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Extra Discovery Allowed in States' Lawsuit Claiming Government "Colluded with and/or Coerced Social Media …
companies to suppress disfavored speakers, viewpoints, and contents."
Judge Terry Doughty's opinion yesterday in Missouri v. Biden (W.D. La.) discusses various matters that came out in various ways, but has this to say about perhaps the highest-profile question:
On May 5, 2022, Plaintiffs {the State of Missouri, the State of Louisiana, Dr. Aaron Kheriaty, Dr. Martin Kulldorff, Jim Hoft, Dr. Jayanta Bhattacharya, and Jill Hines} filed a Complaint against Government Defendants {Joseph R. Biden, Jr., Vivek H. Murthy, Xavier Becerra, Department of Health and Human Services, Dr. Anthony Fauci, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, Alejandro Mayorkas, Department of Homeland Security, Jen Easterly, Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Security Agency, and Nina Jankowicz, Karine Jean-Pierre, Carol Y. Crawford, Jennifer Shopkorn, U.S. Census Bureau, U.S. Department of Commerce, Robert Silvers, Samantha Vinograd and, Gina McCarthy}.
In the Complaint and Amended Complaint, Plaintiffs allege Government Defendants have colluded with and/or coerced social media companies to suppress disfavored speakers, viewpoints, and content on social media platforms by labeling the content "disinformation," misinformation," and "malinformation." Plaintiffs allege the suppression of disfavored speakers, viewpoints, and contents constitutes government action and violates Plaintiffs' freedom of speech in violation of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution….
In accordance with the previous expedited discovery order, Plaintiffs served interrogatories and document requests upon White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre {[s]ubstituted for former White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki} and upon Dr. Anthony Fauci in his capacity as Chief Medical Advisor to the President. Government Defendants have refused to provide any interrogatory responses or responsive documents, maintaining that these would be internal communications that would implicate serious separation of powers concerns, that Plaintiffs are required to exhaust other avenues for the discovery first, and that it would be unduly burdensome and disproportional to the needs of the case.
Plaintiffs maintain they have not served interrogatories, and document requests upon President Biden and do not seek internal communications—only external communications that Dr. Fauci and Jean-Pierre sent to the relevant social media platforms.
First, the requested information is obviously very relevant to Plaintiffs' claims. Dr. Fauci's communications would be relevant to Plaintiffs' allegations in reference to alleged suppression of speech relating to the lab-leak theory of COVID-19's origin, and to alleged suppression of speech about the efficiency of masks and COVID-19 lockdowns. Jean-Pierre's communications as White House Press Secretary could be relevant to all of Plaintiffs' examples. {The Hunter Biden laptop story prior to the 2020 Presidential election, speech about the lab-leak theory of COVID-19's origin; speech about the efficiency of masks and COVID-19 lockdowns; and speech about election integrity and security of voting by mail.}
Government Defendants are making a blanket assertion of all communications to social media platforms by Dr. Fauci, and Jean-Pierre based upon executive privilege and presidential communications privilege. Plaintiffs concede they are not asking for any internal White House communications, but only external communications between Dr. Fauci and/or Jean-Pierre and third-party social media platforms.
This Court believes Plaintiffs are entitled to external communications by Jean-Pierre and Dr. Fauci in their capacities as White House Press Secretary and Chief Medical Advisor to the President to third-party social media platforms. The White House has waived its claim of privilege in relation to specific documents that it voluntarily revealed to third parties outside the White House.
Government Defendants' argument that Plaintiffs must seek discovery from other sources also fails. This is expedited preliminary-injunction related discovery. This discovery was opposed by Government Defendants. This is the only chance Plaintiffs will have to get this information prior to addressing the preliminary injunction. This discovery was tailored to the facts alleged in this case. There was no requirement in this Court's order for the Plaintiffs to get this information from other sources first.
