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Requirement of Serial Numbers on Guns Violates Second Amendment
From U.S. v. Price, decided yesterday by Judge Joseph R. Goodwin (S.D. W. Va.):
Section 922(k) states, in pertinent part,
It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to transport … in interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered or to possess … any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce….
18 U.S.C. § 922(k).
The threshold question [under Bruen] is whether Section 922(k) prohibits conduct that is protected by the plain text of the Second Amendment. The Government argues that it does not because the requirement that firearms bear serial numbers is, in its view, a "commercial regulation" that does not "infringe" on one's right to keep and bear arms. The Government's argument relies mainly on its contention that no relevant Supreme Court precedent casts "doubt on laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms." In his concurring opinion in Bruen, Justice Kavanaugh explained that the Court did not intend "to cast doubt on … laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms." This idea is rooted in Heller and McDonald—precedent that Bruen reaffirmed—which also left commercial regulations untouched. This makes sense because commercial regulations that apply only to manufacturers and sellers do not implicate an individual's right of possession.
Importantly though, the statute at issue here is not a commercial regulation. Rather, 18 U.S.C. § 923(i) is the commercial regulation that requires manufacturers to place serial numbers on firearms: "Licensed importers and manufacturers shall identify by means of a serial number engraved or cast on the receiver or frame of the weapon … each firearm imported or manufactured by such importer or manufacturer." Other commercial regulations may well require that any firearm sale only involve firearms bearing a manufacturer's serial number. Section 922(k) goes farther. It criminalizes the mere possession of a firearm after a serial number is removed, obliterated, or altered in any way, whether or not the firearm is then placed into commerce.
Assume, for example, that a law-abiding citizen purchases a firearm from a sporting goods store. At the time of the sale, that firearm complies with the commercial regulation that it bear a serial number. The law-abiding citizen takes the firearm home and removes the serial number. He has no ill intent and never takes any otherwise unlawful action with the firearm. Contrary to the Government's argument that Section 922(k) does not amount to an "infringement" on the law-abiding citizen's Second Amendment right, the practical application is that while the law-abiding citizen's possession of the firearm was originally legal, it became illegal only because the serial number was removed. He could be prosecuted federally for his possession of it. That is the definition of an infringement on one's right to possess a firearm.
Now, assume that the law-abiding citizen dies and leaves his gun collection to his law-abiding daughter. The daughter takes the firearms, the one with the removed serial number among them, to her home and displays them in her father's memory. As it stands, Section 922(k) also makes her possession of the firearm illegal, despite the fact that it was legally purchased by her father and despite the fact that she was not the person who removed the serial number. These scenarios make clear that Section 922(k) is far more than the mere commercial regulation the Government claims it to be. Rather, it is a blatant prohibition on possession. The conduct prohibited by Section 922(k) falls squarely within the Second Amendment's plain text….
Having found that Section 922(k) does implicate conduct that is protected by the Second Amendment, the statute is presumptively unconstitutional unless the Government can show that "it is consistent with the Nation's historical tradition of firearm regulation." This analysis is constrained by the Supreme Court's definition of "historical tradition" as the time of the founding and ratification of the Second Amendment in 1791. According to Bruen, "[h]istorical evidence that long predates [the ratification] … may not illuminate the scope of the right if linguistic or legal conventions changed in the intervening years." Likewise, the Court cautions that lower courts "must also guard against giving postenactment history more weight than it can rightly bear," by only considering those postenactment sources that help "determine the public understanding of [the Second Amendment]" at the time of its ratification.
Taking those instructions together, the crux of the historical inquiry is to determine the understanding of the right at the time it was enshrined in the Constitution. Any modern regulation that does not comport with the historical understanding of the right is to be deemed unconstitutional, regardless of how desirable or important that regulation may be in our modern society….
Prior to Bruen, courts considering the constitutionality of Section 922(k) found that the requirement that a serial number not be removed was a minimal burden on lawful gun owners compared to the value serial numbers provide to society. Specifically, by requiring serial numbers and "channeling the sales of firearms through federally licensed dealers," who keep a record of those sales, the Gun Control Act on the whole helps to keep firearms out of the hands of "individuals whose possession of them would be contrary to the public interest." And, the Third Circuit explained, "It is no secret that a chain of custody for a firearm greatly assists in the difficult process of solving crimes. When a firearm is stolen, determining this chain is difficult and when serial numbers are obliterated, it is virtually impossible." Certainly, the usefulness of serial numbers in solving gun crimes makes Section 922(k) desirable for our society. But the Supreme Court no longer permits such an analysis.
Under Bruen, I am limited to considering whether Section 922(k) is "consistent with the Nation's historical tradition of firearm regulation." Where the regulation confronts a longstanding "perceived societal problem" that the founders could have addressed but either did not address or addressed through "materially different means," the regulation is unconstitutional. On the other hand, where the societal problem addressed by the regulation is "unprecedented," such that it would have been "unimaginable at the founding" or is based on "dramatic technological changes," the approach may be more nuanced. In those instances, the Government may point to an analogous regulation in the relevant historical tradition as evidence that the modern regulation is constitutional. In either case, the burden is on the Government to establish the constitutionality of Section 922(k)….
