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Government Entity's Excluding "Off-Topic" Comments on Social Media Posts May Be Constitutional
From Krasno v. Mnookin, decided yesterday by Magistrate Judge Stephen Crocker (W.D. Wisc.):
Although there is no requirement of narrow tailoring in a nonpublic forum, the government's restrictions still must be viewpoint neutral and must be "reasonable in light of the purpose served by the forum." In order to show that a speech restriction is "reasonable," the government must show that its restraint: (1) furthers a "permissible objective;" and (2) contains "objective, workable standards" that are "capable of reasoned application."
{[C]ourts often describe a forum opened by the government that is limited to certain speakers or subjects as a "limited public forum." Although most of these cases use the term interchangeably with "nonpublic," meaning that regulations in both are subject to a lower level of scrutiny, at times the term "limited public forum" has been used to describe a subcategory of "designated public" fora subject to the strict scrutiny test. In the instant case, when the University argues that the comment threads to its social media posts are "limited public" fora, I understand it to mean a forum governed by the reasonableness and viewpoint neutrality requirements applied to "nonpublic" fora. To avoid confusion, I will use the term "nonpublic" in this opinion to designate such a forum.}
[T]he University has a legitimate, viewpoint-neutral interest in limiting the comment threads to discussion of or reaction to the specific topic of the University's post. The University uses its Facebook page and Instagram account as channels to communicate official University announcements, events and policies to the public, including its student body, and as a means of promoting the UW-Madison "brand." With respect to the interactive comment threads, the University monitors what other social media users are saying in response to the University's posts, to see how its content is generally being received and to see the reactions its posts are generating. The University also wants to see if anyone has questions, and it may engage in its own speech in the comment threads to answer them. Allowing off-topic comments to proliferate makes it more difficult for the University to engage with its followers and to see comments to which it may wish to respond.
It also is legitimate for the University to consider the distraction that off-topic comments may present to other users seeking to engage in and to discuss the topic of the University's post. It is reasonable for the University to conclude that these other users may be less inclined to leave a comment, to ask a question, or to engage in on-topic discussion with other users if the University's pages are fraught with off-topic comments…. "[F]ailure to effectively moderate a public discussion may be as deleterious to dialogue in such a forum as censorship." There is nothing unreasonable about the University preferring that the interactive comment threads have the look and feel of a brown bag lunch discussion rather than its open-air Library Mall at the foot of State Street.
Krasno argues that this court should find the University's goal of preserving its comment threads for on-topic discussion to be illegitimate because the University has not come forth with evidence of a time when a large volume of off-topic comments that actually prevented it from seeing a comment to which it would have responded, or with evidence that other users have complained or stopped commenting because of a proliferation of such comments. Krasno further points out that, unlike other public fora such as board meetings, where irrelevant commentary can take up the board's limited time for conducting business, Facebook and Instagram are designed to host dozens, if not hundreds of comments within a user's posts. In light of this, contends Krasno, off-topic comments are not inherently more disruptive of the purpose of the forum than large amounts of on-topic comments, which the University indisputably tolerates.
I agree with Krasno that the University's stated interests in limiting its fora to on-topic speech are not so strong as to be unassailable, but in a nonpublic forum, they don't have to be. "In contrast to a public forum, a finding of strict incompatibility between the nature of the speech or the identity of the speaker and the functioning of the nonpublic forum is not mandated." Thus, whether large volumes of on-topic speech may or may not be disruptive is not the question; the question is whether it is unreasonable for the University to prohibit off-topic speech. Given that the University has a legitimate interest in hosting a moderated forum for discussion of the subjects on which it posts, off-topic comments are, by definition, more disruptive than on-topic comments….
Having concluded that the University may hide or delete off-topic comments, the remaining question to be answered is whether the University's off-topic rule, which is undoubtedly viewpoint neutral on its face, is "capable of reasoned application." To meet this test, "the State must be able to articulate some sensible basis for distinguishing what may come in from what must stay out." Minnesota Voters Alliance v. Mansky. This does not require eliminating all discretion but merely that any discretion "must be guided by objective, workable standards." In Mansky, for example, the Court found that Minnesota's law prohibiting anyone from wearing a "political" badge, button or other political insignia at a polling place was too vague to pass this test. Although the Court found that Minnesota had a legitimate interest in maintaining a polling place free of partisan discord, Minnesota had failed to offer any interpretations of the expansive term that were capable of reasoned application….
Although the Court recognized that election judges screening individuals at the entrance to the polls needed to have some degree of discretion and that "[p]erfect clarity and precise guidance" were not required, the problems with Minnesota's restriction went "beyond close calls on borderline or fanciful cases" and was therefore unreasonable….
