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Florida Bans Residential Picketing with "Intent to Harass or Disturb" -- but What Exactly Does That Mean?
A content-neutral ban on all residential picketing would be constitutional; but the "intent to harass or disturb" limitation may make the law unconstitutional or ineffective.
The law, signed by Gov. Ron DeSantis yesterday, provides:
(1) As used in this section, the term "dwelling" means a building, structure, or portion thereof which is occupied as, or designed or intended for occupancy as, a residence by one or more families.
(2) It is [a misdemeanor] for a person to picket or protest before or about the dwelling of any person with the intent to harass or disturb that person in his or her dwelling….
(4) Before a person may be arrested for a violation of this section, a law enforcement officer … must go as near to the person as may be done with safety and shall command any person picketing or protesting before or about the dwelling of a person to immediately and peaceably disperse. If any such person does not thereupon immediately and peaceably disperse, he or she may be arrested for a violation of this section.
Now a flat ban on all "focused picketing taking place solely in front of a particular residence" would be constitutional, as the Court expressly held in Frisby v. Schultz (1988), interpreting an ordinance that used the "before or about" language. (In Carey v. Brown (1980), the Court had held that a content-based residential picketing ban was unconstitutional, but Frisby held that content-neutral ones are fine.)
But this statute wouldn't ban all such residential picketing, but only picketing "with the intent to harass or disturb." I appreciate the desire to narrow the ordinance; consider Justice Stevens' dissent in Frisby, which faulted the ordinance for making it a crime "for a fifth grader to carry [a] sign" outside a friend's home saying, "Get well Charlie—our team needs you." But I think this attempt to narrow it might actually make it unconstitutionally content-based, unconstitutionally vague, or perhaps effectively meaningless.
The problem is that the ordinance doesn't define "harass," and the closest state law analog—the Florida stalking statute—defines "harass" to "mean[] to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person which causes substantial emotional distress to that person and serves no legitimate purpose." What counts as a "legitimate purpose"? The stalking cases haven't set forth a categorical test, and indeed acknowledge its uncertainty (and circularity):
Whether the purpose for contact is "legitimate" is evaluated on a case-by-case basis and the term "legitimate" seems to be lacking a precise definition. However, courts have generally held that contact is legitimate when there is a reason for the contact other than to harass the victim.
But they have recognized that a good range of communication, including communication to a person and not just about the person, is viewed as having a "legitimate purpose." Indeed,
- One Florida appellate case made clear that a wife's "contact[ing her husband's lover] by phone and by messages and 'friend' requests on Facebook" to "tell[ the lover] to stay away from [the husband]" was a legitimate purpose.
- Another held the same as to a girlfriend warning her boyfriend's ex-girlfriend to "stay away" from him.
- A third held that calling one's daughter's dance team coach to complain about the "daughter's participation in a dance team competition" "was a legitimate purpose."
- A fourth held the same about "six text messages" "asking him to repay $10,000."
It seems that protesting outside someone's home to tell the person to vote a particular way on a political proposal (if the person is a legislator) or to stop performing abortions (if the person is an abortion provider) or to change corporate policy (if the person is a business executive) would likewise be a "legitimate purpose" under that term. (The Florida stalking law also specifically says that another element of the stalking statute, "course of conduct," "does not include constitutionally protected activity such as picketing or other organized protests," but that is not itself within the definition of "harass" in that stalking law.)
It thus seems to me that there are three options here:
- An intent to communicate to the picketed person that one thinks his behavior is improper (whether having an affair, failing to repay money, acting a particular way as a dance coach, or doing anything else) is a "legitimate purpose," in which case the "intent to harass" branch of the law would do little about residential picketing.
- An intent to communicate to the picketed person that one thinks his behavior is improper is not a "legitimate purpose"; but where is that in the statute, especially given how "legitimate purpose" has been defined in the cases under the Florida stalking statute?
- An intent to communicate to the picketed person that one thinks his behavior is improper is sometimes a "legitimate purpose" and sometimes not a legitimate purpose, depending on whether one is communicating about something one has a legitimate interest in (e.g., the target's having an affair with one's husband). But that would likely be unconstitutionally vague, and likely unconstitutionally content-based.
