Nothing Says "Free to Be Me" Like Compulsory Pansexuality

"Is a lesbian transphobic if she does not want to have sex with trans women?"

A remarkable story from the BBC, revealing a phenomenon that strikes me as utterly bizarre:

Jennie is a lesbian woman. She says she is only sexually attracted to women who are biologically female and have vaginas. She therefore only has sex and relationships with women who are biologically female.

Jennie doesn't think this should be controversial, but not everyone agrees. She has been described as transphobic, a genital fetishist, a pervert and a "terf"—a trans exclusionary radical feminist….

Another lesbian woman, 26-year-old Chloe*, said she felt so pressured she ended up having penetrative sex with a trans woman at university after repeatedly explaining she was not interested.

They lived near each other in halls of residence. Chloe had been drinking alcohol and does not think she could have given proper consent.

"I felt very bad for hating every moment, because the idea is we are attracted to gender rather than sex, and I did not feel that, and I felt bad for feeling like that," she said.

Ashamed and embarrassed, she decided not to tell anyone….

One woman reported being targeted in an online group. "I was told that homosexuality doesn't exist and I owed it to my trans sisters to unlearn my 'genital confusion' so I can enjoy letting them penetrate me," she wrote.

My view:

1. People who want to have sex with you may indeed try to make you feel bad for not agreeing.
2. "You owe it to someone to enjoy letting me penetrate you" is a very old story.
3. It's just not clear to me how this gives them the moral high ground.

Comments

[DaivdBehar]

These parties are disturbed individuals. The normal are forced to accommodate their untreated delusions. We are intimidated by ruinous litigation. All PC is case. Everyone is sick of being bullied by the toxic lawyer profession. The remedy is to round up their Ivy indoctrinated, arrogant, tyrannical, immune elite, 25000 traitors. That number includes their indoctrinators like endowed chairs. Try them for insurrection. Change the penalty to death, and execute them in the court basement. To deter. All the paradoxes clear up.

[Cal Cetín]

"She has been described as...a pervert"

So the wheel comes full circle.

It's not about tolerance and acceptance after all. They're even willing to use the same language as the evil old religious reactionaries.

What have we gained by throwing aside the old standards and embracing the new, bizarro standards?

[jimc5499]

I agree Cal. This has nothing to do with the people involved. In 1963 "The 45 Communist Goals" were read into the Congressional Record. Goals 24 through 26 cover what is going on here. Read the rest of them. It's the Democratic Party's playbook and explains a lot.
https://www.ethanallen.org/45_communist_goals_from_58_years_ago

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

[Flagrown]

"Jennie doesn't think this should be controversial, but not everyone agrees"

Jennie is right, but on what subject does everyone agree? The problem is not that there is disagreement, but that we take even the most clearly Procrustean arguments seriously and worthy of discussion.

[David Nieporent]

So you, and this loony author of the original piece, think that communists are anti-censorship? Do you think the Soviet Union was known in its day for its free-wheeling pornographic culture?

[Michael P]

The 45 goals listed are the roadmap for weakening Western societies so they could be toppled. Communists know they aren't sustainable, and impose their usual rigid totalitarianism where they are successful in toppling free governments.

[Sarcastr0]

Those 45 goals are a canard, right? Since the Red Scare, lots of lists
have circulated on the right of different numbers of goals, always suspiciously prescient of the current climate.

This is just the update of 'race mixing is Communism.'

[Blackstone]

But then I think, what about lesbians and dildoes? Or is thinking wrong?

[Del Varner 2]

I read somewhere that the problem isn't what penetrates, but what it is hooked up to.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

Stop forcing everyone into preconceived categories. Think of individuals: what do individuals want?

[rrg144]

I came to a realization recently. I am only attracted to individuals whose anuses are situated in the front of their bodies, which is to say, above, from a frontal view, their genitals. This was at first a very disturbing realization, but it soon became clear to me that is was a revelation, a liberation! I no longer have to concern myself with the concept of having sex! Unless, of course, I meet such a person.

[AmosArch]

Like many cults the modern progressive believes a lot of things that contradict each other.

[Darwinnie]

This is a very particular group of crazies. You can’t extrapolate that all “modern progressives” are like them.

[Ed Grinberg]

Do you oppose equal rights for trans people?! What kind of progressive are you?!

[Social Justice is neither]

Right, they're not all crazy like this they just all enthusiastically support this and will destroy your life for disagreeing. Some are nuts, others are just evil.

[bernard11]

This is a fucking insane generalization.

A few weirdos - pretty much rapists - are now all progressives.

