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Second Amendment Rights of People Briefly Hospitalized for Mental Health Reasons Long Ago?
From Judge Dale Drozd's opinion in Clifton v. U.S. DOJ (E.D. Cal.), filed Friday:
In 2001, plaintiff was in eighth grade at Mt. Vernon Middle School in Los Angeles, California. He was thirteen years old at the time. Because plaintiff's mother had passed away and he never knew his father, plaintiff then lived with his grandmother. His grandmother's husband—plaintiff's step-grandfather—was physically and mentally abusive toward both plaintiff and his grandmother. One day in June of 2001, while at an after-school program, plaintiff made comments about "what he would like to do toward his step-grandfather in order to protect himself and his grandmother."
Plaintiff never directly threatened anyone nor took any action to harm his step-grandfather. Nevertheless, the school called a Psychiatric Emergency Team ("PET"), which consisted of licensed mental health clinicians approved by the County of Los Angeles Department of Mental Health to provide Welfare and Institutions Code §§ 5150 and 5585 evaluations. Upon evaluation by the PET, plaintiff was hospitalized for mental health treatment at Gateways Hospital and Mental Health Center in Los Angeles, California for 15 days—from June 12 through June 27, 2001. Although plaintiff was initially hospitalized for only 72 hours pursuant to § 5150, his hospitalization was extended by 14 days for intensive treatment pursuant to § 5250.
Upon his release from the hospital, plaintiff was not prescribed any continuing medication, nor was he required to receive any further psychiatric treatment, including therapy or counselling. Plaintiff alleges that he was never notified of his right to seek judicial review of an involuntary hold and that he was never informed of any long-term repercussions as a result of his psychiatric hold. Nevertheless, plaintiff lost his private capacity to own a firearm as a result of 18 U.S.C. § 922(g), which prohibits an individual who has been involuntarily committed to a mental institution from owning, possessing, using, or purchasing a firearm or ammunition. Notably, 18 U.S.C. § 925(a)(1) provides an exception to this firearms ban under federal law for state actors acting in their official capacity.
Plaintiff went on to graduate from high school and enlist in the United States Marine Corps in 2005. Under § 925(a)(1), plaintiff was permitted to handle a firearm during his time with the marines. Plaintiff completed three combat deployments before leaving active duty in 2013 and received an Honorable Discharge as a Sergeant. Subsequently, plaintiff was hired by the Federal Bureau of Prisons as a corrections officer in 2015. He remained in that position until April 2019, when he resigned in good standing. Plaintiff is informed and believes that both his service in the marines and his employment as a federal correctional officer required a complete background investigation that would have revealed his past hospitalization.
On April 8, 2019, the Fresno County Sheriff's Office hired plaintiff as a correctional officer at the Fresno County Jail. Prior to being hired in this role, plaintiff underwent and passed a full psychological evaluation that confirmed he is mentally fit to possess and use a firearm. Then, in 2020, plaintiff applied for a "Deputy Sheriff I" position in the Fresno County Sheriff's Office. This time, when Fresno County ran a background check, the California Department of Justice statewide telecommunications system reported plaintiff's prior hospitalization implicating his lifetime firearms ban under federal law.
As a result of plaintiff's federal firearms restriction, the Fresno County Sheriff's Office declined to sponsor plaintiff's entry into the "Basic Academy under the California Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training" (i.e., "POST Academy") and represented that it will not consider plaintiff for a sworn deputy sheriff position. Thus, although 18 U.S.C. § 925(a) provides an exception to the firearms ban under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(4) for state or federal actors operating in their official capacity, Fresno County has declined to seek to apply that exception to plaintiff. Under state and federal law, there is no other proceeding that plaintiff can bring to expunge or extinguish his lifetime firearms restrictions under federal law.
Clifton challenged § 922(g)(4), in part based on the Second Amendment. The court began by observing that, in effect, § 922(g)(4) permanently bans gun possession by Californians who had ever been committed for mental health reasons, even long ago:
Federal law prohibits a person "who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution" from possessing a firearm or ammunition. Federal law has provided two potential avenues for relief from this lifetime ban, but both have been foreclosed to all California residents.
