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Media Intervenors' Argument Supporting Unsealing Mar-A-Lago Search Warrant Affidavit
The search warrant and some related materials have been unsealed—but the affidavit is where the details on the justifications for the search would be, and the government has argued this has to remain secret, at least for now.
Monday, I blogged the government's argument against unsealing the affidavit, and said I'd blog the reply to it when it was filed; here is the bulk of the principal reply:
The government and the Media Intervenors agree that the public has a "clear and powerful interest" in understanding the unprecedented investigation into former President Donald J. Trump's handling of classified records. They also agree that the common-law right of access applies to the search warrant materials currently under seal. They further agree that the law required release of the search warrant and property receipt, which the Court has now done, and that the cover sheets for the search warrant application, the government's motion to seal, and the Court's sealing order should be unsealed immediately as well, all with only minor redactions. And they agree that the government may be able to make a sufficient showing of a compelling interest authorizing it to maintain under seal some details of the investigation while it remains ongoing.
The government, however, has taken the position that the affidavit of probable cause must remain under seal in its entirety, despite the presumption of access, with little explanation as to how release would harm the ongoing investigation, and even though many details of the investigation are already public. In the government's view, the necessary redactions "would be so extensive as to render the document devoid of content that would meaningfully enhance the public's understanding of these events." This runs counter to the presumption of public access, which requires the disclosure of as much information as possible. The affidavit of probable cause should be released to the public, with only those redactions that are necessary to protect a compelling interest articulated by the government.
THE PUBLIC'S "CLEAR AND POWERFUL INTEREST" IN THE SEARCH WARRANT RECORDS EXTENDS TO THE AFFIDAVIT OF PROBABLE CAUSE.
As Attorney General Merrick Garland aptly wrote when he was Chief Judge of the D.C. Circuit:
The common-law right of public access to judicial records is a fundamental element of the rule of law, important to maintaining the integrity and legitimacy of an independent Judicial Branch. At bottom, it reflects the antipathy of a democratic country to the notion of 'secret law,' inaccessible to those who are governed by that law."
Leopold v. United States (D.C. Cir. 2020) (citation omitted); see also MetLife, Inc. v. Fin. Stability Oversight Council (D.C. Cir. 2017) (Garland, J.) (right of access "serves to produce an informed and enlightened public opinion," to "safeguard against any attempt to employ our courts as instruments of persecution, to promote the search for truth, and to assure confidence in judicial remedies" (internal marks omitted)).
Separately, as the government notes, there is a First Amendment right of access to certain criminal proceedings. While the Eleventh Circuit has not considered whether the First Amendment right of access attaches to search warrant materials, the Eighth Circuit has recognized a First Amendment right, as has at least one court within this District. Although some courts have reached different conclusions, the Eighth Circuit's view is more consistent with Supreme Court precedent.
Consistent with the presumption of access, the Department of Justice, under the Attorney General's leadership, has joined the Media Intervenors in recognizing that the public has a "clear and powerful interest in understanding what occurred in" the search of Trump's Mar-a-Lago residence, which "weighs heavily in favor of unsealing." In recognition of that public interest, this Court acted promptly and diligently to ensure public access to redacted versions of the search warrant and property receipt.
That same public interest extends to the affidavit of probable cause in this matter, which outlines the government's basis for the extraordinary step of seeking the warrant to search a former President's home. See In re Four Search Warrants (N.D. Ga. 1996) (recognizing "the public's right to understand the legal process, the preservation of the integrity of the fact-finding process, and the furtherance of the appearance of fairness" as interests favoring unsealing of search warrants). The unsealed search warrant and property receipt revealed that Trump is under investigation for potentially violating the Espionage Act, mishandling top secret documents, and obstruction of justice. In these circumstances, it is not merely a recitation of hornbook law to say that the public has a right to learn as much as possible, and as soon as possible, about this "historically significant event," including the details of the investigation. Newman v. Graddick (11th Cir. 1983); see also Globe Newspaper Co. v. Super. Ct. (1982) (right of access "ensure[s] that th[e] constitutionally protected discussion of governmental affairs is an informed one" (internal marks omitted)). Notably, the former President has made no objection to the release of any warrant materials, and in fact has … call[ed] for "the immediate release of the completely Unredacted Affidavit" on social media.
The government has told the Court, in arguing to keep the affidavit under seal, that if it were to release the document, certain unspecified redactions would be "necessary to mitigate harms to the integrity of the investigation." While the government characterizes those necessary redactions as "extensive" in making this argument, it admits that some portions of the document, if released, would not harm the investigation. Yet the government thus far appears to have made no effort to identify the particular portions of the affidavit that it believes pose a risk and explain the basis for that belief, instead asserting that the Court is already "familiar with the highly sensitive contents of the affidavit and the specific harms that would result from its unsealing." To overcome the presumption of access, this Court must make findings of fact on the record supporting closure. See, e.g., Press-Enterprise Co. ("The interest is to be articulated along with findings specific enough that a reviewing court can determine whether the closure order was properly entered."). The government has offered the Court little assistance in this regard, given the high level of abstraction in its response.
Any proposed redactions must be narrow, the government must explain to the Court why each redaction is necessary "to mitigate harms to the integrity of the investigation," and only those redactions determined to meet a compelling need articulated by the government after the Court conducts an in camera review can be justified. The Media Intervenors request the opportunity to be further heard by the Court should they wish to challenge any redactions in the affidavit as publicly filed.
