The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
The Empire Strikes Back, at Elon
Episode 431 of the Cyberlaw Podcast
The Cyberlaw Podcast leads with the growing legal cost of Elon Musk's anti-authoritarian takeover of Twitter. Turns out that authority figures have a mean streak, and a lot of weapons, many grounded in law, as Twitter is starting to learn. Brian Fleming explores one of them -- the apparently unkillable notion that the Committee on Foreign Investment in the U.S. (CFIUS) should review Musk's Twitter deal because of a relatively small share that went to investors with Chinese and Persian Gulf ties. CFIUS may in fact be seeking information on what Twitter data those investors will have access to, but I am skeptical that CFIUS will be moved to act on what it learns. More dangerous for Twitter and Musk, says Charles-Albert Helleputte, is the possibility that the company will lose its one-stop-shop privacy regulator for failure to meet the elaborate compliance machinery set up by European privacy bureaucrats. At a quick calculation, that could expose Twitter to fines up to 120% of annual turnover. That would smart. Finally, I reprise my take on all the people leaving Twitter for Mastodon as a protest against Musk allowing the Babylon Bee and President Trump back on the platform. If the protestors really think Mastodon's system is better, there's no reason Twitter can't adopt it, or at least the version that Francis Fukuyama and Roberta Katz have proposed.
If you are looking for the far edge of the Establishment's Overton Window on China policy, you cannot do better than the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission, a consistently China-skeptical but mainstream body. Brian reprises the Commission's latest report. Its headline is about Chinese hacking, but the report does not offer much hope of a solution to that problem, other than more decoupling.
Chalk up one more victory for Trump-Biden continuity, and one more loss for the State Department. Michael Ellis reminds us that the Trump administration took much of Cyber Command's cyber offense decisionmaking out of the National Security Council and put it back in the Pentagon. This made it much harder for the State Department to stall cyber offense operations. When it turned out that this made Cyber Command more effective and no more irresponsible, the Biden Administration followed its predecessor's lead, preparing a memo that will largely ratify Trump's order, with a few tweaks.
I unpack Google's expensive (nearly $400 million) settlement with 40 States over location history. Google's promise to its users that it would stop storing location history if the feature was turned off was poorly and misleadingly drafted, but I doubt there is anyone who actually wanted to keep Google from using location for most of the apps where it remained operative, so the settlement is a good deal for the states, and a reminder of how unpopular Silicon Valley has become in red and blue states alike.
Michael tells the doubly embarrassing story of an Iranian hack of the U.S. Merit Systems Protection Board. It is embarrassing enough for the board to be hacked using a log4j exploit that should have been patched long ago. But it is worse that an Iranian government hacker got access to a U.S. government network – and decided that its access is best used for mining cryptocurrency.
Brian tells us that the U.S. goal of reshoring chip production is making progress, with Apple planning to use TSMC chips from a new fab in Arizona.
In a few updates and quick hits:
- I remind listeners that a lot of tech companies are laying employees off, but that overall Silicon Valley employment is still way up over the past couple of years.
- I update the mess at cryptocurrency exchange FTX, a mess which just keeps getting worse.
- Charles updates us on the next U.S.-E.U. adequacy negotiations, and the prospects for Schrems 3 (and 4, and 5) litigation.
- And I sound a note of both admiration and caution about Australia's plan to "unleash the hounds" – in the form of its own Cyber Command equivalent – on ransomware gangs. As U.S. experience reveals, it makes for a great speech, but actual impact can be hard to achieve.
Download the 431st Episode (mp3)
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I'm not exactly 100% familiar with the technical details, but "Cyber Command" sounds cool and science-fictiony.
It has a certain 1950's serial feel to it, like The Adventures of Captain Brock Steel and the Protectors at Cyber Command.
More distopian....
I was thinking "Dr Who?"
Can Musk leverage the CFIUS to unwind the deal?
The obvious move for Musk was, is, and will be to shut down all Twitter operations in the EU.
If the EU then decides to build their own Great Firewall to keep Twitter out, more power to 'em.
Seeing how he thinks, if he does I suspect he'll make a big deal about it freely raining down from space via Starlink.
It would be a sort of ultimate FU.
It would be far more complicated than you think -- remember the "pirate radio" ship in the 1980s -- in International waters but broadcasting into the USA?
