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No-Contact Order Against Law Students (and Professor) Based on Conversation About Homosexuality and Bible …
likely unconstitutional, holds a federal district court.
From Perlot v. Green, decided yesterday by Chief Judge David Nye (D. Idaho), the facts:
On April 1, 2022, the law school at the University of Idaho held a "moment of community" in response to an anti-LGBTQ+ slur that had been left anonymously on a whiteboard in one of its classrooms …. Plaintiffs Perlot, Miller, and Alexander are law students and members of the University's chapter of the Christian Legal Society ("CLS"). Plaintiff Seamon is a professor at the law school and the CLS faculty advisor.
At the event, Plaintiffs gathered in prayer—with members of their society and others—in a showing of support for the LGBTQ+ community. After the prayer concluded, Jane Doe {a queer female and a law student at the University of Idaho School of Law} approached the group and asked those present why the CLS constitution affirms that marriage is between one man and one woman. Plaintiff Miller explained that CLS adhered to the traditional biblical view of marriage and sexuality—including the concept that marriage is defined as being between one man and one woman. Jane Doe expressed her opinion that the Bible did not support such a conclusion. Miller explained further that the Bible defines marriage as between one man and one woman in several places and that it condemns homosexuality—along with all other sins. Plaintiff Seamon purportedly affirmed Miller's explanation of CLS's position on marriage.
According to both sides, the parties then parted ways without further comment. Shortly after the event, Plaintiff Perlot left a handwritten note on Jane Doe's carrel. The note read—in its entirety: "I'm the president of CLS this semester. Feel free to come talk to me if you have anything you need to say or questions you want to ask. I'm usually in my carrel: 6-034. over by the windows. Peter [smiley face]." {Defendants relay that Jane Doe interpreted this action as "violating" her private carrel with "messaging she interpreted as one of the Plaintiffs' efforts to proselytize about extreme hateful religious dogma that [she] emphatically rejects."}
A few days later, on April 4, 2022, Plaintiffs Perlot and Alexander attended an event with other students regarding the American Bar Association's accreditation of the law school. According to Plaintiffs, Jane Doe and others raised concerns about CLS and its members—namely that they held religious beliefs that were bigoted and anti-LGBTQ+. Plaintiff Alexander then spoke up, defended CLS, and stated that the biggest instance of discrimination he had seen on campus was actually against CLS and the administration's failure to timely recognize and register it as a group.
That same day, several students staged "walkouts" for two of the courses taught by Plaintiff Seamon—seemingly in response to his participation at the event on April 1.
Also on April 4, Defendant Lindsay Ewan—Deputy Director of OCRI— interviewed Miller about the events that took place during the law school's community event on April 1.
Three days later, on April 7, 2022, Plaintiffs Perlot, Miller, and Alexander received no-contact orders from OCRI. Apparently, Jane Doe reported to OCRI that Plaintiffs' actions at the events described above left her feeling "targeted and unsafe." The no-contact orders prohibit Plaintiffs from having any contact with Jane Doe unless they receive advance permission from OCRI. The orders apply on and off campus, do not have termination dates, and state that "[a]ny action deemed to be in violation of this no- contact order will be taken seriously and considered retaliation. Further action may be taken by this administration as a result, which could include suspension or expulsion." …
After the filing of this suit—in fact after Plaintiffs had filed the instant PI Motion— OCRI issued a limited contact order against Plaintiff Seamon.
Plaintiff Seamon is a law professor. Sensing the community event may have caused Jane Doe stress, Seamon emailed her on April 3, 2022, to express his concern for her well-being. Jane Doe thanked Seamon for "reaching out," said she was still processing matters, and stated she would speak to him later in the week during his office hours. Jane Doe never met with Seamon, however, and began attending his class online due to some personal health issues. Seamon reached out again on April 26, 2022, to inquire whether Jane Doe wanted to speak. On April 27, 2022, Jane Doe sent an email to Seamon, copying the law school's dean and associate dean, in which she stated, in part:
Your event caused me to fear for my life at the university of Idaho. I am scared to be on campus, I am scared to be in your class. I fear you. I fear the CLS. My life, my grades, my law school career are not safe with a professor that is actively working towards taking away my human rights.…
The group you are the admin for, subjected me and others to violent verbal abuse, in which you took the lead on and agreed with. This has created unpreparable [sic] damage to your students and faculty at the school of law. If you continue to email me, I will file get [sic] a restraining order from the police.
