The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
How Is the New "Mute User" Function Working for You?
I blogged two weeks ago about this function, and got some very helpful feedback about it; but now that many of you have had some experience using it, I'd love to hear what you think. (I've found it quite helpful in helping me focus on comments that are most likely to be interesting and useful, but that might be just me.) Here is my earlier post:
Reason has added a new feature to its commenting system: You can now mute, just for yourself, comments posted by any commenters; simply click "Mute User" on their post. (You need to be signed on to the site to do that, since your personal muted-users list is kept with your user profile.)
As you may know, I try to take a light hand in moderating the existing comments. People can and do express all sorts of views in the comments; I occasionally delete comments that involve personal insults of fellow commenters, vulgar insults more generally, threats of violence, or, occasionally, rhetorical calls for mass killing of one's opponents.
One commenter, for instance, has repeatedly complained that I deleted his posts where he called other commenters "slack-jaws" or, presumably thinking himself clever, labeled defenders of the police that he disagreed with as engaging in "cop succor." I stand entirely by those decisions; I think these sorts of insults and vulgarities poison the conversation, and I want the comment threads to be a conversation. Every so often, I'll entirely block a commenter on similar grounds.
But I don't like to do that, and I don't generally ban commenters who I think are persistently foolish, dishonest, anti-Semitic, racist, and so on—or are just merely cranks trying to shift each conversation to their peculiar hobby-horses. Life is too short to spend much time on comment moderation. And, more importantly, I generally want each of you to decide what comments you want to read, rather than having me do that.
This new feature will make it easier for each of you to do that. None of you has any obligation to read any commenter (or for that matter to read our blog at all!)—if you find that someone's comments make the blog less valuable for you rather than more, you should feel free to mute them. I expect you already do that mentally, by just skipping over comments from certain people. This will make it easier.
Naturally, I hope our readers won't mute a thoughtful commenter just because they disagree with that commenter: I think part of the value of our comments is the ability to read interesting perspectives from many sides. But that's a choice that each reader will get to make.
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
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I'd like to see some statistic on how often it is used -- my guess is not much because most objectors don't want *other* people seeing content they object to, while they are also inherently curious as to what it is.
I'm curious about the top 5 or 10 most muted... lol
But, that would just end up being used as a scorecard for the most trolly of trolls.
I went on Parler. Everyone loved my stuff, much of it copied from my remarks here. I am getting a lot of followers. 20% are beautiful, conservative women. It is pretty boring.
I am spending more time with the awful people here, idiots, deniers, anti-Semites, rent seeking fraudsters, nasty, ill mannered dunderheads who cut class in high school, and know shit.
Does Mute User also Mute the Muter to the User? I have not heard from Queenie for a while. It was the only one actually stupid enough to reply to me. I miss it.
I like it. A lot. I’m not a huge commenter here, but it makes the comments a much more pleasant place to visit, when I choose to do so.
Agreed. So far, I have muted one commenter, and threads are much easier to read now.
Best thing since sliced bread.
It is very nice being able to get rid of the spammed comments about making money if only you'd ...
Agreed. I've used it (so far) exclusively for the spammers. It's not quite as good as an actual anti-spam solution but it's worlds better than the nothing we had before.
But even among the people I haven't muted (and who apparently haven't been muted by lots of others), it's toned down the hyperbole and made the comments more, well, reasoned.
it’s toned down the hyperbole and made the comments more, well, reasoned.
Agreed. My theory is that a desire for attention motivates gratuitous personal attacks or attempts to inflame the dialogue, and extremes in that regard can suddenly be counterproductive.
"spammed comments "
I've never seen one here.
Nor have I.
Yeah I've never seen one in Volokh but I see them all over every other Reason article. Weird.
I don't read much outside Volokh, that's the reason I'm here. You see the spammers in other articles on Reason.
I joined because I perceived a high quality of engagement. I was thinking about abandoning this forum It seemed to have deteriorated by the efforts of a few posters, but with the mute I'm much more comfortable.
As others have said, they're much more common on other Reason threads. But I'd estimate I've seen and flagged maybe two or three dozen on Reason/VC threads. All of the "get rich working from home" variety.
I missed the feature from the WaPo days. I muted one person there.
I have muted one person here. Unsurprisingly, its the same person. Its my intent to only use it for him but I appreciate the feature.
If only I could guess who????