First, prior to 1992, a person in plaintiff's position could have applied to the United States Attorney General for relief under 18 U.S.C. § 925(c), which provided "for relief from the disabilities imposed by Federal laws with respect to the … possession of firearms." Under 18 U.S.C. § 925(c), the Attorney General may, but is not required to, grant relief "if it is established to his satisfaction that the circumstances regarding the disability, and the applicant's record and reputation, are such that the applicant will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and that the granting of the relief would not be contrary to the public interest." However, since 1992, Congress "has prohibited the use of funds to act on such applications, disabling the program." "Congress defunded the program because, among other reasons, determining eligibility had proved to be 'a very difficult and subjective task which could have devastating consequences for innocent citizens if the wrong decision is made.'"
Second, the states may establish programs under 34 U.S.C. § 40915 to provide opportunities for relief from the prohibition imposed by § 922(g)(4). To qualify to do so, the state's program must "permit[] a person who, pursuant to State law, … has been committed to a mental institution, to apply to the State for relief from the disabilities imposed by" 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(4) and other laws. The program also must provide:
That a State court, board, commission, or other lawful authority shall grant relief, pursuant to State law and in accordance with the principles of due process, if the circumstances regarding the disabilities …, and the person's record and reputation, are such that the person will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and that the granting of the relief would not be contrary to the public interest.
… "Thirty-one states and two tribal governments have established such programs, but California has not." Specifically, California law does not require a determination "that the person will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and that the granting of the relief would not be contrary to the public interest."
But the court concluded that Clifton's hospitalization may not have counted as a commitment under § 922(g)(4), because it didn't involve a judicial evaluation of his mental health:
The court … concludes plaintiff has adequately alleged that his 2001 hospitalization does not constitute an involuntary commitment involving robust judicial involvement under § 922(g)(4). At the time of plaintiff's hospitalization, California Welfare and Institutions Code § 5150 required the officer, staff person, or other professional who caused the person to be taken into custody to state the circumstances giving rise to probable cause that, because of a mental disorder, the person was a danger to others, himself, or gravely disabled, in a written application to the facility or hospital. However, "Section 5150 provided no hearing." California Welfare and Institutions Code § 5250 then authorized hospital staff to certify a person for an additional 14 days of treatment, which is what plaintiff alleges occurred with respect to his hospitalization here….
Other federal circuit and district courts have concluded that similar procedures do not qualify as commitments under § 922(g)(4). For example, in Rehlander, the First Circuit concluded that temporary hospitalizations carried out by way of an ex parte procedure—not unlike the procedure alleged here pursuant to California Welfare & Institutions Code § 5250—did not constitute a commitment under the provisions of § 922(g)(4)…. Moreover, the two Ninth Circuit cases to address commitment procedures in the context of § 922(g)(4) both involved judicial determinations that the plaintiffs required institutionalization and in both cases the plaintiffs had been represented by counsel at those court proceedings…. Thus, the court concludes that plaintiff has adequately alleged that there was no "commitment" within the meaning of that word as used in § 922(g)(4)…. Of course, on summary judgment for instance, the evidence may establish that plaintiff's 2001 certification did indeed include the level of judicial involvement necessary for § 922(g)(4) to apply to him….
And the court briefly discussed, but didn't resolve, the question whether § 922(g)(4) may be unconstitutional:
In D.C. v. Heller, the Supreme Court emphasized that nothing in its opinion "should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill." Defendants note that the Supreme Court "identified such prohibitions as 'presumptively lawful,' because they affect classes of individuals who, historically, have not had the right to keep and bear arms." … [And Mai v. U.S. (9th Cir. 2020) held that, even as to] a plaintiff committed for mental health treatment as a minor[,] … § 922(g)(4)'s continued application did not violate the Second Amendment….
In [Mai,] the Ninth Circuit held that § 922(g)(4) was constitutional because "the Second Amendment allows categorical bans on groups of persons who presently pose an increased risk of violence." The court reached this conclusion by applying intermediate scrutiny to § 922(g)(4)…. However, the Ninth Circuit's Second Amendment jurisprudence has now at least arguably been somewhat cast into doubt due to the Supreme Court's recent decision in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc. v. Bruen. The majority opinion in that case suggests that the … intermediate scrutiny approach to certain Second Amendment challenges may no longer govern….