Serial numbers were not broadly required for all firearms manufactured and imported in the United States until the passage of the Gun Control Act of 1968…. Notably, these prohibitions were only on transporting, shipping, or receiving firearms—that is to say, when the firearms were in the stream of commerce.
Even in 1968 there was no prohibition on mere possession of a firearm that had the serial number altered or removed. In fact, it was not until the Crime Control Act of 1990 that Section 922 was amended to insert "or to possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce." …
Given this history, the "societal problem[s]" addressed by Section 922(k) appear to be crime, including crime involving stolen firearms, and assisting law enforcement in solving crime. It is difficult to imagine that this societal problem did not exist at the founding. While firearms then were not the same as firearms today, there certainly were gun crimes that might have been more easily investigated if firearms had to be identifiable by a serial number or other mark. The Government has presented no evidence, and the court is not aware of any, that any such requirement existed in 1791. And, insofar as the Gun Control Act was intended to keep firearms out of the hands of those who might commit crimes with them, there is evidence, as I discuss later, that the founders addressed that problem through materially different means. According to Bruen, that the societal problem addressed by Section 922(k) was likely in existence at the founding but not addressed by similar means "is relevant evidence that the challenged regulation is inconsistent with the Second Amendment."
Even assuming the societal problem addressed by the regulation is "unprecedented," such that it would have been "unimaginable at the founding" or is based on "dramatic technological changes," it is the Government's burden to show that there were analogous regulations at the time to support Section 922(k)'s constitutionality. In an attempt to meet its burden, the Government argues broadly that there is a historical tradition of "restricting the types of weapons that can be possessed," and that "there is a general historical practice of imposing 'conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.'" As I have already held, Section 922(k) is not a commercial regulation because it criminalizes possession even after a firearm is out of the stream of commerce. Evidence of historical commercial regulations is therefore inapposite.
As for its argument that restrictions on certain types of weapons are constitutional, the Government starts and stops by explaining that the Court in Heller acknowledged three permissible limits: the firearms must be "bearable arms" to receive protection, the arms must not be "dangerous or unusual weapons," and the arms must be kinds in "common use." The Government makes no attempt to explain how any of these limits are analogous to Section 922(k)'s prohibition on possessing a firearm without a serial number, and I find no apparent analogue….
[Among other things,] I can find no authority for the idea that a firearm without a serial number would meet the historical definition of a dangerous or unusual firearm. In fact, as the Government points out, the commercial requirement that a serial number be placed on a firearm "does not impair the use or functioning of a weapon in any way." …
A firearm without a serial number in 1791 was certainly not considered dangerous or unusual compared to other firearms because serial numbers were not required or even commonly used at that time. While I recognize there is an argument, not made by the Government here, that firearms with an obliterated serial number are likely to be used in violent crime and therefore a prohibition on their possession is desirable, that argument is the exact type of means-end reasoning the Supreme Court has forbidden me from considering. And the founders addressed the "societal problem" of non-law-abiding citizens possessing firearms through "materially different means"—felon disarmament laws like Section 922(g)(1). Under Bruen, this is "evidence that [the] modern regulation is unconstitutional."
I appreciate the court's careful analysis, and I'm glad it takes Second Amendment rights seriously. But I think Bruen provides more room for regulations such as this, which have very little effect on people's ability to keep and bear arms. This is particularly clear in footnote 9 to the majority's opinion, which upheld licensing requirements for carrying guns:
To be clear, nothing in our analysis should be interpreted to suggest the unconstitutionality of the 43 States' "shall-issue" licensing regimes, under which "a general desire for self-defense is sufficient to obtain a [permit]."
Because these licensing regimes do not require applicants to show an atypical need for armed self-defense, they do not necessarily prevent "law-abiding, responsible citizens" from exercising their Second Amendment right to public carry. Rather, it appears that these shall-issue regimes, which often require applicants to undergo a background check or pass a firearms safety course, are designed to ensure only that those bearing arms in the jurisdiction are, in fact, "law-abiding, responsible citizens." And they likewise appear to contain only "narrow, objective, and definite standards" guiding licensing officials, rather than requiring the "appraisal of facts, the exercise of judgment, and the formation of an opinion"—features that typify proper-cause standards like New York's.
That said, because any permitting scheme can be put toward abusive ends, we do not rule out constitutional challenges to shall-issue regimes where, for example, lengthy wait times in processing license applications or exorbitant fees deny ordinary citizens their right to public carry.
Of course, licensing requirements do interfere in some measure with the right to carry guns: they impose at least some "wait times" and some "fees." Nor did the Court suggest that there was a longstanding tradition or history supporting such licensing requirements.
Rather, the Court suggested that a modest burden, which does not "prevent" the exercise of the right, would be constitutional, at least so long as it serves the traditionally recognized government interest in "ensur[ing] … that those bearing arms … are … 'law-abiding, responsible citizens.'" "[L]engthy wait times" would be unconstitutional, but modest ones would be fine. "[E]xorbitant fees" would be unconstitutional, but modest ones would be fine.
