The Volokh Conspiracy
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Slippery Slope June: Legal-Cost-Lowering Slippery Slopes
[This month, I'm serializing my 2003 Harvard Law Review article, The Mechanisms of the Slippery Slope; in last week's posts, I laid out some examples, definitions, and general observations, and turned to a specific kind of slippery slope mechanism—cost-lowering slippery slopes. This week, I'll elaborate on that, and shift to some other mechanisms.]
Let us briefly revisit the argument that gun registration may increase the chances of gun confiscation. Today, gun confiscation would be hard to enforce, partly because of the Fourth Amendment. Searching all homes for some or all kinds of guns would be unconstitutional, a classic impermissible general search. This, in a sense, is a cost of confiscation—not a financial cost, but a legal cost that keeps confiscation from being performed efficiently.
{The legislature might still enact a gun ban, hoping that nearly all owners will voluntarily comply, planning to rely on informers, or recognizing that the ban would only be enforced gradually, as the gun owners somehow reveal themselves—for instance, by using a gun, either defensively or offensively. But such a legislative decision will be made less likely by the difficulty of enforcement, the public distaste for reliance on informers, and the possible public hostility to punishing even illegal gun owners when their gun ownership is revealed as a result of a legitimate defensive use.}
If, however, guns are first successfully registered, and are later banned, a house-to-house search of the homes of registered owners who haven't turned in their guns may well become constitutional. Your registration as the owner of a weapon may be seen as probable cause to believe that you have it; and one place you're likely to be keeping it is your home. This isn't a certainty—maybe the gun was stolen or lost, and you didn't report this to the police, or maybe you're keeping the gun in some other location—but a magistrate may find that it suffices for probable cause and issue a search warrant that would let the police search your home for the gun.
So gun registration (legislative decision A) would likely lead to some degree of public compliance with the registration requirement. This compliance has the legally significant effect of creating probable cause to search all registrants' homes, once guns are banned. This legally significant effect makes it easier to enforce the gun ban—thus making it more likely that such a ban will be enacted (legislative decision B).
Again, this scenario doesn't require us to assume that registration will be seen as morally indistinguishable from confiscation, that registration will set a precedent, or that registration will desensitize voters to confiscation. Decision A can make B more likely even if it doesn't change a single voter's, legislator's, or judge's mind about the moral propriety of gun prohibition or confiscation. Rather, the legally significant effect of registration can change the practical cost-benefit calculus surrounding prohibition, thus making prohibition more likely (though of course not certain).
{Of course, decision B might not be made even if A makes it easier; in some places, voters would oppose handgun bans even if they could be cheaply and legally enforced. But in other places, handgun bans may be popular—handguns had already largely banned in Washington, D.C. and Chicago, for instance, and there's strong support for handgun bans in parts of the Northeast—and if gun registration makes confiscation cheaper, it may also make confiscation more likely.}
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"So gun registration (legislative decision A) would likely lead to some degree of public compliance with the registration requirement."
"some degree" is probably the right way to put it. I think it's generally understood that gun registration laws are widely violated, even by otherwise law abiding citizens.
The general issue here is that the courts have a rather different notion of what sorts of laws about guns are 'constitutional' than the general population of gun owners do, and tend to regard gun laws as constitutionally illegitimate, and only obey them on prudential grounds.
In the case of laws whose purpose is to ease confiscation, prudence weighs on both sides of the decision whether to comply... I suppose this wouldn't be the case if the courts were actually enforcing the 2nd amendment with any vigor, taking confiscation off the table as a threat.
Interesting. It was my understanding the "gun registries" are illegal. Are you sure that you are not confusing them with background checks?
In PA it is illegal for any government or police agency to keep a registry of firearms per 18 Pa.C.S. § 6111.4 (Registration of firearms).
But the plan seems to be a federal law that would overturn the state law.
It is illegal under Federal law as well.
