The Volokh Conspiracy
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Conservative and Libertarian Law Students At Yale Law School Should Transfer Out En Masse
Punish YLS where it hurts: by denying them credit for coveted clerkships.
Yale Law School is a failed academic institution. Dean Heather Gerken should have resigned, Associate Dean Ellen Cosgrove should be on administrative leave, and Diversity Director Yaseen Eldik should be unemployed. Alas, Gerken is clinging to the remaining months of her tenure, and she gently chastised Cosgrove and Edik for not striking the "appropriate balance." And Gerken issued a not-too-veiled threat to revise the "norms surrounding secretly recorded conversations and the sharing of private correspondence without permission." In other words, "We would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meddling FedSoc kids." (I hope Scooby Doo is not triggering).
At this point, there is only one way to make YLS suffer: deny it the prestige it so desperately seeks. Specifically, conservative and libertarian 1Ls and 2Ls should transfer out en masse to ensure that other schools can take credit for their appellate and SCOTUS clerkships. Good luck placing clerks with only three of the nine Justices and half the federal judiciary. As a plus, students who transfer out may actually learn something about the law--a useful skill for any clerkship.
I had the honor of meeting many of the embattled YLS students at the Federalist Society Convention. They are under siege on a daily basis. They should shrug, and get out of Dodge. I'm sure Dean Cole at Notre Dame would welcome the entire YLS FedSoc chapter. Justice Thomas could even drive his RV on a refugee mission from New Haven to South Bend.
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I hope the fledgling bigots and disaffected culture war losers of the Yale Federalist Society follow Prof. Blackman to the halls of South Texas College of Law Houston.
Let's see who sustains a blow to prestige -- Yale, or the superstitious gay-bashers and obsolete clingers.
If old-timey bigots are uncomfortable at Yale, that school must be doing something correctly.
How many American law schools are ranked lower than South Texas? As I recall, it might be four (counting some relatively new schools in Puerto Rico).
Carry on, clingers . . . so far and so long as better Americans permit, that is.
All Yale grads are scum, totally toxic to this country. Even the smartest is too stupid to see the plagiarism of the Medieval catechism by the common law. He is an idiot. Yale makes people dumbasses.
The Non-Profit Office of the IRS should de-exempt this treason indoctrination camp. All government funds, grants, and subsidies should be stopped. It should lose its accreditation. Then it should be shut down by force. All its assets should be seized in civil forfeiture.
I like when people who misspell their own name call other people “stupid.”
Including Justices Alito, Kavanaugh, and Thomas?
Did you go to Yale?
Could Blackman get a job at a better law school than one of the WORST law schools?
I dunno.
Will the University of Austin have a law school?
At current rates of attrition, it will not have a president, a board of trustees, or a board of advisors.
But it will have Bari Weiss and, likely, a few other professional misfits.
lol at a guy from the South Texas College of Separating Gullible People With Low LSATs from Their Money calling someplace else a "failed academic institution"
UVA, another treason indoctrination camp turning lawyer dumbasses. This is the most toxic occupation, 10 times more toxic than organized crime. Your profession is a worthless, rent seeking, garbage occupation. Its hierarchy should be decapitated.
Says the unknown commenter reduced to appealing to authority on someone else's blog under a pseudonym.
I am often shocked by how stupid your posts can be
Nothing like a lecture on academic prestige from a dude who teaches at a law school so bad it got sued for trying to steal the name of a better (and still distinctly mediocre) law school.
Wow. So many leftist on this thread approve of the authoritarian tactics used by the Yale admin. Color me shocked.
You may have missed the vast middle between agreeing with Blackman's impotent histrionics and endorsing everything Yale is doing.
Impotent?
Josh Blackman?
The national thought leader?
The shaper and mover of Supreme Court issues?
The future of conservative legal academia (chosen by Eugene Volokh)?
The man who (believes he will) reverse the tide of the culture war, delivering victory to FedSoc conservatives who hate modern America?
