The Death of Walt Disney's Private Dream City?
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis wants to end a wildly successful half-century experiment in municipal governance.
HD DownloadOnce upon a time, a man named Walt wanted to build a city—nay, a kingdom—in Florida swampland.
In 1964, the Disney company began secretly purchasing 27,400 acres in small parcels and stitching them together to form a landmass roughly the size of Manhattan. Walt Disney wanted plenty of space to keep the type of tacky tourist shops that encircled Disneyland—plopped in the middle of Anaheim, California—from encroaching on his new kingdom.
"There's enough land here [in Central Florida] to hold all the ideas and plans we could possibly imagine," Disney said in a filmed presentation that was aired for local lawmakers as part of a bid to convince them that his extraordinary dream required extraordinary powers: Total control over the land so that politics couldn't interfere with Disney World's development.
The centerpiece of Disney's pitch was EPCOT, the Experimental Prototype City of Tomorrow, which a narrator in the presentation describes as a "dynamic, urban center" featuring a "variety of activities found only in metropolitan cities," which would eventually be home to 20,000 residents.
Though he passed away in 1966 before the plan came to fruition, Walt Disney got his wish. The year following his death, local lawmakers approved the creation of the Reedy Creek Improvement District, a remarkable experiment in private governance that has thrived for the past 55 years.
Enter Ron DeSantis.
"Disney should not run its own government," Florida's Republican governor said at an April 25 press conference.
In March, Disney CEO Bob Chapek issued an internal memo stating that the company opposed a law that was recently passed in Florida banning public school classroom discussion or instruction about sexual orientation and gender identity in grades K–3.
DeSantis, whose office didn't respond to our interview request, reacted by dissolving the Reedy Creek Improvement District as of June 1, 2023, which would bring this half-century experiment in semi-privatized governance to an end.
Walt Disney's project in Florida was in part inspired by the futuristic vision of the 1964 World's Fair, overseen by his personal friend, Robert Moses. The company had showcased future EPCOT attractions there, such as the People Mover and Carousel of Progress. It later hired the executive vice president of the World's Fair to oversee the construction of Disney World.
Disneyland California became "a social center, a center of national and international tourism," according to Austrian-born L.A.-based urban designer Victor Gruen, who was also the visionary behind the indoor shopping mall. He called it a prime example of cellular urbanism, where a dense pedestrian-friendly central business district is the "heart" of the city, with arteries running into it from the outer residential and recreational areas.
Walt Disney, who reportedly kept a copy of Gruen's book The Heart of Our Cities on hand, wanted his Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow to be a showcase of the first true cellular city.
"EPCOT will always be a showcase to the world or the ingenuity and imagination of American free enterprise," said Disney in his filmed presentation.
While EPCOT never became the functional city of 20,000 residents that the company had promised, the free rein that the Reedy Creek Improvement District gave Disney over the development of its land resulted in a city-sized network of attractions that have had a profound influence on urban planning.
Disney has inspired planned communities, not to mention competing theme parks, throughout Florida, which has more than 1,200 special governance districts.
The company built and maintains a vast transportation infrastructure, including a monorail system that carries about 150,000 guests a day connecting with a network of buses, shuttles, trams, cable cars, and boats to move guests between its four theme parks, two water parks, shopping and recreation centers, sports complex, campground, and more than 25 resort hotels.
Disney World's governance model was also influential as a strategy for dealing with the red tape endemic to local planning boards. Moses exemplified one model of circumventing local politics: He never held elected office, yet remade the landscape of New York through his control of the state's powerful public agencies, empowered to borrow money and seize land through eminent domain. And Moses had little accountability, so he bulldozed neighborhoods and nearly flattened Manhattan's SoHo with an expressway.
While Moses ran roughshod over established communities, Disney opted to build a new economy in Central Florida on mostly undeveloped land with his strategic real estate purchases and special district exempting him from the politics of zoning and land use regulation.
"We think the need is for starting from scratch on virgin land and building a special kind of new community," Walt Disney told Florida lawmakers in his presentation.
The result was a more effective model of governing land use: Because the Reedy Creek board is appointed and funded by a company with an incentive to create a highly functional design, the project met the needs of its customers, i.e., hundreds of thousands of daily guests visiting and lodging at the property while keeping costs in line.