[M L]

bernard are you hetero? If so, I assume you like women with penises too, or else you're transphobic. Agreed?

[Martinned]

I think it's mostly an embarrassing excuse for journalism, ostensibly serving no purpose other than drumming up prejudice against trans women. And your headline makes it worse, because even taking the BBC article seriously pansexuality doesn't have anything to do with it.

[Sarcastr0]

I assumed there would be satyrs and pipes involved.

[Michael P]

No comment about how the person who said "the idea is we are attracted to gender rather than sex, and I did not feel that, and I felt bad for feeling like that" is too "into the gender aspect, weak though it may be"?

I am shocked, shocked.

[Sarcastr0]

Making assumptions about what turns other people on is always a bad idea.
Though here it seems more like any other skeevy play for sex.

[M L]

It's the rotten fruit of the absurd idea that "gender" should be redefined as distinct from "sex."

[Sarcastr0]

No, it's just another shitty attempt to get into someone's pants. If it wasn't this issue it'd be something else.

[M L]

No, that's just the most surface level observation, intentionally avoiding the rest.

[Sarcastr0]

No, that's all this is.

It takes some doing to see this crappy individual anecdote as evidence of some kind of broad issue within the trans community.

[M L]

The point of the article seems to be that it is somewhat of a broad issue within the lesbian community and maybe the trans community. I'm not taking it as evidence of that, though. For me, the point is that certain prevailing views and transgender ideology are blatantly ridiculous as everyone knows, and this just serves to illustrate that. Second, these predators are exploiting the situation to prey on people. Yes, you are correct that predators have always and will always be looking to do that, generally, wherever the opportunity arises. But giving them more tools, advantages, and opportunities means they will have a lot more "success" in their efforts. I'll now repost the quote I posted below:

"Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to."

[Sarcastr0]

Glad this anecdote agrees with your priors, but that's all that this is.

[Krayt]

If you drill down far enough, it's all a shitty attempt to get into someone else's pants.

And then if you drill further, wealth and power acquisition iz the behavior of feathering one's nest so as to attract the best possible mate.

Life has no meaning. You're just part of the manufactured assembly line for your genes to reproduce themselves, with some limited, controlled rescrambling to help scour the dynamic gradient descent fitness space more quickly than mere stray neutrons or chemical transcription errors allow for.

[Sarcastr0]

Never got this view.

Maybe by accident, but our minds and lives include a lot more cool stuff than just trying to reproduce and acquire.

[Krayt]

Yes, it is a serendipitous development. But not inaccurate. Your body is just a bacterial mat where some of the bacteria develop specialties.

[Don Nico]

Items like this give perverts a bad name.
If a sadist wants to whip the bottom, the masochist has no gender, s/he/it is just the target.

[Brett Bellmore]

"because even taking the BBC article seriously pansexuality doesn't have anything to do with it."

'I see five fingers! I really do!'

[Armchair Lawyer]

Pansexuality means being attracted to people no matter their gender or sex.

But some (most) people aren't wired that way. Some lesbians are attracted to biological women, not biological men who identify as women.

That doesn't fit the liberal consensus on the far left though. If there's a biological man who identifies as a woman, then lesbians should be attracted to them, because they identify as women. It's compulsory pansexuality....you WILL be attracted to this biological man, even if you're a lesbian.

And the pressure from the far left on this is severe and disturbing. It's a mirror image of the old days, when some organizations tried to convince lesbians that they really did like men, and they should have intercourse with men. This far left is where the lesbian community traditionally went for support, and it's betraying them.

[Brett Bellmore]

The leading edge of the wedge is only useful for starting the crack. Once you have it started, blunter tools are more appropriate.

IOW, they were just being used, and now that they've served their purpose, they're being discarded.

[Sarcastr0]

Whose purpose? Who are the puppetmasters in this scenario of yours?!

[Ed Grinberg]

https://reason.com/volokh/2021/10/28/nothing-says-free-to-be-me-like-compulsory-pansexuality/?comments=true#comment-9180456

[Sarcastr0]

LOL, the Commies, I tells ya!

OK, Bircher.

[Martinned]

Yes, I know what pansexuality means. And this article is only about the question whether a lesbian ought to be attracted to all women. (Which clearly they don't, and people who say otherwise are trolling/idiots/something along those lines.) No one is pressuring them to be attracted to men.

[Rossami]

Once again, you've managed to completely miss the point by assuming your own conclusion. In this case, you are assuming that biological men who claim to identify as women are in fact women. You seem to be persisting in this blind belief even in the case of self-described "women" who use their biological equipment (penises) in traditionally male ways (for penetration). To cap it off, you are making these claims in defense of perpetrators of rape.