The man on a Mission From God against the forces of reason, modernity, science, progress, liberty, education, and inclusiveness?
"You may have missed the vast middle between agreeing with Blackman's impotent histrionics and endorsing everything Yale is doing."
I'm assuming that if people don't find anything to comment on other than Blackman's framing, that they agree with Yale. As any right-thinking person knows, silence is complicity. Violence, even.
So you're not being serious, just trolling.
Heh. Frankly, I really don't care what goes on at Yale or Harvard. The Fed Soc elites run the judicial system, yet they whine all the time about how unfair is the world that they run. And Blackman is among the worst. Who cares where the elite goes with their result oriented partisan striving?
Can't we just let the current 3L and FedSoc officers worry in peace about whether they'll soon have to quit originalism without further bothering them with cries to quit school too?
Look; I give Josh as hard a time as anyone (and, in my biased opinion; for good reasons). But this is a non-stupid OP. What *can* disaffected YLS student do, to show their displeasure? A mass exodus would be a blow to Yale's reputation.
The problems are, of course: Any harm to the reputation would be very transitory. And, the real and immediate harm would be to these students' legal careers. Yale is, perpetually, one of the very very best (in terms of reputation, getting clerkships, etc) law schools in the country, if not in the English-speaking world. Some departing students will be able to find slots at Harvard or Stanford. Their harms is minimal, if any. But most of these students, I suspect, would end up at MUCH less prestigious law schools. And this will affect their job and career prospects forever.
That's a big ask. I'd totally respect any student that leaves one law school in protest of anything--it's a major commitment to transfer. But I'd be shocked if anything like this (ie, more than a small handful of students departing) actually happened.
In other words this was, in fact, a distinctly stupid OP.
Nah. We grade on a curve here. And for a Josh OP, it was non-crazy. Sure; he failed to point out the blinding obvious downside(s) to doing an actual transfer. But his gravamen was not bat-shit crazy, which put this in the upper 10% of Josh posts. Cut the guy some slack. 🙂
Any diminution to Yale's reputation among clingers would be offset by the improved estimation of those who figure any school at which the bigoted and backward become disaffected must be a fine institution.
The fans of a White, male, right-wing blog may overestimate America's concern for the feelings of our next generation of superstitious gay-bashers, race-targeting vote suppressors, statist womb management advocates, virus-flouting clingers, and fans of Alex Jones, Fox News, Chick-fil-A, Stormfront, and country music.
You're too blinded by your own bigotry to see that the "bigoted and backward" at YLS make up the school's administration. Idiot.
It's true that some of them would take a serious hit. But if the atmosphere at Yale continues getting worse, they may take the hit in a different way, anyway. Manufactured ethics complaints reported to the bar, for instance, as was threatened in that one case. Or CRT becoming a must pass class, and, oops, you flunk it if you're a conservative.
Asking others to make big choices based on your analysis of their speculative future oppression is quite a look.
It's always a balancing act when you're in a declining situation. Hang around to avoid the one time hit of leaving, and you have to accept the gradual and growing drain from staying around; At what point do you pull the trigger and leave? In general, the sooner the better, IF the decline is actually going to continue.
And when the decline can strip you of resources needed to leave... Likely easier to leave Yale before they start seriously lowering the GPAs of anybody who isn't left wing, because it's easier to transfer to a good school if your GPA doesn't suck.
And you know they're going to do that, if they aren't already.
Likely easier to leave Yale before they start seriously lowering the GPAs of anybody who isn't left wing, because it's easier to transfer to a good school if your GPA doesn't suck.
And you know they're going to do that, if they aren't already.
Get help, Brett. Really, your paranoia about "the left" is getting worse.
You know zip about YLS and what goes on there other than what gets yelled about on the Internet, mostly here.
Look, just because they're not out to get YOU doesn't mean *I'm* paranoid.
Bernard, it isn't paranoia when it's been documented for year in other institutions. Since before our time, there have been classes with various professors where you are graded based on how much you agree with their position.
