The Volokh Conspiracy
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Lies About Science, Government, Etc. in Specific Libel or Fraud Lawsuits
[I'm working on a draft article called When Are Lies Constitutionally Protected?, and I thought I'd serialize it here, since I still have plenty of time to improve it; I'd love to hear your thoughts on it! (All the posts about it will go into this thread.)] [UPDATE: The final paper has now been published by the Knight Institute.]
We see, then, that courts are generally allowed to determine whether a statement about an individual is true, or whether a statement said to government officials is true, or whether a statement aimed at getting money is true. They are generally not allowed to determine whether a statement about the government, or about history or science, is true (at least in the context of punishing speech, as opposed to litigating nonspeech claims). What happens, though, at the intersection of those two categories?
Say, for instance, that someone testifies before a grand jury—or even just tells government investigators—"I saw a police officer beat John Smith," even without any reference to a specific police officer. If a prosecutor believes that the witness knowingly lied, could such a statement lead to a perjury or false statement prosecution? Or say that someone makes the same claim in a fundraising letter ("Give money to the Anti-Police-Brutality Foundation, so we can deal with abuse such as the police beating of John Smith"). If a prosecutor or a consumer protection agency claims that the author knowingly lied, could such a statement lead to a fraud prosecution?
Or let's take an example of a speech that is not within an existing First Amendment exception, but that would likely be restrictable under intermediate scrutiny, the test adopted by the controlling Alvarez concurrence: Someone files an unsworn complaint with the police department, claiming the police beat him. If the prosecutor believes this is a knowing lie, could this lead to a prosecution for filing a false police report? (Three Justices of the Minnesota Supreme Court recently suggested the answer is "no."[1])
The same questions arise not just with statements alleging government misconduct, but also with statements about "history, the social sciences, the arts, and other matters of public concern." The government may not ban newspaper articles about whether or not human activity is warming the Earth, or about whether there are biological differences between the sexes' or races' cognitive faculties. But say that a scientist testifies in court that his study showed that there are or are not such biological differences (perhaps in supporting or opposing an argument that a disparity between an employer's workforce and its applicant pool stems from real differences in applicant quality and not from discrimination). Could he be prosecuted for perjury if there is evidence that he had deliberately falsified his research results?
Or say the scientist applies for a grant, or seeks contributions from the public, based on his claimed medical discoveries—could he be prosecuted for fraud if it is shown that he has admitted to friends that the discoveries are fake, or at least that the effects he claims are overstated? The Third Circuit, for instance, has held that a writer of a book about the Pope could be prosecuted for defrauding his publisher by falsely claiming to have conducted interviews with his subject. But several judges dissented, arguing that courts ought not pass judgment on the accuracy of claims in books, even when the falsehoods were seen as defrauding not just consumers but also the publishers.[2]
In all of these situations, one can still say that "it is perilous to permit the state to be the arbiter of truth"—just as it would be perilous if the government tried to generally ban lies about itself, about science, about history, and about other "matters of public concern." Prosecutors, judges, and juries may often be unreliable evaluators of what is a knowing lie and what is an unorthodox truth in such matters. And that's true in a perjury, fraud, or false statement prosecution as much as in a hypothetical prosecution for seditious libel, racial libel, or Holocaust denial.
Thus, for instance, say someone wants to raise money for a foundation that would reject claims that the Ottoman government deliberately engaged in genocide of Armenian civilians during World War I. Doubtless in his fundraising letters the speaker would assert that the Armenian genocide did not in fact happen. Yet if the government then prosecutes the speaker for fundraising fraud, this would pose much the same kind of threat to free debate about history that the Court was concerned about in Alvarez.
At the same time, disabling the government from prosecuting such lies (or, in some instances, allowing civil liability based on such lies) when those lies lead to tangible financial injury, or interfere with court proceedings or police investigations, can leave a good deal of harm unpunished and undeterred. This is why when it comes to individual libel, the harms of which are intensely focused on particular people, the Court allowed liability for knowing lies and rejected an argument for categorical protection. Again, the concurring Justices in New York Times v. Sullivan made such an argument, precisely on the grounds that the legal system can't be trusted in determining the truth or falsehood of allegations on matters of public concern (especially allegations about public figures). But the majority refused to go along.
Likewise, when it comes to religious claims, the Court has long recognized that the government may not be an arbiter of truth. But the Court has nonetheless allowed fraud prosecutions based on a showing that someone seeking religious donations is knowingly lying about his supposed religious experiences and miraculous healing powers. That was the holding of United States v. Ballard in rejecting a Free Exercise Clause defense to a fraud prosecution,[3] but the logic of the Court's analysis would apply to a Free Speech Clause defense as well.
This question has so far been little explored, and my views on it are tentative. But it seems to me that such lies should be punishable at least when they (1) constitute fraud, perjury, false statement to government officials, or some other generally punishable sort of lie, and (2) are claimed to be based on personal knowledge.
