The Volokh Conspiracy
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Justice Breyer Approaches His Retirement Like He Approaches His Judicial Decisions: With An Indeterminate, Multi-Factor Balancing Test
"There are a lot of blurred things there, and there are many considerations. They form a whole. I’ll make a decision."
Justice Breyer visited the New York Times bureau in Washington to talk about his new book. His publisher circulated "ground rules," and said Breyer would not respond to questions about his retirement. Adam Liptak had other plans. Liptak asked Breyer several questions about retirement, and Breyer answered.
Liptak asked Breyer about a Rehnquist quote, and Breyer answered.
He was asked about a remark from Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist, who died in 2005, in response to a question about whether it was "inappropriate for a justice to take into account the party or politics of the sitting president when deciding whether to step down from the court."
"No, it's not inappropriate," the former chief justice responded. "Deciding when to step down from the court is not a judicial act."
That sounded correct to Justice Breyer. "That's true," he said.
Then Breyer volunteered a quote from another Justice that was on this mind:
He recalled approvingly something Justice Antonin Scalia had told him.
"He said, 'I don't want somebody appointed who will just reverse everything I've done for the last 25 years,'" Justice Breyer said during a wide-ranging interview on Thursday. "That will inevitably be in the psychology" of his decision, he said.
"I don't think I'm going to stay there till I die — hope not," he said.
And before you know it, Breyer opened up with his internal debate:
Justice Stephen G. Breyer says he is struggling to decide when to retire from the Supreme Court and is taking account of a host of factors, including who will name his successor. "There are many things that go into a retirement decision," he said.
Justice Breyer approaches his retirement the same way he approaches his judicial decisions: with an indeterminate, multi-factor balancing test:
The justice tried to sum up the factors that would go into his decision. "There are a lot of blurred things there, and there are many considerations," he said. "They form a whole. I'll make a decision."
He paused, then added: "I don't like making decisions about myself." …
But he seemed at pains to make one thing clear: He is a realist.
"I've said that there are a lot of considerations," Justice Breyer said. "I don't think any member of the court is living in Pluto or something."
A lot of blurred things that make a whole. This amalgamation sums up just about any Breyer opinion.
My guess? He didn't retire this year, to prove he was not influenced by politics. But he will retire next year when the Democrats still maintain a slight majority in the Senate. Of course, that balance could easily change.
Justice Breyer also referred to the "shadow docket" by name. I think this is the first time a Justice has used that phrase publicly.
Justice Breyer said the court should take its foot off the gas. "I can't say never decide a shadow-docket thing," he said. "Not never. But be careful. And I've said that in print. I'll probably say it more."
Asked whether the court should supply reasoning when it makes such decisions, he said: "Correct. I agree with you. Correct."
Kudos to Will Baude for making such an important contribution on this point.
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Yes, I too expect him to retire next year, particularly if it is still looking bad for the Democrats by then.
I wonder who Biden would tee up? Presumably somebody he could paint as a moderate, but who was secretly known to be nothing of the sort, similar to Garland.
Why was Garland not a moderate (I mean, a moderate Democrat)?
Because we've seen his behavior as AG.
That’s an advocacy position not a judicial one. And while judicial politics is still politics, people take different approaches than they do in pure advocacy positions for various reasons.
Wait, for four years I was told that the role of an AG is to oppose the president.
If they asked for something wacky unprofessional, yeah.
It's likely more correct that you are repeatedly reminded that the role involves defending the Constitution, a responsibility that during Jan 2016 - Jan 2021, for some odd reason, frequently required opposing the sitting president.
Whereas during Democratic administrations it requires attacking the Constitution?
It involves a lot less defending the Constitution from unconstitutional asks by the President.
You only say that because you don't mind unconstitutional attacks on the parts of the Constitution you don't like. You know, 2nd amendment rights, or, pertinently, the 4th amendment rights of landlords...
No. You think a lot of things are unconstitutional based on your own idiosyncratic understanding of the Constitution.
I'm talking about Trump asking the DoJ to do things they are black letter not allowed to do, like opine on the election without evidence, or kill investigations because they vex him, or stop prosecuting criminals the President likes, or prosecute the people he does.
This isn't subtle, opinion stuff.
You have some genuinely weird ideas of what Presidents aren't allowed to direct their subordinates to do or refrain from. You know that?
I mean, sure, a President can't order the prosecution of somebody he dislikes if there's no probable cause to justify it. You have that much right, anyway. He can't order a crime committed, and that would be a crime!
But killing investigations that 'vex' him? Ending prosecutions he thinks shouldn't be pursued? Absolutely within his power. Prosecutorial discretion is a thing, and in the executive branch, HE has it. Everybody else just has bits of his executive power, delegated to them.
You think he can literally take somebody who's been convicted of a crime, and clear them, and he can't tell one of his flunkies, "Stop wasting your time going after this guy, and start doing something important!"?