[I.] THERE IS NO COMPELLING INTEREST IN CONTINUED SEALING OF INFORMATION ALREADY PUBLICLY DISCLOSED.
As the government also recognized in its Motion to Unseal Limited Warrant Materials, the interest in maintaining secrecy is greatly diminished once the information contained in a judicial record has already been disclosed to the public through other sources. The government rightfully noted that the law required unsealing the warrant and property receipt because "the occurrence of the search and indications of the subject matter involved [were] already public."
Indeed, the press has already widely reported significant details about the events leading up to the search and the investigation, including that:
- Some of the materials sought in the Mar-a-Lago search related to nuclear weapons and/or "special access programs";
- The National Archives referred the matter to the Justice Department after it retrieved 15 boxes of materials from Mar-a-Lago in January7;
- Some of the materials recovered by the National Archives were classified, including signals intelligence;
- Some of the recovered materials were torn up and needed to be taped back together;
- The Department of Justice launched an investigation and convened a grand jury;
- This spring, the Department of Justice served a subpoena on Trump seeking additional classified materials in his possession;
- Department of Justice officials, including Jay Bratt, the department's chief of counterintelligence and export control, met at Mar-a-Lago in June with Trump attorneys Christina Bobb and Evan Corcoran;
- During the June meeting, Trump briefly stopped by but did not answer any questions;
- Also during the June visit, the group toured storage facilities at Mar-a-Lago and reviewed some materials there;
- Bratt subsequently sent an email to Corcoran instructing him to further secure the area where the documents were kept;
- One of Trump's attorneys signed a letter to the Department of Justice stating that all materials marked as classified and held in storage at Mar-a-Lago had been turned over;
- The Department of Justice also subpoenaed surveillance footage from Mar-a- Lago, which showed that boxes were moved in and out the storage room where the records at issue were kept; and
- Justice Department officials interviewed many current and former Trump employees, at least one of whom indicated there may have been additional classified materials remaining at Mar-a-Lago.
To the extent that the affidavit of probable cause contains any of this information, or other details about the investigation already reported in the press, there is no compelling interest in maintaining it under seal. Instead, those portions of the affidavit should be made public even if the Court finds a compelling interest to maintain other discrete portions under seal. See In re Four Search Warrants (releasing redacted search warrant affidavits where "much of the information" they contained had "already been made widely available to the public" through news reports).
The government's position that any redactions would "render the document devoid of content that would meaningfully enhance the public's understanding of these events beyond the information already now in the public record," turns the presumption of public access to judicial records on its head. The public is entitled to review judicial records unless there is a compelling interest to deny access, not if there is a sufficient reason to grant access to a redacted record, as the government has suggested. And it is the public itself, not the government, that should have the opportunity to determine whether the information available enhances its understanding of this historic event.
The media intervenors did, however, agree with the government's request for "the temporary continued sealing of the … names [of additional prosecutors referenced in those documents] at this time."
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As I have posted before, they are right on the law, but they will lose anyway, b/c the govt. generally gets a free pass on this. Whether an appellate court upholds it remains to be seen.
Like the affidavit in Sen. Burr's search, it will be 99% redacted anyway, even if the motion is granted.
I do like the cite to Garland though.
Bob from Ohio....How long before the judge issues his ruling, do you think?
Just noting - Its been reported that the same FBI group that ran the Russian collusion investigation is running the Mar-lago raid.
*where* and *by whom* has it "been reported"?
https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2022/08/18/fbi_unit_leading_mar-a-lago_probe_previously_led_russiagate_hoax_848582.html
Paul Sperry. 'Nuff said.
That reads like an essay written by a student who hadn't done the reading assignment and had to pad the length because the thing was due.
It talks about the "FBI unit" being the same, but all that means is that this is a counterintelligence case, as was the previous one. It does not mean, the way Sperry tries to make it sound, that it's the same people. And since Sperry doesn't have anything to say about the current investigation, he just fills it up with lots of half-made up stuff about the earlier one that he's already printed dozens of times. (I love how he's always citing "FBI veteran Michael Biasello" in these columns, never disclosing that the guy has been retired for like 15 years and doesn't have any knowledge of anything.)
Same unit i.e. division - counterintelligence division.
"the way Sperry tries to make it sound, that it's the same people. "
From the article:
"Although the former head of Crossfire Hurricane, Peter Strzok, was fired after the disclosure of his vitriolic anti-Trump tweets, several members of his team remain working in the counterintelligence unit, the sources say, even though they are under active investigation by both Durham and the bureau's disciplinary arm, the Office of Professional Responsibility. The FBI declined to respond to questions about any role they may be taking in the Mar-a-Lago case."
Which people? What sources? Does the FBI typically tell the curious which agents are staffing which cases?
I'd guess not, but the point is, the article does not make it sound like it's the same people.
Hey, I'm not saying Sperry did a good job; he's Paul Sperry, after all. I'm just saying that was the entire point of the article.
Nobody else can hear the voices in your head, Joe.
One trick dumb pony. Go somewhere else
Should I just lie my ass off like you do?
Jason Cavanaugh
August.18.2022 at 1:39 pm
Flag Comment Mute User
Should I just lie my ass off like you do?"
Pot meet kettle
real clear politics
gotta love cavanaugh honesty
https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2022/08/18/fbi_unit_leading_mar-a-lago_probe_previously_led_russiagate_hoax_848582.html
Jason has reading comprehension difficulties.
Given your track record, allegations made without evidence to back them up gives plenty of reason enough to doubt you.