Additionally, Plaintiffs have also submitted interrogatories and production requests to the third party social medical platforms. As far as the burden to the White House, it is no more a burden than the other discovery requests Government Defendants have already answered.
Therefore, Government Defendants Jean-Pierre and Dr. Fauci shall provide answers to the Plaintiff's interrogatories and document requests within twenty-one (21) days from the date of this order….
The court also required the government to answer certain interrogatories as to "several employees of HHS which have been identified by Meta as likely engaged in responsive communications with Meta": "HHS's Deputy Assistant Secretary for Public Engagement, the head of HHS's Digital Engagement Team, the Deputy Director of the office of Communications in HRSA, and HHS's Deputy Digital Director."
Disclosure: The plaintiffs are represented in part by the New Civil Liberties Alliance; I serve on the NCLA's Board of Advisors, but they don't need to take my advice and I don't need to agree with their litigation positions. I have not been involved, even in an advisory capacity, with regard to this particular case, and was not asked to blog about it.
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Liberals using a match-made-in-Hell pairing of big government and big tech to censor their political opponents, and they call conservatives the fascists. It's all projection, all the way down.
Indeed. Not to mention...
1. Setting the apparatus of state security to raid political opponents
2. Using misdemeanor crime convictions to "invalidate" people from being able to hold political office...only of the opposing party, of course.
Attacks on the FBI, even on judges and federal officials are quite silly. All attacks should be directed at the oligarch owners of the media and of the Democrat Party.
I do not want to say anything, just add a branch to my comment.
Democrat could not take the hounding of the press anymore. Guy rummaged through his trash. I support the NY Times decision as an excused for this crime. No legal recourse and violence gets justified.
https://www.8newsnow.com/news/police-confirm-search-at-county-officials-home-in-connection-with-journalists-homicide-investigation/
I used to think that these kinds of shenanigans only happen in Russia and third-world banana republics!
Sounds like the textbook definition of facism courtesy of Bennito. This is the true threat to "democracy" not Trump or sending abortion back to the States...come on Reason start to leave cosmo woke safe spaces and start to fight for liberty..
What, court cases?
And what discovery is needed? Here's your discovery: re-watch the Democratic 2020 debates!
The candidates fell all over each other to out-threaten the companies with harm unless they censor harrassment! Wiping section 230, opening them up to lawsuits, which would force them to retract posting out of fear and turn then into European Internet corporations. Section 230 allowed them to rapidly grow into massive dominance over the laws other countries' companies labor under.
Ask car companies what lawsuits do to stock price, or Dow. Growth halts, stocks depress, and the close-to-trillion-dollar-or-more club no longer is.
A threat to cull many hundreds of billions from their stock value.
No wonder they started licking boots.
And we also saw, "Ok, thank you for censoring harrassment 'of your ownfree will'. Please start with the harrassing tweets of our political opponents. One in particular. Right before an election."
"Psst! When rejecting his tweets, make him sound like a real nasty one*!"
* In the voice of Dan Akroyd describing a non-terminal repeating phantasm, or a class 5 full-roaming vapor.
And Republicans did the same, just the other direction. Wipe 230 if they do start censoring politicians. Fight fire with fire?
We, and the First Amendment are all the losers.
All they should have to do is point to the moon and say "Do you believe it's there or not?"
Depends what Fauci told them to say.
Any publisher might listen to what Dr. Fauci had to say, and decide to publish accordingly, or not. Any notion that Dr. Fauci could say anything which would compel a publisher, one way or another, is such obvious nonsense it hard to believe anyone would suggest it.
It is such obvious nonsense that you have to come to its defense by calling it obvious nonsense instead of showing why it is obvious nonsense.
Pro Tip: If it's obvious, you wouldn't need to defend it, would you?
Not to mention, if you have to call it obvious, it obviously isn't obvious.
Or in other words, obvious it isn't.
Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf — See my longer comment previously posted below. There you will find reasoning to show why it is nonsense.
