The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
Yale Law School, Judge Ho, Neutrals, and Secondary Boycotts
Even when there's good reason to criticize universities, we should keep the students out of our battles.
I've been following with great interest the public discussion of Fifth Circuit Judge James Ho's speech on "Restoring America by Resisting Cancel Culture," and had a chance to read a draft of it. My interest both from the importance of the underlying issue and from my having known Judge Ho for over 25 years, indeed since before he went to law school (he was working for a California State Senator at the time).
I've also much appreciated Judge Ho's perspective on free speech issues, for instance in Oliver v. Arnold (5th Cir. 2021), where he wrote in support of the First Amendment rights of a high school student who objected to a requirement that she "transcribe the Pledge of Allegiance and listen to the Bruce Springsteen song 'Born in the U.S.A,'" and in Villareal v. Laredo (5th Cir. 2022), where he wrote in support of the First Amendment rights of journalists to ask questions of the police (even about confidential matters). I think Judge Ho is seriously concerned about free speech for everyone, left or right, and objects to Yale Law School's practices because of this concern. Even if I hadn't known him or his work, I would still want to focus on the merits of his proposal rather on any supposed ulterior motivation. But given my respect for him, I especially want to focus on the proposal's substance.
And while I found myself agreeing with much of Judge Ho's substantive diagnosis of the problem, I differ on the solution, and in particular on the suggestion that drew the most attention—that judges boycott law clerks who go to Yale Law School until that school does more to protect free speech, and to prevent disruptions of unorthodox speakers. (I appreciate that the proposal would only start with students who go to law school starting Fall 2023, so they are on notice of the possible boycott, but for reasons I note below, I don't think this justifies the proposal.)
[A.] First, a few words on the problem that Judge Ho is trying to solve: I agree that Yale Law School has done too little to protect free speech there, and indeed has at times affirmatively undermined it. I agree that this makes Yale less effective at training lawyers, and, precisely because of its prominence, sets a bad example for other law schools.
I also share Judge Ho's sense that many students and lawyers are finding themselves facing ideological discrimination based on their beliefs and statements, including ones that are very much part of mainstream discourse. That too is bad for our legal system, bad for democracy, and bad for our culture of free speech.
And I agree that judges are entitled to choose whom to hire, and that they indeed often prefer some law schools over others for many reasons that are often only weakly correlated to the school's relative academic quality. (Yale students may well have been the beneficiary of such preferences far more often than they have been handicapped by such preferences.)
Indeed, I think that judges are even entitled, if they so choose, to hire clerks based in part on the clerks' ideological views, though I do not see Judge Ho's proposal as calling for that. Clerkships are the unusual sort of job for which ideological compatibility as to legal matters (e.g., originalism vs. living constitutionalism, textualism vs. purposivism, the interpretation of various controversial constitutional and statutory provisions, and the like) should generally be seen as a legitimate hiring criterion, cf. Elrod v. Burns and Branti v. Finkel. To my knowledge, many judges, both liberals and conservatives, have considered ideological compatibility in hiring clerks, though many others, both liberals and conservatives, have generally not considered it.
[B.] But here's the heart of my disagreement, not as a matter of legal command but as a matter of what one might loosely call the ethics of American freedom and democracy: My view is that we shouldn't threaten innocent neutrals as a means of influencing the culpable.
Future Yale law students aren't the ones who set Yale policy. They may disagree with that policy, or they may not know enough about the subject to have a view. Even if they go to Yale knowing about Yale policy (and about the boycott), they shouldn't be held responsible for what Yale does, and they shouldn't be retaliated against as a means of trying to pressure Yale to change. Such "secondary boycotts," as labor law refers to them in a somewhat different context, are both unfair to the "neutral[s]" that are being boycotted, and likely to "widen[] … strife." (I'm not claiming here that there's anything illegal about the proposed boycott of Yale graduates, but only that some of the reasons labor law disapproves of secondary boycotts also carry over to this situation.)
[1.] Let me offer an analogy. As I understand it, BYU apparently forbids same-sex sexual or even romantic behavior by its students. (The precise rule changed recently, but it appears that it still forbids same-sex romantic relationships even if they do not include sexual conduct.) Let's say that some judges or law firms organized a boycott of all BYU law graduates—or for that matter all BYU graduates, including those who went to BYU for undergrad—on the theory that this may help pressure BYU to change its policy. Assume that such a boycott would be sincerely motivated by opposition to anti-gay policies generally (the boycotters would gladly add other universities if it were publicly known that they have similar policies), not to Mormons as a religious group.
