The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
Appointing Justices Based on Race, Sex, or Religion
Americans are entitled to be treated without regard to such matters in almost all government action—but not, I think, in high-level political appointments.
A colleague asked: Is it constitutional for President Biden to nominate a Supreme Court Justice because of her race and sex? Even if we were to extend to appointments the Court's view that sometimes race can be considered as a factor for the sake of "diversity" in higher education, the Court has generally insisted that categorical quotas or other rules that "mak[e] 'the factor of race … decisive'" are forbidden. The President has said that he would nominate a black woman, not just that he'd consider a candidate's race or sex as part of the analysis.
My sense is that there is no constitutional problem here, nor, even going beyond the constitutional question, any injustice. And I say this as someone who generally opposes race- and sex-based preferences in government employment, education, contracting, and the like. (Indeed, in 1996, I helped draft Prop. 209 in California, which forbade such preferences, and spoke often in favor of it; last year, I likewise opposed Prop. 16, which tried to repeal Prop. 209.)
Perhaps I'm mistaken on one of these positions, or maybe even on both, but I think high-level government appointments are a very different matter from ordinary hiring or education. Americans are entitled to be treated without regard to race, sex, or religion in the latter, but no-one has a right to any sort of equal treatment in being appointed to high government office.
Such appointments are a political matter, and political factors—including ones related to the identity of the candidate—may rightly play a role in that. In this respect, I think these factors are similar to (though of course not identical to) political affiliation: Government officials generally can't hire or fire employees or select students or contractors based on political affiliation, see, e.g., Elrod v. Burns (1976); Rutan v. Republican Party (1990); O'Hare Truck Service v. City of Northlake (1996), but of course that rule doesn't apply to selection of cabinet members (or similar state or local officials), judges, and the like. (Some people have argued that the Religious Test Clause specifically forbids the consideration of religion even in high-level appointments, but I'm skeptical about that, and in any event that provision refers solely to religion.)
The Court has never squarely confronted this as to race discrimination, either at the federal or state level, but it has hinted that such political decisions are different. Consider Mayor of Philadelphia v. Educational Equality League (1974), which involved a challenge to the Mayor's appointments to a school board nominating panel. The Court ultimately didn't reach the Mayor's argument "that judicial review of the discretionary appointments of an executive officer contravenes basic separation-of-powers principles," because it concluded that there wasn't enough evidence of racial discrimination on the Mayor's part. But the Court suggested that "judicial oversight of discretionary appointments may interfere with the ability of an elected official to respond to the mandate of his constituency," and noted (quoting Carter v. Jury Comm'n of Greene County (1970)) "the problems that would be involved in a federal court's ordering the Governor of a State to exercise his discretion in a particular way."
To be sure, that leaves open the possibility that the Equal Protection Clause (or, since that doesn't apply to the federal government, broader principles of equality, see Bolling v. Sharpe (1954)) forbids discrimination in such appointments, even if federal courts can't step in to do anything about it. But I think there's a deeper principle here, beyond just the limits on judicial power: The case for an individual right to equal treatment for high-level appointed officials is especially weak, and the case for leaving elected officials free to make such high-level appointments as a matter of hard-headed political judgment (in the best case, statesmanlike judgment) is especially strong.
American practice reflects that, including American practice from recent decades. President Reagan of course famously nominated Justice O'Connor because of her sex. It seems clear that Justice Thomas was nominated to replace Justice Marshall because of his race, and Justice Barrett was nominated to replace Justice Ginsburg because of her sex. Some have said that Justice Scalia was appointed partly because he was Italian-American, though that's less clear, and was certainly less part of the public political calculus. (See pp. 57 & 59 of this interview with Peter Wallison.) As I recall, it wasn't clear at the time of Justice Sotomayor's nomination that President Obama would nominate a Hispanic, though as I recall the talk was definitely of nominating a woman, and it seems likely that Justice Sotomayor's ethnicity played a role in the ultimate decision.
All this was doubtless done in part because such identity-based or identity-influenced appointments were seen as politically beneficial for the appointing President (that's what politicians do), but the appointments were also endorsed by many on the theory that they were good for the country. There can be a debate about whether such attention to identity in high-level appointments is indeed ultimately good for the country on balance (once one sets aside any individual right to equal treatment, which I think doesn't apply to such high-level positions). But it seems to me to be at least a plausible argument.
And this is especially so given that the other nonpolitical qualities of the prospective appointees are generally so hard to measure and compare, and their qualities as a Justice are so hard to predict. (For instance, then-Judge Thomas had only a short judicial career at the time, and a serious but not especially noteworthy legal career before that, but has since proven himself an interesting and thoughtful Justice.) To be sure, it's a mistake to appoint a truly bad candidate just based on identity, but that would rarely be necessary even given some identity-based appointment commitment, since there are lots of candidates from any substantial demographic group who would be above any reasonable threshold.
Such considerations also seem plausible to me not as a matter of "affirmative action," but rather of realpolitik, which may easily cut against minority groups as well as in favor of them. Doubtless many political officials, for instance, carefully judge when they should deliberately appoint a high-level official who's a member of a minority group, when they should deliberately appoint someone of a majority group (or of a minority group that is more popular than another minority group among the voters), or when they shouldn't care about the group membership. It's unfortunate that they may have to react to voter biases that way, but I don't think they have a categorical obligation to ignore such biases (again, when it comes to high-level political appointments).
Or to take a slightly different example, involving my own ethnic group, Jews: If for some reason the American-Israeli alliance goes sour, and Israel ends up a major political and military adversary, I wouldn't expect the President to ignore whether a potential Secretary of Defense is Jewish in making his decision—whether because he thinks there's a small chance that ethnicity will color even a cabinet member's loyalty, or because he is worried that enough other people will think so. Conversely, if the President deliberately chooses a Jew in that situation, because he thinks that sends an important message, that too strikes me as acceptable.
Or if a President concludes that appointing a Jewish Secretary of Defense would jeopardize some critical alliance with a bitterly anti-Israel country, rejecting a Jewish candidate for the job strikes me as a sensible position, even if one that reflects unfortunate reality. (So much about reality is indeed unfortunate.) I think the President should keep that decision quiet, partly because I don't want him publicly admitting that such decisions turn on the preferences of foreign countries, but that's not a matter of equal protection principles.
The President's job is to make hardheaded decisions on such matters, with an eye solely towards what he thinks is best for the country (though again understanding that, as a politician, he'll also consider what's best for him politically) and not towards fair treatment of particular candidates. And I expect that these factors, cutting both for and against people based on their identities (such as race, sex, religion, sex, or sexual orientation) play a role even more often in ambassadorial appointments, and legitimately so.
Again, our commitment to viewpoint neutrality in selecting public university students, or to nonpartisan merit selection in hiring government employees, doesn't mean that we expect a President to just select "the best candidate" apart from political affiliation for cabinet secretary, or to ignore ideology (or even political background) in hiring a Justice. Likewise, a commitment to nondiscrimination based on race, sex, or religion in ordinary decisionmaking shouldn't extend to decisionmaking about Justices or other high-level appointees.
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So the president appoints a justice to the court based on race when the court that is going to rule on the constitutionality of race based admissions
What if I told you that the Court had always been selected on race and sex when it had to rule on matters involving racial preference?
What if I told you that Supreme Court justices were always been selected based on merit -- until Democrats decided to add sex and race as "plus factors"?
What if I told you that for many years there was a so-called "Jewish" seat on the Court?
Apparently, you would have an absurdly delusional view of history that is badly mistaken.
I mean the existence of a “Jewish” seat doesn’t detract from the obvious point that you’re either delusional or mistaken if you think all the white guys picked for 200
Years got there on merit alone and weren’t the beneficiaries of a system designed to promote people like them.
Actually it reinforces it lol. And psssst: Cardozo was appointed by noted “Democrat” Herbert Hoover.
Uh, what? if you mean bigoted and ignorant nominees have been nominated and confirmed, I'll concede that point. But if you mean race has always controlled I think you're a little confused, or perhaps hypocritical. If you think the "system" has operated so discriminatorily over the centuries, I would think you'd be an advocate to change that, or at least argue the "living constitution" should prohibit it. Maybe someone should ask the nominee during the confirmation if her expansive view of the law and constitutional as means to affect social justice should require her recusal when discrimination cases come before the Court?
Uh, the claim is not that the nominees were bigoted, it's that they were nominated for bigoted reasons (silly I'll grant you). Try to keep up.
Don't know what he meant, kind of why I used the suppositional "if." Are you actually capable of providing an intelligent, substantive response or are you limited to idiotic sarcasm? I suspect the latter.
What's unintelligent is to think sarcasm must be lacking intelligence and substance. You grossly misunderstood what was being talked about, my sarcastic comment pointed that out to you.
I guess I should also add that the comment on judicial nominees was intended to be facetious, since you don't seem to appreciate that aspect either. But I take it from your reply that you still can muster nothing in response but idiotic sarcasm.
You can play it as facetious now if you want, but that doesn't change that it was irrelevant to the discussion. My sarcastic pointed that out to you.
Play if off as facetious? it's obvious. 99% of the comments here are facetious. If we eliminated irrelevant facetious comments then, wouldn't be much left here (another "if" sentence to bother you). But this is pointless, unless you actually have a substantive response. Think. Give a try. Who knows? You might have thought.
I don't have a substantive reply to your misunderstanding/facetious comment on what was being discussed, other than to say it was a misunderstanding/facetious comment. Got me there!
Wit is wasted on fools,
//you’re either delusional or mistaken if you think all the white guys picked for 200
Years got there on merit alone and weren’t the beneficiaries of a system designed to promote people like them.//
Please tell us what system you are referring to? The constitution? the Bill of Right or other founding documents? For over 200 years these documents have been the basis for reform to equal rights in voting and liberation of the slaves as well as civil rights for all races and creeds, most all of which were enacted mainly by Republicans, appears if you have bigots in government and politics they are originating mainly on the left, especially with Marxist thought that puts down Individuality and merit and promotes class division with Elites and Big Government controlling the masses with their selfish agendas.
Apparently, your ability to read and understand facts is badly mistaken.
…and a Catholic one.
Yeah. But that got out of hand.
Alas, one of those seats has already been given away and the second is the next to go.
At least there is Kagan
You’d have absurdly delusional view about American history.
You'd be badly mistaken.
Also imagine thinking complete dolts like Gabe Duvall or Charles Evans Whittaker were selected on “merit.”
Then I’d conclude you were ignorant of history.
I'd laugh at such at a silly comment.
Not sure what you mean. It's ok because it's always been done? is that the standard for legal ethics or the constitutionality of a practice? Has it really "always been done"? Has any president every actually announced that his S.Ct. nominee would be an affirmative action pick? And speaking of "always," I suspect most if not all of the preferred nominees will be advocates of the "living constitution." Maybe the constitution is lively enough to preclude racism and sexism in S.Ct. nominees? At least enough to argue that said nominee might have to recuse herself from discrimination cases, if they hold such an expansive view.
Ronald Reagan said before the election that he would nominate a woman to SCOTUS, if I recall correctly.
He did and he did.
Well if Ronaldus Magnus said that, I don't like it anymore than Brandon's comment. But just curious, Reagan who was despised by the left almost as much as Trump, is now the standard? And, moreover, Sandra Day O'Connor should be a cautionary tale toward affirmative action picks, not the model. Bonus point, Reagan thought Brandon was a snake, long before Joe lost it.
" What if I told you that Supreme Court justices were always been selected based on merit "
I would know you are uninformed, assume you are a disaffected clinger, and suspect you are a right-wing bigot.
"What if I told you that the Court had always been selected on race and sex..."
Sure. But should they be? A majority is entitled to use its political power to get justices that represent them if it chooses, just like a minority is entitled to use its political power for the same purpose.
But should they?
It's always had its choices based at least partly based on race and sex, going back to all white man. For various definitions of that -- an Italian was big news during my lifetime, for god's sake.
Anyways, I also recall tangential mentions in passing on this blog that the government could restrict immigration based on race or religion, as it was a plenary power. There was some iffy to it, but god knows that was the standard in past decades.
Then Trump comes along and does it, crypto, and suddenly it's clear that's wrong. Clear as day.
Now Biden does this, and it's back to an unencumberable plenary power?
Also, Republicans who are miffed, where were you when Thomas was fast tracked as a probable replacement for Marshall should the opportunity arise during a Republican presidency? Is the difference that Biden goofed by stating so publically instead of merely planning so privately, and publically waving smoke and mirror verbal boilerplate to getting the best qualified, oh, look, it happened to be him?