Also, perhaps you should consult a dictionary, because expressing doubt that you are telling the truth is not itself a lie by any stretch of a normal, rational person's mind.
I'm curious how many people you think are in the FBI's Counterintelligence Division, and why you seem to think it's an honest remark to simply say it's the "same group."
The fact you linked a source calling it the "Russiagate hoax" says everything anyone needs to know about your character, and your intellect.
you mean Russian collusion "Hoax"
I think you mean Russian collusion hoax hoax, because it's the notion that it's a hoax that's the lie.
David Nieporent
August.18.2022 at 2:58 pm
Flag Comment Mute User
"I think you mean Russian collusion hoax hoax, because it's the notion that it's a hoax that's the lie."
David - at this point in time - can you point to anything showing collusion . Seriously
Two years and $20 million didn't provide any evidence that Russian collusion was a thing,
That's not what Mueller said. He said that "collusion" wasn't a legal term, so he would not opine on that; he looked for conspiracy (which is a legal term), not collusion.
Mueller won't opine on the Collusion Delusion. But don't worry, David Nieporent will!
Mueller didnt even know about Steele yet, David N still thinks there was russian collusion.
David Nieporent
August.18.2022 at 3:44 pm
Flag Comment Mute User
That's not what Mueller said. He said that "collusion" wasn't a legal term, so he would not opine on that; he looked for conspiracy (which is a legal term), not collusion."
David - mueller completely missed the conspiracy, HRC conspiracing with the FBI to influence an election with a criminal investigation a scandal created and orchestrated by the HRC campaign.
And this, Joe, is an example of why you can’t be trusted to be telling the truth without outside sources corroborating your claims.
You’re nothing but a bald-faced partisan liar.
jason & Sarcastro
Are you both that ignorant of who paid for the Steele Dossier?
talk about willful ignorance
LOL I hadn't heard this one yet. Hillary conspired with the FBI? The one that spiked her campaign?
Are you an idiot?
Where ya been? This is what right wingers have been saying from day one.
The leaks actually make it more important for the government to keep affidavit C sealed; If we could see the affidavit, we could evaluate whether the leaks were accurate!
That might frustrate the government's overriding interest in
jury tamperingcurating public opinion.Just asking, but are the plebes still chanting "Lock Her Up" at the Trump rallies?
As for the affidavit, what to the rules say about whether Trump's lawyers get a copy? Is it the the full one, a redacted version, and are they allowed to publish it themselves? Why don't we get it from them?
Right now, Trump’s lawyers very likely don’t know what exactly is in the affidavits, because if they knew, Trump would know, and while not directly exposing the information, his responses would be better tailored to what was in the affidavits.
I have not seen any reporting that Trump's lawyers have been provided with the affidavit.
Mostly, Trump's lawyers are getting subpoenas, disciplinary complaints, target letters, warrants, searches, and seizures these days.
MAGA: My Attorneys Getting Accused
MAGA: My Associates Getting Arraigned
MAGA: My Allies Giving Allocutions
MAGA: My Aides Getting Apprehended
Against that background it is not surprising to encounter reports that accomplished, legitimate lawyers continue to refuse to work for Donald Trump and that he consequently must settle for a shambling, bumbling group of warped posers, downscale strivers, and celebrity wannabes.
Carry on, clingers.
Obfuscation and dissembling seem to be your stock in trade.
The affidavits are under seal. The only people who have seen them are the Government's lawyers, the Magistrate Judge and his clerks.
All Trump's lawyers saw were the warrant itself. Which states what the FBI may seize, and where, but not the reasons why the Court should (and did) issue the warrant.
Rule 41(f) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure requires that agents executing a search warrant leave an exact copy of the warrant and a receipt for items taken with the person whose premises were searched or on the searched premises. Someone who receives such documents is free to publish them. The affidavit supporting the warrant is not required to be left with the person or on the premises.
A party aggrieved by an unlawful search can move for return of property pursuant to Fed.R.Crim.P. 41(g), a civil proceeding with the attendant discovery procedures. After an indictment is returned, a criminal defendant with an interest in the property or premises who claims that the search or seizure was invalid may move to suppress evidence pursuant to Rules 12(b)(3)(C) and 41(h).
All true, but you left out an important part. Many courts have held that where a court relies on (or even reviews) documents to issue relief, there is a strong First Amendment and/or common law right of access by the public to review them. The Govt. has to show compelling reasons to keep them under seal.
Yes, but you left out an important part, which is that "will interfere with an ongoing criminal investigation" (especially one involving national security!) is a compelling reason.
In a high-profile case like this the magistrate isn't going to just rubber stamp that argument the way he probably would in, e.g., a mine-run drug trafficking investigation — but at the same time, in a high-profile case like this he's going to weight that interest particularly heavily.
Assuming that avoiding potential interference with an ongoing criminal investigation is a compelling reason in the abstract, I disagree that the DOJ has made a showing that disclosure of the affidavit in this case will compromise the investigation. The government at footnote 6 of its response in opposition to unsealing offered to do so in a sealed, ex parte filing, but that would be unfair to the media intervenors -- the government is claiming in conclusory fashion that it will be prejudiced by public disclosure, but it refuses to articulate in public the reasons for such claim.
It COULD be a compelling reason. Or it could not. The government would have to justify it.
Did they actually reveal national security secrets in the application? That sounds pretty stupid to me. All you need to do is say, "he is withholding a paper that has the nuclear launch codes in it." You don't have to acutally give the Magistrate Judge the launch codes. So how would the affidavit containing that sentence endanger national security?