And this is reflected in the Court's more general discussion. The Court distinguished some earlier, historically recognized, gun controls on the grounds that "[n]one of these restrictions imposed a substantial burden on public carry analogous to the burden created by New York's restrictive licensing regime." "[T]he burden these surety statutes may have had on the right to public carry was likely too insignificant to shed light on New York's proper-cause standard."
The Court also said that the Second Amendment inquiry must focus on "whether modern and historical regulations impose a comparable burden on the right of armed self-defense, and second, whether that regulatory burden is comparably justified," and on "how and why the regulations burden a law-abiding citizen's right to armed self-defense." That too suggests that the magnitude of the burden matters.
Given that guns with serial numbers are indeed, as the court pointed out, just as effective at self-defense as guns without, the serial number requirement seems to me to be a much lighter burden than the burden of objective, easy-to-comply-with licensing requirements, which the Court in Burden endorsed. True, the serial number requirement does interfere with the privacy of gun transactions and gun ownership, and privacy hawks may be concerned about that. But of course the shall-issue laws upheld in Bruen also interfered with the privacy of gun carrying, since people would need to identify themselves to the government to get the license. (Note that Bruen held that carrying guns was just as protected as home ownership, so I don't think the serial number requirement can be distinguished from the carry license requirements on the basis that the serial numbers must be present even on guns kept in the home.)
And though the serial number requirement isn't directly "designed to ensure only that those bearing arms in the jurisdiction are, in fact, 'law-abiding, responsible citizens,'" it is designed to deter and more effectively punish criminal misuse of guns by non-law-abiding people, which of course is even more clearly outside the Second Amendment than is possession by such people. I expect the government to appeal, so it will be interesting to see what the Fourth Circuit says.
Congratulations to Lex A. Coleman of the West Virginia Public Defender's Office, who prevailed on this issue.
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Hey, uhm, where’s Jackie?
Off in the Reason blog, not here in the legal blog.
Yes, daddy.
Aren’t most serial numbers stamped or engraved into the metal, not raised? I can’t look at mine right now, but memory says most are removed metal, not added, and almost impossible to remove. I confess I never thought of getting rid of them.
I have a few firearms, all with serial numbers cut into metal. A few minutes with a Dremel tool and the right bit could remove all of the serial numbers.
Without weakening the barrel?
Serial numbers are not always on the barrel. In fact I’d be surprised if they are not on the receiver or controlled part of the firearm that the ATF rules is the gun part of the ‘gun’.
Import marks can be put on the barrel, usually on the underside of the firearm. However, the method may be different with each importer. Century Arms for instance has (at least in the past, its been awhile) stamped their mark on barrel undersides with a dot matrix type stamp that doesn’t go very deep into the metal. As far as strength goes, I too would worry enough that if it mattered to me at all that the Import marking was there or not I would just replace the barrel.
Ah ….. yes, hadn’t thought of that. Receivers are a lot less critical that way. Thanks.
Amazing the details I don’t notice when they don’t seem important. But now that I am curious, I will have to take a lookie tonight.
The serial number is never on the barrel. The serial number is on the frame of a pistol or on the receiver of a rifle.
A barrel is a replacement part. No different from a trigger, hammer, sear, firing pin, slide, slide stop, etc., etc.
With US manufactured guns the serial number is generally stamped in. The stamping process affects the density of the metal through it’s entire thickness.
While you can grind the number off so it’s not immediately visible with the naked eye, an acid etch which causes color differences in metals of differing density will generally make the serial number readable again.
Not so much the density, as steel is essentially incompressible. It distorts the existing grain pattern. But the end result is the same.
So the statutory requirement is really just about making serial number identification of firearms “easier”, rather than “possible”.
Not really.
The FBI has technology to recover the serial number even if you do grind it off.
Now I suppose if you use a high pressure stamping device or very high heat to frustrate the FBI, but certainly it’s nowhere as easy as just grinding it off.
Which of course means there is no real need to outlaw possession of a gun with the serial number removed.
It is perhaps worth noting that the judge also rejected a challenge to § 922(g) (the federal felon in possession prohibition), so this is result is probably not much comfort to Mr. Price. (Indeed, beyond saving him $100, it will likely have absolutely no effect on his sentencing exposure).
Although I can’t blame defendants for trying, and of course judges are obligated to resolve the questions they are put in front of them, then more that these questions come up as defenses in criminals cases (particularly cases that predate Bruen), the worse it’s likely to be for gun rights in the long run.
Apart from the Second Amendment issue, if the judge is correct that the statute is not a commercial regulation, what authority does Congress have to enact it?
It’s in the “We can do whatever we want” Clause. Ask Nancy Pelosi.
Precisely.
This right here.
Until the special (unconstitutional) tax scheme placed on COMMERCIAL firearm manufacture is challenged under Bruen, this emphasis on the serial TAX number will continue to plague us.
I would have actually thought the serial number requirement would be more directly permitted by Congress’ power over the militia rather than the commerce clause. Even without a call-up there needs to be some idea of what weapons are available to the people. A lack of serial numbers would allow the same item to be presented twice, thereby defeating the purpose of maintaining such a list.
Why?
Says who?
Surveys show more than enough guns in the country for every single person, and give a pretty good idea of what they are. More detail is unnecessary.