Jane Doe then demanded that Seamon respond to the Deans (and not her) affirming that she would not be docked participation points for attending class remotely. Jane Doe gave Seamon a deadline by which to respond.
On May 10, 2022, OCRI issued a limited contact order against Seamon. Like the no-contact orders issued to the student Plaintiffs, this order prohibits Seamon from contacting Jane Doe for anything except "what is required for classroom assignment, discussion, and attendance." … {[U]nless otherwise noted, the use of the phrase "Plaintiffs" in the remainder of this decision means the student Plaintiffs and not Seamon.} {[Prof.] Seamon has not joined the PI Motion. … [but] the Court notes that its discussion and findings today would likely apply to Seamon as well. [After all], Seamon's allegations mirror those of Perlot, Miller, and Alexander, and the Court's legal analysis as to those Plaintiffs would extend to Seamon as he is similarly situated.}
The court concluded the no-contact orders were highly likely to be content- and viewpoint-based, because they were issued because of content and viewpoint of Plaintiffs' speech, and were therefore presumptively unconstitutional; and none of the law school's justifications for such speech restriction were sufficient:
[Defendants] they claim they had essentially no choice under Title IX but to issue the no-contact orders…. Title IX—and Defendants' own policy—define harassment to include "conduct on the basis of sex" {[which, i]n light of the Supreme Court's decision in Bostock v. Clayton County, … necessarily includes discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity} that is "determined by a reasonable person to be so severe, pervasive, and objectively offensive that it effectively denies a person equal access to the University's education program or activity." But there appears to be no sexual harassment in this case….
Nothing here appears to be "so severe, pervasive, and objectively offensive" as to hamper Jane Doe's access to her University education. See Davis ex rel. LaShonda D. v. Monroe Cty. Bd. of Educ. (1999) (to be actionable, harassment must be "so severe, pervasive, and objectively offensive that it effectively bars the victim's access to an educational opportunity or benefit"). What's more, "[t]here is no categorical 'harassment exception' to the First Amendment's free speech clause." "Harassment law generally targets conduct" and it can "sweep[ ] in speech … only when consistent with the First Amendment." Rodriguez v. Maricopa County Comm. College Dist. (9th Cir. 2010). {Additionally, "core political and religious speech," is "within a student's First Amendment rights" even if it "offends someone," so long as it "does not pose a realistic threat of substantial disruption." Saxe v. State Coll. Area Sch. Dist. (3d Cir. 2001).} See also Lopez v. Candaele (9th Cir. 2010) (finding that a university would have to take a "strained construction" of its own sexual harassment policy to make it "applicable to religious speech opposing homosexuality or gay marriage")…. Using Title IX as an excuse when there is no underlying sexual harassment to trigger Title IX is untenable and jeopardizes the vitality of Title IX….
