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Fourth Circuit amicus brief on Maryland handgun licensing law
Legal history before 1900 provides no support for licensing or training mandates for keeping an arm at home
Today Joseph Greenlee and I filed an amicus brief in the Fourth Circuit case Maryland Shall Issue v. Hogan. Our brief is on behalf of the Firearms Policy Coalition Action Foundation (where he works) and Independence Institute (the Denver think tank where I work).
The case had previously appeared in the Fourth Circuit in 2020, when a panel ruled that a licensed firearms dealer had standing to challenge Maryland's 2013 handgun licensing law, and that the dealer also had third party standing on behalf of customers. 971 F.3d 199 (4th Cir. 2020). Now, the case has returned on the merits. The Maryland Attorney General denied consent for filing of the amicus brief, so we will wait to see whether the Fourth Circuit accepts it.
Under a 2013 Maryland statute, a state-issued Handgun Qualification License (HQL), which requires range training, is necessary to purchase, rent, or receive a handgun. This is on top of the pre-existing system requiring a "Maryland State Police Application and Affidavit to Purchase a Regulated Firearm" (MSP 77R). And of course on top of the background check required by federal law for all firearms purchases in gun stores. According to the complaint, applying for a HQL takes a month, and necessitates "hundreds of dollars in fees, costs and travel, not counting time off of work."
The amicus brief straightforwardly applies the Supreme Court's test for Second Amendment cases, as recently stated in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen
When the Second Amendment's plain text covers an individual's conduct, the Constitution presumptively protects that conduct. The government must then justify its regulation by demonstrating that it is consistent with the Nation's historical tradition of firearm regulation. Only then may a court conclude that the individual's conduct falls outside the Second Amendment's unqualified command.
Here, the case involves keeping a handgun in the home, which is certainly protected by the Second Amendment. The government bears the burden of proving that the HQL "is consistent with the Nation's historical tradition of firearm regulation."
In Bruen, the Court stated that history from the original periods (1791 for the Second Amendment, 1868 for the Fourteenth, which made the Second Amendment enforceable against the states) are most important. Colonial history is relevant, as is English history to the extent that it reflected an unbroken tradition that was adopted by the colonists and in force during the Founding Era. The nineteenth century is also relevant, with the first part of the century being most important, and the latter part of considerably less (but not zero) significance. Anything after 1900 is far too late to establish a tradition contrary to the constitutional text.
In the Maryland Shall Issue amicus brief, we describe in chronological order all pre-1900 licensing laws for gun possession. Such laws did exist, but only for people who were considered not to have civil rights: slaves (who were either blacks or Indians) or free people of color (again, blacks or Indians). Antebellum courts that upheld these laws expressly stated that they would be unconstitutional if applied to the white population. Aldridge v. Commonwealth, 4 Va. 447, 449 (1824); State v. Newsom, 27 N.C. 250, 252 (1844).
The Fourteenth Amendment and the Civil Rights Act got rid of all the gun possession licensing laws. No such law was enacted thereafter in the United States in the nineteenth century, except for an 1893 Florida statute. That statute made it unlawful to "own a Winchester or other repeating rifle" without a license from the County Commissioners; the license required an exorbitant bond.
As Florida Supreme Court Justice Rivers H. Buford later explained, the licensing law "was passed . . . for the purpose of disarming the negro laborers" in the state and "was never intended to be applied to the white population." Watson v. Stone, 148 Fla. 516, 524 (1941) (Buford, J., concurring). Justice Buford noted that "there had never been any effort to enforce the provisions of this statute as to white people, because it has been generally conceded to be in contravention of the Constitution and non-enforceable if contested." Id.
So the number of valid pre-1900 precedents for licensing home possession of a firearm is zero. While Bruen allows analogical reasoning (rather than simply copying valid gun control laws from pre-1900), here there is nothing on which to base an analogy.
The precedent for a training requirement for home possession is also non-existent. There is no question that a state government can train the militia. U.S. Constitution, Art. I, sect. 8, cl. 16 ("reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress"); Md. Const. art. IX, § 1 ("The General Assembly shall make, from time to time, such provisions for organizing, equipping and disciplining the Militia, as the exigency may require, and pass such Laws to promote Volunteer Militia organizations as may afford them effectual encouragement.").
The HQL, however, applies to everyone in Maryland, not solely militia members. And the training requirements do not involve militia skills, such as perimeter defense by a group. Historically, training was not a precondition to possession of an arm for militia duty. Rather, the statutes required militiamen to possess certain arms (typically, a long gun and an edged weapon), and to bring those arms to training whenever the government scheduled militia training.
Notably, in many colonies and states, the government also required ownership of the same arms by people who were not in the militia. These included men with occupational exemptions (e.g., physicians), men who were too old for the militia, and females who were heads of households.
Additionally, many statutes required arms carrying by everyone engaging in certain activities, such as traveling, going to public meetings, going to church, going to court, or working in the fields. These requirements applied regardless of sex or household status.
Notably, there were no training requirements at all for non-militia who were legally required to possess the same arms as the militia. No state or colony before 1900 imposed any rule making training a prerequisite to keeping a firearm at home.
Therefore, the amicus brief suggests that the training requirement of Maryland's Handgun Qualification License is unconstitutional.
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Arguing against sensible gun safety laws is one way gun nuts will hasten the demise of anything-goes gun laws arranged by conservatives, especially in educated, modern, advanced states.
Hitching their political wagon to the wrong side of the history and the losing side of the culture war, of course, will be more consequential. The fate of gun absolutists is destined to resemble that of anti-abortion absolutists as modern America continues to progress.