"Disney has benefited from the Reedy Creek improvement district because it gets to control everything, says Richard Foglesong, author of Married to the Mouse: Walt Disney World and Orlando, the definitive history of the Disney corporation's relationship with Florida's government. "I call it 'the Vatican with mouse ears.'"
He says that the company's special jurisdiction insulated it from county planning department interference, which is what made Disney World's distinctive architecture possible.
"They were building Cinderella's castle 278 feet high made of fiberglass," says Foglesong. "You wouldn't find a provision for that…in a building code.
But creating unique building codes didn't mean skimping on safety. Disney hired a nationally recognized building code expert as well as a former general in the Army Corps of Engineers to oversee Disney World's construction.
"They wanted to make sure that the tourists who come here are safe. Otherwise, they might sue," says Foglesong. "So there was a financial incentive for the Disney company to conduct its inspections honorably and responsibly. And they weren't sure they would get that from a municipal government."
Legally, the Reedy Creek Improvement District started as a special drainage district so that the company would have municipal authority to empty the swamp that it planned to build over. But with approval from the state legislature, it morphed into a full-fledged government with its own fire department, hospital, water, and power systems, and even the right—though never exercised—to form its own police department. It had the authority to build a nuclear power plant within the district, which it never pursued, perhaps because that would have invited onerous federal regulation.
What's remarkable is how fast Disney's dream came together: The company transformed 2,500 acres of undeveloped swampland into the Disney World complex in just four years.
The Magic Kingdom opened to the public on October 1, 1971.
Disney World also inspired future experiments in private governance, including a variety of attempts to build charter cities run by private corporations in Central America and African countries with the goal of spurring economic growth by preserving personal liberty.
"Disney World in some ways has a lot of similarities with charter cities," said Mark Lutter, president of the Charter Cities Institute on a podcast, also noting that Disney did fall short of its stated goal to build a revolutionary charter city. "Disney World does show this mechanism of devolving authority and market mechanisms being reasonably effective."
Internal documents that Foglesong discovered in the Disney archives in Burbank, California, show that Walt Disney was adamant in the early stages of development that no permanent citizens reside in the Reedy Creek Improvement District, which was a way of keeping a democratically elected government at bay.
"They were afraid of democracy," says Foglesong. "They well understood that if people actually lived in the district…they would be able to vote there. And Walt didn't want that. They wanted planning and zoning authority, but not at the cost of having real residents who could vote there."
Disney did create two adjacent residential cities, Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista, with a combined population of little more than 50 permanent residents who get to elect the local government officials. Voters must own an acre of land in the district to participate in the Reedy Creek elections. Those voting-eligible residents, says Foglesong, are all trusted, long-term Disney employees.
"So those are like company towns," says Fogelsong. The arrangement "makes it possible to do things that would not be possible in the real world."
Disney was so protective of Reedy Creek's autonomy that when former CEO Michael Eisner created the residential city of Celebration on the property in 1996, he actually de-annexed it from the Reedy Creek Improvement District prior to residents moving into their homes so as not to risk the intrusion of politics.
Such intrusion of politics into semi-autonomous zones was on display earlier this year in Honduras, a country hobbled by bureaucracy, corruption, and weak property rights. In 2013, Honduras had passed a national law authorizing autonomous zones that could be run by private companies, which paved the way for several attempts to build charter cities protected from local politics. But after the election of the democratic socialist Xiomara Castro earlier this year, the government repealed that law, undermining the charter city movement.
And this underscores one of the hazards of building private cities: Their autonomy is vulnerable to the whims of populist politicians from the left and the right.
When DeSantis signed the Parental Rights in Education bill into law in March 2022, a national media firestorm ensued. Critics had dubbed the bill the "Don't Say Gay" law, arguing that it would potentially punish school staff who even acknowledged the existence of gay or transgender identities.
The text of the law says that "classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur" in grades K-3 and that school personnel may only broach the subject in older grades in a manner "age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate" as determined by standards that the Florida Department of Education will set.
Disney, a famously LGBT-friendly company, responded to employee complaints with a letter from Chapek issuing an apology for the company's silence during the debate over the bill, calling the new law a "challenge to human rights," promising to donate corporate funds to "combat similar legislation in other states" and pause "all political donations in the state of Florida."