Defendants assert that "no one has a right to press even 'good' ideas on an unwilling recipient," Rowan v. Post Office Dept. (1970), and that the no-contact orders protect Jane Doe from being an "unwilling recipient" of speech she disagrees with so she can "be free from persistent importunity, following and dogging" (citing Hill v. Colorado (2000)). {[But] Rowan involved the sending of unwanted materials into the sanctuary of another's home, not a public interaction. In fact, the paragraph cited by Defendants ends with this sentence: "The asserted right of a mailer, we repeat, stops at the outer boundary of every person's domain." } …
[And t]he Court in Hill made a clear distinction between the right to attempt to persuade others to change their views and offensive speech that is so intrusive that the unwilling audience cannot avoid it. The right to free speech cannot be curtailed simply because the speaker's message may be offensive to his audience. {After all, "[w]e are a social people and the accosting by one of another in an inoffensive way and an offer by one to communicate and discuss information with a view to influencing the other's action are not regarded as aggression or a violation of that other's rights." Hill. A person's interest in freedom from "importunity, following and dogging" ripens only "after an offer to communicate has been declined." Jane Doe made no such request in this case. She never declined to speak with Plaintiffs; in fact, she initiated the interactions at the two events. And while the University took some initial "investigatory" steps, those steps were largely one-sided. At no time did Jane Doe—personally or via OCRI—tell Plaintiffs she did not want to speak with them before the no-contact orders were issued. The University never provided an opportunity for informal resolution either.} …
Defendants offer virtually no support for their somewhat novel proposition that limited public interactions should require a no-contact order to allow a person to be free from persistent importunity, following, and dogging. {Defendants cite to a case out of the Eleventh Circuit, Doe v. Valencia College (11th Cir. 2018)) in support of this proposition. The facts of that case, however, are drastically different from what is present in this case—to the point that it is all but inapplicable. In Doe, the college suspended a male student who sent a female student "dozens of messages throughout the night making lewd references to her body." The female student made "repeated pleas that he stop contacting her," but "he continued to send unwanted messages over a period of days." He even sent her twenty messages after the college imposed a time limited no-contact order…. [T]he court concluded that the college could suspend the male student for invading the female student's right "to be let alone." Again, Plaintiffs' attempts to respond to Doe's inquiries are nothing like the student's behavior in Doe.}
And, contrary to Defendants' argument, the Supreme Court has repeatedly affirmed that the "college classroom with its surrounding environs is peculiarly the 'marketplace of ideas.'" Healy v. James (1972). Without the freedom "to inquire, to study and to evaluate," the Court has warned that "our civilization will stagnate and die." Sweezy v. New Hampshire (1957).
{Could behavior similar to the behavior alleged here warrant Title IX intervention? Possibly. For example, if Plaintiffs were to persist in contacting Jane Doe against her wishes or were to escalate their efforts to more invasive or harassing contact, the Court could understand how that would disrupt Jane Doe's educational experience. As it stands, however, it appears to be the general tenor of Plaintiffs' beliefs (expressed or not) that is causing Jane Doe stress rather than anything Plaintiffs actually said or did. It goes without saying that individuals interact with, work among, and even live with, people with whom they disagree. But such does not warrant intervention. And even in an educational setting (where the government is an actor), a person does not have a right to be shielded from everything with which they disagree.} …
Defendants next claim the no-contact orders at issue here are "mutual" and, therefore, are not specifically directed at Plaintiffs or their speech, but rather at creating a harmonious environment amongst all students…. It does appear that Jane Doe was issued a similar order at her request…. But there is a stark difference between a student receiving an order because she said, "I don't want people contacting me and, therefore, I agree not to contact them," and a student receiving an order saying, "You cannot contact other people because of your behavior/speech/viewpoint." …
Defendants further argue Plaintiffs can still talk to anyone else on campus about whatever they want and, therefore, their actions were "narrowly tailored"—it was just Plaintiffs' speech as applied to Jane Doe. But Defendants miss the mark. "If the state wishes to regulate speech, then it must undertake the burden to show a precise nexus between that speech and some evil which the state has a right to prevent." … Defendants cannot "abridge[ ]" Plaintiffs' "exercise of [their] liberty of expression in appropriate places … on the plea that it may be exercised in some other place."
Furthermore, it is not actually clear Plaintiffs will be able to talk about whatever they want with whomever they want in the future. As discussed, the speech at issue here can hardly be said to be harassment. But when each Plaintiff stated his religious view, such views were deemed harassing and worthy of action by OCRI. What happens when Plaintiffs discuss their religious views with others? It is not difficult to imagine another student (or professor) taking offense to something Plaintiffs say and trying to utilize OCRI's process in this manner again.
{Additionally, the Court notes that Plaintiff Seamon will be teaching a course this fall on the Fourteenth Amendment and individual rights. He is the only professor for this required course. Jane Doe is enrolled in this course. It remains unknown to what degree Plaintiff Seamon will be allowed to interact with Jane Doe without incurring discipline. What's more, a class on individual rights will surely discuss topics that some might find polarizing. If Seamon discusses individual rights in regard to the legal topics of LBGTQ+ rights, abortion, immigration, religion, or race, does he run the risk that someone will take subjective offense to his comments and allege he is violating their individual rights in his individual rights class? The question seems almost satirical.} …
Finally, Defendants argue there is no harm because they view the no-contact orders as non-punitive. Again, the Court disagrees. Plaintiff Perlot recently applied to sit for the State of Oregon bar exam. The application requires applicants to disclose any "no contact order[s]" they have received and warns that "[l]ack of complete candor" could lead to "denial of admission to the bar." Because the no-contact orders in this case still apply to graduated students, Perlot had to explain the no-contact order as part of his application. The Oregon Bar investigation is ongoing. Defendants' subjective view of the no-contact orders does not alter the punitive nature of an investigation by a state's professional licensing board.