Just so.
1. The government calls out the militia.
2. Those of the militia who choose to respond show up.
3. The government decides if they have sufficient force for their needs.
(one of the characteristics of a militia army is the ability to tell the government “this fight is not worth it”. The fact that the National Guard cannot refuse activation is why it is ‘the military’ and not a militia)
Indeed, aside from the fact that you could afford a much larger militia than army, that was supposed to be the primary virtue of the militia system: That the militia would actually refuse to obey the government on occasion, limiting the ability of the government to use the militia to oppress the people or engage in foreign adventures.
Come the Spanish American war, it actually worked that way, and the government started to sour on the militia system.
Bellmore, the government started to sour on the militia system at Cambridge, MA, when would-be militia poured in without arms, and especially without gun powder. Washington and Hamilton went on to become thoroughgoing opponents of militia. And of course, your notion that the militia must remain unreliable is tantamount to a requirement for a standing army—if for no other reason than to suppress insurrections fomented by rogue militias.
More generally, there is nothing in American constitutionalism to support any notion of militia power as a rival to popular sovereignty and constitutional government.
Militia power isn’t supposed to be a rival to popular sovereignty, Lathrop. As the militia ARE the people, it’s supposed to be a direct, unmediated expression of popular sovereignty.
They were not opponents of the militia, they were proponents of a regular army.
It’s not an either/or proposition. The militia is necessary for opposing unexpected raids and against other irregular troops. The regular army is necessary to oppose other regular troops, and to match their training and discipline on a more equal basis.
Reminds me vaguely of the unfunded mandates that Feds often push on states. Who pays for the change in serial numbers? Let me guess…and that is preserving our rights?
“”[L]engthy wait times” would be unconstitutional, but modest ones would be fine. “[E]xorbitant fees” would be unconstitutional, but modest ones would be fine.”
So by analogy, modest wait times between registering to vote and being allowed to vote are OK? (No registering on election day)
A modest poll tax is just fine, but not an “exorbitant” one?
I love how every constitutional right has the same weight and level of protection of individual rights.
Longtobefree: Poll taxes in federal elections are specifically precluded, in any amount, by the Twenty-Fourth Amendment. But absent such a prohibition, modest fees for parade permits and the like are constitutional. A requirement that people register to vote 50 days before the election is also constitutional.
So by analogy, modest wait times between registering to vote and being allowed to vote are OK?
No analogy there. Voting is not a right. It is a sovereign power which government cannot legitimately constrain.
Love it! Now tell us about the color of the fringe on the flag.
mulched — During most of the 17th century, and well into the 18th, events in Britain were convulsed again and again by contests over questions of sovereignty. It became the subject of one of the greatest works ever written on the subject of political philosophy, Hobbes’ Leviathan. One of America’s greatest historians, Edmund Morgan, wrote one of his greatest books, Inventing the People on the subject. Numerous leading founders, including especially Madison, Franklin, and James Wilson, were attentive scholars of European events touching on questions of sovereignty. Their opinions greatly influenced the American founding, and thereby modified views on sovereignty and governance world-wide. And all you know about it is that some crackpots ignorantly abuse the term, “sovereignty.” You have a lot to learn.
“But I think Bruen provides more room for regulations such as this, which have very little effect on people’s ability to keep and bear arms.”
I think that’s fair to say, but at the same time, that’s only because Bruen isn’t taking fully seriously the 2nd amendment as a real, full blown civil right. The Court still hasn’t quite progressed from desperately pretending the 2nd amendment didn’t exist, (As it did for nearly 70 years.) all the way to according it full treatment as a constitutional right. They’re at a kind of rest stop in between, at the moment.
Let’s take a 1st amendment analogy: Color printers are equipped to print an essentially invisible, (Unless you have a good eye and know what to look for!) pattern of yellow dots on their paper, which encodes the identity of the printer. This enables a forensic examination to track documents such as forged currency back to the owner of the printer. It’s called a Machine Identification Code, MIC, and it’s a very close analogy to proposed microstamping proposals in guns. Essentially it’s result of a secret agreement between major printer manufacturers and the government, but I suppose it could have been imposed as a regulation.
And yet absolutely no legal consequences can attach to just failing to keep any yellow ink/toner in your printer, or using an app to negate the MIP by deliberately adding more dots to scramble the code. (Used by smart whistleblowers to escape exposure.)
That’s because the 1st amendment is a first class constitutional right, and the 2nd amendment is still a second class right. Hopefully this will change with time, and it’s encouraging to see a court that takes the 2nd amendment seriously, even if the majority on the Supreme court haven’t yet got the integrity to do so.
Very intriguing ruling here. I wish this logic could be carried over to California’s stamping law, which goes far beyond stamping to a categorical ban.
For those unfamiliar with CA’s law, new models of semiautomatic pistols are required to have a mechanism to stamp the pistol’s serial number on two places on the cartridge. The problem is that this technology isn’t actually possible.
If a requirement to have a serial number on a firearm is an unconstitutional burden to the right to keep and bear arms, surely something that prevents law-abiding citizens from possessing firearms more recent than 2010 is more blatantly so.
You need to get out of here.
This could get ugly.
