Should We End the Lockdowns? A Soho Forum Debate
Harvard's Martin Kulldorff vs. Andrew Noymer of UC Irvine
HD DownloadShould the COVID-19 lockdowns be replaced with a more targeted strategy?
On October 4, 2020, epidemiologists from Harvard, Oxford, and Stanford authored the Great Barrington Declaration, which advocates for ending the COVID-19 lockdowns and turning to a strategy of protecting elderly and vulnerable populations while allowing everyone else to resume their normal lives.
Critics of the Declaration issued a counter-petition called the "John Snow Memorandum," stating, "Any pandemic management strategy relying upon immunity from natural infections for COVID-19 is flawed. Uncontrolled transmission in younger people risks significant morbidity and mortality across the whole population."
In an online Soho Forum debate on December 13, Martin Kulldorff, a Harvard biostatistician and epidemiologist and coauthor of the Great Barrington Declaration, debated Andrew Noymer, an associate professor of population health and disease prevention at the University of California, Irvine, who signed the John Snow Memorandum.
It was an Oxford-style debate, and in this case, the contest ended in a tie: Both debaters convinced 5.56 percent of audience members to switch to their side over the course of the debate.
The Soho Forum, sponsored by Reason Foundation, is a monthly debate series typically held at the SubCulture Theater in Manhattan's East Village, but which has gone remote during the pandemic.
Narrated by Nick Gillespie. Edited by John Osterhoudt and Regan Taylor.
Photos: Travis Wise/Flickr/Creative Commons; Travis Wise/Flickr/Creative Commons; Travis Wise/Flickr/Creative Commons; Travis Wise/Flickr/Creative Commons; Steve Sanchez/Sipa USA/Newscom; David Cliff/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom; Johnny Louis/JL/Sipa USA/Newscom; tMartha Asencio Rhine/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom; Dinendra Haria/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom; Chris Urso/ZUMA Press/Newscom; JIM RUYMEN/UPI/Newscom; John Marshall Mantel/ZUMA Press/Newscom
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Anyone know why Fergie left the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies in May? The article doesn't say.
Third lockdown may have to be toughest yet, says professor who designed first
‘There may be a need for additional controls,’ says Professor Neil Ferguson
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/third-lockdown-strictest-neil-ferguson-b1776210.html
The third national lockdown may have to be stricter than the second, Imperial College London epidemiologist Professor Neil Ferguson said.
“The concern I have right now is that ... (in) the East of England, for instance, case numbers were rising during the last lockdown, so there may be a need for additional controls beyond even what were in place then,” he told BBC Radio 4’s World At One programme on Friday.
Prof Ferguson sat on the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies until May, and his modelling led the UK government to U-turn on its initial “herd immunity” strategy and to design the first national lockdown in March.
Does "good and hard" apply to a pseudo-monarchy/democracy?
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Isn’t that the morherfucker that said his models showed we’d be at 2 million deaths by summer?
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This piece of shit who should be arrested for kicking off this panic should shut his mouth.
The Davos crowd are never going to let the lockdowns end, even if Covid is obliterated.
They're everything they ever dreamed of in a public policy.
This is the final marriage between globalism and corporatism. It won't stop until all non multinationals go bankrupt. The multinationals paying for Democrats to sit on their boards between elections and getting billions in taxes for their work.
What's that thing called where giant corporations are in bed with totalitarian governments?
Doesn't matter what it's called I'm sure the left is against it!
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What a dumbass statement. The Ds don't like the lock downs anymore then anyone else.
Lol
Did I say anything about Democrats, Jeff? Pretty sure I said Davos.
Funny how you and White Knight automatically conflated the two.
You’re not keeping up on the paranoid CACLL conspiracy theories: you are supposed to accept as gospel that Democrats only want lockdowns as a foot in the door for totalitarian socialism.
you don't need to believe in conspiracy theories to read the news. Democrats were calling for UBI (an extra 600 bucks a week, or 15 bucks an hour, on top of normal unemployment benefits) back in April to last until mid-2021.
"paranoid CACLL conspiracy theories"
The White Knight
October.22.2020 at 3:18 pm
It means conservative and conservative-leaning libertarian, and I coined it..
So?
Hey man if being a laughing stock is ok with you then keep it up.
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That is flattering, though, that you keep a little file of bookmarks of my comments.
It takes two clicks. Your attempts to win this sad dick measuring contest constantly beclown you.
You're a troll at this point. Your act stopped being believable long ago.
I wish I had said that. Oh... wait... since we're the same person I guess I did!