Don't be disrespectful These hayseeds know the moon is there.
They also know that moon is made of green cheese, storks deliver babies, and fairy tales not only are true but also should be the foundation of one's belief system.
What is a woman?
Wait, I thought only Trump and his cronies ignored orders to produce documents.
A legally plausible objection is not the same as ignoring an order.
Objecting that messages sent to outside parties are privileged constitutes a legally plausible objection? No competent person believes that.
The outside parties are social media giants, not lawyers or doctors or clergy. Or presumably spouses.
OK. The court agreed with you and ordered them to turn that over within 21 days. Maybe you are right that they shouldn't have made the argument at all. But is it really that crazy?
Yes, the government defendant's argument was really that crazy.
If they weren't the government they would probably be facing sanctions for making it.
And yet, Team Trump's unsuccessful election challenges are a threat to democracy. I guess I don't have what it takes to achieve goodthink.
He lost all his challenges, and is now demanding to be reinstalled as president, which seems profoundly anti-democratic to me.
"If A and B then X" does not prove "If A then X." Maybe you never studied logic.
You're saying that claiming executive privilege on third-party communications is a plausible objection?
Dammit Bevis for typing faster than me.
The answer to that question is... I don't know.
I had kind of assumed it was not crazy... I am just giving the lawyers who made it the benefit of the doubt.
But, I could be wrong and maybe the argument is frivolous.
No worries, man. Take spousal privilege as a comparison (lots of other differences but this part is basically the same). You tell your wife something...spousal privilege. Your wife tells her sister...privilege gone.
President talks to Fauci...exec privilege. Fauci talks to Google...exec privilege gone.
It didn’t seem like a good argument to me either already. But your analogy was helpful.
The government didn't claim executive privilege on third-party communications, which would indeed be frivolous. It claimed that being required to review documents covered by executive privilege, on the chance that this review might turn up a nonprivileged document, would be excessively burdensome. The government argues that a search of E-mails should be sufficient. Dubious, perhaps, but I doubt that the legal standards are sufficiently clear cut that you could say the government's position was obviously wrong.
Like AG Holder regarding Fast and Furious?
A discovery request is not an order. What the judge issued today was an order.
True. But one should not raise frivolous objections to discovery requests for the sake of delay or obstruction.
While not directly involving fauci and gang trying to surpressing data, the CDC still has 6 discredited studies linked on the CDC claiming masks work.
The CDC was also active in promoting claims about the strong effectiveness of vaxes and trying to hide the rapid decline in effectiveness of vaxes which occurs after 5-7 months. The rapid decline in effectiveness was well known by August 2021 , at least by those paying attention.
How are you defining effectiveness? They declined in their effectiveness with respect to preventing transmission, but they did continue to prevent serious illness and death. Also, declining effectiveness could and was addressed using boosters.
One thing I think we need to do better is the ability to approve new drugs faster in response to variants.
David
The effectiveness of boosters is very short lived, approx 2-3 months for the first booster and less for the 4th booster. Most knowledgable epidemologists are now recommending against boosters, partly due to the ineffectiveness and the emerging evidence that the boosters are actually inhibiting the development of a broader immunity . The exception of the small narrow subset of individuals that have high risk profiles.
You still didn't answer my question about how you define effectiveness.
Do you disagree that the vaccines are effective at reducing death and serious illness?
As far as what most knowledgable epidemologists are recommending nowadays, I have to admit I am not familiar. Happily, COVID-19 is not something I spend much time thinking about nowadays. But if you can provide a link the demonstrates that "most" epidemologists recommend against boosters, I certainly would read it.
David
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2201570
This an Israeli study on the 4th booster. Note that the study period is only 8 weeks. The shortened study period is a common flaw in the covid studies since in hides the signficant drop in effectiveness.