My reaction would be: Keep the BYU students out of it. If you want to refuse to give talks at BYU because of its policies, or to stop giving money to it, fine. But students should be able to choose the educational institution that's best for them (based on a variety of factors, including proximity to family, financial aid, curriculum, educational quality, and more) without becoming targeted for boycotts.
Maybe the students agree with this particular policy of BYU's. Maybe they disagree. Maybe they're unsure. Maybe they just haven't thought about it. But they shouldn't be sucked up into this fight, however important the goal of the boycott might be. They should be free to sit it out as neutrals. Indeed, retaliating against neutrals (or insisting that no-one is a neutral in such matters) is bad for the very values of tolerance, open-mindedness, and freedom that Judge Ho and I and many others care about.
[2.] Or say that some judges or law firms try to influence states' policies on abortion by boycotting all graduates of universities in states that ban or sharply restrict abortion. To be sure, this is less likely to be effective, because the universities would have less effect on the state's policies, but who knows? Maybe the many parents of state university students and graduates would be animated by this to pressure the legislature, or to vote for a pro-abortion-rights ballot measure.
But here too, my reaction would be: Keep the students out of it. Boycott (say) Texas if you wish, but don't boycott individual Texans (or temporary Texans).
[C.] And this is also related to another familiar principle: rejecting guilt by association. We may refuse to hire people do various bad things, but we shouldn't refuse to hire people who are friends with those people, or who belong to the same groups as those people.
Maybe boycotting all known close friends of, say, people who disrupt law school events (or who block abortion clinic entrances or riot at federal courthouses or capital buildings or police stations or what have you) might further discourage such misbehavior: Even people who don't mind the prospect of losing job opportunities, which they might not have wanted in the first place, might be deterred by the possibility of damaging their friends' careers. But that's just not a boycott we should engage in, I think.
Again, boycott the disrupters, not the disrupters' friends. And if being friends with a person who behaves badly shouldn't lead to one's being boycotted, attending an educational institution that behaves badly shouldn't, either.
[D.] Now so far this has focused on ethical judgment, but my argument is also pragmatic. My conjecture is that these sorts of secondary boycotts are especially likely to lead to retaliation and even escalation: a mouth full of teeth for a tooth.
What one might call primary or direct boycotts—we won't hire you because of what you said or did—are common enough, and often harmful enough, when the basis for the boycott is improper. But my sense is that, at least so far, the secondary boycotts are relatively rare.
I expect that, when some are publicly urged by people who are seen as one place on the ideological spectrum (regardless of their deeper motivations), lots of others will arise from the opposite place, and will become much harder to fight once the precedent has been set. And if I'm right, then this pragmatic consideration has its own ethical dimension.
As I understand the Yale boycott proposal, a major justification for it is that this is a dire measure for dire times—not something Judge Ho is at all eager to do, but the only way he can see of solving the problem. Such pragmatic concerns can sometimes justify what would otherwise be behavior that would one prefer to avoid on ethical grounds. (One classic example is retaliatory tariffs, which even some supporters of free trade sometimes back because they are seen as the only effective means of getting the other side's initial tariff repealed.) But if I'm right that such boycotts are likely to lead not to mutual disarmament, but to retaliation and escalation, then their ethical problem is only compounded.
[E.] Now let me reply to a few possible responses.
[1.] The speech suggests that,
Suppose a law school discriminates on the basis of race. Could a judge publicly refuse to hire from that school, in hopes of spurring change? Surely a judge could do so. And if so, why can a judge stand up for color blindness, but not freedom of speech?
As my BYU example involving sexual orientation suggests, I think we ought to eschew boycotts of neutral students even in that example. Of course, it's easy today to condemn discrimination by law schools against, say, black students, but of course that principle is so well-settled today that such boycotts are unlikely to be necessary: Law schools have for nearly 60 years been effectively legally forbidden from engaging in such discrimination, and the remedy for the discrimination is likely legal action rather than boycott. But in 1962, should employers have boycotted job applicants who had graduated from colleges that had engaged in race discrimination? There too it seems to me that such an approach would have been unfair to the many students who were just making the best of a difficult situation for them, and would have been more destructive than constructive.