Tulpa used to do that too when he accidentally reused a comment from two different sockpuppets.
he thinks we don't know it's him
That whooshing sound was my point going over your head.
Tulpa used to shipost and spam up a thread with incoherent babble too after he screwed up.
I wish I had said that...we're the same person I did!
http://accidentaltruth.com
I remember that time you got drunk over a weekend and flamed for 48 hours then came back on Monday claiming you were hacked and never post on weekends. Good times.
Who doesn't remember that?
Besides him of course.
"That is flattering, though"
Wow, you're pretty easy to flatter, huh.
I know I wouldn't find someone posting evidence of my fuck-ups and shitposts to be flattering.
Ok can someone explain what CACCL is? I keep seeing it posted here, but when I tried searching for it and couldn't find anything.
It his attempt to dismiss any non leftitatian.
Ok, well I don't know what 'leftitatian' is either.
JesseAz’s attempt at forcing his own meme. JesseAz is the only person on earth who uses that particular label so that’s why you won’t find it anywhere.
"JesseAz’s attempt at forcing his own meme."
Ohhhh sarcasmic is butthurt again!
He's upset that everyone is lauginhg at him because his little acronym is stupid!
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I must have really touched a nerve with White Knight.
LOL
Oh he mad!
It was used by someone else just today. Do you prefer cosplay libertarian?
White Knight's attempt at forcing his own meme. White Knight is the only person on earth who uses that particular acronym so that's why you won't find it anywhere.
It’s odd that you think this was a use of “force” on my part, but it is consistent with a pattern seen here over and over again, where CACLLs describe someone disagreeing with them, or contradicting their talking points, as some kind of attack in which they are the victims.
We learned it from the left.
"It’s odd that you think this was a use of “force” on my part'
It's odd that you don't know what force means?
I don't think you being ignorant is odd at all
Have another bottle Sarcasmic, you're not drunk enough to be this whiny.
Or you could just use your eyes.
I use my eyes, but have trained my mind not to exaggerate about what I’m seeing, and never to buy into the false dichotomy that I have to act like a sheep and support Team Red because Team Blue is bad or support Team Blue because Team Red is bad.
"I use my eyes, but have trained my mind"
And here we see the problem.
"but have trained my mind not to exaggerate about what I’m seeing"
Ow! my sides! You're going to give me a stitch.
Hahahahahaha
So very special:
The White Knight
December.19.2020 at 12:38 pm
I use my eyes, but have trained my mind not to exaggerate about what I’m seeing, and never to buy into the false dichotomy that I have to act like a sheep
I'm going to try it as a Haiku:
I might use my eyes
But I see all with my mind
I am very smart
~ W. Knight
Lol
So youre intentionally ignoring the democrats who are using the lockdowns as proof they can enact strict GND type enforcement. Stop proving you are a shitty leftist.
Who needs paranoid conspiracies when we can just listen to it from the source.
IN case you find the video too boring...
The post-COVID world will entail:
Increased Security, both physical and health security
More inclusiveness, reducing the wealth in response to the social revolutions we've seen in the streets.
More sustainable, taking on the Climate Crisis.
In practice:
1. Redefining the social contract.
2. "Decarbonization of the Economy"
3. Move from Shareholder capitalism to "stakeholder capitalism" led by the world's largest global technology corporations.
But sure, don't let your lying eyes and ears deceive you. What you just heard in the video is merely the fever dream of a q-anon Trump voter.
*wealth gap*
Are you that ignorant, stupid, or deceitful?
I didn't even mention the Democrats, but did you see where Jeff automatically went?
If Democrats disliked lockdowns then they'd end them and they wouldn't have imposed them.
Notice I said "Davos Crowd", but Jeff and White Knight instantly interpret it to mean Democrats.
A hit dog hollers
False
The Ds don’t like the lock downs anymore then anyone else.
come now; that's a demonstrably false statement...
If the D’s don’t like lockdowns, then why are Democratic mayors more gung ho about implementing them, and why do Democrats mock critics of lockdown policies?
Trying to convince covidiots not to go around infecting others distracts the Ds from their long term progressive goals. They don't like this at all.
"Trying to convince covidiots not to go around infecting others"
You're counseling cowards such as yourself to stay home and hide from infection?
Oh no. You're not.
Don't even try with these people Molly, they are beyond help and beyond reproach. Most here are basically r*tarded. The only sad part is that they all somehow haven't died from Covid-19 yet.
Stay home. Wash your damn hands. It's that f*cking simple.
Lol. Atheist maybe. Definitely not enlightened. Or intelligent. Why won't a disease with 0.05 morality rate for those over 60 kill off all your perceived enemies. Lol.