When some colleges have had officials explicitly say that voting Republican is a hate crime, the leap to deliberately failing people for their political views is more of a hop.
Ben,
Since before our time, there have been classes with various professors where you are graded based on how much you agree with their position.
There have always been some of those, of all persuasions.
What Brett is claiming is that there is, or soon will be, a systematic policy by liberal professors at YLS to lower the grades of conservative students.
I call bullshit. Brett is constantly going on about "the left" and all its nefarious conspiracies and plots. He sounds like the Birchers used to. If a Democrat somewhere gets a parking ticket it just shows that the left has no respect for the law, etc.
It's a big load of crap. I do sometimes think he is actually ill, because unlike some commenters here, he has the brains to know better.
Yale faculty agree it has no real political diversity
Has it ever occurred to you the reason for that is the people who devote themselves to becoming experts actually have good ideas and that conservative ideas are really dumb and that's not why they're not held by experts?
*why they're not.
Professors moved left since 1990s, rest of country did not
Neither of those have anything to do with what you're speculating.
Unless, of course, you think having a political ideology means you can't do your job professionally anymore.
Which you really do seem to think about liberals. But which more makes me worry about you.
Actually, no, these accounts confirm that non-liberal students are already subject to heavy pressure, and there's very little ideological diversity in the faculty.
The big shift happened in elite New England schools, after 2000. They went from being a bit more left-wing than academia as a whole to being hugely more left-wing.
That's the sort of change of a degree and speed that can't happen without a huge level of political discrimination in hiring and retention. Basically, around 2000 these institutions simply stopped hiring anybody who wasn't left wing, and at this point are approaching being ideological monocultures, as the remaining holdouts age out.
So, you're arguing they'll politically discriminate against right-wing faculty, but not the more powerless students?
It is to laugh.
Faculty party affiliation does not mean they're teaching with an ideological litmus test. It certainly doesn't mean your parade of institutionalized horribles is going to come to pass.
And then you go on to your same conspiracy theory you always have, appealing to incredulity yet again.
Brett has always believed that people are motivated and controlled by their political ideologies. Every decision, word, and deed is guided solely by political ideology. And although it’s likely almost all entirely projection, one might conclude Brett has never met another human being in his entire life, or he’s just a really shitty person.
It's projection all the way down.
ideology in academia and elsewhere
(Note: This data precedes academia's leftward shift since 2000!)
He really knows zip about YLS; there are no GPAs to lower there! It's like he picked the stupidest possible conspiracy theory he could.
" It's always a balancing act when you're in a declining situation. Hang around to avoid the one time hit of leaving, and you have to accept the gradual and growing drain from staying around; At what point do you pull the trigger and leave? In general, the sooner the better, IF the decline is actually going to continue. "
You have violated my copyright with respect to the lyrics of The Ballad Of Orin Kerr.
Umm, you know that they don't have GPAs or class rank at Yale Law School, right?
I thought Yale didn't have GPAs (or class ranking).
Transcripts for Yale College students enrolled in fall 2004 and subsequent terms include the cumulative GPA.
The Graduate School of Arts and Sciences does not calculate GPA.
Yale does not calculate Class rank or standing."
A number of folks have asked you, Brett, if you know that Yale Law doesn't use GPA. I appreciate the links you provided, but neither mention Yale Law, so they don't really answer the question. Does Yale Law use GPA, to your knowledge?
Actually, if they do not use a GPA, it is worse for students out of step with the faculty, because all that is left are the letters of reference. And most potential employers are excellent at reading what is not there in a letter.
"A mass exodus would be a blow to Yale's reputation."
Maybe on this blog. In reality, no. And I'm no fan of Yale folks nor what they think of themselves, but come on. Be realistic. I know that's hard here for many folks.
It. Is. Time.
For a general strike!
Workers, rise up; I will organize from here.
Basically the same energy as this post.
Do both Yale and Notre Dame each have equally good trap houses convenient to their respective campuses?
