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Sen. Warren's Asking Amazon to Stop Carrying Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s COVID Book Likely Not Unconstitutional
So a federal judge held yesterday.
From Judge Barbara Rothstein's opinion yesterday in Kennedy v. Warren (W.D. Wash.), which strikes me as consistent with the precedents:
Plaintiffs Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., Joseph Mercola, Ronald Cummins, and Chelsea Green Publishing, Inc. ("Chelsea Green") brought a motion seeking a preliminary injunction against Defendant Senator Elizabeth Warren, in both her individual and official capacity, claiming that Defendant Warren violated Plaintiffs' First Amendment rights when she wrote a letter to Amazon criticizing a book Plaintiffs had published….
On May 16, 2021, Chelsea Green published The Truth About COVID-19: Exposing the Great Reset, Lockdowns, Vaccine Passports, and the New Normal, a book co-authored by plaintiffs Mercola and Cummins, and featuring a foreword by plaintiff Kennedy. The book was or is sold by Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and other unspecified booksellers. According to Plaintiffs, the book was at one point classified as a bestseller by USA Today and the Wall Street Journal. Plaintiffs describe the book as "sharply condemn[ing] government COVID policies, including lockdowns and vaccine mandates" and "cit[ing] scientific studies and highly credible news sources for the facts it reports."
On September 7, 2021, Defendant Warren wrote a letter to Amazon that described The Truth About COVID-19 as containing "misinformation about COIVD-19 vaccines and treatments." The letter criticized Amazon for selling and effectively promoting the book via the algorithms that govern its website's search engine and "Best Seller" rankings. For example, searches on Amazon.com for generic terms like "COVID-19" and "vaccine" often yielded Plaintiffs' book as the first result. Additionally, the book was labeled a "Best Seller" on the site and ranked as the "#1 Best Seller" in the "Political Freedom" subcategory of books. Defendant Warren's letter also identified several similar books, not authored by Plaintiffs, that were labeled as bestsellers and that also appeared near the top of COVID-19- or vaccine-related search results.
Defendant Warren characterized this apparently favorable treatment of Plaintiffs' and other books as "peddling misinformation" and as part of a "pattern and practice of misbehavior" that amounted to "an unethical, unacceptable, and potentially unlawful course of action" by Amazon. Defendant Warren claimed that conspiracy theories, vaccine misinformation, and "false cures" related to COVID-19, like those allegedly contained in the books the letter identified, "have led to untold illnesses and deaths."
Defendant Warren's letter concluded by "ask[ing] [Amazon to] perform an immediate review of [its] algorithms and, within 14 days, provide both a public report … and a plan to modify these algorithms." The letter also asked Amazon to respond to four questions about its search algorithms and "Best Seller" labels, so that Sen. Warren could "fully understand Amazon's role in facilitating misinformation about COVID-19 and its actions to address the issue."
On September 8, 2021, one day after Defendant Warren sent her letter to Amazon, the letter was published in an official press release from Defendant Warren's office. According to Plaintiffs, the letter was "widely publicized in the national media." Two days later, on September 10, 2021, Barnes & Noble notified Chelsea Green by email of its "editorial decision" to stop selling The Truth About COVID-19. Although Amazon continued to sell the book, Plaintiffs claim that their analysis of Amazon's website indicates that the company is "covertly demoting, downgrading, or otherwise suppressing The Truth About COVID-19" without informing Plaintiffs. Plaintiffs also allege that "[m]ost if not all independent booksellers are refusing to sell [their book.]" …
To succeed on the merits of their claims, Plaintiffs must show that Defendant Warren's letter acted as an unconstitutional restriction on speech protected by the First Amendment. Plaintiffs argue their claims are likely to succeed under the Supreme Court's Bantam Books v. Sullivan (1963) decision.
In that case, the Rhode Island legislature had created a commission to police obscenity in publications "tending to the corruption of the youth" pursuant to an existing statute prohibiting such obscenity. The commission was empowered "to investigate and recommend the prosecution of all violations of said [statute]." The commission itself did not have the power to prosecute violators. Instead, the commission's practice was to identify books it found objectionable and inform the distributors of those books via a written notice. The notice "thanked [the bookseller], in advance, for his 'cooperation' … usually reminding [him] of the Commission's duty to recommend to the Attorney General prosecution of purveyors of obscenity." Additionally, the commission's list of objectionable publications was "circulated to local police departments, and [the bookseller] was so informed in the notices." This "invariably" led to "police visitations."
