religious exemptions are abolished in situations where judges or lawmakers think they are being abused. We see that trend in vaccination requirements. In another, the legal system stops presuming sincerity. If Americans start to believe that certain types of religious beliefs are just made up to get out of obligations proving sincerity may become a real burden.
Like all the people who claimed their iguanas or whatever were service animals. It worked for a while, even if it was a bluff. Then the government clarified ADA regulations to say that only miniature horses and dogs can legally be considered service animals. Businesses and boards of health are now better informed and your pet won't be joining you for dinner any more, whether you call it an emotional support peacock or a service peacock.
You should be nicer if you wish to ask others to perform basic research for you.
No links for you.
The reports that coronavirus infections afflicted Republican communities -- and killed Republicans -- disproportionately (after vaccinations became available, at least) are relatively easy to find. (National Bureau of Economic Research, National Library of Medicine, Yale, Scientific American, Harvard, Washington Post, NBC). Anyone who has seen them should should consider refraining from getting information exclusively from the clingerverse.
'No, you don’t need a permission slip from any organized religion.'
Then it's meaningless and a flag of convenience.
Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland 3 hours ago
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Gandydancer 13 hours ago
Show your work.
You should be nicer if you wish to ask others to perform basic research for you.
No links for you.
The reports that coronavirus infections afflicted Republican communities — and killed Republicans — disproportionately (after vaccinations became available, at least) are relatively easy to find. (National Bureau of Economic Research, National Library of Medicine, Yale, Scientific American, Harvard, Washington Post, NBC). Anyone who has seen them should should consider refraining from getting information exclusively from the clingerverse.
Another demonstration of lack of math skills and inablility to spot the deception in those articles.
None of those "stories" discussed per capita death rates by " age group". Per capita death rates by age groups is remarkably similar across republican counties and democrat counties.
Though its not surprising that the stories are intentionally deception, nor is it not surprising that you would not even recognize the deception.