The Federal law applies only to Federal agencies. It does not prohibit state registries.
https://giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/policy-areas/owner-responsibilities/registration/
Is background check information a de facto registry in that I believe they must be retained for 25 years and there is a move afoot to change that to permanently retained?
My understanding is that the NICS, cleared background checks are supposed to be deleted after 24 hours. Rejections are retained indefinitely. It's the cleared checks you would need for a de facto registry.
The dealers have to maintain a log of sales, which gets taken by the feds if the dealer goes out of business. That's your real weak point.
The captured a lot of records over the years, especially when they banned license for people selling guns out of their homes. That one regulatory change closed most of the gun dealers in the country.
The background check information is actually legally prohibited from being retained, or used to create a registration list.
"In cases of NICS Audit Log records relating to allowed transactions, all identifying information submitted by or on behalf of the transferee will be destroyed within 24 hours after the FFL receives communication of the determination that the transfer may proceed. All other information, except the NTN and date, will be destroyed after not more than 90 days from the date of inquiry. "
"Limitation on use. The NICS, including the NICS Audit Log, may not be used by any Department, agency, officer, or employee of the United States to establish any system for the registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions or dispositions, except with respect to persons prohibited from receiving a firearm by 18 U.S.C. 922(g) or (n) or by state law. The NICS Audit Log will be monitored and reviewed on a regular basis to detect any possible misuse of NICS data. "
It became something of a scandal during the Clinton administration, because the BATF was violating that provision of the Brady law, ostensibly for "quality control" purposes. IIRC, the Obama administration similarly was caught violating it.
I think it's probably prudent to simply assume that the government retains these records in some fashion even though doing so would be illegal.
<A href="https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926"It's illegal for the US AG to enact or require anyone else to enact one as part of Chapter 44 (Firearms, 18 USC 921-944).
But that doesn't stop Congress from simply passing a law creating one some other way, or removing that law.
More relevantly, the FOPA does not prohibit state registration schemes that are created by the States themselves, rather than by the US AG.
Not sure what is meant by "a federal law that would overturn the state law".
Since regulating guns isn't a federal enumerated power, I don't understand how state laws could be pre-empted by federal action. Of course, hypothetically that wouldn't stop the federal government from implementing its own registry, independent of any state (ignoring any obvious 2A issues, which I'm sure they would be if such a federal law were passed), and obviously the non-commandeering principle forbids the feds from ordering the states to do it for them.
An interesting federalism question for any state with its own strong RKBA amendment is its constitution, whether it could resist this federal encroachment into a fundamentally state recognized right (and yes, this question also theoretically pertains to abortion).
As has been pointed out downstream the fed gov't has expanded beyond it's constitutionally stated duties all over the place especially on the last 100 years.
Gay marriage (marriage is not explicitly defined in the constitution) was illegal in many states and those laws were overturned by Oberkfell.
Not sure gun registry would be so restrained either. You can own a gun , you just need to register it. And so one and so on, they'll heap a lot of roadblocks if allowed.
"Since regulating guns isn't a federal enumerated power, I don't understand how state laws could be pre-empted by federal action."
Through the "nor prohibited by it to the States" part of the 10th amendment, and the enabling legislation clause of the 14th. Since the 14th amendment incorporated the 2nd amendment against the states, gun control is now one of the powers "prohibited by it to the States", and Congress is empowered by the 14th amendment to enforce that by statute.
So, while the federal government can't mandate that states register guns, it certainly could mandate that they refrain from registering them.
Well, back when I lived in Michigan, I think we nominally didn't have gun registration. We had mandatory "safety checks", which conspicuously didn't do anything to check the safety of your gun, but did record your name and the model and serial number.
As with most of the left's proposals, every "common sense" steps is needs another "common sense" step until your rights become a nullity.
The ultimate "slippery slope" is the passage of more and more laws as the answer to a problem. This is done by legislators to justify their existence and too often accepted by the populace as the answer to fix what they think is broken (except when it directly affects them; think speed limits).
We don't need more laws, what we need is for people to do their jobs (think police in Uvalde) and the enforcement of existing law (think immigration law).