[W]hether a statement is "off" or "on" topic is content and context specific. To apply it, one needs an objectively sufficient understanding of the substance and scope of the underlying topic. Even then, interpreting whether a comment is off this topic necessarily will involve a fair amount of interpretive discretion, because "the point at which speech becomes unduly repetitious or largely irrelevant is not mathematically determinable."
Krasno contends that the subjectivity inherent in deciding whether something is off topic, along with the undisputed evidence of inconsistent application, means that the University must abandon the rule. See Mansky ("It is 'self-evident' that an indeterminate prohibition carries with it '[t]he opportunity for abuse, especially where [it] has received a virtually open-ended interpretation.' "). However, Krasno hasn't explained how the University could preserve the forum for its intended use — discussion of the topics selected for posting by the University—without vesting significant discretion in its moderators. Depending on the nature of the forum, even a rule that "may defy objective description and may vary with individual circumstances" is not necessarily unreasonable. Griffin v. Secretary of Veterans Affairs (Fed. Cir. 2002) (rule vesting discretion in VA administrators to ensure that cemeteries remain "sacred to the honor and memory of those interred or memorialized there" was reasonable in light of characteristic nature and function of national cemeteries).
Here, just like in any moderated discussion, a fair amount of judgment must be vested in the moderator in order to ensure the forum serves its intended purpose. But that doesn't make the terms "not germane" or "off topic" wholly subject to the whims of the moderator. To the contrary, although reasonable people may have different degrees of tolerance for when something is "not germane" or "off topic," the terms as commonly understood are sufficiently objective to preclude wildly divergent applications, particularly now that the University has made clear in its Social Media Statement that the comparison point for relevancy purposes is the subject of the University's post. Further, by prohibiting its moderators from engaging in viewpoint discrimination, it has reduced the likelihood that the "off topic" rule will be used as a cudgel to stifle speech with which the moderator disagrees.
Finally, the existence of alternative channels of communication is a factor in the reasonableness analysis. Here, myriad alternative means of communication exist by which Krasno, fellow animal rights advocates—and everyone else in the world—may express their off-topic views about the University to the public. To the extent the internet has become the "modern public square," Krasno et omnes in mundo can say whatever they wish about the University on their own media accounts, major, popular platforms for which extend well beyond Facebook and Instagram. Given these alternatives and the University's professed intolerance of viewpoint discrimination, I am satisfied that the risk that the University may sometimes hide arguably relevant comments does not outweigh its interests in maintaining the comment threads for their intended purpose.
In sum, the University's rule allowing for moderation of off-topic comments is a reasonable and viewpoint neutral rule that furthers the University's permissible interest in preserving the interactive comment threads for discussion of the subjects posted by the University. Krasno is free to post her views about testing on animals on her own pages or anywhere else allowed on the internet. However, she has no First Amendment right to post them on the University's social media pages unless they are germane to the topic of the University's post….
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The devil is in the details.
Most of this analysis seems correct, but the "alternative channels of communication" analysis is wrong. If that were all that were required, almost no prohibition on speech would ever be invalid. If the University wants to limit the comments to its posts to be on the topic of that specific post, then it needs to also have an unlimited topic area at least some of the time where people can talk about other issues. People cannot be limited to only talking about the "great thing the university is doing" and not the bad stuff too.
Good thing it's not "all that is required" then. It's one factor in the reasonable analysis, not the only factor.
Why would the University need to be the one providing the alternate channels? Krasno has literally the entire world of alternate channels to choose from. Requiring the University to provide a separate "off topic channel" in order to keep a different channel on-topic sounds pretty ridonkulous to me.
It is the government that must ensure that the speaker is afforded a forum that is accessible and where the intended audience is expected to pass. Just saying he can speak in some place where his audience isn’t, is not sufficient. For instance in Million Youth March, Inc. v. Safir (S.D.N.Y. 1998), New York City denied a permit request by the Nation of Islam to hold a rally in Harlem, insisting that the rally be held instead on Randall’s Island. Located in the middle of the East River between Manhattan and Queens. Court rejected that as a sufficient alternative.
Its not a balancing test. For a time-place-manner restriction to be valid it MUST be content-neutral, serve a significant government interest, be narrowly tailored to serve that interest, and leave open ample alternative channels of communication. Its not like it can not be content neutral but that be balanced against the interest. Its not a time-place-manner restriction then.
No, that is not the government’s responsibility. You are correct that the precedent you cite describes the obligation to leave open a viable opportunity for alternative communication but it does not create an obligation on the government to create that alternative in the first place.