The Supreme Court found that the commission's "informal censorship"—using the threat of legal sanctions to coerce booksellers into removing obscene books—was unconstitutional because it effectively bypassed "the safeguards of the criminal process." The Court noted that "[p]eople do not lightly regard public officers' thinly veiled threats to institute criminal proceedings against them if they do not come around." The force of the commission's threats essentially deemed booksellers' guilty of circulating obscene material without having to prosecute them.
The Court finds that Bantam Books bears little resemblance to the case before it. Unlike Bantam Books, this case involves no regulatory body, no criminal statute, and no threat of police or other enforcement. Plaintiffs will have serious difficulty establishing that a letter from a single United States Senator is akin to a statutorily created system of prior administrative restraints whose "capacity for suppression of constitutionally protected publications is far in excess of that of the typical licensing scheme."
First, the "thinly veiled threats" in Bantam Books were very thinly veiled. The commission's notices were "phrased virtually as orders" and made explicit reference to the attorney general, the police, and the possibility of criminal prosecution. Here, Defendant Warren's alleged threat is derived primarily from her statements that the circulation of The Truth About COVID-19 was "potentially unlawful" and that COVID-19 misinformation has "led to untold illnesses and death." Plaintiffs argue that booksellers could interpret these statements as threatening them with "legal liability for wrongful death or homicide."
Plaintiffs will have difficulty establishing that this is a reasonable or likely interpretation of Defendant Warren's letter. The two noted phrases are not in the same paragraph and, even if they were, equating them to an accusation of homicide requires a vivid imagination. Furthermore, the vast majority of Defendant Warren's letter is dedicated to persuasion—by arguing, for example, that "[o]ther major technology companies have recognized their role in propagating misinformation" and, unlike Amazon, taken steps to address it.
Next, Defendant Warren is far removed from the power to legally punish booksellers for continuing to sell The Truth About COVID-19. Although Plaintiffs are correct that "the fact that a public-official defendant lacks direct regulatory or decisionmaking authority over a plaintiff [or third-party publisher] … is not necessarily dispositive," that does not mean it will not be dispositive in most cases.
In Bantam Books, the Court found that the commission's "want of power to apply formal legal sanctions" was not dispositive because the commission effectively wielded that power (and perhaps even greater power) informally. Here, it is difficult to maintain that Defendant Warren's writing a letter to Amazon is effectively wielding state regulatory power, in part because there is no such power to wield. In Bantam Books, the commission was given an express mandate by the legislature, and its threats were backed up by a statute criminalizing obscenity. In contrast, Defendant Warren does not have any unilateral investigative authority, and there is no immediate statutory basis for her statement that Amazon's practices are "potentially unlawful."
Put another way, the threat of legal sanctions can act as an unlawful restriction on speech, but a threat will only be perceived as such if there is a realistic chance the threatened action can be carried out. Plaintiffs are unlikely to successfully demonstrate that the booksellers reasonably perceived Defendant Warren's letter as a threat.
In summary, the Court finds that Plaintiffs are unlikely to succeed on the merits of their claim that Defendant Warren's letter constitutes a prior restraint on speech.
And the court also stressed that one of the remedies plaintiffs sought—that Warren publicly retract the letter—would be especially inapt for a preliminary injunction:
There is nothing "preliminary" about this remedy. Ordering Defendant Warren to retract her letter would effectively be a permanent injunction, because it cannot be undone. This injunction would not relieve Plaintiffs of irreparable harm, but rather impose it on Defendant Warren. Furthermore, to be entitled to a retraction, Plaintiffs would need to have actually prevailed on the merits—not just shown they are likely to prevail (which they also have not done). Thus, the Court finds that Plaintiffs have failed to establish that, in the absence of preliminary injunction, they will suffer irreparable harm, and the balance of equities disfavors a remedy that would irreparably harm Defendant Warren.
Thanks to the Media Law Resource Center MediaLawDaily for the pointer.
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The Paradox of Fascism, we must be fascist to stop the fascists from being fascist!
Trust the Science!
