The Volokh Conspiracy
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Netflix's "Better Than Us": Great Show, Lousy Subtitle Translation
My wife and I have been much enjoying Netflix's Better Than Us, a Russian import about near-future robots. (We've watched the first nine episodes, which is to say a bit more than half of the first season.) The topic has been covered before, of course, but it's all in the execution, and the execution here generally seems very good. The production quality is up to Western standard, it seems to me, as are the plot and the characterization.
The one problem that I've noticed is in the subtitles, which are often pretty poor translations of the original. They aren't laughable, to be sure, but they're often just not quite right. Naturally, I'm not insisting on literal translations; the point of the translation is to capture the sense and the tone of the dialogue, not to provide precise word-for-word identity. And of course there are judgment calls: The Russian title of the series, for instance, is literally "Better Than People," but "Better Than Us" is a plausible English rendering.
But some of the subtitle translations just change the meaning, and not for the better. In one episode, for instance, the Russian word for "bitter" is translated as "gross," when later on one of the plot elements turns precisely on the thing being bitter. And I see that every several minutes, in each episodes. It may well be that non-Russian-speakers just won't notice, but I do think something is lost. And Russian is not exactly an exotic language; how hard is it for Netflix to find a decent translator?
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Such is the result when non-near native speakers rely on something like Google Translate or Babble.
My wife teaches French, Spanish, and Chinese, and she can always tell when a student tries to take a shortcut.
I doubt that it's Google Translate; I'd expect the results of that to be worse than the subtitles they now have -- but sometimes better, since Google Translate correctly translates "горкое" (the word in the example I gave) as "bitter" rather than "gross." No, this is human error all the way down, I think.
Maybe the person translating it hates bitter foods as a form of unconscious anti-bitter bias?
Perhaps there's a pervasive, systemic bias at Netflix. Their executives may insist on sweet and salty snacks only and expect their employees to follow.
Sounds like you've found the reverend's day job, and his unconscious bias against bitter clingers has betrayed him.
I do not deny it is human error. However, Google is not off the hook. Once, in a restaurant in China, the menu clearly stated that "cow oil meal pack" was served with dinner.
Turns out "cow oil" was changed by a human from "yellow oil", but is in fact, butter. "Meal pack" is a character by character translation - in this context it is "bread".
This happens when you translate character by character and have humans try to fix the results.
That restaurant would have done better if it had used Goggle, they would have translated huángyóu as butter.
Translation is as much of an art as it is a science.
Our firm once sued a former client based in Germany for fees. In order to serve the Summons and Complaint in Germany under the Hague Convention, the German authorities requried a translation of the documents into German.
My boss wanted to save money, so he said, put the docs through Google translate.
We sent that on, and got back a letter saying, essentially, get back to us when you have a real translation.
That's scary, because I've seen Google translate invert the sense of a sentence.
Another failure mode: I gave Google translate some formally written early modern Turkish. Early modern Turkish was still loaded up with Arabic borrowings, and in formal writing a sentence is a long string of participles and clauses chained together until it emerges from the Black Sea with its verb in its mouth. Google's AI just gave up. It reached some point in the sentence and had had enough and ignored the rest.
If you want some English text loaded with unnecessary borrowings, look at a doctor's notes.
John,
Did you come up with that metaphor? Very very funny.
If you need a break for "something completely different" ... I'm binging on the "Ash vs. The Evil Dead" series on Netflix. One of Sam Raimi's lesser known gems.
Damn, I didn't know that it was on Netflix. Thanks for the info.
I've been watching some YouTube channels by foreigners speaking English and come to a new appreciation for multi-languahe speakers. I speak and read just enough Spanish, French, and Japanese to travel; I've learned to to never ask directions, because I won't understand "Turn left at the barbershop and go past the post office". Instead, I point in the direction I think I should take and ask if it is in that direction. The basic response tells me if it is the right direction and how far down the road it is, and even if it is too complicated an answer for a simple finger pointing and yes/no.
Some of the translation defects are good reminders of how subtly languages differ. One episode used "overview" in place of "overlook" -- some supervisor had not done a good job of reviewing plans.
I had an interesting encounter in Tokyo once. A friend had told me to get off at a certain subway station, and as he got off earlier, held up three fingers, which I took to mean three more stations. Turned out to me the station four stops away with "three" in its name. I got off and realized it was the wrong station after getting too far away to find my way back to that station, Stopped on a copy shop (this was a long time ago) and waited in line to ask the cashier where such-and-so was. While waiting, a well-dressed middle age man asked me in Japanese if I were French or American; I said American, and he asked in flawless English what I was doing in Tokyo, not accusatively, just as a friendly hello to a tourist. I explained my situation, and he gave me clear directions. I was flabbergasted and thanked him with some poor English like "you speak good English". Later thinking about it, the only flaw I could think of was he had said "in about a quarter of an hour, you'll come up on some tall buildings". I think most native English speakers would have said "about 15 minutes", but that's too fine a quibble to mark him down at all. Yet languages are full of such pitfalls.
Funny -- that reminds me of a Russian twist related to time. "In five minutes" (or, literally, "across five minutes") means in five minutes. "Minutes in five" means in about five minutes, more or less. (Five minutes is just an example; it works for time measurement more broadly.)
Languages fascinate me more than history, but unfortunately take a lot more effort to learn the fun little things like that. Even google translate of a foreign history book or article is useful, but there can be no such assistant for languages.
