The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
Court Strikes Down Ban on Gun Acquisition by People Under Felony Indictment
An indictment for a crime, the court stresses, is very different from a conviction of the crime.
From yesterday's U.S. v. Quiroz, Judge David Counts (W.D. Tex.), discussing 18 U.S.C. § 922(n); part of the argument had to do with the lack of historical precedents for the law, but I thought readers would especially interested in this passage:
This Court is skeptical that the Government here, or in any other court, could defend § 922(n)'s constitutionality. Not only does the historical record lack the clear evidence needed to justify this regulation, § 922(n) evokes constitutional scrutiny in other ways….
The nature of grand jury proceedings [which are the ways that an indictment is obtained in the federal system -EV] is one such area that casts a shadow of constitutional doubt on § 922(n). Some feel that a grand jury could indict a [burrito] if asked to do so. [That appears to be a Texification of a New York Chief Judge's famous quote involving a "ham sandwich." -EV] The freewheeling nature of such proceedings stems from the Supreme Court holding that (1) the rules of evidence don't apply, (2) evidence barred by the Fourth Amendment's exclusionary rule may be heard, and (3) the grand jury may rely on evidence obtained in violation of a defendant's Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination. Simply put, "[a] grand jury investigation is not an adversarial process." …
The Government argues here that it has always been able "to impose substantial liberty restrictions on indicted defendants." To support that claim, the Government lists detentions or conditions of pretrial release as examples. Why the Government believes those examples support its argument is unclear; detention hearings have substantial procedural safeguards. For one thing, at a detention hearing, the defendant may request the presence of counsel; testify and present witnesses; proffer evidence; and cross-examine other witnesses appearing at the hearing. Grand jury proceedings have none of these safeguards. Detention hearings also occur at a different stage in the proceeding—often after indictment. And even if restricting a defendant's right to possess a firearm as a condition of pretrial release is constitutional—an issue which this Court does not consider here—that doesn't also make § 922(n)'s restrictions in the indictment stage constitutional.
{Whether this Nation has a history of disarming felons is arguably unclear—it certainly isn't clearly "longstanding." And what's even more unclear—and still unproven—is a historical justification for disarming those indicted, but not yet convicted, of any crime.}
The court also discusses an interesting historical means of dealing with people who hadn't been convicted of a crime, but who were viewed as potentially dangerous:
In another analogy closer to § 922(n), the Government argues that Massachusetts' mid-19th century surety laws outlined in Bruen are a historical example of restricting gun rights for those accused but not convicted of wrongdoing. The 1795 surety laws required a person "reasonably likely to 'breach the peace,' and who, standing accused, could not prove a special need for self-defense, to post a bond before publicly carrying a firearm." The Government also claims that those surety statutes burdened Second Amendment rights "more directly" than § 922(n)'s prohibitions. Yet this argument ignores the rest of Justice Thomas's analysis.
Justice Thomas dismisses the contention that surety laws were a severe restraint as having "little support in the historical record." Surety laws were "not meant as any degree of punishment." And there's little evidence that such laws were regularly enforced. Indeed, the handful of cases highlighted by Justice Thomas from Massachusetts and the District of Columbia all involved "black defendants who may have been targeted for selective or pretextual enforcement."
The Government also argues that the surety laws provide an imperfect but similar analogue to § 922(n). But not only do Massachusetts' mid-19th century surety laws fail to support the Government, they actively cut against the Government's assertions. In Bruen, Justice Thomas highlighted the "straightforward" historical method employed in Heller: "If earlier generations addressed [a general societal problem that has persisted since the 18th century], but did so through materially different means, that also could be evidence that a modern regulation is unconstitutional."
Much like § 922(n), Massachusetts' surety laws addressed the societal fear that those accused—like those under indictment—would "make an unlawful use of [their firearm]." Yet surety laws addressed that fear through means "materially different" than § 922(n). Rather than completely restrict the accused's constitutional right, surety laws permitted the accused to prove a special self-defense need. And if they couldn't, the accused needed only to post a money bond for no more than six months to keep their firearms.