Bob. Was it me? I am interested in knowing if the Muter is muted from the User as well. I can see your remark.
My experience with reading comment threads has been improved significantly by muting two commenters. It's much easier to see the actual arguments now.
And my perception is that those two commenters have reduced their activity, possibly because they're getting much less engagement with (what I perceive to be) their trolling.
I don't plan to use it much, I've muted a spammer, and one particularly annoying antisemite. Had to think about that one, but I couldn't recall that he'd ever said anything interesting. Oh, and I'm considering muting one of my "betters"...
I'd never mute somebody just because I disagreed with them, they'd have to be either a spammer, or Hihn levels of annoying.
It would be nice if there were an accessible list of who you'd muted, so you could keep track of it, though.
Won't mute anyone.
My eyes can ignore just as easy.
Besides, even junk postings can be thought provoking, i.e. how can I refute this.
I agree, I can ignore comments I choose to without muting.
"even junk postings can be thought provoking"
There are several commenters who post basically the exact same shitty spam every time they post. It's much more relaxing to be able to turn them off. And, you can unmute them at any time.
After the 1 millionth time of Artie/KAR/"Lung Flute"/Misek/Behar, it's clear that there is nothing to refute, no thought to be provoked, and no brain cells used in the making of their posts. Disagreement isn't worth muting, shitty spam is delightful to shut up.
I rather enjoy his pithy rants about lawyers. A good chunk of lawyering is evolved defense against government with honed rules, but another chunk is raw financial seeking.
A company I used to work for has two handrails on their grand staircase in the lobby, one a few inches higher than the other. I have little doubt some lawfirm, in accordance with some regulatory act, got $8000 out of pointing out the handrail was too low. Or too high. Or something.
Anyway, I never block anyone as that is a sign of intellectual weakness and fragility.
(Not completely true. About 4 or 5 times in my life I've blocked gold farm spammers in online games.)
Unlikely to have been a lawyer who measured the handrails. Either it was a building inspector, or they hired an architect to do an ADA or building code compliance inspection. And architects or engineers likely had more input into the building code or ADA regulation than any lawyers.
I was thinking their Worker's Comp Insurance Company -- it's not unheard of for them to do "risk reduction" inspections for companies seeking to lower their premiums.
Or OSHA -- it is a "workplace" and if someone got hurt and they had to go chat with management about it -- well, I wouldn't cite them but I'd say "folks, if my boss ever comes out here..."
I've also seen double railings as a design style -- not required but to give a psychological appearance of security. A "grand" staircase, likely with significant dropoff, yes, I can see this.
Lawyers had a lot to do with the regulations. And oh by the way there is an acceptable range of handrail heights. I'm an Architect.
Yes and no.
I say that as a former Section 8 (housing) inspector who was trying not to be an A-hole. The worst was when both landlord and tenant agreed to defer to *my* interpretation of the rules. Not fun...
The problem is that there are multiple sets of rules, which do not say the same thing. The first thing I insisted on was that we go to the Mass State Sanitary Code (105 CMR 410) instead of HUD's HQS because I didn't want to fight out the differences between the two, and HUD actually let us do that....
If you want to bluff and bully, it's easy -- if you want to be *right*, it isn't....
A good chuck of the legal community are mounting the attack that defense had to evolve against, don't forget them. Then there's the courtiers for the naked Emperor, devoting their time to rationalizing why the Constitution doesn't really mean anything that gets in the way of the government doing as it pleases.
Try rebutting me sometimes. My shit goes 10 layers deep.
No, and for the same reason I don't bother to refute people who believe in pink unicorns.
But reminding people that pixie dust and unicorn flatulence won't shore up the power grid is always fun....
Also true....
I do not mute anyone. I blame my libertarianism.
(Libertarian is my middle name.)
Long time lurker; created an account just so I can mute you.
Have fun on the soapbox.
I enjoy the ability to focus on the meaningful comments. It would be better to be able to ignore threads of comments following the ignored user’s comment because some otherwise intelligent people can’t resist feeding the trolls.
In your estimation are the trolls (1) the hard-right commenters or (2) those who occasionally leaven the right-wing content of this White, male, movement conservative blog with some mainstream commentary?
No bigger trolls in this country than the toxic lawyer profession taking our $trillion and returning nothig of value. Then, they are in failure for every self stated goal of every law subject, save one, rent seeking..