DeSantis and his allies in the state legislature then targeted Reedy Creek.
"Reedy Creek gives [Disney] a competitive advantage that their competitors do not have," says state Rep. Randy Fine, a Republican, who introduced the bill dissolving Reedy Creek in the Florida House. "Disney announced they were going to use the special privileges that the state had given them to make it a priority to repeal a bill that we never passed: The supposed 'Don't Say Gay' bill. We thought that was a little bit out of line, and that created this groundswell of support to start to take a look at things like this."
Reedy Creek does grant Disney some advantages beyond streamlining zoning and building codes: The district can issue tax-exempt bonds to finance infrastructure improvements on the property, and Disney doesn't incur the same improvement fees when it develops its land that other companies operating under more traditional governance structures in Florida do.
But the company covers the cost of its own municipal services by paying, as of 2022, $164 million in annual taxes to Reedy Creek on top of the property taxes it pays the counties, and it reimburses the local sheriff's department for its presence on the property.
Foglesong says Walt Disney wasn't after tax breaks.
"Through the [Reedy Creek Improvement District] the Disney Company, believe it or not, taxes itself to be able to produce particular public services and build particular infrastructure that are specific to its own needs," says Foglesong. "The company clearly wants to retain those powers…not because it's money-saving for them, but rather because it produces efficiency for them."
Fine tells Reason that he rejects "the premise that [dissolving Reedy Creek] was retaliation" by Florida's GOP-controlled government against Disney but that "when you kick the hornet's nest, sometimes issues pop up."
"What has been going on here is, I believe…woke leftists have just simply bullied [large corporations], screamed and yelled and thrown temper tantrums. And so companies go, 'What's the path of least resistance? Fine, fine, fine. We'll throw you a bone,'" says Fine. "Well, they're now learning in Florida, there's a cost to doing that."
He also says that Florida will look like a more attractive state for investors when Disney gets the same treatment as all its competitors and that it's irresponsible to allow a company to accrue what he calls "government debt."
But unlike normal municipal bond debt that's typically repaid through taxation of local residents, Reedy Creek's bonds have been backed by the revenue of the Disney company, though that could change if the district is dissolved.
Florida's Orange County tax collector estimates the dissolution could lead to a 15–20 percent property tax increase in the county to compensate bondholders for Reedy Creek's more than $1 billion debt and cover the millions of dollars of annual expenses in maintaining the property's infrastructure.
"I don't see how the governor and the state legislature…are going to be able to finalize this step to dissolve the Reedy Creek Improvement District and not leave taxpayers and voters having to compensate the Disney company," says Foglesong.
Fine says that Orange and Osceola counties could set up their own special taxing districts to target Disney and make up for the shortfall. DeSantis has suggested absorbing Reedy Creek into the state government to continue extracting Disney's money.
Foglesong expects that Disney and the state of Florida will reach a compromise to save Reedy Creek before the June 2023 deadline.
"There are…too many children for this divorce to occur. The Reedy Creek Improvement District, in my opinion, is something like a prenuptial agreement that protected Disney's powers into the future," says Foglesong.
But Fine says the fact that Disney never turned EPCOT into a city of 20,000 residents as promised means that "the marriage was created on false pretenses."
"We're not interested in getting in the way of free speech, but when a visitor to our state says, we're going to use special privileges that we've been given to retaliate….That's a slap in the face to the people of Florida, and we're not going to put up with it," says Fine.
If Disney is indeed a visitor to Florida, it's made the kind of long visit that lasts more than half a century. Fine maintains that the company was "acting like a visitor" by demanding that Floridians "accept [their] California values in the state of Florida."
"A Florida company wouldn't have done this," says Fine.
So, if Reedy Creek is dissolved, what's the legacy of Walt Disney's dream city built from scratch on a Florida swamp?
It's true that no other company was ever able to secure the kind of autonomy that Disney did in Florida, though special districts proliferate throughout the state, and a more libertarian state legislature might even consider giving the "Disney deal" to other landowners.