The court also concluded that the orders violated the student plaintiffs' Free Exercise Clause and Due Process Clause rights:
Under the Free Exercise Clause, a law or rule that is not neutral or generally applicable is subject to strict scrutiny…. Defendants' no-contact orders show hostility to religious people and beliefs and thus flunk neutrality.
Similarly, Defendants issued the no-contact orders to Plaintiffs with almost no due process. While it appears OCRI began a quasi-investigation, they did not provide any of the Plaintiffs with notice of the allegations against them or allow Plaintiffs to respond to the allegations. Frankly, they did not involve Plaintiffs in any meaningful way. Rather, Defendants issued the orders because they were "requested by [Ms. Doe]" and "deemed"—in Defendants' own estimation—"reasonable based on the information presented." …
There is a sad irony in the fact that the restraint on Plaintiffs' speech began at an event meant to reiterate acceptance and tolerance and to dissuade bullying and marginalization. The Court shares law school Dean Johanna Kalb's hope that, at a law school, "classrooms and hallways will be a place of robust discussion and debate" and that "the foundation for all of these discussions [will be] mutual respect and grace."
Some may disagree with Plaintiffs' religious beliefs. Such is each person's prerogative and right. But none should disagree that Plaintiffs have a right to express their religious beliefs without fear of retribution. The Constitution makes that clear…
The court therefore ordered the no-contact orders rescinded, and wiped from the plaintiffs' records.
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The student agitated by the plaintiffs' conduct overreacted. It appears the university did as well (although the record may be incomplete regarding events that preceded the described circumstances).
Gullible, superstitious, bigoted culture war casualties have rights, too.
"Your event caused me to fear for my life at the university of Idaho. I am scared to be on campus, I am scared to be in your class. I fear you. I fear the CLS. My life, my grades, my law school career are not safe with a professor that is actively working towards taking away my human rights.…"
When you have fear and there is no danger, that is called anxiety. It is a mental symptom that requires treatment, not accommodation. It is a disservice and quackery to indulge the student. Avoidance will worsen her anxiety. Exposure will cure it.
It is not a Biblical belief that a marriage is between a man and a woman, to privilege reproduction. That is reality not just the Bible.
This is what happens when you give mentally ill people any social or political power.
"This is what happens when you give mentally ill people any social or political power."
Yup.
You people are blaming Trump for this?
Law students being tetchy and litigious over minor nonsense has been the case forever, no need to bring mental illness into the mix.
Come on, man. Huge difference between law students getting a bit of legal knowledge and more than a soupçon of swagger, and writing an over-the-top, 10 page demand letter threatening to take their landlord to court for not promptly returning all of the deposit upon move-out, and what we have here.
She used the language of the day: words are violence; views she finds offensive are harmful and make her feel unsafe; she must be protected from having even to interact with those Christians on pain of calling the cops; involving one’s employer; and demanding a guarantee of no detriment from not showing up in class (though it’s possible remote attendance was allowed for all; it’s not clear).
She is either smart (if a bit fascist) by using the crazy language of the day to her advantage. Or she is suffering from at least a moderate case of mental/emotional instability.
I’ve read your comments long enough to feel fairly confident that you don’t interpret her email as garden variety law student posturing of the sort we may have observed (or committed!) 15-20 years ago.
Or she's like 22 years old, and kind of an angry tool.
Calling it the language of the day and also a sign of mental illness seems to me like you're using mental illness as more an insult about stuff you think is really dumb than any actual statement of fact.
I dunno. "Your event caused me to fear for my life at the university of Idaho." is not evidence of a firm grasp on reality.