I was tempted but didn't issue a mute. Besides, I might miss something.
I also do not believe in censorship if I can help it. If it's a troll, I ignore it and go on. Maybe next time the writer will tap out something interesting.
I love the new feature. I had found some comment threads unreadable due to two particular commenters. Now I have muted them and the comments have become enjoyable again.
I am very appreciative of this new feature - I've been asking for it for awhile now. I read more and comment more now. I've muted three people, on both "sides" of typical divides. People who spend far, far more time insulting other people than saying anything meaningful.
It's lovely.
I've only muted two commenters, one on the left, and one on the right.
But there are a couple of commenters on some of the non-volokh threads that can easily run to 40 comments in meaningless back and forth about personal issues. I'll get to them when I see them.
It is a lovely feature. In fact, I had always lurked but read comments. The ability to mute the person you referred to in your article is actually why I bothered registering in the first place. I've even made a few comments since.
I enjoy the feature - one thing I especially like is the ability to easily unmute someone. I've also noted that it appears that some of the more annoying posters seem to have toned it down.
I think I've muted 3 people plus a few spammers.
When is the comment preview feature coming?
Love it. I needed it to mute only two commentators. Perhaps the same two others muted.
It is a winner in my book. Muted just the one person. His every post consists of personal insults and barely concealed homophobic rants.
Do people who are muted get some sort of indication that someone has muted them?
I was wondering that too.
No, unless the person who mutes you chooses to say so.
I think it's a very good feature and well implemented. Don't really use it myself though.
I love the new feature. I've only directly used it once, but just by existing it creates new incentives both not to troll and not to respond to trolls. I compare it to crossing a state line into a state with sensible speed limits -- everybody's driving etiquette suddenly gets much nicer. Thanks very much to whomever is responsible!
I've muted two people, one of whom comments rarely, the other far too often, and too repetitively.
It has improved my experience.
Haven't used it yet and probably won't. But if I were going to, my top two mutees would match the description of yours. I wonder if they're the same people. Is your infrequent commenter older than he used to be?
I'm older than I used to be. Barring a COVID comeuppance or a terminally unfortunate pattern of meteor strikes, I hope to be able to say the same thing again next week.
True, obviously, as it is with all of us. But there's only one commenter I'm aware of who incorporates it into his screen name.
Works ok, I guess, I don't really use it much.
But I'm a little surprised that no one else has commented, I would have thought people would have some thoughts on this.
Funny one!
I find it quite useful and am interested in hearing what others have to say about it. I'm surprised a post this old doesn't have any other comments, though.
TwelveInchPianist is a mother fucker.
I don't need a mute function for that -- I've heard far worse (trust me).
But I *will* use my free speech rights to say that what you wrote is inappropriate. Even if you are somehow attempting to address a larger issue (e.g. my thoughts of a swatsticker on my face diaper), it isn't appropriate. Really isn't helpful. Etc...
And that is my opinion....
woosh
Whose mother? With a 12 incher down there that woman is in for one heck of a ride...
I have a short list and it has improved my experience.
I think it's a big improvement (almost as big as an edit button would be). My two suggestions are:
1. Mute (or give the option to mute) all reponses to a muted commenter as well. This would be best in conjunction with
2. Give an option to read an individual muted comment without unmuting the commenter altogether and refreshing the page.
I would like your #2. I don't see much of a benefit from #1 -- I've muted only one person, with a history of very repetitive comments, so it's usually pretty easy to either infer what they said from responses... or conclude that they don't have anything interesting to say because there are no responses to a muted comment. But I don't find responses to muted comments to be distracting or annoying.
It pretty easy and quick to unmute and remute someone if you see a response that makes you curious or you just want to do a sanity check.
Which goes to my point above -- people are going to wonder what the person said....
Not if they always say the same thing all the time, which is why they were muted in the first place.
It's a win.
My use case: a post is a couple of days old, and has 200 comments. I use the browser search box to search for 'May.18' and see there are 40 from today. When I next look, I see there are 60 from today ... but when I wade through all 200 to find the 20 new ones, they are all from very prolific but low quality posters - I just wasted my time. With the new scheme, the muted comments don't contain the date string, so when I reload the page, the search box still only finds the 60 unmuted comments from today, so I don't have to waste time. I was just stopping reading posts after a while, because the reward/effort ratio was getting unfavorable.