Sincerely,
The Democrats
Ideology is what is evil and not a particular ideology. So Bushism is an example of an ideology you most likely succumbed to and now you would probably admit it made you support asinine measures some of which were evil like starting unnecessary wars that led to hundreds of thousands of needless deaths. As Jordan Peterson advocates—have values and do not follow ideologies.
Sen, Warren's proposals are as false and as crazy as the most extreme anti-vaccine view. She believed herself to be an Indian. Her school application should be banned.
I'd be interested in Sen Warren laying out her understanding of the contours of free speech
But yeah, this is bad practice but a single Senator is not government coercion, as any savvy institution will know.
I agree with the result here. But at some point, government pressure becomes government action. Quizzing the CEO of Twitter or Facebook about the effect of repealing Section 230, coupled with requests to censor, is a lot closer to coercion. The line, in my opinion, should be drawn differently than courts do now. But again, even so, I agree this case was not over the line.
No, government pressure does not become government action. Private publishers are well protected by the 1A. They may choose to cave to pressure. That is their privilege; some may think it mere business practicality, and that too is their privilege. More principled publishers will defy the pressure, and publish a story about the defiance.
The argument about Section 230 is a different question. Your comment, maybe inadvertently, supports my often-repeated contention that Section 230 should only be repealed unconditionally. But as soon as possible. You are right that threats of conditional repeal threaten government speech coercion.
"Those sure are some nice government contracts you have with us...."
Funny how it is a First Amendment violation when Florida repeals a special taxing jurisdiction for Disney because they advocated on one particular issue. But do it for any right wing issue and you get a completely different result.
This is 1) why no one takes the Left seriously these days and 2) why people say we live in Clown World...
Or even just "we're really afraid of some modification of antitrust law that is being proposed", or whatever.
And I want to add- this is especially irresponsible for Sen. Warren to do with respect to Amazon, which dwarfs any other seller of books. Bookstores have traditionally- and correctly- been resistant to this sort of pressure, but Amazon's bigness and the fact that so many smaller bookstores have gone out of business as customers switch to Amazon has created this unique pressure point for book banning. And Sen. Warren- a longstanding critic of large enterprises with monopoly power- should actually understand this.
This was an extremely bad thing for Sen. Warren to do, even though it doesn't violate the First Amendment. She ought to be ashamed of herself.
Well said.
You think Warren actually puts together disparate pieces of her rhetoric onto a coherent whole? Sorry you haven't been paying attention but her entire schtick is a grab bag of populist left slogans that contradict one another if all implemented. There is no foundation of principle there.
I like how she was academic that studied debt and she focused on evil doctors that saved lives and put people into debt while ignoring virtuous university administrators professors who convinced 18-22 year olds to take out student loans that would cripple them financially for life. And it turns out medical debt isn’t even an issue…but at least it helped her amass a fortune and become famous.
but Amazon's bigness and the fact that so many smaller bookstores have gone out of business as customers switch to Amazon has created this unique pressure point for book banning.
Barnes and Noble and Borders were more responsible for driving indie bookstores out of business than Amazon ever was. The number of indie bookstores is actually larger now than it was ten years ago.
Ironically, Amazon is keeping a lot of these places afloat because people will search for used books on there to save money. Even the local hippie used bookstore that I like to shop at in person sells their stock on Amazon.
I mean, the "true libertarian" answer is "it's your fault for getting used to special status (tax-cuts, contracts, etc.) in the first place".
That said, laughing when your neighbor (who you hate) has their cow gored, but crying when it's yours that gets gored, is pretty time-honored human behavior. So I'm not sure why you presented this as a left/right thing.
Nice business you have there. Shame if something happened to (regulate) it.
At some point yeah, but Senatorial preening is not that point.
A hearing...one could argue those are coercive, but that's also been common governmental practice for ages. The theory there being coerced self-regulation is less burdensome than actual regulation by agency or law.
The preening here was done not by Warren (who simply wrote a letter urging something) but by Kennedy et al (who brought a lawsuit).
Eh, this feels like dime-store populism to me. Bad practice, but also nothing unethical.
Regulation by raised eyebrow is the best possible scenario for the corruptions running government.
Less burdensome? It's core kleptocracy threat.
You continue to have a ridiculously Manichean view of government. It is neither perfectly pure nor perfectly corrupt.
Anyone claiming one or the other is selling something...maybe to themselves.