Nevertheless, the undersigned notes that in Justice Kavanaugh's concurring opinion in Bruen, in which Chief Justice Roberts joined, it was stated that "[n]othing in [the Court's] opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill …." Moreover, the Supreme Court has previously recognized that in enacting § 922(g)(4), Congress sought "to keep firearms out of the hands of presumptively risky people."
Based on the presumptive constitutionality of § 922(g)(4) due to the historical evidence supporting laws barring the mentally ill from owning firearms, the undersigned strongly believes that § 922(g)(4) would be upheld by the Supreme Court, regardless of any new, as of yet undefined and unapplied, interpretation methods developed in light of the decision in Bruen. That is not a question that this court must answer today. In fact, it would likely be irresponsible to do so in light of the many cases that will undoubtedly address both the holding in Bruen and how it is to be applied in this Circuit. Moreover, of course, neither party has briefed those issues in this case. Instead, because the court will deny defendants' motion to dismiss as to plaintiff's Second Amendment claim on the basis that plaintiff has adequately alleged that he was never "committed" for mental health treatment as that term is used in § 922(g)(4), the court need not address the constitutionality of § 922(g)(4) in this order. If—after further briefing and conducting of discovery—the court is again faced with that question, it will address it at that time….
My tentative view: The Court in D.C. v. Heller did approve of "prohibitions on the possession of firearms by … the mentally ill," but "the mentally ill" doesn't mean "anyone who has ever been found to have mental problems." Like the physically ill, "the mentally ill" generally refers to present illness, not long-past illness. (Nor do I know of any longstanding history of permanent disqualification of anyone who had ever been mentally ill.) And while past illness is often evidence of present illness, it seems to me that, to be constitutional, a prohibition has to provide for some sort of reevaluation and potentially recovery of gun rights, especially after many years have past—something that § 925(c) initially provided, but that it no longer does.
UPDATE: D'oh! I initially wrote "But the court concluded that Clifton's hospitalization may have counted as a commitment under § 922(g)(4), because it didn't involve a judicial evaluation of his mental health," omitting the "not." As my parents would say in such situations "with 180 degree precision" …. Sorry for the error, and thanks to Jordan Brown for pointing it out.
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We hope both the 2nd Amendment and People get well soon, after being briefly hospitalized. The Oxford Comma thing…
Fair point, revised the title slightly.
"…to be constitutional, a prohibition has to provide for some sort of reevaluation and potentially recovery of gun rights…"
The crux of the matter. In MA, a juvenile DUI is a lifetime prohibition. There’s a lot of state-level lifetime prohibitions that need to be reconsidered.
There are two problems with Massachusetts law. Some minor offenses are classified as felonies under federal law. The state process to restore the right to have a gun does not qualify as a restoration of civil rights under federal law.
The case illustrates another problem with the lawyer dumbass. What counts is the person, yes, the status of the person, a lawyer prohibited consideration or element.
The plaintiff was an outstanding, responsible individual, yet the dumbass lawyer denied him a weapon.
It is a general problem. So a murderer of an abusive individual is doing society a favor, and should not only go home, but get a reward for the scalp of a criminal. A shoplifter should get the death penalty, if it turns out he is really a drug kingpin and a serial killer of hundreds. The problem is the person, in the words of Saddam. The lawyer is just too stupid to understand this.
"Plaintiff never directly threatened anyone nor took any action to harm his step-grandfather. Nevertheless, the school called a Psychiatric Emergency Team ("PET"), which consisted of licensed mental health clinicians approved by the County of Los Angeles Department of Mental Health to provide Welfare and Institutions Code §§ 5150 and 5585 evaluations."
All woke is case. Here, we even have a regulation citation.
Mental illness is an ADAAA protected status.
The goal of some people and groups is to disqualify as many people as possible.