And even if one might say that race discrimination in 1962 by law schools was so heinous that it would ethically justify such a secondary boycott, consider again the process of analogy and escalation: This example of a response to Jim Crow is being used as an analogy to pressure Yale Law School to suppress behavior that I agree is harmful, but not nearly as harmful as race discrimination was in 1962. Once we start down the path, and travel from 1962 race discrimination to 2022 Yale, what reason is there to think that things will stop anywhere short of the BYU and abortion examples I gave—or stop even there, once they get there?
[2.] The speech also describe the proposal as "the exact opposite of what Yale is doing. Cancel culture is about excluding people. I want institutions of higher learning to include people." But of course the hypothetical boycotters of BYU graduates might say the same: Their exclusion of BYU students would merely be a means towards the end of getting BYU to be more inclusive (there, of gay and lesbian students).
Likewise, even the hypothetical boycotters of graduates from states that ban abortion might argue that their goal is to have those states be more inclusive of women who seek abortions. But I don't think that the broader end of inclusion justifies retaliating against students who are just trying to get the best education for themselves.
[3.] Of course, some might also argue that Yale Law School's policies are so bad that they produce a poor education, or that they are particularly likely to produce a poor education for the sorts of clerks that some judges may want to hire (e.g., clerks that have at least learned seriously about conservative legal perspectives, whether or not they share them). And I agree that the Yale policies that are being criticized do indeed undermine the quality of a Yale education. (Likewise, one can argue that BYU policies about same-sex romantic behavior undermine the quality of the education for other students, who will learn fewer and less varied perspectives on life from their classmates because of those policies.)
But the quality of an education, and the quality of a graduate as a prospective law clerk to a particular judge, is a matter that turns on many factors. The correlation between Yale's practices and graduate quality (or even graduate knowledge of conservative ideas) strikes me as likely to be very weak, and certainly not strong enough to justify a categorical "no Yale" rule, especially given the costs of the rule that I discuss above.
[4.] Another response, which I noted above, is that something needs to be done, and that there aren't any really viable alternatives. But before we take that view as to behavior that we would have normally avoided (or so I believe) for ethical reasons, we should be careful to make sure that, (a) there really aren't viable alternatives, and (b) this option will do more good than harm.
Yet there are alternatives, I think. There is public criticism, which Yale has been getting a lot of, from left, right, and center. There is reason to think this has affected Yale in some measure, and will continue to do so if the criticism is sustained. Moreover, we've already heard of Harvard using Yale's behavior to poach those top law school applicants who got into both Harvard and Yale: Apparently the "the Harvard Law School admissions office is working with the HLS FedSoc chapter to identify conservative applicants, and persuade them to choose Harvard over Yale."
And, as I've noted above, I think such a proposed secondary boycott is likely to create retaliation and escalation that would end up only exacerbating the problem. True, some ends do sometimes justify some means. But they don't justify means that actually do more to undermine the ends than to advance them.
[5.] Finally, I should acknowledge that many employers may already look down on BYU applicants, or on applicants who went to religious colleges more broadly, or on applicants from red states that have policies that the employers may dislike, or on many other applicants. There is likely little we can practically do about that (or for that matter about some employers unduly preferring applicants from schools in places they like, or from schools with ideologies they like). But turning this unspoken reality into something that is overt, publicly stated policy—policy that others are urged to adopt—strikes me as a major escalation.
[* * *]
All this brings to my mind Jefferson's first inaugural address, which followed an extraordinarily bitter election and indeed a period of overt suppression of dissent under the Sedition Act of 1798, but which aimed to hold out an olive branch to the losing side:
Let us, then, fellow-citizens, unite with one heart and one mind. Let us restore to social intercourse that harmony and affection without which liberty and even life itself are but dreary things. And let us reflect that, having banished from our land that religious intolerance under which mankind so long bled and suffered, we have yet gained little if we countenance a political intolerance as despotic, as wicked, and capable of as bitter and bloody persecutions.