The three most recent nominations were based on race.
And Federalist Society membership.
Same argument why a gay judge can't rule on gay marriage.
The idea that the cultural default is unbiased, and it's only deviations from that who have a rooting interest.
A self-refuting argument.
Why can a straight judge rule on gay marriage anyway? According to conservatives gay marriage is a threat to his marriage. He’s biased. (Unless they were lying).
Judicially imposed "gay marriages" are a threat to the rule of law. If the legislature wants to go done this path that's a different issue and that's where the conservative arguments against such marriages come into play.
The court established a 'right to marry' before people were meaningfully talking about gay marriages, applying it to gay persons was hardly the straw breaking the back of the rule of law.
Yeah, actually it was
No, it actually wasn't.
Some would call the judicial usurpation of the legislative function by rewriting the millennium old understanding of marriage in the western hemisphere as somewhat overreaching. Be careful though, rule by judicial fiat may not be pleasing when they start intruding on your preferred policies.
MKE, nothing really changed when gay marriages became a thing. The rule of law did not become weaker or more under threat.
YOU can't deal with the law being something you think is wrong. That's not a threat, that's just you being grumpy and trying to make it more important than that.
Buddy, lots of parts of current jurisprudence gives me heartburn. Doesn't mean I declare rule of law under threat like some kind of drama queen.
How have you been personally injured by recognizing that people can love and marry someone of the same sex?
Be specific, or admit that you're just a fucking bigot.
So both straight judges *and* guy judges should recuse themselves, and leave the laws alone. Sounds like exactly what I wanted in the first place.
How about if the gay judge wanted to be "married" and he was ruling on the constitutionality of a "gay marriage"?
How about if a white judge’s kids are going to be college aged soon and he wants them to have less competition at elite schools?
That's a silly comparison, an obviously far different circumstance and too remote and conjectural to seriously base any claim that the judge was conflicted.
How is it far different or remote to think of a white judge having a kid thinking about getting into an elite college?
One case is a direct personal benefit arising from his decision in the case, the other is absurdly conjectural and frankly it's presumptuously racist of you to assume that of a judge just because of the color of his skin. But you're probably so used to presumptively racist thoughts you hardly notice anymore.
Lol, why of course it's 'conjectural,' your comment literally started with "How about if..."
A gay jurist wanting to be married is no more 'conjectural' than a white judge who wants his kids to get into an elite school.
"rankly it's presumptuously racist of you to assume that of a judge just because of the color of his skin. But you're probably so used to presumptively racist thoughts you hardly notice anymore."
Some pretty weak judo attempt there!
So, you do understand that your a racist, don't you?
What if a judge lives in California and wants to buy a standard capacity magazine?
Everyone lets him do it—according to the standards which apply in California.
It's just a dumb debate.
They left appointing the Supreme Court up to politicians so there are going to be two overriding considerations:
The President is going to make the pick based on what benefits him the most politically, whether that's placating a regional, racial or idealogical constituency, or solving a political problem like getting Earl Warren out of California.
And he's also going to make the pick based on who he thinks is going to rule on his side in cases he cares about.
And he's hoping the pick won't make a fool out of him, like Blackmun did with Nixon, and Souter did with Bush.
There are only 9 justices. So the number of qualified applicants is in the hundreds even if limited to former clerks in their 40s and 50s. So 4 times 9 and I assume they serve 2 year terms…so around 360 qualified for one opening.
Politicians get and stay elected by pandering to their tribal bases. Is it right? No but is deficit spending? Undeclared wars? Honestly who cares..nominate the first Martian if possible...don't care. Victory over the Bolsheviks will not be at the SC but in the States and Local govts..the Feds are completely corrupted by the left.
Bingo—once Roe is overturned voters will care even less about the Supreme Court than they do today. But once again, that’s why Trump needed to hold up judicial appointments in order to get his campaign promises passed—know your enemy and Trump inexplicably didn’t see Ryan and McConnell as enemies.
I don't doubt George Bush selected Clarence Thomas at least partly on his race, but of course Thomas was an excellent pick because of his inherent ability.
But Thomas resents the asterisk so he is against race based preferences. It doesn't always work out how you think it will.
"Thomas was an excellent pick because of his inherent ability."
LOLLOLLOL!
(goofballs please note, this laughter is not because of some inherent doubt of Thomas' potential or achieved ability)
As someone put it at the time, if one had to make a list of the one thousand most qualified black candidates, Thomas’s name would not be on it.
Largely because the makers of the list are sheer morons.
I agree its obviously not illegal. Ethical? It's not like we don't have a black SC justice now, Clarence Thomas. That's 11% representation 1 of 9 which is just slightly below the black population percentage of 13%. There are 3 women justices right now.
Race baiting is at an all time high. It needs to stop. I would oppose anyone he nominates based on the ethics of it.
If only he would cut to the chase and nominate a quadriplegic black transsexual woman with high cheekbones that identifies as a man. Then maybe we could move on from all this box-checking silliness.
Haha, it's so funny that so many kinds of people were kept from positions of influence for most of our history!
Not nearly as funny as people who feel the compulsive need to subdivide themselves into so many different "kinds" so as to manufacture grievances about how their "kind" is not being treated fai-ai-ai-rly.
Lol, you're making my point for me Brian (that the 'joke' rests on the fact that there were 'so many different kinds' of groups shut out for most of our history).
I suppose it's possible that my point (that so many of the "so many different kinds" are purely contrived dividing lines created by those looking for a bone to pick) could have sailed so far over your head that you think it supports your original silliness.
But the smart money says your response here is just, as is often the case with you, to a) distract from the fact that you're stuck, and b) try to have the last word without really saying anything new.
" purely contrived dividing lines created by those looking for a bone to pick"
Purely contrived? I agree the powers that be that oppressed all those groups contrived the lines on which to base their oppression of them on. I think it's sad all those groups were so ill-treated, I get that it's a hoot to you.
"try to have the last word without really saying anything new."
Lol, physician heal thyself!
Great Scott, Queenie -- you're absolutely right. For example, the powers that be decided to oppress white basketball players to the point that they're sorrowfully underrepresented in the NBA. And the reason we KNOW that is because they SHOULD be proportionately represented (because that's something we just know in our heart of hearts), and so oppression based on the contrived dividing line of skin color is the only possibility left. It's all so clear to me now!
Would you really like to argue that blacks, women, transexuals weren't oppressed for most of our history? Because news flash, whites in the NBA were not, so your analogy is...laughable.
Wait, wut? The fact that whites in the NBA are (clearly) being discriminated against now is fine, because something something about the past?
Since you didn't get my point I'll just run it again, take your time this time: Would you really like to argue that blacks, women, transexuals weren't oppressed for most of our history? Because news flash, whites in the NBA were not, so your analogy is...laughable.
"Race baiting"
“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
I mean, do you think when the NAACP was formed it was engaging in 'race baiting?' Grow up.
If not for (spectacularly stupid) straw men, you would have no arguments at all.
IOW, if not for spectacularly stupid comments, you would have no comments at all.
There is quite a big difference in racial dynamics in this country between when the NAACP was formed and today. One can easily be consistent in saying that "Race baiting is at an all time high. It needs to stop." and thinking that the NAACP was justified in its creation. If we take a dictionary definition of the term, the NAACP was broadly opposed to race baiting.
Oh, so taking race into account *can* not be race baiting, it depends on some context. This is good to know so we can get past the silly knee jerk invocation of 'race baiting!' and get to the context at hand, where it seems to me that advocating putting someone from a group that was excluded for most of our history is...the kind of thing the NAACP was formed to do (sort of like advocating for the advancement of particular groups based on race, but it not being 'race baiting' because it was trying to advance long excluded racial groups).
There's a pretty simple and consistently used definition of race-baiting. It includes things like what LawTalkingGuy and Ibram X. Kendi do, and does not include things like asking for equal opportunities under the law or working to educate underserved/unprivileged people.
The NAACP literally has and had as its goal the *Advancement* of one particular group *Colored People.* But according to you it wasn't racist but now Biden is because, well, tradition or something. Fifty years from now your conservative descendants will be saying 'well of course Biden wasn't being racist for trying to appoint someone from a group shut out for all the previous history, but President AOC's nomination of the Hispanic man is totally within the long accepted definition of 'race-baiting.'
race-baiting: "the making of verbal attacks against members of a racial group" (M-W) or "the act of intentionally encouraging racism or anger about issues relating to race, often to get a political advantage" (Cambridge Dictionary)
This has been your daily lesson in What Words Mean And How QA Twists Meanings.
So how did Biden "making of verbal attacks against members of a racial group" in saying he'd nominate someone from a group hitherto shut out of the court?
The only thing I do is point out historical truths.
If thats race baiting it says more about you than me by far.
Michael: You might be retarded. This is a public service announcement specifically for you.
"Race-baiting is the incitement of racial hatred, often for political purposes."
If you think Biden's nomination of a black woman is intended to incite racial hatred, you're living in some sort of white supremacist's fever dream. Wake up man!
There's a pretty simple and consistently used definition of race-baiting.
Michael P, that may be, but it is not the one white grievance mongers chorus to thwart economic improvements for Black people.
Race baiting is at an all time high.
I think that's going to be in the running for most ignorant internet comment of the year.
Just a hit dog hollering.
So we went through this before with the women justices Kagan and Sotomayor with Sotomayor having two identity points, woman and hispanic.
They are God awful justices. Sotomayor IMO is the worst in my lifetime.
In 'wreckinball's' expert, unbiased opinion!
The funny thing is that Sotomayer actually checked all the traditional 'merit' boxes.
What are your thoughts concerning Sandra Day O'Connor and Amy Coney Barrett, you bigoted, deplorable clinger?
Thomas is the worst of all time. Sheer laziness alone qualifies him. He conducts no interrogations. Asks no questions. Is wrong so often that he's often the lone dissenter. Contributes/writes nothing except soliloquies to himself as dissenter.
"Thomas is the worst of all time. Sheer laziness alone qualifies him."
So you're a racist, eh?
Yes, Pianist, I am a racist. But how were you able to figure that out?
I try to read charitably, but your claims are so transparently false that it's difficult to not see bigotry at play.
Noscitur...from 2013
"Five years having passed since Justice Thomas last asked a question at oral argument, we can turn our attention to a more significant anniversary that may arrive this summer. Barring any surprises, this June will mark the end of Justice Thomas’s 20th term on the Supreme Court without writing a truly significant majority opinion. That second milestone goes a long way toward explaining, and justifying, the first...He is a judicial iconoclast, opposed to following constitutional precedents with which he disagrees and unwilling to moderate his positions to achieve consensus. He is the court’s most frequent lone dissenter, and to assign an important majority opinion to him is to risk losing your majority because of his uncompromising language.
It is difficult for a silent justice to win over colleagues, but he may not care to."
Sounds like pretty much what I said, yes? That guy a racist too? But be careful, Noscitur. He's a black law professor at Columbia.
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/02/16/does-clarence-thomass-silence-matter/the-lone-dissenter
Lord I thought debate with other lawyers would be tough...It ain't
The question is quite trivial. All of them are fungible, from extremes of left and of right. Try appointing a non-lawyer. Even a wine besotted bum off the street would bring an upgrade in common sense, logic, and not relying in supernatural doctrines of these sick fucks. Biden's choice will reliably vote for the continued killing of millions of black babies. She rabidly exceed the the most rabid genocidal dreams of the worst member of the KKK. That is the irony that beyond the understanding of Volokh, poster boy for the lawyer dumbass.
Imbecilic incel interjects!
Are you an extreme homosexual, so in love with men, you will undergo hideously disfiguring surgery, to be with them? Most such people have a co-occurring mental illness. It needs to be resolved before getting valid consent for undergoing the hideously disfiguring surgery.
No, I've told you before I'm a fortysomething married guy (to a woman!) with kids you moronic basement dweller. It's my handle (in other shocking news Darth Chocolate is not a Sith Lord made our of chocolate and Rev. Kirkland is not an actual Reverend). You're an addled autistic authoritarian. Of course you're also a Trump fan!
Watch it . . . Prof. Volokh doesn't like it when someone calls his many autistic fans autistic.
And, no, truth is not a defense, because this is a private forum.
What has the constitution got to do with democrats?
"It's more of a guideline, actually".
Why haven't I muted your contentless madness sooner?
I have no idea - - - - - - - -
I agree that the appointment of Justices is a political matter not subject to many "usual" restrictions. But that can only work if each Justice remains loyal to the Constitution and not to external pressures.