One might think commenters at a right-wing blog would be careful about the 'firm grasp on reality' angle in connection with an incident involving a formal group of superstitious, gullible, delusional rubes who can't distinguish fact from fiction.
"This is what happens when you give mentally ill people any social or political power."
People dumb enough to believe -- or at least claim to believe -- that silly, childish fairy tales are true? Superstitious, delusional knuckle-draggers?
In defense of the verklempt and over sensitive people, in defense of the overly easily triggered, all PC is case. All woke is case. If you want to stop this madness, beat the ass of any judge that refuses to dismiss these cases upon filing. Dismissal after first pleading costs $50000 in fees. Those fees are hideous and excessive fines.
Eugene needs to start to make himself more useful. Post all legal costs to date for these ridiculous cases of lawyer rent seeking. They represent plain stealing by the lawyer profession. Start visiting these crooks.
I guess the "BitterKlinger" keys on your Commodore 64 ARE worn out, "Reverend"
and when did "Queer" stop being a "Slur"??? is "Dyke" still one? these Dykes seem to be embracing it....
https://www.dykesonbikes.org/
Frank
Oh, it's Mengele. Thought something smelled like fish.
"I'm the president of CLS this semester. Feel free to come talk to me if you have anything you need to say or questions you want to ask. I'm usually in my carrel: 6-034. over by the windows. Peter [smiley face]."
EXTREME HATE
Triggered, verklempt.
Sigh. The facts of this case are such that, if you wrote an exam with these facts, students would complain, "Come on. This is a poorly-written hypo, since no one attending law school would ever act like this. Please try to write exam questions that have at least a tenuous link to real-life behavior and to real-life situations."
I'll note that, in this case, Jane Doe was the one who made the decision to approach the religious group and to therefore start the entire situation. Her later comment (that CLS held views that were bigoted against gay [et al] people) was (a) entirely correct, IMO, but (b) just as targeting as anything that CLS said to her.
I'm not gay, so I can only imagine what it is to live a life where many people have mocked or hated me for whom I happen to fall in love with, or, whom I happen to be attracted to. But, for God's sake, if you are of sufficient maturity to be attending a graduate programme in law; can you really be so thin-skinned as the plaintiff was in this case?
(Eugene posted this as a First Amendment issue, and rightly so. He chose not to remark about allowing this woman to remain anonymous. On one hand; I get it, given the sexuality-based nature of this case. But on the other hand(s), I don't. I mean, the moving parties are identified. And, I have to admit that, if I were hiring partner at a firm, I'd want to know who the complaining woman is. . . at my pro-gay, pro-disabled, pro-women firm, I'd be very reluctant to hire anyone where I felt the other 99% of workers would have to be walking around on eggshells every minute of every hour of every day.
[I feel especially bad for the law student who had to disclose the keep-away order as part of his application re bar admission. One hopes he can update his file with this court ruling.]
Anti-gay rhetoric and anti-gay actions are a real thing, and a really serious thing. Bullsh*t cases like this trivialize actual cases, and do nothing but hurt the cause. I'm not angry with the woman in question. But (to channel my late grandmother), I'm really disappointed in her.
I agree with all of this. File this in "self-own".
I was wondering about the Jane Doe bit too. EV often comments on anonymity in court. But not here.
It's pretty normal for non-parties -- witnesses, alleged crime victims, and the like -- not to be named. The Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, for instance, generally require the caption of a case to list the parties, but don't have anything similar for others mentioned in the case.
And in part because their identities are generally (though not always) less central to the case than the names of the parties, the parties are often fine keeping them out of it, at least until they have to testify; and there's no right of public access to information that never made its way into the court file in any event. Perhaps this isn't the right approach, but it's the one the legal system tends to use.
"Her later comment (that CLS held views that were bigoted against gay [et al] people) was (a) entirely correct, IMO, but (b) just as targeting as anything that CLS said to her."
This is fair enough I suppose. Personally I can't fathom how CLS's views can be considered "bigoted," but it seems you're at least capable of agreeing to disagree about that...which is all one can really ask.
I'm using "bigoted" in the sense of, " prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group,' which is one of the common definitions (it was the first definition that shows up if I Google "meaning of bigoted.")