Like others, I'm not muting anyone because I disagree with their policy choices. Those are the best comments - comments I already agree with are boring :-).
I remember a generally higher level of discourse back in the pre-WaPo days, and hope this helps to resurrect those days.
Those halcyon pre-WaPo days are as dead and gone as the principled GOP.
I've only used it once so far, for someone who was making frequent and very LONG obnoxious comments. Short ones I can skip over easily, but these were taking up time scrolling through. It's easier now. It's not a huge change, because I still see people quoting those comments to respond, but it's at least not so much to scroll through.
Hmm, the modal number of commenters muted seems to be two. I wonder if everyone has the same two.
My guess is a lot of people are muting Arthur and the dude with the lawyer fetish. But I suspect there's also a tribal division, on side of which people are muting Arthur +1, the other side Behar +1. It's the +1s I'm curious about.
Arthur's postings feel like they are of such a character that I can't imagine those agreeing with his apparent politics would enjoy reading them either. He is a garden variety troll, and mute may be the end of him as I'd guess he thrives off of reactions. He is my current sole mute. Behar's stuff is quite wacky too, but has a bit more variety to it (I've not muted him yet, but expect I'll get around to it). He reads more like a crank than a troll, but kinda hard to tell.
A one note crank. It's amazing how many people get to the same two from starting from the left and right.
I've muted everyone except myself, and I'm probably going to mute myself eventually as well, unless I come up with better material.
It is an extension of the vertical dashed lines that let you scroll the minute you recognize a nonsense post, and get to the next 'real' post/response set quickly.
Yes. Improved experience. Just muted the one that is a one note polka. No desire to mute those that differ from my opinion.
I like the feature - although I've only muted two commentators as of yet and haven't been tempted to mute anyone else since. One I muted appears to be a man of the cloth and the other's name always reminds me of a wood stain that I used to stain furniture as a kid (I didn't mute either of them for their screen names or for the same reason).
I would really like to mute the entire thread below a muted comment as well, although a "collapse children" option on all comments would meet most of my needs.
It would be nice if a "flag comment" for spam would actually do something as I really don't have a need to make money from home.
Perhaps once a comment gets enough "flags", weighted somehow as described below, it disappears to all but the poster who can challenge the flag. If the poster challenges the flag, then a moderator could rule on the post.
If the flag is removed on challenge, the post reappears and those who flagged it would have their 'flag' votes devalued (perhaps even ignored for a couple of months). Those whose flagging activity virtually never results in a successful challenge over both a long period of time and the recent time would result in their flags having substantially enhanced weight. Posts by commenters who have a high percentage of their posts flagged and don't successfully challenge them could have a much lower threshold of weighted flag votes to "disappear" them (perhaps just a single flag by a well performing "flagger").
Flags by new users, those that get flagged a lot, and those that don't access the comment section ("Show Comments") often would have very low weight (probably flags for new users shouldn't have any effect for the first three months or so.
Sounds complicated...I like everyone having their own personal, curated set of visible posts.
I want a collapse thread button too.
It's great. The number of comments on each post seems to have decreased by about a third, yet the discussions are much more thoughtful and enjoyable.
I can skim and skip things without muting them, so I don't use it. If you can't handle just seeing comments you don't like, it's a bit pathetic. None of these comments make any meaningful difference anyway. At the end of the day, it's strangers in one tiny corner of the planet, online, sharing their opinions.
If you can’t handle just seeing comments you don’t like, it’s a bit pathetic
I felt exactly the same. I'm a big boy, and words don't hurt me. But I thought, what the heck. Its easy to use, I'll try it out.
I go back A day later and scrolling through I come across a muted comment....What? Oh yea, I forgot I had muted one commenter. wondered what he had to say and opened the comment, and sure enough, the same comment he always posts. Turned mute back on and haven't looked back.
Now a muted comment makes me smile.
Same 🙂 If people would just stop replying to him, it would be even easier to not notice his existence.
I'm glad to have the option, but I haven't used it yet. I've never used the option in any format (killfiles, etc.) except for actual spam. There's only one poster here who is prolific enough, content-free enough, and humorless enough, that I'd consider using it on him, but I have held off.
If I could mute Josh Blackman I would be able to see all the OPs that interest me in a more compact lineup—and they wouldn't go diving off the active list so fast.
It's very good. I muted a bunch of people on just one post, and it's been pacific everywhere else from then on.