The Return of COVID Mandates?
Join Reason on YouTube and Facebook at 1 p.m. Eastern this Thursday for a discussion with Aaron Kheriaty, author of The New Abnormal about the persistent COVID mandates for K-12 schools, college campuses and health care settings.
It's back-to-school season, and for some parts of the country, that means dealing with COVID restrictions again. Americans are no longer experiencing indefinite school closures or ubiquitous masking, but intermittent school closures, temporary mask mandates, and COVID vaccine requirements persist.
Will it ever end? Or are we in "the new abnormal?"
That's what Aaron Kheriaty, a psychiatrist and fellow and director of the Program in Bioethics and American Democracy at the Ethics and Public Policy Center, argued in his 2022 book, The New Abnormal: The Rise of the Biomedical Security State. Kheriaty worked at the University of California, Irvine for almost 15 years, both as a professor and director of UCI Health's Medical Ethics Program, until he was fired for challenging the school's COVID vaccine mandate. He's also a plaintiff in the Missouri v. Biden lawsuit, which alleges that the federal government coerced social media companies into censoring legally protected speech during the pandemic.
Join Reason's Zach Weissmueller and Liz Wolfe for a discussion with Kheriaty on all these topics this Thursday at 1 p.m. Eastern on Reason's YouTube channel.
Sources referenced in this conversation:
ABC News: "School districts in Kentucky, Texas cancel classes amid 'surge' of illnesses including COVID"
Bloomberg: "Covid Mask Mandate at Elementary School Draws Ire of Some Republicans"
Reason: "The University of Michigan Will Force Students With COVID To Leave Campus"
Cochrane Library: "Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses."
American College Health Association report on campus vaccine mandates and COVID policies
Reason: "A Federal Judge Blocks California's Ban on Medical Advice That Promotes COVID-19 'Misinformation'"
Aaron Kheriaty in The Wall Street Journal: "University Vaccine Mandates Violate Medical Ethics"
Aaron Kheriaty's lawsuit against the University of California, Irvine
5th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling in Missouri v. Biden
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So is anybody arguing on the side of 'it's time to fire up the woodchippers'? Or are we just going to whine and grouse about these sadistic bastards with their totalitarian control boners showing as they stomp our faces into the pig slop some more?
>> is anybody arguing
authors or commenters?
I've been arguing that for over 3 years.
I would also accept having them strung up on a gas station gantry.
They can try, I won’t be complying.
>>Or are we in "the new abnormal?"
here's an idea: stop voting for tyrants.
Just because the tyrants are in control doesn't mean we voted for them.
the idiots who keep voting for them keep voting for them. authors included.
Some of the tyrants want to keep on re-erecting themselves using "theories" of "stolen erections". I'm not sure HOW many lying lawyers, and how much perjury and Viagra this is gonna take! I say let's take away their Viagra for starters! If that's not-twat quite enough, let's move on to collaring Spermy Daniels and putting out some calls for Pro-Boner work from the GOOD GUY (non-lying) lawyers! Send lawyers, guns, and money, the shit has hit the fan!
Poor Sqrlsy.
It must be lonely being a libertarian for government regulation, corporatism, censorship, graft, political prosecution, imprisoning dissenters and spying on the citizenry.
Poor Marxist Mammary-Misek the Miserable Death-Loving, Adolf-Adoring, Hitler-Humping Power Pig for POWER at ALL costs!!!
It might be lonely for You, after You Perfectly attain the suicides of ALL of the people who make You look bad, by being smarter and better-looking than You, Oh Perfect One! Who, besides You, will be left?
He makes 50 cents a post though. He’s living large!
I've just now fingered Spermy Daniels... Someone else pitch in and collar her? A collar will probably cunstitute enough ruff-ruff restraints, especially if the collar has those bulldog-type spikes! The kinkier the spikes, the better! Whips and chains? Optional... They might be overkill in this case...
Your style of arguing and presenting information is just so persuasive! Its a wonder you haven't converted your detractors to your points of view!
How do you know that I haven't succeeded? Have you even conducted a statistically signifi-cunt poll?
Despite zero evidence that any of it accomplishes anything good, people still doing their bizarre mask rituals. Individuals who do it, fine. They are mentally ill and deserve some pity. Officials still doing this shit are just fucking evil.