BTW, my guess is that the launch code is: "Putin Is A Weenie," substituting the name of the leader of the country we want to nuke (Xi, Kim, etc. )
Sure. But the government only has to justify it to the magistrate, not to the rest of us.
I agree that the affidavit should be unsealed. My citation to the Rules of Criminal Procedure was in response to Orbital Mechanic's question, "As for the affidavit, what [do] the rules say about whether Trump's lawyers get a copy?"
No, Trump's lawyers don't get a copy unless and until this ripens into a case against him. (Or it's made public due to a lawsuit like this one, obviously.)
Anyone care to speculate on when the decision will be released?
Not the first time I have posted the timeline of this whole mess makes no sense.
From what I have seen Garland first became aware of the application for a warrant to raid (or whatever the libtards are now calling it) in early June. There seems to be some reason to thing those wanting a warrant viewed it as something that needed to be done quickly as there was potential (depending on who you ask) for Trump to sell, destroy, flush down the toilet, or otherwise compromise the sensitive information.
So Garland waited six weeks or so before OKing the warrant on a Friday but delayed the actual raid till Monday which makes no sense at all if things needed to be done in a timely manner.
There is not much doubt if Trump is actually charged all the supporting documents will see the light of day and any redactions will only increase the claims that the whole investigation is political. Since at some point they will come out the longer the delay the worse the DOJ/FBI look; especially with the impossible to explain timeline.
For half the population, the timeline doesn't need to be explained, because they're starting from the conclusion that Trump must be guilty, and reasoning back from that.
What you're probably looking at is how long it took them to work up the nerve to take this step, which they know was no minor thing.
By that sterling logic, it doesn't matter for anyone, since the other half of the population would blame BLM if Trump shot someone on 5th Avenue.
BLM did shoot folks and no one was blamed but nice post.
When someone defended themselves from getting murdered by BLM that was the problem!
It's very easy to say that people wouldn't blame Trump if he murdered somebody, when he's very unlikely to murder somebody. So you face no risk of being proven wrong.
Look, to get a rubber stamp January 6th panel, they broke an over 200 year old tradition that the minority party gets to name its own members to a committee. Getting Trump is a lot more important to them than maintaining existing norms.
So now they've broken the norm that you treat former Presidents politely, and raided his house. I suppose next they'll indict him, and then they'll invoke Section 3 to keep him off the ballot in multiple states.
And all if it is going to be on a basis that half the population thinks is nuts. At no point in this long vendetta against him have they EVER had a case that persuaded anyone who didn't already hate his guts. And all that failure to persuade ever did was cause them to double down.
So now they've broken the norm that you treat former Presidents politely, and raided his house.
I would think asking politely to return documents he's not supposed to have, and then issuing a subpoena, none of which produced the desired results, before issuing a search warrant - not "raiding" -was polite enough.
Ah, more of those "facts" we were discussing in the other thread. That's certainly NARA's position. Do you honestly believe there's no body of documents over which Trump and NARA might legitimately dispute ownership? Or is this the first administration since the passage of the Presidential Records Act where when NARA says "mine" the president must just knuckle under or prepare for the clink?
Um, you know that it's Trump who was the one who said that, right?
hyperbole -- exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally
Trump's a buffoon, but he is not that stupid.
He is stupid, but in this case he's right. We've seen how partisan hackish some of the Trumpkins here are.
Some would endorse his action; some would excuse it; some would deny it; some would whatabout it. But they wouldn't hold it against him.
Count me in the third half of the population. I despise Trump, for what that's worth, but I still think Garland and the DOJ had better present a *VERY* strong case for why they conducted that search & seizure. If Trump is guilty of serious offenses related to those documents, then I strongly support prosecuting him appropriately.
But if not, then I strongly support that this should be career-ending for Garland and many others who pushed this through.
My guess is that Garland and the others at DOJ have done the same calculus, and only took this action because they believe they'll be vindicated in due time. But we'll see....
It also has to be more than the same document dance every president has gone through including Obama
It is, because only Trump refused to hand over classified documents he stole from the US Government.
You'd know that if you weren't a partisan clown.
Yes indeedy! That's why
1) there was a subpoena issued for classified docs remaining at Mar-a-Lago (never required for Obama, who is not accused of improperly keeping presidential documents, except in Trumps lying tweets),
2) to which Trump and/or his lawyers replied with a signed statement saying no classified materials remained (something Obama never had to do, because see #1), which was false and
3) led to a search warrant as the only way to overcome stonewalling, that found illegally retained classified materials (see #1 and #2).
This isn't rocket surgery, people.
Rocket science would be simpler. I would think that any lawyer would be very careful when signing a statement that they had complied with the subpoena. There is an open question as to whether Trump declassified certain documents.
If forced to choose, I'd pick "Trump misled the lawyer" over "lawyer knowingly made a false representation to the FBI".
But fine, let's just go with "illegally retained materials of indeterminate classification status (see #1 and #2)" since none of the grounds in the search warrant actually depend on classification status.
That said, the "I had a double-secret declassification order in my head" excuse is some pretty ridonkulous post-hoc excuse-making. From any politician, from any political party.
Forgetting the issue of classification, it still seems that the lawyers claimed they were responsive to the subpoena.
Absent the affidavit it is hard to know what was being sought and why. Seems like as they so often do the FBI assumed they had carte blanche to go everywhere and seize anything.