There are other definitions of bigoted that I absolutely agree would not apply to this particular CLS group. For example, some definitions include "doesn't tolerate the opinions of others"--which obviously would not apply to the defendants' actions and communications in this case.
And yes...it is refreshing (and, alas, kinda rare, here) to find another person who will cheerfully agree to disagree. And on an online comment section, no less. We're unicorns!!! 🙂
Bigotry is not changed into something else or improved by a cloak of superstition.
A superstitious bigot is still a bigot.
That's all you have? Bigot, predjudiced, homophobic...
Bigot, bigot, bigot, bigot...
Such a small-minded little man, you are.
"Sigh. The facts of this case are such that, if you wrote an exam with these facts, students would complain, "Come on. This is a poorly-written hypo, since no one attending law school would ever act like this. Please try to write exam questions that have at least a tenuous link to real-life behavior and to real-life situations."
For that very reason, I strongly suspect that this was done in bad faith and she really did not feel oppressed, or whatever the terminology is. It's ideological lawfare.
She acted irrationally, therefore you think this was calculated?
Dude, no need to weave a complicated scenario here.
She went to them, asked them about their beliefs, and then acted offended (as though it's a secret that a Christian Law Society might think homosexuality is a sin), and harrased when someone sent her an innocuous message.
This is a corrollary of "gross negligence that raises and inference of fraud" that Cardozo wrote about in Ultramares v. Touche. Somtimes behavior is so off, that one suspects that more than gross irrationality is at play. I can't prove it, but I suspect it.
Reads to me like she was itching for a fight, not that she was acting in bad faith.
What you're doing is assuming evil when stupid is enough. A common affliction on the right these days.
To me "itching for a fight" IS acting in bad faith. You are attempting to create a situation in which the only possible outcome is negative. Furthermore, while you are right that sometimes people assume evil when stupid is enough, the inverse of that is true as well. Frequently evil/bad faith is hidden behind a mask of "stupidity."
Your point is a good one . But the OP's postulate is this: I strongly suspect that this was done in bad faith and she really did not feel oppressed.
I think there is lots of room between your speculation and the OP's.
Frequently evil/bad faith is hidden behind a mask of "stupidity."
Paranoia is fun and all, but if you have no way to tell, why not assume better of people?
Suspecting and assuming aren't the same thing. An assumption is a conclusion. A suspicion is a question. An assumption would be to simply say "I think this was done in bad faith." Saying "I suspect" is saying, "There are circumstances here that smell fishy to me and make me wonder if this was done in bad faith." The fact that she instigated the situation is enough to justify suspicion that she had an ulterior motive. It's not proof positive. It is not enough to justify a conclusion that she definitely acted in bad faith, but certainly suspicion is warranted given the circumstances.
"Furthermore, while you are right that sometimes people assume evil when stupid is enough"
Evil and stupid are not mutually exclusive.
Turn your question around, why assume stupid when evil is enough?
I do think that younger members of the left (millennials and Gen Zers) have learned to effectively weaponize the word "unsafe"¹ to get what they want. It's so absurd that I think it can't be good faith; it is a choice to use that language because they know it triggers (pun intended) all sorts of benefits for them and penalties for those they dislike.
¹To bothsides it, so have cops, to justify their outrageous mistreatment of the public.
This is not a complete, full human being. This is an automaton, a trained quivering mass affecting damage so as to invoke silencing of opposition through government power.
"See how quivering I am, curled up in a ball in the corner? Silence them!"
Far from "not validating their feelings", or whatever the kids today say, she insults herself by putting herself in this position.
This skank does that because it works. All PC is case. All woke is case. Schools try to avoid ruinous litigation by appeasing them. If you really want to stop these, just beat the asses of judges. Do not kill them because they will just be replaced by the same thievin' scumbags. Beat their asses, to deter. Even allowing first pleading costs the public $100000 in money stolen from the public.
The NPC meme is dumb as hell. I also like how you think this came from training. As though it's widespread. It is not.
People are complicated, oftentimes they're dumb. No need to dehumanize idiots as not having volition.
My statements are not directed at her. They are directed at the political users who are happy to stimulate this type of affectation for their own gain.
Recall my larger picture complaints: "Oh no, look at this brain scan. Damage! Therefore government censorship is warranted!" This BS is the first half step in the grave.