Rev. See you next Tuesday.
The Second Amendment does not privilege hunting nor target shooting. It privileges the killing of little tyrant bitches, Sweets. It came in handy in the War of 1812. It may again.
It would certainly help if those proposing sensible gun safety laws stopped labeling the ridiculous as sensible.
What's ridiculous about requiring a license for certain types of firearms?
Requiring a license is not necessarily "ridiculous" but it is "ineffective", "chilling of the exercise of an enumerated right" and "unconstitutional". It's every bit as bad an idea as proposing to require an expensive license before you can buy a computer or vote.
With respect, all this appears to show how dumb the historical standard is. There were licensing laws! You provided examples of such! They were racist? Yeah, but now conservatives are complaining that this law doesn't count because racism? Give me a break.
What should be relevant, historically speaking, is that when the 2nd amendment was written, what did the public understand those words to mean, in the context of how to balance public safety, firearm ownership, and firearms as a political tool.
That then gets applied to laws as they are today. That seems like proper originalism. This business of trying to find comparable restrictions is just so stupid. The context is completely different!
In the first amendment, we apply the principle, we don't start looking for comparable laws. Because we might find the sedition act! Right? I just, these people are highly educated, and ...
The people back then -- as illustrated in the quotes from judicial decisions -- believed those words meant that states could pass laws to disarm minorities, but those laws would be unconstitutional if applied to whites. That's the legal thinking that you endorse.
The legal thinking is dicta from a Florida Supreme Court Justice. There is no evidence that it would be unconstitutional. The piece later goes on to say that milita members can face training requirements ...
No I dont "endorse" said legal reasoning, stop putting things in bad faith. Its annoying. But you can't have a system where you must find the law from the 1800s ... and then when you do, oh its racist you can't use it.
Like seriously? Do you think, legally speaking, that's a workable standard? Or are you willing to accept any argument, no matter how ridiculous, as long as it advances your policy views?
Because no one has stated how this is supposed to work. And if applied to the first amendment, the first amendment would not exist because of the sedition act.
You did endorse that thinking -- "What should be relevant, historically speaking, is that when the 2nd amendment was written, what did the public understand those words to mean". They understood the words to mean what I said.
There were a boatload of laws from the 1800s that American courts, and the general public, now recognize as unconstitutional because of their racist objectives. I count those gun-control laws -- which, again, were only meant to be enforced against minorities -- as examples of such invalid laws. It is a straightforward application of the Fourteenth Amendment's first section. You seem to disagree, although you do not explain what part is difficult.
"There were a boatload of laws from the 1800s that American courts, and the general public, now recognize as unconstitutional because of their racist objectives."
Thats my point!!! As a result, we don't this sort of evidence in developing an originalist case! Yet the Supreme Court said in Bruen that you must, that it is the only evidence you are allowed to use! That is why this doesn't work.
Not all old laws were racist, so your argument falls apart. Or are you really a CRTer?
The racist laws were intended to infringe the right, for the people they were actually enforced against, and thus can't be read to define the scope of the right. While a law that was impartially administered would have been more indicative of what people thought the scope of the right actually was.
That doesn't strike me as an obscure point. I don't think it's entirely reliable, because sometimes authorities might have actually intended to infringe the right for everybody, thinking the courts wouldn't stop them. (You don't write bills of rights to prohibit actions you don't think anybody will try!) but that's why you also look at how widespread the given law was, on the assumption that such violative intent wouldn't have been universal.
The racist laws were intended to infringe the right, for the people they were actually enforced against, and thus can't be read to define the scope of the right.
As a matter of historical analysis, what we have there from Bellmore is a prime example of the perils of present-minded history.
Of course those laws contributed to defining the scope of the right. Looked at as a matter of history and tradition, an accurate historical inference might dismiss the now-prohibited racial context—or depending on the historic purpose of the analysis, it might not—while noting that laws were permitted to define the scope of the right according to needs felt variously in different locations. That is the accurate historical generalization you can take from that bit of history and tradition.
And there we have it: An admission of intent to treat everybody the way blacks were treated during Jim Crow.
Intent was unconstitutional, so law doesn't count. Enforcement was sometimes impartial, so that counts.
How value independent and objective!
It's not that it's obscure, Brett, it's that it's tautological. By deciding what's constitutional a priori, you get to add that into your analysis of what's constitutional. And presto you get the outcome you want.
I've already remarked that I think the approach adopted here has deficiencies, because it tries to use laws enacted by states that weren't bound by the 2nd amendment, and knew it, to determine the scope of the 2nd amendment.
That at least doesn't stop me from understanding the approach.
14A overrides that argument- nice try though
"now conservatives are complaining that this law doesn't count because racism?"
Gun rights people have been complaining for a long long time that gun control laws began for racist reasons. If you have only heard that now, it shows what a bubble you have been living in.
No I have heard that. Its just a dumb line of argumentation. The same can be said of lots of things. People on the right are so ardent against CRT, this whole thing is basically what that is.
And the response is exactly the same. Just because things happened in the past does NOT mean that one cannot support that thing for totally neutral reasons!
What part of "Just because things happened in the past does NOT mean that one cannot support that thing for totally neutral reasons!" do you think engages with any remotely fair paraphrasing of the viewpoint you disagree with? Do you see anyone here saying that we must never repeat anything from history ("things [that] happened in the past")?