I agree. President Biden bellied up to the bully pulpit and singled out 10 Facebook users on national TV and called for them to be banned for spreading COVID "misinformation." And as we've seen, a fair amount of such "misinformation" of today is tomorrow's "information."
Ceo of facebook says he won't censor posts from pols, even harrassing ones, because The People need to know what they say.
"You come stand tall before The Man I mean Congress and explain yourself!"
Yeah, no coercion there.
I'm sick of this BS. That judge ought to be ashamed of himself. Dropping hints of legal repercussions and other, wink wink, ptoblems you may suffer.
"Who knows?" the guy in a pinstripe suit asks. "Things break. Stuff might catch on fire. You might get sued or laws might change. Things just happen."
Sen warren has been a strong advocate for censoring speech, though in this instance, her being only a single senator, her actions dont rise to the level of government censorship
Somehow I don't think that's how she'd put it; I'd be interested in her justification here. Or whether she was just blowing hot air because she knows that's electorally favored.
Not very complicated:
"What I say is The Truth. What you say is (dangerous!) misinformation. Therefore I get to shut you up."
Simple & efficient. Works with any topic.
Somehow I don't think that's how she'd put it either.
I'm not interested in how committed partisans who hate her believe she thinks, but rather how she believes she thinks.
"how she believes she thinks"
You expect honesty? From a politician?
Whatever, you nihilist.
Even if it's not her true sekret beliefs you know she's lying about, what she projects to the public about the First Amendment is significant.
Here's a foreign example of a "successful" use of this justification:
https://www.businessinsider.com/argentina-inflation-number-prosectutions-2013-1
In case you're wondering why I put "successful" in quotes:
https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poem/poems_copybook.htm
What Kennedy is doing is a menace to public health. Warren's concern is legitimate.
Kennedy is free to write a book, and Warren is free to ask people not to carry it. Seems easy enough to me.
That's possible, but I'm not sure her thoughts on the regulation of political disinformation. (I'm also not sure of my own thoughts - commercial speech can't be disinformation, after all).
"commercial speech can't be disinformation, after all"
I'm not sure what you mean by that; I've seen plenty of commercial speech that was highly misleading at best.
You're not allowed to lie in adds. It's a whole doctrine, in fact, Brett!
I suspect she probably would favour some regulation of knowing falsehoods. But that's not the right way to analyse her letter from a constitutional POV.
Ask as a private individual, yes. Ask as a senator, no.
I mean, I agree that it doesn't violate the 1A, but it is an abuse of her office that should get her booted.
I'm not sure what you would base that distinction on, or what your constitutional basis for that even is. (Originalism!) Either way, it's definitely up to her voters in Massachusetts to decide whether they approve of her actions while in office.
It's also up to the other members of the senate to decide whether they approve of her actions, and whether she should remain in the senate as a result.
I think think this is a harder question than you imply. Your reasoning would throw Miranda and a bunch of other cases out the window, because if "requests" and "questions" from a US Senator cannot be coercive, then certainly questions from a li'l-ol' policeman can't be inherently coercive. I mean they just put you in that interrogation room to get you some peace and quiet.
I don't know exactly where or how to draw the line, but I'd suggest there is a lone to be drawn.
That seems to be a ridiculous comparison. The whole point that the court makes here (and literally thousands of courts have made re police) is that one Senator is not coercive--because she has no authority to act against Amazon and because Amazon KNOWS THIS. While, on the other hand, your little ole policeman's questioning is infinitely more likely to be seen as coercive, since every single policeman/woman has the right to arrest you, and/or because--depending on the circumstance--there may be a reasonable threat of physical harm to you coming from that cop.
Two totally different situations. Fortunately, courts and most people immediately see these obvious differences. Surprising to read that you find them similar.
Stating threats and raised eyebrows from a Senator are no threat sets a new world record for facetiousness.
Sarc made a blanket statement that a single Senator cannot be tantamount to government coercion. Sure, Amazon is a big boy (if we are still allowed to say that), and knows that it can politely tell Sen Warren to shove it if it so chooses. Just like plenty of arrestees know their rights and are unlikely to be coerceable just by being in custody.
But many arrestees are not so sophisticated. Hence the need for Miranda-type protections.
Would you not agree that certain potential recipients of Senatorial missives may not have the savvy of Amazon, and would genuinely feel pressure?