Of course, the law also bans residential picketing with the intent to disturb, which might potentially be much broader. But that term appears to be entirely undefined within Florida law, which further suggests that it might be unconstitutionally vague. (I did find one other Florida statute that spoke of "harass[ing] or disturb[ing]," but that had to do with manatees.) Would, say, picketing outside a legislator's home aiming at persuading the legislator to vote a particular way be viewed as intent to disturb, or as intent to persuade? What if there's evidence that the real purpose for the picketing was to draw media attention?
More broadly, the Supreme Court held in Reed v. Town of Gilbert (2015) that statutory distinctions that "defin[e] regulated speech by its function or purpose" may be content-based, presumably if the function or purpose relates to the content of the speech. And since speech said with "intent to disturb" would often disturb precisely because of its disturbing content, that would mean the statute is content-based; as I mentioned, the Court has held that content-based restrictions on residential picketing are content-based.
Nor can one respond by saying that all residential picketing is inherently intentionally disturbing because it intentionally intrudes on the target's privacy: After all, the law doesn't ban all residential picketing, but only residential picketing conducted "with the intent to harass or disturb that person in his or her dwelling," which suggests that the legislature views some residential picketing as intentionally disturbing and some as not.
So it looks like, by trying to limit the scope of the residential picketing ban, the Florida Legislature might have either made it unconstitutional or ineffective. Perhaps this is a flaw in the Court's First Amendment jurisprudence; again, consider Justice Stevens' view, both in his Frisby dissent and in his Carey dissent, that content discrimination that narrows the scope of such laws is a virtue and not a vice. Indeed, Justice Stevens's dissent in Frisby suggested that the better approach is for such laws to be limited "to conduct that unreasonably interferes with the privacy of the home and does not serve a reasonable communicative purpose"—something that might be pretty close to the Florida "intent to harass" language. But Justice Stevens was dissenting, and for better or worse the majority opinion, with its insistence on content neutrality, is the law.
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One person quietly holding sign that says "I don't like your politics" is a political protest.
100 people screaming through bullhorns "we're going to kill you" is harassment.
Now, let's find the magic number and volume level that defines the boundary.
(just for the record; I have a hard time thinking of a mob outside anyone's house as peacefully assembling to petition the Government for a redress of grievances)
The Left has only personal attack to persuade. The facts abandoned it 100 years ago. The hideous outcomes of the Commie rent seekers were established decades ago.
What remains is quite difficult. What is the dose response curve of the size of government? That takes hard empirical testing and re-adjustment. No one is willing to do that work on behalf of the public. Everyone is just trying to impose their view, which coincidentally, are quite lucrative.
You need to re-read the constitution.
The right to peaceably assemble and the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances are separate rights.
Protest the government official at the office. Terrorizing of the little kids in the home is the aim of the vile feminists and the enemy Left. Terrorism works. The scumbag lawyer will have the victim arrested if he defends himself when threatened by the Commies at home. Start by terrorizing the scumbag lawyer at home. See how the scumbag likes it.
Yes, redress of grievances in the government official's official capacity, at their official workplace. Not at their homes.
About these hundred people screaming “We’re going to kill you” through bullhorns. Are they in the room with you now? Are they always around, or do you only see them during times of high stress? Do you recognize any of them?
Wouldn't there be a somewhat analogous definition of "disturb" in a disturbing the peace statute which would cover 100 people screaming or chanting with or without bullhorns, while peacefully standing holding signs or marching may not qualify?
Since Florida already has a general 'disturbing the peace' statute, wouldn't that make this statute against picketing redundant? In other words, surplusage? And isn't there a judicial rule that says courts are not supposed to pick the interpretation that requires you to assume that the legislature made such a mistake? If so, then while I agree that it should be analogous, I'm not sure that you can simply assume that.
Is this going to be like the traffic law where a few days after DeathSantis signs it Cuban-Americans blocked traffic and nothing happened to them?? Or how Republicans celebrated the Freedumb Truckers blocking traffic?? Once again, DeathSantis killed more Americans than Osama Bin Laden fighting with public health officials.
The states with the tightest lockdowns had the highest death rates from Covid. The resulting price of the deaths of despair is still being paid today.
That has to do with the initial wave!! Upwards of 30% of those hospitalized died in the initial wave. Iirc on 1/2021 Florida had around 20k deaths and NY had around 40k deaths and that is when the vaccines were introduced and Republicans started rejecting masking…and now FL and NY have pretty much the exact same Covid death rate.