The 4th amendment rights of landlords?
"The 4th amendment rights of landlords?"
That's the one that covers unreasonable seizures.
That's a different position.
For your sake (and mine), I hope you never see what an actual ideologue looks like when running DOJ.
Yes, Brett, we know you can spout the OAN talking points. Doesn't make them any less stupid. There is no "behavior as AG" that shows him not to be a moderate Democrat.
Apparently you have a worse opinion of the average Democrat than I do, then.
Every Democrat nominee should be blocked to the utmost to stop the Commie takeover of our nation. Biden will nominate a woke diverse, a catastrophe for our nation. Woke diverse people will make our nation a shithole once in power. They will go on vicious vendetta driven witch hunts of the productive people.
The Democrat party is the party of the ugly. The Democrat agenda is retaliation for the mistreatment the ugly have endured for years.
Breyer is an Ivy indoctrinated, Beltway acculturated, rent seeking lawyer dumbass. Biden has horrible judgment, and is a traitor. The next Democrat nominee will be 10 times worse than he is, a woke diverse.
Authoritarian nut. Trumpista, no coincidence.
Cite? lol
You have made a silly response to a silly comment
Did you ever listen to Breyer speak for more than 5 minutes? He makes you want to bash your head to stop the pain of his Harvard talk.
The big words are too hard for you.
Breyer is still on the court?
I don't actually hate the reference; yeah, Breyer does love the over-complicated.
That said, what he is going through is human. And likely influenced by events that he has seen; both examples of Justices who left the Court "too early" and continued on, wishing that they had never left (such as O'Connor) and Justices that died while still on the bench (RBG, Scalia).
It's GOOD to be a Justice. Right? And I bet that in his heart of heart, he wants to stay. He doesn't want to stop being a Supreme Court Justice. But he's also not a fool; this isn't before the 80s; it is politicized. And he knows that if he doesn't retire soon, the GOP might re-take control of the Senate and just refuse to seat anyone until whenever there is another GOP President, causing quite the issue. Something to NOT look forward to.
He's just from a different time.
"this isn’t before the 80s; it is politicized"
As opposed to the Rutledge nomination, the Matthews nomination, the Brandeis nomination, the Parker nomination, the Fortas nomination, the Haynesworth nomination, and the Carswell nomination?
Liberalism, to a leftist, is generally acceptable politics. The way government should be and ought to be. Nothing controversial there. Liberal = normal. Conservative = extreme/politicized. It is all just frame.
"I don't think any member of the court is living in Pluto or something."
Hey, Mr. Justice, could you get your colleagues to reinstate Pluto as a planet?
That would be a worthy monument to leave behind.
You win the internet today.
The Supreme Court is being forced to essentially manage the federal judiciary through emergency orders more for a few reasons, as I see it.
The first is that the law is just so muddied these days that a reasonable judges could objectively reach multiple conclusions while still being within what most would consider the acceptable bounds of interpretation. You can see this with the eviction ban. Courts were all over the place, but in the end the majority of the Supreme Court said it was not even a close call. Go figure.
Secondly, judges are producing more "ends justify the means" type rulings not supported by law. The Supreme Court seems like it will correct most of these outliers but that is usually going to require some emergency action. More action on that docket is directly related to more activist rulings out of the Ninth Circus and elsewhere.
Lastly, there is just more litigation now then there was even a generation ago. You can't have one centralized court of last resort that solely sets national precedent only hearing 100 cases a year.
Maybe they could try hearing 150 cases a year, like they used to?
And make more of an effort to settle things, instead of just returning the district courts' serves, and seeing how long they can keep the volley going?
"And make more of an effort to settle things, instead of just returning the district courts’ serves, and seeing how long they can keep the volley going?"
But that's how appellate courts (and that's what the Supreme Court is ... well, okay, there is that small bit of original jurisdiction, but you know what I mean) are supposed to work in most cases.
Remand to the trial court (district court) for proceedings consistent with the opinion. Because the appellate courts usually are there to resolve issues of law; they are not the fact-finders.
That's not always the case. And I do agree that there are times that the Supremes (not including Ms. Diana Ross) take this idea to absurd lengths ... but as a general rule, I much prefer appellate court to err on the side of deciding too little than to err on the side of making grand sweeping pronouncements that haven't been briefed and go far beyond the parties before it.
There is something to be said about constitutional avoidance, but this court takes that doctrine to the extreme. Or if it wants to only issue narrow decisions it needs to grant more cases. The Second Amendment is a great example of ambiguous law. You get two blockbuster decisions out of the court, back to back in a few years, then nothing except a per curium basically saying "seriously" for over a decade. Lower courts are left to split the baby, read the tea leaves, and develop their own circuit related precedent that conflicts. Even well meaning judges have no idea and have to take their best guess. Setting a level of scrutiny is some hornbook constitutional law kind of stuff, but we can't even get that out of the Supreme Court when it comes to the Second Amendment. And although I prefer an answer that protected individual rights, at some point in time you just need an answer to the question even if it is to the contrary. What we are seeing is a complete lack of governance from the Third Branch. And that is not good for America.