What about proximity to the nearest Popeye’s chicken store? Yale had one within spitting distance, what about Notre Dame?
Attendance decisions aren't always made merely on the academic quality of the school, but also on amenities like quality housing and fine dining.
They can't transfer and stay in New Haven. Their access to great pizza will suffer, no matter where they go.
There's a branch of Pepe's in Yonkers. It seems to be as good as the original.
Only if you happen to think that New Haven apizza is great.
I am reminded of this book:
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0966994000/reasonmagazinea-20/
I read it a while ago, but, as far as I remember, there the hostile environment was created by leftist students. Here, it's the administration, which is a lot more scary.
You start out with leftist students, a generation later they ARE the administration.
Leftist is such a moronic word. I don't see anyone calling people "rightists"
Yale bureaucrats are insane. But Josh's take is best summarized by this brilliant quote from Animal House "Oh, no. No, in this case, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
HA!
Exactly.
Maybe those poor oppressed conservative students should worry more about things like torts and contracts and whatever else they are supposed to be learning, and less about how to make a name for themselves in RW circles.
Remember how Michael Jordan made buckets of cash to play basketball but received considerably more income from endorsements and the sort? There’s a similar relationship for conservative Yale* law grads. Yeah, you make a lot of money at work, but the Rightwing Welfare Circuit is far more lucrative.
*Plays out the same for graduates of LibertyU and the like.
Trying to link conservative and libertarian ... typical goofball stuff.
People will quit Yale when other people stop preferentially hiring from Yale. When there's a constitutional amendment banning Yale graduates from being federal judges.
Under siege! On a daily basis, no less! Oh, Heathcliff…!
I like how conservative Yale Law students are “under siege” on a daily basis but it’s also basically a foregone conclusion that these students are going to get the most prestigious clerkships with the country’s most powerful judges setting them up for future dominance in law and politics for the rest of their career.
Well you know they're conservatives because they are perpetual victims.
"Well you know they're conservatives because they are perpetual victims."
And the left has their hierarchy of victimhood.
I think everybody's a victim these days, except for me and you.
I get this is a meme on the right, but I can tell you that this is not a thing on the left.
In fact there is a whole leftist discipline - intersectionality - explicitly about how that whole idea is bunk.
Ok, ok. I'm sorry. You are also not a victim. 🙂
Right back atcha 😛
I actually think if one were uncharitable, one could summarize intersectionality as 'we are all victims each in our own unique ways'
Except for...well, the you-know-whos.
Nope, even us straight white guys.
Even...Boomers.
That's all basically true, except that the current suit is about members of the administration interfering with certain students' attempt to secure one of those prestigious clerkships. Now. it's not clear that the pseudonymous plaintiffs are "conservatives", but that doesn't really matter - ideologues generally will treat apostates worse than simple non-believers (e.g. Liz Cheney)
YLS has a serious problem. And like any serious problem, there's always a solution that is simple, elegant, and wrong. We can thank Prof. Blackman for demonstrating this.
Stay "under siege" for three years before enjoying a cushy life as a member of the ruling class. Or transfer on down here to the South Texas College of Law & HVAC Repair, where we won't make you feel uncomfortable in the slightest, but you'll spend the rest of your life under siege from your student loan creditors. Your choice, Yalies.
"it’s also basically a foregone conclusion that these students are going to get the most prestigious clerkships "
Given that the DEI folks are consistently flaunting their power to ruin the students' careers before they start, is that a foregone conclusion? That's sort of the issue, isn't it?
There's some hyperbole there, but not much! There is sufficient paucity of conservative law students, that those who stand out/are at standout institutions have a great chance to become adoptees of The Federalist Society and be assured a pretty robust judicial career.
Two reported instances this year where the same two people did the "nice potential career you've got here, be a shame if something happened to it" schtick. Sure looks like a habit of theirs.