Justice Sandford is a reminder than an 8:1 judicial majority might reach a legal conclusion based on known-to-be-erroneous information. More than a decade before Galton began to espouse eugenics, well-credentialed geneticists had debunked (or at least estimated a minimum timespan of roughly 8,000 years) the effectiveness of eugenics.
There is a "so what" factor: the eight Justices who believed the eugenic claptrap _may_ have reached the correct conclusion that any perceived "right to bodily integrity" must be limited by societal dictates, even if such societal dictates are nonsensical. We have yet to determine if a portion of society possess the authority and power to force its nonsensical dictates -- it collective religion -- onto others.
Today, an increasing number of scholars are recognizing the influence of the Maskovite Cult which seeks to enshroud the faces of children with various materials not known to produce medical advantages (see, for example, https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/cult-masked-schoolchildren ). Yesterday's Eugenicists outnumbered today's Maskovite Cultists. How small does a group of believers need to be before that group's influence on jurisprudence disappears? Should "scientific fact" -- whatever that might be -- have _any_ role in determining individual rights? Should the "political leaning" of any Justice have _any_ role in determining individual rights?
Realpolitik has many facets. How do we best keep them out of the courtroom?
Your comparing having people wear masks during an infectious disease pandemic to forced sterilization under the eugencists? You're a nut dude.
Genuinely curious: how much longer are you going to try to milk that Big Scary Label? What's the off-ramp?
It'll probably be some point after so many people stop, you know, *dying* from an infectious disease around the world...
But hey, if you want to argue masks mandate =Buck v. Bell, which is what we're talking about, go nuts (well, not that kind of nuts, though both sense may apply).
So, given the inconvenient (but for now still freely accessible) history of huge numbers of deaths from infectious diseases around the world since time immemorial, at some point after never. Got it.
Thanks for the occasional fleeting moment of candor.
Lol, is your argument supposed to be 'there's been a lot of infectious diseases for a long time so we can't react to mitigate the effects of one happening now?' Good argument Dr. Rogan!
I'll make one effort to pierce your contrived veil of ignorance and ad hominem.
Viewed in comparison to the death toll from infectious respiratory viruses that you and I have experienced literally all of our lives, there's nothing meaningful left to mitigate.
Even taking every single reported COVID death as the gospel truth, the death rate from Omicron appears to be converging on somewhere around 3 in 1000, and of course heavily skewed toward the elderly and infirm. That's well in the ballpark of a bad flu year, which you and your cronies of doom likely never gave a rat's ass about and certainly never demanded massive and sustained societal changes over.
And that's just where we are now. As COVID continues to mutate and the population continues to build resistance its effect will continue to trend toward the common-cold level of other well-known coronaviruses, just like the adults in the room said from the beginning, and just as we have seen from every single cycle of this stuff thus far.
The ONLY reason this one seems or feels different at this point is the hyper focus and compulsive counting. Your initial fluffy, say-nothing answer when I asked for the off-ramp strongly suggests you understand all this.
Trundling out old statistics and taking advantage of peoples' general ignorance of the subject to repackage current statistics into scary-looking bloodbath headlines is a) disingenuous, b) irresponsible, and c) tiresome.
You'll have to find something else to try to whip up the masses into a compliant stewpot of frothing fear. This one is tapped out.
Let's see.
CDC estimates that flu has resulted in ... 12,000 – 52,000 deaths annually between 2010 and 2020.
Let's call it 100,000. That's a bit above the highest top end of their 95% C.I.'s for that period.
So a little over .3 per thousand, depending on the year. Which makes your 3/1000 nearly ten times "a bad flu year." Talk about trundling out crappy statistics.
And of course you and your cronies never seem to go on rabid anti-flu-vaccine campaigns. Wonder why covid is different.
Oh dear. I take it everyone in the US gets the flu every year in this weird parallel universe of yours?
Beyond that, CDC estimates are for the infection fatality rate -- everyone that (they think) got it vs. everyone (they think) died. My 3/1000 is the Omicron case fatality rate (actual measured infections vs. actual measured deaths). That means the apples-to-apples IFR statistic for Omicron would be a good deal lower after factoring in unmeasured cases (typically estimated in the order of 2-4x, and probably near the higher end for something like Omicron with much milder symptoms).
My numbers are highly conservative, and intentionally so. Try again.
" That's well in the ballpark of a bad flu year,"
Your premise is of course false, and so the rest of your Jenga tower collapses.
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2022/01/just-like-the-flu
" stewpot of frothing fear."
Again and again, every accusation is a confession. This perfectly describes the folks running around screaming that having to wear a mask at times is the Holocaust or Buck v. Bell!
Um, Mr. "Lawyers, Guns & Money" is doing exactly what I said you purveyors of doom need to stop doing: harping on prior statistics as if they continue to hold true today. They don't.
If that's the best you can do, you really should think hard about your position.
Uh, Brian, let's you think hard: it's only JANUARY. That article gave numbers for 2021. You know, the year that ended way back 29 days ago...
Ackshully, it lumped 2020 and 2021 together into one big scary mass of deaths. But regardless.
The fallacy you and doom-hounds like LG&M keep (intentionally?) falling into, Queenie, is that COVID is not an insular thing that performs the same from year to year (or even cycle to cycle), the resistance of the population is not at all the same as it was back in the earlier days, and treatments for the ever-decreasing proportion of hospitalizations have been significantly fine-tuned. I specifically addressed this fallacy in my original post.
You're just so dead set on there needing to continue to be a problem that you're doing everything but looking at the actual current state of play. That's what matters at this point.
Lol, it's interesting you're not citing to stats on how 'this is over now, efforts not needed!' Also, given it's novel and changing (as you say) it's especially silly to say 'oh, well this three months things seem better, so the HOLOCAUST of wearing masks and standing a bit from each other is TEH NAZISM!
See, Queenie, this is what you do when you're stuck: attribute words and positions to me that bear no resemblance to the ones I clearly laid out, topped with the NAZI!!!111one cherry. All it does is make you look silly and make it clear you have no actual play.
The current statistics are objective, widely available, and uncontroversial, and the math I did with them is basic, clearcut, and conservative. If you have anything of substance to say about that, I'm happy to hear it. And if you have anything about current statistics that is materially different that what I said, I'm happy to look at it. But given the character of what you've chosen to bring to the discussion so far, I'm not holding my breath.
So, you've no substantive response (to my point that, as you say, it's a recent, changing thing and yet you argue we should act as if it's settled into something trivially threatening and that the currently debated efforts are tyrannical)? Shocked.
Nah, I addressed your concerns my original post -- read slowly as many times as you need. It's you that have no substantive response to any of that. You're just slinging confetti trying to distract from that fact.
"(to my point that, as you say, it's a recent, changing thing and yet you argue we should act as if it's settled into something trivially threatening and that the currently debated efforts are tyrannical)? "
No response. Check.
Pasted down here, to aid your slow re-reading:
"And that's just where we are now. As COVID continues to mutate and the population continues to build resistance its effect will continue to trend toward the common-cold level of other well-known coronaviruses, just like the adults in the room said from the beginning, and just as we have seen from every single cycle of this stuff thus far."
Nothing about "a recent changing thing" in there at all. It's become progressively less lethal in every cycle since the initial early 2020 wave, down to its current relatively tame state. Nobody seriously disputes that outside the if-it-bleeds-it-leads media, the grifters profiting from the fear and chaos, and the people they've quite reprehensibly scared to death. Look past the chatter and look at the actual data, if you dare. We have nearly two years of it now, worldwide.
If you ignore the fact that this is a lie, then it becomes true.
I await your thoughtful demonstration of that snarky one-liner, David, using the actual public data equally accessible to all of us.
What you'll find instead is that cumulative CFR is lower at the end of each successive wave. Full stop. You don't even have to squint. And IFR is lower than CFR for reasons I've explained, and that gap continues to increase as variants become milder and more people get asymptomatic cases and aren't arbitrarily testing.
Um, Mr. "Lawyers, Guns & Money" is doing exactly what I said you purveyors of doom need to stop doing: harping on prior statistics as if they continue to hold true today. They don't.
LoB, prior statistics tell us about prior conditions. Taken together, the full range of prior conditions tell us something—not everything—about what the future could bring.
Since the 1918 flu, nothing in this nation's public health history has been even remotely as deadly as what happened in New York City at the outset of the Covid pandemic. It is that experience which tells us, very conservatively, what Covid can do—and did do, despite essentially unprecedented social disruptions put in place which undoubtedly did reduce the damage.
What did happen can happen again. And worse too, can happen. The limit of what Covid will do—at its hypothetical worst—will never be disclosed to us. We are free to approach closer to it by choosing policies recklessly.
That kind of recklessness is what your advocacy has been about. In this discussion, you are the party trying to wave facts away.
Delta was not less lethal than its predecessors.
However, not surprisingly they became better at treating the disease, and of course then developed vaccines.
I could agree with you about making sacrifices to fight covid, but can you point to any country where mask mandates, vaccination mandates, and lock downs are working now?
A funny thing is that conservatives dimly are aware of the importance of representation-they constantly caterwaul in a victimization narrative about their under-representation (discrimination of course!) in the higher echelons of academe, media, etc., and of course say that those institutions don't deserve a whit of public trust because of this.
Of course, imagining them to see through the eyes of someone like themselves, say groups that *really* have been oppressed and poorly represented by those in power for most of our history, is too much of an ask.
Race and sex have been factors the entire time. Unless you’re delusional and you think it’s just a huge coincidence that of 115 Supreme Court justices there have been 4 white women and 2 black men and 1 Hispanic woman. That didn’t happen by accident.
Let's say Adams had been willing to appoint a black woman lawyer in 1798 - how many options did he have to choose from?
Oh and why do you think he didn’t have a lot of options there, dude?
A person can decide whether they will filter the candidates they consider on the basis of race, sex or similar traits. It would generally be racist or sexist to do so.
Unless that person is a long-time dictator, they cannot decide whether their society has highly qualified candidates that satisfy particular identity checkboxes. It takes a perverted sense of propriety to think it morally wrong to chose a candidate on the basis of who is highly qualified.
Oh. It’s okay to just appoint white guys if society does the filtering for them to the point they can’t even think of anyone else. Great point. Not at all stupid.
What alternative do you propose? Appointing a (potentially much) less-qualified token, whose relative performance would be taken as evidence of inherent group differences? I think you only have to look at how, for example, Queen Amalthea treats Justice Thomas to see how that would turn out -- racists gonna racist, even when their victim is Supremely qualified.
How do I treat Justice Thomas?
"racists gonna racist, even when their victim is Supremely qualified"
Every accusation is indeed a confession.
"treats Justice Thomas to see how that would turn out -- racists gonna racist, even when their victim is Supremely qualified"
Uh, every person mentioned on Biden's short list is as 'qualified' based on 'traditional merit' as Thomas was.
Apparently it's OK to just appoint white guys for the sake of appointing white guys because it's OK to appoint based on race.
Historical and sociological context, how does it work?
"The only way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to act like no one else is discriminating on race ever or now!"
It's a silly enough comment now, but Michael's actually pushing it for someone in *1798.* Uncommonly silly doesn't do justice to describe such a comment.
Thanks for re-demonstrating my earlier point about straw men.
You shouldn't walk around with all those dry stalks of cereal plants all over you if you don't want people to point to it.
I get that you want to apply 21st century thinking to 18th century people. It makes you feel superior and all. That does not make it a good idea. Similarly, we should not judge someone as a racist because, in 1798, they did not nominate an entirely imaginary jurist.
Uh, let me help you. If someone in 1798 didn't nominate a black woman that doesn't show them to be especially racist. But if someone does today it certainly doesn't show him to be racist.
Oh, there was certainly a lot of racial and sexual discrimination in the 1700s and later.
But when there were no options to choose, then including those years in your "Supreme Court Nominations Have Always Been Racist" argument is pretty stupid.
It's like complaining about why no astronauts were elected to Congress before 1961.
Uh, the reason why there were no options then was because of....the racism so prevalent at the time.
More than one!
Certainly constitutional. The more important question: If selection is not based predominantly upon qualification, state the rule for selection. Pleasing certain constituencies or accepting the president's sense of "justice" with either reason to be proven foolish should the selection not meet expectations on the bench. Failure on the bench may be lack of competence a vetting error. Imagine the meeting with the president and a candidate suggesting "I may not be the Black Woman of your projections." Won't happen. Or, "I do not yet have the experience required." No way.
Wasn't the rule, "He's my buddy," frequently used?