Do you maybe understand now why some people discount your opinions?

[Martinned]

OK, let me say the same thing again, in different words, since clearly some of the words I used before were somehow triggering for you.

Pansexuality basically implies being attracted to everyone. That is in no way what that BBC article is talking about.

[M L]

"Pansexuality basically implies being attracted to everyone. That is in no way what that BBC article is talking about."

That's your opinion. The BBC article discusses women who like women being pressured to have sex with men. So you have men, and women. For some of us, "men and women" covers the waterfront.

[Sarcastr0]

You're begging the question just as hard.

Bottom line is independent of that position - it's pretty hard to deny that whether you think trans women are women or not, not everyone generally attracted to women will be into trans women.

I honestly think Craig Johnson has the right answer in this case. It's the very common pressure for sex, with the gender twist being spice, but not changing anything substantive.
It'd be the same thing with a cis lesbian pressuring a cis straight woman about giving into the patriarchy if she doesn't take a walk on the wild side.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"Bottom line is independent of that position - it's pretty hard to deny that whether you think trans women are women or not, not everyone generally attracted to women will be into trans women."

Of course not, but trans theory says that if you view trans women differently than cis women, you're trans-phobic. This isn't some outlier situation, it's a straightforward application of the theory.

[Sarcastr0]

Not my specialty, but it comes up enough I can tell you that depends on who you ask - plenty advocate for thinking of being trans as an attribute, but independent of gender. Like wearing glasses or not.

Something people can still be into or not, but not about a trans person not 'really' being their gender.

[Don Nico]

"It's the very common pressure for sex".... that is generally known as date rape.

[Sarcastr0]

Indeed. And do you find anyone defending this behavior?

[Don Nico]

Not directly, but lots are riding their hobby horses about "transgender identities."
If a guy wants to be a woman, why isn't he having his penis cut off?
Why is s/he still using the same line that men have used for centuries with women.

[Sarcastr0]

So your issue is you think the a-hole here is pretending to be trans to get into lesbians' pants?!

Seems overly complicated to me. And I certainly don't see anyone assuming the trans woman is sincere as defending her behavior.

[Don Nico]

I did not say he was pretending, but he has a pretty bent idea of a gender change. Same gentalia, same bullshit line, same date rape. and same sexual urge fro penetration.
I see little to say it is not just a male in drag.

[Armchair Lawyer]

"No one is pressuring them to be attracted to men."

Yes. They are explicitly being pressured to engage in intercourse with biological men who identify as women. Which is the entire point. From the article...

"Another lesbian woman, 26-year-old Chloe*, said she felt so pressured she ended up having penetrative sex with a trans woman at university after repeatedly explaining she was not interested. They lived near each other in halls of residence. Chloe had been drinking alcohol and does not think she could have given proper consent. "I felt very bad for hating every moment, because the idea is we are attracted to gender rather than sex, and I did not feel that, and I felt bad for feeling like that," she said. Ashamed and embarrassed, she decided not to tell anyone.
"The language at the time was very much 'trans women are women, they are always women, lesbians should date them'. And I was like, that's the reason I rejected this person. Does that make me bad? Am I not going to be allowed to be in the LGBT community anymore? Am I going to face repercussions for that instead?' So I didn't actually tell anyone."

[Krychek_2]

Ah, but there's a huge difference between "being attracted to men" and "having sex with men." People have sex with people they're not attracted to all the time, for various reasons.

[Armchair Lawyer]

I see...

So your argument breaks down to "We're not lesbians to be attracted to men, we're just pressuring them to have sex with men."

Wow.

[Armchair Lawyer]

(Edit...Not pressuring lesbians to be attracted to men)

[Social Justice is neither]

But Harvey Weinstein was evil, but this is just pure goodness from gender inclusiveness. At least a number of Harvey's victims hot paid for their abuse.

[Krychek_2]

No, that's not my argument. Try again.

[Armchair Lawyer]

How else is it supposed to be interpreted?

Here was my comment

"Yes. They are explicitly being pressured to engage in intercourse with biological men who identify as women"

And you responded....

"Ah, but there's a huge difference between "being attracted to men" and "having sex with men."

Does being pressured to have sex with men somehow make it better than being pressured to be attracted to them?

[Krychek_2]

You missed the part about how you were contradicting a previous comment that "no one is pressuring them to be attracted to men". My point is that they're not being pressured to be attracted to someone -- which can't be forced anyway; ultimately you like what you like -- but to have sex with someone.

