Should We Have Open Borders? A Soho Forum Debate
The Cato Institute's Alex Nowrasteh and attorney Francis Menton debate immigration policy.
HD DownloadThe Cato Institute's Alex Nowrasteh and attorney Francis Menton debate the resolution, "The U.S. should have free immigration except for those who pose a security threat or have a serious contagious disease."
Taking the affirmative is Nowrasteh, the director of economic and social policy studies at the Cato Institute where most of his work has focused on immigration. He's the co-author (with Benjamin Powell) of Wretched Refuse?: The Political Economy of Immigration and Institutions. A native of Southern California, Nowrasteh received a master's degree in economic history from the London School of Economics.
Taking the negative is Menton who writes at manhattancontrarian.com and was a litigation partner at Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP before retiring in December 2015 after more than 40 years with the firm.
The debate was held at New York City's Sheen Center and hosted by The Soho Forum, which receives fiscal sponsorship from Reason Foundation, the nonprofit that publishes Reason.
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A bad poem on a hand me down statue is not an immigration policy.
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This should be entertaining.
No, that would be insane. Next question?
Go back to Africa, where humans first evolved, you invasive species you! Because I, the GREAT "Nativist" Authoritarian (plus my dog-pile, ARF-ARF-ARF!!!) said so!
Out of Africa is passé.
The archeogenetic revolution of the last decade shows that,
1. Neanderthals and Denisovans are both subspecies of H. sapien, and
2. H. sapien sapien made several migrations into Eurasia in the last 200,000 years, each time mating with H. halibus, H. erectus, Neanderthals, Denisovans and other archaics before going back into Africa, and
3. all Eurasians have Neanderthal introgression and all Asians also have Denisovan introgression, both subspecies having evolved in Eurasia and not Africa.
Why are all your links, references and conventional wisdom always decades out of date?
Humans have been evolving ALL OVER THE GLOBE in the last few hundred years! So have horses!
The ROOT stock for modern humans comes out of Africa! Catch up, willya? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_African_origin_of_modern_humans
If in the next 20 years, we breed some house-cats on the Moon, will you say that cats are from the Moon?
And if you would have actually read the Wikipedia article you would have found everything I just wrote inside it.
"There were at least several "out-of-Africa" dispersals of modern humans, possibly beginning as early as 270,000 years ago, including 215,000 years ago to at least Greece,[11][12][13] and certainly via northern Africa and the Arabian Peninsula about 130,000 to 115,000 years ago.[20] There is evidence that modern humans had reached China around 80,000 years ago.[21] Practically all of these early waves seem to have gone extinct or retreated back...
The most significant "recent" wave out of Africa took place about 70,000–50,000 years ago,[7][8][25][26][24] via the so-called "Southern Route", spreading rapidly along the coast of Asia and reaching Australia by around 65,000–50,000 years ago...
In the 2010s, studies in population genetics uncovered evidence of interbreeding that occurred between H. sapiens and archaic humans in Eurasia, Oceania and Africa,[34][35][36] indicating that modern population groups, while mostly derived from early H. sapiens, are to a lesser extent also descended from regional variants of archaic humans.
Why did you link without reading it?
This is like Section 230 or spike proteins all over again.
So then when humans start breeding on the Moon (or Uranus), you will say that they come from the Moon (or Uranus)! "Invasive species" is a meaningless concept, according to Marxist Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrer, THE Perfect Queen of the Internet Cesspools, AND of the Language Manglers!
Go BACK to Uranus, You Perfectly Foul-Smelling product of, and invasive species from, Uranus!
I miss Agile Cyborg.
You miss not being fat.
No he doesn't. He remains drunk to forget and therefore never misses anything.
He’s still stupid fat, and drunk.
Agreed.
An expert on immigration vs a random yutz blogger. It would have been nice if a transcript had been provided tho.
Experts have served us so well so far.
They kinda are.
And it’s working out great!
"And it’s working out great!"
…for the invaders. Not so well for US citizens.
“The Trump agenda is not worth anything to Republicans if Trump’s the one trying to execute it because he’s proven he didn’t know how to get things done,” Christie said on CNN.
.
“He didn’t know how to build the wall,” the former governor continued. “He didn’t repeal or replace Obamacare. He added $6 trillion to the national debt, after he said he was gonna balance the budget in four years.”
WTF? A Republican telling the truth? This will not end well.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4118447-christie-trump-has-proven-he-didnt-know-how-to-get-things-done/
"This will not end well."
If it ends in Trump NOT getting re-erected... AND nothing WORSE than Trump gets erected, by the "Stolen Erections"... I will consider it a Happy Ending! (Looking for Happy Endings here, I am!!! Maybe the Lizard People will actually HELP us for once? We can always hope!)
Are you two going to vote Christie now that he's heavily appealing to the pedo/insane vote in a big way?
I will. Georgia has an open primary.
I want to see a good Sumo smackdown between Donnie and Christy.
I gotta be honest - my money is on the fatter one.
I bet you like fat kids.
They last longer, though every kid is skin and bones by the time they enter the shredder.
so you're saying you prefer a more republican Republican? just checking
Hilarious - you quote Christie and try to derive something truthful from it?
Help is available...
Could they not find a better or otherwise more interested party to debate the negative?
Talk about a disparity of talent.
many people, especially liberals, often conflate "open borders" with "extremely permissive immigration policy" which are in fact two different things.