So-called "qualification" is a bit of a red herring. There are over 500 judges on federal appeals courts and state supreme courts combined.
Is it unreasonable to suppose that 50 of them are good enough to sit on SCOTUS? And that doesn't include non-judges, district judges, me, etc.
Not unreasonable in my book (assuming material experience in the role rather than just having warmed the seat for a short time).
But how many of the candidates under consideration fit that profile?
Well, let's see.
Kruger - Harvard and Yale, clerk for Stevens, seven years on the CA Supreme Court.
Jackson - Harvard and Harvard. Seven years as federal district judge, one on the DC circuit court, clerked for Breyer.
Childs - U of South FL, SC University. Three years a state judge, twelve years a district judge.
You can check the rest.
So IOW, exactly one that meets your criteria (unless you really want to try to make the case that Jackson's ~7 months at the DC Circuit somehow imbued her with enough relevant experience to really move the needle -- judicial positions aren't quite like Scout honor badges).
I hear many who oppose Biden's plan to nominate a black woman protest by saying, "We should appoint the best person, regardless of color or gender." This argument assumes there is an objective test that would rank all potential justices from number one on down--a sort of super LSAT. Of course, there is no such thing.
There are many people who possess the training, temperament, character and experience to become members of the Court. They don't all have to be white, male, ivy league, government attorneys who sat on one of the Courts of Appeal. They don't even need to meet one of these standards. If a president declares that he is will choose nominees who don't fit in this mold, he is neither engaging in affirmative action nor selecting a "lesser" candidate.
And also when they say someone is “objectively better” and point to say, Srinivasan, it’s really telling because at least one candidate, Kruger, has the exact same resume! (Ivy law, SCOTUS clerk, Principal Deputy SG, appellate practitioner, declined an SG appointment, appellate judge)
In fact Kruger is arguably “objectively” better than Sri because 1 she was EiC of Yale Law journal (it’s kind of a bs credential to be sure but notably no current justice or Srinivasan managed that) and 2 she’s actually been on a court of last resort that is arguably more influential. California Supreme Court is the last word on all state law matters and his hugely influential for “state” law issues across the country. DC circuit is often just a stopping point on the way to SCOTUS.
Look, obviously Jackson or Kruger or any other name on the short list are qualified, and there’s no way to objectively rank candidates, and even if we could, no way to predict how they’ll do when they’re actually on the court. While we can draw some line and say people below it are unqualified, there’s a large pool above that line that should all be equally acceptable in a merits sense.
Anyone who claims that Jackson/Kruger/etc. are unqualified are racists and/or partisans. And while we can list resumes and declare one more impressive than another, pretending that this has real world meaning or represents anything other than personal preferences is fooling oneself.
(Now, in retrospect we can certainly evaluate justices.)
So if Biden nominates one of the aforementioned, there’s no grounds to complain about the choice. But that doesn’t change the fact that he shouldn’t announce that he’s only going to choose between one of those. No, he’s not the first president to use political criteria and will not be the last unless the pro-disease party causes all of humanity to be wiped out before 1/20/25. But that doesn’t constitute a defense, and he made it more egregious by pre-narrowing it down to such a small segment of the pool.
And while I understand he had already made the promise, wouldn’t it be a far better message to say, “I considered 100% of the reasonable candidates and I thought she was the most impressive,” rather than “I eliminated 95% of the choices right off the bat and then she was the best of what was left?”
I can see how it’s a politically tactical mistake. I mean the better way is to say that’s what you’re gonna do without actually saying it: i.e. your shortlist gets leaked out and it’s Kruger, Jackson, Childs and throw in Watford and Srinivasan to throw people off even if you have someone set in mind.
And then when someone says you’re doing an affirmative action or whatever point out that they never asked Trump this when his first pick was Gorsuch, Pryor, Hardiman and Thapar. All men, 3/4 white (pick goes to white guy). And then how they also didn’t comment when the potential nominees were Kavanaugh, Pryor, Hardiman, Kethledge, Gruenndler, Barrett, Thapar (even more white guys than last time, pick went to the white guy)
I definitely think that's the better way; the problem, of course, is what I said in my last sentence above: he had already made the promise. So that fig leaf would be vanishingly small.
Oh yeah. Too late now.
Whoops. The only part of that that was supposed to be boldfaced was the un in unqualified.
Don't love pandering to the idpols myself, from a political perspective.
But it sure does make this commentariat show their ass, so there is a silver lining.
Taking all that as true, it would appear there's no meaningful toolset left to draw any sort of principled line between "qualified" and "unqualified" either. Methinks you've proven a bit too much.
Saying everyone above a certain threshold cannot be ranked does not mean the threshold doesn't exist. Optimization and threshold sorting are two very different processes.
Maybe there are some awesome potential justices below the threshold. No process is perfect. But that a ranking of the justices above the threshold is necessarily arbitrary.
" Anyone who claims that Jackson/Kruger/etc. are unqualified are racists and/or partisans. "
Those bigots are your fellow conservatives and Republicans, Mr. Nieporent. They also dominate the Federalist Society and are the core target audience of the Volokh Conspiracy, for some reason.
No the argument does not assume an objective test of any kind.
When you rule out 90+% of the candidates based on Democrats' wrong-sex, wrong-race prejudices, it mostly precludes any chance to get the best person for the job. That doesn’t mean there’s an objective metric for who the best person is, only that prejudice/favoritism almost certainly prevented you from picking the best person.
best person for the job
That doesn’t mean there’s an objective metric for who the best person is
Ummm....
Are you so limited that you can't understand that a best person might exist without a known, objective metric that proves who is best?
Can you understand that frivolously discarding 90+ percent of the candidates makes it unlikely to choose the best person? Because young children can probably understand that.
If the best person is not identifiable, then arbitrarily reducing the set size doesn't change the probability you'll pick the best one.
This is simple math.
"(So much about reality is indeed unfortunate.)"
This could be applied to the entire subject.
Any theory which wouldn't allow the President to consider the race, sex, political views, etc. of the people (s)he appoints would be so far away from reality as to cast the theory into doubt.
Now, I'll be quite be willing to be pleasantly surprised and see Pres. Biden appoint a good candidate, and if by happenstance he rules out some of the worst candidates because they're the wrong race, and ends up accidentally appointing a black woman who's a stellar judge, then that would be great. There are excellent judges who happen to be black women.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janice_Rogers_Brown
Though I'm not 100% percent confident that one of these excellent judges will end up being nominated.
You may like Rogers' decisions, but I don't think highly of someone who is unable to distinguish between the New deal and the Bolshevik.
For once, I agree with you: The New Deal was much more inspired by Hitler and Mussolini than by Lenin.
However, that is just the difference between national socialism and the international kind -- Rogers Brown was right that the New Deal was fundamentally socialist, especially by the watered-down and inclusive definition often bandied about today.
That Jonah Goldberg class at Glenn Beck U is really working for ya there Mikey.
Relax. These clingers will all be replaced, and modern American society will continue to improve against their wishes and efforts. Let them indulge their delusions of adequacy and long-term relevance as they await replacement by their betters.
Don't troll.
You want to discuss the issue of a black woman on the Supreme Court but don't want to mention the most prominent judge who is a black woman?
Your post has two contradictory premises:
1) Picking justices should be ideologically blind.
2) The best justices include these two conservative ones you happened to pick out of a hat.
From these axioms, you find you are concerned about Biden's picks.
You did not make a serious post. And your axiom 1 is something no one is arguing.
As usual, I suppose I may as well point out that I didn't say the stuff you imputed to me.
Will you keep relying on your fertile imagination to figure out what I said, or will you apply more earth-bound, reality-based tools of interpretation?
Now, I'll be quite be willing to be pleasantly surprised and see Pres. Biden appoint a good candidate...
There are excellent [conservative] judges who happen to be black women.
That doesn't even come close to the statements you imputed to me.
Put down the crack pipe and get back to the real world.
And contrary to your bizarre fantasy, I actually *rejected* the idea of ideological blindness in picking justices:
"Any theory which wouldn't allow the President to consider the race, sex, political views, etc. of the people (s)he appoints would be so far away from reality as to cast the theory into doubt."
Note my inclusion of "political views" among the things it would be unrealistic to stop the President from considering, you loon.
And I noticed your slipping "[conservative]" into my quote.
I'll be charitable and assume that it's crack which clouds you mind and stops you noticing that I was *defending* President Biden's power to consider race, political views, etc.
Since he hasn't actually announced a candidate yet, I can't definitively say it's a bad candidate. I don't have high hopes, naturally, given that he's pledged by his own platform to "appoint U.S. Supreme Court justices and federal judges who...will respect and enforce foundational precedents, including Brown v. Board of Education and Roe v. Wade."
https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/08/2020-Democratic-Party-Platform.pdf
No candidate who believes Roe v. Wade should be respected and enforced is a good candidate, since they're in favor of rewriting the constitution to attack the weak and vulnerable.
You picked only conservative candidates, so slipping it in there was a reflection of what you were saying.
You were *concerned* Biden was ignoring these conservative candidates. Which means you want Biden to be ideologically neutral in his picks.
Which is, of course, nonsense.
No candidate who believes Roe v. Wade should be respected and enforced is a good candidate.
Yeah, really concerned Biden won't pick candidates you like.
As I said, quit trolling.
Quit making shit up.
"You were *concerned* Biden was ignoring these conservative candidates. Which means you want Biden to be ideologically neutral in his picks."
Absolute arrant nonsense, I said no such thing and you would know that if you weren't an imbecile.
I never once said he should be ideologically neutral, that would be a betrayal of the Constitution, and if you were more intelligent you'd know that was always my position. Ideologically neutral would mean neutrality between applying the Constitution and rewriting it.
I'm pretty much convinced he'll pick a bad candidate who would rewrite the Constitution rather than apply it, just as you would prefer.
The fact that Brown isn't going to be considered of course cuts the legs right out from under the facile argument that 'all Biden cares about' is race and gender.
Has anyone suggested that that's literally all he cares about?
Tucker Carlson said George Floyd’s sister is the obvious choice given Biden’s criteria
And Tucker Carlson takes another step toward being invited to join the Volokh Conspiracy . . .
Look at Leondra Kruger’s resume and look at anyone else’s, particularly Barretts, on every traditional metric she is an “objectively” better candidate.
Then why not just say that?
Probably because Sotomayor having an objectively stellar resume didn’t matter anyway. Republicans thought she was affirmative action, and the Turleys and Shapiros of the world, very mediocre men, said she wasn’t smart.
She must be good - her Wikipedia entry says she "became the [California Supreme] court's second African-American woman justice, following Janice Rogers Brown."
And while Brown is the daughter of a sharecropper in Alabama, Kruger has a much better family - not merely the daughter of a doctor, but the daughter of *two* doctors!
By nominating Kruger, Biden would show he's not some kind of left-wing populist, ranting about inherited privilege.
Do you still have faith that Jesus is going to save your side in the culture war?
Are you really that gullible?
You and the voices in your head should find a room where you can argue with each other to your hearts' content.
I this it's heart's content. (ie, one heart). Even for a person with many real or imagined heads/brains/voices; only one heart in that one body.
#GoodGrammarWhileTrolling
A guy who claims an imaginary man is in the sky, being almighty, thinks he should disparage anyone else with respect to "voices in the head?"
Are you a victim of adult-onset superstition, or was it a combination of childhood indoctrination and profound gullibility that has done this to you, Cal Cetin?
Again, you haven't backed up your assertion that I think Jesus will save any *side* in the culture war.
You just post one talking point after another, when one point is rebutted you scuttle away from it and post something new.
He's. A. Troll.
YMMV, but I don't think a family is much better because one has doctors in it and the other its compared to doesn't.
You know what you need?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ73Q4DwrGM
I don't click on random youtube links internet folks provide. Is this something about how families with doctors in them are better?
If you don't have time for a 14-second clip from The Simpson's, I don't know how to help you.
Basically, it says you couldn't tell sarcasm if it walked up and bit you in your flabby ass.
Ah, you were just arguing that Brown was better because of her achievements despite her less well off family? That's also...interesting.
Well, although sarcasm has it's rewards, I'll just turn the sarcasm off for now and make some random comments.
I'm totally for each generation working hard so the generation following can start with an advantage. So if you have someone who's the daughter of two physicians, OK, she didn't earn her advantages but her forbears did, so I certainly won't hold that against her. I would praise her forbears. And if she took what she got and did stuff with it like becoming a good judge, then great.