Continuing to us misleading metrics to blame republican policies
NY age 65+ population = 2,448,352
NY age 65+ covid deaths 44,135 or 1.803% of age 65+ population
Florida age 65+ population 4,849,708
Florida age 65+ covid deaths 4,849,708 or 0.961% of age 65+ population.
a mask study - let me know when you find a mask study that shows masks actually work
https://healthy-skeptic.com/2021/06/26/another-great-chart-on-maskings-value/
In the meantime - our newest Supreme court Justice response to the dobbs leak
Q: What was your response when you when you saw the draft leak [of a Supreme Court opinion that would strike down Roe v. Wade]?
A: Everybody who is familiar with the court and the way in which it works was shocked by that. Such a departure from normal order.
Q: Do you think it was a good thing or a bad thing?
A: I can’t answer that.
Q: What do you think about peaceful protests outside of Supreme Court justices’ homes?
A: I don’t have any comment.
I would have really confused her by asking if she thought a woman was responsible for the leak?
In her defense, she is not a sociologist
Those seem like good answers for a judge to give.
What a shocking turn of events.
The party of "Free Speech" strikes again!
If the only "free speech" you like is residential picketing...
Weird, no one seems to actually be saying that.
It would be easier for the targets of the 'protest' to just call the cops and say that someone in the crowd mis-gendered them. The entire group would be swept up and sent to the camps.
On the other hand, the use of the word "intent" is important.
"Officer, it is not my intent to harass or disturb anyone -- I merely wish to engage in political speech on a public sidewalk of the sort that has been an open public forum since time immemorial. The subjective feelings of the occupant of the residence are irrelevant to my intent."
"Officer, it is not my intent to harass or disturb anyone -- I merely wish to engage in political speech on a public sidewalk of the sort that has been an open public forum since time immemorial. The subjective feelings of the occupant of the residence are irrelevant to my intent."
What you might claim your intent was is of far less importance than what your actions indicate your intent was.
I'm not sure that's generally true; fact-finding about includes evidence via testimony and implications based on actions.
Lots of scenarios where juries find such testimony credible.
Lots of scenarios where juries find such testimony credible.
Not when that testimony is directly and overwhelmingly contradicted by the actions of the one testifying...unless they're a really shitty jury.
Activist tactics are very often a form of harassment.
That’s one big reason to automatically discount whenever activists or their political allies talk about "respect" or any other mark of good behavior. They behave terribly and/or enable and support terrible behavior. Do not ever listen to anything they say about demanding "respect" or civil behavior unless they exhibit respect and behave civilly themselves.
So what's your policy upshot here?
If someone talks about respect, is that legal evidence that it's an illegal protest?
Or are you just hostile to protests that talk about respect personally, and wanted to share?
I'm hostile to any "protest" led by people who look like this.
https://thehill.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/05/abortion-rights_rally_utah_050522ap-rick-bowmer_lgbtq-roe.jpg?w=1280
I dont think many of those women will every have a fetus to abort
The object when you are picketing is to piss the picketee off...and to let the public know that the picketed object is a detestable creepy thing from the nether world.
A gaggle of us here in Asheville are getting ready to picket Ingles Markets for selling high-priced t-bone steaks that are as tough and as edible as old leather. We want them to feel like they have been harassed, humiliated, disturbed, ridiculed, and their business caused to plummet. Then maybe they'll stop taking our money for bad meat. It's weird. Their Porterhouse steaks are tender.
..so save your time and energy and only but the porterhouse steaks.
The object of a protest is to persuade. Or it should be. MLK was a recent movement that understood this completely. Which is why he mostly succeeded despite the odds.
If you’re blocking traffic or burning shit or screaming at people’s houses you’re not accomplishing anything but throwing a fit. Nobody ever says “I think I’ll agree with that asshole that made me miss my flight”.
I assume this is more aimed at intimidating the justices w.r.t. the SC. Or more generally, to make it unappealing for the individual whose residence is being protested to continue whatever they are doing to get protested. I agree it isn't good at persuading third parties that the cause is good, I think many neutral parties would empathize with the person whose neighborhood was being converted to a circus.
That's why, in a healthy non-liberal society, good, conservative white men like Mark McCloskey would not be prosecuted for doing what they did. In a healthy society, he would have been authorized and even encouraged to mow those losers down with his AR-15.