When you're out in the world like us and see how things work we recognize the treat as pretty weak. But remember when we were nearing graduation and there was the worry about starting a career? It's putting a load on students that shouldn't be there.
In addition, wasn't the second case one in which they were trying to threaten witnesses to change their testimony in a civil suit? Isn't that witness tampering?
Anecdotes do not make a habit. You need a lot more than 2 data points to show a pattern.
Not that Yale shouldn't tighten up their policies to make sure this can't happen so easily, but we needn't assume some institutional plot here.
I don't know much about the witness tampering practice, but I suspect that trying to threaten is not enough, especially for an institution versus an individual.
Dunno though - maybe it should be a charge! I'm not so ideological I think bad diversity offices and officers are above the law when they act out.
"Looks like"
And regardless of the actual frequency, the actual frequency should be zero. It's borderline fraudulent to charge somebody a metric shit ton of money for a degree, then at the end threaten to make that degree worthless if they don't do what the school wants.
I'm an engineer, not a lawyer, but the thing with the two witnesses looks like plain vanilla tampering to me.
I'm enough of a (former) lawyer to know I have no idea about the witness tampering thing.
I'm not saying these anecdotes are good - I in fact advocate for policy changes to prevent further such incidents! I just don't think you can start making conclusions about the institution in yale, much less everywhere else in academia.
Gosh, of all the law schools and all the law students... two reported instances. Shocking I tell you!! SHOCKING!
Yes, a rigorous and comprehensive review of every single school and every single student found only two instances, enough to ignore!
Don't need the announcement in your name for it to be obvious that you are not a scientist. Or even science-adjacent.
That's a strawman argument, I never said it was a comprehensive review. There is space between "panic!" and "I've done a comprehensive review". What use is your scientific knowledge if you cannot reason?
Also the first paragraph reminded me of this SNL parody of Kieth Olbermann from 13 years ago.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rO5-owAQOEw
YLS students won't withdraw simply to make a point. What will make a difference is if conservative federal judges, including those on SCOTUS, stop hiring from YLS based on its oppressive intellectual environment.
What will make a difference is if conservative federal judges, including those on SCOTUS, stop hiring from YLS based on its oppressive intellectual environment.
So you want to punish conservative Yale students for what the administration does? That makes zero sense.
Zero logical sense, but grievance has little to do with logic.
"I've been aggrieved! Someone must pay! It doesn't matter who!"
It's funny because it reads like every conservative apology ever- "I'm sorry you were offended."
Ha.
Woah.
I mean, I actually had to pause for a second. Did one of the conspirators finally write the ultimate Josh Blackman parody?
Did the VC get hacked, and someone posted their own JB parody?
...nope.
Bonus points for this-
" As a plus, students who transfer out may actually learn something about the law--a useful skill for any clerkship."
What, do you think they would benefit from the excellent scholarship and learning available at the South Texas College of Law Houston? A school that had ... 0 federal clerskhips in the most recent reported year? And that consistently does not report data on a voluntary basis (which is unsurprising)?
Basically, it's Cooley South.
Has any of the other Volokh Conspirators issued a word about Prof. Blackman's contribution?
Quite the collection of cowards.
Partisan, polemical, hypocritical cowards.
Wow you are really off your rocker.
Well...he DOES have a point. It's true there are only Yale and South Texas for law school choices. Those kids are clearly stuck.
There is nothing wrong with being at a school where most students do not agree with you. The fact is that the 'Yale name' is too valuable in the legal world, even relative to 'peer schools,' for most students to pass up. Also, the law of first-year grades and lack of a curve makes it understandably attractive to students. Incidentally, Notre Dame, despite having a reputation for being "conservative," is more like 50/50 in terms of political attitudes. It is "conservative" relative to the typical law school, not relative to the country.
The publicity from this episode should be enough to remind the administration not to behave in this way. Anyway, this is not good advice for Yale students.
Agreed, but then again any student who followed this advice probably shouldn't have been admitted to begin with. "Hey, did you know that gullible isn't in the dictionary?"