Brown seems to have had to lift herself up a bit more than Kruger did. Maybe that fact, plus belonging to a people who have been on the receiving end of government for centuries, made her a libertarian (perhaps more of a libertarian than I am). Or maybe it was simply her superior education and knowledge of history.
But as I said, Biden at least rejects the mindless populism of invoking jealousy against "unearned privilege." At least he rejects it when selecting people to populate the government. Hopefully he'll reject it when setting other policies, too.
"Brown seems to have had to lift herself up a bit more than Kruger did."
So you're a big Sotomayer nomination fan, right?
Oh, well then you give some of the game away, don't you?
"made her a libertarian (perhaps more of a libertarian than I am). Or maybe it was simply her superior education and knowledge of history"
So in the end the stuff about background was a handwave.smokescreen. Your real comment is 'this gal won't do what I want, like another gal I know.' Doesn't matter about their background.
Who saw that coming?
I don't know if Kruger will "do what I want" - and I wouldn't refer to either of those two ladies as a "gal" - especially not black ladies, after the history of demeaning language to which they've been subject.
What were you thinking?
I have no idea who "sotomayer" is. What was he or she nominated for?
I *am* aware of a Justice named Sotomayor who was good on a couple Fourth Amendment cases. Her record in general...well, she's still on the court, isn't she? Time to grow.
If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball!
I have nothing to fear from your balls.
There's a simpler reason to not get excited over race, religion, sex, etc in high level appointments: the field is too small to be enforceable. If someone were to sue for discrimination, how could they prove they were more suited for the job and had been passed over? All any appointer would have to do is not state his preferences; even Biden could do that if necessary.
The alternative is some kind of merit testing and promotional hierarchy -- so many years of trial experience, then a test, then so many years of appellate experience, then a test, and so on.
Who would grade these tests, since we're told that the decisions of these very judges constitutes "the law"?
Exactly.
He should have kept his fucking mouth shut and just done it. He’d end up in the same place while avoiding all of this distracting crap. And doing it this way diminishes the credibility of the nominee and gives critics another angle for attack, whether that’s fair or not.
That would have been the smart thing to do and it sure appears that Biden and his circle ain’t all that clever.
I don't think I agree. If he had indeed kept his mouth shut and just nominated a black woman, he would've been subjected to the exact same criticism from the exact same people. But of course it's a counterfactual, so who knows?
Indeed, they said this about Sotomayer just as much and Obama didn't say he was specifically going to nominate a Hispanic woman. All such nominations are just automatically suspect to some people...
Um, the "they" who first said that about Sotomayor (spelling!) were liberals, not "the exact same people" we're discussing here.
Did any prominent liberals* besides Turley say that? (He was at the time a noted msnbc liberal). I know some really wanted Diane Wood or Harold Koh instead but I don’t remember them going full on “its AA she’s not smart” (again besides Turley).
Yes. Larry Tribe did. (If it had just been Turley I wouldn't have even mentioned it, because his credentials as a 'liberal' are rather tarnished.)
And Jeffrey Rosen did, writing a long piece in the New Republicthat included this:
Ah. Thanks. Fair enough.
Although lol at a second circuit clerk thinking it’s a red flag that a federal judge has an “inflated opinion” of themselves.
I don't think Turley (who doesn't count at all of course) plus Rosen counts much for the generalization 'liberals.'
But lots of conservatives did say that.
TBF Rosen was apparently repeating the view of supposed democrats from the Second Circuit.
Yes, and Larry Tribe's liberal credentials are also impeccable.
Can you link to Tribes comments?
Yes, unfortunately. Tribe certainly is a liberal, but all he ever does is make them look bad with his constant law-prof brain.
http://eppc.org/docLib/20101028_tribeletter.pdf
Thanks. That's a pretty remarkable letter, it reeks of self-importance. "Don't nominate Sotomayer because I don't think she's as smart as she thinks she is instead nominate the Dean of my school!"
I didn't see in there where he argued Sotomayer was a bad pick on qualifications, though. I also don't see him saying she was being picked 'because she was Hispanic.' Indeed, while he mentions her 'demographic appeal' he does so in the same sentence as her 'personal history.'
Why does it diminish the credibility of the nominee, unless you assume that there just can't/won't be one of the most qualified persons for the job in the group he's going to focus on?
I didn’t say that I thought it did to me. I said that it would in the eyes of the public. Not that it should, but that it would. That’s the “fair or not” part.
The large part of the public that would think that was going to think that about most any minority candidate regardless of what was said.
The point is that doing what Biden did gives that argument more weight. There’s a cost to doing what he did and absolutely no gain.
Bevis,
My understanding is that Biden (for good or for bad) made a deal with Jim Clyburn for an absolutely essential endorsement before the S. Carolina primary. Most people (including me) think that w/o this endorsement, Biden likely loses S. Carolina. And with that, disappears from the race, and Dems end up with Bernie Sanders...the one Dem candidate that Trump would have beaten--and beaten easily. And the "quo" of this quid pro quo was that he publicly announce that Biden would nominate a black woman to the Sup. Ct, if given the chance.
Now, I don't think is a good look for Biden, or any other president. But most people here seem to be saying, "Yes, these sorts of deals go on, but it's bad that he said it out loud." Maybe. But to be the devil's advocate: Isn't it better if politicians actually DO tell us in advance what their sleazy deals are? So we can make an informed decision while in the voting booth on election day? Imagine if Biden had done what most politicians do, and keep this under his hat? And then, only this week, the story broke. It would be a scandal. But NO ONE is claiming this...and that's because Biden could not have been more clear that he was going to do exactly this, and millions more (compared to Trump) preferred this. They voted for Biden with their eyes wide open.
In other news; the often-not-stupid (but-not-today) Nikki Haley made the moronic request that Biden and K. Harris resign. I always knew that Haley was a closet Democrat and feminist . . . scheming to get appointed our first female president: Let me introduce President Nancy Pelosi!!!
Sisterhood power, baby!!!!!!!
"...that he publicly..." = that Biden publicly announce...
" My understanding is that Biden (for good or for bad) made a deal with Jim Clyburn for an absolutely essential endorsement before the S. Carolina primary. "
Is there evidence supporting that understanding, or is it just right-wing delusion derived from the Fox-Free Republic-Federalist-Heritage-Stormfront-Newsmax constellation?
It came from the Biden camp itself, so I tend to believe it. I don't think it reflects horribly on Biden...makes him a pragmatist more than anything else.
(If this story sucks up most of the oxygen at Fox News (et al), and Fox spends less time trying to kill Americans via Covid misinformation, then I say, "More power to the story...spend even more time on it, please!")
I think the criticism would be just the same.
In fact, you might interpret his commitment as a clever ruse to discredit criticism. The Republicans have attacked the nominee without even knowing who she is. How could it be more clear that their objections are based on race and gender?
If he had not made the commitment they would have had to wait until the nominee was named, and then would have had all sorts of BS reasons why they didn't care about the race/gender aspect. But they couldn't wait, so they've given the game away.
Talk about "not too clever."
Sure. When people say “he only picked her because she’s a black woman” it’s gonna be hard to credibly argue that that statement is false because, you know, he said he did.
When people say “he only picked her because she’s a black woman” it’s gonna be hard to credibly argue that that statement is false because, you know, he said he did.
I don't think that's quite right. It would be accurate to say he considered only black women, but he has several excellent choices in that group. So if he picks, say, Kruger, it wouldn't be accurate to say that was the sole reason.
OTOH, the Republicans, by storming on before the pick is made, have made it obvious that they would oppose any black woman (OK, not Rogers Brown, but any that might actually be picked.)
And Biden is a moron. He had to cheat to finish last in his class at law school.
Our last President was notso brightso either. It’s OT to this topic but maybe we could try electing a non-imbecile next time.
I think that most people who look objectively and dispassionately at the last 5-10 years can easily admit: "Hey, we know that there is no way that an upper age limit on the president (or SCOTUS members, for that matter) is constitutional. But since it's is a sad part of nature that, as we get older and older, we diminish some in physical areas. AND, in cognitive ones. So, maybe, maybe, we should not be having people in these most important positions who are significantly impaired, or sometimes damn close to senile."
This would obviously take an Amendment. But even if 90% of people agree in the abstract, there's no way it would pass, as one party or another would see a short-term political disadvantage and would fight it.
Only a liar or a fool would say that Biden in his 70s is as adept as Biden in his 50s or 60s. Only a liar or a fool would say that Trump in his 70s is as adept as he was 10-20 years ago. Same with Justice Thomas, same with RGB, and so on. Okay, we've identified a problem. Now...what could we possibly do about it? (Short answer: Absolutely nada.)
The problem with this view is that biological age and chronological age are not the same thing. Due to genetics and lifestyle, some people maintain their mental acuity better when they age than others.
I'm certainly not imputing brain cells where none exist. But that ship sailed when he wrote the check on the campaign trail, in one of his more shameless bits of racial pandering when he was faltering badly in the polls.
He wouldn't have been able to get away from that even had he said nothing about it now.
I think it's true that he was 'racial pandering' in the sense that he was saying he'd take a step to rectify the bigotry that shut out black women from such an influential position through the vast majority of our history. I don't get that as shameless but I get YMMV.
I wasn't referring to the act itself as shameless, but more the timing and circumstances of when he whipped it out (to try to pump up the black vote just before the South Carolina primary). A bit less transparent than Hillary droppin' Gs, but not much.
Less transparent? Even on your own terms that doesn't make sense.
Hillary's pandering was marginally more transparent. What's so complicated about that?
More transparent than saying 'I will nominate someone like you if you vote for me in the upcoming primary!'? I don't think you understand your own talking points here...
If he had actually said those words, I'd agree with you. Feel free to fill me in if I missed it.
But no, the phony accent was pretty awful, particularly in a side-by-side with her normal voice. It's worth a listen if you didn't run across it at the time.
Wait a minute, regardless of the wording, a politician facing an immediate primary dominated by X group promising to appoint someone of X group to one of the most powerful positions in the land if elected is LESS transparent of pandering than someone trying to talk in the accent of Y group?
Like I said, if you're going to confidently parrot these talking points you should reflect on them a bit more!
Talking points? I'm expressing an opinion on a subjective matter. Your opinion appears to be different. It's unclear why you're not able to be at peace with that.
No, no, you've got two talking points: Breitbart Headlines: Hillary dropped her G's; Benghazi Greatest Cover Up EVER! and another more current one: Biden's Nomination Race Pandering!!!
You read them both and dutifully reported them, but didn't 'get' what they were about. 'I told her to make a black suit, but she got confused...'
Good grief. You just confirmed you literally cannot be ok with the two of us having different opinions about something requiring subjective judgment.
You have a really basic problem in somewhere in your wiring. Hopefully you get it sorted out someday.
I suspect Biden (or his handlers if you are into that) did a cost/benefit analysis and came to the conclusion that coming out in public about appointing a black female SCJ would help at the margins while those who would be upset about it were never going to like anyone Biden would appoint.
It provides a small, temporary distraction from all of Biden's other failures though.
Well, there's a difference between a candidate who "happens to be" X vs. a candidate who "was chosen because they are" X.
The first is equality. The second is X-ism.
Sorry, meant to add: and the difference is especially stark when the X in question is an attribute that has no relation to the job, and in fact is an attribute that isn't even under the candidate's control.
Then X-ism is just plain dumb.
That's dumb because the reason is 'chosen because they are X, a group that was kept off this court for most of our history because of X-ism.' Being aware of long standing racism, sexism, etc., targeting a group unfairly and wanting to help people from that group 'advance' (to borrow a term!) isn't 'X-ism.'
Yes it is, you started off so well. It's just X-ism you happen to like.
Nope, to repeat back to your conclusory answer: "Being aware of long standing racism, sexism, etc., targeting a group unfairly and wanting to help people from that group 'advance' (to borrow a term!) isn't 'X-ism."
As I've said before, do you want to argue that the United Negro College Fund engages in racism? Was it engaged in racism back when it was founded in the 1940s? You're being silly.
"Being aware" is not X-ism. Choosing because of X is.
Choosing because you're aware that the group is targeted and therefore unfairly excluded is not X-ism.
Choosing because of “X” is X-ism. Period. The fact that you approve of the reason doesn’t change what it is.
You're not responding to me, I said "Choosing because you're aware that the group is targeted and therefore unfairly excluded is not X-ism."
I mean, as I've asked here before, do you think the United Negro College Fund was engaged in racism when it worked to raise funds in the 1950s *only for black prospective students?* You're trying to wrap a bumper sticker around an issue too complex for that.
