Does the 1619 Project Have Anything To Teach Us? A Soho Forum Debate
Two historians go head-to-head on whether the controversial New York Times project has any value.
HD DownloadWoody Holton, a professor of history at the University of South Carolina, and Phillip Magness, director of research and education at the American Institute for Economic Research debate the resolution, "The New York Times book The 1619 Project, and the Hulu video series based on it, are important contributions to our understanding of slavery and the role of African Americans in American history."
The debate is being held at New York City's Sheen Center and hosted by The Soho Forum, which receives fiscal sponsorship from Reason Foundation, the nonprofit that publishes Reason.
Taking the affirmative is Holton, who is the author of Forced Founders: Indians, Debtors, Slaves and the Making of the American Revolution in Virginia (1999), which won the Organization of American Historians' Merle Curti Social History Award; Unruly Americans and the Origins of the Constitution, a finalist for the National Book Award; Abigail Adams, which won the Bancroft Prize; and Liberty is Sweet: The Epic of the American Revolution, which Holton wrote as the Huntington Library's Los Angeles Times Distinguished Fellow and as a National Endowment for the Humanities fellow.
Arguing against the resolution is Magness, the author of The 1619 Project: A Critique. He holds a Ph.D. and master's from George Mason University's School of Public Policy, and a bachelor's from the University of St. Thomas (Houston). Magness' work encompasses the economic history of the United States, with specializations in the economic dimensions of slavery and racial discrimination, the history of taxation, and measurements of economic inequality over time. In addition to his scholarship, Magness's writings have appeared in numerous venues including the Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, Newsweek, Politico, Reason, National Review, and the Chronicle of Higher Education.
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It's got a LOT to teach us about the New York Times.
I was going to say, sure it does...
The same way Mein Kampf, The Communist Manifesto, or The Jersey Shore have something to teach us.
Yup. Negative examples are still examples to learn from.
Son, if you can't succeed at life, perhaps you can set an example for others to avoid.
Yes..the cultural Marxists are an enemy of liberty and need to be defeated.
Breaking: Matt Taibbi threatened with prison.
Ballsy. She must be really pissed off about Twitter letting things into the wild. I wonder what she's losing from the exposure.
This is a normal thing that happens in a democracy. Not.
No.
Can 1619 teach is anything of history? No.
Can 1619 teach us about the power of propaganda, grievance and lies? Oh hell yes.
You say 'us' but are you Black? Are you benefitting in any way from this argument? Like Obama , Nikki supports a high-class non-Black life by complaining and posing
In 1911, Booker T. Washington wrote:
There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs-partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs.
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It teaches me that the New York Times is a propaganda rag with no respect at all for the truth.
It teaches me the pulitzer prize is now meaningless.
It teaches me a lot about 1930s Italy and Germany.
"It teaches me that the New York Times is a propaganda rag with no respect at all for the truth."
You should have known that since the 1930s when Walter Duranty covered up the Holodomor.
NY Times...cheered the largest lynching of Americans (Italian Americans), denied 10M killed in the genocide perpetrated by their heros Trotsky and Kaganovich, lied about WMD in Iraq leading to the death of millions of people in the middle east.
All in all the NYT is a foreign enemy to the American people. It always has been an old-world grievance paper pushing propaganda for an agenda that was never about liberty and what was good for American.
It teaches us that many of those who want something for nothing will stop at nothing to get something for nothing.
Does the 1619 Project Have Anything To Teach Us?
Many things. Among them that left wingers have completely corrupted academia and that people who call themselves liberal are wholly incapable of opposing. This is because their entire lives including their income and sense of self is driven by politics and thus the repercussions of being excluded by the left overrides any concern for principle or truth.
Until researchers examine and explain the fabulous wealth that African kings gained from the slave trade there will not be any answers about what actually happened. Until the very late 19th century it was essentially impossible for Europeans to survive in the parts of Africa where most of the slaves came from. Who then, was it that were going into the African interior and capturing the slaves? The African slave trade predated 1619 by centuries. When Bill Clinton in 1998 he was essentially apologizing to the descendants of people who enslaved and got rich by capturing and selling the people who were sent to the New World.
Here’s a good article on that topic.https://whyy.org/articles/africa-slavery-and-the-blame-game/
The slave trade in Africa didn’t explode until the Europeans gave it a push.
Not that I believe in reparations. I have some sympathy for affirmative action for those of low income (of any color).
The modern Slave trade started in the late middle ages with the need by the Muslim leaders demand for gold to fund military campaigns. Sub Sahara Kings had the gold and in return they were given horses which were not available in any large numbers. The African kings used the horses as a way to obtain military superiority over other African kings. This changed when the gold ran out. The only thing the African kings could trade for horses was captured soldiers, thus creating the modern slave trade. By the time the Portugese, Spanish, and Dutch started to explore Africa, this was the "commodity" the locals had to trade for "goods" and it was perfect for what was needed in the new world.
All that said, when slavery was abolished, the Federal Govt should have funded schools, vocational training and low interest loans to former slave (along with land from the Plantations). That would have been the rest kind of reparations.
Europeans only gave the slave trade a push because they arrived on the west coast of Africa at the same time as they were expanding into the new world and needed labor that they could not get through voluntary immigration from Europe.
The area where Europeans can be seriously faulted is that so many of them were willing to not just sanction a practice that had disappeared from Europe for centuries before but that there were among them so many intellectuals who were willing to write apologia on the behalf of the practitioners of this barbaric practice. These apologias were largely the source of the idea that the African race was inferior and needed to be protected from its base instincts etc are essentially the source of the racist ideas that carry on in highly marginalized sections of society into modern America.
Yep. Why aren’t African Americans demanding reparations from their family members who sold their ancestors into slavery?
You know why.
Why are these debate articles always split into two threads?
Umm, perhaps because a debate is supposed to have two sides.
OTOH, it is my belief that a debate can have many sides. EG, which of the many flavors of ice cream is the best.
But then, again, OTOOH (on the other, other hand) there may be other arguments where the true position is on one side or the other of two self-evidentially opposed positions. These are the questions that prove to be rather more intractable.
Holton’s vote went from 21.6% to 23% or +1.4%. Magness’ vote went from 37% to 59% (+22%). I guess the pro-1619 case fell short. Holton was quite aggressive, argumentative and seemed astounded that anyone could doubt the value to the work - not endearing qualities or a winning style.
This, and Holton’s attempt to pander to libertarians with his “4/20” comment in his opening remarks show me all I need to know about his intellectual depth and that of those he’s accustomed to propagandizing.
The 1619 project is a book that is meant to make you feel proud of being of slave-stock.
"Does the 1619 Project Have Anything To Teach Us? "
Absolutely. It teaches us that malicious propaganda will always be believed by some gullible people.