Memory is that Panama waived sovereignty to the US (the ship was Panamanian flagged, I *think*) and then the US FCC seized the equipment from a ship that still was in International waters.
Memory is that the circa-70s UN treaties would declare his satellites to be US territory so the EU couldn't shoot them down (without US permission) but it isn't difficult to block the relatively weak signal from a satellite.
FWIW Allan Weiner was one of the people behind that station. Today he owns and operates WBCQ, a shortwave station out of Maine that largely specializes in leasing airtime to “”pirate” broadcasters. They have a lot of good quality interesting programs.
It would be impossible to actually shoot down enough Starlink satellites to make a serious dent. There are already thousands in orbit, and the signal isn’t as weak as you think.
It drives the astronomy community nuts because they are always crossing overhead.
In a few years every serious astronomer will be using orbital telescopes anyway. It's the future of astronomy.
Well the issue is that if anything ever happened to GPS (like China), we'd have to go back to celestial navigation. Somehow the SR71 used it, as did slower planes of that vintage.
In fact, I think that the early ICBMs used celestial navigation.
Put a lot of clutter up there, and ....
Elon Musk is an anti-authoritarian? That's inane. He's only anti-authoritarian when the authoritarian is one he doesn't like. His whole approach to managing Twitter is authoritarian, and pretty stupidly authoritarian at that, firing half the staff only to realize too late that some of those people were essential, then proceeding to alienate half of the remainder with that dumb email asking engineers to submit a list of their achievements with screen shots (why screen shots rather than links to commits or code reviews?).
Why screen shots rather than links? Because he doesn't have to click images to see what they say, and his time is easy more valuable than that of the employees he's telling to make screen shots.
The screen shots should probably link to whatever backs them up, but the reason for screen shots is pretty simple.
"his time is easy more valuable than that of the employees he’s telling to make screen shots."
Citation needed. The employees are at least creating a product that has value, even if it (being Twitter) is ultimately a malignant one. What the hell has Elon ever created? What has he ever done besides be a pump-and-dump scam artist and an internet cringelord? His time is "valuable" because he owns stuff - that's it.
FYI: "Authoritarian" is when you're issuing orders to people who aren't on your payroll. Issuing orders to people who you're paying is just "being an employer".
Yes, it can seem redundant because it's inherently authoritarian, but some are more authoritarian than others.
Managers can be authoritarian as well. Paying someone is not license to just do what you want with them.
Shades of marital rape.
But it absolutely IS a license to tell them what to do on work related issues.
It makes it legal, it does not make it moral or not authoritarian.
Toxic and awful managers are a thing, and they are not above judgement just because they can't go to jail.
How the hell does having "license" to do something magically make it not authoritarian? Authoritarians generally work within the rules - in fact, that's kinda their thing. Do you think that Hitler, Stalin, etc. weren't given "license" to act as they did by the legal rules in place at the time?
The authoritarians we worry about are the ones that make the rules, not the ones that work within the pre-existing rules.
Managers make plenty of rules, Brett. That's part of what being in authority means!
"The authoritarians we worry about are the ones that make the rules"
What exactly is it that you think Elon is doing if not making rules?? What do you suppose CEOs do with their time?
There's something I don't understand about Right-types turning Musk's latest bullshit into another right-wing victimhood meme:
What if your boss acted like that? What if your employer flailed around in such a stupid bungling manner? What if your new boss acted so obnoxious just as performance art?
Musk has offered the employees of Twitter nothing positive - and by that I mean the employees left after his clownish mass firings. Instead, he rained threats and abuse on their heads just because he likes his look in the mirror doing so. We've all had good bosses; we've all had toxic bosses. Musk looks like an example of the latter, raised exponentially in awfulness.
I'm of two minds here -- from what I have seen of Twitter employees, they are a bunch of spoilt brats demanding perks.
A generation ago, tech workers were so dedicated (and working such insanely long hours) that the perks were necessary. If you didn't feed them, they wouldn't eat. If you didn't provide them a social life, they wouldn't have one -- think MIT students here.
But that was then -- today there is a cadre of spoilt brats who consider themselves entitled to all this stuff -- which they've never earned. Their actual workday has gone from 12 hours to maybe 2 hours -- the rest is not creating value for the company.
And this is true of all of big tech -- not just Twitter.
And Big Tech is going to have to reign this in.
Imagine, feeling entitled to not be treated like shit, the nerve of them.