To put it another way, if a President says 'I want to pick a person of X color or gender because I think someone of that color or gender are awesome or superior based on their color or gender' then yes, that's obviously X-ism. But if they say 'I want to pick a person of X color or gender because I think those persons have been unfairly excluded from that kind of important position' that's quite different. The focus isn't on the race or gender, it's on responding to the unfairness the race or gender has been the target of.
You can say "quite different" all you want, but that does not make it so. It is merely Kendi-style racism: the idea that past discrimination can only be "solved" by present and future discrimination.
But I don't just say 'quite different,' I've spent a fair amount of times and words arguing *why* it is. You might want to try this in your rebuttals!
"past discrimination can only be "solved" by present and future discrimination."
Question begging, my entire point is that the latter isn't like the former.
Actually it is racism to discriminate against people in order to "balance out" past racism. First, the person you are "helping" may be very privileged. Second, the person you are are "hurting" by discriminating against them may not be.
Preferring individuals based on racial generalizations (even accurate racial generalizations) is racism. The reason we reject generalizations is not because those generalizations aren't supported by data, but because it is unfair to people who do not fit into stereotypes created by generalizations.
" Actually it is racism to discriminate against people in order to "balance out" past racism. "
Just as it is racism to be a Republican and racism to be a conservative these days.
Actually it is racism to discriminate against people in order to "balance out" past racism. First, the person you are "helping" may be very privileged. Second, the person you are are "hurting" by discriminating against them may not be.
Nope. Not racism. Instead, anti-racism, incompetently managed. Or, at least as likely, opportunistic politics, managed as always—but with an eye to giving lip service to anti-racism. Or, in corporate personnel instances, utter hypocrisy, but not racism.
The threshold for racism gets crossed when policy with actual malign implications for Black people, for instance, gets defended as entitled to neutral consideration, without regard to race. Cryptic racism begins when you try to put out of sight the racial damage your preferred outcome will inflict. A history of previous racial injustice inflicted on people of that race is necessarily part of that.
Actually, it is. You saying you aren’t racist doesn’t change the fact that you advocate for racial discrimination.
“But I have good reasons for engaging in racial discrimination.”
Everyone who engages in racial discrimination thinks they have a good reason for doing so and they always think that their own racism is OK.
“But the racial discrimination I want to engage (in based on crude stereotypes) is different. I have good motives.”
Typically, even KKK members believe they have good motives and good reasons for doing what they do.
At the end of the day, all racial discrimination is based on racial stereotypes and judging people based on their skin color. That is unavoidably racist, no matter how pure you think or proclaim your motives to be. That you imagine that your racism is directed at people who are more privileged (based on crude generalizations without actually verifying that fact) doesn’t make it any better.
I think that distinction is just an invitation to pretextual justification after the fact. If I recall, George Bush senior said a similar thing when he nominated Justice Thomas. I'm not sure anyone was really fooled. In my humble opinion, it's okay that Bush selected Thomas because he is black, just as it was fine that President Washington nominated William Cushing because he was from Massachusetts.
The difference is you won't intentionally exclude someone on the basis of an irrelevant attribute vs. you will.
That ain't pretext.
The Queen agrees with this distinction, she just thinks it's salutary in this instance. At least she's honest, which is a nice departure in these kinds of discussions.
It's not an irrelevant attribute to recognize that the attribute has been discriminated against for such an influential, high profile position for most of our history. You're on the simplistic level of arguing the same thing as 'shooting a man for his wallet and shooting a man because he's coming at you with a knife are both the same thing, acts of shooting!'
What SCOTUS needs more than anything else is a justice with experience as a criminal defense attorney.
Yes. Absolutely. Someone who will pull a Thomas and start saying Whren or Atwater were wrongly decided for the next 30 years until it eventually becomes true.
Not a full career but KBJ was a public defender for I think at least 3 years. But more than zero is better than anyone on the court now.
Her senate questionnaire says 2005-2007. Obviously that could be close to the three years, but the profiles I've seen in the last week all seem to call it two. I haven't been able to find anything with the exact dates.
I'm a little dubious that's enough time to have a lot of transformative experiences, although I suppose her decision to take the job in the first place would tend to reflect the kind of worldview you're looking for.
How transformative it is depends on the person and the particular experiences. We think clerkships are transformative for obvious reasons.
And anecdotal but, I did criminal law clinic in law school where we defended indigent people charged with misdemeanors. One of my friends in it was dead set on being a prosecutor after law school; after that brief experience she got a job as a public defender and after a year of that she’s a super committed PD who probably won’t ever be a prosecutor.
So yes, brief work experiences can be transformative.
It also needs a justice nominated straight out of state appellate court, and maybe even a justice who wasn't a judge at all.
Kruger is on California supreme. Kagan wasn’t a judge so there is recent history with that.
State appellate court experience is a desirable characteristic, but why 'straight out of'?
Arguably your last job is going to be a big factor on how you think about your new one. Bring a fresh perspective that won’t be subordinated to life on a circuit court. I mean: not having four Ivy league clerks, having to review the wild records that can be created state trial courts, dealing with a much less “elite” level of lawyering, not really having the time to go on weird political rants because you’re reviewing so many run of the mill things might influence how you approach SCOTUS differently.
"I think high-level government appointments are a very different matter from ordinary hiring"
Harvard could make a similar argument. Harvard is such an elite college that admission is like a high-level appointment into the ruling class.
I agree. This is the nub of EV's argument and it makes no sense.
Why would high level government appointments be different from any other kind of discretionary appointment, from SCOTUS Justice to pastry cook in a Colorado cakeshop ?
In each case the employer / appointer will have his own reasons for preferring X to Y, and the EV argument seems to be that a poltician's reasons are more important than a local mayor's reasons, or a car company CEO's reasons, or a cake shop owner's reasons. Why ?
This sounds just like special pleading for politicos.
Harvard matriculating classes are large -- about 550 law school students, and three times as many undergraduates. You can use statistical tools there that do not apply when considering one-off appointments.
But fundamentally the goals and context are different. It is hard to predict who will be a "successful" Supreme Court justice, and the appointment is explicitly political. There should be no justiciable basis for trying to read a president's mind to say "President A would have chosen individual X over Y, except for race[/sex/whatever]". That would overturn the president's authority to nominate whom he wishes and subject it to extra-constitutional judicial review.
The same principle applies to a mayor or governor, within the scope of their powers to nominate people. Explicitly religious institutions have similar prerogatives with a narrower scope.
Also, something like a cake shop could, in practice, select employees on the basis of race or sex for a while before the pattern became actionable (unless they tipped their hand). The same logic applies to Supreme Court appointments -- although one might check whether bias is observable in a president's entire set of appointments.
I'm addressing the second half of EV 's comment : My sense is that there is no constitutional problem here, nor, even going beyond the constitutional question, any injustice rather than the first.
As far as "justice" is concerned there's no reason to privilege a President's or a Mayor's whim above that of a cake shop owner. If anything it's the other way round since the President and the Mayor are acting as the people's agents, unlike the cake shop owner who is answerable to nobody.
I agree with Professor Volokh that specifying the race of SCOTUS pick wouldn't be unconstitutional. What I think it does is violate the expectations of citizens, conservatives at least. Conservatives not tending to believe (for whatever reason) that race says much about the qualifications of a person. No true conservative at least.
I for one am much more interested in intellectual curiousity than race.
" What I think it does is violate the expectations of citizens, conservatives at least. "
How much respect should we -- better Americans, especially -- have for the expectations of (poorly educated, roundly intolerant, superstitious, backwater) conservatives?
I don't know that my views on what level of respect is owed to our fellow citizens would matter much to you. You seem to have decided it is very little, at least as concerns conservatives. I'm sure though that you do have a principled baseline level of respect that you feel is owed to others.
But I would like to thank you for taking the time to reply to my comment.
Biden could appoint Anita Hill.
Black, check; woman, check.
Video of Joe as chair of the senate judiciary committee grilling her, whoops, uncheck.
I, for one, am confused by all this talk about a black woman adding diversity to the bench.
If I learned anything from Law & Order over the past several decades, it is that black women are grossly OVER-represented on the bench.
And in commercials.
And in tv shows.
And in movies.
And as sports announcers.
You'd think we lived in South Africa if you watched any mainstream TV.
It's awesome that someone like ABC can make these kinds of comments. Really shows you where they're coming from. For the vast majority of our history blacks were relegated outside of influential positions in real life and entertainment. In very recent times they've been represented a lot and *it sticks in his craw to no end.*
Hey ABC, how do you think blacks felt for the vast majority of our history?
Doesn't equity demand they be 12% represented and not 80%?
We don't share a history, Queen. Yours is black & red-washed.
From what I can see, the OP makes the case that it's constitutional (and just) for a Justice to be appointed based on her race or sex, but I don't see where it distinguished between minority race and sex and majority, so it would presumably be just to appoint a white man based on his race and sex as well.
Am I missing something?
OK, I see:
"Doubtless many political officials, for instance, carefully judge when they should deliberately appoint a high-level official who's a member of a minority group, when they should deliberately appoint someone of a majority group (or of a minority group that is more popular than another minority group among the voters), or when they shouldn't care about the group membership. It's unfortunate that they may have to react to voter biases that way, but I don't think they have a categorical obligation to ignore such biases (again, when it comes to high-level political appointments)."
So the argument isn't limited to certain race or sex based considerations. Fair enough.
No, you're still missing something.
Well let's see. If the court were already mostly black women, and 99% of past justices had been black women, Biden would probably not be making a diversity case for nominating a black woman.
Clear enough. In the political world it is permitted, even encouraged, to ignore a candidates qualifications in favor (or disfavor) of their race, gender, or origin. Qualifications are of secondary importance even though the candidate has a lifetime appointment, can rule with impunity, and whose decisions cannot be appealed. Such thinking is why diversity has gained traction over qualifications and has caused fracturing of the American political dimension.
I'm pretty astounded that conservatives view racial diversity as a threat. It's hard not to see it as a racist instinct.
For example, many people have commented that the current court is full of justices with federal law expertise, but there are no state court jurists, and wouldn't it be great to nominate someone from a state supreme court.
Imagine Biden had promised to do just that. Would we be seeing the same exasperation from conservatives about how the "most qualified" candidates (like Sri) were being passed over in the name of diversity? Obviously not. You're only bent up about the black part.
Maybe blaming and discriminating against certain people who live in the here and now c. 2022 to make up for the supposed transgressions against other people who lived long ago and are mostly dead is a really poor public policy...
“supposed?”
Even you can’t possibly be that dumb/evil.
Please tell me what group of people throughout history have not faced some kind of discrimination over the course of history and what the moral argument is to check pick your favorite victim group to outwardly demonize and discriminate against another one?
Hold on a minute while I get some popcorn.....OK you can begin.
Nice try, this doesn't address your comment of 'supposed transgressions' at all.
Dude, you added “supposed” in front of the word “transgressions” when the “transgressions” were widespread and legal forms of discrimination which were implemented after widespread enslavement.
So yeah. You’re both dumb for this attempted rebuttal. AND evil for the original thought.
Hair splitting FAIL. At the time and place those laws and regulations were in place they were hardly viewed as anything but mainstream. Also, across the world it was a pretty normal thing for certain classes of people in nations to be hold higher forms of status than others. You are want to pigeonhole one select group on people for your own political purposes, blame their current woes on another, all while ignoring almost everyone regardless of a particular class has had to endure historical hardships.
Try putting down the glass of kool aid for a minute and think for yourself. I'll still be here with my popcorn...
Holy shit. You are truly a despicable person.
Says the guy who thinks discriminating on the basis of certain classifications is OK because of some reasons for things that happened generations ago for which no one who has to endure that discrimination is responsible for doing. Nothing evil about that....
You're a pathetic bigot, Jimmy the Dane.
And, interestingly, a typical right-wing fan of this White, male, movement conservative blog.
This blog has reached the point at which its attraction and treatment of bigots reflects on the people who operate this blog.
"You're a bigot for not subscribing to my Good Trouble bigotry!"
It diminishes my respect for the law when expectations trump principles.
The only reason to nominate someone to SCOTUS how they will vote on cases. You nominate those who will vote your way and nothing else matters.
For the people here arguing that Biden must be the real racist for saying he will nominate a black woman to the court, let me ask: when JFK was nominated and then won for President Catholics overwhelmingly were elated and cheered (it was not uncommon for Catholic households to have a framed picture of JFK in their house) the election of the first Catholic POTUS.
Likewise, quite a few Protestants were very angry that a Catholic had become POTUS.
Were these two groups of people equally bigoted?
Ike: appointed Brennan because he was looking for a Catholic.