Disney has created a world-class destination, contributing to Florida's status as the top international tourist destination in the United States, as DeSantis' press secretary recently boasted. Disney World has also served as a model of land use studied worldwide by businesses and governments.
Even though handing control over a large swath of land to a private company may annoy local politicians resentful of relinquishing even a micron of power, the results speak for themselves. The Reedy Creek Improvement District, in its half-century of life so far, has offered a glimpse of what's possible when land development is governed by a private company with a long-term stake rather than the political whims and interests of elected officials.
"Disney World is in many ways the city dedicated to free enterprise," says Fogelsong. "Without residents, true. Without democracy. But with a reliance on a private corporation to efficiently provide public services. So it is kind of amazing that self-described conservatives now would want to take away from a well-known and pretty beloved company the ability to privatize public services and to deregulate."
Or, as Walt Disney put it in his closing remarks in the presentation aired for Florida lawmakers in 1967:
"We can create right here in Disney World, a showcase to the world of the American free enterprise system. I believe we can build a community that more people will talk about and come to look at than any other area in the world."
Produced by Zach Weissmueller; edited by Danielle Thompson and Weissmueller.
Photo credits: Paul Hennessy/ZUMA Press/Newscom; Douglas R. Clifford/ZUMA Press/Newscom; https://www.flickr.com/photos/8363028@N08/; Paul Hennessy/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom; Oliver Tsang/SCMP/Newscom; Inti Oncon/dpa/picture-alliance/Newscom; Pietro Recchia/ZUMA Press/Newscom; Douglas R. Clifford/ZUMA Press/Newscom; Splash News/Duke Energy/Newscom; Orlando Sentinel File/TNS/Newscom; Paul Hennessy/SOPA Images/Sipa/Newscom; Douglas R. Clifford/ZUMA Press/Newscom.
Music: "Aquarium" by Wolf Samuels via Artlist; "Ganymede" by Yehezkel Raz via Artlist; "Morning Sunbeams" by Yehezkel Raz via Artlist; "Lost on Earth" by Marek Jakubowicz via Artlist; "Ripples" by Tamuz Dekel via Artlist; "Machina" by Jameson Nathan Jones via Artlist; "Signals" by Jameson Nathan Jones via Artlist; "High" by Audiopanther via Artlist; "Distant Worlds" by Theatre of Delays via Artlist; "Leopard's Stalk" by Hans Johnson via Artlist
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Conveniently left out is that if Walt Disney could see what his former company was up to, likely he'd shut it down himself.
LOL, no shit. The company is pretty twisted perversion now of what Walt actually wanted to promote with his films and parks.
I can't remember where I read it now, but back in the 80s after Eisner took over and Disney had started branching out in to more adult-oriented entertainment avenues, like setting up Touchstone Pictures and the like, some guy had run in to one of the old-timers there during lunch, and this dude said something along the lines of, "watch out for this new guard coming in. They're bound and determined to tear down everything that the old man built here."
As recently as 20 years ago Disney was the target of all the bike that the left could muster, spewing forth hate against the company for not holding park-wide LGBTQ festivals and not featuring openly gay characters in children's programming.
Well, the diversity police won that one. Now the heads of the company's two largest entertainment franchises (Star Wars and Marvel) are firmly entrenched in a commitment to make every hire about some equity issue or another, every film about some equity issue or another, every casting decision and every new character.... All of it, having "woke", broadly defined, at the center.
So far, only denizens of the internet seem to take issue with these moves.
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..as well as the majority of FL citizens. Completed it for you.
This will be a shame. It also allowed for such wonders as creating an unspoilt view of wilderness from the balconies of the African Lodge. Disney just needs to apologize.
The idea that Fine rejects that this is retaliation is hard to believe when every quote that comes afterward describes retaliation. There is something incredibly disingenuous about calling Disney's stance an attack on Floridians and Florida itself, rather than a disagreement with one policy, by one party entrenched through gerrymandering.
I may not be a fan of what happened, but Florida isn't a monolith. It's a state of diverse people and ideas and should be recognized as such. There is a section of the GOP that, just like a section of the left, has lost its mind.
R- 5,142,002
D - 5,007,590
3rd Party - 256,220
Ind - 3,872,352
Yep, those darn gerrymandering Republicans. Is this a parody account?