The pretext that federal gun control is just regulation of “interstate commerce” that happen to affect guns needs to be done away with. That will take action by the Supreme Court. Maybe a renewed challenge to the federal war on drugs will overrule Gonazles v. Raich and start the dominoes falling.
Overrule Gonzales v Raich and you’ll tumble some dominoes that lead the whole way back to Wickard v Filburn, which would not be a bad thing either.
I agree with EV’s view that serial numbers are a pretty de minimis restriction.
FWIW, I also think that they are mostly useful in solving the crime of gun theft … not any kind of violent crime. Murderers and robbers don’t get caught by gun traces, but by traditional means.
Honest question: when a police department encounters a firearm with recoverable serial number, is it ever returned to its owner? I understand that the practice will vary with jurisdiction.
Presumably, one justification for a serial number, and for registration, is to return one’s property if stolen. Would be great if that justification is ever realized.
I had a semi-auto pistol stolen, reported the theft, and about two years later received a call from a nearby county’s Marshal’s Offfice – the gun had been recovered during execution of a dispossessory warrant. It was returned to me. Whoever had it in their posession after it was stolen kept it cleaner than I ever did. The only thing wrong was the battery for the built in laser was dead. So in my case the use of a serial number in that scenario was realized.
Good for you! Mind you, that doesn’t require the government to know the serial number in advance of you reporting it stolen.
“Honest question: when a police department encounters a firearm with recoverable serial number, is it ever returned to its owner? I understand that the practice will vary with jurisdiction.”
It does happen. I have heard of jurisdictions that try to obstruct the process, i.e. demand an original receipt or whatever.
“Presumably, one justification for a serial number, and for registration, is to return one’s property if stolen.”
Most power tools have serial numbers, and I usually scribe my driver’s license number on them as well, for precisely that purpose. But if the serial number is damaged, it’s not a felony.
They’re mostly only theoretically useful for even that, though.
How do you know this?
Gun theft and also straw purchases. Person A buys gun, gives/sells it to Person B, a felon. Person B uses gun in crime, is caught, gun serial number is traced to Person A’s purchase.
But it’s actually pretty rare for serial numbers to usefully be employed in this way.
How do you know this?
Talk to cop friends, and read books of the ‘my time as a homicide detective’ genre.
I’m open to counter-argument, but I’ve heard enough cops say they aren’t useful that I’d need more than faith that tracing must must surely be useful.
Once in a while Fred might drop his newly-purchased-from-an-FFL gun next to the body of his murder victim and you can go ask Fred some awkward questions; it’s just not common. Crime guns generally go through a number of illegal sales before getting into the hands of the police.
(just to be clear, I wish it was easy to find crooks by tracing guns; I don’t like crooks. But my understanding it isn’t very common outside of TV shows)
Without serial numbers, how would the ATF have known that the “Project Gunrunner” and “Operation Fast and Furious” guns it allowed to be walked to Mexico ended up in the hands of the cartels and were used to murder at least one US federal agent, not to mention numerous Mexican cops and civilians? I mean, without the serial numbers, those responsible in the ATF might never have been held to account. Oh… wait… Never mind.
Here is a counterpoint from a major crimes detective on another forum:
“It’s sometimes helpful in shooting investigations. Dude pitches gun and is found 30 minutes later, claims no knowledge of gun, trace shows his girlfriend is original purchaser. Or Sumdood is original purchaser, but sumdood says he sold it on armslist to another Sumdood with this phone number a few days ago, phone number goes to a burner account used to set up a Facebook page that was used to set up a robbery (which went bad) on Facebook marketplace and other evidence ties shooter to that account.
Tracing straw purchasers who are supplying criminal enterprises, the whole “Indiana to Chicago illegal gun route” is very real and funds criminal enterprises on both ends.
Etc. It’s not always useful, as there is no registry so tracing guns often results in dead ends as it’s changed hands too many times or one link is uncooperative, but it is sometimes useful.”
In 1995, Canada instituted a registry of long guns. It was abolished in 2012 as an expensive and intrusive waste of time, which wasn’t actually solving any crimes.
And in 2021, a year after Trudeau instituted new gun bans? Gun owners discovered to their horror that police had violated the law requiring them to destroy those records, and had apparently secretly retained them.
Big shocker, that.
“Person B uses gun in crime, is caught, gun serial number is traced to Person A’s purchase.”
And if PersonA is dumb enough to volunteer that, yes, she bought the gun intending to sell it to PersonB, she might get prosecuted. Some of them are actually that dumb.
I’m not sure that self reporting is the only potential mechanism of registration.
IIUC, PersonA usually just says ‘OMG! The last time I saw it was when I put it in my sock drawer. My boyfriend must have swiped it on one of his sleepovers!’. At least once she talks to her public defender.
Or not; we’re not talking rocket scientists.
You might check out the number of successful prosecutions for straw purchases, which are … small relative to gun crime.
This is great stuff- but I still REALLY want you guys to give us your views on this decision by Judge Counts in Texas in US v Collette on 9/25 upholding the ban on felons having firearms. You have to have something to say about a judge finding that felons are not longer “the people” under our constituion.