Lies that are supposedly based on personal knowledge—"I saw the police beat John Smith," "I conducted my experiments this way," "I have healed the sick by laying on my hands," "I interviewed the Pope for my book"—tend to be particularly dangerous. Speakers who claim first-hand knowledge of some incident are essentially claiming to have superior expertise about the incident: They were present, and (usually) very few other people were. As a result, people considering the matter tend to feel inclined to take such eyewitness claims seriously.
In such situations, it's especially important that lies be deterred and punished by the legal system. The lies are potentially more harmful, or at least more directly harmful, than mere allegations in newspapers, because they involve attempts to get money, attempts to deceive the judicial process, or attempts to distract government officials in their investigations. And the lies are potentially more harmful than broad assertions not based on personal knowledge (e.g., claims that the Armenian genocide did not happen), precisely because the speaker's claim of first-hand knowledge is especially likely to be believed, and is especially hard to rebut.
On the other hand, someone who is yet another voice on the subject of the Armenians in World War I, the JFK assassination, or racial differences is only one source among many. Most listeners, especially ones whose job it is to evaluate his statement (such as government officials) or whose money is on the line (such as book publishers), will give the person's claims comparatively little credit—why credit them more than all the other experts' claims?—and will find it relatively easy to find other sources on the subject, precisely because the speaker is just one claimed expert among many.
With this, this series of posts concludes; thanks for reading!
[* * *]
[1] State v. Crawley, 819 N.W.2d 94, 120–25 (Minn. 2012) (Stras, J., dissenting) (concluding that even such "knowing falsehoods" are presumptively "entitled to protection under the First Amendment," and restrictions on them are "unconstitutional unless [they] can survive strict scrutiny"). The dissenters concluded that the statute "also fails to survive constitutional scrutiny because … [it] is viewpoint discriminatory," id. at 126, but that was an independent ground for the dissent's conclusion.
[2] In re Grand Jury Matter (Gronowicz), 762 F.2d 983 (3d Cir. 1985).
[3] 322 U.S. 78 (1944).
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"Lies about science "
Interesting how climate science advocates and covid science advocates are demanding censorship of "misinformation and disinformation about climate science and covid science.
with the exception of a few items such as Hcx and ivermectin, most everything the "anti covid science" crowd said contrary to the accepted "covid science" has turned out to be correct.
Hmmm...
What does that tell you about the efforts to ban discussion of "biological differences between the sexes' or races' cognitive faculties"?
Humanity is doomed if the comments section reflects anywhere close to a significant portion of people.
Thank you for your comment. Trying to prove your point?
Not sll.of humanity is like Tony nor Joe Friday.
Dar. I am here to say the things the people on the bus and in the diner are thinking. They are pissed, and all want to kill the lawyer profession. I want to help it improve.
I find the comment section is much more pleasant and reasonable after I started using the "mute user" button. It's almost like curating your online experiences is a good thing or something.
Does the word "lie" have any meaning today?
I think the issue here can be explained by the materiality element. A lie has to cause a loss and be material to someone’s loss to be actionable. This is not necessarily a property of the lie itself. This could be a property of its context. The identical falsehood could be material in one context and not in another.
So, for example, a falsehood about chemistry might not be material if stated in the abstract. But that same falsehood could be actionable if it causes people to buy a product believing it has properties it doesn’t have.
This makes me skeptical of Professor Volojh’s entire effort to classify statements into actionable and non-actionable based solely on properties of the statements themselves. I don’t think that works. Whether statements are actionable or not, whether they result in a loss or not, can depend as much on the context in which the statements are made as on the statements themselves.
This makes me skeptical of Professor Volojh’s entire effort to classify statements into actionable and non-actionable based solely on properties of the statements themselves.
Do you ever read anything before commenting on it? There's absolutely no way to read what he's written on this subject and reasonably conclude that he's engaging in an "effort to classify statements into actionable and non-actionable based solely on properties of the statements themselves". Every one of his examples, in which the context is critical to the analysis makes that abundantly clear.
Also, lawyers are skilled at exaggerating claims to maximize awards, if not outright fraud. The success parameter depends on waving shiny stuff in front of a juru and crying.
Examples: The whole MMR vaccine and autism, or silicone breast implants.
I have a hypothetical, though it has real-world significance. Let's say that a 501c3 organization states something that is mathematically false, which is a key aspect of the organization. For example, the organization claims that it is impossible to use the sum squares of any two sides of a triangle to find the square of the third side unless one of the angles is 90 degrees. This, of course, omits the Law of Cosines. Thus, while C^2 = A^2 + B^2 if the angle opposite C is 90 degrees, the generalized rule includes (2AB * Cos C) thusly: C^2 = A^2 + B^2 - (2AB * Cos C). I ask this question because if a charitable organization is based upon a mathematically demonstrable mathematical falsehood, shouldn't that be actionable?
Actionable by whom? The IRS can police the laws related to federal taxation. The state Attorney General can enforce compliance with state laws related to charities. If the organization's charter requires it to trisect an angle using straightedge and compass, failure to do so would be within the jurisdiction of the state.