" I would think that any lawyer would be very careful when signing a statement that they had complied with the subpoena. "
Trump's lawyers aren't just any lawyers.
The legitimate, able, experienced, accomplished lawyers -- mostly or all Republicans, so far as I have observed -- either (1) terminated their work for Trump relatively quickly or (2) declined to accept engagement from Trump. That has left Trump with Trump Election Litigation: Elite Strike Force . . . although the situation has deteriorated from there, as Trump lawyers received disciplinary proceeding notices, subpoenas, warrants, etc.
It appears today that the lawyers willing to work for Trump are exceptional lawyers.
In the same way that there's an open question as to whether the dead kids at Sandy Hook were crisis actors.
There is no such thing as declassifying without telling anyone. I guess if Trump is prosecuted whatever schlemiel he has as a lawyer might be forced to make that argument since he won't have a better one, but it's going to get laughed out of court.
It's certainly getting laughter from the National Review, that infamous left-wing woke hotbed of lib-y-rul activism:
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/trumps-explanation-of-document-declassification-doesnt-pass-the-smell-test/
Of course you mean the original home of Never Trumpers.
You'll always have Gateway Pundit, the Volokh Conspiracy, FreeRepublic, Stormfront, Instapundit, the Crusader, RedState, and Newsmax . . .
Yes, in 2015. Not in 2022. I'm not sure they have any left other than Kevin Williamson.
There are so many ways in which it's loony.
1) He never told anyone about this order. His own National Security Advisor, John Bolton (who lasted 18 months, not 18 minutes like Flynn), said he never heard about it.
2) More importantly, Trump told anyone about the specific documents to which the order would've applied. That would mean that the entire rest of the federal government has been continuing to treat these declassified documents as if they were still classified.
3) If he had given such an order, any person prosecuted for mishandling classified documents from now on could use the "You haven't proved b.a.r.d. that this material is classified; Trump could have declassified it" defense.
4) It is well established that Trump doesn't read. At all. So the notion that he's taking classified documents back to the residence to read them at night is laughable.
5) "I feel like reading this in bed" is in no sane world a justification for declassifying something. If he had given such a "standing order" we'd have heard about it and there'd have been a revolt.
6) There would have been no need for such a "standing order." If he wanted to take it back to the residence, he could, even if it was still classified. Who's going to stop him, and on what grounds?
Thank you. I agree with everything you have posted.
If TS/SCI material was found at Mar-a-Lago, that's all the justification the government needs--especially if it was related to nuclear weapons, as some have reported. Presidents cannot declassify nuclear secrets through their normal declassification power, either.
"So Garland waited six weeks or so before OKing the warrant on a Friday but delayed the actual raid till Monday which makes no sense at all if things needed to be done in a timely manner."
The execution on a Monday of a search warrant issued on the preceding Friday afternoon is pretty expeditious.
Not if your justification for the warrant is the fear that Trump will "sell, destroy, flush down the toilet, or otherwise compromise the sensitive information".
This is just one of the reasons why the affidavit should be unsealed - so we can judge whether the alleged justification is consistent with the observed prosecutor/law enforcement behavior.
I surmise that the existence of the warrant was not known to Trump or his lawyers until agents appeared at Mar-a-lago to execute the warrant. (It should not have come as a huge surprise, though, what with the ongoing efforts -- including a prior subpoena -- to retrieve the documents in Trump's possession.)
I think presenting the risks of use/destruction as one-dimensional is ... overly simplistic.
In another context, a person who prioritizes not being caught with drugs won't have drugs. But some people obviously possess drugs and hope they won't get caught, and try to conceal their drugs.
So a drug dealer will keep drugs around, because they want to sell/use them, despite the generalized/inchoate risk of a search warrant.
But that drug dealer will still destroy/flush drugs if they learn of an impending search warrant.
Does anyone reasonably disagree with these observations?
Back to Trump: since it appears he wanted to keep the docs that the FBI seized under the warrant (to the point of his lawyer submitting a signed statement to the FBI), it is entirely plausible for the FBI to conclude he was a low risk of destroying the docs at issue as long as he thinks he can fool the FBI, *until* he learns about a warrant.
So they didn't have to rush to serve the warrant on a Friday afternoon, or indeed any particular day, so long as Trump thought he'd gotten away with lying to the FBI. And with that ego, what else would Trump think?
Drugs seem like a poor analogy. The documents in question supposedly have value to the government, and under at least some of the breathless theories are extremely sensitive and valuable to bad actors. If much if any of that were really true, it would be childishly irresponsible for the government to play chicken/game theory and bank on the documents still being around months later.
The lackadaisical timeline is much more consistent with a petulant desire for Trump not to have the documents, whatever they are -- or simply to make a point.
No analogy is perfect, of course. But .. so? "Stopping drug trafficking" supposedly also has some value to the government, at least under some breathless theories about consumer sensitivity and bad actors.
Whether drugs or documents, usually there's a non-zero amount of time required after the first suspicions to interview witnesses, develop other facts, draft a warrant application, etc. And here, the warrant apparently had to go all the way up to the AG to make sure every i was dotted and t crossed. The passage of time does not mean dilatory conduct, especially when other less intrusive routes were attempted first. I find the "OMG THE TIMELINE" bloviating to be ludicrous fact-free speculation.
And if it had been quicker, right now the Trumpist refrain would instead be "OMG they searched TOO FAST! Deep state conspiracy!!1!one!"
But some -- like this one -- are less perfect than others. Much less. And so probably aren't worth bringing up at all. Unless you're one of those lawyers who revels in belting out the first thing that pops in your brain and then defending it to the hilt.