And, sadly, it is moving along at a nice clip.
Not seeing a lot of gain to anyone here.
I'm also not seeing much of this neuroscience words are violence argument.
I agree with your points above about not dehumanizing people, etc. The only slight disagreement I have with you is your statement that there was no potential for gain for anyone here. Had the no contact orders stood, those students may have been (if you'll pardon the pun) barred from the bar. They may not have been able to practice law. There are many people who would consider it great gain to be able to block from the practice of law anybody who holds the views these students hold. Also, in our current culture, being able to call oneself a "victim" and show how you have been "discriminated against" etc. could be considered gain enough. Not saying that those were the MOTIVES in this case, but it would certainly count as "gain" for that political ideology, whether it was the motive or simply a fringe benefit.
"Plaintiff Perlot recently applied to sit for the State of Oregon bar exam. The application requires applicants to disclose any "no contact order[s]" they have received and warns that "[l]ack of complete candor" could lead to "denial of admission to the bar."
The application says, "Have you ever been subject to a temporary or permanent restraining order, including a stalking or no contact order?"
Presumably that means an order from a court, not a university, but you can understand the student's desire to be cautious.
Yes. Failing to disclose something to the bar that they think should've been disclosed can be an independent reason to deny you admission. You can get past many many past sins, but lying (as they see it) on your application is a dealbreaker.
Sure, but order in this context pretty clearly means court order.
I don’t think you have to disclose the fact that your gf told you that she better not catch you talking to that bitch again, for example.
Westlaw needs to create a new code for "snowflake law."
The girl is a complete loon, I pity her future clients.
The world is full of troubled people, alas. But the point, surely, is that the Univerity of Idaho entertained her lunacy.
Considering, the vast majority of hate-crimes like the slur on the classroom whiteboard, are created by the aggrieved 'victims'; it's likely she wrote it herself. To create a 'discussion' of these issues. Faux hate crimes from faux , and perpetually aggrieved people.
I, rather, hope she grows up. Lots of folks are idiots with more passion than sense when we're young.
She's definitely way on the right side of that bell curve, and acted like an angry drunk, except for victimhood. But life is full of lessons.
But it says quite a bit about the need to dehumanize some on here have that many are willing to fit her into a liberal strawman suit and write her off as irredeemably crazy.
Look at the media now. Look at the immaturity of certain public defender offices and the demands they’re making. Look at the administration of law schools like Yale and Georgetown and Stanford.
These people are getting older, but it seems a whole lot of them are not growing up.
Yeah, but ten or fifteen years ago we were saying, "Wait until these college students get into the real world and find that this sort of silliness won't fly." And a decade plus later, it turns out that they've bent the real world to their silliness. Not fully — there is reaction and pushback and they don't always get what they want. But the whole 'cancel culture' phenomenon has metastasized from campus to the real world.
This case may be one of the best arguments against the right to file anonymously that I've ever seen. I very much want to know who "Jane Doe" is because I never, ever want to risk being represented by someone so completely out of touch with reality.
+1^20
????
1^20==1
Good pick-up!
So let me get this straight...SHE approached THEM to ask about their beliefs, and they calmly answered her questions and then subsequently reached out to her to make sure she was ok? Those hateful, bigoted, evil people! No wonder she needed a no contact order! Their actions were reprehensible! How DARE they answer her questions and then ask if she's okay!?! Evil incarnate.
"So let me get this straight...SHE approached THEM to ask about their beliefs, and they calmly answered her questions and then subsequently reached out to her to make sure she was ok?"
Yep...somehow respectful disagreement is the new left's standard for "hate," lol...
Not just hate, "violent verbal abuse".
And
I wonder if the judge wished for once that he could just chew her out in court for being so melodramatic, and tell her to switch to an acting degree.
I agree that she should not have been allowed to proceed anonymously and it was cowardly of her to do so. Did the other side complain about that?
It appears she was not a litigant.
They define the acronym CLS, but not OCRI?
Office of Crying Ridiculous Ignoramuses?
It's in footnote 2 of the opinion, had you clicked on it. Office of Civil Rights and Investigation.
Thanks
Are they acronyms? Or merely abbreviations?