That "presumptively constitutional" language gets a lot of play, every time some judge wants to support gun control. What I wish people would start arguing is it means, in so many words, that because the gun control law was passed by a legislature and signed by a governor, that's what entitles it to a presumption of constitutionality. Not because gun control is "good" and therefore constitutional, but rather because courts have held (basically forever) that all laws that make it all the way through all the horse-trading, log-rolling, sausage-making, public hearings and comments, revision by the professional revisers (the Legislature's lawyers who translate from Politician English to Lawyer English), review by the governor's lawyers and so on, are entitled to be presumed to be constitutional.
That presumption is rebuttable, unlike the way judges see it when they want to uphold gun control. All those laws that imposed Jim Crow were passed by legislatures and signed by governors and were therefore entitled to that presumption of constitutionality, until they ran headlong into the Bill of Rights. Same for these gun control laws.
This particular judge, though, just can't quit gun control... viz.:
"... the Ninth Circuit's Second Amendment jurisprudence has now at least arguably been somewhat cast into doubt due to the Supreme Court's recent decision in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc. v. Bruen. The majority opinion in that case suggests that the … intermediate scrutiny approach to certain Second Amendment challenges may no longer govern….".
No, your honor. The Ninth Circuit's 2A jurisprudence, with its aptly satirized 100-0 record favoring gun control, has been thrown in the crapper. And there is no doubt the "intermediate scrutiny approach" has been discarded. That's what the decision of the court held, not suggested.
It’s a corrwct decision. If the statute does not in fact apply to him and it was a mistake for the Fresno Sherriff’s Department to conclude it did, thew’a no standing or reason to consider the statute’s constitutionality. Only someone to whom the statute actually applies would have standing to contest it.
And Clifton’s lawyer acted very appropriately in researching evidence and arguments that the statute didn’t apply to Clifton at all as a mattef of statutory law, rather than jumping immediately to a constitutional challenge of uncertain outcome.
Anti-gun courts don't want to accept that "presumptively" constitutional just means, "until you do some analysis", not, "barring some further commandment from this Court". They're perfectly free to do that analysis themselves, they don't have to be dragged kicking and screaming into upholding the right.
Absent standing, there is no basis for challenging a patently unconstitutional statute, let alone a presumptively constitutional one. Federal judges aren’t knights-errant who roam around the country looking for wrongs to right or places where they can grind their favorite axes. There has to be an actual case or controversy before they have any power to act. The fact that the statute books are decorated in a way that you don’t happen to like has nothing to do wifh this plaintiff. As long as no statute keeps him from possessing a gun, no statute interferes with his 2nd Amendment rights, so the 2nd Amendment is simply irrelevant to this case.
That is, his constitutional rights have to be actually interfered with by the statute in order for the judge to have power to form any binding opinion on the statute’s constitutionality. If the statute doesn’t interfere with his rights, there’s no basis for federal courts to pass judgment on it.
No, I realize that this particular case allowed them to vindicate his rights without tackling the constitutional issue. I was speaking generally.
One of the interesting differences between U.S. and Indian law, despite their common ancestry, is the right of judges in India to act _suo motu_ and go out to right wrongs where either standing or separation of powers would prevent similar action here.
Anyone who would voluntarily work in a prison/jail has to be a little "mentally ill"
Considering how peace officers are being treated in Defund cities, they're headed for the exits too. But I wouldn't call it mental illness to seek or keep a career in that field.
Laws like these make me wonder how many people won't seek treatment for mental health issues for fear of permanently losing their rights.
Ideally, mental health histories should differentiate between those who voluntarily seek out treatment, and those who are sent in by others because of antisocial (aka criminal) or other alarming behavior. But I gather most of our bureaucracies don't think that way.
Theoretically they do; Note that 18 U.S.C. § 922(g), referenced above, only applies to involuntary commitments. If you check yourself in, supposedly you're OK.
But voluntary commitments have a nasty way of turning into involuntary commitments the moment you and the shrink disagree about anything.
As a minor, he could not really voluntarily commit himself, just as he could not initiate legal proceedings to overturn the in-voluntary commitment.