Gun control laws DID begin for racist reasons. Ask Adam Winkler (https://newrepublic.com/article/112322/gun-control-racist), even if you choose to ignore gun-rights advocate like https://www.cagunrights.org/californias-first-gun-control-law-the-racist-roots-and-evolution-of-the-gun-control-movement .
Sigh. It simply doesn't matter if it began with racist intentions or not. I accept for the sake of argument that they did, though I have no idea if it is true or not. You keep reciting set talking points ... I am not defending gun control or opposing it. I am saying the courts standard being advanced in this blog post is stupid. You have not said anything to say the standard is not stupid. You don't seem to understand the legal argument the court advanced in Bruen. You keep going to the political issue which. I. dont. care. about because this is a legal blog and I want to have a legal conversation.
You don't seem to understand that I could make a case that school choice started for racist reasons, therefore we can't do it. Or really any law for that matter. If you happen to support critical race theory, by all means keep making it. But I dont, so I reject this entire line of argumentation as stupid and idiotic. If you want to defend CRT go ahead but I dont think you do.
The standard identified by Bruen is not stupid. Your argument, on the other hand, is stupid.
The fact that many laws were made unconstitutional by the Fourteenth Amendment does not mean that is true of every such law. The fact that legislatures have passed many unconstitutional laws does not mean that we must accept them because legislatures are supposed to pass laws. The fact that you keep bringing up CRT suggests that you are obsessed with it.
Are you happy now?
" You don't seem to understand that I could make a case that school choice started for racist reasons, therefore we can't do it. "
You are not the audience the Volokh Conspiracy is looking for.
Maybe you should clarify what you mean. It sounds a lot like you are saying "Bruen says we can only consider certain old laws, but those laws are racist, so Bruen says we can't consider them, and that's not fair". Maybe IANAL and just don't understand what you mean. Please clarify for me and others.
"Bruen says we can only consider certain old laws, but those laws are racist, so Bruen says we can't consider them, and that's not fair"
That is what I am saying, but I would clarify that Bruen didn't say we can't consider them, but Koppel appears to be.
My broader issue is that Bruen didn't didn't really provide any guidance as to what counts and doesn't, the very case at issue cited 3 instances of evidence and then went on to say 3 is too small. Then what number is ok? 10? 15?
I would be far more comfortable with an understanding of what the 2nd amendment means from first originalist principles, then apply tiers of scrutiny. Like everything else. And if the lower courts abuse it, like they did, just ... reverse them. This law finding expedition, and then the laws that are found are rejected for arbitrary reasons, seems kinda dumb.
I think you would need to consider laws that would be constitutional, if looking at old laws.
Laws that would specifically only apply to one section of the population that didn't have citizenship rights (or were designed to prevent full citizenship rights) to part of the population are poor laws to consider (for multiple reasons), when upholding current restrictions to the population as a whole.
Armchair, what if you can prove by historical investigation of case outcomes that laws which purport to empower a right to guns for everyone were in practice understood only to empower a right to guns for a privileged minority?
Can that proof be part of the analysis, or can you throw it out because it doesn't take you where you want to go? For instance, can you say that case results proof can't possibly apply, because we know the original understanding was that gun rights were guaranteed for everyone—even though there is zero historical proof of that, and even though it assumes an answer to the question under consideration, so the assertion begs the question?
When Virginia passed a a law in 1792 forbidding "negroes or mulattos" from possessing any gun or club I really doubt they envisioned someone 230 years later saying "We're all mulattos now."
Dred Scott is also part of our history. It has never been overturned by SCOTUS (although it may be mooted by the 13th Amendment).
According to Breyer's stare decisis logic, SCOTUS decisions are superior to the Constitution, and thus Dred Scott should still be considered the law of the land.
I don't believe that's anyone's logic, much less Breyer's. To what are you referring here?
"Additionally, many statutes required arms carrying by everyone engaging in certain activities, such as traveling, going to public meetings, going to church, going to court, or working in the fields. These requirements applied regardless of sex or household status."
Did these statues require training for carrying arms about in public.
As the article already says (in the second paragraph from the bottom), no they did not require training.
2nd from bottom says "possess" not bear. I do not think that there was any special requirements expected to "bear" either, but I have not read the statues except as they were referenced in Bruen briefs.
Since the "you can own it but that doesn't mean you can carry it anyplace you'd actually need it" argument is less than a decade old, I think we can say with confidence that there were no such training requirements. But I haven't read every one of the statutes either.
No.
"Notably, there were no training requirements at all for non-militia who were legally required to possess the same arms as the militia."
But there were training requirements for the milita, and the constitution does say, "a well regulated militia ..."
Not quite. The "training" was drilling, moving in formation, etc. Not: learning how to shoot. People were expected to show up with a rifle, a pistol, and sufficient ammo, and already know how to use the firearm.
A more persuasive argument might be: Well, in 1800 people learned to shoot from their parents and siblings, now they don't.
If the state is going to mandate training it needs to be objective. So for example, if I can already demonstrate firearms proficiency, I should not have to sit through 4 hours. In that respect, MD is less onerous than some requirements because MD accepts proof of prior ownership of a pistol or a DNR hunter safety card in lieu of the training. It still is essentially just a hoop to jump through.
And: if the state is going to mandate training, their needs to be a free public option. If you want to put gun ranges back in D.C. schools, I would be fine with that plan. Yes, its true, schools used to have gun ranges: https://nypost.com/2018/03/31/when-toting-guns-in-high-school-was-cool/
And by the way: "bear" has equal footing as "keep." There is no magic about the 16 hours MD requires for the Wear and Carry permit. I went through it, shot 100% on my qual, wasted a weekend and learned very little. Most of the people in the class brought their own gun and holster and passed the qual at the end.