Value of the product, dude -- the subject of your analogy. Not some process related to the product. You know this. Stop trying to fix it.
For documents they'd already subpoenaed and already inspected? You guilty-as-not-yet-charged folks really do need to declare a major.
What an astounding crescendo to a stellar line of logic. Color me convinced!
I think TFG was in New Jersey that weekend and in no position to sell, destroy, etc. any M-a-L held docs. Could be wrong...
Addition question though: what's being "stored" at Bedminster?
It’s not expeditious, if the FBI has been working weeks, if not months on it. It’s not expeditious if the AG pondered about the politics of the whole thing, before approving the warrant application. If, for example nuclear secrets are involved, as supposedly alleged, then not filing for a search warrant that very day is probably negligent. If there really were exigent circumstances driving this, they should have acted like believed those exigent circumstances existed and were compelling.
DOJ/FBI wants a secret affidavit because like the FISA warrants and the Steele dossier the actual reasons are fraudulent.
They then want to go to a DC Grand jury with whatever charge they think they can sell without an outright revolution. Convincing a DC grand jury and trial jury doesn't matter because they are already convinced whatever he's charged with he's guilty of.
Does your psychiatrist know you hallucinate?
So the above described pattern has not been previously executed vs political enemies?
Pointless reply as expected. Do you know how dumb you area?
Expected, yet still ironic.
Projection is strong in you, Jason.
projection, willful ignorance and outright distortions of known facts has become the hallmarks of Jason,
Vegas odds at about 40% he will be indicted
A link to the media intervenors' filing would be helpful.
Here is why a lot of people think it important to release the contents of the affidavits. The Counterintelligence Division (CD) of the FBI opened up the Crossfire Hurricane investigation into Trump in 2016, which ended up with 4 FISA warrants on Carter Page, and the Mueller investigation. The whole edifice didn’t collapse until the underlying material for the FISA warrants was finally declassified and much of it made public. Turns out that they had used news reports from the NYT, WaPo, etc, from their own leaks, to bolster their claims, as well as information from Steele (paid for through Clint and DNC attorneys) to multiple people at various government officials and agencies (esp the FBI and DOJ). Nothing more - just the Steele Dossier round and round. Moreover, the FBI knew, from their interview of Steele’s primary subsource, Igor “Iggy” Danchenko, that much of the allegations in the Dossier came from Danchenko sitting around bars in Georgetown with Russian colleagues making stuff up. This information mysteriously never made it in the supporting material for the 4 FISA warrants, that formed the basis for the Steele Dossier, that the DOJ IG determined to be central to the justification for the warrants. Also, of course missing was that Carter Page had been a trusted source for years for the CIA, and for the last warrant, CD attorney Kevin Clinesmith had modified an email from the CIA, reversing it from that Page had worked for years with the CIA, to that he hadn’t. In any case, for the rest of Trump’s term in office, Trump had attempted to declassify all of the Crossfire Hurricane information, with little success. This intensified after his election loss, and ended, in his last full day in office in a Presidential order ordering the declassification of all of the Crossfire Hurricane information, subject to normal privacy driven redactions. They still apparently still have not been officially declassified (or were reclassified by the Biden Administration).
Why is this old history relevant? Because the CD appears to be up to their eyeballs in this search warrant, and subsequent search. And I think it likely that they were looking for the Presidentially declassified documents implicating them in malfeasance and perfidy in their Crossfire Hurricane investigation and Carter Page FISA warrants. Were those the documents still marked classified that the ones they were looking for.
Why do I think that they are involved? Because there are classified documents involved. In the FBI, they, even more than their sister Counterterrorism Division, are the organization most involved in classified documents, by far. They very likely supplied the agents who went through the supposedly classified documents from the MAL raid. Maybe some other part of the FBI did, but if they did, they almost assuredly were coordinating with CD.
So, why do we need to see the supporting affidavits? For one thing, to see the extent to which the CD is involved, and if they are up to their old tricks of lying by omission (and in Clinesmith’s case, by commission) in court submissions. Because that is really the question here - what was conveniently left out of the affidavits, if anything. And to see if this is just a continuation of its attacks on Trump over the last six years (and maybe a month or two).
when did Crossfire Hurricane kill your puppy?
It didn’t. Of course.
I knew that I would get a dismissive non response, but was curious what it would be.
How many people work for the FBI Counterintelligence Division? How often do agent cycle in and out, in your experience?
I hope I am wrong but there is probably not much chance that the affidavit will be unsealed. Even on the outside chance that it is it will be so heavily redacted (by DOJ's own admission) that it would not add to our understanding of its justification.
I suspect it will be unsealed ... eventually. I'm OK with letting the wheels of justice grinding slow but fine.
But it's interesting that despite Trump's tweets calling for release, his lawyers have not made that argument where it actually matters, to Judge Reinhart in S.D.Fla.
What's Trump afraid of, that he won't make a real attempt? Is he worried that it would undercut his defund-the-FBI grifting?
But it's interesting that despite Trump's tweets calling for release, his lawyers have not made that argument where it actually matters, to Judge Reinhart in S.D.Fla.
The motion is currently brought by media companies. And opposed by the Govt. What do you think Trump is supposed to do?
File a brief with the court, duh, with whatever procedural dressing is currently required (I have no idea of they've appeared in the case or not; news reports generally indicated Trump's lawyers are just there to watch).