In surgery rooms, surgeons and their assistants wear masks all of the time. So they are mentally ill and deserve some pity?
Surgeons wear masks to prevent spittle, dead skin, sweat, skin mites, skin fungus, molds and bacteria from getting into the wound. Not virons, because they are too small to be contained.
It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant you are.
Wearing masks to prevent spittle, dead skin, sweat, skin mites, skin fungus, molds and bacteria from getting into the wound? Clear evidence of a surgeon’s mental insanity and a need to be pitied! It also shows that we need “Team R” LIBERTARIAN HERO governors to issue MANDATES that employers (such ass hospitals) may NOT issue mask-wearing mandates to surgeons! Pity the mentally ill surgeons, yes! But do not ENCOURAGE their mental illnesses!
(Hospital surgery customers who would LIKE to select hospitals where surgeons are REQUIRED to wear masks? Such greedy, biased, irrational power-pig customer can go and fuck themselves!)
What if surgeons wearing masks ends up making outcomes worse overall? Based on the current available evidence, it is quite possible that that is the case.
"Wearing masks to prevent spittle, dead skin, sweat, skin mites, skin fungus, molds and bacteria from getting into the wound? Clear evidence of a surgeon’s mental insanity and a need to be pitied!"
Look at you pretending that the ignorant idea that they could stop something as small as virons wasn't the actual issue with Covid masking.
I don't think you're even fooling yourself with that toddler-tier sophistry.
"...wasn’t the actual issue with Covid masking."
At the root... Should Government Almighty be able to SHUT OFF my choices as a consumer, to pick a surgery clinic or a shopping establishment that makes THE CHOICES OF THE BUSINESS that cater to MY wants? I want masks and-or vaccines to PROTECT me and mine! (In times of crisis especially.) WHY should Government Almighty override my choices, be they (my choices) rational or irrational? If I prefer Catholicism to being Mennonite, twat is shit to YOU, Oh Perv-fect Great Twat? If I prefer masking over non-masking... Ditto question, Perv-fect Power Pig!
Don't change the topic. You were claiming masks stop viruses.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449
Can face masks help slow the spread of the virus that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)?
Yes. When used with measures such as getting vaccinated, hand-washing and physical distancing, wearing a face mask slows how quickly the virus that causes COVID-19 spreads.
"Doctor Mammary-Farter-Fuhrer" knows BETTER than the mayoclinic, 'cause Her Perfect Twat is ass full of mayo-like SPERMS ass the twat of Spermy Daniels!!! The SheMale with the most moistest mayo-like SPERMS wins!!!!
But it still spreads.
Yes, bullshit still spreads! Always!
Hey Mammary-Misek-the-Miserable clone!
Why? They didn’t work. Neither the injection or the masks stopped transmission or infection.
Yet SOME businesses required employees and customers to MASK? OMG, the HORRORS!!!!
BECAUSE THEY OWN THEIR OWN BUSINESSES!!! If they want to exclude all customers who do not dye all of their hair green, they should be free to do so. And if I feel like shopping ONLY where all hair is colored green… THAT is what “freedom” looks like! … Also “stopped transmission” perfectly? No! Has modern medical care prevented all deaths? No! So then Perfect Idiots like YOU should argue for outlawing modern medical care!
PS, the only sensible requirement here is “no fraud via false advertising”. Do NOT put up a sign saying “all hair colors are admitted freely here” and then exclude ALL but the green-haired customers! That is fraud and wasting my time by lying! Just like YOU waste people’s time by lying, oh Great Perfect Queen of Internet Cesspools!
Why are you lying and saying I said businesses can't require masks? I never said that.
And Zeb said "Officials still doing this shit". He never said anything about "THEIR OWN BUSINESSES".
You're the one who switched the discussion from public to private because your a dishonest troll and authoritarian government apologist.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/29/texas-gov-abbott-doubles-down-against-covid-health-limits.html
Texas Gov. Abbott threatens fines again against local officials and businesses that enforce mask mandates, vaccine requirements
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott issued an executive order Thursday, reiterating his opposition to mask mandates, Covid-related business restrictions and vaccination requirements and issuing fines of up to $1,000 on those who fail to comply.
Note "...fines again against local officials and businesses...".
Fuck off and die.