I'm pretty sure that it's a Tony parody, but it flies kind of close to Poe's Law.
Yeah, I have to say, there's nothing enlightened about a stance that suggests; on the one hand, it's simple to protect oneself from the virus by washing your hands and staying home, while at the same time supporting someone who accuses others of "running around infecting others".
The contradiction is staring you (and everyone who thinks similarly) in the face. It should be obvious, but let me attempt to clarify:
Lest these people are "running around" in your house, they pose no threat to you. In other words, people are capable of assessing their own risks (unique to them and their situation) and make their life choices accordingly. All the while, never endangering those who chose differently.
The real question is, why does this bother you so much. Look deep within and learn something about yourself today.
Trying to convince covidiots not to go around infecting others
'covidiots'; how droll...the only idiots in this scenario are people thinking that dirty face diapers have magical powers to make them safe...
>>long term progressive goals
What goals? Free healthcare for all Mexicans?
Listen to the science. Masks, social distancing, and lockdowns have a long history of working to stop pandemics, it is scientifically proven to work and it's how we've stopped every other pandemic. The idea that the most vulnerable populations should take measures to protect themselves and that the sick should isolate themselves while everybody else goes about their business is a lunatic experiment that has never been tried before because it is self-evidentially a stupid idea.
Yes for sure. A little exaggerated but agree for the most part.
Ohhhh, it's like that episode of South Park, "Sarcastiball".
Here, let me try....
I know, right? How ridiculous thinking of people as individuals, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. No, no, no, the way you handle this pandemic is by reducing everyone down to our least common denominator.
I mean, it's just like when I was in grade school and someone was sick and had to stay home. Obviously the rest of us were sent home too. Duh! The idea that we would resume our education, clearly exploiting the innocent misfortune of a few, would be appalling .
Schools have been showing us the way to handle all sorts of "mass" problems. Are some students having trouble with math and reading? Duh, obviously you reduce the curriculum down for everyone. Are some students incapable of passing tests? Duh, just lower the standards for everyone.
Come to think of it, why are some relegated to wheel chairs and crutches while the able-bodied walk around? I mean, come on! We're in this together people! I swear, where's the civility and decency these days?
“The idea that the most vulnerable populations should take measures to protect themselves and that the sick should isolate themselves while everybody else goes about their business is a lunatic experiment that has never been tried before because it is self-evidentially a stupid idea.”
I’m old enough to remember when we did this, because I’m more than one year old, and I remember last flu season. I was the only person in my social group who washed their hands before eating lunch, and I ended up getting pneumonia last year.
They posted the same damn thing earlier.
Maybe the comments on the first version gave them a sad.
This is really not a complicated issue. If everyone were to take covid seriously, wear a mask and social distance, these lock downs would not be needed. But a large swath of the US population has refused to take any measures to protect the public health, and thus we are left with few options. Covid has killed about 1 in 1000 Americans so far. Everyday we are losing the same number of people to covid as we did in 9/11.
Molly, every day you don't kill yourself for the good of society proves your selfishness
And stupidity.
Says a disciple of Aleck Jones.
Fuck off WK.
Testing that theory that if you repeat a lie enough times people will believe it?
Wait you're NOT White Knight?
I thought you were just doing a thing.
It's White Knight. He fucked up earlier and this is his weak ass damage control.
Hi, there. sarcasmic is not me. That is all.
Fuck off sarcasmic.
Piss off, sarc.
Take off, eh!
Yeehaw parder.
Says a guy who thinks jeff is a bright example of libertarianism even though he calls himself a globalist.
Ever heard of California? Lockdowns and mask mandates since March. Cases now spiking worse than anywhere.
But there are still many who don't wear masks in CA, and everywhere else in the US.
Lol. God damn son. Just prove you dont give a fuck about science. You just believe you are right despite all the evidence.
It’s not falsifiable. No amount of evidence will ever persuade.
Just like socialism, the lockdowns simply have not been done properly. We need more ratting neighbors and hotlines. More forceful enforcement from the Top Whatever-Gender-They-Feel-Like-Todays, too.
"If everyone were to take covid seriously,
wear a mask and social distance,and cower in fear while the productive people get on with life these lock downs would not be needed"Places with strict lockdowns are also spiking.
You seem upset that "the Science" is making you look stupid, so you think doubling down on stupid will get that dirty "Science" in line.
1. No place has had a strict lock down long enough to have an effect yet.
2. Even in areas with mandates and lockdowns, many still do not cooperate.
Let me translate for you:
1. No country has has strict socialism long enough to have an effect yet.
2. Even in countries with socialism, many kulaks and wreckers still do not cooperate.
Wish I'd read this before my most recent comment. Yours is more direct.
