"11 Political Parties in [Ukraine] That Are Linked to Russia Will Be Banned"

The Hill (Olafimihan Oshin) reports, citing the Washington Post:

"Given the full-scale war waged by the Russian Federation and the ties of some political structures with this state, any activity of a number of political parties during the martial law is suspended," Zelensky said during his address….

The 11 banned parties included the Opposition Platform-For Life, Shariy Party, Nashi, Opposition Bloc, Left Opposition, Union of Left Forces, State, Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine, Socialist Party of Ukraine, Socialists Party and Volodymyr Saldo Bloc, according to Axios.

I hadn't mentioned it earlier, because it was so widely reported at the time, but of course Russia has imposed broad speech restrictions, including up to 15 years in prison for calling the invasion of Ukraine a "war" or an "invasion."

Comments

[Cal Cetín]

So, what are the actual positions of these parties? Are they front-groups for Russia, or are they just more zealous than desired for peace and internal autonomy for some regions?

[Cal Cetín]

And we'd *expect* Putin, as the Bad Guy, to be censoring the heck out of *his* opposition. But Ukraine?

It's logically possible for a country to be the victim of aggression *and* to pursue authoritarian methods. Ask Abraham Lincoln about the need for abridging peacetime civil liberties in a righteous war.

Still, 11 banned parties? Which opposition parties are left?

[Currentsitguy]

We don't live under a Parliamentary system, so I think some of the implication are lost on us. "Political party" does not imply that they ever actually had any representation. Perhaps it would be like banning "That rent's too damn high" party in NY. Not that I think silencing any voice is a good idea but how many voices would we silence if TRTDH" silence here?

Guess what I'm trying to say is I suspect many of those were extreme minor fringe voices to begin with.

Again I'm a political and free speech absolutist so I'd think the "Let's slice newborns thin, grill them. and serve them for breakfast" party is OK by me (membership 1). Just trying to put what they've done in context.

[RedDeepThought42]

Surprisingly, Cal, the majority of the opposition parties remain. Batkivshchyna, European Solidarity, For the Future, Holos, and Dovira are the remaining opposition parties (72/423 seats) and the independents remain as well (29/423). Of the banned parties, only Opposition Platform - For Life (side note, who the hell is coming up with these party names?) was represented in the Verkhovna Rada.

I do wonder what the point was here. Zelenskyy's bloc has an absolute majority (241 in his party which is an unqualified majority by itself + 41 from coalition partners to make 282/423) in parliament. With circumstances as they are, I sincerely doubt he will be losing many parliamentary votes in the foreseeable future.

[Sarcastr0]

Super quick Google around:

The Socialist Party of Ukraine came out of the remnants of the old Soviet Communist Party.
The Progressive Socialist Party advocates for Ukraine reunifying with Russia, and is a member of the Eurasian Youth Union.

I don't think banning political parties is a good idea, and it would be naiive to not see this as consolidating power in the ruling party.

But the other side is Putin increasingly doing a blood and soil thing.

[Sarcastr0]

Both things I looked up lead to wiki, but the sources for what I quoted seem real.

[Cal Cetín]

I can see banning the reunion party.

The former commies - did they keep their Soviet nostalgia and are they also for reunion? Or do they want communism with Ukrainian characteristics, or some other nationalist formula?

[DaivdBehar]

Why is Putin still alive? Why are Russian oiligarchs still alive? This is a deep mystery.

[Currentsitguy]

I'd be perfectly OK putting a billion dollar price on their heads. I'm guessing it would cost less than WW3.

[nobody 2]

Because Mordor-on-the-Potomac is actually quite bad at assassinating people the Empire doesn't like--just ask Fidel Castro. Or, more recently, Alexander Lukashenko.

[DaivdBehar]

Just give the Ukrainians the positions, and a drone to strike them.

[nobody 2]

I think you've gotten a little too used to massacring peasant children in third world countries. That doesn't work against people who can actually defend themselves.