Though I guess it wouldn't surprised me that Trump's lawyers are so third-tier they can't figure out how to make a filing with the court on an issue that so directly and unambiguously impacts their client.
But my less snarky complete-and-utter-guess is that his lawyers don't actually think it's a great idea and/or would undercut the fundraising potential of "defund the FBI".
Trump's lawyer took the time to attend the hearing.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1560293502738628609
Seems like she could have filed something instead if her client actually cared.
My thoughts about some aspects of this business:
1. Trump’s claim to have issued a ‘blanket declassification order’ is false and I think most everyone knows it.
2. False or not, it’s impossible to prove he didn’t give such an order.
3. A declassification order would not be a defense to prosecution under the Espionage Act.
4. Trump probably did violate the Espionage Act. Hillary Clinton and tons of other people probably have, too. It’s absurdly broad.
5. I’ll be shocked if he’s prosecuted, even if the files have the damn launch codes. Despite claims of ‘fishing expedition’ and ‘it’s not about documents, it’s about the FBI getting Trump,’ it really looks like the government wanted the files out of Trump’s hands and Trump wasn’t turning them over. How does the government get documents from someone who doesn’t want to turn them over? Search warrant.
1) it wasn’t a blanket declassification order - if I remember correctly, it was just for the Crossfire Hurricane matter, and was issued by him, formally (signed, on letterhead, etc) his last full day in office.
3) of course it would. First, that would mean that, at least at the time he left office, the documents were declassified. Biden may have reclassified them, but absent knowledge of that, Trump would not have willingly, or even grossly negligently removed those documents from the WH - because, as far as he knew, they had been declassified, and he had plenary declassification authority at that time. And, of course, violating the Espionage Act (or at least as far as mishandling classified documents) has an intent (scienter) requirement - requiring either intentional or grossly negligent conduct (but apparently not greatly careless - which is why Clinton was not prosecuted for her emails).
4) Trump was President at the time. It is almost impossible for a sitting President to violate the Espionage Act, since he has plenary power over classification, declassification, foreign policy, the military, etc. Not much left after that.
Regarding #1, you do not recall correctly. (And it's not all Crossfire Hurricane all the time! FFS.)
Trump has floated the specific excuse that there was a "standing order" that declassified *any* document he brought to into his residence:
"Donald Trump's office told Just the News on Friday that the classified materials the FBI seized from his Mar-a-Lago estate were declassified under a "standing order" while he was president that allowed him to take sensitive materials to the White House residence at night to keep working."
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/breaking-trump-describes-process-how-he-declassified-documents
And the reaction in National Review:
"Whatever anybody thinks about the FBI’s actions at Mar-a-Lago, can we all agree that Donald Trump’s claim — that there was a “standing order” that said whatever he brought to his Florida residence was automatically declassified — is patently absurd?"
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/trumps-explanation-of-document-declassification-doesnt-pass-the-smell-test/
At the time of what? This search warrant was issued in August 2022. He wasn't president of the PTA at that point.
False. (And no, that's not what Egan v. Navy says.)
I think that you are grossly overreading that case. Besides, the case did not actually revolve around Presidential orders, but rather Executive action - essentially saying that actions of the Executive Branch in this area can be overridden by Congress.
I agree it’s almost impossible for a sitting President to violate the espionage act. I don’t know if it even needs the qualifier. While he’s in office they’re his secrets to keep, or not. Charging a sitting President with espionage would be like charging you with stealing your own car. Any liability for Trump (which as I said I think is academic because he won’t be prosecuted) would be for what he did with information after he left office.
"4. Trump probably did violate the Espionage Act. Hillary Clinton and tons of other people probably have, too. It’s absurdly broad."
Care to explain how?
Well, I don’t know she or Trump violated the act. But the espionage act is so damn easy to violate. It makes it a crime to expose information relating to national defense through gross negligence if you have reason to believe the exposure will hurt the country. In Hillary Clinton’s case James Comey said her handling of classified info had been extremely careless. While he said as an exercise of prosecutorial discretion he didn’t think a prosecution of Clinton was supported, he also took great pains to highlight that he wasn’t saying she didn’t break the law. Agree or don’t, that’s what he said.
As to whether Trump violated the act, I mean, I wasn’t a fly on the wall on Mar-a-Lago. But come on. It’s Trump. Do we really think he made sure to take extra special care of all those super duper secret documents he kept after leaving office?
And my overall point is that the espionage act sets such a low bar. It just punishes disclosure of information relating to national defense if you have reason to think it will hurt the country. Doesn’t have to be classified info. Disclosure doesn’t have to be to a foreign actor - it can be to anyone. You don’t have to intend to hurt the country. You don’t have to hurt the country at all, intentionally or not. It’s nuts.
Jack Goldsmith recently called the law “famously broad.” I would have said unconstitutional but the Supremes say I’m wrong.
"A declassification order would not be a defense to prosecution under the Espionage Act."
How about you explain that without resorting to positing hypothetical acts generated from your imagination.
18 USC 793(e) makes it a crime to disclose information “relating to the national defense” if you have reason to think it could be used to hurt the United States. The law says nothing about it needing to be classified info. See my comment below for how I think this is absurdly broad and should be unconstitutional. But it’s undergone judicial review and SCOTUS says A-OK.
Again, I don’t think Trump would ever be prosecuted for this whether he violated the letter of the law or not. The practice has been for the gov’t to use the espionage act to punish dissidents and whistleblowers (or “agitators and leakers,” If you like), not ‘important’ people. And as much as I would like to see Trump prosecuted I wouldn’t want it to be under what I consider an unconstitutional law.