Here too, as at the beginning, I expect that Judge Ho, knowing him as I do, agrees: Both he and I long for a return to a more harmonious, more affectionate political landscape, in the country as a whole, in our shared profession, and in particular in American law schools.
The question is: How do we get there? And I think that secondary boycotts will only push us further from our goal.
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a requirement that she "transcribe the Pledge of Allegiance and listen to the Bruce Springsteen song 'Born in the U.S.A,'"
O look, another rightwinger who thinks Born in the USA is a nationalistic song.
And your support for that inference? The judge found that the First Amendment was violated by forcing a student to transcribe that song, along with the PoA. How does that make the song nationalistic?
The verse in the song is bitter and anti-American but the chorus "Born in the USA" was successfully used by Reagan as a theme song. Lots of lefty butt-hurt about it still after 40 years.
One wonders whether Reagan listened to the lyrics. Sort of like the blue jean marketer who used ¨Fortunate Son¨ as an advertising jingle.
"One wonders whether Reagan listened to the lyrics."
Its a Springsteen song, only the chorus is intelligible. Rest is "mumble, mumble, mumble".
So true!
I don’t think it’s “butt-hurt” to point out that right-wingers don’t understand music or lyrics. More of a comment on the right’s lack of rudimentary observational and analytical skills.
Hardly just "right-wingers" - Obama used it in his campaign, as have a number of other left-wing politicians. NPR says a majority of people asked say it is a pro-American song.
Springsteen has publicly complained that everyone misunderstood the song, and say he has modified his performance of it several times to make its lyrics more obvious.
Of course, Springsteen also admitted he toned down the verse and pumped up the chorus to better market it to a more patriotic crowd, so maybe he shouldn't be complaining. Mixed messages, and all that:
I grew to hate literature classes because of the constant inference that there was only one right way to interpret literature. You seem to fit right in.
Perhaps the teacher was merely trying to get students to think about things instead of reflexively reacting. Perhaps the teacher was trying to use more recent study material.
You sure do have a reflexively reactionary attitude.
I’m all down for death of the offer, but for fucks sake…What is your pro-American interpretation of those lyrics?
When did you last take an English courses? We’ve been in a post-modern critique for decades. What the author meant doesn’t mean shit. It’s what you “feel” the author meant. And as long as as you can bullshit an answer well enough, you’re good.
It’s how we ended up with this perpetually offended swath of people. “I am offended by statues, words, syrup bottles, rice boxes, and any mention of a higher power. Oh, and any political deviation from my beliefs makes you a bigot.”
It doesn’t make a difference what your intent was. It’s how I choose to take it that matters.
That’s not what postmodernism is.
Not sure what that means. You're not denying that "La mort de l'auteur" was important to postmodern and post-structuralist literary criticism, are you?
Important? Sure. But the author is very much a part of postmodern literary analysis,
Also postmodern literary analysis has nothing to do with people being easily offended.
Evidence the teacher was a right winger, or thought that this was a nationalistic song?
Or are you referring to the judge?
Either way, dumb.
Really? That kind of dumb patriotism is pretty asymmetrical. And the function of that song being assigned is also pretty clear.
What nonsense are you trying to pull?
The federal judiciary has its own set of problems it's supposed to be solving, and those don't include supposed pedagogical problems at Yale.
But if judges truly believe that Yale's speech policies diminish its ability to provide a quality education, there's nothing wrong with excluding their graduates on that basis.
Who knew that EV's blog was a pointless waste of typing when his entire argument can be refuted by your simple statement?
I think you should start your own blog with these brilliant rebuttals.
Your suggestion isn't even relevant to the fine article, just a gratuitous insult. So I'll follow your sterling example.
Fuck off, slaver.
"Who knew that EV’s blog was a pointless waste of typing when his entire argument can be refuted by your simple statement?"
I haven't seen anyone make the case that these types of boycotts by federal employees are appropriate at all. Seems like a good place to start.
What's your objection, exactly? Are you arguing that a boycott like this, designed to use federal employment to influence a private school's pedagogy, can ever be appropriate?
Uh, tiny pianist, all your questions would be answered if only you were to read the article. Start with where EV says
Of course, some might also argue that Yale Law School's policies are so bad that they produce a poor education...
If you disagree with the points he makes, an interesting comment would engage with said points. Stating a random opinion that the article itself pre-emptively destroys just makes you look like a dummy.