They also became an extreamly pedofile frendly company.
The company does attract a lot of Buttplugs.
Interesting that Reedy Creek's population is heavily restricted to provide Disney with a "rotten borough" they could exclude politics from, and they are losing it because they unnecessarily dabbled in politics due to the hysterical and dishonest complaints of the LGBT activist employees, largely based outside of Florida.
Chapek made a tremendous strategic error in caving to them.
He’s should have canned the activist employees.
Can you imagine if the silent majority of employees had publicly backed the Anti Groomer law? They would have been fired and canceled so fast their heads would have spun. The vocal few not only don’t care if they get sacked but they know they won’t so they can do whatever they want with no consequences. And that is your lesson there, those of us who want to keep our jobs have to keep our heads down as we actually want to work for a living and can’t imagine sponging off of others so they have our nuts in a vice.
The silent majority of Disney employees DOES back the anti-groomer law.
But, as you've noted, opening their mouths will get them fired.
Because the vocal few are managers, supervisors and CEOs. The guy lugging Mickey costumes through the tunnels doesn't have a chance.
The world is gramscied. Nearly every authority figure is working towards the same brain dead goal.
Because the vocal few are managers, supervisors and CEOs. The guy lugging Mickey costumes through the tunnels doesn't have a chance.
Not to mention the actual media celebrities under their employ, who have a much bigger megaphone to use.
The world is gramscied. Nearly every authority figure is working towards the same brain dead goal.
Yep, and when the whole thing inevitably goes to shit, those same morons will either pretend it never happened, or stand amongst the rubble complaining that no one stopped them.
Disney's Mother Of All Stadium Deal is Just Like Libertopia
You hacks are not about principles, you are about preferred outcomes. You start there and rationalize back.
And to think that Disney started this as a way to keep politics out of Disney's business - and then threw it all away by injecting Disney into politics. (No, DeSantis didn't start this, Disney started it.)
> Walt Disney wanted plenty of space to keep the type of tacky tourist shops that encircled Disneyland... from encroaching on his new kingdom.
Having been going to Disneyland since I was a kid in the 60s, there really weren't a lot of those tacky shops. A few to be sure, but the idea that his tourists should not be allowed to go anywhere else, not even a hot dog stand, is just plain weird. And yes, Walt was a weird man.
So what does Disneyland have across its street today? Downtown Disney. A tacky outdoor mall full of tacky shops. Okay, tacky is in the eye of the beholder, but nestled next to the House of Blues is a Build-a-Bear. Depending on who you are, one or the other is "tacky".
So it wasn't about tackiness, it was about controlling the tackiness to promote the atmosphere the brand wanted.
That said, this recent kerfuffle is just plain stupid. It's a showcase of DeSantis small brain. He's just pissed that a company had an INTERNAL memo critical of one of his favored bills. Disney doesn't get a vote in the Florida legislature, but just the mere disagreement sent that mental midget over the edge.
That said, this recent kerfuffle is just plain stupid. It's a showcase of DeSantis small brain. He's just pissed that a company had an INTERNAL memo critical of one of his favored bills. Disney doesn't get a vote in the Florida legislature, but just the mere disagreement sent that mental midget over the edge.
On the contrary, it's a necessary lesson for politically woke corporations like Disney, who hide behind their status as a private company while heavily promoting radical left political and cultural content in the mass media, that if they want to leverage their money to influence politics, they better be prepared for the consequences if the party in charge doesn't want to go along with their jawboning and media influencing.
So, Red Rock is in favor of bringing the full weight of the vstate down on individuals and companies that voice opinions against it's laws.
Yeah, that's real libertarianism.
When you're in a special status, you deserve to lose said special status when you decide to go against the unit that gave you such special status.
Not that any company deserves such status to begin with...
So it wasn't about tackiness, it was about controlling the tackiness to promote the atmosphere the brand wanted.
^
And, as you say, to keep you from being able to conveniently procure food outside of the park. A lot of Disney's business model is predicated on the "you are being held somewhat hostage" situation.
It's not a new concept, though. Movie theaters have had the same policy for a long time. Yeah, they aren't going to pat you down to make sure you aren't smuggling in some M&Ms, but anyone blatantly trying to carry in food is going to be told to dump it in the trash.