Kennedy: appointed Goldberg to the "Jewish seat."
Johnson: nominated Fortas to the same seat; appointed Marshall
Reagan: appointed O'Connor because he wanted to name a woman; appointed Scalia because he was Italian
Bush I: appointed Thomas because he was black
Clinton: appointed Breyer and Ginsburg, both Jews, one a woman
Obama: appointed one Jewish woman, Kagan, and one Hispanic woman, Sotomayor
Trump: appointed Barrett, probably because he wanted a woman to provide cover for overruling Roe
All of these nominees had perfectly respectable credentials, but hardly anyone would identify any of them as the fictional, even incoherent, "best" choice. (Thomas's were a bit thin, making it even more obvious that he was named because he was black -- a white candidate with his resume would never have been named.)
Do you want pearls to clutch or a couch to faint on?
All of the above is bad. As Roberts said:
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”
That "Reagan did it" isn't a logical defense.
He's not saying 'Reagan did it' he's saying 'every modern POTUS did it'. At the very least it's a logical defense against the argument 'Biden is doing something egregious!'
I don't think that it is even an argument that Biden isn't doing something egregious. It is possible for Presidents to do egregious things overtime and on a bipartisan basis. This is very superficial level of analysis that does not dig into the heart of the matter.
Are you arguing, as en empirical matter, that conservative pundits are not arguing that Biden here is acting in an unprecedented outrageous way?
You are getting very meta. I am not interested in arguing about what people, whether they call themselves liberals or conservatives are arguing about. I am certainly not interested in generalizing about that, because all liberals and all conservatives do not think the same thing.
I am interested in talking about the issue in a substantive way. There are too many opinions of both liberals and conservatives to even keep track of. I think Biden's actions are egregious. And I think Reagan's actions were also egregious.
Egregious means 'outstanding.'
That is the archaic definition of the word. The modern definition is "outstandingly bad."
Most people do not discriminate based on race, ethnicity, religion, or gender. For some reason, Presidents are much more likely to do so. And that is egregious.
It's not outstandingly bad if common practice.
Such discrimination isn't a common practice among people with hiring authority.
You are implicitly saying that the standards for Presidents should be different. That is a premise I disagree with. Presidents should be role models for other people with hiring authority, not anti-examples.
Both groups violated a basic norm that we should judge people as individuals rather than based on more superficial characteristics.
One reason that MLK is liked across the political spectrum is for this statement:
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I am not interested in referring to anyone who advocates for race-based preferences as a bigot. I do not believe in cancel culture or trying to tell people what they can or can not believe. But I am interested in saying that they are wrong for doing so.
MLK: "A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro."
So MLK was violating the basic norm you speak of?
I never said that MLK was right about everything did I?
One reason that people across the political spectrum can like MLK is that they can accept the principle that people should be judged as individuals.
That isn't to say that MLK did not have undesirable views as well.
Was his view expressed here 'undesirable' and in violation of the norm which you quote of him?
Yes. I do not think that people should be treated the same based on race.
Take, for instance, upper income Nigerian immigrants whose parents are immigrated here and whose jobs were college professors. They certain should not be treated as though they are disadvantaged merely based on the color of their skin.
There might be some instances, of course, where such a person does face discrimination. Like police stops or something like that. And that should be properly addressed. But would it make sense to provide a highly privileged person with a preference for college admission based on a racial stereotype? I think not.
I think that MLK's plea for special treatment is in significant tension with his statement that people should be judged by the content of their character, not their skin color.
Now, maybe MLK didn't "really mean" his comment about not judging people by skin color. If so, that is unfortunate.
Maybe MLK knew something about the complexities of how black people are dealt with that you....don't?
If that is so, you might be able to explain what.
I provided the quote. Actually reading MLK outside of his one favorite conservative quote should be something you can do.
A quote from MLK, regarding an opinion of his, does not indicate that he has knowledge that I lack.
Your argument might be that MLK is right BECAUSE he is MLK. Or something like that. I am unsure.
If there is "something" I don't know that you think demonstrates why we should engage in racial discrimination against white males, feel free to share it.
Did you object when Trump named three Whites to the Supreme Court, Mr. Welker?
Why not?
I think I might know, even if you may not recognize it.
If there is "something" I don't know that you think demonstrates why we should engage in racial discrimination against white males, feel free to share it.
David Welker, you appear not to know that the imaginary white males you refer to were not entitled to particular positions in the first place—but may well have been judged entitled to them by a racist consensus against, for instance, not-imaginary Black males. History points unambiguously to the latter, and struggles to discover the former.
Democrats discriminate based on race and sex whenever they can get away with it. This is one of those times.
All the wrong race and wrong sex people out there might want to consider Democrats' bias against you when you vote. They’re also biased against you if you didn’t get vaccinated, if you work in one of the many industries they hate, if you’re religious, if you live in a red state or are from there, if you live in a rural area, etc. If you’re not exactly like them, they’re probably biased against you and they think you should apologize for something about yourself.
A totally scarifying look into a paranoid and bigoted mind. Just obsessed with imagining the horrible things the people he hates think about him and why.
I think he has a point. Democrats do discriminate.
It is OK to assume that while males are likely to be racist. Or are privileged. Without considering their individual circumstances.
You see people not being canceled for making statements about white males that if made about any other group would not result in cancellation.
You can deny the problem, but that doesn't mean it isn't a problem.
In Congress, you see the Hispanic caucus competing with the Black caucus for resources. Seeing the country as a resource to be divided on the basis of race is not a healthy outlook.
Can you tell me of a prominent Democrat official who says its ok to assume that white males are likely to be racist?
"You see people not being canceled for making statements about white males that if made about any other group would not result in cancellation."
Do you think there might be different social/historical contexts at work there?
"the Hispanic caucus competing with the Black caucus for resources."
Examples?
It is implicit in the idea that you better "watch what you say" unless your words are interpreted by people who will accuse you of racism.
There are a good number of people who think they have something to gain by accusing people of racism. And they are waiting for the opportunity.
You seem the double standard all the time. Black hip hop artist using the N-word. (usually with an "a" rather than an "er") You see white people lip syncing to these songs but skipping the N-word part. You see people of other races lip syncing the whole song, including the N-word part?
Why? Because the white people are worried about being accused of being racist. Because there is a stereotype that white people are racist.
"Can you tell me of a prominent Democrat official who says its ok to assume that white males are likely to be racist?"
Note he couldn't/didn't.
And note he didn't even offer an answer on the other two questions...
Sigh.
When you make requests the involve Googling, you are less likely to get a response.
I remember reading articles at TheHill/Politico about tensions and competition between the Hispanic Caucus and the Black Caucus.
Do I want to Google for them? Maybe. Maybe not. Depends on my mood.
Note, he's got nothing on it all.
You are basing that opinion based on me not making the effort to prove that I have seen such articles in such publications?
Your conclusion is a non sequitor.
In fact, you are equally able to Google and research the topic.
You seem to be a White, male clinger trying desperately to persuade people you are a libertarian . . . but libertarian drag is almost always unconvincing, even garish.
It is OK to assume that while males are likely to be racist. Or are privileged. Without considering their individual circumstances.
No. It's not.
You see people not being canceled...OK, use all the counterfactuals you want, they don't count as evidence.
Read the things Ben says Democrats hate. It's more than white people. And yet you ignore all the other nonsense and stopped to defend this one grievance. Come on, man.
It’s funny because I’ve heard zero democratic politicians say mean things about rural areas, whereas as I hear conservative politicians say mean things about the coasts and the cities on a regular basis.
Have you ever heard the term "Flyover country"?
Or maybe heard of Ed Koch? The major Democrat politician and mayor of New York that lost the primary for Governor of New York in large part due to his public mockery of rural voters?
Or maybe you've heard of Barrack Obama, and his "bitter clingers" in rural towns?
Kamala Harris, who thinks rural voters are too primitive to use a photocopier?
Clinton and the famous deplorables that are "racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic" should be familiar to you.
Speaking of Clinton, remember her work with James Carville to attack those white "trailer trash" women that didn't like being raped?
President Joe Biden, who thinks that minorities - especially those in rural areas - don't know how to get online?
Maybe former White House Chief of Staff, mayor of Chicago, Democrat Congressman, head of the House Democratic Caucus, and now Ambassador to Japan Rahm Emanuel? Heard of him? He's one that has insulted rural residents a lot - they are "worthless" and "ignorant", jealous of the urban elites because "We have Chef Wolfgang Puck, they have Chef Boyardee" and that rural areas were pissed off for being the "passed-over states" and "They don’t hate us, they want to be us".
Nancy Pelosi, who thinks that rural voters are ignorant and bigoted idiots who are stuck "voting against their own interests"?
Chuck Schumer, who has echoed that, and claimed that opposition to him is because of racism and "whiteness"?
That sentiment has been well spread by Democrats in office, and is so well known it has a tagline and a book: "What's the Matter with Kansas?"
Don't forget the endless state-specific insults, either - Alabama, Arkansas, Kentucky, etc, are often treated as ignorant, racist, poor, and all-around bad merely for being "rural" and not-coastal.
And, of course, at the local level it gets pretty bad. The recent local elections had radio ads that were crazy - one set of dueling ads had one that called the opposition "The Redneck Taliban" and the other referred the their opponent as a "sexual deviant".
Seems like you had fund finding this stuff, Lets go through it:
Ed Koch: mayor of New York City from 1978 to 1989. Not a good sign that far back is where you started.
Obama's bitter clingers quote was not his best moment, but wasn't really hating on rural people, was it? It explained how many Democratic administrations had failed them.
Kamala Harris is right when talking about how access to a copying machine isn't easy for everyone.
Clinton didn't mention anything rural. Funny you'd make that assumption, eh?
I don't recall Paula Jones, but I don't think that was about rural/urban, chief.
As for Biden, the digital divide is real. You....don't get out to rural places much, do you?
Rahm Emanuel. I could tell you thought he was weak because you wrote all his questionable accolades as though that means he speaks for all Democrats.
voting against their own interests is an argument every candidate makes about people that don't vote for them.
Chuck Schumer didn't talk about rural in whatever you're thinking about....you seem to be wandering.
"What's the Matter with Kansas" is a polemic from over 15 years ago, not a Democratic playbook.
You couldn't stick to your thesis, you took quotes out of context, and you nutpicked the rest going back as far as 40 years.
Not very well done. All I get is *your* resentment about imagined hatred of you, much like Ben. Seems to be going around a lot of the folks in this commentariat - being driven by speculative resentment.
As usual, Sarcastro lives only in the world where events that aren't recent don't exist, and everything else has "context" that mysteriously makes things go his way (even though he can never explain how that special "context" works).
I mean, the original claim was that no Democrat had ever said anything bad about rural areas, and yet... there you are admitting that it happens! And you are also admitting you don't understand most of my references - "whatever you are talking about" is a great sign you don't even know what was said, but you didn't let that stop you from defending it!
Just as one example, Obama's "bitter clingers" was explicitly about small town and rural residents, just as it was explicitly an insult. But nope, here's Sarcastro to "context" it all away.
And I don't know why you are trying to drag me into this. I never stated my opinion, and didn't say a word about 'resentment'. It's all you making up stuff as part of your usual ad hominem attacks. I merely pointed out that LTG's claim was trivially false, and suddenly you are here attacking me - based on nothing more than your bigoted prejudices. Tell me, when did I ever say that I felt 'resentment' or 'hatred of me'? In fact, how much of my life have I lived in rural areas? You certainly must know, since you just attacked me for it.
When you need to go back longer than I've been alive, I consider it a sign you are reaching.
The original claim was that LTG had heard zero democratic politicians say mean things about rural areas, not that they never happened.
Your rejection of context says a lot about your goals here. You don't care about the truth, just burnishing your victimhood credentials. Or, rather the victimhood credentials of rural people you claim to speak for, because it's pretty clear you don't live in the country.
"When you need to go back longer than I've been alive, I consider it a sign you are reaching." So any time you mention racism or anything else bad that happened before 1989 you're reaching. Got it.
Have you ever heard the term "Flyover country"?
Sure. But make it a point to notice. It's almost always a right winger complaining, not a left-winger using the term. For instance, Toranth, just now.
So you completely agree with all the rest then.
Ben: Democrats are awful, evil people, they think entire groups of people are awful and evil!
The least self aware man in the world?