Conflating the two serves a very specific purpose. Most of the useful idiots dont understand what's going on but the puppet masters do.
Wingnuts have the hardest time with "open borders". They say Old Joe has an "open borders policy" yet they are smuggled in via trucks, sneak across the river, and enter via asylum.
Or they're just lying.
Most likely the latter.
Two states built barriers along their borders to stop the flood of illegals.
The Biden DOJ sued to remove them.
It’s not a border crisis. It’s a plan.
Buttplug wants all of those kids.
you proved my point you stupid useful idiot
Stupid? Yes.
Useful? Seems spurious.
You seem to have a fascination with the truth. That's doubtlessly because you have no notion of what it might be.
Cato Institute's Alex Nowrasteh
London School of Economics
According to Mothers Lament this guy is a socialist.
Yes.
Just because Koch hires you to be a self-described "radical" advocate for open borders to and from the United States, doesn't mean you've stopped being a socialist.
Globalism was always one of socialism aims.
Huh...
ML is never going to give up this stupid argument because he will never admit he is wrong in front of the people he hates.
"Everyone who graduates from LSE is a socialist because the school was founded by socialists" is just as dumb as the claim of "Everyone who graduates from Harvard is a religious nutjob because Harvard was founded by a religious nutjob".
Socialism is all about the central planning, right? And yet, so-called 'open borders' is all about the LACK of central planning in controlling the migration of people across borders. So how can 'open borders' be compatible with socialism? Huh?
MIND. BLOWN.
Yep. All totalitarians want to take over the universe. It's a malignant cancer no matter what color lipstick the pig is wearing.
Nobody ever accused him of being overly bright.
Sarc and shrike weigh in on intelligence.
Ouch.
Mr. Fetal Alcohol Syndrome called me dumb. That's like having Forrest Gump and Benjamin Buford Blue casting shade.
"The U.S. should have free immigration except for those who pose a security threat or have a serious contagious disease."
That's not an open border. That's an arguably more open-er border, but that's still recognizing a border.
Oh, I like the "and have a serious contagious disease." Glad to see the glibertarians still maintaining the "my body my choice... except for COVID" disposition.
Welfare use is a disease.
How come reason never mentions the billions spent on illegal immigration for various programs. Never will reason discuss welfare before open borders despite any rational person understanding the link.
Oh, I like the “and have a serious contagious disease.” Glad to see the glibertarians still maintaining the “my body my choice… except for COVID” disposition.
You mean their (literally) "Don't say Monkeypox... or HIV" policy?
I'm pretty sure when Clinton lifted the HIV travel ban and/or Obama lifted the HIV partner ban, Reason cheered. Which dovetails nicely into the Reason round table discussion about "Should libertarians tell noble lies." Saying we'll stop people at the border for serious contagious diseases and then allowing HIV+ individuals in because it would be homophobic not to sounds exceedingly ignoble to me.
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Hunter Biden sold art to Elizabeth Hirsh Naftali, a Democratic donor appointed to a prestigious federal commission, three people directly familiar with Biden's account said.
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Yes, selling commissions really is an enormous scandal and just more proof that the Biden crime family was engaging in Pay To Play.
If you weren't a fifty-center you'd be horrified.
...but he hates both sides equally.
He totally does.
Watch as pluggo proves he isn’t partisan.
Do you go out of your way to intentionally ignore the evidence presented while pushing leftist narratives? Is it a choice? Or just retarded?
Unlike Jeffy, he's lazy and doesn't familiarize himself with the material before he posts it.
It's really hard to decide which clan of self-proclaimed libertarians are more stupid.
The Koch/Cato crowd or the Rothbard/Rockwell crowd. We need a debate between them
Why don’t you kill yourself, and libertarian Jesus can tell you.
What about the Lysenko/Mussolini crowd you are a part of?
Is the open border zealot going address the costs of immigration or is this another "money printer go brrr" policy proposal. If they were ever willing to tackle the difficult side I might have some faith in them. As it stands I just see someone looking to destroy Western civilization by any means possible.
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Reason, THIS is why we limit who can feed the homeless.
Well according to the Supreme Law; Someone has a JOB to prevent invasion. So the "open borders" crowd can go get a Constitutional Amendment or just STFU.
NO
state-mandated Open Borders would require trespassing laws to be violated IF that border property is privately owned!!
That idea ALL BY ITSELF requires the existence of a state to enforce it !!
As always, the choice between “open borders” and strict immigration policy is not the only option here. The obvious third option would be to allow anyone who wants to visit the United States for a week or a decade to enter legally through any of a number of legal entry points. This could not even remotely be considered to be “open borders” despite the narrative by xenophobes everywhere. A very few rules would be needed to almost completely eliminate the violent, disgusting mess we have now. A simple background check as people present themselves to ensure that they are not known criminals or people who have previously been deported for cause is a good idea. Requiring visitors to report their current address and occupation while in the United States is also reasonable. Checking arrivals for contagious diseases with quarantines and treatment as appropriate as a condition of entry makes a lot of sense. Of course visitors should not qualify for welfare benefits (except emergency medical care) and they should only be allowed to remain in the U.S. as long as they support themselves. There should be no law against working at any legal occupation they can find under any working conditions they find acceptable, organized labor narratives notwithstanding. The few remaining immigrants who continue to try to enter illegally would be much easier to manage with much less danger and abuse to everyone concerned.
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