Regarding the supposed continued effectiveness against serious illness and death, there is some dispute - mostly in the form of claiming greater effectiveness than actually occurs. This error is due to two factors, one being a lot of vax deaths and vax hospitalizations are coded as unvaxed (probably in the range of 7-10%). The second factor is the study periods are cut short, virtually none of the studies extend past the 6 month point.
Thank you for the link to the study:
Three takeaways:
1) The fourth dose didn’t help reduce the risk of infection for very long.
2) But it did help protect against serious illness for the entire study period
3) Which was only 6 weeks.
That is very helpful information, so the link is appreciated! Now, I am going to go back to thinking as little as possible about COVID-19 for a little while. What a nightmare.
"Most knowledgable [sic] epidemologists [sic] are now recommending against boosters . . . ."
--Citation for that statement?
The study linked to shows that the fourth booster was effective at reducing risk of serious illness for the entire study period.
So, recommendations to not get boosters don’t make a whole lot if sense, at least for people who match the study population.
You don't even know that. There are no clinical studies where covid was introduced in with controls to say the vaccines had a reduced mortality rate by different groups/ages/sexes/preexisting conditions...that was never done. Maybe it was an effective prophylactic but vaccine it wasn't
Pandemic management tips from disaffected, half-educated, antisocial, superstition-over-science conservatives are always a treat.
And, for a few years, a staple at this white, male, right-wing blog.
I hope UCLA, Georgetown, and a few other legitimate schools have learned from this experience.
Sure, but I take it the purpose of this post is still to congratulate your colleagues? Why else write about a judge bending over backwards to indulge the latest Trumpist lawsuit?
How is the lawsuit Trumpist?
Because it's filed by people who are angry that they can't peddle Covid misinformation?
Do you think that is the only reason to oppose censorship?
No, I think it's the reason these people filed this suit.
You mean Covid misinformation like saying that the vaccine stops transmission?
Before you go there, I’m not anti-vax. I was vaxxed early and subsequently boosted. But the pro-vax side here wasn’t chock full of accurate info either. And firing thousands of workers on the premise that the vaccine stopped transmission was monstrously stupid and is having detrimental effects to this day.
No, not not like information that proved incorrect or incomplete or which had to be altered and adapted as the situation changed, actual lies and misinformation.
Dr Birx had admitted that they knew the vaccines did not prevent transmission.
They STILL said otherwise.
Your comment indicates you are not familiar with Jim Hoft.
Get an education.
Is there a class in Jim Hoft? Like, Intro to Jim Hoft or Jim Hoft 101? Is Jim Hoft now a possible major?
Q: What is your degree in?
A: I have a bachelors of science in Jim Hoft studies.
Jim Hoft is a conspiracy theorist who likes to lie (especially about mass killers); who lathers right-wing assholes to the point of threats against election workers and other decent people; to whom defamation seems a preferred tool of politics; and to whom the Trump administration issued White House press credentials (because conservatives are low-quality, disaffected losers).
Gateway Pundit and Jim Hoft are generally considered by informed, educated, decent people to occupy a category with The Daily Stormer, InfoWars, WorldNetDaily, One America, and a few others.
You seem to prefer to be uninformed. And to be a steadfast defender of right-wing bigots, conservative jerks, and Republican losers. How you wish to devote the time you have remaining before your replacement occurs is, of course, your choice.
"are generally considered by informed, educated, decent people" How would you know that? Do you get their newsletter?
Thank you for making it clear that it is my choice how I spend my time. It seems that you are, in fact, more informed about right wing news media than I am.
Which is interesting.
You should consider calming down a little and consider consuming information that is less likely to inflame your emotions. You are probably inflicting unnecessary stress upon your body. You have certain concerns which, while legitimate, seem disproportionate to their actual importance.
My god Martin.
Oh, yeah, I forget. You’re European so you hate free speech. Although I must observe that you’re fine taking advantage of it over here.
Over where? Are you somehow under the impression that I'm typing this from the US?