It might also help if "equal justice under the law" was a practice not a promise.
What is the cause of all slaughters, lawyer geniuses? Weakness. No exception. I can't believe the stupidity of this profession, or its contempt for ordinary people's common sense.
I was shocked when Ukraine surrendered its nuclear weapons. See the result. Never give your nuclear weapons let alone your pistol. You are putting a big target on yourself. Gun owners should become muchore assertive if you know what I mean. Trying to avoid offending sensitive crybaby Eugene.
Is replying to your own post the same as talking to yourself?
Hi.Bummie. I am only thinking of you. This is a convenent way to find all my hopes, dreams and ideas in one location. Perhaps I just care too much.
Here is a slippery slope. After they come for your guns they will come for your trucks, hammers and knoives. Each has been used in mass slaughters.
Exception fallacy, genius lawyers. Go back take a high school iCritical Thinking course you geniuses. 165 million gun owners of 400 million guns got through yesterday safely. Ban cars after 40000 people died in crashes. Ban walking after 1000s fell, cracked their heads and died. The anti gun jihad is part of the slippery slope of the slow Commie takeover of the country.
I am serious. Eugene should go to night high school for a course in Critical Thinking. He would be making a fool of himself much less often. It's sad and embarrasiing how stupid this profession is. Or buy a book, used, on Amazon for cheap. This is ridiculous and sad.
Judges should conceal carry.
https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/retired-judge-found-zip-tied-chair-executed-cops-suspect-one-many-targets?ats_es=731571b3134386edfd354e86a103b590
... do you imagine Prof. Volokh is arguing in support of gun control laws?
There is a legal slope that unfortunately could be overcome by legislation and 5 of 9 SCOTUS black robes saying "common sense" gun laws don't infringe on 2A. Even if they actually infringe quite a bit.
Based on statements made by many of the alleged "common sense" folks they don't care about the constitution. Unfortunately 3 of the 9 SCOTUS justices don't either. And Roberts can be real squishy.
Which leaves us with a margin of 1. These folks , especially Thomas aren't spring chickens.
If this country had common sense Joe Biden would still be in Delafuckingnoware instead of the White House.
People vote on the basis of the information they have, and virtually every media outlet was all in on getting Biden elected. Well, getting Trump out of the White house, but it amounted to the same thing. They very carefully curated the data available to most voters.
So the voting population, unless they were fairly aggressive about doing their own research, would mostly think Biden was a moderate Democrat with no extreme views, and a standup guy, no scandals.
Polls have shown that a large enough percentage of the population were ignorant of Hunter's laptop, and would have considered it important, that just that act of media suppression would have been enough to swing the election by itself.
I agree in general regarding the effort to get rid of Trump no matter what and the role the press played in that but it wasn't as if Biden was an unknown quantity after serving for decades in the senate and having two failed prior runs for president.
He wasn't an unknown quantity to political junkies. Most voters aren't political junkies.
That may or may not be true.
I would argue that you can't have been in political life as a senator, vice president and two time candidate for president and be an unknown except to political junkies.
His election even given all the help from the media was more of a squeaker than many will admit and was the result of some very unusual voting and vote counting.
You're a political junkie. I'm a political junkie. The difference is that I realize that the amount of attention I pay to politics is unusual. You seem to have an exaggerated notion of it. Your average voter was doing good to just recognize Biden's name if it was mentioned, and maybe recall that he was a Democrat.
Most people forget all this stuff in between elections, and have to be reminded of it. If the media don't feel like reminding you that somebody has a reputation as a not terribly bright gaffe machine, your average voter won't be aware of it.
Never thought of myself as a political junkie. Just someone trying to keep abreast of the things that affect my life and that of my family. Maybe you're right that I give too much credit to the electorate as a whole (both the living and dead). Wish it were otherwise.
TDS. Folks were voting against Trump not for Biden. They didn't pay much attention to what Biden was for. He was in his basement most of the time. He doesn't really know what he's for.