That was my point - that at some point (I do not know where) a single senator can become improperly coercive.
My favorite (which I commented on when it happened) was her dumbass question, "how did you decide which books to label best sellers?" (Paraphrased)
The New York Times has admitted that while sales are one factor, its Best Seller List is not based exclusively on sales.
So perhaps it isn't as silly a question as it sounds.
As far as I know, the only other factor the NYT considers is whether the sales are legitimate or are bulk purchases designed to make a book look more popular than it actually is.
No one outside the NYT knows what the exact algorithm is. But the Times has stated that they take other factors into consideration beside sales. They also say that "sales are statistically weighted". And that is in addition to unknown data sources and undisclosed judgments about "legitimate sales" - since they say they can include bulk sales and other questionable sales data at their discretion.
Compare the Wall Street Journal's bestseller list, which is just the BookScan data, to the NYT data - NYT journalists have books that are higher ranked and ranked longer than they should be according to BookScan data, for example. So do certain celebrity books. So do authors and publishers that advertise more in the NYT.
So we don't know what data they use but we know it is not the best or largest sales lists, inclusion/exclusion of the sales data points involves NYT discretion, and the data is massaged afterwords by unknown techniques.
I thought it was only Florida which was engaged in fascism like banning and burning books?!?!?
The media seems to "forget" stories such as this or precedent over the last 10 years like the woke people getting rid of anything they viewed as being "problematic" from just about any source. At least all FL did was say we won't use your material in our public school curriculum.
You think this letter is like when Florida actually passed a direct and targeted law explicitly because of the target corporation criticized the legislature?
If Warren manages to get Congress to pass a regulation targeted directly at Amazon, we can talk.
Master Yoda: The bullshit is strong is in this one.
You're arguing a letter is the same as passing a law.
Come on, dude.
I'd argue that the timeline of events showed that Warren was successful in suppressing the book.
Nope, it did not take a law to intimidate a chickenshit publisher. She did it all by her self-righteous scold of a self.
Amazon is a chickenshit publisher?
Correlation is not causation. Certainly not legally.
Though yeah, I don't like this practice I also don't want to make it illegal.
No, but Barnes and Nobel is chickenshit.
Having said that neither is the publisher, only a bookseller. The publisher and likely holder of the copyright is Chelsea Green Publishing of Vermont.
All the FANG companies fear Congress wrecking stuff. The whole section 230 change threat was a direct threat to successfully get then to censor or add scary attachments to disfavored speech, oh, make sure you apply it to our political opponents right before this election.
So your observation is found lacking and rejected.
Did you see how you had to change the thesis from a single Senator to Congress in general?
Because you did. Which shows that you agree that what Warren did wasn't coercive, even if you don't want to admit it.
We can talk about hearings, but that is a different kettle of fish.
concur with Don - similar to the threat of condemnation for property by city official will qualify under 1033 as same as actual condemnation.
Look at the OP, Joe.
City official has power a single Senator does not.
The Amazon situation is like if a Florida state senator had written a letter to Disney saying, I think you should retract your "Don't Say Gay" statements and then Disney did.
But that's not what happened in Florida. You are all blinded by the right (except Sarcastr0).
Censorship is censorship. Period. Doesn't matter the vehicle. Or shouldn't unless you are disingenuous and trying to run interference for your partisan preference.
Ah yes. Perspective is not a thing, different things are the same, and you didn't read the reasoning in the OP.
You continue to be the least serious poster here.
So says the guy who engages in constant hand waving in a failed attempted to justify your partisan fueled censorship. Everyone sees that you are nothing but a joke.
failed attempted to justify your partisan fueled censorship
And you don't read my comments either.
Unserious.
I did and still think you are a joke, just like everyone else does.
Did you see I'm not justifying what Warren did and forgot, or what?
How long, Oh Lord?
It was not targeted.
It was not explicitly passed because of corporate speech.
I know you don't care for the truth, but deal with it.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022C/3C/BillText/Filed/PDF
You're a wing nut.
Before he made the bill law, DeSantis said of Disney: “You’re a corporation based in Burbank, California, and you’re going to marshal your economic might to attack the parents of my state? We view that as a provocation, and we’re going to fight back against that.”