Consider a different example. University of Deitetics has a great speaker coming to town who will talk about nutrition. They open their classroom to the community to hear learn about nutrition and to talk with the speaker. Allowing the speech on nutrition does not suddenly require the university to open all their classrooms all night every night to people who want to hold political rallies, protest the NSA’s privacy abuses, lobby for better police oversight, etc. It doesn’t even obligate the university to open their classrooms to someone who wants to complain about the university dorm rooms. The university can’t (and shouldn’t) stop any of that speech but they don’t have to affirmatively give you a forum for it.
I’m not saying the government has an obligation to create the forum for communication. But it does have an obligation to, as you say, leave open a forum that is accessible and where the intended audience is expected to pass. Is your intended audience going to randomly go read your personal twitter feed? No, so that is not a viable forum for the the intended audience, and it is the governments obligation to ensure such a forum exists. If such a forum doesn't already exist, and the government still wishes to restrict speech in that way, then it must create such a forum.
If, given your example, the government allows discussion of nutrition in the classroom, but not, as in your example, political rallies. Then the government does have an obligation to ensure that there is a forum for such political rallies that would reach the intended audience that would otherwise attend the classroom. It may not be in the classroom, they can have alternative locations, but whatever those are have to reasonably be able to reach the same audience. It might be the courtyard or some other designated area, but such forums must exist with the ability to reach the same audience for the government to restrict speech in that way.
Watkins — Your commentary seems to posit:
1. That a government sponsored forum to discuss Topic A will draw an audience which might possibly contain people who would also be interested in unrelated Topic B, and;
2. Therefore, to sponsor a Forum to discuss Topic A, government must also sponsor forums on every unrelated topic which someone in the audience for Topic A might conceivably take an interest in.
That seems so peculiar that I assume I must misunderstand what you are getting at. Can you set me straight.
No, the government simply has no such obligation. What law or precedent leads you to think there is?
I ask because the case you cited above doesn't do it. That case merely said that the government could not foreclose all viable fora for someone who wanted to speak. The government did not provide the forum.
You are applying the limited public forum test, but the finding of the court was that this was a nonpublic forum. Regulations on the use of nonpublic fora are not required to be content neutral.
(Safir is particularly irrelevant, because that involved a traditional public forum.)
Why does the university have any obligation to do this?
At a legislative meeting, say a city council, the legislature has no obligation to conduct a second, alternative meeting where citizens can talk about anything they want to in order to be allowed to conduct a meeting where the public is only permitted to comment on the legislative business at hand.
Why should a university have more obligations to the public than a city council or other legislature?
Well it might be because that IS the channel you want your view heard on. You can't say being barred from Slate can't be unfair because you could go to Lucianne and speak your peace. Yeah, but I want the Slate audience so the point falls, completely.
RENATA — You are an internet utopian. Your kind are legion. Most internet-related commentary on this blog comes from utopians like you.
Relentlessly narrow focus—to the exclusion of all other considerations—on personal communications experience, is the field mark of internet utopianism. Internet utopians demand an optimized communications experience. That means not merely optimized to the limit of practical possibility, but optimized past the point of every possibility.
Internet utopians demand personal communication powers without limit, at no cost, world-wide, without editing, and without liability. Aside from obvious absurdity, there are practical reasons why you can’t have that. They have to do with what publishing is, how it is organized, where the money comes from to keep the communications going, the separate activities which publishers must practice to enable your communications, and other boring stuff you pay no attention.
Suffice to say, any attempt to deliver what you demand—for instance if it were ordered by government fiat to be delivered to you—would wipe out the publishing capacity to deliver it. That is what makes your demand utopian, the fact that the nature of the demand is paradoxically destructive of the means to deliver it.
To understand why, you have to understand how publishing works (and why internet commentary actually is publishing, no matter what anyone says to the contrary). I have tried repeatedly to explain that stuff to internet utopians, without getting back even a hint that any of them want to hear it, so for now I am out of that. Good luck figuring it out.
I doubt their definition of "off topic" is unbiased. Like having government employees define what government can do.
Good thing the opinion address that very concern. And Plaintiff is presumably free to file a new complaint if demonstrably on-topic posts are regularly deleted under the guise of being off-topic.
A quick skim of the opinion indicates to me the Plaintiff is spamming UW-Madison's social media with posts about animal rights:
What is your basis for assuming that spamming animal rights spam are actually on-topic for UW Madison's social media?
Good thing I was addressing the general issue then. Perhaps the part of my comment you left out should have been more explicit.
Spam is a problem, but seems less of one than the potential for "off-topic" abuse.