You think people engaged in sexual harassment actually care if their victims find them attractive?

[Don Nico]

Weak, very weak defense of a guy in drag

[Voize of Reazon]

That doesn't fit the liberal consensus on the far left though.

Instead we should look for guidance from the conservative consensus on the far right, which would solve the problem by shooting everyone involved.

[Krychek_2]

Not only that, what liberal consensus on the far left? I spend as much time reading liberal blogs as I do conservative ones. There ain't no liberal consensus. And conflating liberals with the far left is fairly silly.

[Armchair Lawyer]

"And conflating liberals with the far left is fairly silly."

That at least is true. The far left isn't liberal in the classical sense of the word. These days, you need to conform to the beliefs of the far left, or be called a traitor or worse. There's no room for dissent.

[Sarcastr0]

The far fringe of any ideology does that, AL.
I've been called a traitor on this blog for all sorts of pretty mainstream positions.

[Armchair Lawyer]

Then it's time for you to renounce and denounce those on the far left.

These are the people who defend raping women in bathrooms (like our Rev.), because their rapists are "trans". These are the people who ignore such transgressions, because of fear of offending the far left community.

The far left is not liberal, in any true sense of the word, but demands conformity. If you don't want to be a "traitor", you must renounce and denounce their extreme positions.

[Sarcastr0]

That's easy - there are awful zealots on the left, as well as the right. And extremist ideologues are bad, regardless of their ideology.

Though I don't see anyone defending rapists if they're trans, or ignoring rapists/rapes.

[Armchair Lawyer]

"Though I don't see anyone defending rapists if they're trans, or ignoring rapists/rapes."

Then you are deliberately blinding yourself.

[Sarcastr0]

Or maybe you're making things up because you want to believe. I don't know; you have provided no evidence.

[Krychek_2]

In some circles, anyone to the left of Mussolini is the far left.

[Armchair Lawyer]

And yet, for some reason I don't think that you believe that.

[Bob from Ohio]

"conflating liberals with the far left is fairly silly"

No its not. They share all the same assumptions and biases, their remedies differ a bit.

Liberals are always moving rapidly left. "trans" and "nonbinary" was a fringe left view less than a decade ago, now its liberal dogma.

State Dept. proudly announced a new "X" category for sex on passports. Blinken is a establishment liberal yet he is full on into the "nonbinary" pool

[Krychek_2]

They may begin with some of the same assumptions and biases, but it's a continuum. There is a qualitative difference between the leftist who wants to nationalize all the factories, versus the liberal who merely thinks the workers there should be paid a decent wage with benefits.

And on this issue, yes, there are a lot of leftists who think that sex is a socially constructed fiction. And a lot of liberals who agree with you that they're nuts, but who also think the law should treat all orientations and identities equally. Again, it's a continuum.

[Brett Bellmore]

" There is a qualitative difference between the leftist who wants to nationalize all the factories, versus the liberal who merely thinks the workers there should be paid a decent wage with benefits. "

About five years difference, at this point, I expect.

[Krychek_2]

Brett, I doubt very much that even the youngest commenter here will see factories nationalized in their lifetime; almost no Democrats are anywhere near that. But if it happens, it will happen because there was a sea change in public opinion and that will reflect the reality of what the public wants. And would have to want pretty badly to overcome all the anti-democratic obstacles and obstructions the Constitution puts in their way.

[Brett Bellmore]

We weren't talking about whether they'd be nationalized, but whether the leftists who prefer to be called 'liberals' would get around to demanding it. They don't get everything they demand, after all.

It didn't take long for them to go from "Same sex bathrooms? That's crazy talk!" to "How dare you object to same sex bathrooms?" And the rate of change has been speeding up lately, I've noticed.

[David Nieporent]

That doesn't fit the liberal consensus on the far left though.

The "liberal consensus on the far left" is word soup.

Unlike some people here, I do think the subject of the post represents a real (though fringe) perspective rather than merely a cynical attempt to get into someone's pants. It's the bleeding edge of the notion that transwoman are women (and transmen are men), rather than merely that it's courtesy to let people self-identify.

But these are extreme, not "liberal," views, let alone a "liberal consensus."

[Armchair Lawyer]

And yet, those extreme positions are being used to make policy today, with real consequences.

Biological men are being moved into female only prisons. And the rate of sexual assault there by biological men is skyrocketing.

Boys who "identify" as girls are allowed into women's bathrooms in schools....where women are sexually assaulted.