AND also very suspicious election shenanigans in the swing states. Fairest election in history! HA
They could always fall back on "the Government's interest outweighs" number that they pulled on the 4th Amendment in regards to DUI checkpoints.
Yea, that was a constitutional violation (Rehnquist's word) that was allowed because it was only a "little" one and "something has to be done"!
Now we are definitely in "something has to be done" territory according to the gun controllers but the "little" part doesn't seem to apply yet.
Still worrisome precedent
TDS and propaganda. Many folks just watch local news (doesn't matter where you live they are all liberal biased) or possibly one of the network national news, even more biased.
When you try and discuss an issue (nicely) they can only get about a sentence into the issue which they can't defend their viewpoint and blah blah blah "Trump" gets inserted. With zero relevance.
Propaganda is powerful.
I didn't realize you were such a big fan of Pete Buttigieg.
Booty Judge, the "Child Trafficker"??? I get it, the mother just voluntarily gave up her babies for nothing??
How about tamping down slippery slopes on guns altogether, by acknowledging what ought to be obvious. As a premise, notice that the slippery slope runs two ways: in one direction toward gun confiscation at the extreme, in locations where gun rights are prized above public safety; in an opposite direction toward forced suppression of gun controls at the extreme, in locations where public safety is prized above gun rights.
At present, the slope seems to be tilting more in the latter direction than the former—toward legal bars to gun controls. Obviously—as evidenced by EV's recent posts—that has not dampened the impulse among pro-gun advocates to keep gun-rights advocates in a lather over hypothetical down-slope confiscation.
I foresee a problem. Overreach in either direction is probably as likely to spur organized resistance, just as the abortion issue has done among anti-abortion constituencies. With Roe v. Wade still the law, all across America we see states with their own laws in defiance.
Nobody doubts that if gun confiscation were the law, similar state-level resistance would become the norm among many states. Why then assume that if gun controls are foreclosed by U.S. Supreme Court decisions, that state-level defiance of the Court would not be equally likely over gun controls? If the Court tells New York that concealed carry rules which apply in Texas must also apply in New York, why wouldn't New York do for guns what Texas did on abortion, and say, "No thanks, we will do it our way, and pass gun control laws which suit us, and enforce them here. Visiting Texans should take note."
To look at the problem more generally, right now there are gathering crises centered around two contested sets of rights, abortion and guns. In each case there is passionate disagreement about prior constitutional interpretations, about what those rights say and mean, about whether such rights even exist.
Many among anti-abortion activists assert vehemently that no right to privacy is even in the constitution. Likewise, many among anti-gun activists deny that any gun right except a militia right exists. Both groups honestly believe the other group has got illegitimate readings from the Court, which ought to be rolled back. Both groups have colorable support for their arguments.
Enter Judge Alito, who seems about to issue a decision saying in effect that the rights contest over abortion ought to be decided not by the Supreme Court, but by politics, state-by-state. Everyone now expects that outcome.
Imagine then how incongruous and even outrageous it will seem to gun control advocates if the same Court decides to force a different principle of decision for guns—a decision to bar most or all gun controls. On the gun control side, any such ruling would look paradoxical, partisan, and utterly illegitimate. It would look ripe for defiance—just as abortion rights decisions have been defied by many states, apparently successfully.
Thus, the fear of a slippery slide toward no gun controls at all would be realized. Agitation for defiance would begin in earnest.
Why not make this fortuitous intersection of issues an opportunity, to level slopes on both sides. Use the same principle of decision for each of these like-founded controversies. If states are to be at liberty to decide abortion questions according to politics, because constitutional answers are ruled out for want of clarity and agreement, make that reasoning apply to gun-control questions too. Give states political freedom to legislate as they please about guns. Put both controversies to sleep by the same method at the same time. Let Texas and New York be treated equally, by giving each political freedom over both abortion questions and gun control questions.
Comments in reply which insist that these two controversies are not alike will not be interesting. Such viewpoint-centered reasoning is not as useful politically as recognition that from the point of view of the advocates involved, each has a fully legitimate controversy, and each has strong arguments.