Like the HQL, the training is just a hoop to jump through to attempt to ration permits, not training in any meaningful sense.
I support training... but if you mandate it, be careful what you wish form. NRA will then be taking state money so to train people to ensure that there is a free public option for training.
But in terms of training, especially in high schools and such, California is actually going the opposite direction, making it effectively impossible to train young people how to shoot.
Well, that's because the California government's goal actually IS to infringe the right to keep and bear arms, and at least in part for exactly the reason the 2nd amendment was adopted to prohibit: To abolish an armed citizenry as a constraint on government action.
Obviously Congress under the Article 1 militia clause can mandate training for the militia, and I suppose it could be fairly rigorous, but what they would have to do is apply it to the entire militia, armed or unarmed, pink and purple hair as well as blonde and black.
But I doubt they could discriminate and say only those that wanted to bear arms unconnected to militia service had to undergo training.
Kazinski — Why not, if militia service implied training separate from the non-militia-member program?
From a militia perspective, what you can do is require people to train, and require them to own guns. That derives from the militia clauses. What you can't do from a 2nd amendment, militia centric perspective, is require people to train TO own guns.
It would be like requiring people to take rigorous 1st aid training in order to buy a 1st aid kit, and claiming you were doing it to promote widespread availability of emergency services. Wouldn't pass the laugh test.
The first paragraph is the Swiss who also require military service to affect that training..
After service they keep the gun. Basically everyone is armed.
Historical sources indicate that the founding fathers specifically had the Swiss model in mind. The problem is that it proved impossible to sustain public support for it without the Swiss situation: A small neutral country surrounded by potential adversaries, that actually needed pretty much every man armed to be secure.
I've sometimes thought we might tap an alternative motivation, though, to restore the militia system: Make it the basis of a widespread sports competition.
What you can't do from a 2nd amendment, militia centric perspective, is require people to train TO own guns.
I suspect that is nonsense, but taking it as true for the sake of discussion, so what? From an Article 1 centric perspective you could do it, to increase citizen readiness to bolster the militia in time of need.
How about this. Those of us who believe in the 2nd A but also believe the state has a duty to determine that guns must be handled safely and responsibly will agree that requiring licenses and training is unconstitutional since there is no history prior to 1900 of that policy, but that the unconstitutional designation only applies to weapons made and available prior to 1900.
See if you want to invoke the 1900 cut off, that's fine as long as it is evenly and fairly invoked, meaning that it applies to what life was like in the 19th century.
But of course those who support the lack of safety regulations for firearms will have to live with the carnage that goes with it, the deaths of tens of thousands of children since 1900, the rise in crime due to the easy access to weapons and the horror that befalls the families of both perpertrators and victims of accidental shootings. But then to be fair those advocating unrestricted access to guns have shown they can live with that, as long as other people are dying for their so-called freedom.
The strange thing about state mandated training is that we have typically 12 years of state mandated education and also federally recommended curriculum standards, yet its still hard to find people in the comments section who can assemble accurate facts and make a persuasive argument.
By the same logic, there would be no First Amendment rights regarding the Internet, or even printing presses invented very recently.
Which shows how little your logic is worth.
Are you okay with limiting your First Amendment rights to only tools and technologies made and available prior to 1900? The government can seize your computer or arbitrarily censor your internet service? Are you going to argue that because GPS wasn't invented then, the Fourth Amendment doesn't protect you from having a tracker forcibly implanted in your arm? How many other rights are you going to sacrifice in your irrational crusade against guns?
You can replace "guns" with "COVID," "global warming," "racism," "inequality," etc., etc.
It's almost as if taking away people's rights is the goal, for which they ("liberals" / "progressives") adopt whatever excuse comes to hand.
I'd like to consider your idea. Can you please write it out on parchment with a quill pen and have it delivered to me buy someone on horseback?
Oh and for those of you wondering where all those people who were protesting the demonstrations at the houses of Justices who supported overturning Roe have gone, we now know where they are.
They are planning massive, maybe violent protests at the judge who approved the search warrant for Donnie's hiding places for the documents he stole from the government. Per Taegan Goddard.
“Multiple members of these toxic online communities are even posting what appears to be Judge Bruce Reinhart’s home address, phone numbers, and names of his family members alongside threats of extreme violence.”
Yep, right out of the best seller, "Hypocrisy for Dummies".
The problem with setting, defending and enabling problematic precedents is that other people turn them around soon enough. Maybe your side should stop doing that.
I don't have a side. Well I do have a side, it is that if you want to apply one principle to a position you favor, in order to have any credibility, have anyone take you seriously you kinda need to apply that principle consistently.
If not, you are not a serious commentator. So if harrassment and threats and attacks against Justice Kavanaugh because you do not like his decision is wrong, so is harassment, threats and attacks against any judges because you don't like their decisions.
See that's not so difficult to understand, is it?
If you didn't have a side you would have a serious comment.
They are planning massive, maybe violent protests at the judge who approved the search warrant for Donnie's hiding places for the documents he stole from the government. Per Taegan Goddard.
You baselessly claim Trump stole documents. In reality he was shipped the documents by the Government. The GSA packed the boxes. You are perpetuating a hoax.
Riots are also wrong. But people who encourage them to continue, and sit by for months as riots happen over and over again, have no room to complain when people riot against causes they favor.
Likewise protests outside judges' houses or a restaurant where they are eating or the like: the Biden administration acts as though there are no laws against it. Leftist agitators do it with impunity, so it's no surprise if fringe elements on the right will try the same. I expect the Garland DOJ will enforce the laws in a politically uneven manner in this case too.