"What we are seeing is a complete lack of governance from the Third Branch."
I mean ... probably because they are supposed to adjudicate cases and controversies ... not govern?
We have two other branches for governance (however poorly they might do it). Governance is certainly not supposed to be what SCOTUS is doing, and to the extent they are, something has gone horribly wrong.
Agree "something has gone horribly wrong."
Congress and the prez have made some of the most absurd laws, EOs, and the like and the SC has done little or nothing to address them. Still don't get Roberts flip flop on the Obamacare tax or not tax stuff. Not to mention the 2A stuff that means crossing a state, county, or city line can turn one into a felon. Same for the immigration mess.
It is said that America's greatest strength is that it is a nation of laws; problem is no one knows what the laws are.
So, I apologize if I was insufficiently clear.
My "joke" (or point?) such as it was is much more simple. Courts are not supposed to govern. That's not why we have courts.
We have legislatures and an executive branch to govern (to write and execute laws), but the courts are not supposed to govern us; just to adjudicate disputes between parties.
This fine distinction often gets lost! But the best way to deal with "absurd laws" (as you put it) isn't to get Courts to determine what laws are absurd and what aren't*, or to just have the Courts make the law, but to have a legislature that doesn't pass "absurd laws," and an executive that doesn't execute those laws in an "absurd" fashion.
*As opposed to unconstitutional, which should be a rarity.
"*As opposed to unconstitutional, which should be a rarity."
Yeah, it should be a rarity, you got that much right. Should and is parted ways a long time ago.
You interpret when I say "govern" more like "legislate". What I meant (and assumed would be generally understood) is the court is failing to execute their role within the framework of our constitutional system. No they should not be issuing decisions that are de facto legislation. Yes, they should be hearing actual cases that interpret the law and providing concrete guidance on the application of that law. In that duty, I would say the Supreme Court is generally failing.
For once I agree with Jimmy the Dane. There is a difference between saying that SCOTUS shouldn't legislate from the bench and saying that SCOTUS shouldn't make decisions at all. It sometimes seems as if this Court takes pride in not deciding cases, as if they collectively pat themselves on the back when they find a way to dispose of a case in a manner that doesn't actually resolve anything. They will pompously explain that they won't reverse even the most egregious circuit court decisions because they're too important for mere error correction, but then they also refuse to Say What The Law Is.
This is a personal decision as much as anything else, knowing that his time on this Earth is drawing to a close, involving his family, seeing friends before they pass away, places too, children, grandchildren. As such it is beyond Josh's understanding. Which is why Josh is being as sophomoric jerk as he often is.
Right.
There is a huge difference between a judge's decision-making on a case and on a personal question, whether of retirement or something else.
In the latter you are not bound by any rules, are allowed to take anything you want into account. Of course it balances a number of factors - most significant life decisions do.
"In the latter you are not bound by any rules, are allowed to take anything you want into account. Of course it balances a number of factors – most significant life decisions do."
I'm sure at some point in his life, the late Justice Scalia was looking at some important personal decision he had to make, and started bellowing, "WHERE IS THE BRIGHT LINE!!??!!"
Would be interested in a study of how judges conduct personal decision making and how that matches up with their judicial approach.
I was just making a joke, but ...
IME most "conservative" jurists tend to view things as cut & dry, black & white in their personal lives as well, and most "liberal" jurists tend to over-complicate things.
Not always. But enough of the time. And I don't mean that the conservative jurists are "uncomplicated" or "stupid," but that they prefer to reduce something to what they see as a few salient issues, whereas liberal jurists are more likely to suffer paralysis by analysis.
But that's just personal observation, and hardly statistically relevant.
Personal is certainly different from political.
It might have been Sam Donaldson, but someone said this about Reagan: “He will give you the shirt off your back, and then go to his office and sign legislation denying assistance to your disabled old mother.”
Why is Sam Donaldson letting his disabled mother live in poverty?
Well, duh. The shirt off his back was his to give. The tax money was somebody else's. How is this a difficult distinction to grasp?
Reagan did not care about spending tax money, so long as it wasn't on poor people.
Let us not forget death.
The Ds currently control the Senate 50 + 1 to 50. A single death could flip it to a much more comfortable 50-49, or a majority flipping 49-50. So you don't want to retire and find that Senate control flips before your successor is confirmed.
At present, death is marginally on the D side. The GOP caucus is a little older, and there are more R Senators in States with D Governors than D Senators in States with R Governors (9 to 7).