In contrast, § 922(n) restricts a person's right to receive a firearm indefinitely after indictment by a grand jury—which is not an adversarial proceeding. And as the Government admits, an "indictee cannot overcome § 922(n)'s restriction by posting a bond." Thus, the existence of Massachusetts' surety laws—addressing a general societal problem through materially different means—serves only as more evidence that § 922(n) departs from this Nation's historical tradition of firearm regulation….
The government has already appealed; it will be interesting to see what the Fifth Circuit will do.
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
This seems like a particularly odd context for Judge Counts to rely on his policy disagreements with the choices reflected in the bill of rights.
Noscitur a sociis: I'm not sure I understand; can you elaborate?
As Bruen made clear, the Second Amendment makes many questions about the efficacy of gun restrictions irrelevant: the extent to which § 922(n) protects the public doesn't matter, the constitutional guarantee takes some policy options off the table.
But the Framers also decided that grand jury indictment should be the exclusive means of holding someone to answer for a serious crime, and they wrote it into the Fifth Amendment. Judge Counts might share the increasingly-popular view that they were wrong and there are better ways to do things, but so what? The constitution takes those options off the table.
IANAL
"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury..."
Are burglary and/or failing to appear punishable by the death penalty? (Yes, I also thought of taking a dig at Texas and its death penalty record) 🙂
Wouldn't this mean that unless you could be killed for it (or the equivalent where they don't kill folks) that you cant be "held to answer" for it if there's an indictment?
No? Why would it?
"Or otherwise infamous", so obviously it's not limited to capital crimes.
Kind of ambiguous: like high crimes and misdemeanors.
What did it mean in 1787?
Burglary was a capital crime in 1787 in every state. The first Congress made robbery on federal territory punishable by the death penalty.
So there's no doubt the framers would have considered it covered by the clause. However, it seems clear they wanted it left flexible for Congress and the courts to settle (as they did with many details, a principle of the founding that is often lost on originalists).
"Burglary was a capital crime in 1787 in every state."
This was, IIRC, the original distinction between felonies and misdemeanors; Whether you could potentially get the death penalty.
That's why felonies could lose you civil liberties, I believe; As capital crimes, "just" losing a civil liberty was a lesser punishment.
Without even addressing that the clause includes a whole other category of crimes than capital, that says that no one can be held to answer a capital crime without an indictment. It doesn't say that indictments can't be used for any other crimes, just that there's a special protection for the higher level crimes.
I don't see what one has to do with the other? The Fifth Amendment grand jury is a procedural right that requires a threshold action for prosecution. Where do you see in the Fifth Amendment that an indictment alone permits depriving someone of his rights?
The very same amendment provides that a person may not be "deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." DPL is not the same thing as a grand jury indictment. And barring someone from carrying a gun that would otherwise be lawful is certainly a deprivation of liberty.
If we analyze the "right to keep and bear arms" in the context of what was allowed at ratification, why would we do differently for "due process of law"?
The Fifth Amendment reflects the belief that, if an indictment is issued by a grand jury, you're not entitled to any additional process before being deprived of liberty and property through trial. You can be arrested and detained pending arraignment. You can be forced to give bail to secure your release, or detained with no chance for bail. Your property can be seized for forfeiture, even if you cannot otherwise afford a lawyer. And you have no right to ask anyone to reconsider the grand jury's findings or conclusions. Those deprivations—which actually can affect the outcome of your trial by hindering your ability to defend yourself!—seem at least as significant as saying you also can't buy any new guns until the case is over.
To be sure, many jurisdictions grant defendants additional protections. But however salutary those choices I have trouble seeing the constitutional implication of not granting them in a particular context.
But "deprived of your liberty" and "deprived of a right" aren't the same thing. The Court can make sure you don't skip town, but they can't take away your freedom of speech, or right to vote.
In particular, it's quite questionable to say you can't sell a gun to somebody who is, none the less, perfectly legally entitled to retain any guns they already own. How does that have a prayer of passing strict scrutiny?
But “deprived of your liberty” and “deprived of a right” aren’t the same thing. The Court can make sure you don’t skip town, but they can’t take away your freedom of speech, or right to vote.