Without context and just based on what you've said, it seems to me you're just interpreting the 501c3's language differently than they are. What you say is completely consistent with what I would imagine they intended: C^2 = A^2 + B^2 iff A and B are at 90 degrees. The general rule needs more than just the sum of squares.
I've given you a couple weeks of not saying anything as you said you were working on a post or article, but we get a draft of this and not a draft of a response to the Kennedy religious coach case?
Not one article from anyone other than the gloating Blackman from Volokh on the case.
The utter gall of a group of law professors not to have the same priorities you do!
It’s a very significant case. It does seem odd to have no response from anyone besides Blackman who, in my opinion, is as predictable as any political hack. Maybe Prof Volokh et al helped on the case in some fashion. Just speculating.
Prof. Volokh posted a couple of weeks ago that he's working on a writeup, but there are some nuances he needs to research to get right.
Prof Volokh, it seems to me that you're conflating issues in the paragraphs extracted for this post. There is a world of difference between alleging fraud in one's scientific conclusions (which are a matter of judgment) and alleging fraud in one's methods and actions (which are more likely to be a matter of objective fact).
For example, I agree that prosecuting an author over claims about the Pope would be problematic but I have no qualms at all over a prosecution of someone who said he conducted interviews A, B and C despite not actually conducting those interviews.
Similarly, I see great problems with letting the government be the arbiter of truth about, for example, the conclusions of a scientific study about climate change but I see no problems prosecuting scientists who is proven to have intentionally falsified the data that was used in the study.
Later in the post, you seem to come to the same conclusions so maybe it's more confusion in the way some of your middle paragraphs are worded than disagreement with your analysis.
What if an influential member of government lies and policy is created based off those lies and it results in significant economic and health harm?
Now we know in reality the Federals are free to ignore any laws they wish and curb stomp our rights as they see fit, so I’m just talking about theoretically.
That’s just not true. There are many limits on what guvment can do or require. There’s nothing like a curb-stomp on your rights. Sad thing is that so many people want to believe that because it makes them mad. Which makes them easily manipulated by trolls.
"You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations."
Joe Biden
"When people are vaccinated they can feel safe that they are not going to get infected."
Tony Fauci
In that same town hall, Biden also said:
"This is a simple, basic proposition: If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in an ICU unit, and you’re not going to die,"
And also: ""not likely to get sick. You’re probably going to be symptomless. You’re not going to be in a position where your life is in danger."
So if you bother with context....but you don't do that these days, do you? Just propaganda for you!
Pivoting to another laughably incorrect statement somehow improves things?
Did you get a Covid vaccine?
Pivoting again to something having nothing to do with Biden's speech ain't gonna do it either. Take the L.
I'm disengaging because it's you - you don't care about what's actually going on, just which pedantic points you can make.
That town hall's message was not one of vaccine miracles. Everyone seemed to realize it at the time. But now it's ammo.
An anti-truth position you endorse. Because you suck.
This is laughable -- even for you -- in the context of a discussion about POTUS lying his ass off to try to manipulate the public into acting differently than they would have absent the lies.
Hopefully you just lost track and forgot you already lobbed this sad little playground insult earlier in the very same day. If not, I offer it as Exhibit A of exactly how far you've tumbled down the cogent debate pyramid.
"Accidentally wiped cell phone."
Andrew Weissmann
"The COVID-19 pandemic is one of the most manipulated infectious disease events in history, characterized by official lies in an unending stream led by government bureaucracies, medical associations, medical boards, the media, and international agencies."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9062939/
Russell L. Blaylock (born November 15, 1945) is an author and a retired U.S. neurosurgeon.
Blaylock has endorsed views inconsistent with the scientific consensus, including that food additives such as aspartame and monosodium glutamate (MSG) are excitotoxic in normal doses.
Nice Wikipedia cut and paste. Case closed!
Dude posted a common loon like it was a serious paper.
You defend him.
Because you suck almost as much as he does.
Defend? Your (shamelessly unattributed) drive-by ad hom doesn't need a defense.
It's not an ad-hom when ML cited it as a paper.
It's countering his appeal to authority.
If he'd just posted the quote, do you think it'd have had as much weight?
No. Quit playing bullshit games and get at the actual substance of things for once.
It's ad hom against the cite authority, my dear master of playing dumb. The thought-free items you pasted in have squat to do with the subject at hand.
Indeed.
Is there a new link to the draft article? I get a 404 file not found error when I click on the link in Eugene's post.
Here is a problem.
https://www.drugawareness.org/editor-of-lancet-medical-research-is-unreliable-at-best-or-completely-fraudulent/
Queenie. Great comment, bruh.
Queenie. So true. Very incisive, bruh.
Queenie. You are so funny, and incisive. I would pay to hear you expound on various issues of the day.
So true, Queenie. Great comment, bruh.
They are being held without bail. Not all but some, and they are being tortured and persecuted by Federal class traitors and demons.
The Federals are demons.