These are your peeps, Volokh Conspirators. Violent, antisocial, disaffected bigots. This is the audience you have cultivated.
This is the reason your deans regret your hiring and wish you would leave.
Except Prof. Blackman's dean, of course. That school likely must take all and all comers.
In business, money talks. The business is listening.
In government, no one listens because they are arrogant, elitist twits, surrounded by men with guns, their sole source of validation.
If you dislike the food at Ingles Markets, you have a reasonable right to picket the market. What you should not have is the right to doxx employees there and picket their homes, intimidating their families and neighbors.
And if our picketing of Ingles Markets does not achieve satisfactory results, we'll stand on the sidewalk in Biltmore Forest by the country club where little Bob Ingle lives and picket that little shifty obnoxious leprechaun.
I'm inclined to agree; though after Austin, determining whether a law is content-based is going to be trickier.
It seems that they could've just dispensed with this limiting language and just enforced the law based on complaints. Residential picketing is extraordinarily rare to begin with.
Lots of states prohibit picketing an abortion center.
What difference?
Hi, Queenie. Preferred pronoun, please.
Hey, Queenie. NYS has the tightest gun control laws. Ask the survivors and families from that supermarket shooting how they made a difference. Only the dude at the scene with a gun made a difference.
All law abiding citizens should receive gun safety training in high school. They all should conceal carry. If they fail to fire on a violent offender they should receive a $100 fine.
QA--
Ref Supreme Court justices--
(1) Some of them have protected intimidation by anti-abortion extremists, including in residential neighborhoods (though not at one *exact* address). This may be a teachable moment.
(2) Let the justices negotiate with Congressional leaders and the Administration on a residential picketing ban they would uphold as Constitutional to protect *everyone*, not just a handful of privileged officials.
A fair point.
Weak point IMO. I think many would understand protesting at a place that is relevant to the thing being protested. So protesting at a segregated lunch counter, sure. Protesting at a bus stop (or bus terminal) about a people needing to ride in the back of the bus, sure. Protesting the abortion decision at the Supreme Court, or in front of congress, sure. Disrupting a residential neighborhood, randomly blocking traffic, or rioting and looting for that matter probably get less sympathy towards a cause.
Yep that’s the thing. The protesters need to take into account the impact their actions will have on the neutrals and people on the other side. Those are the minds they need to change. Performative protest for the approval for others on your side is pointless. They already agree with you.
BLM had huge favorability ratings after George Floyd until the riots started, then their popularity plunged. That’s been a consistent problem with them - they are constantly given the moral high ground and every time they piss it away.
I was fine with the NFL and NBA players kneeling - 1A and all - but after a time how right or wrong they were stopped mattering. If was obvious that they were losing the PR war and doing more harm than good so they should have stopped.
Protest as rage events like those at the justices homes is pointless.
What is your opinion of relentless, boorish anti-abortion protesters?
Civil disobedience used to be about protesting a law by publicly violating it in a peaceful fashion, so that the law itself would be exposed to the public as indefensible. Think Ghandi filling a pan with sea water and letting it dry, to protest the British salt monopoly. Or the lunch counter protests here.
Today it's more a form of extortion. Some random law is violated in a maximally obnoxious manner so that the public will give you what you want in return for your ceasing to be a pain in the ass.
He does not seem like a Democrat.
I mean, literally, only Democrats did that.
What party is David Duke?
I mean this is a silly game, but you're playing it badly.
Both Democrat and Republican if you count his entire political career.
He nominally rejected antisemitism and racism when he first became a Republican.
He never won an election as a Republican after reverting to open racism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Duke
LOL, you're also trying to play that dumb game?
Dude, we all know which party the white nationalists, including David Duke, like nowadays. And that party seems to be at least willing to condone them!
No, Brett, civil disobedience has not become a form of extortion.
And that party seems to be at least willing to condone them!
Claiming that the GOP condones David Duke might not be the worst and/or most stupid bit of bullshit you've spewed here, but it has to be a contender.
Richard Spencer - the current generation's leading white nationalist - endorsed Joe Biden. He even posted a picture of his ballot voting for Biden.
Seems the Republicans are too pro-Israel and not anti-Semite enough for his crowd.
Oh, yeah, what were you saying about white supremacists and political parties?
certainly was extortion with the monies paid by businesses to BLM, just slightly different format - same intention and same result