Actually, the entire theory of incorporation of the Bill of Rights is based on the idea that your freedom of speech, etc., are “liberties” protected by the Due Process Clause of the 14th amendment against infringement by the states (at least, that’s what the Supremes said in Gitlow v. New York). (The right to vote is a little different. For the most part, the constitution leaves the contours of that right up to the states, so long as they don’t discriminate on forbidden grounds such as race, color, previous condition of servitude, sex, or age (at least for people 18 or older).)
But the "liberty" you can be deprived of prior to conviction is the liberty to travel. Not incidental liberties.
If I’m understanding you correctly, I think the judge addressed that in his opinion when he talked about the sufficiency of due process in the indictment process (when he’s talking about it being non-adversarial, etc), along with the due process that was historically completed before a person was deprived of their right to bear arms.
Edit: NM, EV just said this.
"The Fifth Amendment reflects the belief that, if an indictment is issued by a grand jury, you’re not entitled to any additional process before being deprived of liberty and property through trial."
Is this correct? IIUC they have to issue an arrest warrant, conduct bail hearings, etc.
I doubt that a law making it crime for someone under indictment to be present anywhere outside of a jail would be constitutional.
I guess, but under the current federal rules of criminal procedure, issuing an arrest warrant is required when an indictment is returned unless the prosecutor expressly asks otherwise.
That's true under the Bail Reform Act but I don't think it's constitutionally required. Under the Judiciary Act of 1789, for instance, granting bail in capital cases was completely up to the discretion of a circuit judge or Supreme Court justice, and I don't read it to grant a right to be heard on bail amounts or conditions in other cases.
As the post points out, that's not true. Yes, those particular disabilities can be imposed on an indicted person even before conviction, but you are entitled to additional process before (or immediately after, in some cases) those deprivations are imposed.
In the federal system, you are absolutely not entitled to be heard before an arrest warrant is issued or your assets are frozen. The Bail Reform Act gives you the right to be heard before you're detained for more than 3 days after your initial appearance (though the burden may be on you to establish that you can be released under any conditions) but I am unaware of any authority suggesting this is a constitutional requirement.
Well, Judge Counts isn't saying a grand jury indictment is ineffective as an indictment -- it starts the criminal process going, just as it always did. He's saying that it's insufficient as a basis for stripping someone of his Second Amendment rights; even if a felony *conviction* suffices, because of the extensive fact-finding that it involves, a felony *indictment* does not.
But in doing so, he's discounting the substantial ways in which an indictment—and just an indictment—can deprive someone of liberties they seem pretty substantial, either ignoring them or focusing on some additional protections Congress bestowed as a grant of legislative grace.
Likewise, I find his apparent disapproval of the Supreme Court's decision not to ahistorically extend ahistorically-derived criminal procedure and evidence rules to the grand jury context an odd match for his disapproval of felon weapons bans for being too recent.
None of which is to say that § 922(n) is constitutional, necessarily. But this part, and the part about racial discrimination, struck me as pretty unpersuasive.
Well how about the indicted's right to vote?
If we are going to start applying the disabilities of a felony conviction t the indicted let's take away their right to vote too.
So, Trump might not be able to vote for himself in 2024, even if he's still under indictment, but not yet found guilty.
Meh. Doesn't matter if nobody votes for Trump--he'll still claim victory and victimhood and provide a link to donate.
But in doing so, he’s discounting the substantial ways in which an indictment—and just an indictment—can deprive someone of liberties they seem pretty substantial,
But I don't think you have established this, either at the time of the found or today. Let's take your examples:
You can be arrested and detained pending arraignment.
That does not depend on a grand jury indictment, many people are arrested before indictment. You then need a bail hearing, where presumably you can challenge probable cause (as well as other bail considerations, like risk of flight.)
You can be forced to give bail to secure your release, or detained with no chance for bail.
Ditto. You need an adversary hearing for that.
Your property can be seized for forfeiture, even if you cannot otherwise afford a lawyer.
What is your authority that a mere indictment permits seizure of property? With no recourse to challenge the basis for the seizure at a hearing. I do not believe that is the law today nor at the Founding.