(I had been taught in school that an acronym had to be a word that one could pronounce. [scuba, unesco, etc with FBI being the wobbler--as it was always F-B-I for decades, and then people started also started pronouncing it "fibby."]. But I'm basing this totally on what Mrs Revness taught our 5th grade English class almost 40+ years ago, so I could be totally wrong about this. )
My recollection also could be faulty, but I believe all of these examples are abbreviations.
My understanding was that it not only was a set of letters that one could pronounce but also that formed words in common usage, especially if they were meaningful to the mission of the organization. Hence, I always considered NOW, MADD and SADD to be excellent examples of acronyms.
Being too lazy to confirm my understanding but wallowing in my conception of correct usage, the misuse of the acronym characterization has always been one of my pet peeves ...
Not quite. FBI, CIA, FDA and CDC are examples of initialisms because the initials are still pronounced separately.
You are correct that NOW, MADD, NASA and FEMA are acronyms - they are pronounced as a single word.
Abbreviations, on the other hand, include both initialisms and acronyms but also include other kinds of word shortenings such as Dr., Mr., govt., dept., St. and (self-referentially) abbr.
So you'll write about this but not Kennedy? Cool cool
Oh, I'm going to get to Kennedy -- among other things, I have to edit it down for my First Amendment casebook supplement. But (1) it's a huge case, with a lot of facets and implication (the final overruling of Lemon, the final rejection of the endorsement test, the controversy about which facts about the coach's prayers count, the employee speech question, the employee free exercise question, the question of when employee speech can be punished because it's coercive); (2) I'm still trying to figure out some of those dimensions (especially the question about how to deal with the facts); and (3) Kennedy's already been much in the news, and I'm not sure I have a lot to add on this. This decision, on the other hand, is considerably simpler (though still long), and I get to write about it before other people do.
Then I will pause my comments until the post is published. I appreciate the case will finally get written about.
I think this blog in particular has an outsized influence on conservative legal thinking, as evidenced by the oft listed citations to this blogs authors in the supreme court cases the past several years. As such, even if you think you do not have a lot to add simply stating your opinion and legal reasoning will have influence even if it repeats (in substance) analysis by others.
Even though the right outcome was reached, we've got to find a way to prevent these uber-sensitive snowflakes from inflicting so much process pain.
She seems nice.
Imagine if it had been the Islamic Law Society.
In Idaho? That's the type of "imagination" that gave us organized religion.
I'm guessing you've never been the the UofI. It's not called Moscow, ID for their love of Tchaikovsky or Solzhenitsyn.
3 undefineds in this normal piece of illogic.
Who is 'us'?
"Imagination" in quotes even?
And 'orgainized religion' wherein we see that poorly-educated Kirkland takes the organized to dismiss religion. So you can have a right 'religion" (if Kirkland lets you) but once it is organized BANG !! it is not true.
What a moron...and with the monomaniacal and megalamaniacal addons..
One comment stated "Gullible, superstitious, bigoted culture war casualties have rights, too." That applies to all sides, and most of the world. Western Civilization today has helped to effectively eliminated world slavery and has advanced women's rights, and in the waning of Western influence, slavery and subjugation of women will reappear in parts of the world. Migrants coming to the U.S. today see the current administration, financed by globalist money manipulators/CIA/FBI, that has hyper-racialized and radicalized society, using division and hate as their tools to gain world power. If you consider yourself part of a minority group, you sometimes join with other minorities and become a plurality that attacks the remainder. The strategy being pushed today is not unity, but is "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Soros said the EU is a failed experiment, so now he is one of the globalist advisors experimenting on you. It's all a power trip.
Jane reminds me of that ugly 'OFF' trans lawyer who has spent years going after MasterPiece cake.
This MAN thinks there is something not right with the owner of MasterPiece Cake
https://media.them.us/photos/60cb9c92808fdfe190808a10/16:9/w_1920,c_limit/image001.jpg
Because the Fall semester starts in most schools in August, it's generally important to get the yearly supplements done by mid-July. (The timetable has moved back in some measure for supplements that are delivered electronically.) And because a lot of key Supreme Court cases aren't decided until late June, the authors of supplements for Supreme-Court-heavy casebooks usually end up jamming on them in early July.