I think Ben is about 24 and living in his mom's basement. So, yeah. Not a crowd with a superior self-awareness quotient. (This is exactly the trait that Steve Bannon picked up on to build his disaffected-white-guy movement. https://www.thewrap.com/how-world-of-warcraft-propelled-steve-bannon-to-the-white-house/)
So if Trump promised to only appoint white men, you’d be OK with that? Doubt it!
Can you imagine the obtuseness of someone who thinks this is a zinger?
Black Vagina's we know are key requirements to being good jurists.
Wise Black Vagina's.
Get an education, you bigoted rube. Start with standard English, focusing on apostrophes and capitalization.
Or stay just as you are, a deplorable, illiterate culture war casualty who deserves to be defeated, mocked, and replaced by better Americans.
An affirmative action hire working on Apple's spellcheck I'm sure.
Affirmative action hires always have stellar reputations and quality job performance.
We all know what you'd prefer. Shriveled white dick.
I lol'd.
Prof. V, I am sure that your analysis is correct. I have two objections to what Biden is doing here, one major, one minor.
The minor objection is to the multiplication of categories. We already have Black justices, and we already have women justices. Why isn't that enough "diversity"? Why do we need a Black+woman justice? What's next? A Left-handed+Black+woman justice? An LGBT+Black+woman justice? I'd be perfectly happy to see a qualified gay person appointed to the Supreme Court even if he was a white male.
My major objection is to the announcement, in advance, that the President will only consider Black women for this seat. I agree that it's not illegal, but it is unseemly. Why not say, I'm going to appoint the best person to the Court, and then pick a Black woman? Instead, Biden's announcement sends the message that Black women aren't really competitive, but I'm going to appoint one anyway, because race and gender are what really count to me. (And yes I know that Reagan said in advance he'd appoint a woman to the Supreme Court. I think that was a mistake. On the other hand, Reagan restored the US economy and won the Cold War, so I think his error regarding the Supreme Court nomination can be excused. If Biden accomplishes anything comparable, I'll excuse his error in announcing that he would only consider Black women for this appointment.)
"the multiplication of categories"
Because lots of categories faced unique government backed oppression for most of our nation's history? If you were a black man you faced oppression, but if you were a black woman you faced that oppression *plus* sexism. If you were a black gay woman you faced the former two oppressions *plus* anti-gay oppression.
It's almost incredible that folks don't get this. Maybe it's because not enough 'critical studies' are taught in our schools....
What are you personally sacrificing for gay black women?
Anything?
I'm not sacrificing my intelligence, which you seem to be doing in the name of your tribalism.
So you're personally sacrificing nothing to repair for all this oppression.
Neat trick. Like those millionaires who demand taxes get raised so others can pay more.
Eric,
Your comment reminds me of a baseball anouncer who describes an incoming pitcher as the "best, left-handed, Jewish pitcher since Sandy Koufax.
Reagan was a backward, superstitious, tone-deaf, old White guy who appeased bigots. No wonder Eric VonSalzen thinks he was just dreamy.
I think this post is incorrect. If a Republican were to say they were only going to consider a white male for a certain high-level position, that would rightfully be condemned.
Why would it be that we should discriminate in everyday life, but we don't apply that principle to powerful government officials?
That Biden has openly declared that he is going to engage in racial discrimination in making his own pick is very bad, as it suggests that the country is some sort of racial spoils system. This reminds me of the recent bill to forgive loans only for "farmers of color." Once you start creating a racial spoils system at the top based on skin color, the cancer will inevitably spread. There is also the deeply disturbing decision by the FDA to provide guidance saying that scarce treatment for COVID-19 should be rationed based, in part, on race and ethnicity based on crude stereotypes. Some state health departments have implemented similar policies.
The idea that we should tolerate racism in high level appointments is an idea that has been embraced by the left. But it is a bad idea and should be condemned. The cancer will not remain. Furthermore, the idea that it is OK to be discriminated against with respect to elite job opportunities (high level government positions) doesn't make a lot of sense. If a board of directors said they were discriminating against blacks, whites, asians, etc, when choosing their next CEO, we would find that problematic and illegal. Under what principle should a President have the power to discriminate based on race, but private companies should not?
Justice Roberts said it well:
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”
Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
Can we end this stupid (and repeated multiple times in this thread) analogy: 'if someone nominated someone because they were a white male....!!!!'
White males were not discriminated against during most of our history. White males are not underrepresented in our judiciary. The contexts are NOT THE SAME.
It's literally like your saying 'if we outlaw killing people for killing others for their wallet how can we sanction killing people who kill others for their wallet!?!?'
I disagree. The FDA has pushed guidance to consider race and ethnicity as a "risk factor" in considering whether to provide scarce drugs to treat COVID-19. The American Rescue Plan Act included directives to provide 120% loan relief only to people of color. That white males were not discriminated against in earlier time does not mean it is not a popular time now.
Discriminating against white males based on stereotype is part of what Democrats believe in nowadays, if you judge them based on the laws they pass.
How far will they take this idea? Who knows.
I consider myself liberal on many issues. But I am definitely not voting for the Democrats until they learn to prioritize economics over identity. I am not interested in the racial spoils system that Democrats want to create.
I asked about Biden's nomination and you went on about the FDA and American Rescue Plan.
When all you've got is a hammer, everything is a nail, and you're intent on hammering.
"White males were not discriminated against during most of our history."
You specifically said that white males were not discriminated against historically. And I provided two examples where Democrats attempt to discriminate against them now.
And every time a Presidents promises to nominate X, they are discriminating against everyone who is not X.
Biden is not only discriminating against white males when he says he will on consider black females for his next pick, he is also discriminating against black males, asian females, asian males, Hispanic females, Hispanic males, etc.
"You specifically said that white males were not discriminated against historically. And I provided two examples where Democrats attempt to discriminate against them now."
Uh, that's not contradictory. Maybe do a re-read?
"And every time a Presidents promises to nominate X, they are discriminating against everyone who is not X"
Even when they are promising to nominate a group X that has been shut out for all history?
So you think the United Negro College Fund is discriminating when, in 1950, they only raised money for scholarships for black students?
I never said anything about you being contradictory. You were criticizing my response as not being on point. And I demonstrated why it was on point.
"So you think the United Negro College Fund is discriminating when, in 1950, they only raised money for scholarships for black students?"
Of course they were. That you happen to think discrimination is justified doesn't mean it isn't discrimination.
I would be interested in a study of the relative privilege of those who are most likely to receive such scholarships.
" I consider myself liberal on many issues. "
One more thing you are wrong about.
Stick with the bigoted, obsolete Republicans and conservatives. It is a natural fit for you.
"White males are not underrepresented in our judiciary. "
But Asian American are. What is wrong with finally having an Asian on the Court. Give me ONE good reason why it is not their turn.
The percentage of black females is higher?
You didn't answer the question at all.
Where is the Asian, M or F or binary.
Where?
Where are left handed Inuits for that matter?
I mean, black females are 7% of the population, but never represented on the Court. Asian-Americans total are a lower percent.
That's an, urm, objective reason why they should be first.
I await your answer!
Regarding your assumption that "white males" are unrepresented on the judiciary, I would note that when another white male is nominated to the judiciary, I don't believe they necessarily "represent" me.
The racial "representation" argument is toxic, as it implies that only people who are of the same race can "represent" a person.
It's more than that. Justices and judges do not "represent" anyone, whether of their own race or not. That's for Senators and Congressmen. The only thing a judge should "represent" is fidelity to the Constitution and the law.
Your demand for an answer is that of a brainless partisan.
I asked you a question. YOU had no answer.
Where is the Asian? Where?
Where is the Hispanic male?
There are more of those than black females.
You're back on mute
Uh, QA answered your question. Let's go to the tape.
DN: What is wrong with finally having an Asian on the Court. Give me ONE good reason why it is not their turn!
QA: Black females are 7% of the population.... Asian-Americans total are a lower percent.
DN: I asked you a question. YOU had no answer.
Sorry Don, I'm afraid you've been checked and mated. (I always thought it was strange that chess is essentially a mating ritual. Don and Queenie sitting in a tree...)
Not to mention this priceless self own (although I am now going to mention it):
DN: Your demand for an answer is that of a brainless partisan. I asked you a question.
That's what the chess world calls a blunder.
I mean, yeah, we should get an Asian on the Court.
But your argument is akin to 'how can you care about injustice to black people when injustice to Asians also exists?'
Or to deracialize it, 'how can you care about the death penalty when there are women being stoned in the Middle East?'
Insisting on a battle of the injustices is a dumb game...unless you want to ignore injustice.
S_O,
Don't stoop to such a shallow non-argument.
Once you're parceling out goodies to ever more narrow slices, then "what about my slice/" is an obvious comeback.
I know why Old White Joe wants a black woman. They are is most loyal voting group.
I've got it.
I learned about patronage politics from Richard J. Daley.
The racial justice arguments are just cosmetics.
Nobody expects a conservative to understand the moral or historical points here. I mean, it might happen occasionally, but it is folly to expect it.
Supreme Court seats aren't goodies. And they're not being parceled out.
And, again, this isn't patronage. Look at who is fine with/likes this pick. It's a lot more than payback to black women.
Nominating a black woman to the SCOTUS bench has as much to do with remedying injustice to black people as the Chancellor of German saying Mazel Tov has to do with remedying the Holocaust. It's empty symbolism.
All of the likely nominees went to the most elite schools and had comfortable (though not wealthy) upbringings. (Look up their names on Wikipedia for full biographies, if I put in links, I will be in moderation. )
That's what's pernicious here. Individuals experience injustice, not races. Black people experienced severe oppression in American history. The notion that we can compensate for that by giving out perks to anyone of that race -- even someone who had a cushy childhood and elite education -- makes a mockery of the notion of "justice."
Let me amend this. One person being pushed by Congressman Clyburn is a district judge from South Carolina named J. Michelle Childs. Here biography is here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Michelle_Childs
She lost her father, a police officer, as a teen. Went to state school in Florida and law school at University of South Carolina. Then a state court judge before being appointed to the federal (district court) bench.
She certainly breaks the mold in terms of coming from a state school, and having been a state court judge, and a trial judge. All are the type of diversity that would be positive in a SCOTUS nominee. She seems like a long shot, but it is reported that Clyburn is pushing her.
Nico, here are good reasons. First, any program of amelioration based on race is strong medicine, guaranteed to do harm along with whatever good it accomplishes. Given that, such programs ought to be reserved for cases which have two characteristics:
1. Historically, the racial group in question must have suffered notably worse treatment than other would-be claimants. Worse treatment can be defined in terms of both practices and duration.
2. There must be plain evidence that damage done historically to any such racial group continues to deliver lasting disadvantages to group members now.
As Bernstein noted in a recent sensible post, two groups get over that bar, and only two. Black Americans and Native Americans. No other racial group in America suffered chattel slavery as a norm, nor for anything like the centuries-long affliction visited upon Blacks. No other racial group in America suffered actual attempts to inflict genocide, which were government policy at times with regard to Native Americans. Both groups easily qualify with regard to continuing disadvantages today.
Nothing remotely like that applies to Asian Americans. Even internment of Japanese Americans during WW II—outrageous as it was—is small potatoes by comparison.
Bottom line: this is a wholly political issue. The president can do what he wants in judicial selection, subject to Senate approval, and politics of the day. If he could get away with it, he could nominate his horse, ala Caligula. (Course, then the SCOTUS cafeteria would have to start serving hay and oats.)
The problem is that the distinctions drawn by Prof. Volokh are highly likely to be lost on most of the public. Most people's takeaway will be that even the most extreme form of affirmative action -- flat-out ruling out whole races and genders -- is ok; that, in Soviet terms, this is the new "ustanovka" (general directive from above stating the official party line on a topic). And I'm afraid the Biden administration will be ok with that result.
questioner7, fairly obviously, any particular pick for a single job will flat-out rule out the races and genders of those not selected. You got any examples of Biden administration policies to rule out particular races and genders as a class?
The only problem I see with Biden's announcement is the optics of it. He can appoint whoever he wants. His prior announcement that he would only consider black women will forever give his pick the stigma of being an affirmative action hire. It isn't fair to the eventual nominee.
It's been said before, it'll be said again. I think it's a bad idea. I also think it's sending the opposite message of what the Democrats want to send. If I say "I'm going to consider the best qualified candidates" and end up choosing a black woman, I'm saying that a black woman was the best candidate. If I say "I'm only going to consider a black woman" and end up choosing a black woman, I'm saying that a black woman wouldn't cut it out of the best possible candidates and has to be considered separately to be worthy. It's pandering and insulting. But it's pandering and insulting that he's perfectly free to do, and voters can hold him accountable for it in whatever way they see fit.