Ha! I was working off Molly's template, had to be short and direct! Quite unusual for me.
You are so ignorant to science. Uoure the reason why peanut allergies exploded. Something sounds correct so you think it is despite overwhelming evidence against it. Infection rates are not correlated at all to mask usage by an areas residents. Full stop.
So if it didn't work it wasn't strict enough? Sciency.
Kulaks and Wreckers!
You cribbed your excuses straight from AOC.
Because the non correlation between mask usage and covid infection rates continues to prove your retarded inferences wrong.
Obey the orders of The Good People you stupid deplorable proles!
Otherwise they'll keep pushing the same dumb policies that don't work because you keep ignoring orders from your betters. Will they ever learn that their schemes don’t work in the real world? No, of course not. Being one of The Good People means it's your role to learn. Their role is to tell you what to learn.
You proles keep getting more and more deplorable every time one of these extremely wise policies fails.
8500 people die every day in the US without COVID. So far fewer people have died this year than last.
You are ignorant. There are many ways to catch a cold besides from another person.
If everyone were to take covid seriously, wear a mask and social distance, these lock downs would not be needed.
if everyone actually social distanced, then masks are superfluous; if everyone wore masks (not really, but let's pretend) distancing is superfluous; and if you're dumb enough to think politicians aren't going to salivate at the thought of controlling the masses without pushback, well, then, what can one say...?
https://www.aier.org/article/the-decimal-point-that-blew-up-the-world/
https://twitter.com/DanODonnellShow/status/1340132763740073984?s=19
Black Lives Matter goons are currently at Candy Cane Lane in the Milwaukee area and are terrorizing people who have come to look at the lights in a child cancer fundraiser. Yes, Black Lives Matter goons are actually terrorizing a child cancer fundraiser.
The tweeter painstakingly made sure these goons are officially associated with Black Lives Matter, I am sure.
Funny that this would be a Black Lives Matter event since the BLM organization usually organizes daytime or early evening events such as peaceful protest marches, speakers on the steps of government buildings, that type of thing.
They were chanting "Black lives matter."
The tweeter and Nardz made them do it.
He won't even believe the independent journalists who know the major organizers of BLM and show positive ID of those people
Well yeah. No grandmas.
Like anyone here who has claimed that “BLM rioters” did this or that heinous act has ever presented any evidence like that.
Like you actually give it a good faith reading when they do.
“When they do.” When has anyone done that?
Frequently but you insist otherwise.
Link to an example.
Let it be noted that when white knight and its ilk assert "no evidence", they mean things like a group of people chanting "black lives matter" is not evidence of association with black lives matter demonstrations.
Straight up denial of reality.
White Knight needs to see their drivers licenses.
Or moreover, the realization that these same "non-BLM demonstrators" aren't reading the crap he's reading, supplicating to any scientists supporting lockdowns, getting educated on world issues and sure as hell not giving a damn about Granny. The lockdown crowd is superduper fancy in that they have about 31 ideologies going on all at the same time and most are simply using each other as a cudgel to beat everyone else. Because when this ends, and it will end, (simply because our liberal news media is going to want to go on a plane or eat out without their colleagues ratting them out, and because they'll get bored with their own narrative very soon) .....The rioters, lockdown crowd, elite liberal "woke" progressive left, et al, will start eating each other alive.
And how does that make their activity something that was organized by Black Lives Matter, the organization?
Has the organization denounced them or asked them to stop? Disassocaited themselves publicly?
Cites?
If your argument is that they are not official BLM, prove it. These protesters branded themselves BLM. Prove them liars.
Yes, it would be better if Black Lives Matter issued a denouncement. They are not obligated to do so, since they didn’t organize this.
And I don’t need to prove a negative. The burden of proof is on Nardz.
"And I don’t need to prove a negative. The burden of proof is on Nardz."
No. Evidence exists (their chants) that thay are BLM. You have offered no evidence at all. You lose.
Unless you have something. Evidence like the chants. I don't care if you think it's not sufficient evidence for you, some evidence beats your none.
So you have nothing. And you lose.
Some goon chanting a slogan doesn’t make the Black Lives Matter organization affiliated with that goon, or responsible for their actions. No more than a gang member wearing a Raiders jacket makes the Raiders responsible for their actions, or a white supremacist being a fan of Jordan Peterson’s videos makes him responsible for their actions.
And I don’t need to prove a negative. The burden of proof is on Nardz.
That's funny, because you are constantly asking other people for cites to prove negatives.
You are such an appalling hypocrite.