No. You’re posting it on a server located in the US.
If you can’t see how it’s a problem for an administration - any administration of any political view - to decide what is and isn’t misinformation I’m not sure you can be reached. There’s nothing Trumpian about this lawsuit. As far as I know this behavior is much worse than anything Trump ever did because it encroaches directly on first amendment rights.
And yeah I know that the platforms don’t have to publish anything so don’t bring up that canard. The problem here is that the platforms weren’t making free decisions, they were doing it under the thumb of the government.
Actually, I was more surprised to learn that you apparently think that the US First Amendment protects me when I'm typing this in the UK. If I, say, write something that violates the Contempt of Court Act, such as the details of a crime that is currently being tried in an English court, I promise you none of the blessings of American law could help me.
Or, to put that another way, nothing I have written in almost 20 years of commenting on the Volokh Conspiracy has depended on the supposed blessings of the First Amendment. Those freedom-hating European laws do me just fine.
Yes, because you always toe the party line.
The Tory Party line??? So you're now accusing me of being a right-wing wingnut?
Is that meant to be funny?
IIRC, you can also get in trouble for calling for the abolition of the monarchy, using the Koran to argue that homosexuality is sinful, or arguing that people who believe in the Koran tend to be homophobic.
It’s just a paradise of free speech in jolly old England.
Do you know who else called for the abolition of the monarchy? This lady: https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/liz-truss-monarchy-republicanism-abolish-b2128076.html
Anyone worried about Trump should be relieved that the courts may be stepping in to prevent government/media/social media collusion to suppress dissident voices.
That's one of the prime hallmarks of fascism, is suppression of other views by "cooperation" with private actors.
Things like the government providing lists of people or topics they want banned or throttled, the FBI providing "disinformation" warnings to keep information derogatory to favored politicians out of public view, etc.
That's one of the prime hallmarks of fascism, is suppression of other views by "cooperation" with private actors.
It is, which is why the Germans invented ordoliberalism. Enforcing the antitrust laws properly is an important way to avoid the possibility of the government doing anything by colluding with a private enterprise.
On the other hand, if you're such a snowflake that you see intimidation in any suggestion that maybe a company has some kind of social responsibility, then I really don't know how to help you.
(Actually, come to think of it, I do know how to help you with that one. Prof. Volokh did a whole series of blog posts about that topic not too long ago. A well-crafted Google search should probably allow you to find those posts without too much difficulty.)
“Some kind of social responsibility” in this case = “allow messages consistent with the opinion of the government and suppress everything else”.
That’s fine, right?
Bevis, what do you think, "suppress," means? Seriously. Do you suppose Dr. Fauci offering views to the contrary amounts to suppression?
Not at all. I think pressuring the SM companies to block opinions contrary to Fauci is suppression.
In what logic does Fauci expressing his opinion suppress anything?
The case is about a demand for Fauci's communications with media companies. Given your question, how do you justify that demand?
More generally, what threats has government made against social media companies to force them to suppress opinions which disagree with Fauci? And why would you presume social media companies have any legal obligation at all to publish objections to what Fauci says, if they prefer not to do that?
I guess you can't help me then, because I think companies have a primary and secondary and thirdindary (I just coined that) responsibility to maximize profits within the law. I know when I invest my money that is what I expect them to do.
But maybe you could better explain how it benefits society to suppress the views of prominent medical researchers like:
Dr. Aaron Kheriaty, Dr. Martin Kulldorff, Dr. Jayanta Bhattacharya.
Maybe listening to their input could have at least mitigated the devastating impact to children's learning from covid lockdowns.
https://fortune.com/2022/09/01/covid-devastating-effect-school-children-new-test-scores/
When you look at the charts take note that there is no sign yet of test scores leveling out or starting to improve, they are still dropping.
But maybe you could better explain how it benefits society to suppress the views of prominent medical researchers like:
Dr. Aaron Kheriaty, Dr. Martin Kulldorff, Dr. Jayanta Bhattacharya.