"Both groups have colorable support for their arguments."
Not so much. Abortion is totally unmentioned in the Constitution. The right of the People to keep and bear arms, by contrast, is quite explicit. Really, the only reason anybody takes the arguments against it even a little seriously is motivated reasoning.
The motivated reasoning against it IS quite strong though, and benefits from opposition to gun ownership being especially common in the legal and political communities, much more so than the general public.
Jeez, not "Brevity" much?
"Comments in reply which insist that these two controversies are not alike will not be interesting. Such viewpoint-centered reasoning is not as useful politically as recognition that from the point of view of the advocates involved, each has a fully legitimate controversy, and each has strong arguments."
Spoken like a true leftist. Framing any discussion in your terms.
Agree. No, the arguments aren't necessarily strong. Analogous to no leftists being able to answer the question "what is a woman".
It's easy but the arguments that it isn't are not strong at all.
At least without a constitutional amendment repealing or restricting 2A. That "shall not be infringed " part is pretty absolute. Which they aren't talking about because it has zero chance.
1...2...3 to lame "militia" argument
With regard to "common sense" gun control:
From EV's new post above:
A principle once surrendered in a particular case is no longer firm, but trembles at every new attack. As then, in treating of great principles, we would willingly say, "esto perpetua [let it be perpetual -EV]:" So in resisting the first encroachments, our rule should be "obsta principiis [resist at the beginning -EV]."
"Stop innovation in its early stage,
For when the upstart thing grows strong from age,
No time, nor strength of tenets stop its rage."
When I wrote that, I wondered who would be the first to spring the trap. Congratulations Bumble! You fell for it.
Now reread the remark you quoted, and show where it says anything about one side or the other.
What your unwary approach demonstrates is how deeply built into right wing politics is the assumption that only right-wing views have legitimacy. For Bumble and Bellmore, not even the courts ought to give an even break to anyone but right-wingers—who can be relied upon not to notice that would not be what, "even break," means.
Might views of that sort—especially if vindicated by the Supreme Court—put the nation on a slippery slope toward dangerous conflict? I think it could.
If the "common sense" or "motivated reasoning?" arguments are that sensible and that convincing there should be no problem with a constitutional amendment right?
We've had 27 of them. The reason for the Bill of Rights, versus remaining silent, was to make sure these very important rights are explicit and "shall not be infringed"
Banning alcohol at one time was popular enough to warrant an amendment.
The fact that the sensible and motivated folks don't take this approach makes me suspect its not all that popular.
"Remember how we needed an amendment to ban liquor, but somehow the Feds can just ban other 'substances' without one, even when they're not in interstate commerce [Raich]?
Yeah, that was cool."
Oh I agree. The constitution intent was to have an extremely limited fed gov't. Only what was stated with all else left to the states or the people (10A).
We've wandered quite a ways from that. Note that any tax is Ok but 16A was needed at the time to establish the income tax. And prohibition was not possible at the time without an amendment. We also force people to contribute to Social Security.
However 2A is an explicitly stated right so it will pose a bigger hurdle to the gun controllers.
A bigger parchment barrier. The actual hurdle for the gun controllers is a hell of a lot of armed Americans who'd be pissed off if they seriously came after their guns. If not for that the Heller court would have probably decided differently, it's not like the judiciary like the 2nd amendment, it was just too popular with too many people who cared to
For a long time there they were pursuing a strategy of just making gun ownership inconvenient enough that, with each generation, fewer Americans would own guns. Eventually the percentage would drop low enough that even if they all voted as a bloc we'd lose elections anyway, they could ramp up the harassment, and in another generation or two we'd be few enough to just crush with police actions.
But they screwed up, gun ownership started getting more popular again, now even left-wingers are getting involved, so that route to disarmament is off the table.
It seems to me they're now actually working on making the military reliable, now, so that they can accomplish violently what stealth failed at.