These are real concerns with real effects today, from an "extreme" position.

[SimonP]

I cannot fathom where you are getting this information. All I can say is that you should spend some time thinking about the sources feeding you this claptrap about transwomen raping women.

Or, put it another way:

Imagine what your response would be, if we were talking not about transwoman raping women, but police officers raping black people. I'm sure you would find it perfectly acceptable to minimize the phenomenon by pointing to the fact that most black victims of rape are raped by other black people (i.e., not cops).

So, here. Is there a reason that you implicitly treat the level of sexual assault women are subjected to, by their perfectly straight and cisgender husbands, boyfriends, and acquaintances, as nothing noteworthy in itself?

[TwelveInchPianist]

"I cannot fathom where you are getting this information. All I can say is that you should spend some time thinking about the sources feeding you this claptrap about transwomen raping women."

These sources are providing accurate information.

A girl was indeed raped in a girls restroom by a boy in a skirt. A dude identifying as a woman did indeed expose himself to girls in a spa.

The latter was not a hoax, as left wing sources reported, and the irrelevant prior activity of the victim does not negate the former, as left wing outlets are trying to claim.

It's your sources that are providing claptrap.

[TwelveInchPianist]

And the school still lied about the rape on a few occasions, including the hearing to decide whether boys in dresses should be allowed in girls restrooms.

[SimonP]

Agreed. Eugene really tells on himself here, when he doesn't bother to familiarize himself with what pansexualism actually is. We don't need his take on this issue.

[Doug Heffernan]

I don't understand this stuff.

Penetrators often want to penetrate. "Genital confusion" is a really bad line.

Any individual or other that doesn't want to be penetrated by any other individual or other, needs no other reason.

It is fine to have interest or disinterest in "types" of individuals. This tendency is as old as dirt.

Biological denialism is untethered from reality.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"Biological denialism is untethered from reality."

As is most of gender theory.

[Ed Grinberg]

What "progressive" idea isn't untethered from reality?!

[Brett Bellmore]

It's not about 'transsexuals' any more than O'Brien was torturing Winston over a number of fingers.

She's attracted to women, she WILL be attracted to trans-'women', or they'll eventually escalate to the electroshock and cage with a live rat.

Because the left doesn't really care about weird sexual deviancies. They care that you read their minds about how high when they decide you should jump.

[Ed Grinberg]

Plus they really enjoy administering electroshocks.
Our moral betters!

[bernard11]

Here's more "the left" insane BS from Brett.

[Brett Bellmore]

Insane is a moving target, I've noticed. Today's insane is tomorrow's "of course".

[DaveM]

It's easy to take advantage of people who buy into the politically correct half-truths of our age. The first step towards mental clarity is to insist you only speak the truth to yourself.

Thus in this example, the truth would be that there is no such thing as a trans woman who can penetrate you. That was a man you got bullied into having sex with.

So now you know why you feel so bad. Now you are mentally equipped to stop yourself from falling for the same con again.

[TwelveInchPianist]

It's inevitable based on trans theory, that trans women are women, and if straight men or lesbians don't want anything to do with the dick, it's based on a transphobic fear of a certain type of women's genitals that they should strive to overcome.

You can't accept part of the theory, you have to reject it in toto.

Back to reality, folks!

[Bob from Ohio]

"inevitable based on trans theory"

Absolutely right. Chloe was just giving up her false consciousness.

Poor

[Sarcastr0]

Love to hear people who think trans rights are a communist plot tells us what the latest in trans theory is.

[TwelveInchPianist]

As Arthur would say, Lesbians, you lost the culture war! Open wide and accept the preferences of your betters!

[DaveM]

Wouldn't that be lesbians "clingers", though? As I recall, he somehow always managed to get that word in. (I stopped reading him after he admitted to being a troll.)

[TwelveInchPianist]

Lesbians are just as capable of being clingers as anybody else.

[Krychek_2]

One important point that's being missed here is the blatant misogyny -- people with penises are again telling women what to do and how to have sex. Does anyone think for one split second that this would work with heterosexual males? "I may have a penis, but if you don't have sex with me you're a genital fetishist." Of course not. The only reason this works is because it's being done to women. And that's the real story that's being missed here -- the outrageous misogyny being perpetrated by some of the trans activists.

[Michael P]

Yup. One of the fundamental, inviolable rights should be to decline intimate relations with anyone, for any reason. Don't like what is between their legs, because of anatomy or size or hygiene or whatever? Fine. Don't like their religion, their politics, their favorite sports team? Fine. Don't like their face? Fine. Don't like the way they trim their left thumbnail a millimeter longer than their right? Fine.