Arlo Guthrie did a nice piece on how inconsistent up government thinking is;
"...And I, I walked over to the, to the bench there, and there is, Group W's where they put you if you may not be moral enough to join the army after committing your special crime, and there was all kinds of mean nasty ugly looking people on the bench there. Mother rapers. Father stabbers. Father rapers! Father rapers sitting right there on the bench next to me! And they was mean and nasty and ugly and horrible crime-type guys sitting on the bench next to me. And the meanest, ugliest, nastiest one, the meanest
Father raper of them all, was coming over to me and he was mean 'n' ugly 'N' nasty 'n' horrible and all kind of things and he sat down next to me and said, "Kid, whad'ya get?" I said, "I didn't get nothing, I had to pay $50 and pick up the garbage." He said, "What were you arrested for, kid?"
And I said, "Littering." And they all moved away from me on the bench...
Kudos for referencing Alice's Restaurant! 🙂
The basic problem here is that the 2nd amendment is still subject to practices that became common during the period when the Court was refusing all 2nd amendment cases, and precedent was that the 2nd amendment didn't bind the states anyway.
So, the extent of the 2nd amendment is judged by a period when it wasn't in force!
It's rather like judging the 14th amendment by Jim Crow, really.
When will this end? Only when we have a Court majority that actually likes the 2nd amendment, and wants it to be fully in force, not the present majority that feels driven by perhaps unpleasant duty to enforce it.
Why did the Supreme Court never strike down gun regulations in federal territories when the amendment was specifically drafted to protect the RKBA in DC and federal territories??
Start with a false premise, end with a false conclusion.
Seems like an equal protection issue. Different rules in different states. Even if you leave the state.
"But the court concluded that Clifton's hospitalization may have counted as a commitment under § 922(g)(4), because it didn't involve a judicial evaluation of his mental health:"
I was confused by this sentence. I think that there should have been a "not": the court concluded that Clifton's hospitalization may not have counted...
I also wondered about that. The sentence makes no sense (to me) as written.
Good facts make bad law. This seems like an obvious case where you want to say, "Just get this particular case in front of a judge, who will have the authority to approve or overrule the decision to strip away the usual right to own a gun." I totally get the govt's position that it is deathly afraid of making a bad decision which will lead to a bad gun owner doing bad things. But courts and govt bodies have to make these sorts of potentially-deadly decisions all the time...do we return an abused child home after her parents have done the requisite reunification services?, do we parole this once-dangerous man, now that he's done X years in prison?, and so on.
Unless you are incarcerated, you should have all of the rights guaranteed by the Constitution.
Does that mean we should keep people in prison/jail until they are considered fully rehabilitated?
Does your answer differ for pre-trial detention (versus bail with conditions) versus parole versus after the completion of the full sentence?
Let them use the process to get their rights restored. And let's look at recidivism, and the seriousness of the original offense. And by all means, let's define felonies back up.
Can't support an 'automatic' restoration of rights upon release from incarceration.
Fresno County does not need any law enforcement.
Any (all all) restrictions on firearms possession are presumptively UNconstitutional, and the courts should approach the law from that fact.
After all, "Shall Not Be Infringed" is pretty definitive.
The quibble isn’t on the shall not be infringed, but on what the ‘The right of the people to keep and bear arms’ means. If ‘they’ can define the right narrowly enough, ‘they’ will (probably) be okay with not infringing on it.
Their preferred definition is that it's a right to be armed when ordered to be, as a member of the military.
You know, the same way the 1st amendment freedom of the press is about the US government's printing house in Pueblo, CO, and freedom of speech is about your right to testify under oath if subpoenaed?
What if he wanted to buy an AR-15? That in itself is a sign of mental illness.
Complaining about someone exercising a civil right while cherishing your own is a sign of middle illness.
Why is an AR-15 a civil right? The gun has no purpose except mass murder.
That’s not true. You can hunt and target shoot with it. Might even win a trophy.
Why is criticizing someone a civil right? It has no purpose except to hurt feelings. Words are violence you know.
Why is burning the flag a civil right? It has no purpose but to express that you’re pissed about something undefined and to piss off construction workers.
Why is the right to trial with representation by counsel a civil right? All that does is just let bad guys go free.
Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean you can cancel someone else’s rights.
My AR-15 is for defense of myself and my home. If you think it is for mass murder you should probably continue to not own one.
See, this is why I say gun controllers are fundamentally superstitious, they live in a demon haunted world.
Guns are inert objects. They don't have "purpose", purpose is an attribute of sentient beings with agency, such as you or me. They have "uses".
In the case of AR-15s, objectively, as in, you're delusional if you think otherwise, the primary use of an AR-15 is to punch holes in pieces of paper. Shoot feral hogs. To sit in closets.
Mass murder is so far down the list of uses of AR-15s that it's a rounding error.
And yet you've got the nerve to declare that this rounding error is the only purpose they have? Delusional and aggressively so, that's what you are.
captcrisis....Is there any circumstance you believe it is Ok to own a gun?
For instance, Rev Arthur is good with gun ownership for home protection, but not open or concealed carry.
Where are you on the spectrum?
Where are you on the spectrum?
Given his posting history I'd say he's not so much on the spectrum as he is severely and irreversibly brain damaged.
The Second Amendment guarantees the right to have the means to shoot people. Complaining that a weapon is good at shooting people misses the point.
I was tempted to write "kill people", but down the road we may invent practical non-lethal weapons that stop effectively without killing. Then the government could potentially make us swap our AR-15s for phasers without a "kill" setting.
I was tempted to write "kill people", but down the road we may invent practical non-lethal weapons that stop effectively without killing. Then the government could potentially make us swap our AR-15s for phasers without a "kill" setting.
Firearms...including AR-15s...do often effectively "stop" someone/something without killing. This is why I cringe every time I hear someone talking about "shoot to kill" in the context of self-defense uses of lethal/deadly force. The latter terminology refers to fact that "deadly force" is a form of force that has a high likelihood of resulting in death, not that death is either the inevitable outcome nor even necessarily the goal.
In the case of self-defense the death of an attacker is not (or at least should not be) the goal of the employment of deadly force. The goal is (or should be) effectively stopping the imminent threat that the attacker poses. If shooting the attacker immediately incapacitates him/her such that he/she is no longer an imminent threat, whether the attacker is dead or still alive and likely to survive, the goal of the use of that force has been achieved. That's why we've seen cases in which an otherwise justifiable use of a firearm in self-defense resulted in murder charges and convictions on those charges when the defender opted to administer a coup de grâce after a threat had already been neutralized.
Harvested 2 antelope with an AR15 two years ago. Will harvest a whitetail this fall.
Clean, ethical kills. No meat destroyed except one heart.
aaaaannnnnd: #EveryTerribleImplementOfTheSoldier
Why is an AR-15 a civil right? The gun has no purpose except mass murder.
That's odd. Millions of such firearms are in private hands and have been used by their owners, many for decades, with virtually none of them (statistically speaking) being used for homicide of any kind, let alone murder...let alone mass murder.
You're a moron.
"The gun has no purpose except mass murder."
Virtually every cop car carries an AR-15 style rifle either locked in the front or in the trunk. Perhaps CC can explain to us, in detail and with specifics, just who the police are planning to "mass murder." And why they are going to do so.
What if he wanted to buy an AR-15? That in itself is a sign of mental illness.
There are already plenty of reasons to not take you seriously. Why you feel the need to keep adding to that list is beyond me.
Article seems to lack EV's usual English perfection.
But the court concluded that Clifton's hospitalization may have counted as a commitment under § 922(g)(4), because it didn't involve a judicial evaluation of his mental health:
Surely lacking a "not".
especially after many years have past
The past tense of pass is passed.
I dont know, doesn't sound very textualist to me 🙂 What it sounds like is bending the meaning of the words mentally ill to achieve to achieve what was meant in all this but not what was said 🙂
Funny how strict rules fall by the wayside anytime someone mentions guns ...
I think liberals are mentally ill and many see therapists on a regular basis to talk about their feelings. Does that mean we can lawfully take away their First Amendment rights? Under this reasons I don't see why it has to just be the Second....