The startling development of the last couple of years is that it turns out that the right is also capable of behaving badly, once they come to the conclusion, watching the left, that it works. I don't cheer for this development, because the left in response will behave even more badly, to keep their advantage, and they don't have a lot of room to get worse and not resume outright terrorism.
It would be interesting to see. Apparently trespassing is not OK on J6 but A-OK with arson and looting added on for other causes.
Lots of video of this happening but no FBI manhunt. Perplexing isn't it?
Reason won't even talk about it being the bastion of civil rights that they are.
But Garland and the left in general really have no hypocrisy limit.
"Legal history before 1900 provides no support for licensing or training mandates for keeping an arm at home."
Damn, reading every piece of legal history before 1900 must have been really time consuming.
Isn't that what interns are for? Unless you're Bill Clinton, I mean.
QuantumBoxCat — dwb68 has been spouting made-up history. He has no better idea what the founding era past was like than did Scalia, Alito or Kopel. In fairness, my guess is that dwb68 is just repeating what others have told him, or drawing inferences from TV shows. That's how most folks who are sure of this nation's earlier history got their ideas. Maybe dwb68 just reads the likes of Kopel, and assumes that's good history. Kopel is a gun advocate, not a historian.
One additional point is worth mentioning, since you remarked on legal history. Legal history is not enough, unless your only interest is finding a precedent for a particular legal case. If you want to claim originalist insight to guide legal philosophy—to support a history and tradition argument, for instance—then you need much more than mere legal history.
The founding era was notably different than our own, and many of the differences remain tacit in the legal record. That means you can find in colonial history in America, or in English history, all kinds of legal pronouncements which sound universal, but which were not meant to apply except to a small minority of especially-high-status people—with status defined variously in different times and at different places. Or conversely, you find pronouncements which applied generally, but with tacit exceptions for high-status people. Folks who just read old laws and suppose what the laws say tells you how society worked long ago are naive about historical methods, and are mostly misinformed about what happened in the past.
A further note. Claims made in comments above, about how early firearms regulations were made for racist reasons, are partly true, but more generally spurious. Racism (or institutional protection for slavery) is a partial explanation, applicable in some times and some places. It did not apply to all such laws.
Curious what part you think I am making up lol. I mean we have the 1791 milita acts which literally mandated that people show up with a rifle and pistol and sufficient ammo. The amusing part about the militia acts is that Progressives cited it in support of federal mandates when they defended Obamacare.
dwb68, if you walked into any graduate history seminar and said, "Here is what happened. We can tell by reading these laws," you would be laughed out the door.
Only lawyers think the texts of laws provide much useful information about the past (but for lawyers' typically narrow purposes, that can be true). Historians struggle to get past the laws, and explain what happened in response to them, or in defiance of them, or despite them, or because nobody even knew they applied.
To impress me with insight into the 1791 militia acts, you would have to get busy with a major research project. Find out, were the mandates you mention uniformly heeded, sometimes obeyed, honored mainly in the breach, or impossible to comply with for many—for practical reasons or for other reasons? How did that compliance picture vary from colony to colony? What about compliance variations among citizens on the frontiers, vs those in the few cities and far more numerous towns? For how long were those acts treated as current and binding? Did that compliance interval vary from place to place? What accounted for any place-related variations? Did experience variations among times and places affect policies or important historical decisions? What became of those militia acts? Were they dropped all at once for some reason? Did they remain in effect in some locations, while becoming disused in others? What would explain any such differences?
Only someone who had done scholarship capable of answering questions such as those (and many more), and who had earned the respect of historian peers for the extensive research required, would be capable of answering with even cautious authority the kinds of questions Kopel pretends to answer with far more assurance than any trained historian would venture—for example Kopel's naive assertion that prior to 1900 there were no licensing laws anywhere except the racist ones he seeks to dismiss.
Had Kopel done colony-by-colony, state-by-state, county-by-county, city-by-city, town-by-town, archival research sufficient to draw such a sweeping conclusion, you would see it in his citations. He has done no such thing, (nor has anyone else), and thus does not know what he is talking about. If progressives make similar historically naive claims, they risk likewise being wrong for the same reasons.
History is practiced as an activity, with accustomed methods proved by long experience to deliver more accurate inferences about the past than other more-error-prone methods which have been tried previously and discarded. One such discarded method was mentioned above in this thread, and is actually affirmed in both Dobbs and Bruen. It is framed here as an assumption that historical figures who lived closer in time to historical events were thus better equipped to understand them than we who live later. Professional historical experience has debunked that notion. Archives improve over time. Historical critiques winnow chaff. Today's historians know the past better than did their forebears. Tomorrow's historians will know the past better still.
Thus, historical activity is about applying tested methods in detail to the vast trove of survivals from the past which comprise the historical record. The work remains laborious, time consuming, and fact-intensive—and above all, cumulative.
If you do not even know the methods used for that work, as almost all lawyers and judges do not—and needless to say, have thus never practiced the actual activity which comprises the work of a historian—then you should not be attempting to set yourself up as an authority about the past. People who do that make fools of themselves. But they tend not to find out about it because few people they know are any better informed than they are. That, in a nutshell, has been the fate of the Supreme Court's most famous originalist decision writers.
Perhaps that is what academic history once was (or at least once aspired to be), but it is hardly an accurate description of what academic historians usually do today. But they often pretend to for the same reasons that you find so disqualifying in lawyers using an historical approach.