Not a great idea from a policy perspective, if you ask me. And there’s a really serious problem with felony inflation; A huge range of things are felonies today that once would have been misdemeanors, if not simply legal.
But that felonies can be punished by deprivation of civil rights is pretty well established.
At most I might argue with the notion that the federal government is entitled to impose such a penalty on people consequent to state convictions. I think it’s the sort of thing that really needs to be imposed at sentencing.
There’s the fiction that these things aren’t “punishments”. But another term for a legal fiction is a “lie”.
Is not the best remedy to eliminate the specific portion of the 1990 amendment to the Act that requires the possessor to have a serial numbered firearm?
This ruling changed nothing about the requirement for manufacturers to include a serial number.
But this also addresses an issue which is not mentioned here: the personal manufacture of firearms. Individuals are now able to build their own firearms and when they are not being sold, are not subject to the manufacturers requirement to include a serial number except as it pertains to the 1990 amended law.
“Now” able? Individuals have been able to build their own firearms since there have been firearms.
And, barring state law, firearms manufactured by yourself, for your own use, do not require a serial number until such time as you decide to transfer them to somebody else.
Now, this might have some interesting implications for the new Biden administration regulation on gun making kits, having to be treated as guns, including being serial numbered. At least if the reasoning is extended, since the regulation is being applied to things that aren’t even guns yet, in anticipation of their being made into guns.
Brett, true, “now” may not be the right word to use. But what I was getting at is that possession of a firearm that has no serial number is a violation of the law. Even if you made it yourself, you are in violation. This ruling, would nullify that particular portion of the law.
Yeah, and what I’m getting at is that you’re wrong about that. (As a matter of federal law, anyway.) It is NOT illegal to possess a firearm with no serial number, if you made it yourself. It’s illegal to possess one that’s had a serial number removed.
If you made it yourself, without a serial number, you’re in the clear. Federally. You only have to serialize it if you’re passing it on to somebody else.
for now. See Bidens ghost gun rule.
Even the ghost gun rule is still, for now, just a regulation of licensed manufacturers. Though their interpretation of “firearm” is pretty dubious, they’re approaching the point of declaring a bare billet of metal to be a firearm at this point.
Even if you made it yourself, you are in violation.
100% incorrect.
“And, barring state law, firearms manufactured by yourself, for your own use, do not require a serial number until such time as you decide to transfer them to somebody else.”
No serial number is required for DIY guns (or guns originally made by licensed manufacturers prior to the aerial number requirement), even if transferred.
The federal requirements for DIY guns are 1)you can’t make something that is otherwise illegal (e.g. full auto) and 2)you can’t make it with the intention of selling it.
“possession of a firearm that has no serial number is a violation of the law”
Not as far as federal law is concerned. It wasn’t uncommon for cheaper guns, like single shot 22’s to not have a serial number. I have a double barrel 12 gauge that was manufactured without one. The 4473 instructions say to fill in the serial number for such guns as “NSN” (No Serial Number), “N/A” or “None.”
It has been my understanding (perhaps wrongly) for decades that a firearm only requires a serial number if it is intended to be sold.
The only concern I would have about this law being upheld, is the scenario where someone manufactured a gun with the intent to sell it, serialized it, and then decided against selling it so the serial number was destroyed.
That should not amount to criminal behavior.
Inconvenience ≠ Burden
And what’s the time difference between “lengthy” and “modest” wait times?
It appears, in this judges opinion, that serial numbers are OK. The problem arises when the .gov criminalizes “the people” from doing what they wish with their legally owned property. Preventing the .gov yet another way to create felons for “crimes” with no injury should be celebrated.
Also, Heller said “dangerous and unusual” not “or” as they tried to present in this case. The weapon must meet both hurdles to be excused from 2A protection.
The problem is not the serial numbers per se. The problem is criminalization of possession of a gun without one [a principle now being extended to so-called ghost guns]. There is a long history of Americans making their own guns. I can certainly see obliteration of a serial number as a fact that demonstrates ill-intent. However, taken to its logical conclusion, can the federal government require every gun to have a serial no, even homemade ones? Dubious.
Note that the serial number is unnecessary to ensure that only law abiding citizens possess guns. A criminal records check solves that.
Push as you like, gun absolutists, while you still can. It won’t matter much after gun nuts pay the predictable price for aligning their political fortunes with the losing side of the culture war and the wrong side of history. I expect your eventual pleas for “reasonable gun laws” and “fairness” from the culture war’s victors will be ignored, largely consequent to your current boorish conduct.
I hope a right to possess a reasonable firearm for self-defense in the home survives the mainstream’s backlash.
So long as that inevitable “backlash” is accomplished via legal (read: Constitutional) means, I don’t have a problem with it.
More evidence of how stupid Bruen is.
I suspect this won’t stand. If it makes it to the Supreme Court, they’ll relish the opportunity to issue a meaningless pro-gun-rights decision that makes them look even-handed, while also giving them an opportunity to defend Bruen as being less ridiculous than even this judge obviously thinks it is.
Doesn’t that depend on whether the issue reaches the Court before or after enlargement of the Court?