My objection is this "But if judges truly believe that Yale’s speech policies diminish its ability to provide a quality education, there’s nothing wrong with excluding their graduates on that basis."
That is a conclusory statement which does nothing whatsoever to engage with anything EV wrote, and it provides nothing of value for anyone else to discuss.
Well, if you're dissatisfied, feel free to apply for a refund.
Or as I mentioned above, if your comments are going to be useless conclusions which contribute nothing, perhaps you should start your own blog.
They serve no purpose here.
Your advice is duly noted.
Fucking read the OP TiP, quit doubling down and do the work, it’s good!
Really? Neither you or Jason have had much to say about it, you're just making obnoxious comments about the comments.
He answers your concerns pretty early on. So not much else to say but read it so you dint look foolish again bringing up already addressed arguments,
Did you read the post? I got pretty far in before I decided I didn't need to read a detail-oriented analysis of something I didn't think Federal Judges should be doing writ large anyway, and, no, I don't think he does answer my concerns early on.
Yeah, we already know you didn't read it.
You evidently have no idea what the phrase "conclusory statement" might refer to. Perhaps you went to Yale and its process was no better then than it is now.
Anyway, the meaning is: An assertion for which no supporting evidence is offered. But the statement you quote is clearly an opinion about right and wrong, not a factual claim subject to evidentiary settlement. It's the starting point for a discussion, not a conclusion from anything and it does not pretend to be one.
"I haven’t seen anyone make the case that these types of boycotts by federal employees are appropriate at all. Seems like a good place to start."
You can't see what you don't look at. Start by reading Judge Ho's speech.
"You can’t see what you don’t look at. Start by reading Judge Ho’s speech."
Do you think he'd send me a copy?
"I should acknowledge that many employers may already look down on BYU applicants, or on applicants who went to religious colleges more broadly, or on applicants from red states"
Exactly why Ho is absolutely right to do this. You need to fight fire with fire.
But Ho's action wouldn't stop these employers from continuing to look down on BYU applicants. It just subjects more applicants to unfair ideological discrimination.
Is it wrong to look down at a bigoted institution, or at someone who chooses to enroll and stay at a bigoted institution?
Bigots apparently think not.
Carry on, clinger.
I actually really like this bit of idiocy from dumbass Bob. He takes Volokh’s speculation — I personally have not heard about throngs of unemployed religious school grads — and uses it to declare “fair’s fair” as part of his cheering Judge Ho’s boycott of hiring conservative law grads from Yale.
"throngs of unemployed religious school grads"
He didn't say they were unemployed, only that there were employers who wouldn't hire them.
http://www.trolp.org/blog/2022/10/11/agreeing-to-disagree-restoring-america-by-resisting-cancel-culture
So under your view are most of the Russian sanctions illigitimate from a moral perspective? A lot of those target people with intimate relationships with Putin or just folks who benefit from the general russian political regime. How are those oligarchs any different from Yale students who benefit from their credentials, but have no realistic way to affect policy changes?
In a war you shoot enemy soldiers even if they're conscripts and not volunteers.
We're well past the point where EV's concerns about "escalation" are anything but risible.
That's not Judge Ho's position, but it is mine.
Re: BYU hypothetical. It really comes down to how sincerely held the beliefs are, right? I can see BYU grad accepting that the persecution is as promised by God. I can also see Yale folding like a cheap suit, since prestige is their mammon, and loss of it a crisis.
If students had no choice in their school, if they were drafted like sportsball players or conscripted soldiers, yes -- don't blame the students for what they cannot control.
But students going to top law schools are presumably 100% in charge of where they study. They have the brains and money to go anywhere; they chose YLS for what it represents. Yes, do boycott them, hold them accountable for their choice.
"they chose YLS for what it represents"
Possibly. Other factors might be that it was close to home, so their spouse doesn't have to move. Or it offered better financial aid, etc, etc, etc.
Suppose Dave goes to Yale, and in his time there he is outspoken in favor of free speech, at considerable personal cost. Fred goes to Harvard, where he works hard to create the kind of cancel culture people are objecting to at Yale. Is it wise for Judge Ho to look at Fred's resume, while putting Dave's in the trash unread?