[Michael P]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_Platform_%E2%80%94_For_Life describes the "For Life" party, including their denunciation of the invasion on March 8, which seems a bit belated. https://www.iri.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/2019_december_survey_of_residents_of_ukraine_ngproof_toct_03032020_comments_removed_final.pdf has interesting cross-tabs by party (followed crosstabs by city) -- Oposition Platform-For Life is a huge outlier in most of those. IRI has newer surveys, but none have the by-party crosstabs.

Only one of the 11 banned parties is in the six parties that got their own crosstabs -- Shariy Party and Opposition Bloc show up in the answers on slides 15 through 17, but the others are apparently even smaller.

[DaivdBehar]

Cal, baby. All woke are servants of the Chinese Commie Party. All should be banned in the USA. Why allow the enemy to work against us from inside the country?

[Absaroka]

FWIW, it sees like a mistake to me, both practically and because of the optics.

Practically, what good does banning a party do? From a completely amoral POV imprisoning or executing opponents works[1], but just telling Tom, Dick, and Harry they can't call themselves the TRTDH party doesn't keep them from doing whatever they were doing without calling themselves a party.

Optically, it's a gift to Putin - he can now crow about the authoritarian Ukrainian government.

The Ukrainians haven't made too many PR missteps, but this seems like one to me.

[1]and morally appropriate if they were doing something actually subversive, as opposed to just advocating for different policies

[Titus PUllo]

The simply propaganda (and you know how far down the American people's thinking has become when the govt only needs simple slogans to move opinion) is "democracy" good..Ukraine good. Russia bad..Russia is nazi (ok I doubt the nazi party has any support in the Kremlin given the Great Patriotic War was against the nazis).

Ukraine like many Eastern European countries is sort of a democracy with a great deal of corruption. Zelinskyy is not George Washington. You can blame FB, Twitter, and Google for pushing this BS which many Americans (often white women buy into).

[David Nieporent]

Understandable, but I think wrong.

I do think it depends whether these are actual Ukrainian political parties or just agents of the Russian government — even with the 1A, it would be considered treason in the U.S. if one were actively working for a foreign country one was at war with. There's a difference between saying nice things about Russia and being paid by Russia.

And it also depends what "banning" them actually consists of.

[Longtobefree]

But if Zelensky forms a private corporation and silences them, it will be fine, right?

[M L]

According to this tweet that is "all opposition parties"

https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1505354622969524225

So has anyone mentioned that Zelensky just banned all opposition parties in Ukraine through the National Security and Defense Council or
Zelensky in latest address: "The activities of politicians to divide or collude will not succeed, but will receive a harsh response."
"Therefore the NSDC decided, taking into account the full-scale war unleashed by the Russian Federation and the political ties that a number of political structures have with this state, to suspend any activities of a number of political parties during martial law."
Parties to be banned imminently: "Opposition Platform - For Life", "Shariy Party", "Nashi", "Opposition Bloc", "Left Opposition", "Union of Left Forces", "State", "Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine", "Socialist Party of Ukraine", "Socialists", "Volodymyr Saldo Bloc".
And that's just on top of having the Security Service arbitrarily arrest a whole bunch of journalists and bloggers, such as Yuri Tkachev earlier today in Odessa . . .

Could be inaccurate and propaganda for all I know, anyone know if it's accurate?

[David Nieporent]

Yes. Everyone knows it's not accurate.

[M L]

Do tell. As of your post above you didn't know, what have you learned since then?

[David Nieporent]

I know that this list is not "all opposition parties in Ukraine.

[mydisplayname]

"Government" censorship and "platform" censorship is running rather high on all fronts. Consider the fate of the satire group Babylon Bee, which today was de-platformed by Twitter (see https://twitter.com/SethDillon/status/1505674884222967810 ).

A peacekeeper missile kills as effectively as an invader's missile.

[Ed Grinberg]

We're not deleting anything. Truth is not hate speech. If the cost of telling the truth is the loss of our Twitter account, then so be it.

I've received some messages from people asking how they can help. I can think of a few ways:
1. Never censor yourself. Insist that 2 and 2 make 4 even if Twitter tries to compel you to say otherwise. Make them ban tens of millions of us.

compare:

"When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is...in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to."