KRB — Regardless of what you think of present-day historians, do you agree that Bruen's review of history and tradition does not see that standard?
"meet" not "see"
Stephen, I respectively think you "protest too much".
Your observations are well-taken if a study pretends to consider all factors — sociological, geographical, cultural, religious, economic, and many others — in the subject context. But most of this is irrelevant here and in numerous like issues.
The subject Kopel is addressing is statutes promulgated by various government bodies, since the case and brief contest whether the Maryland requirements are justified. Ergo, it is prior statutes that are the relevant evidence. Further, since it is the States that possess the authority to impose such regulations that may be required, "county-by-county, city-by-city, town-by-town, archival research" is irrelevant.
The type of research you suggest would well be interesting and invaluable — for certain purposes. But is not necessary, or even pertinent, for the purpose of contesting the Maryland requirement.
Further, since it is the States that possess the authority to impose such regulations that may be required, "county-by-county, city-by-city, town-by-town, archival research" is irrelevant.
Smith_FT_MI — Thank you for at least taking the question seriously. What gives you confidence that historical America, at all times and in all places, worked legally as you describe in that quote above? Would you acknowledge that remark of yours as a question requiring proof by historical research? Or are you willing to presume it without proof, because you can read the language of a statute or a state constitution?
Suppose that as a matter of fact the statutes Kopel considered do not capture the full range of statutory limitations on guns actually enacted, perhaps because in prior times the ability or inclination of states to limit, for instance, city or county regulations was less rigorously observed than at present. Is that a subject a history and tradition argument needs to consider, or should it be ignored?
Suppose that as a matter of fact that research could show statutes which did get enacted did not accurately accord with gun-restrictive decisions routinely handed down by local magistrates—perhaps because local magistrates interpreted gun liberty to be a privilege freely afforded to high-status persons, but withheld at discretion from others. If that was widespread, customary practice, although statutory language read literally said otherwise, does it matter for history and tradition that the actual practice in society was not in accord with the language of the statutes?
I mention that last question especially because it is undoubtedly a fact that legal practice in England during the American colonial era, and afterward, did work like that.
I think it probable that at least in the more socially authoritarian parts of America, especially in the South, that legal tradition was long observed, and not merely as a protection against slave revolts. Bacon's rebellion made a lasting impression, and notably affected colonial administration in Virginia. Consider this, from Wikipedia:
Thousands of Virginians from all classes (including those in indentured servitude) and races rose up in arms against [Governor] Berkeley, chasing him from Jamestown and ultimately torching the settlement. The rebellion was first suppressed by a few armed merchant ships from London whose captains sided with Berkeley and the loyalists. Government forces arrived soon after and spent several years defeating pockets of resistance and reforming the colonial government to be once more under direct Crown control.
Bacon's rebellion was the first rebellion in the North American colonies in which discontented frontiersmen took part (a somewhat similar uprising in Maryland involving John Coode and Josias Fendall took place shortly afterward). The alliance between European indentured servants and Africans (a mix of indentured, enslaved, and Free Negroes) disturbed the colonial upper class. They responded by hardening the racial caste of slavery in an attempt to divide the two races from subsequent united uprisings with the passage of the Virginia Slave Codes of 1705
Note that, "racial caste of slavery," was far from the only application of caste in George Washington's Virginia. Especially on a question involving privileges to arms, Washington would never have been treated in any Virginia court as an equal of some propertyless white laborer who less than a century previously might have marched with Bacon. Does that undoubted fact matter in interpreting American legal history and tradition, or should it be ignored, because language used in some statutes implies otherwise?
Lathrop: "What gives you confidence that historical America, at all times and in all places, worked legally as you describe in that quote above?"
I'm fairly confident it didn't. I'm also positive it didn't matter. We are supposed to be a nation of laws. Therefore the laws themselves are what matter. And if certain laws were unevenly applied would be struck down today for racist or sexist or LBQT animus then they shouldn't be used to support similar laws today.
This isn't the "gotcha" that you seem to think it is. It's possible proof that some (most?) people's rights were honored in the breach if at all. I don't want that. Rights shouldn't be for the connected or the popular. They should be for everyone. Even if I disagree with them.
Mosley — Nothing you say in that comment addresses at all the question, "How extensive is the right?" Which is exactly the question the history and tradition argument is advanced to address. Perhaps you think that issue need not be addressed either, because you insist the right is absolute, and not subject to any limitations. If so, that puts you in a small, unwise minority among Americans. If not, then please try to join the discussion about where the appropriate boundaries of the right should be drawn.
Firearms training is a double edged sword. Classic example is one of the Parkland vics was shot three times by the perp and survived. Not to mention how many times drive by shootings have involved dozen of rounds being fired with no one being hit; or even worse bystanders (often small children) who were not the target being killed. Do we really want these guys to face mandatory training so they would be better shooters and kill or injure more vics.
On the other hand there are also plenty of what I will call Darwin's law events. At one BLM protest one of the armed protestors shot himself due to what appeared to be lack of knowledge on how firearms work. Who can forget Alex Balwin shooting the assistant director/camerman due to plain stupidity on his part. As others have posted public education has often failed to produce graduates who can read, write, or compute on even the most basic level so what makes anyone thing firearms training would produce safe competent gun owners.
" As others have posted public education has often failed to produce graduates who can read, write, or compute on even the most basic level "
Do you prefer nonsense-based private schools, as most gullible clingers seem to prefer?
It must really sting conservatives to know that America's strongest teaching and research institutions are operated by and for the liberal-libertarian mainstream, while nearly all conservative-controlled campuses are fourth-tier (or unranked), dogma-enforcing, nonsense-teaching yahoo factories.