The reason to decline is nobody's business but one's own. It might be polite to inform the person being rejected, but not obligatory. The only thing anyone else should care about is whether there is informed, legally capable consent.

[DaveM]

The only reason this works is because it's being done to women.

That's painting with too narrow a brush, I think. The reason this works is because some people have stopped speaking the truth to themselves about some obvious facts of biology, and that has made them easy prey. No doubt this hurts both men and women.

[Armchair Lawyer]

Careful now...with wording like that you may get banned from commenting on liberal platforms.

[Sarcastr0]

No. It won't.

You continue to not know what liberalism is in the modern era. Or how ideologies work in general.

[Armchair Lawyer]

Calling a man who identifies as a woman a man results in being banned from twitter....

[Sarcastr0]

Not by itself it won't.
Krychek_2's comment wouldn't be banned from twitter, and you know it.

[Brett Bellmore]

But Krychek_2 didn't call a 'trans-woman' a "man". He sad "people with penises". It's true they won't ban you for that. They WILL ban you for for calling a man a man, if they're pretending they're a woman.

[Armchair Lawyer]

You are correct of course. Krychek called them people with penises, not biological men. Personally, I think the term "biological men" is more accurate and less coarse, as opposed to "women with penises." That's just me

I may have been extrapolating slightly with what Twitter would ban. I wonder if Twitter will ban you for calling them "Women with penises" as opposed to "Biological Men" in the future. Or perhaps both.

[mjc51]

OMG yes!

[TwelveInchPianist]

"Does anyone think for one split second that this would work with heterosexual males?"

I don't know if it works, but the same issue certainly arises with straight men.

[SimonP]

The difference, of course, is that, when it comes to transwomen and heterosexual men, the issue is less, "The man prefers to have sex with women who have vaginas," than it is, "The transwoman would prefer not to be murdered or beaten when she reveals her trans identity."

Also, it's worth noting that lots of heterosexual men are totally down with getting it on with transwomen, including transwomen without "bottom surgery." No pregnancy risk, more into anal/oral, more performatively "female" in other respects, more discreet, etc. Men, uh, like to stick their dicks in things, and they don't actually care that much about what it is.

[Don Nico]

"people with penises are again telling women what to do and how to have sex."
Yup, I agree. If a guy wants to be a women, he should have that dick cut off.

[dwb68]

If a man had done this, it would be considered rape and he'd be kicked out without due process. But when a Trans takes advantage of alcohol to pressure a woman for sex with no consequences, it's just 2021.

[Armchair Lawyer]

Don't forget. If the woman objects, she's transphobic, and will be socially censored for her non-kosher views.

[M L]

Right. Like when the 14 year old girl was raped in the school bathroom in Loudoun County, and then her dad tried to speak up at a school board meeting and they had him arrested and silenced and convicted, a video of it went viral and the media pretended it was about masks or something, the national school board association used the incident to call parents who disagree with school boards "domestic terrorists" and Garland sicc'ed the DOJ and FBI on them. The school quietly transferred the rapist to another school where he promptly did it again.

[ReaderY]

The essence of the process, equally true on both the left and the right, is that you are should to think, feel, and believe what you are supposed to think, feel, and believe, and if you don’t, something is wrong with you.

If there is nothing physical about gender, and thinking there is something physical is false and feeling there is something physical is psychological phobia at best and moral perversity at worst, then everything described in this post follows pretty straightforwardly.

In the conservative camp there has always been a set male teenagers who go to purity meetings solely to find girls who suspect they are lesbians and prevail on them to sleep with them to show they are really straight.

It’s exactly the same mentally, exactly the same behavior, exactly the same type of people.

Just as when the East German state succeeded the Nazi regime, it remained exactly the same goose step. Only the slogans changed.

[ReaderY]

The sense of moral sin and guilt that this particular set of purity community hangers-on was exploiting for purposes of getting laid was not the sin of non-pansexualism. It was the sin of being attracted to physical female sex, not self-identified female gender, a most impure sin for the lesbians of this purity community.

Persuading lesbians with impure feelings (from the point of view of this purity community) to sleep with them to prove their gender-and-not-sex motivated purity bona fides is a direct analog of the male hangers-on of conservative Christian purity communities who persuade girls who feel guilty about attraction to girls to sleep with them to prove to themselves that they aren’t lesbians.

[Longtobefree]

Men are men.
Women are women.
Science.