Now, if one those FedSoc Yalies who wasn't a real standout made a huge deal about it, got some national press, and transferred to a decent school that hadn't been completely owned by the LIBS (Chicago, UVa, Duke, Vandy), then they might improve their overall chances of getting a clerkship, but that seems pretty weird.
... and still not great advice.
"There is nothing wrong with being at a school where most students do not agree with you."
No, absolutely there isn't, if they leave it at not agreeing with you.
Which they largely do, except in your head.
It's really easy to sit behind a computer and type out your rage at this unprecedented injustice, and I know that neither Professor Blackman nor the commentariat here are satisfied by the easy course. Indeed, they are all asking themselves, "What can I do? How can I help free these political prisoners?"
Go on a hunger strike! Send an email to YLS letting faculty and administration know that until they stop persecuting conservative law students, you will not take in any food. And if you should die, the blame will be on Yale. And it's important that you truly follow thru, else Yale and all the other Communist schools out there will know you're all just splutter.
So come on, you're not all just venting and wallowing in a self-perceived victimhood—we all know that you're about noble principles and living out the dreams of the Founding Fathers. This is about justice and the future of the republic. Good men and women need to act! So put down your forks and spoons until Yale capitulates. Sic semper tyrannis!
Is . . . is Blackman saying that conservatives need safe spaces?
I can kind of see the equivalence, if I squint and hit myself in the head with a hammer until I have brain damage.
Yeah, "threats from the administration to pre-ruin your career" is pretty equivalent to "proximity within 5 kilometers of Jordan Peterson or Ben Shapiro makes me feel unsafe". I suppose,
Are the posts in this thread from law-trained individuals??
The students should instead work to remove the tax exemption for Yale and get the bloated endowment appropriately taxed.
I thought wealth taxes were unconstitutional.
Are they? They might have to apportioned per Art. I, Section 9.
You can still tax the realized profits made on investments even if you can't tax the balance.
You can require them to spend money on specific items [free tuition, free health care for employees] or pay a tax. CJ Roberts approved.
Not sure you want to rock that boat, with churches chanting 'lets go Brandon' in their services.
No church has a 35+ billion endowment. Or anything close. Most can barely pay for utilities.
So you want a cutoff threshold for this nonprofit wealth tax?
The LDS church does.
Conservatives with Ivy law credentials have done so much these past few years to discredit and shame those credentials that normal people might just end up looking elsewhere anyway. Then y’all can have Yale all to yourselves. Silver linings!
" Conservative and Libertarian Law Students At Yale Law School Should Transfer Out En Masse "
To which "libertarians" does Prof. Blackman refer?
Libertarians For Government Gay-Bashing?
Libertarians For Statist Womb Management?
Libertarians For Authoritarian, Bigoted, Cruel Immigration Practices?
Libertarians For Abusive Policing?
Libertarians For Race-Targeting Voter Suppression?
Libertarians For Tariffs?
Libertarians For Torture?
Libertarians For Big-Government Micromanagement Of Ladyparts Clinics?
Libertarians For Government Control Of Facebook, Google, And Twitter?
Libertarians For Farm Subsidies?
Libertarians For Attacking The Wrong Country?
Libertarians For Government-Prescribed School Prayer?
Libertarians For More Government Killing (Death Penalty, Military)?
Libertarians For Government Funding Of Religious Schools?
Libertarians For Government Secrecy And Surveillance?
Libertarians For Trump?
Libertarians For White Nationalism?
Libertarians For A 'Papers, Please?' Society?
Libertarians For Wall-Building?
Libertarians For 'America First' Trade Barriers?
Libertarians For Massive Military Spending?
Libertarians For Corporate Welfare?
Libertarians For Pardoning War Criminals?
Libertarians For Fried Chicken Trap Houses?
Libertarians For Affirmative Action For Conservative Law Professors?
At least one thing is consistent: leftists show no sympathy unless they see a tactical advantage in putting on that show.