The opinion reads to me like something a whiney teenager might say – “I’m doing it but only because you say I have to.” But at least they’re doing it so I suppose that’s progress.
re: the rebuttal, I agree that the serial number burden is comparatively modest but I would challenge the assumptions both in the opinion and the rebuttal that the government interest has been established. Serial numbers solve crimes in Hollywood. I’m a lot more skeptical that they work in real cases. Serial numbers are useful for solving thefts not so much for gun violence crimes.
Consider the scenarios:
– A shoots B and is caught while still in possession of the gun. Serial number not necessary.
– Someone shoots B and throws the gun away. Serial number identifies A as the buyer but A just claims it was lost, stolen or misidentified. SN is at best weak circumstantial evidence.
– Someone shoots B but weapon never found. Sales records could be used to hint that A once owned a weapon capable of firing a round of the same caliber but that’s even weaker circumstantial evidence and the SN doesn’t add to the record.
Why would anyone erase a serial number if not to assist in a crime?
The law does not merely prohibit the complete erasure of the serial number but also any alteration. Further, the criminal act is not merely the erasure but the mere possession after someone else did the alteration. So that would criminalize:
– polishing or painting over it just because you think a smooth surface looks better.
– welding, soldering or making other repairs at or near the SN.
– modifications (again, at or near the SN) to make the part fit with another component, add-on device or other configuration not envisioned by the manufacturer (the gunsmith’s equivalent of dropping a beefed-up transmission into your car).
– as an act of civil disobedience to frustrate what you believe to be immoral registration laws.
– an accident.
– normal wear and tear (again, the knowing part is only that the SN has been damaged, not that you intentionally damaged it).
– because you want to pass your historical weapon off as even older than it is (which would be unethical but is not a crime until you attempt to defraud someone by selling it).
There are probably lots of other reasons. The more relevant point is that most guns used by criminals don’t have the serial numbers filed off because, except in Hollywood, the SN doesn’t really help the police. So no matter how minimal the societal cost, there’s no benefit.
Whether or not the 2nd should protect the possession of guns with serial numbers the reasoning applied here is extremely unconvincing and would be absurd if applied in 1st ammendment law. Basically, the reasoning is that it’s in some sense a restriction on guns but since it’s not of the same form as the restrictions present at incorp/ratification it’s (absent special circumstances) presumptively invalid regardless of the extent of the burden, or whether it’s solving a problem of the sort of scale the founders/incorporates would have seen as justifying this regulation of they’d faced it.
Apply that to the first ammendment. We know from plenty of cases (Cohen amoung others) that the 1st protects the form of an expression as well as content. The government couldn’t say: it’s ok to talk about women’s periods or the vietnam dead but not using red ink because it’s too shocking.
So if the government limits the kind of ink or paper you can express yourself with it substantively implicates the 1st ammendment. The framers didn’t have a national paper currency and the ratifiers weren’t using special ink so there is no history of regulating the sale/use of the exact formulation of ink and paper used for us currency. Therefore, any law which attempts to stop xerox from making a my first counterfeiting kit with exact duplicates of the ink, paper and press is unconstitutional. Ohh and since anon speech is protected they have a right to make anon sales.
I’m pretty much a 1st ammendment absolutist and that’s absurd. Ok, sure, ppl may have some kind of right to use things that kinda look like dollars in their art but surely we need to look at both the substantive burden created (miniscule) and the feasability of alternate solutions.
I’m open to thd idea that there is a substantive argument that serial numbers cause a real burden on the right but the idea it’s unconstitutional bc they weren’t required at the founding when the idea of serial numbers didn’t make sense is absurd. You have to look at how much restriction of the right was accepted to accomplish similar ends not the particular tech!
I am not following your argument at all. For one thing, currency counterfeiting was a problem at the time of the Founding and there are lots of precedents for anti-counterfeiting measures. Those precedents would fit quite well in the framework of this decision to defend new anti-counterfeiting measures designed to address new counterfeiting tactics. Note however that even under that justification the government can’t outlaw the possession of a particular type of ink just because it’s used to make money.
Isn’t this just like the mattress tag that’s illegal to remove? Once I buy the mattress, I can remove the tag or burn the mattress for all I care – it’s my property. Same/same with a gun, right? Or shouldn’t it be? The serial number is the mattress tag.
No, there’s no mattress tag-equivalent for Section 922(k).
“Given that guns with serial numbers are indeed, as the court pointed out, just as effective at self-defense as guns without, the serial number requirement seems to me to be a much lighter burden than the burden of objective, easy-to-comply-with licensing requirements, which the Court in Burden[sic] endorsed.”
Section 922(k) does more than just “interfere” with gun ownership; it coverts a legally purchased and possessed firearm into contraband–which can never be possessed or transferred legally ever again.
It probably should be the same as a mattress tag. But the way the law is written, it isn’t.
I wonder whether the government could come up with any laws from the applicable time periods criminalizing possession of a firearm based on barrel length. Seems like it might be time to consign U.S. v. Miller to the dustbin of history once and for all.
Clear evidence that gun-hating judges will always be gun-hating judges. We’ve seen what it looks like when jurisdictions like New York are dragged kicking and screaming back to the Constitution, well, this is what it looks like when a JUDGE kicks and screams! Consider the choice of words of this Clinton-appointee:
“Any modern regulation that does not comport with the historical understanding of the right is to be deemed unconstitutional, regardless of how desirable or important that regulation may be in our modern society.”