"t seems to me they're now actually working on making the military reliable, now, so that they can accomplish violently what stealth failed at."
That is a frightening thought but if it came to that could the military be depended to support such a move? Historically firing upon your own citizens has not alweys worked out well.
That's why they're working on making it reliable. You may not have noticed, but they've been purging the officer corps for years now.
You mean by indoctrinating them with the concept of civilian control of the military? The horrors.
No, I mean by getting rid of the officers who aren't left-wingers, or who merely dissented about the wisdom of an order while obeying.
Obama got the ball rolling, but Biden resumed the policy.
Um, the person who wrote the story at that link is mentally ill, so perhaps you should find an actual news source?
At best that should make you search for confirming info, not just slam into the comment box.
I am glad for the reprise of Slippery Slopes. When it was serialized before, I missed an early post, and meant to get back to it, then more posts were published, and one thing led to another, and I just gave up. I expect Prof. Volokh has a section on responses to slippery slopes, so I apologize in advance if the following is redundant or incomplete.
When you want to avoid the problems of a slippery slope, I see three strategies: roughening the surface (including terracing and cross-plowing); channeling/trenching; and regrading. In the context of gun regulation, there has already been some 'channeling' in the distinction between automatic and semi-automatic firearms. The distinction seems to be shared, at least rhetorically, by many who oppose current proposals. I have seen remarks like, "But automatic weapons are already outlawed--or at least difficult to casually obtain--so regulation A is unnecessary/counter-productive." The desire to do something has been channeled, leaving most of the slope untrod, and therefore not slipped upon. Stephen Lathrop alluded to the 'regrading' aspect in his remark about "level the slopes," but the ultimate regrading would be a Constitutional amendment. It would not end controversies, but they would mostly have a different character: whether regulation A is or is not consistent with the 28th (29th?) Amendment, rather than whether A will lead to B.
On second thought, I suppose, it could just shift the location of the slippery slope, to whether regulation A, consistent with the Modified Right to Keep and Bear Arms Sometimes, might lead to regulation B, which would be inconsistent with the MRKBAS.
Much of the agitation over proposed new regulations is a version of 'roughening the surface,' throwing down small dry objects to increase friction; and I leave it to smarter folks to lay out what procedures might be 'terracing' and what might only be 'plowing across the slope.'
The few "MRKBAS" amendment proposals I've seen left "sometimes" defined as "While you're enlisted in the military, and told to carry a gun."
So there wouldn't be a lot of scope for that argument, if any of them actually passed. Which they won't.
That's why their primary aim at this point is just getting the Court to reverse Heller, and instead impose Stevens' dissent. (Which did limit the 'right' to only when you were enlisted in the military.) If necessary by packing the Court.
Biden backed down on that, but I think it's pretty much a given at this point that the next time we have a Democratic Congress and President, the Supreme court is going to end up packed, unless we amend the Constitution to prevent it before that happens.
During the first couple of years of Trump's administration, when the Republicans had that 'trifecta', I advocated that they initiate exactly that amendment, and tell the Democrats outright that either they helped get it sent to the states, or the Republicans would take that as proof positive the Democrats intended Court packing, and preemptively do it themselves.
I still think the Republicans will have to go that route at the earliest opportunity, or just accept that the Court IS going to be packed as soon as the Democrats are again in a position to do it.
Well I believe that is 2 years probation. D's won't keep the house this time around IMO. They may keep the senate. That takes us to 2024 a presidential year.
I'm thinking we may be able to skip through 2024 since I think revoking 2A is just not popular.
The militia argument is ridiculous. So we needed a Bill of Right to take away a right? It would be the only BOR like that and in 1790 I think interpretation in that way would have started another revolution.
That's the point of doing it through the Supreme court, the point of all 'living constitution' rulings: They don't HAVE to be popular with the general public, just a majority of the Court.
If Democrats were willing to settle for what was popular, we'd still have a limited government and a Constitution that was meaningfully in force!
What could go wrong? Worked out so well at Waco!