Now I remember why I keep turning on the mute. It's not just that you're a troll, it's that you're boring and repetitive.
If you had a drinking game for every time he says the word clinger you'd last maybe a half hour on here.
Is he still doing the allusions to oral rape? I've had him muted for so long now, I think he's the 2nd person I ever muted here.
He was my first to be muted. Which is sad because he used to occasionally post something worth reading. Those days are long gone though.
If you didn't like repetitive content, you wouldn't be at the Volokh Conspiracy.
At another BLM protest, a guy was attacked and took out three perps without any collateral damage. I think his name was Kyle or something
So the number of valid pre-1900 precedents for licensing home possession of a firearm is zero. While Bruen allows analogical reasoning (rather than simply copying valid gun control laws from pre-1900), here there is nothing on which to base an analogy.
Um, 1900 was 122 years ago—encompassing an interval greater than half the nation's history since ratification. On what principle, other than, "That is the era with the laws we want to get rid of," is that part of the nation's history ruled out of bounds?
The Bruen history and tradition analysis is a historical disgrace.
On what principle, other than, "That is the era with the laws we want to get rid of," is that part of the nation's history ruled out of bounds?
If you want to understand what something means, you go with what it was understood to mean at the time it was written. It's not ruled "out of bounds". It's ruled "irrelevant" as it is much later compared to when the amendment was written.
Do you think freedom of the press only applies to the printing press and not hand written documents? Do you think it doesn't apply to speech?
Shall the 27th amendment be ruled invalid because later amendments had a sunset clause?
BillyG, you have missed the point entirely. The point discussed is not about original understanding. It is the different argument about history and tradition, upon which Bruen places notable emphasis. Unfortunately, Bruen cherry-picks which parts of history and tradition it wants to consider.
Bruen does that for a reason. Analysis of original understanding made according to academic historical principles comes out lopsidedly on the side of the militia clause. There is literally not one founding era citation known to show original understanding of the 2A included a purpose to protect in the federal constitution a right of personal self-defense. What the record pertaining to the Constitution lacks in the way of original understanding, vague alternative references to history and tradition cannot supply.
Note carefully what that says, and what it does not say. It does not say that at the time of the founding there was not support in founding era history and tradition for a right to personal self-defense with a firearm. It just says that protection of that right was not then an acknowledged purpose of the federal constitution. If it had been, there would be some historical citation to show it. The record is replete with citations to show the militia purpose. The record has been ransacked by gun advocates in a search to show a citation for the self-defense purpose, and that effort has come up empty.
Had anything like that ever been found, it would of course have become the central theme of the Heller decision, but it is not there. That lack of historical citations on point for any purpose but the militia purpose is why gun advocates have turned instead to history and tradition arguments. Those cast a wider net than original understanding arguments, while still seeming to some to be respectably originalist.
Problem is, if you want to practice history and tradition arguments honestly, you can't cherry pick them. You have to take your history whole. If more than half of U.S. history since ratification shows the kind of gun controls the Court wants to ban, it is not intellectually honest to try to cook up some reason to ignore that half—not without any citation available to show specifically what you assert—that there was an original understanding to make the U.S. Constitution a guardian of a right to self-defense with a firearm.
Bruen cherry picks brutally. It is a purpose-built historical farce.
"There is literally not one founding era citation known to show original understanding of the 2A included a purpose to protect in the federal constitution a right of personal self-defense."
Self defense would have been a classic 9th amendment right. But once you protect the right to be armed in order to preserve the militia system, it is available for all lawful purposes.
I agree that the 2nd amendment was adopted with the militia in mind, very clearly: The idea was that, if you protected a private right to be armed in the manner of the militia, it would always be possible to raise a militia in an emergency, even if the government set out to get rid of the militia system. Like all "rights", this one aims at protecting against wrongful action by government, the wrongful action in this case is attempts to render a militia impossible to raise by disarming the people.
The modern Court, aside from perhaps Thomas, wants to downplay that, because they're not comfortable with the real purpose of the 2nd amendment, protecting a private right to own military arms. I like to say that Stevens was trying to kill the right, Scalia was content to neuter it.
Yes, there's not explicit statement the 2a is for self defense. So what? There's nothing in the 1a that says it's for porn.
Either the 2a says I can keep and bear arms or it doesn't. Intent is irrelevant.
BillyG — We are trying to figure out on the basis of history and tradition whether the 2A says what you think it does. In that context, depending on the evidence found, your intent may turn out to be highly relevant. Or, to save your insistence as it is, maybe you should dismiss Bruen, and find some other way to justify your unwise pro-gun absolutism.
Most of the 20th century was a long march of novel doctrines about the Constitution. To understand the original public meaning of the Constitution, one needs to look to times closer to the original.
Note to David Kopel: IT'S THE 21ST CENTURY. WHO THE FUCK CARES WHAT THEY DID IN PREVIOUS CENTURIES?!?
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana, supposedly (also: "A country without a memory is a country of madmen.")
There's a difference between not remembering and not caring.
Yes, there is a difference: ignorance can be remedied.
cool. So the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 6th are no longer valid either because of technology. Please hand me your phone so I can search it for propaganda, you have no first amendment right to an opinion or privacy.
Its a dumb, repeatedly rejected argument, yet people keep making it.
There is a solution: If you don't agree with the 2nd amendment, try to have it repealed.
I know. It's like they can't read. Just read the document and follow what it says.
If you don't like what it says it provides a method for changing it. Then do that.