“While I recognize there is an argument, not made by the Government here, that firearms with an obliterated serial number are likely to be used in violent crime and therefore a prohibition on their possession is desirable, that argument is the exact type of means-end reasoning the Supreme Court has forbidden me from considering.”
This ruling is nothing more than a desperate plea for the gun-haters among us to double their efforts to pack the courts with like-minded activists, or at least bolster support for the next Democrat nominee for President in 2024.
We’re I paranoid I’d suspect rulings like this were deliberate attempts to misread Bruin in order to generate outrage at SCOTUS.
It’s almost a straw-man ruling.
“And though the serial number requirement isn’t directly “designed to ensure only that those bearing arms in the jurisdiction are, in fact, ‘law-abiding, responsible citizens,'” it is designed to deter and more effectively punish criminal misuse of guns by non-law-abiding people, which of course is even more clearly outside the Second Amendment than is possession by such people.”
See, I’ve never had much issue with serial numbers before all those gun owner database leaks. What stops a person of engraving my, let’s say, 9 mm luger serial number(found in leaked database) on his firearm and then commiting a crime?
“the requirement that a serial number not be removed was a minimal burden on lawful gun owners compared to the value serial numbers provide to society.”
I was wondering when this was going to show up. It is the same rationalization that was given by the USSC to justify DUI checkpoints.
It sounds an awful lot like saying you can buy a chemical precursor to cocaine, so, if you then run a chemical reaction which converts it into actual cocaine, then you can possess it freely, as much as you like, since you didn’t violate any law by buying the precursor.
I just gave you an example of how the 1st amendment is taken more seriously than the 2nd .
You want more examples? You can buy a printer outside your home state. Without a background check. No limit on paper or ink capacity.
This is NOT because you can’t do damage with a printer. Lenin sure proved that theory wrong. It’s because using printers is a constitutional right, full blown, taken seriously by the courts.
Which means you can’t infringe it on the basis of hypothetical harms or pre-crime. You have to wait until somebody actually forges currency or delivers a ransom note.
Someday I hope the 2nd amendment, indeed all our constitutional rights, will get that level of respect.
No, it makes it what it always has been, an unalienable right.
That is all.
At some point, both come to the hands of a consumer. At that point, whether consumed or not, the market value of the good diminishes. Then I would say it is no longer in commerce.
Firearms differ in that, if properly preserved, especially if they are never used as intended, they increase in value over time as collectibles. Few of them clear that hurdle.
Worst decision ever. Not to mention, one has no protected right to keep and bear bushels of wheat.
Since everything is bought and sold, that means everything is subject to federal regulation. The concept of a limited federal government just went out the window. Actually, it went out the window about 90 years ago.
They are! But amendments supecede the body of the Constitution.
It’s like trying to regulate speech because of interstate commerce, in spite of “congress shall pass no law…”
Sure, but that’s not precedent for the government being able to mandate them.
As a historical matter, there’s not a lot of gun control today that can clear the twin burdens of historical precedent, on the one hand, and that precedent not being Jim Crow, on the other.
Bored, The first break is in coming it to the states to regulate. It seems okay to me that a state regulates guns in some minimal way but even something minimal is magnified when armed FBI agents are there to check on you.
I think that was one of Beto O’Rourke’s stupidest mistakes, to align his gun program with federal muscle. I had a friend who was a federal seizure agent and he thought O’Rourke’s ideas utterly stupid. “Hi, Mobster ganglord, I am here to take all your guns, mind if the 10 or us come in? — or should I come back wth an armed National Guard unit? “
“I just gave you an example”
Well, no you didn’t. You asserted it wouldn’t be permissible to require printers to add those dots, but you didn’t prove or even support that with anything. I doubt that would be struck down under the 1A.
It’s no coincidence Amendments 1 and 2 are the first thing tyrants attack. But there’s a meme for the second. It’s an anachronism!
Except it isn’t. Nevermind Ukraine screamed for weapons, including small arms for the common man for defense. And popular Indian movie RRR had as a backdrop getting masses of guns into the hands of Indians so they could resist the British, who had made it illegal for them to have…so they could not resist as well.
Huh? No, I very carefully did NOT assert that it wouldn’t be permissible to require printers to add those dots. In fact, I specifically said that it could have been done as a regulation.
I asserted that it wouldn’t be permissible to require you to keep your yellow ink topped off, or refrain from removing/obscuring those dots.
It was a stupid program to begin with. Like Texans are going to be happier about being disarmed at gun point so long as you promise it will be Texas Rangers going door to door, rather than the Texas National Guard.
As a historical matter, there is no purported history in Bruen that isn’t bunk.
Does the government of California deny its citizens guns with normal sized magazines on the belief that if they bought them they’d go out and commit crimes that instant?
I think you’re maybe confusing “imminent” and “purely hypothetical”.
Yes, they sure are. That’s why people get concerned when their supposedly democratic government starts acting like a dictator.
Well it shouldn’t be too hard then to give us some specific examples to change our minds.