And you have no right to ask anyone to reconsider the grand jury’s findings or conclusions.
Of course you can, that is what a trial is. Which you are entitled to a speedy one.
(The statute says "under indicment," which I assume does not include someone who was indicted and then acquitted.)
Those deprivations—which actually can affect the outcome of your trial by hindering your ability to defend yourself!—seem at least as significant as saying you also can’t buy any new guns until the case is over.
I don't think you have established that a grand jury indictment alone permits any of these deprivations.
"The statute says “under indicment,” which I assume does not include someone who was indicted and then acquitted."
How about if they indict you, and then never bother prosecuting?
Does "innocent until proved guilty" have meaning anymore?
I believe it's considered to be another way of saying, "The process IS the punishment."
Then the indictment will be dismissed for violation of the speedy trial constitutional provision/statute.
Speedy trial; hahahahaha.
Then how would they be able to get anyone to agree to a plea?
LOL! Years later, maybe.
Litigated many speedy trial motions, have you?
"Your property can be seized for forfeiture, even if you cannot otherwise afford a lawyer.
What is your authority that a mere indictment permits seizure of property? With no recourse to challenge the basis for the seizure at a hearing. I do not believe that is the law today nor at the Founding."
(Civil) Forfeiture, notoriously, doesn't even require indictment, and inverts the burden of proof, placing it on the person being robbed by the police.
Incorrect: in the federal system, you can never make a pretrial challenge to a grand jury's finding of probable cause. (You can in some states, but only because the state constitution or a state statute or allows it: the Fifth Amendment doesn't require it.) The federal system currently allows you to have a detention review (although it may allocate the burden to you, depending on wha the grand jury indicted you for), but as I've said that's a congressional policy choice: at various times detention for sufficiently serious crimes has been mandatory.
It's most certainly the law today, see Kaley v. United States, 571 U.S. 320 (2014), and I see no reason to question Justice Kagan's conclusion that this was consistent with the original meaning.
Yes, of course these disabilities only apply through trial, just like the disability of § 922(n). I thought that was so obvious that it wasn't worth noting explicitly.
In the 18th century, would a grand jury indict a ham sandwich? Or a potato and turnip stew, if you want to be more historically accurate?
Scrapple!!!! (I wouldn't try it today but they loved it then...)
It's actually quite good, I make it occasionally. My mom, who grew up during the Great depression, would make it occasionally, so it's a fond childhood memory.
Mind, modern recipes tend to start with bulk pork sausage rather than a pig's head and random bits. And toss in a bit of unflavored gelatin in place of boiling pig hide to jelly.
Pioneer Brett. Guess your sausage didn't kill you.
I have gradually built up a resistance to food poisoning, in much the same way Wesley did with Iocane powder. 😉
Ever seen the Youtube channel Townsends? He makes lots of 18th and 18th Century dishes there. Plenty of yummy things to indict.
That an "earlier generation[s] addressed [a general societal problem that has persisted since the 18th century], but did so through materially different means, [that also] could be evidence that a modern regulation is unconstitutional" is significant both in the firearms debate and in the debate regarding national security generally.
I'm struck by the way in which contemporary controversies so closely parallel the controversies of long ago: the XYZ Affair (and related legislation) remains as relevant today as does Massachusetts' surety statutes.
With Bruen's practice of allegedly historical methods, and it's bizarre prescriptions with regard to the use of history, for the foreseeable future there will be no point to attempt sensible discussion of a role for history in court. Bruen has proclaimed that methods for the use of history will be arbitrary, structured with an eye to preferred results, and unsupportable by any historiographic standard. That leaves nothing substantive to talk about.
The public generally doesn't understand what "indicted" means, so when someone says that a person "indicted" of a violent crime should be barred from owning a firearm, it sounds reasonable. As this opinion shows, it isn't.
The law doesn't "say[] that a person “indicted” of a violent crime should be barred from owning a firearm".
"[a] grand jury investigation is not an adversarial process."
No, but an investigation should be an *investigative* process.
An investigation means a genuine inquiry to find the answer to a question - like was there a crime and who did it. By all means let the grand jury act informally when investigating such important questions.