I'd love them to have to hold some of the jobs I've had...
Why? Were you treated like shit? If so, why would you want other people to be treated like shit?
I don’t think anyone today has any concept of how it used to be. Back in the mid 90’s I was with a startup. I spent 4 years working 7 days a week, 16 hours a day, oftentimes even working holidays. I still remember always getting up on New Year’s Day to go in to do server maintenance. The most they ever did for us was the occasional pizza.
That sucks.
Lets work on making it not suck now.
Every large organization probably needs occasional layoffs to be well managed and efficient, when does the federal government get its turn? I think they should aim for 75-80%.
Yes, well all know you don't like the post-Civil War size of government.
Luckily for all of us (including you), your arguments are more ideology than substance, and you are never going to get your way.
Yes, we are all very lucky that federal bureaucrats add so much value to our lives, bringing us $21 trillion in debt, spending $300 on a bolt and studying underwater basket weaving in Pakistan. And that the federal bureaucracy never has to face any layoffs or restructuring (even though that is necessary for any large organization to be well managed and efficient).
Sorry, $30 trillion.
https://nypost.com/2022/07/02/watchdog-calls-out-the-governments-most-ridiculous-spending/
Federal spending is careening out of control – as Washington bureaucrats fritter our tax dollars away on slots-playing pigeons and zombified cats.
Four months after the US national debt shot past the $30 trillion mark for the first time in history, a new report from Illinois-based nonprofit American Transparency is detailing some of the foolish, fraudulent, and frivolous federal projects that have spent us into an economic ditch.
“The federal government isn’t just wasting your money. They are literally ripping you off,” said Adam Andrzejewski, the group’s founder. “They are milking taxpayers like dairy cows.”
Citing 'number big' is facile nonsense.
Our Debt/GDP ratio is nowhere near Japan's.
Our spending per capita is nowhere near Europe's.
We're doing fine. Not perfect, but fine. To a fringer like you, we've never been fine since the Civil War. But in reality, our problems do not come from our spending.
Yes, you can declare *the entire world is out of control* but that makes you either an idealogue or a propagandist.
We'll not doing fine, we're celebrating that we're falling past the 20th floor, and somebody else just passed the 15th.
Yes, it is typical through all of human history that governments steal from their subjects as much as they can, this doesn't automatically mean that civilization grinds to a halt nor is it the only problem in the world. But it's a big one.
Because Japan did so well in the '90s.
In the 1820s they dug the Erie Canal, by hand. An engineering marvel, it was completed it in a shockingly fast time at a cost of $171 million in inflation-adjusted 2021 dollars.
Nobody does things like that any more. Today we get billions in cost overruns, rampant corruption and fraud everywhere.
Yeah, life is less cheap for workers now than it was in 1820.
And, of course, that canal required a number of nontrivial improvements.
Ignoring human rights and dignity in favor of efficiency is shitty.
Hard work is not an affront to human rights and dignity. It is good for you, necessary even.
I'm not saying that everything that we do today is a model of efficiency, but the speed you cite in 1820 came from just letting workers die or get maimed and not caring - they were immigrants after all!
Plus the actual constructions were much more modest than the modern era.
There is plenty of hard work and dignity around nowadays.
Crunch in software development is neither.
Also true at Biglaw.
"Plus the actual constructions were much more modest than the modern era."
Like the Hoover dam, completed in five years, or Empire State building, in a year and 45 days. Modest.
I've seen buildings going up around here that took a couple years to go up, and once would have been completed in months. Sitting there missing a bunch of windows, I assume due to supply chain problems.
One of the (former) reasons for the slow pace is that we had an artificially low interest rate, so if doubling the time to build a structure saved you 5% on the cost, it was a sensible choice. Maybe the pace will pick up now that inflation is back.
I think the 96 men (official count, others are higher) who died building the Hoover dam might disagree with you.
America's value of a single life has gone up considerably since our big construction projects of the first half of the 1900s. And that's even with construction still being one of the more dangerous jobs in America.
Note that I don't disagree: generally materialism or putting efficiency and profits above human life and dignity (of others) is wrong. That has happened and still happens.
But I disagree that hard work is a threat to human life or rights or dignity.
When Currentitsguy said he worked long hours (by choice) probably in a comfortable office chair, that is not something we need to use force to "work on making it not suck now" i.e. stopping it.