Sounds like he learned English from and Englander. They use quarter of an hour much more often that us Americans.
No English accent. Some boring American accent such that I didn't perceive any accent.
And the difference between "15 minutes" and "quarter of an hour" is pretty slim. I've often wondered if I would have noticed that if I had not seen he was Japanese, such as in a phone conversation. I mainly remember my crappy English thank you 🙂
My ex was from Moscow (Balashikha 8 to be precise) and it was a huge pet peeve to her when she saw things in Russian with an English subtitle and the translation wasn't even close to what the speaker was saying sometimes to the extent the translation would completely change the meaning. She said it was very cognitively dissonant to read and hear two completely different things.
One of the things mad scientists do to torture subjects is to make them read the word "green" in red print. The brain does not like to do it and there is a measurable increase in delay or error rate.
Sure, if you're a native English speaker, and even then, some people are good at it, and you can train yourself to do it.
Like distinguishing the "l" sound from the "r" sound is much more difficult for Asian language which treat them as basically the same phoneme. If the color green in your native language is, for instance, 녹색, then it's not going to affect you much to read "green" in red paint, or green paint, or purple paint.
The production quality is up to Western standard, it seems to me, as are the plot and the characterization.
Given the crap coming out of the U.S. entertainment industries these days I'm not sure that's a compliment.
Lewis' chronological snobbery works both ways....
I think this is common for any person who is multi-lingual. If you have a good enough understanding of the second language to identify the quirks of translating your native language into it, and to recognize when your native language has been poorly translated.
What's worse is when someone with passing understanding (not native, but can hold a conversation with little trouble) of the second language is trying to understand the translation and needs 3rd party input to translate the translation, either into different terms, or (poorly) back into their native language by someone who is only fluent at the second language (being their native language) who is learning the original language...
Long story, short: Watching Korean shows with English subtitles, or English shows with Korean subtitles, with my Korean girlfriend is sometimes difficult. "What do you mean you don't know why that character used that phrase which is almost never used? You don't know English that well?" No, neither does anyone who speaks English.
And then there was the Chinese girl I knew who showed me her English Language slang book.
One phrase was "to kick the bucket". The example of use was:
First speaker: "I haven't seen my friend Joe for a few weeks."
Second speaker: "Didn't you know he kicked the bucket last Thursday?"
Did you have to answer the question "why does 'he kicked the bucket' mean that?"
I don't know. Hey, Google... ???
Interestingly, from the speaker of a language that routinely drops the subject altogether, one of the most common complaints I fielded dealt with sentences like "John ate an apple. His friend talked to him later." Who is him? His friend? Why not just say John?
In Korean that would be translated "John apple ate. Later, friend talk." How's that LESS confusing?!
Thank you, Professor, for this allegory regarding the Constitution and Supreme Court opinions.
So on the translations, we should trust, but verify?
You can get a lot of Netflix shows that are both dubbed in English, and showing English subtitles. Curiously, the words are not the same! Sometimes the subtitle has a distinctly different meaning from what is dubbed.
When travelling in Europe I'm often amazed at how bad the English is on translations of signs at museums or exhibits. You'd think it wouldn't be hard to find someone with near native level in English to do better translations (but apparently you'd be wrong). I've come to the conclusion that there isn't really that much demand for good translations so you don't get great translators. I mean, how many people are going to turn off the Netflix show or leave the museum because the translation isn't very good?
Are the mandatory French signs in Quebec ever that bad? Can the language police demand good French?
Did you ever think it might be intentional?
One nice thing about Netflix's Better Than Us is that it does not keep interrupting the story with LGBTQ messaging and interracial sex scenes. Apparently Russia has not yet been infected with this thinking yet.
Miscegenation is very scary indeed.
There are porn sites for that, if that is what turns you on.
Why did you include the descriptor "interracial?"
Other than your reprehensible nature as a racist, gay-bashing, poorly educated, obsolete right-winger, I mean.
Because Netflix shows commonly have a lot of gratuitous interracial sex scenes. The only ways to escape it is to turn off Netflix, watch old movies, or watch shows produced in Russia or Eastern Europe.
Has anyone else noticed this problem that bothers Roger S?
Just watch Netflix. It is obvious.
Netflix seems mostly an ocean of mediocre (or less than mediocre) content for a relatively undiscerning audience. Why invest in quality when the audience will not notice or care and the financial statements are unlikely to be affected?
If you want bouillabaisse, or filet mignon, or even a real rib, walking into McDonald's seems a poor choice.
Netflix seems fine for whiling away a few hours, and an occasional gem may be found, but mostly it seems to focus on quantity rather than on quality.
If you want a reliable, quick, inexpensive meal -- particularly if you are in unfamiliar territory -- McDonald's can be wonderful.
Rev, you've made many strident and controversial comments here through the years, but IMO this is the most outrageously wrong comment you have ever made.
Which comment bothers you --
'Netflix is downscale content'
or
'a McDonald's hamburger-fries-apple pie is quick, reliable, and inexpensive, and therefore attractive if you become hungry while driving between Pig's Knuckle and Yahooville, a few miles due south of the precise middle of nowhere, where your other choices are Clem's Kountry Kitchen/Live Bait, Clem's Mom's Country-Fried 100% Meat Jerky, and the New Discount Trading Post, Gas, Diner And Beer Distributer'?
Thank you.
(If you would choose Clem's, Clem's Mom's, or the Distributer, I would welcome your reasoning.)
The distributor will have beer; McDonald's won't.