Kazinski — You seem to presume the present social media system results in that suppression. I tend to agree. It is, after all, a system grotesquely short of publishing alternatives.
What you have not shown is any legal basis to fix the problem by ending press freedom, nor any practical reason to suppose doing that could possibly deliver an improvement.
I suggest that makes you a natural candidate to ally yourself with my advocacy, for government policies to promote profusion and diversity among private publishers. That was for more than a century a system which worked so well it was generally regarded as an ornament to civilization. It could be restored to its former glory, but to do so requires repeal of Section 230.
I doubt you are ready to take that step. Thus, I predict either a long interval of frustration while you and others cast about for a non-existent utopian alternative, or a shorter course toward public catastrophe, if advocacy succeeds to empower government to force publishers to include government-ordered points of view.
Kazinski, I was genuinely surprised by your link. When I read, "devastating," I expect to see effects far more disturbing than those unaccustomed but nevertheless small declines. Despite the truncated graphs—designed for exaggerated visual effect—those results are measured on a 500-point scale. Thus, they depict declines < 2% in the scores (actually, a drop of only 1% for reading). From the link:
The average reading score dropped by five points on a 500-point scale in 2022 compared with 2020, the largest decline since 1990, according to the National Center for Education Statistics. The average mathematics score dropped seven points on the same scale, marking the first-ever score decline in the subject.
I would have expected a missed year would have delivered notably more destruction than that.
When Trump, or a right-wing successor, gets in power and starts using the power of the government to compel news and media to carry their preferred misinformation, nobody will be surprised, but this won't stop them.
Except they HAVE not done this while Biden DID do precisely this.
Requring someone to respond to discovery is not "bending over backwards." It's done every working day in federal courts. The objections here were at best bordeline frivolous.
Sounds right to me.
Also, while the problems of misinformation and disinformation are very, the solution is not urging social media censorship. Because doing that only makes the information actually more credible in the eyes of some. Further, we can see how good information can be suppressed along with bad information, as happened with the Hunter Biden laptop story.
Ultimately, the way to protect society from misinformation and disinformation must primarily involve teaching people critical thinking skills that centers people into asking the question: "How do I know this information is true? What do I know? How do I know it?", not censorship.
Not a fan of nonsense-teaching, dogma-enforcing, conservative-controlled religious schools, Mr. Welker?
That would be a strong step in the right direction.
Having never attended such a school, I am in no position to intelligently judge them. Superficially, I would expect quality differences between schools and quality differences between classes and professors within the same school.
Are those expectations influenced by whether a school respects science or, instead, flatters superstition at the expense of science? By whether a school teaches reality-based history or, instead, enforces silly dogma? By whether a school respects academic freedom or, instead, flouts it?
By whether a school is operated in, by, and for the liberal-libertarian mainstream (which operates our strongest research and teaching institutions) or, instead, is controlled by conservatives (who tend to operate fourth-tier schools with substandard students, faculty, alumni, curricula, and everything else)?
'Because doing that only makes the information actually more credible in the eyes of some.'
I'm not sure what's been happening really amounts to censorship - if foreign actors are promoting this stuff, as is likely, then it seems to me there is a role for the government to warn private entities about it - but the list of things that makes this misinformation credible in the eyes of some is long, varied, arbitrary and endlessly adaptable. They all think they're the best at critical thinking.
David
"Ultimately, the way to protect society from misinformation and disinformation must primarily involve teaching people critical thinking skills that centers people into asking the question: "How do I know this information is true? "
good point regarding critical thinking skills -
It was rather quick to ascertain that Ivermectin didnt work
Same with Resmiver which was far less effective than promoted.
Likewise being able to recognize that the studies showing masks worked had serious flaws.
Likewise with the studies highlighting the effectiveness of vaccinations while always cutting the study period short (almost always 6 months or less.