If he wants to retire before Jan 2023, the safest bet is to await an R Senator death.
Meanwhile Breyer is a healthy 83 year old. Not a fatty like Scalia and not a cancer patient like RBG. Breyer's life expectancy is probably at least ten years, and he could easily make it to 100. I'd say he has excellent odds of outlasting Clarence Thomas.
Why not wait for 2025 if you're enjoying yourself ?
Looking at an actuarial chart, at 83 he has a life expectancy of another 6.79 years. But that includes 83 year olds who are already sick, and he is getting good health care, so, yeah, probably about 10 years.
Even 97 year olds don't easily make it to 100, though. They've got a less than even chance of it.
Breyer can serve his country by leaving after the election of 2024.
Men who are active and healthy beyond 80 are a rarity but they tend to have longevity if they can get over that late 60's, early 70's hump in decent health. If Breyer has ongoing medical issues he has managed to keep them private. I would suspect if he wanted to continue to serve he could do so effectively for another 5-10 years barring anything that suddenly jolts his health. And many older men just keep on working because, for whatever reason, when they stop they tend to decline and die within a short period of time. If he saw that happen to his friends and colleagues over the last decade he might be convinced it is better to stay a justice until he dies in office then retire and go down that path. Idle men that age don't get too many months of good health while being inactive. That is just the way nature is I guess.
I call it "social apoptosis"; There's something in the back of your head that monitors whether you're benefiting the tribe or just sucking down resources, and when it decides the latter, it pulls the kill switch. As long as you're doing something you can convince yourself is useful to society, or ideally family, your odds of remaining healthy are much better.
IF Democrats are in control : May Retire
else if Republicans are in control: Will not retire
else if Republicans are thought to be in immediate danger of taking control: will retire beforehand.
No need for a doctoral thesis. Its not rocket science.
Well it's the kind of science democrats engage in, which is entirely political calculus and not based on the scientific method.
In any case, he'll do what he wants, the lefties in Congress will shake their boogie thang to get another far leftie on the court, Lindsay Graham will go along with it for some reason.
It would be entirely hilarious if he waits too long and they lose the Senate again. Whoopsie. (7-2 for Artie)
If they lose the Senate again, I expect he'll retire while the Democrats still hold the White house, and hope for the best. Because losing the Senate would not bode well for 2024, and if the Republicans take the White House in 2024, his odds of outliving that President will not be great.
Or maybe he'll just hold on as long as he enjoys the job, and let politics take care of themselves.
By the way, if they lose the Senate in the 2022 election, it would be perfectly legit for him to immediately retire, and the Senate to act on Biden's nomination during a lame duck session. Just getting that out. I'd likely not enjoy it, but it would still be legitimate.
"...an indeterminate, multi-factor balancing test." IOW, based on his emotions and biases.
Just wait until you find out about causes of action and remedies in equity.
Your head may explode!
I don’t think anybody disrespects Metrick Garland or thinks him lacking competence and temperament, although I understand there were 30 votes against his confirmation.
I think we are at a point where the country has two different mainstreams. No nominee the Democrats could possibly support would be considered “mainstream” by Republicans; no nominee the Republicans could possibly support would be considered “mainstream” by Democrats. People one side would consider a moderate would, at this point, be considered a crazy idealogue by most of the other side.
It just seems to be the way it is. Under these curcumstances, words like “mainstream” and “moderate” may not really have any meaning.
What would a “moderate” position on abortion be? Allow abortion on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but not on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays? It’s hard to imagine any position that proponents and opponents could possibly both consider moderate.
Many other issues, these days, have eeached a similar point as well.
We are at the point where an abortion opponent is moderate if they advocate only a short jail term for it. An abortion proponent is a moderate if they advocate only limited government subsidies for it. How could there possibly be any overlap? That’s where we are.
What would a “moderate” position on abortion be?
Well according to recent polls, a little over 60% support first trimester abortion, something around two thirds oppose second trimester abortion and around 80% oppose third trimester abortion. So it looks like abortion up to the end of the first trimester is fairly "moderate."
Which is not to say that the primary voters who select GOP and Dem candidates would see it that way.
If you get into the weeds of those polls, you'll find that elective abortions don't poll very well even in the first trimester.
That assertion seems weak.
Well I'm against first trimester abortions, but I'm against the government regulating it too.
But I'm certainly open to 2nd and approve of third trimester abortions.
Agreed, the left and right's conceptions of the duties of the judiciary are largely disjoint at this point.
" I think we are at a point where the country has two different mainstreams. "
The American mainstream is the liberal-libertarian alliance, victor in the culture war. Conservatives -- disaffected, defeated, declining -- are on the wrong side of history and have lost their claim to being part of the modern American mainstream.
Conservatives continue to lord over our declining, desolate, can't-keep-up backwaters, though, which seems to confuse some people with respect to relevance and the mainstream.