Not being to go anywhere else is one of the oldest gambits in entertainment.
That is how most venues make their money. The movie theater, arcade, bowling alley. Even the sports arena... All make their money by keeping you captive to a snack bar. All amusement parks operate off of this theory.
Adding lodging to the mix is an obvious extension of the business model. As is shopping, clubbing. Bars,..... And Downtown Disney and Universal Studios City Walk. were born.
For a small-brained guy, DeSantis made some excellent progress for the conservative cause, and elevated his own "brand" quite effectively. You, not so much.
maybe stay out of the ring if don't want punches.
" . . . DeSantis and his allies in the state legislature then targeted Reedy Creek."
Bullshit.
According to the Department of Economic Opportunity’s (DEO) Special District Accountability Program
Official List of Special Districts, there are 1,843 special districts, 1,227 independent special districts and
616 dependent districts.
Independent Special District Dissolution
An independent special district may be dissolved in one of the four following ways:
Voluntary dissolution by a majority vote plus one of the district’s board;24
For districts created by special act, the passage of a special act dissolving the district, subject to
approval by a majority vote of the residents or landowners of the district;25
For districts created by a local government, using a referendum or other procedure that was
used to create the district;26 or
For districts that have been declared inactive by DEO, by special act or ordinance without a
referendum.
According to DEO’s Special District Accountability Program Official List of Special Districts, there are
132 active independent special districts that were created by special act before November 5, 1968.29 Of
those 132 districts, 126 appear to operate under a charter that was reestablished, re-ratified, or
otherwise reconstituted by a special act or general law after November 5, 1968. The following six
districts appear to operate pursuant to a charter, which predates the 1968 Florida Constitution and was
not reestablished, re-ratified, or otherwise reconstituted by a special act or general law after November
5, 1968:
Bradford County Development Authority, Bradford County.
Sunshine Water Control District, Broward County.30
Eastpoint Water and Sewer District, Franklin County.
Hamilton County Development Authority, Hamilton County.
Marion County Law Library, Marion County.
Reedy Creek Improvement District, Orange and Osceola Counties
Covers the entire state.
Granting libertarian-style benefits (self governance, etc.) to a select few isn't libertarianism, it's injustice and corruption.
No citizens = no individual freedom = not libertarian
This reminds me of the witless gerbils who claim to oppose NAFTA and other such trade deals because it's not *real* free trade, just managed trade. Yes, and so you'd prefer even more restrictive trade instead?
I give you this: at least you are consistent in your support for corruption, big government, and corporate welfare.
NAFTA was a step in the right direction though. The Randy Creek Improvement District was not, unless Florida was willing to give the same deal to every company there. You certainly aren't consistent in this regard.
a remarkable experiment in private governance that has thrived for the past 55 years.
Until it started advocating grooming children. Then, inevitably, it met the same fate as self-governing Mormon communities in every state between IL and UT, inclusive.
This thread is typical and proof that tghis is a MAGA site, not libertarian. You jerk offs are fine with the weight of the state being dropped on those you disagree with for speaking out. That's all that Disney did when it criticized the bill passed by DeSantis and his lackeys like Randy Fine. For that a bill with unknown but serious repercussions was passed without hearings, without input from experts on what it would mean, without public comment though it will seriously impact 2 counties, and within 2 days of being presented, the clear purpose of the bill being to punish Disney for it's CEO exercising his 1st amendment rights. And you cocksuckers who call yourselves libertarians are cheering on the state.
There was no previous movement to consider this before the Disney CEO speaking out - I googled it setting the dates for last year. Nothing came up. This is banana republic bullshit you MAGA creeps are all for because ............ you like bullies like DeSantis and Trump and don't give a fuck about the constitution and like state power used for your tribe.
Jerk-offs!
PS This will almost certainly be thrown out in the courts as will much of DeSantis's headline grabbing political stunts, for which the GOP legislature was a willing prop. Meanwhile they avoided a serious insurance crisis and addressing older high rise building inspections and had to come back for a 3rd session.
And that is relevant from a libertarian point of view... how?
Wow, I haven't heard such sobbing since Trump won. Caterwauling, almost. How about "no special rights", as a matter of principle?