Hard work is awesome. Poor pay and conditions are not.
May I suggest you look into the number of construction workers who are dying of opioid overdoses?
You'd be surprised -- the folks who work in construction have always been self destructive...
You mean the workers weren't immortal? They had 21,000 people on the job, you know. How many people out of 21,000 would you normally expect to die in a five year period?
Shouldn't you have checked how many of them actually died because of working conditions before posting that?
Mostly I'd expect you to know that I have an incredibly low opinion of you, and that someone that thinks a 2015 SCOTUS decision caused a 2003 law isn't someone I'm going to bother giving citations to.
There's no evidence for the existence of either.
Eh.... this isn't why tech companies did this. Bosses who pay employees for 40 hour weeks and work them 60+ hours a week don't care if they eat or sleep.
Tech companies did this for three main reasons:
1) There was high competition for talent and this was great marketing
2) Employees that leave the office to accomplish necessary chores aren't able to keep working. Providing those services in-house keeps them at their keyboards longer.
3) Tech Bro CEOs saw themselves as somehow different than other industries and this was an ego trip for them. (IMHO)
The industry matured. Their management practices will also need to mature. (and that rules out Musk.)
Fun fact: After the whole “Be Hardcore or Be Gone” nonsense, he started stripping the various perks that made living and working in the modern equivalent of the old “company towns” bearable.
Elmo’s “anti-authoritarian takeover of Twitter”? What in de fuq are you talking about?
Today's left: "Liberty is authoritarian!"
Nineteen Eighty Four was a warning, not an instruction manual.
Today's right - 'man, we hate those wealthy elites! Here's an apartheid emerald heir claiming to be anti-authoritarian, he'll help!'
I love the conservative dodge via semantics.
'Naw, that's not authoritarian, it's liberty! /eom.'
Reminds me of when I read Trotsky about what was revolutionary or not.
'Turns out that authority figures have a mean streak,'
Ah yes, data, financial and employment laws. Bloody hell, if they were oppressing the gays we'd be getting lectures about respecting other countries' culture and traditions.
Today in the comments: liberals explain how buying a company and telling your employees what to do is authoritarian. Sigh. Go pay your damn student loans.
It was Stewart Baker who called it 'anti-authoritarian,' which is laughable.
The standard form of management is authoritarian. One person or group at the top telling everyone what to do within a rigid hierarchical system. It's not a democracy. This shouldn't be news to anyone.
Even if you're stupid enough to believe Elon is some sort of visionary business genius, to claim that he is somehow "anti-authoritarian" is truly incredible. Muskadin lickspittles never cease to amaze...
I don't know how stupid you'd have to be to claim that the richest man in the world, founder of multiple path breaking companies, wasn't some sort of visionary business genius.
I guess it's the same sort of stupidity that thinks a moron acting randomly stumbled and fell into the White House in 2016. People who are silly enough to believe their own trash talk.
He inherited wealth and didn't found any of his companies, but other than that, spot-on. Guess the other moron managed to play on some people's naive beliefs in the mythology of wealth.
Ah yes. Earning money as the inky true sign of smarts.
Dude followed wherever the federal subsidies went, not some vision of his own.
His behavior after buying Twitter shows he’s no genius.
Given his behavior after buying Twitter, a number of articles have come out explaining that this was also his behavior at Tesla and SpaceX. Apparently, he ramps up a sense of urgency by warning about impending bankruptcy, yacks on about going "hardcore," and then works his staff to exhaustion.
It's his company. I've worked for enough a-holes that I know I'd never work for Musk. I've got my bowl of Twitter popcorn and I'm just watching from the orchestra seats.
Do you have any evidence of this supposed "genius" (other than the tautological assertion that he's smart because he's rich and rich because he's smart)? Because if you do, that'd be big news.
I'll grant you that PayPal at least made something useful (though "path breaking" is quite a stretch), but that seems to be due mostly to the efforts of the other founders and contributors and in spite of Elon. Tesla (which Elon had no role in founding) exists as a going concern almost exclusively due to government subsidies. With that company, he has shown a great aptitude at fleecing dorks and pumping the stock price. Making cars that aren't shitty death traps? Not so much.
None of his other pump-and-dump grifts - err, "companies that he's founded" - have accomplished anything of note.