The states of Missouri and Louisiana are in league with the Gateway Pundit?
Play stupid games -- like put a Federalist Societeer at attorney general, or rank at the bottom of the 'states by educational attainment' list -- and win stupid prizes.
If you have 50 states, I guess some of them must be the shittiest states.
Carry on, clingers.
(The knuckle-draggers benefit from a good draw; Judge Doughty is the Republican whose opinion with respect to a pandemic case relied on science-flouting, at-the-wingnut-fringe falsehoods.)
When did you start believing Ivermectin could be used to treat COVID?
I do not believe in wingnut medicine.
I blame my education, intellect, and judgment.
It is hard to understand why there is a legal case here, except as a sham exercise to rile up the right wing base. Problem is, publishers are free to publish or not, just as they please. That seems to complicate thinking about what remedy a case could apply.
Consider. If government scientists make a purposeful attempt to convince publishers that Covid advocacy from right wingers is misinformation, publishers are free to take that into account, and not publish right wing advocacy. To do that is not an offense of any kind. Or publishers are free to ignore government scientists, and publish what right wingers want them to publish. That would also not be an offense.
If government bureaucrats—probably not scientists—try to take it farther, and suggest in some vague way that government might make trouble for a publishers who do not publish according to government preferences, that is really no different. Publishers are free to yield to government pressure, if only to protect themselves, or to save inconvenience and the expense of resisting. In times gone by, the nation's most prestigious publishers—particularly including the New York Times—took that course time and again.
So given publishers' unfettered freedom to respond as they please, it is hard to imagine what Dr. Fauci's communications could have in them to prove a case for government censorship. It is likewise difficult to imagine what controls a court could order government to put on Dr. Fauci's communications.
To be sure, real government censorship, by force, is always a threat. But I do not think that comes in the form of government scientific advocacy contrary to right-wing preferences. I could understand a legal probe into some kind of consequential threat against a publishing platform, conditioned on toeing the line or else. That would never come from government scientists, who have no such "or-else" power. It would have to be explicit, and it would have to come from the President, or from Congress acting as a whole, or maybe from the Justice Department, or maybe from the IRS. In short, it would have to come from the parts of government with real power to hurt people.
Government scientists can't do that. No publisher would even think twice about a censorship threat from a government scientist.
Absent any showing that an explicit threat backed by real power has happened, I do not understand why a court would entertain content-based complaints about publishers' decisions. The publishers remain free to make content-based decisions at pleasure, for any reason, for no reason, or for a cowardly reason to cater to government preferences, and stay on government's good side—however reprehensible I would call that as a matter of responsible publishing.
As people who have followed my commentary will be familiar, none of what I said above is in any way a defense of giantistic internet publishing platforms. Nor is it a suggestion that their operations and activities are anything except a menace to the public life of the nation.
I continue to believe the internet publishing giants are a national blight. I continue to insist that the only available safe harbor for press freedom will prove to be public policies to promote diversity and profusion among tens-of-thousands of smaller private publishers.
I am thus frustrated to get no support, while listening to complaints about what happens now—complaints which only seek to enlarge the existing regime, and make it worse. Those complaints amount to little more than demands that government compel platforms to extend special mandated privileges to right wingers, in disregard of the publishers' rights to press freedom. To do that would be actual government censorship, of the extreme kind, done under threat of government power.
If you don't like the way internet publishing works now—and you should not like it—back policies to promote diversity and profusion for private publishers. Or instead become a giant internet publisher yourself, if you think that will prove easier, or will serve you better. Good luck.
If time and events still leave you frustrated, as I predict they will, maybe reconsider. Stop demanding government compulsion for particular publishing content, and see what other methods might serve you better. Actual press freedom is always an option. If you could get that back, you would have a realistic opportunity to participate in it.