“If Disney wants to pick a fight, they chose the wrong guy,” DeSantis wrote in a fundraising email to supporters on Wednesday last week. “I will not allow a woke corporation based in California to run our state.”
In a fundraising pitch sent out this week, DeSantis told supporters, 'It took a look under the hood to see what Disney has become to truly understand their inappropriate influence.'
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022C/3C/BillText/Filed/PDF
I'm not sure what you think that link demonstrates, other than your profound naivete.
If she latter makes a law that substantially harms Amazon but not Barns & Noble, would that law be invalidated as a coercive restriction on speech?
Not since animus isn't a thing.
Directly targeting, I'd argue that's a novel question.
Is the situation that a member of congress can make threatening statements, and then if the threatened does not respond, the member of congress can punish them with legislation?
If true, the courts are not much of a check on such abuse.
I'm afraid this kind of abuse is hard to prove under current law. The inquiry into intent to punish is not one courts are allowed to make, since Trump v. Hawaii on the Muslim bans.
However, I do agree with you that if the legislation is targeted, I would very much hope a finder of fact would not be cut off from finding impermissible retaliation or targeting.
If only there was a Democratic debate where they one-upped each other on how to punish Internet companies for not censoring harrassment. Most agreed nixing section 230, to induce stock price collapse.
One candidate went further, threatening direct legislation to hurt them. She is currently the vice president.
What does this have to do with the conversation in this thread? Do you think that proves animus? Do you think the Court should reverse itself?
Or are you just ranting about this set of assumptions and facts and spin you can't seem to stop focusing on regardless of it's relevance?
avb, what do you suppose you mean by, "punish them with legislation?"
First, probably the legislation would be constitutionally forbidden, as infringing the 1A. Amazon is a private publisher, with full press freedom, to publish or not publish at pleasure. So if the legislation passes, and the president signs it, then the Court tosses it. A pain in the butt, maybe, but not a drop in the bucket for Amazon, and no lasting effects.
Alternatively, the legislation passes muster under 1A, somehow. I can't imagine that, but that just means it would be some kind of creative-but-legitimate law I can't anticipate. What is wrong, except according to your political preference, with a legitimate law?
In this case SL, Amazon is only a merchant, not the publisher.
A facially neutral policy would be a tax on online retails with revenue > X. Choose and X so that it applies to Amazon but not Barnes & Noble.
Another is a wealth tax on people with more than 100B in a publicly traded vompany. That gets Amazon's owners but not Barnes & Noble.
Depends.
Can you convince a court (possibly the SCOTUS, if it goes that far) that they were actually motivated by animus and did not have a rational basis?
Which is to say, it would depend on the topic, the company, and who's on the court at the time.
But yes, until there is an obvious pattern of letter-response-legislation, you probably won't be able to get the courts to put their foot down at the "letter" step.
Well, animus isn't a thing except when the Supreme Court says it is. Their case law on this point doesn't strike me as super-consistent.
My picture is basically it only works for Free Exercise and nowhere else.
Which...different rights do sometimes allow different inquiries. A consistent legal system our Constitutional jurisprudence is not.
That only applies when the right wing cancels something for advocating for a left wing cause. Does not apply in the reverse.
So tiresome
But so true!
OK lol
You'd think Chief Poke-a-Hontas ( or is it "Faux"-a-hontas?) would be more Skeptical of the Great White Father's Medicine, with the previous history of Smallpox infected Horse Blankets (or was it Tuberculosis?)...
Frank "Native Amurican" (born in Atlanta, can't get any more Native Amurican than that)
Faux-a-hontas
Thanks Bob, may your Tomahawks stay sharp and your Quiver Full!
Frank "Ugh!"
As long as the Braves have the Cherokee Casino as a sponsor they will get to keep their name and tomahawk chop. The Seminoles have huge casinos in Florida and so they want to keep those customers happy.
Casinos bring in Big Heap of Wampum from Pale Face!
Ah, the joys of casual racism. Look at all you right wingers living the good life.
Who says conservatives have no sense of humor?
Other than everyone in Hollywood.
And everyone at Disney or any major entertainment company.
And everyone in New York's cultural district.
And anyone who has watched Gutfeld! or any other right-wing "comedian."
And anyone who has watched Last Man Standing or . . . are any other conservative sit-coms still around?