That really doesn't do much either. There have been studies showing better outcomes without surgeons wearing masks. Reasons why that would be are unclear, but it does at least show that it probably doesn't matter. Even in medicine, people do a lot of things just because that's how they do it and not because there is any evidence that it does any good.
Does religion (net-net) do more harm or more good? I've never heard of data-driven analysis (let alone double-blind experiments) to thoroughly analyze this question. Yet "religious freedom" remains sacrosanct in western societies!
Why should religious freedom enjoy such a high pedestal, while "mask freedom" (including the freedom to select businesses such as surgical hospitals, which mandate that surgeons wear masks) be forced to suck hind titty? I say "yes" to ALL irrational (or rational) freedoms, to span medicine as well as religion! Harping on the exact "science" of mask-wearing misses this MAJOR point!
So you're saying masking is a religious ritual for you.
You know, I think that everyone here already realized that.
So what if it is? Do YOU (Oh Perfect Christian Theologian and Advocate of Suicide) believe that SUICIDE should be the preferred religious ritual for all of us, excluding Perfect Theologians like YOU? Who apparently has SNOT yet practiced twat She preaches? (Not that I think that You should... You should TURN TO THE LIGHT, Oh Perfect Servant and Serpent of the Evil One, and turn Your Perfect HIND-SIDE to the worshit of death and destruction! Shit does SNOT lead to Your Perv-fect Happy Place!)
Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrer, Supreme Demonic Director of Decay, Destruction, and Death, will now SPEAK! HARKKK silently and RESPECTFULLY, all ye lowly heathens, as She Directs Death, and announces WHICH few of us MIGHT deserve to live, and WHO all deserves to DIE-DIE-DIE!!!
https://reason.com/2022/01/25/did-these-three-officers-willfully-deprive-george-floyd-of-his-constitutional-rights/?comments=true#comment-9323626
“You should really join ᛋᛋqrlsy, ᛋᛋhrike. You two goosestepping fascists offing yourselves would definitely be a mitzvah.”
-Quote MammaryBahnFuhrer the "Expert Christian Theologian", AKA Mother’s Lament, with a head full of cement
Don’t change the topic. You were claiming masks are your religious sacrament.
If I did claim that... Twat gives YOU (Oh Perv-fected Christian Theologian) the rights to ovary-rule my choices and beliefs? Your Perv-fected FAKE ovaries, perhaps, Ye Perv-Fected SheMale? HOW MUCH POWER is enough for YE, Oh Ye with the Unquenchable Power Thirst? Too much is never enough!!! Give it UP, Bitch!
Religion is, almost by definition, not evidence based. Medicine, I think most people would like to be evidence based. If masks were shown to lead to worse outcomes in surgery, I don't think many hospitals would want to cater to your mask obsession. As it is, the evidence isn't very strong either way, and most surgeons do wear masks, so you don't have much to worry about and I'm not suggesting hospitals should start forbidding or discouraging the practice. My point is that just because something seems like it should help doesn't mean it's reasonable to assume that it does if there isn't any strong evidence.
No governor (or other political big-wig) in western society will say "Our data shows that Catholic Priests are more effective than Buddhist Lamas, so we're forbidding church-mosque-temple employers from picking Buddhist Lamas over Catholic Priests". This would be anti-freedom insanity! Yet many "Team R" anti-maskers can NOT see the insanity when "Team R" governors do the same, MANDATING belief in anti-masking over masking!!!! THIS is the ARROGANT insanity taking over, here!
The simple question then is WHY does religious freedom VASTLY out-rank medical freedom?
Religious freedom is explicitly protected in the constitution. And if you ask me, religious freedom should protect not only sincere religious belief and practice, but anything that could possibly be a legitimate religious practice, including wearing a mask because you are afraid of a virus.
I am not proposing that it should be illegal for a business to mandate masks. But that it's just stupid superstitious bullshit that people should object to. I can't get worked up about bans on requiring masks for employees because governments already regulate the fuck out of the employer/employee relationship. Total freedom for private busineses to act as they see fit is not an option that is on the table at the moment.
"I am not proposing that it should be illegal for a business to mandate masks."
Hooray for you! Sad to say, several "Team R" governors see things differently...
Oh? Which ones?