Better financial aid is a stretch. If YLS lives up to its reputation as the best law school in the country, that implies that every YLS student would be a fine catch at every other law school and get just as good financial aid, especially as the others probably cost less.
There are only two reasons for wanting a local law school: room and board cost, and reluctance to be far from home. No one who goes to Yale need worry about cost, and anyone who wants to stay near home is a good candidate for the nation's premier law school.
"If YLS lives up to its reputation as the best law school in the country, that implies that every YLS student would be a fine catch at every other law school and get just as good financial aid, especially as the others probably cost less."
Is it? As between Harvard and Yale Law Schools, I think most candidates would pick Harvard.
And a few others, like Chicago, Stanford and Columbia are close behind Yale.
There does appear to be an overrepresentation among both the Supreme Court justices and clerks from Harvard and Yale. So if that is your goal, then I understand why you would want one of those two.
I thought lawyers read the fine print.
"If YLS lives up to its reputation"
I am questioning that "reputation."
As between Harvard and Yale Law Schools, I think most candidates would pick Harvard.
You've obviously never been to Cambridge.
That's an awful lot of words for a position that, at best, would rank as one of many possible potential, additional, supporting points in Jack Goldsmith's much more effective counter to Judge Ho's action.
If only Yale could cast its practices about campus speech as a matter of faith... the 5th Circuit, Judge Ho, and (the other) half of this commentariat would be stampeding to congratulate Yale's brave stand for religious liberty.
But then I doubt that Yale would be effective in promoting itself as one of the leading law schools in the country. At least in America today, "we're a religious university and we restrict student speech that's contrary to our religion" tends to lead people to think that you're unlikely to be a really first-rate educational program -- even when the people acknowledge and respect your right to shape your religious educational community that way.
That’s a lot words, EV, to say “but they don’t.” Although I believe YLS feels it’s just as much a moral imperative as a religious mandate to hinder “dangerous speech.” Religious schools are just open about it.
I don’t know how I fell yet on Judge Ho’s boycott. I have a problem with all the analogies used to justify opposition. BYU is not Yale. As others have pointed out, if you go to YLS, you can go anywhere.
"If only Yale could cast its practices about campus speech as a matter of faith… "
Why can't it? Does the Church of Woke have to have a Pope to be recognized as the religion it is?
But I'm not at all sure that Ho and Volokh would in that case do what you say they would do.
If I want to avoid the equivalent of a boycott I need to learn to distinguish the occasional tolerant Yale student from the rest. Is that really worth my effort? Perhaps I'm coming at this from a different angle. Too many students at several high ranked and formerly respected institutions are intolerant and strike me as hard to work with. I am not asking you to avoid them. I am avoiding them out of my own self-interest. Or I would be avoiding them if I had any job openings.
There are situations where the law requires me to make that effort, but school choice is not one of them. Not concerning a school known for admitting rich white students. Could I get away with boycotting a historically black college? What about choosing not to recruit from one but not circular filing resumes?
If that's your concern, you need to boycott hiring anyone under the age of 25 (Generation Ass).
Absolutely not. The students are the ones driving all these problems.
No, it is the administration that is afraid to stand up to the students. If the policy was, "you shut down a speaker, you are expelled from law school," and it was carried through, the problem would go away.
The students are the narrow minded fascist thugs, the administrators are just cowardly. Both are at fault but the students are the instigators.
In the same way that a 3 year old having a temper tantrum, and disturbing an entire store full of shoppers, is the instigator, while his mother or father looks on helplessly. I put the blame on the parent for being a squish.
It was the students that first made a fuss about the Trap House invite, but would Coulter have cared if the admin thugs hadn't threatened him?
I agree with Judge Ho but would expand the boycott to include any law grad who claims to be conservative. Over the past six years we’ve seen a parade of conservative legal “scholars,” profs, and alleged attorneys like Giuliani, Ellis, Powell, Clark, Dersh, Corcoran, et al. ad vomitum, pretty much do nothing except embarrass themselves, their alma maters, and the legal profession. Weeping about cancel culture and wokeness aside, conservative legal professionals are incompetent boobs, at best, by all available evidence. Uh, present company excluded. I guess.
You don't have even a rudimentary understanding of statistics and sampling, do you?