He does have one thing in common with Trump, though - the carnival barker's ability to convince a critical mass of the dumbest people alive that he has all the answers, and that they should place their trust in him. That's not nothing; it's a real skill that few people can pull off. But it's a far cry from being a visionary genius.
Why, yes, we have been over this before with Trump. Inheriting money and making it into a lot more money, instead of just frittering it away, actually is a sign of business smarts.
This has become a remarkably bad habit on the left, believing your own trash talk. "He's a weak, clumsy oaf! What evidence besides his Olympic gold medal have you got to disprove that???" That's basically your case here.
It isn't just trash talk, it is based on the truth. What's really sad is that you capitalist bootlickers actually believe your own propaganda.
Elon is the beneficiary of a political-legal system explicitly designed to funnel wealth created by workers up to owners. Every innovation made by Tesla (or any other company) was accomplished by some engineer or programmer whose name you will never know. Yet it is Elon who gets the credit, the wealth, and the power. Why? Because he owns the company! Nothing more. Certainly not because of his own skill or contributions.
He also benefits from a system that is remarkably susceptible to fraud. Until a couple of weeks ago, you'd have had us believe that Sam Bankman-Fried was also some sort of visionary genius. He did become a multi-billionaire, after all! Elon might be slightly different in degree, but certainly not in kind.
“He’s a weak, clumsy oaf! What evidence besides his Olympic gold medal have you got to disprove that???”
The difference is, with an Olympic medalist, you can actually go back and watch them compete and can verify that they really did did run faster, jump higher, etc. than everyone else. Not so with Elon. Go ahead, cite something significant that *he himself* (not one of his employees) has accomplished. I'll wait. The closer analogy would be to say that Robert Kraft is the greatest football player of all time because he has six Lombardi trophies in his office.
Oh, please. This is Marxist claptrap. If the owner isn't making any valuable contributions, then why aren't the workers the ones getting rich? Why don't they just dispense with business owners and write their code and wave their Che Guevara t-shirts over the monitor and watch the dollar bills pour out? No, handwaving about a "political, legal system" is not sufficient to explain it.
"why aren’t the workers the ones getting rich?"
Why not indeed!
"Why don’t they just dispense with business owners"
That depends on whether you're asking about Tesla workers specifically, or all workers more generally. If it's the former, it's because the state will not allow that to happen. If the workers try to seize the means of Model 3 production, Elon will go to court, which will (of course) vindicate his rights as an owner in a legal system designed to facilitate the interests of his class. If the workers don't then back down, men with guns will go in and break up their little co-op and will restore Elon as owner.
If it's the latter, that's a bit like a monarchist interlocutor asking an 18th century republican: "if you think the king is so bad, and if he doesn't deserve all the wealth and power he has, then why is he the one who's king?? And why hasn't he been replaced with something better?" Like yeah, we definitely should replace him with a better system! But it's not as simple as just wishing it into existence. People with outsized power generally aren't in a habit of just giving it up. Not without a fight. An so long as the owner class continues to command a preponderance of force, it will keep its privileges.
The workers were doing quite well, by all accounts, until the genius billionaire took over.
On the one hand we have praise for hard manual labour. On the other we have praise for guys who inherited fortunes and miraculously made more of a fortune with it, though the tendency of financial instiutions to loan loads of money to people who already have loads of money is not the same thing as business smarts.
If you've ever seen what typically happens to the fortunes of people who win the lottery, you'd understand that there's nothing particularly miraculous about turning inherited wealth into hugely more wealth. It actually requires a fair amount of work and smarts.
No, it doesn't. Take Trump. A smart guy would have managed to increase his wealth at a greater rate than a standard index fund. Trump wasn't able to do that. He lost business after business. I mean, Trump steaks?! What?! The guy just inherited so much cash from his father and convinced banks to give him the sweetest deals that he couldn't spend himself poor.
Musk, OTOH, is better at recognizing a good business opportunity. He's talented at driving people to work hard, but his methods are unethical and unsustainable over the long run. His antics at Twitter could easily cost him relationships with advertisers that are essential to his success and he has 10s of billions of dollars in investments from people he needs to keep happy riding on his ability to make Twitter profitable. I've come to believe he's an undisciplined sociopath and narcissist, which, for whatever smarts one wishes to ascribe to him, are going to cost him dearly in the long run.
Self-mythologising seems to be the really necessary talent, and people willing to believe it.