If Joe is shitting himself you know that you're doing the right thing.
Joe Friday, not you obviously.
You're MAGA not libertarian.
You can just picture Joe here petulantly stomping his foot with tears forming in his eyes.
You jerk offs are fine with the weight of the state being dropped on those you disagree with for speaking out.
Don't hate the player, hate the game, baby.
Don't bring empty lies to a gun and law fight.
You're MAGA not libertarian.
Guess that would make you a Groomer, not libertarian.
Walt Disney should never have been granted this special privilege to begin with.
There should have been.
Banana republic bullshit, like granting special privileges and exemptions, is what you support.
Based on what NYOB? You may be right but no one knows because no one advocated this - especially the Republicans in Florida until DeSantis and his stooges looked for a way to punish them because their CEO criticized legislation. No studies, no public or expert comment before voting, one committee hearing with no witnesses and it has not been an issue in any way until the vote.
You don't what you are talking about but are defending your tribe. That's MAGA, not libertarian.
Do you oppose requirements that company boards are made up of a certain amount of women, or that companies must pay their employees a minimum wage. What about when Obama was dictating behaviour to companies that had government contracts? You love the power of state putting pressure on a company when it suits, but in this case, the playing field is made level, and you can't scream foul fast enough.
How would you know, Joe? You’re not libertarian *either*.
1. Disney is granted special rights by FL, providing them a competitive advantage. 2. After 50 yrs, Disney declares they will actively work to oppose FL policy, ostensibly by using resources provided in part by that same competitive advantage. 3. FL decides to place Disney in the same category as every other goddam company trying to influence FL politics by removing Disney's special right. 4. Groomers and DNC hacks worldwide cry boo hoo hoo.
Indeed! I don't agree with corporate personhood being legally sanctioned, but it is, and my first impression of this affair is that this is the government dictating speech.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, "
I'll add, that the writers for this site do effectively express a libertarian perspective. What confounds me is that a lot of the commenters here are looney tune dreactionary right wing MAGA heads. I don't understand why they inhabit this site.
Desantis punishing Disney is abridging Disney's freedom of speech.
Read JoeB's reply above. Disney was granted a special privilege from the government of Florida (something that should have not happened to begin with as it's not libertarian), and then decided to engage in political activism against said government. So Florida decides to remove the special privilege.
It's a step towards the right direction in terms of libertarianism, and the notion "that all men are created equal" as the Declaration of Independence states.
It seems you lack searching skills. The desire to remove the special status goes back at least to 2009. Pretty sure DeSantis wasn’t Governor then.
That said, special districts like this are not libertarian at all. They are special privileges granted to specific corporations - it is statism with a corporate flavor.
An actual libertarian solution would remove the structure for such special privileges to be granted by the state in the first place. Furthermore, even if one accepted corporate statism granting favors as “libertarian”, RC’s failure to uphold its end of the agreement is grounds for dissolving the contract. And regardless of the recent motivations, RC has been failing to uphold its agreements for decades.
Just because you didn’t know about the issue until recently doesn’t mean they weren’t there.
Gotta push the narrative! Florida man bad! Definitely not Disney's fault for lying about anti-grooming law.
ReasonNPC mode
You're MAGA not libertarian. Jason maybe you're looking for the QAnon site.
You know, I don't think that's quite the insult you hope it is, at least not coming from you.
You sound like a kid calling everyone a poopyhead.
"wildly successful half-century experiment in municipal governance."
Oh, FFS, the handful of employees who live in the Municipalities are Disney serfs who dare not contradict the corporations wishes. The residential communities are outside the municipalities so they are allowed to have no say over their own governance. Reason is out in favor of company towns now.
You're MAGA not libertarian.
You don;t know what the fuck you are talking about.
You're MAGA not libertarian.
I don't think this says what you think it says.
I have to agree. Aren't company-owned cities the basis of the very dystopia that so many people fear?
The company store in the company town is the EPITOME of corruption and absolute power that caused labor unions to rise to prominence in the Gilded Age.
Granting a private company control of city hall is the exact opposite of libertarianism.