(and most likely, that was rape)

[Dan Schiavetta]

When a grossly overweight woman was rebuffed by a (lesbian) friend of mine, my friend got accused of being a “looks-ist”. This was 1980. My friend suffered maybe five minutes of guilt and got over it. You can’t control what turns you on, or turns you off.

[Ed Grinberg]

You can’t control what turns you on, or turns you off.

You have to work on your political consciousness, comrade!

[Brett Bellmore]

"You can’t control what turns you on, or turns you off."

Yeah, you probably think you can't mentally stop your heart from beating, too. Had fun with my cardiologist proving I could.

Doesn't really matter that you could control it if you really were determined to, and understood how to go about it. You're entitled to have your own preferences regardless.

[Craig Johnston]

A story as old as “just the tip”.

[OtisAH]

Gives *who* the moral high ground?

[Ed Grinberg]

The people who'll tell you you're a bigot if you don't agree that "trans women are women."

[OtisAH]

Those people already have the high ground by simply not being assholes. I meant in regards to this article.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"Those people already have the high ground by simply not being assholes. I meant in regards to this article."

The guy in the article sure seems like an asshole.

[OtisAH]

There’s no guy in the article.

[Social Justice is neither]

So on your world rapists have the high ground if they're trans. Wow.

[JonFrum]

Eugene Learns a Lesson.

This is old news for those who have been paying attention. There have been multiple cases of women in prison being raped by 'transwomen' locked up with them. That is, violent male prisoners who have been allowed to claim to be trans - without question - and be sent to a women's prison. It has happened in multiple states, and in the UK.

I wonder what Eugene thinks about that.

[Sarcastr0]

Dunno about those scare quotes - the search for the insincere trans has been largely hypothetical from what I've seen.

[Martinned]

You've got to give them that, they sure are persistent. For example, the search for all those missing Trump votes continues apace.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/10/audit-fever-is-now-spreading-to-states-trump-easily-won.html

[Ed Grinberg]

So, the incident the OP describes was OK, as long as the perpetrator sincerely believed they were female?

[Sarcastr0]

Yes, this is exactly what I said and think. Great reading!!

[OtisAH]

It hasn’t happened once, anywhere.

[Michael P]

And by "hasn't happened once anywhere", you mean it is rice times as likely: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-sex-attacks-in-womens-jails-by-transgender-convicts-cx9m8zqpg

[Sarcastr0]

That's far from your original thesis.

[TwelveInchPianist]

How so?

[Sarcastr0]

His thesis was about the trans women lying about it to get access to the women's prison.

I see no evidence of that in the linked article. Or at least what's not behind the paywall.

[TwelveInchPianist]

You can't lie about it, it's based on self-ID. If you say you feel like a woman, then you feel like a woman.

[M L]

I'm going out tonight
I'm feelin' alright
Gonna let it all hang out!
Wanna make some noise
Really raise my voice
Yeah, I wanna scream and shout
No inhibitions
Make no conditions
Get a little outta line
I ain't gonna act politically correct
I only wanna have a good time

The best thing about being a woman
Is the prerogative to have a little fun

Oh, oh, oh, go totally crazy
Forget I'm a lady
Men's shirts
Short skirts
Oh, oh, oh, really go wild
Yeah, doin' it in style
Oh, oh, oh, get in the action
Feel the attraction
Color my hair
Do what I dare
Oh, oh, oh, I wanna be free
Yeah, to feel the way I feel
Man! I feel like a woman!

[Michael P]

I'm not sure who's thesis you think you are talking about. My thesis here is that "hasn't happened once anywhere" is so wrong it's not really credible as a good-faith claim.

[Sarcastr0]

And yet you haven't established even one example of JonFrum's scenario of fake transsexuals.

[Brett Bellmore]

So, your position is that guys who claim to be girls, get into women's prisons, and then rape real girls, aren't faking being trans to get at the girls, but are instead, trans lesbian rapists?

And that's what you find more plausible than some heterosexual rapists lying about their 'gender' to get into a women's prison? Seriously?

You are absurdly determined to deny this happens.

[Michael P]

He is absurdly determined to deny a lot of things that are pretty obvious to everyone else, thus his other nickname.

Why won't we just accept that self-identified trans women are good, decent people who would never lie, even those who are convicted of crimes, sentenced to prison, and go on to rape women while in prison? Are you the kind of transphobic bigot who will not assume good faith by every putative trans woman in that kind of scenario, huh?

[Sarcastr0]

Yes, the right does love their unsupported received wisdom.

The rapists in the article don't seem like good decent people, but I'm not going to just assume they are lying, nor what the UK prison policy is about such claims.