We can safely protect their First Amendment rights so we can tell whether they are still ill enough to be denied Second Amendment rights.
I have often argued that life long bans are counter productive.
For the convicted felon, all rights including the right to own guns should be automatically returned after, say 5 years. Most of the persistent criminals will typically commit another offense within months of release. The restoration of rights is then a carrot for rehabilitation.
The mental illness clause should have a time limit as well. The treatment of mental illnesses has advanced considerably in the last half century. Again the restoration of rights should be a carrot for recovery.
I think that they should get all rights back at the end of their sentences, but, not for their sakes. For the sake of everybody else!
Nominally denying them this right, (And it is only nominally, if they mean to commit crimes, illegally obtaining a gun is easy enough.) requires a whole elaborate system for the denial, the burden of which almost entirely falls on people who are NOT felons.
The slight inconveniencing of criminals isn't worth the burden on the rest of us.
What we're really talking about here, with life long deprivation of a civil liberty, is the establishment of a second class of citizenship. Regular citizens get the full set of civil liberties, second class citizens get a contracted set of liberties. No right to vote, maybe, or no right to keep and bear arms. Freedom of travel restrictions, perhaps.
If we are going to have two classes of citizenship, full citizens and 2nd class citizens, let's do a proper job of it, and require the 2nd class citizens to wear some mark of shame, like an RFID ankle band. So that instead of requiring full citizens to prove their full citizenship by undergoing background checks to exercise their full civil liberties, the lower class citizens would be easily identified and singled out.
And uniformly require demotion to 2nd class citizenship to be done by an adversarial process with all the protections of a felony trial. Not merely by the say so of some guy with a medical degree, or at the whim of a judge.
"require the 2nd class citizens to wear some mark of shame"
In retail, I often see "identification card" instead of "driver license" and suspect that I'm talking to a released felon.
Released felon, poor person who lost a license due to debt, or city dweller who never needed a license.
Two thoughts.
First, the First Circuit has addressed the subject of short term commitments. In pre-2008 decisions there was no right to have a gun so there was no problem with taking away the nonexistent right based on a signature-only involuntary commitment with no judicial review. After _Heller_ a panel the court reached the opposite conclusion, ruling that circuit precedent had been sufficiently undermined to justify overruling it without going en banc.
Second, declining to take advantage of a statutory exemption reminds me of the local transit agency. There was some question about the driving records of trolley drivers. Under state law they were not even required to have driver's licenses. But "of course", said the spokesman, the agency did require licenses. Why "of course"? It's right there in the law THEY DO NOT NEED LICENSES.
Predictable that someone would poke over ar15's bein nothing but mayhem and murder machines. So, I'm going to attempt to de-escalate the emotions of the situation. By (jokingly) introducing a different argument that seems to get folks just as riled up.
Ahem.
You should't get an ar15. Currently its a waste of $$$. You should get an ar10 or some other platform that shoots .308. An ar15's .223 rounds are for shooting zombie poodles and other tiny vermin. #nocurrentzombieapocalypse Now, I shall retreat and let folks hate me for awhile. It might not get seen by everyone here but in areas of the internet where ar15's are pleasantly discussed... you won't be welcome for long. 😀
I have to say the opinion confuses me. The judge says that the case can potentially be decided entirely on statutory grounds with no constitutional issues. He accepts that a “commitment” under the statute requires a judicial hearing and since the plaintiff alleged there was none, the plaintiff sufficiently alleges the statute doesn’t apply to him with no need to decide whether it is constitutional under the 2nd Amendment.
But then the judge proceeds to adjudicate other constitutional claims, including Due Process and Equal Protection. Doesn’t the same argument apply? It the Fresno county sherriff was simply mistaken in thinking the federal statute applied to the plaintiff, then it’s not the federal government’s problem at all, and there’s no constitutional violation or reason to consider constitutional issues.
Why did the judge proceeed to decide the other constitutional claims on the merits?
SOmeone raised a point about how many AR 15 type guns tehre are out there and how few are used in crimes. I wonder how much 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington ammunition is actually sold and how much is used for crimes. Of course criminals may have a lot of ammunition they haven't used yet.