Heck Reverend, the entire US Senate is a Sit-Com (a bad one) you've got 1/1,024th Native Amurican Lizzie Warren, "Leaky"/"Crypt Keeper" Leahy, "Danang Dick" Blumenthal, "Little" Marco Rubio, Georgia's Odd Couple (one's an actual Reverend), Crazy Mazie Hiroshimo, Joanie loves Chachi Ernst, Dandy/Randy Paul, Lindsey Buckingham/Nicks/Graham (played by Paul Lynde), John Kennedy(ever noticed he sounds like Hank Hill?) John Testerosterone (More Maleness in that Crew Cut than the rest of the Senate combined) Cory I'm not Gay Booker, , and I'm only up to the N's (Alphabet, not Word)
all presided over by former Senator Common-Law Harris.....
Frank "Watches too much Television"
Fauxcahontas. Or Lieawatha.
"Lieawatha." Very cute.
I had not heard that one before
So basically the finding of the court is that United States senators, particularly Senator Warren, are impotent and prone to blather? I mean, it seems to be a widely held opinion, backed by a lot of evidence, but it's surprising to see it treated as indisputable fact that can be used to decide a case at a preliminary stage.
Ben Nighthorse Campbell seemed like a pretty cool dude, any other Senators with Ponytails?
The fact here is only that individual Senators not speaking for Congress.
But also, yeah - Democracy favors the election showhorses, not workhorses.
While this may be technically correct in a way that only lawyers enjoy, it seems problematic that Senators can send written letters demanding that speech be censored. I suppose the correct answer is for the Senate to censure a bitch. But that won't happen to a Senator with real power.
Would it be ok if a District Attorney sent a cease and desist to Amazon?
it seems problematic that Senators can send written letters demanding that speech be censored
Because individual Senators shouldn't have free speech rights?
https://reason.com/volokh/2022/05/08/overruling-roe-would-extinguish-a-judicially-created-right-but-would-restore-the-peoples-precious-right-to-govern-themselves/?comments=true#comment-9484225
If the only "freedom of speech" you like is politicians' freedom to "urge" booksellers not to sell certain books...
She can stand up and call the book disinformation all day long.
Pressuring a vendor to cease selling a book crosses a line.
A single Senator is not as coercive as you think.
As a representative of the People, I think Warren should do better.
As a single Senator, she's not representing the Federal government. No large savvy organization thinks that.
The decision itself describes immediate responses by the booksellers that we harmful to the author.
But yeah, sure, there was no coercion. The booksellers made those simultaneous decisions immediately after the receipt of the letter completely on their own. C’mon.
Warren is a totalitarian thug.
I'm not sure the but-for her being a Senator causality is as clear as you believe.
If it's the publicity alone, that's just capitalism.
Even if there is but-for causality, it's totally fine for Amazon, a private company, to decide that you know, she's right, we shouldn't be promoting a book of misinformation about an ongoing pandemic probably.
Anyway, this incident is just a bunch of right-wing snowflakes whining about victimhood once again. There's no evidence that either Amazon or Barnes & Noble took any lasting action based on the letter. (The OP doesn't mention it but B&N reinstated the book before the lawsuit was even filed.)
Agreed - that's what I was trying to say with 'Senator causality' rather than just prominent speaker causality.
Because individual Senators shouldn't have free speech rights?
You truly don't grasp the difference between public speech in one's capacity as just a U.S. resident, and a request/demand made in one's capacity as a member of the U.S. Senate?
"technically correct"
The best kind of correct.
I bought the book. Pretty much as advertised. Does a great job making the case for government incompetence and influence peddling. What COVID has taught the nation is that for love's sake don't put the government in charge of things. Sure-fire way to mess it up.
While I havent read the book, Its probably a lot more accurate than the CDC is on the covid vaccines.
It's Amazon, one assumes they've got lawyers and knew the letter was not binding.
I think an ordinary citizen or a small bookstore owner who isn't familiar with a**hole lawyer tactics would be likely to understand the official letterhead, the 14 day "deadline" to take action, and the insistence on a response to mean they're in legal trouble.
It doesn't mean Sen. Warren broke any laws. It just means she uses the same tactics as phony debt collectors and car insurance scams.
Well, on second thought.
The people she meant to deceive were the voters reading her letter. Many of whom are ignorant enough to believe senators have the legal authority to order a company to take action, and therefore think she did something.