I don't know. You don't know. Your appeal to 'obvious' is unconvincing.

[Sarcastr0]

I don't know the facts. Neither do you. Appeal to incredulity all you want, but that's just you begging the question.

[Archibald Tuttle]

My view:

People who want to have sex with you may indeed try to make you feel bad for not agreeing.
"You owe it to someone to enjoy letting me penetrate you" is a very old story.
It's just not clear to me how this gives them the moral high ground.

Very well said professor.

[Number 2]

Haven’t we been told that using “shame” to persuade another person to let you penetrate him or her is a form of “rape” perpetrated by a “rape culture?”

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

This time, I think I'll just stand aside and let you guys set yourselves ablaze.

[ThanksForTheFish]

As usual Artie gets it wrong. The battle of the activists has caused the blaze. The rest of us are just discussing if we should roast marshmallows or wieners over the open pit fire.

[ThanksForTheFish]

Maybe it's time feminists took a stand and called the science deniers FERTAs. Female exclusionary radical trans activists.

[M L]

This has been percolating for years. Genital preferences! Transphobic!

“Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.”

[tkamenick]

This is so incredibly predictable and maybe, MAYBE, this is where the wheel turns.

[Alan Vanneman]

I'm confused. Do you think that people have a constitutional right to prefer having sex with women who have vaginas? Do you think it's unconstitutional to prefer having sex with women who have vaginas? (If I'm getting it wrong I apologize, because I didn't read the whole thing.) Since you are, you know, a lawyer, it might be more interesting to know if you thought that Donald Trump should have been impeached for inciting the Jan. 6 riot. I mean, unless you just want to make this blog all vaginas all the time. That is, after all, your constitutional right.

[M L]

This is sarcasm right?

[gormadoc]

I'm pretty sure Volokh said that he doesn't like covering what other regular contributors have already talked about and doesn't coordinate with them, apparently referring both to Blackman posting on a similar topic (an SC decision, I think) and the impeachment. He's also pointed out that his expertise is in free speech and 2A rights. You're going to be waiting a while.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

" I'm pretty sure Volokh said that he doesn't like covering what other regular contributors have already talked about "

That explains the recent seven-post, Volokh-Blackman-Bernstein barrage with respect to the Federalist Society trap house's fried chicken party . . .

[Jimmy the Dane]

There was an argument back in the 90's that as a heterosexual man you had some sort of "duty" to "hook up" with a homosexual man to "test" your sexuality. It was pervasive in some college campuses - "don't knock it till you try it" - with lots of pressure from that generation of diversity czars.

It demonstrates how dangerous and strange PC can become especially when it involves individual autonomy and liberty.

[Archibald Tuttle]

I have an idea. We can double down on them. I'm not a hetero male, I'm a double tran. TT for short.

[Bubba Jones]

I’ve been hearing the line “I’m a lesbian trapped in a man’s body” since the 70s. But this is the first time I have heard of it actually working.

This story wouldn’t surprise anyone who has been watching Dave Chapelle for the last few years. He has been calling this out directly.

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

It's been a few years since Dave Chapelle was actually funny.

[SimonP]

Look, the queer community has a lot to figure out, when it comes to gender expression, gender identity, and how those issues intersect the whole notion of "same-sex" attraction. It's definitely the case that we don't have a lot of clear ideas about how to talk about or think about these issues.

One thing I do know, however, is that we certainly don't need the cishets in the peanut gallery nursing a strange obsession with transwomen to throw their two cents' in. Y'all can shove it where your wives won't go, despite your secretly craving penetration.

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

In a blog full of batshit crazy comment sections, this one took the cake. Amusing to see commenters unconsciously exposing their own odd sexual proclivities.

[Don Nico]

AWD,
As I said earlier, the bottom is neither a male or female, it is the target.

[jdgalt1]

The lesson to be learned here, as well as from the Loudon County rapes, is that some (not necessarily all) of those who demand that our institutions treat "gender identity" as a real thing are simply gaming the system in order to get away with real offenses ranging from invading the privacy of a women's bathroom to rape. And that the system has a responsibility to protect people against these crimes regardless of the feelings of a few deviants.

As for all the confusing new language, it is nonsense intended to obfuscate, and we should not be expected to cooperate by using it nor by pretending that trannies really are the sex they are pretending to be.

[DWB]

You opened the door Eugene with Obergefell, enjoy!

[jdgalt1]

Obergefell was an unwise ruling for the same reason Roe was -- it forces federal uniformity on a topic that belongs to the states to legislate about.