But do most grand jury "investigations" really merit the name? Aren't they just the prosecutor laying out a (generally selective) case in favor of a preferred result, in the expectation that the grand jury will simply rubber-stamp the prosecutor's handiwork?
In most, but by no means all, cases a Grand Jury usually serves as a procedural rubber stamp with the Good Seal of Approval on it for a prosecutor.
Then it is as I feared.
Here's a good opportunity for civics education - let citizens know what a heavy responsibility it is to accuse someone of a crime, how you can't assume the prosecutor was competent or even honest, how you have the right to examine the entire case file, not just whatever dribs and drabs the prosecutor gives you.
I got a crazy idea here, if there is evidence that the accused is a substantial danger to any particular individual or the public why don't they just hold them without bail?
If limiting some defendants' access to firearms means the no longer unduly endanger the public, why needlessly imprison them before they've been convicted of a crime?
Well because limiting their legal access to firearms doesn't limit access to illegal firearms. Nor does it make any other form of violence more difficult either, knives, clubs, arson, etc.
If they are dangerous, they are dangerous, whether they can pass a background check or not.
Mass murders in the U.S. 2006-17 do not always involve firearms. https://www.gannett-cdn.com/GDContent/mass-killings/index.html#suspects
If they are dangerous with a gun, they are dangerous with a car, gasoline, a knife.
An edit button! Thank you. But 12 minutes would be better. Not everyone is posting tweet-like contributions.
Not everyone is posting tweet-like contributions.
That's part or your problem. Brevity is the soul of wit.
Yes, but the new comment history function does not appear to be fully operational yet.
Patience Grasshopper.
I disagree with Judge Counts - but only because of the breadth of his decision.
He should have narrowed his decision to the specific facts of the case.
(From the decision)
"On June 9, 2020, Jose Gomez Quiroz (“Defendant”) was indicted in a Texas state court for burglary, a second-degree felony.1 Defendant subsequently failed to appear for a hearing on the burglary charge and was indicted almost a year later for jumping bail/failing to appear, a third-degree felony. In late 2021, while both charges were pending, Defendant attempted to buy an M1911, Semi Auto .22 caliber firearm from a local firearms dealer. To obtain the weapon, Defendant denied he was under indictment for a felony when filling out the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives’ (“ATF”) Firearms Transaction
Record form (Form 4473). Because the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (“NICS”) returned a delayed response, Defendant waited seven days and then picked up the firearm on December 30, 2021. But less than a week later, the NICS informed ATF of Defendant’s illegal firearm purchase.
Defendant was federally charged in March 2022 with two counts: (Count 1) making a false statement during the purchase of a firearm under 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(6), and (Count 2) the illegal receipt of a firearm by a person under indictment under 18 U.S.C. § 922(n). A jury convicted him of both counts. One week after his conviction, Defendant moved to set aside the verdict pursuant to Rule 29 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure and for this
Court to reconsider his previous motion to dismiss because of the United States Supreme Court’s recent ruling in Bruen.
Defendant’s motion hinges on the constitutionality of § 922(n) because if the provision is unconstitutional, then Defendant’s false statement during the purchase of the firearm is immaterial. "
I don't understand the last sentence.
The law states:
(n) It shall be unlawful for any person who is under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm or ammunition or receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
He WAS under indictment at the time (for the burglary and then the bail jumping), and he falsified an official document saying he wasn't.
That should have been enough for the judge - IN THIS SPECIFIC INSTANCE - to rule against him.
It's not that complicated: You can't suffer legal consequences for a false statement that isn't material. If the issue he lied about became immaterial because it pertained to an unconstitutional aspect of the law, he can't be penalized for it.
That's the reasoning, anyway.
Correct. Otherwise, the government could just get around constitutional safeguards on the right by asking about irrelevant things on the 4473.
Was he even charged with lying on the form?
The articles I read suggested he wasn't - just with possession while under indictment.
If you click on the underlined words "U.S. v. Quiroz" in the first line of this post, you can read the opinion. On the second page, you will learn that
No, I think he's right on that part.
The statute, 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(6), makes it illegal to make a false statement "with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale" of a firearm.