For example, why couldn't the University declare Krasno's objections to the University's animal testing policies off topic for every topic except (maybe) posts by the University about, specifically, animal testing?
Posts about student life? Animal testing is off topic.
Posts about events? Animal testing is off topic.
Posts about research results? Animal testing is off topic ("This post is about the research results, not ethics or testing processes - please confine your comments to this topic").
Posts about animal testings? "I'm sorry, this topic is to discuss the specific study's measurement of animal testing efficiency vs human testing. Please confine your comments on morality to the appropriate post." - Off topic.
Even if the University does not intend to abuse their "off-topic" powers, a strict and honest application of the rule can easily produce the same result.
Exactly. Potential abuse always comes true.
And if (when, in your assumptions) there is a pattern of abusing "off-topic" when it's pretty obviously reasonably on-topic, then PETA can sue to be included. For example, if there's a UW Madison social media post about animal testing and PETA is bounced from it with the (transparent) excuse that it's off-topic, they can and should consider legal action. Because then they've got a plausible case of viewpoint discrimination, not a general rule against off topic posts.
Until then, I'm fine with slapping an "off topic" label on PETA when they routinely and consistently spam UW Madison social media with the same tired PETA blather. And they can happily keep buying PETA ads on the sides of metro buses here in Madisonland, which I see a few times a day and have little problem with.
I'm curious though, what's your alternative solution?
"Pattern", "abusing", "pretty obviously", "reasonably", "on-topic". That's a lot of subjective qualifiers that someone has to make it past, before they might be able to get somewhere. How many years do you think it would take for a lawsuit to be able to modify the University polices in some way?
As I pointed out, it doesn't even need to be deliberate abuse of the off-topic rules to shut down entire viewpoints. All the University would need to do is only post "on-topic" posts about topic beneficial to them. Honest enforcement of the permitted "off-topic" bans would produce the same effect, even if there was no explicit desire to shut down any particular speech.
As for the fact that people can post elsewhere, how is that relevant? It would not be acceptable to claim that someone could advertise their views on city busses, therefore they can be banned from radio or television.
As for what I would prefer, it's that the traditional restrictions for public forums be applied - and flat forbid shadow bans (which is just a ban combined with fraud to deceive the victim). Does that still leave room for subjectivity and abuse? Sure. But as far as I can tell, less so than a vaguely written, subjective policy with truckloads of wiggle room with no actual restrictions, that can be changed at the whim of the University:
But what makes the situation different from a legislature holding a public hearing? If a city council conducts a meeting to talk about housing or the police, animal testing is off topic. The council (or the presiding officer) gets some leeway to determine what’s off topic. But if a person is refused for something obviously on topic, the person cut off can sue. Professor Volokh recently posted a case outlining the law on this.
Why should a university have more obligations to the public than a legislature holding a public hearing?
I agree with your example about public hearings but it has no bearing on the university.One is political and the other educational.
Maybe I shouldn't be able to point out in the House what a jumped-up cow Pelosi is but in a university where is the relevance of what you say? I pay their salaries, I am their for my betterment, not for theirs.
Because they are public servants who are there to serve the public’s purposes, particularly education and research. They are not your personal servants with nothing else to do than listen to your ranting.
You would need to prove that, though.
‘I’ll bet the government will abuse this!’ Is an Internet yelling thing, not a legal argument.
If the first amendment protected this, I could submit a paper about my pet dog instead of taking my organic chemistry test and that professor couldn’t do anything about it.
Do you take your organic chemistry tests through your university's official social media accounts?
Among other problems.
The First Amendment only applies to official social media accounts?
I struggle to see how your organic chemistry exam could be considered any sort of public forum, unlike the University's social media accounts.
In which case, why do you think this ruling would have anything to do with what you hand in?
ONLY if that were a first amendment case, if it were then why restrict the first amendment right of your teacher to say your paper is crap. Always we get back to those who pretend to examine a case but pre-pick the categories. Like those who call abortion a moral right but call pro-life a religious position
Do they teach Logic in Law School any more?
Schools should be places where children learn how to think, not just how to do things. The goal of learning science should be understanding rather than memorizing facts and must try this https://au.australianwritings.com/dissertation-help/ site to build quality papers for college. When students understand science, they will enjoy it more and be able to apply it in their daily lives. They will also be able to ask questions about the world around them and find answers.
Local governments and officials are increasingly using social media to communicate with the public. Anyone who has recently scrolled through Facebook or Twitter can attest to the fact that comment sections on social media posts are frequently filled with negativity and incivility. County, city, connections and individual public official social media pages are no exception.