"...disgust with, and resistance to, these liars and weasels and commissars..."

source:
https://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/RadioDerb/2016-09-09.html#06

[Krayt]

When the King says something to his own benefit, underlings rush to see cosmic wisdom in the dictate, ignoring it is a simple political benefit to the King, which was why he said it.

This applies not just to climber assistants, but to businessmen who see the sword of Damoclese hanging over them.

"Censor harrasement, or section 230 might get broken."

"But that will open us up to lawsuits and cause us to restrict postings and crush our stock value by hundreds of billions."

"Gentlemen. In exactly 5 days after we crush section 230, twitter investors will be one hundred billion dollars poorer."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7edeOEuXdMU

[Jerry B.]

And Russia is banning anti-war Russian musicians.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60814306

[Ed Grinberg]

compare:
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/eric-clapton-vaccine-lockdown-racist-comments-1239027/

[Ed Grinberg]

"He's guilty of wrongthink, so we're gonna unperson him."

[Ed Grinberg]

Russia has imposed broad speech restrictions, including up to 15 years in prison for calling the invasion of Ukraine a "war" or an "invasion."

cf. investigating/prosecuting people who say that the 2020 presidential election was stolen

[Bored Lawyer]

So a war to preserve democracy this is not.

[Josh R]

Was WWII not a war to preserve freedom because FDR interred American citizens of Japanese decent? I don't think so and thus I would not necessarily reach your conclusion based on this likely deplorable action.

[Bored Lawyer]

The two are not the same thing. The US was a functioning democracy, although how it treated its citizens of Japanese dissent was deplorable. (And, of course, the Supreme Court signed off on it.)
Banning multiple opposition parties, OTOH, strikes at the heart of democracy. FDR never dreamed of banning the Republican party, and there would have been civil war if he had tried it.
And, yes, Putin's Russia is worse. Which is a low bar to jump over.

[Bored Lawyer]

Sorry, descent. My 8th grade English teacher is rebuking me in heaven.

[Josh R]

Perhaps banning a political party is worse than internment of citizens. Perhaps not. But even assuming for the sake of argument it is, I said the internment did not undermine WWII's purpose in preserving freedom (I didn't say democracy). My point is a war to preserve X is not necessarily undermined by actions in support of the war that diminish X.

[Bored Lawyer]

First of all, I said democracy, not freedom.

Second, the internment of the Japanese was done because they were suspected to be loyal to an enemy country. What made that wrong is that ethnicity was equated with political loyalty. That part was damnably wrong.
It would not have been wrong had it been limited to citizens of the enemy country, which indeed was done with Germans and Italians -- citizenship, not ethnicity.
In the other thread, it was noted that Ukraine had now banned all private ownership of TV stations, on the theory of stopping Russian "misinformation." So the govt. of the Ukraine has now nationalize electronic communications and banned opposition parties. Sorry, that is not democracy. No matter how nasty Mr. Putin is (and he is very nasty.)

(For the record, as I have written here before, I hope Ukraine prevails,. not because I like their government, but because Russia has designs outside its borders which Ukraine does not.)

[Josh R]

Zelenskyy would be well-advised to stop these measures because he will lose support in the West which makes it harder for him to prevail.

Do you support aid to Ukraine?

[Bored Lawyer]

Humanitarian aid, for sure. Not military aid.
Sanctions on Russia, yes.

As I said, I want Russia to lose. Zelensky is a petty tyrant, Putin not so petty.

[Josh R]

Given the brutal assault that violates international law, I support military aid. Even if you think that isn't sufficient because you believe Zelenskyy is a tyrant (I don't know, one way or the other), keeping Putin out of Ukraine is in NATO's interests.

[Bored Lawyer]

Let's suppose, as has been bandied about, that in exchange for withdrawing from Ukraine (except a few "minor" provinces that Biden permitted), Ukraine agree not to join NATO, and take a neutral stance the way Finland or Austria did during the Cold War.

What's your position on that?

[David Nieporent]

Throw in several tens of billions of dollars in reparations, and I'll consider it.

(Of course, it's up to Ukraine, not me, to consider it.)

[Josh R]

If the deal is acceptable to Ukraine, it's OK by me.