Stephen it looks like Democratic officials are starting to step up their efforts, rather than merely making threatening suggestions they have pivoted to more direct regulation of the press:
https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/homicides/police-arrest-county-official-in-reporters-stabbing-death-2635486/
And of course a Republican official is "pouncing":
"Less than a day after asking for the public’s help in identifying a suspect in the stabbing death of Las Vegas Review-Journal investigative reporter Jeff German, police arrested Clark County" Democratic "Public Administrator Robert Telles on Wednesday on suspicion of murder," Republican gubenatorial candidate "Sheriff Joe Lombardo said."
That publishers don't have unfettered freedom to respond as they please.
And there would be something in Dr. Fauci's communications to show that? I am not getting this, Nieporent. Help me out. What do you think will turn up in Dr. Fauci's communications to show threats against social media platforms?
How do I know? That's the whole point of discovery.
When the mob sends people to keep a business in line, the front guy never makes explicit threats. That's what the muscle in the background is for. And that's why Fauci isn't the only kind of person being asked here -- so are White House spokespeople who provide the "or else" part of coercion.
When they do that, they become state actors who are subject to the First Amendment's limits on government compulsion and speech preferences (among other constitutional limits).
A general comment about the way commentary goes about social media, and government threats. I think a lot of right wingers really are terrified of government. I suggest that colors their estimations of how others who are less terrified might respond.
It would be pretty hard for a publisher to get along on a day-to-day basis who wasn't pretty thick skinned about the opinions of others—very much including the opinions of the powers that be. Too much of publishing decision making requires estimations about what can be proved true as a practical matter, or what can prove profitable as a practical matter, without giving too much of a damn about who cares how the estimations come out.
If you worry a lot every day about what the general public thinks about you, or what the government thinks about you, then maybe publishing isn't for you. Ultimately those thoughts may prove quite important to a publisher, but he has to undertake that thinking as someone with ambition to lead those opinions, not be buffeted by them.
Maybe right wingers worry that most publishers are like them, and always terrified of government. The nature of the job makes that unlikely.
If you are on the political right, and suppose your kind of thinking is getting short shrift in social media, to posit fearful publishers as an explanation ought to be far down your list. For better insight, start instead with what makes money. A lot of publishers are pretty wary of publishing content which advertisers don't want to see anywhere near where their products get promoted.
The bigger and more encompassing the publication, the greater that tendency becomes, By contrast, a niche publisher can always look to get by with niche-loyal advertisers.
Today's social media platforms are the biggest and most encompassing publishers in the history of the world.
Some of them are so scared that they think that merely allowing people to speak is actually harmful to the first amendment! Oops — no, sorry, that's Lathrop.
"I serve on the NCLA's Board of Advisors, but they don't need to take my advice and I don't need to agree with their litigation positions."
Is there something about this litigation position you find offensive? The disclaimer would suggest there is.
Brett, there's NOTHING in that comment that suggests any such thing. This is a conventional statement that Prof. V and others on this and other blogs frequently post when they have a connection to someone connected to a case.
I believe that when you talk about flattering superstition, you mean is open to religious beliefs. Is that correct?
I do not believe it is correct to flatter anything at the expense of science. Humans should follow the evidence. That said, there are topics, such as whether there is an afterlife, that are beyond scientific knowledge as it currently stands. Anyone who understands the scientific method understands that science has limits and some questions cannot be fully answered by science. An example is history. If you want to understand a particular historical battle for example, you may use certain tools derived from science, but overall study of the topic isn’t driven by the scientific method. You can’t repeat historical battles as science experiments in an attempt to ascertain the impact of each variable, for example.
As for your last point, regarding WHO controls the institution, this is completely irrelevant to me. Knowledge is knowledge wherever it is taught and regardless of who teaches it. The only way to understand the quality of an education is to experience it. Something that is too expensive to do very much. In place of actual knowledge, it appears you prefer to rely on superficial things such as rankings and who is in control of a particular institution.
This comment somehow got misplaced.