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/desantis-calls-permanent-ban-covid-mask-vaccine-mandates/story?id=96504045
DeSantis calls for permanent ban on COVID mask and vaccine mandates. Here’s what that means
DeSantis signed previous bans, but they were set to expire in July.
https://www.sacurrent.com/news/gov-greg-abbott-says-no-mask-mandates-in-texas-amid-rising-covid-cases-32491300
Gov. Greg Abbott says 'no mask mandates in Texas' amid rising COVID cases
Previously mis-placed comment...
If I did claim that… Twat gives YOU (Oh Perv-fected Christian Theologian) the rights to ovary-rule my choices and beliefs? Your Perv-fected FAKE ovaries, perhaps, Ye Perv-Fected SheMale? HOW MUCH POWER is enough for YE, Oh Ye with the Unquenchable Power Thirst? Too much is never enough!!! Give it UP, Bitch!
DeSatan Knows Best, for all of us little peons!
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/desantis-calls-permanent-ban-covid-mask-vaccine-mandates/story?id=96504045
DeSantis calls for permanent ban on COVID mask and vaccine mandates. Here’s what that means
DeSantis signed previous bans, but they were set to expire in July.
Abbot’s mask mandate ban only covers government and government funded organizations like schools. Why are you lying about it?
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/29/texas-gov-abbott-doubles-down-against-covid-health-limits.html
Texas Gov. Abbott threatens fines again against local officials and businesses that enforce mask mandates, vaccine requirements
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott issued an executive order Thursday, reiterating his opposition to mask mandates, Covid-related business restrictions and vaccination requirements and issuing fines of up to $1,000 on those who fail to comply.
I wonder if those masks serve a different and more specific purpose...
Oh yeah, they do...
During the Delta wave in 2021 DeSantis strongly suppressed wearing masks, including him in video hollering at students demanding they take of their masks. Comparing Florida with a State which has adopted wearing masks, we see Florida's death toll is catastrophic compared to New York State in the Delta wave. https://politicsofthelastage.blogspot.com/2022/08/floridas-covid-19-catastrophe.html
Vaccines don't explain this because Florida's vaccination rate was only a little less than New York State's, and the analysis adjusted for the difference in age distributions.
contra parietem
At this rate, they're going to have played out all the virtue-signalling and BLM-covering that mask mandates could possibly effect *well* before Nov. '24.
Man, that was the fastest turn around from "it's not happening" we've seen yet.
Reason doesn't always have a libertarian take. But when they do they are 4 years late.
Lock us down and throw away the key. Best days of my life were sitting around doing nothing with the kids during Covid. The streets were barren except for an occasional mostly peaceful riot. Which meant I stayed in even more. It was amazing .
It may be fine for you, but it's miserable for someone who is single, or who has friends.
You are welcome to find a job where you can work remote all the time. Leave the rest of us who want to live life like normal human beings out of it.
Nothing is stopping you from being a lazy entitled defilect. Oh. You want us to fund your laziness.
I'm anxious to see what Reason's position will be on the subject this time.
Have to wait until the NYT establishes its narrative.
If I did claim that... Twat gives YOU (Oh Perv-fected Christian Theologian) the rights to ovary-rule my choices and beliefs? Your Perv-fected FAKE ovaries, perhaps, Ye Perv-Fected SheMale? HOW MUCH POWER is enough for YE, Oh Ye with the Unquenchable Power Thirst? Too much is never enough!!! Give it UP, Bitch!
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/desantis-calls-permanent-ban-covid-mask-vaccine-mandates/story?id=96504045
DeSantis calls for permanent ban on COVID mask and vaccine mandates. Here's what that means
DeSantis signed previous bans, but they were set to expire in July.
During the Delta wave in 2021 DeSantis strongly suppressed wearing masks, including him in video hollering at students demanding they take of their masks. Comparing Florida with a State which has adopted wearing masks, we see Florida's death toll is catastrophic compared to New York State in the Delta wave. https://politicsofthelastage.blogspot.com/2022/08/floridas-covid-19-catastrophe.html
Vaccines don't explain this because Florida's vaccination rate was only a little less than New York State's, and the analysis adjusted for the difference in age distributions.
The wave was so terrible people literally fled from NY to FL to avoid it. Oh, wait...
COVID is back? Let's see, that means:
1. The Establishment worries that Trump could regain the White House.
2. In a more general sense, the election managers decided that voting works best with lockdowns.
3. After only one week, teachers have had it with kids (and themselves) in classrooms.
4. Something big is coming, and they need to distract the public.
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