The day harnessing the ignorance of the American people is made illegal...
ducksalad, a tin-pot weekly newspaper publisher, like I was, better know there is no real trouble there, or pick something else to do. What a bonanza it would have been for me if a person making threats was not some local county pol, but a U.S. Senator. A dream come true.
Any publisher is incompetent who does not know how to turn that kind of thing into good publicity, and ready cash. If you handle it right, it's the kind of opportunity that leads to regional influence, professional accolades, and offers from far away to buy out your paper for a fancy price.
"If you handle it right, "
Easy to say Stephen. But this complaint was the oft-made leftist denunciation of "misinformation" deserving censorship.
But I applaud your cry of "Coraggio !"
Nico, not "Coraggio!" Pure practical opportunism, making the most of the weapons a publisher has ready to hand.
Remember whoever it was in politics who said it was bad business to get into a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel? That scales. Not that Amazon needs to scale it. The yowling from aggrieved right wingers on this one is either pure theater, or pure ignorance.
Lizzie's got a book on Amazon now, titled "Persist" (well she is honest, she has Persisted, like lots of things that irritate me, my Hemorrhoids, Prostatism, Toenail Fungus,)
And I bet she doesn't even cut Mitch "The Turtle" McConnel in for any of the Residuals (see Prostatism) , what an Indian Giver!!!!
Frank "never could grow decent Facial Hair, because I'm part Native Amurican"
Something tells me she won't have a problem with the next Senator from Georgia's book.
Breaking Free: My Life with Dissociative Identity Disorder Hardcover – Bargain Price, April 14, 2008
by Herschel Walker (Author), Jerry Mungadze (Foreword)
Frank
Senator Elizabeth “I’ll Shit All Over the Constitution Constantly Because My Judgement Is Better Than Everyone Else’s Even Though I Lied My Way Into Law School” Warren.
And yes, coercion from a government official can violate the first amendment. Even a letter from someone like Warren would lead one to ask “what happens if I ignore this?”
And her judgement of what is dis/misinformation is hugely tainted by her partisanship. She would say that pointing out that her wealth tax has constitutional issues is disinformation even though it clearly isn’t.
By the way, if you look for this book on Amazon, you can read the entire foreword by Kennedy. It is worth reading.
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1645020886/reasonmagazinea-20/
Easy cases make bad comments?
I wonder if Amazon has 'tweaked' its algorithm results regarding books from a certain senator?
Which oversight committees is she on, and did the judge take that into account?
[Off-topic: Today there's a story about a high school in Florida that is censoring this year's yearbook, due to some photos from an anti-"Don't say gay" activity.] Thought it was an interesting story.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-school-yearbook-hold-over-132848311.html
Where's the outrage, conspirators? Not so worried about censoring left-wing speech, are we.
Seems like a silly policy in the first place, but it seems to be an old one and one that is content neutral.
So... is that your censorship of left-wing speech you demand outrage for? Forgive me for not being impressed.
They had pointed to that policy to justify completely censoring a whole section of the yearbook that they disagreed with, rather than simply requiring the section to conform to the policy.
Fortunately they've backtracked.
Are we sure Warren doesn't have any sort of financial incentives to this book doing well?
Seems to me the the crowd who this book is targeting are much more likely to know Warren by her Trump Given Name "Pocahontas", rather than the progressive left that actually listens to her. Much like the Streisand Effect, one would assume that her sending out a letter against it would very predicably increase the book's exposure to the very crowd to which it is most targeted. A lawsuit against her for the letter would bring even more publicity to the book, as is evidenced by this article.
So I ask again... are we sure she doesn't have a financial stake with the publisher or some other means to profit from the book's success?
I believe companies should do what politicians and government officials instruct them to do. Especially if that politician can introduce legislation to punish the company. It will be the business' decision to follow the politician's instructions so thus not a First Amendment violation. It's not as if the politician is preventing free speech. It's the company's decision.
Definitely not fascism. Case closed.
Once all companies realize that they should do as their "betters" request they do, the more stable our economy will be.
I guess I'm a little L libertarian and imho Warren's letter is a direct threat to Amazon and others. She can, and I believe, will make their lives miserable. As such, it is a violation of the First Amendment. "Well, I’m not a , I have never played one on TV, and I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but here are my simple thoughts."
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