Oh wait your ideas are not popular enough to affect the change. Sorry that's a feature.
Um...what?!?
The 1st, 4th, 5th, and 6th are indeed still valid PRECISELY because we are NOT beholden to 18th century technological standards.
Sorry. I misunderstood. I didn't realize you were advocating for private, unfettered possession of M16s and other fully automatic weapons.
Let's go through it for the slow class:
Step 1 - A bunch of folks in the 18th century decide A is the law. They get very widespread consensus that A shall be the law.
Step 2 - Much later, a few folks in a subordinate jurisdiction push through law B. Other folks say "B is not allowed because it's preempted by A".
At this point, the people pushing for B have three options.
Option 1. Argue that B is allowed under A. And that is in fact what the first small group is saying - that there's an implied exception that was always in A that allows B. Figuring out whether that's true requires looking at history. Specifically, it turns on understanding what A meant to the people who gave it the overwhelming consensus and who put it at the top of the jurisdictional tree. And those people lived and wrote in the 18th and early 19th centuries. So if you want to argue for your implied exception, you need to actually show that it was always there. You can't just wave your hands and say 'these other recent people also think B's a good idea'.
Option 2. Use the orderly process the folks in the 18th century laid out and get the broad consensus necessary to repeal A.
Option 3. Do what the folks in the 18th century actually did - hold a revolution and start over from scratch.
So unless you're willing to do the hard work of options 2 or 3, you're stuck with option 1 and it's requirement to actually understand history.
The Constitution is not a statute.
Only in the sense that it represents a higher level of statutory law, requiring different procedures to alter, and trumping the regular level of statutes. Not otherwise, it is absolutely a form of statute, and binding in the same manner.
Just moreso.
Look at the Constitution. It is not written with in the form of a statute. It largely lacks the stilted but precise language of a statute, it is a different sort of document. Directive in some places, a very loose framework in others. It sometimes includes intent, sometimes not.
It is a vastly more agile document than a statute. Makes sense, as a government must be more adaptable than a single policy over the centuries. (Which makes those who think the only change agent are amendment fundamentally misunderstanding the original understanding of how constitutions worked).
This also means originalism is not obviously the way to go.
But even if that originalism your jam, the founding era was aware of Constitutions being different legal documents than statutes, and requiring different tools of interpretation.
Beyond the usual cannons, this means that (horizontal) precedent matters in a fundamentally different way than with a statute - it is something to be built upon, not just persuasive authority.
As Chief Justice Marshall famously wrote in 1819 in McCulloch v. Maryland, “we must never forget that it is a constitution we are expounding.”
" Look at the Constitution. It is not written with in the form of a statute. It largely lacks the stilted but precise language of a statute, it is a different sort of document. "
You are trying to reason -- with respect to legal analysis -- with the downscale, disaffected, delusional, bigoted rubes this white, male, right-wing blog has cultivated as any audience?
Where did I say that it is?
What I said was that it was the law - which it is.
Your attempt to distinguish it as "not a statute" is sophistry. Statutes written in 1789 also largely lacked the "stilted but precise" (except that it often isn't) language common to statutes today. Which makes your criticism of originalism uncompelling.
You are treating the Constitution's meaning as determinative and fixed, as it is for a statute.
It is neither of those two things. And this was understood about constitutions even in the founding [see Baude's positive turn originalism], so originalism won't save you here.
Yes, I am treating its meaning as determinative and fixed - as it is for every law. If you allow the law to "interpreted" at whim, you are back to the arbitrary, unpredictable and unjust 'rule of man'. I reject the position that any law (including the Constitution) is so wish-washy that it can be reinterpreted at will.
This. This is treating the Constitution as a statute.
There is plenty of middle ground between determinative and fixed and utterly arbitrary and unpredictable and can be interpreted at will - don't create a false choice.
Is the common law 'arbitrary, unpredictable and unjust?'
And that's why I said, yes, it's just a higher priority level of statute.
You want to treat it more like suggestions on how to do things. No. In practice, even if you declare it determinant and fixed, you're going to get some degree of arbitrary 'interpretation'; Explicitly inviting arbitrary interpretation guarantees you almost nothing but.
Would you please inform all of those in favor of affirmative action and reparations and other such things that this is the 21st century?
Thanks!
" Legal history before 1900 provides no support for licensing or training mandates for keeping an arm at home "
That is the unqualified declaration of a result-driven polemist, not a scholar.
The academic veneer at this right-wing blog has become vanishingly thin, consisting mainly of misappropriated franchises of some law schools that deserve better (despite questionable hiring decision).
Carry on, clingers.
You know what there is no historical support for? Giving marriage licenses to men whose idea of "love" is finishing in his partner's colon.
David, I appreciate your brief, have downloaded it, and will study it when opportunity allows — an effort that regrettably will probably be prolonged.
I have started a project to analyze Michigan law on Militia Training, beginning with the Northwest Ordinance and through 1903. My hypothesis is that the drilling required prior to the Militia Act of 1903 allowed winnowing out of those psychologically unqualified to be trusted w/ military arms. Thus, if the requirement was renewed for the Unorganized Militia it could potentially prevent some of the horrific incidents that have recently transpired.
This project is being constantly interrupted. Perhaps your work will shed sufficient light to simplify my task as well as motivate me to pursue it more-expeditiously.
What about the words “well regulated” do you not understand?
Do we have to keep getting this judge-made law wilth no warrant in the text or history of the Constitution, where advocates get to use their lifetime tenure to just inflict their opinions on society, with no accountability?