Classified documents are to be treated as classified if they are stamped as such, even if the document was later declassified and one particular copy wasn't properly remarked as declassified. The essential takeaway here is that there's a process to declassification and if it isn't completed, the material is still classified. This goes to #1. It isn't possible to have a blanket declassification order without a blanket declassification process.
#2 - but it is possible to prove he DID give an order, because they're documented. Without proof that such an order was given, it effectively wasn't. The guy probably gave orders to whatever portrait is hanging in the presidential toilet at 3am while furiously tweeting utter nonsense to anyone suffering from fast-food indigestion at the same dark hour.
#3 - Nor is it necessarily an order he can give, depending on the nature of the material. Identifying intelligence agents (spies) and giving away nuclear secrets are prohibited by other laws and outside of presidential authority. Also, and this is funny, Biden could have reclassified anything in Trump's possession as the 46th and current sitting president.
#4 - There's a long list of people who did less than Trump, during Trump's own time in office, that were charged under that act. Trump's violations were intentional. Even if one forgives him for the initial set of material he returned (as would be right), his withholding of material, some of it apparently TS/SCI, and possibly some of it in his safe, pretty much establishes intent.
#5 - I'll be shocked if he's prosecuted, even though I think he ought to be. Maybe they'll place him under house arrest at his mansion resort in South Florida like other rich criminals.
Need a bit more evidence.
I’m not an expert at any of this stuff but my impression is that there can be a bureaucratic declassification process but the President isn’t treated as being bound by it. Reportedly Dick Cheney used to rummage around in a filing cabinet in his office for classified documents that helped the message he wanted to put out and ‘declassify’ them by handing them to whatever reporters he was meeting with (I know, he was the Vice President, but… whatever). Of course I agree that whatever declassifying one administration does can be undone by the next.
"Nor is it necessarily an order he can give, depending on the nature of the material. Identifying intelligence agents (spies) and giving away nuclear secrets are prohibited by other laws and outside of presidential authority."
I want to be clear: you are saying that if FDR and Winnie are having the following discussion over a late nite cognac:
FDR: "We know the Japs are going to ..."
Winnie: "How do you know that?"
FDR: "We have Hirohito's butler on the payroll" (which was of course heretofore classified up the ying yang)
that FDR has broken the law?
That illustrates it quite neatly. The President has to have authority over state secrets. Again I’m not an expert but I’d be shocked if there are any government secrets that are outside the President’s authority to control.
I’d say it’s “in camera” time, but these days cameras are on cell phones.
"in camera" is Latin for "in chamber"
Why would there be a reason for "in camera" time? The judge who signed the warrant has already seen the affidavit.
Is that supposed to be a joke? Cause your habeas just ran over my corpus.
In an important case back in the 90’s I once said to the managing partner, “I’ll defend this case asbestos I can!” It did not improve my prospects.
Keep your day job. Comedy is not your forte.
I snorted, but yeah keep the day job.
You remind me of something that happened to me. This is true.
In my second year of law school, many firms came to interview at the school. At one interview with a venerable white shoe firm, the interviewer was a partner who graduated from Harvard Law AND had a degree from Oxford. Apart from heading the products liability department at the firm, he and another partner had just published a book on that topic, of which he was proud.
He related to me that the firm had recently been retained to do a joint defense for 11 asbestos companies being sued by various plaintiffs. He stated, verbatim: "When a client like that walks in the door, we view that as the cow coming into the barn to be milked."
He'll be here all week! Try your waitperson, tip the veal!
Whatever the outcome, I'm prepared to be OUTRAGED
Well according to the Daily Mail a redacted verion of the affidavit is to be released next week.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11124613/Huge-security-outside-federal-courthouse-ahead-decision-unsealing-Mar-Lago-raid-affidavit.html
No, that's not what the Daily Mail article says. This is like a game of telephone. I'm not sure why one would rely on the Daily Fail, but in this case, it did get it right, but what it said was that the judge gave indications he might order such a release. Not that it is "is to be released."
Forgive my haste. In any event, even if it is released you would need X-ray vision to make any sense of it.
That seems likely.
The DOJ's argument was "Yeah, we could release a redacted one, but there's no point, because so much would have to be redacted as to make it meaningless." So the judge seems to be calling their bluff and saying, "Prove it. Show me what you would want to redact."
From EV's most recent post:
From today's court order:
THIS CAUSE is before the Court on motions to unseal the search warrant materials, including the probable cause affidavit, that were filed by the Media-Intervenors. ECF Nos. 4, 6, 9, 20, 22, 23, 30-33. Today I held a hearing on the motions. As I ruled from the bench at the conclusion of the hearing, I find that on the present record the Government has not met its burden of showing that the entire affidavit should remain sealed.
It is ORDERED that by noon EST on Thursday, August 25, 2022, the Government shall file under seal its proposed redactions along with a legal memorandum setting forth the justification for the proposed redactions. It is FURTHER ORDERED that ECF No. 57 shall be unsealed by the Clerk of Court.
The brief (if it is this one seems to be top-shelf work, although not necessarily persuasive with respect to the compromised investigation and threat/harassment issues, whose soft-pedaling seems to indicate a recognition of weakness.
I expect a redaction battle (fought either by the media intervenors, perhaps counterproductively, or by a Trump ally such as Judicial Watch, almost certainly reflexively and sloppily) to be the more interesting and consequential chapter.
Huh? That's a 2016 filing.