If, in fact, the government cannot criminalize receiving a firearm while under indictment, then whether or not the guy was under indictment doesn't affect the legality of the sale, and so his obvious falsehood isn't material.
If the standard for gun liberty is to be, "A right to arms applies to every law-abiding gun owner," seems like willingness to arm also those indicted for infamous crimes is an uncritical exception. Maybe notice that indictment calls law-abidingness temporarily in question, and go back later to arm those found innocent?
So indictment ends your right to vote, free speech, freedom of assembly, freedom from unwarranted search and seizure?
I actually agree that a person who is a danger to others might be best disarmed, but this also argues for leaving him in jail until a speedy trial happens. (Not a year later like Jan. 6 defendants held until they plea-bargained their way out, or ax-wielders released without bail).
Yes. The U.S. v. Salerno standard for pretrial detention should apply for removing gun rights.
Why is that gun advocates will never address any issue without changing the subject to some lame not-really-an-analogy answer?
Also, in neither case can the question of future dangerousness be assessed reliably. What is wrong with policy reasoning based on facts which demonstrably correlate strongly with likelihood of criminal conviction? Among the population generally, who is more likely to turn out to be a criminal, the never-indicted, or the recently-indicted? By what multiples do you suppose the relative probabilities differ?
And why would you consider no bail for an only-potentially dangerous person, in lieu of temporarily denying a gun purchase? Denying bail is incomparably the greater deprivation. If your concern is an unjust imposition on a possibly-innocent person, how do you justify denying bail, instead of choosing a temporary gun-purchase ban which is trivial by comparison? There is really only one answer, which is that you are not arguing seriously.
"What is wrong with policy reasoning based on facts which demonstrably correlate strongly with likelihood of criminal conviction?"
You mean like being black?
Because we all know that indictments are notoriously easy to obtain. A jurist even made a sandwich aphorism about it.
Has anybody been arguing recently that this ban exceeds Congress' power to regulate interstate commerce? At least, the part on possessing a gun that has moved in interstate commerce. The prohibition on carrying a gun across state lines is distinguishable.
The Court hasn't yet gotten around to addressing the constitutionality of federal gun laws enacted during the period when they were pretending that the 2nd amendment didn't protect an individual right. A lot of federal gun laws should fall if they ever agree to look at them.
The Lautenberg amendment, for instance, shouldn't have a ghost of a chance of surviving review after Bruen, if we can get that review.
Lautenberg Amendment applies to misdemeanor domestic violence convictions because too many jurisdictions regarded domestic violence as "not that bad." It was a bad solution to a problem outside federal jurisdiction.
It's bad enough imposing a rights deprivation on the basis of a misdemeanor conviction, but the Lautenberg amendment reached back to convictions prior to its enactment, which was held not to be an ex post facto violation because it 'wasn't a punishment'.
Can you really say after Bruen that being deprived of your right to own guns isn't a punishment, now that it's officially recognized as a basic civil liberty?
Where’s your majority going to come from? In Voisine v. United States only Thomas was dubious on constitutional grounds.
It won't. Sotomayor will be too busy stuffing her face with burritos.
It's not going to come from anywhere, if I was unclear: I think the Court is largely going to refuse to look at the constitutionality of federal gun laws already on the books, and will only require the states to obey the 2nd amendment. Maybe new federal gun laws will get less deferential treatment.
Which is an absurd inversion, but the Court has long been much more deferential to the level of government that chose its members, than to the states.
You realize that this post is about a judge invalidating a federal gun law, right?
Some feel that a grand jury could indict a [burrito] if asked to do so. [That appears to be a Texification of a New York Chief Judge's famous quote involving a "ham sandwich." -EV]
We could have a judge in every state opine on this substituting their local sandwich specialty.
In Philadelphia, they could indict a cheese-steak.
In New York a Ruben.
In LA, a vegan burger on organic whole-wheat bun. Tastes like sawdust, but hey, it's La-La Land.
And in San Francisco, a poop sandwich.
1970, I believe. That's when the Court decided that "all" didn't really mean all, textualism be damned.
They're not very good at understanding numbers like "twenty dollars", either, I notice.