Up until a few months ago, people were talking about how horrible it was that Disney was distorting laws for their own profit. Now, they are defending these distortions as Disney is on "their side"
"wildly successful half-century experiment"
Fifty years and dozens of other special zones and it's no longer an experiment.
Also, why does Reason always leave out the fact that the bill to make these changes were proposed long before Disney went creepy and also ends special districts unrelated to Disney? (rhetorical question, I know exactly why they leave it out)
Reason has become so utterly dishonest and antilibertarian these days.
Any organization, not specifically right-wing, will become left wing over time.
You're MAGA not libertarian.
It was not proposed long ago you twit. It was not an issue in either state or local politics and certainly DeSantis never brought it up or cared until he was looking to punish, which is his style. I guess MAGA creeps like bullies.
And yet I can easily find calls for it to be abolished going back to 2009.
"Total control over the land so that politics couldn't interfere with Disney World's development." So, FL left Disney alone politically...until Disney decided to not leave FL alone. Sorry, Darwin trumps libertarian ideals here. Hire stupid management, get stupid results.
Despite what some may claim, a state granting special privileges isn’t libertarian; it is corporate statism. A corporation itself isn’t exactly libertarian, as it is the granting of special privileges in exchange for government controls over the company. This type of “special district” is an extension of corporatism and the state picking favorites. In this case the state decided it didn’t have the same favorite anymore. Which is one of the things illustrating this isn’t a libertarian situation.
“Disney World is in many ways the city dedicated to free enterprise” but says Fogelsong. "Without residents” and “ Without democracy.”. Fixed that quote to clarify what he really is saying.
If we were honest we would still call LGBTQ+ people mentally ill. The transsexuals are extreme examples of mental illness. Pushing this mental illness on young children is harmful. Disney support for this mental illness is causing harm to young children. I say arrest the CEO and give him a prison sentence of several years. Fine the Disney corporation whatever amount is needed to reverse the harm they have done. $100 billion might be enough. Let them have a slimmed down Reedy Creek.
You weak son of a bitches think it's OK to use the full weight of the state to stifle opinions you don't like. That's undeniable after reading this thread. It doesn't matter if you like Disney or not, the legislation it's CEO criticized or not, or special districts in Florida or not (try studying it first, get the opinions of the adjacent counties which would have to pick up the services and governance, the impact on an incredibly successful business that's been there for over 50 years which benefits the state economy as well as supports the jobs of tens of thousands - include other businesses dependent on those international and national tourists).
The Governor doesn't GAF about any of that, nor know fully the consequences of his actions if a company CEO - with more than legitimate interests in what the state does that affects him and that company - dares criticize him. And you assholes think that's just great.
And call yourselves libertarians.
Nope. We want to Make America Great Again, not engage in pro-state-sponsored-pedophilia Libertarianism.
Right, MAGA, not libertarian. Thanks for owning it mad.
I don't think its any surprise you have no wish to Make America Great Again. Thanks for owning that.
Hey speaking of which, what happened to UltraMaga and the Maga King terms they spend months trying to perfect as an insult?
Did they realise that its actually more of a compliment, contrary to all their focus groups?
Perhaps you should take a hint from that.
I'd love for my little 1/3 acre ocean front property to be a "special district" too. I'd gladly be self policing and handle fire protection and trash pickup and whatever else a government supplies... in exchange for keeping the $20,000+ I pay per year in city taxes. Hell, I'd even have 2 permanent residents. We could vote and everything.
CB
Hey, me too! Sign me up!
Can someone explain to me why the Disney executives thought it was a good idea to speak out on any topic in the culture wars?
As a family friendly company, I would suppose that the majority of Disney consumers are on the conservative and family values side in the culture wars.
Because how could it possibly benefit the company to alienate half or more of its potential customers?
Caving into woke employees, and taking a stance against the governor of the state, is a very poor business decision.
Taking a firm stand and punching Disney in the nose, (after they punched the governor in the nose) is the reason Ron DeSantis is going to be the future president of United States
"Can someone explain to me why the Disney executives thought it was a good idea to speak out on any topic in the culture wars?"
It's largely psychological. A well recognized phenomenon among people in leadership roles is a deep seated fear that others will come to realize that they do not actually know what they are doing.
So C-Suite people often predicate their behavior on signaling to others that they belong in the C-Suite.