Prob & Stat was the concentration for my undergraduate math degree, but I see in that no reason to disagree about any root or branch of The Stupid and Corrupt Party. (Although... I don't recognize all the names. but of course Dersh claims to vote for the Evil and Corrupt one.)
I'm thinking that the second means in that sentence should actually be ends.
Whoops, thanks, fixed!
Innocent neutrals are directly hurt by policies that enable and support extreme fringe activists using their hecklers' veto over wrongthink.
It’s long past time we started treating that sort of intentionally disruptive behavior as disqualifying. Especially when it is repeated in the face of clear warnings. And institutions that enable it and support it should eventually become unwelcome to participate in civil affairs.
Judge Ho shouldn’t have to use the remedy he chose to use. Yale and everyone else should know better than to enable and support the hecklers. But they don’t. And there are enough woke zealots in enough powerful roles to make it risky to stand up to even the worst behavior. Judge Ho saw something he could do and he did it. Others should try thinking about what else can be done instead of criticizing the imperfections in what Judge Ho is trying.
Anyone who invites similar speakers this year should setup extensive surveillance and traps to clearly identify everyone disrupting the event. Any student caught doing it once should be warned and then swiftly expelled if caught doing it again.
The reason Yale didn't expel the disrupters was not that they couldn't identify them. But a list might help warn others. Maybe a wiki?
So many in here loving them some collective guilt, if it could own some libs in the process.
Ho proposes delaying his remedy precisely to avoid punishing the not guilty. If he gets traction then those affected will have known that by joining Yale Law's student body that they are picking a side. Saying you joined the enemy army for the benefits and not ideology isn't innocence.
Would Prof Volokh extend his analogy of secondary boycotts to other situations, such as the California government banning state-funded travel to 22 other states, or the MLB pulling the All Star game from Atlanta? Would those not also be less-than-optimal policies?
Why would you think he wouldn't?
TennLion: Oh, I don't like them, either. I'm focusing on this because (1) it's in one of my professions (law), (2) it has to do with another of my professions (education), and (3) it involves retaliation against individuals, which strikes me as even more troubling than retaliation against businesses. But I agree that much of what I say can also be applied to the boycotts you describe.
Students at a law school are basically customers purchasing credentials. It is in the nature of the product that they are buying that they hope that it will clothe them in a rosy glow and get third parties to look favorably upon them.
If some third parties consider that instead of a rosy glow, the product they're buying imparts a sewage-like stench, then is it not kinder to mention that to prospective students of the sewage farms in advance, rather than holding off until they have been dipped in it ?
So "we shouldn't threaten innocent neutrals as a means of influencing the culpable" is a somewhat eccentric framing. What we're really talking about is warning people against buying goods bought with CCP slave labor. If you buy, you buy the reputational risk too.
Given that Judge Ho is a member of the Federal Judiciary is there a concern that in engaging on a boycott based on Free Speech that he himself is violating the 1st Amendment?
This is a bigot-friendly blog. Any discussion of BYU or a similar conservative, nonsense-teaching institution will be handled with kid gloves, omitting the term "bigotry" and striving, to the degree possible, to avoid discussing the bigotry.
(Instead, one can expect a reflexive turn toward castigating a strong, mainstream, liberal-libertarian institution for being insufficiently inhospitable to bigots and insurrectionists for this blog's taste.)
That's the Volokh Conspiracy way.
I love how you put the BYU law school on par with Yale. You literally just stated they should be treated the same by making the poor analogy. Fool—as always.
Brigham Young University is a private university sponsored by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and it seems to me perfectly appropriate that it hire only individuals whose views and advocacy are not incomputable with LDS doctrines. And if Yale wants to restrict its hires to fully paid-up members of the Church of Woke (has it in fact remained immune from the craze of requiring hires to declare how their work has advanced anti-racism?) then that is between it and its donors, IMHO.
You also put the BYU law school on par with Yale. Nice job of missing the entire point. Not to mention the whataboutism of using comparisons of Yale and BYU. Maybe EV should have addressed Podunk U Law School’s policies when discussing the standards of Yale?
This is about Yale’s open hostility in favor of groupthink and judges’ reaction to it. You can argue about the judges’ reactions. It’s just dumb to argue “what if it was Podunk U.” Nice job!!