Example of where I have ever asked someone for a cite to prove a negative, please. I simply don’t do that.
Wait, I thought the current line was that the organization might be bad because they had Marxist founding principles, but that didn't matter because the broader movement for police reform was good and not necessarily associated with the organization. Did they flip? Is it now that the the movement is bad because they do violent and disruptive things, but that's okay because the organization is not necessarily associated with them? I can't keep up.
They are two separate arguments. The first has been made a lot by other people, not me.
The second you mischaracterized, so I’ll fix your characterization, to give my actual position: the movement for police reform is confused and ineffective, and has good and bad actors. Some anti-police goons do violent and disruptive things, but those are not activities organized by Black Lives Matter, the organization.
Cite?
https://twitter.com/KanekoaTheGreat/status/1340180468239503361?s=19
When you win a record low 17% of counties, lose Black & Hispanic support, lose 18/19 Bellwether Counties, lose Ohio, Florida, & Iowa — and lose 27/27 House "Toss-Ups" — but you shatter the popular vote record
Maricopa County in Arizona just went to a judge to stop the legislature who suboeonad their voting machines. They are fighting in court to stop any audits. Quite amazing for someone who ran the perfect fraud less election to do.
Antrim County audit showed no problems with Dominion voting machines, and also reveals that supposed “leaked” audit results repeated in alt-right forums were straight up lies.
Cite.
How many cites do you want? I can give you dozens:
https://www.clickondetroit.com/decision-2020/2020/12/18/michigans-audit-of-antrim-county-votes-reaffirms-2020-presidential-election-results/
My goodness this is telling. Remember to always read sarcasmic's cites.
“Today’s full audit in Antrim County confirmed the truth and affirmed the facts: Dominion’s voting machines accurately tabulated the votes cast for president in Antrim County", Benson said on Dec. 17. As a result of the vote audit, Biden lost 1 vote and Trump gained 11 additional votes in Antrim County.
And then the journalist gets excited:
On Monday, Michigan electors gathered to fulfill their constitutional duty to elect the winner of the popular vote for the office of U.S. president and vice president, unanimously casting the state’s 16 Electoral College votes for Biden for president, and Kamala Harris for vice president.
Lol.
lol
So, you are going to dwell on the writer’s tone, and ignore the mathematical facts in the article. Got it.
"mathematical facts"
Wow, you put my words in quotation marks. That’s a powerful refutation.
"The recount was exactly the same"
Except Trump gained votes and Biden lost one in the recount.
mAtHeMatiCaL fAcTs
Wow, you put my words in funny case. Powerful refutation of the mathematical fact that there was no significant difference found between the Dominion machine tally and the hand recount.
Holy shit. That's what you think the audit showed? Lol. Holy fuck man. Prove youre a partisan.
Cite?
"BREAKING: Maricopa County Board Refuses to Allow Audit of Dominion Machines
The Maricopa Board of Supervisors voted 4-1 today defy the state lawmakers and resist complying with legislative subpoenas."
https://electionwiz.com/2020/12/18/breaking-maricopa-county-board-refuses-to-allow-audit-of-dominion-machines/
This isn't strange of course. Innocent people always behave that way.
These are your people, leftitarians
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1340233389413175296?s=19
One of the people at the Red House defended by antifa at the autonomous zone was found guilty of animal abuse. Witness said William Kinney beat two husky puppies by smacking them into the wall. He also was convicted of killing an elderly man in hit & run.
Guilt by association for the win!
Please call more people trump cultists when you cry about this shit.
This is why people think you're a leftist. Even benign criticism of the left elicits a response from you. No one is making you stan for antifa, but you choose to do it anyway. Which would be nothing if you actually did it indiscriminately but I'm pretty sure you don't do it nearly as often for the right. Maybe not ever.
He has yet to criticize the left when not being called out on it.
He also calls anyone right of him a racist as he lives in lily white main and uses his love of a local Mexican place as proof he isnt racist.
It has genuine Yucatan fajitas, how can he be racist against the Mexican race?
Mexican is a nationality, not a race.
Talk to someone in Mexico and there is a high probability they will disagree with you, claiming Mexicans are those who are mestizo.
Which alao isn't a race.
"Mexican is a nationality, not a race."
And fajitas are Texmex.
I was being sarcasmic... or is it White Knightie?
Wow, you are really obsessed with me.
I have no opinion on whether Mexican is a nationality or race.
Do you dream about me at night?
*mock White Knight/sarcasmic in a thread where he's being stupid*
"Oh, oh, he must be obsessed with me. Is he dreaming of me?"
Don't get your panties wet because it's not going to happen. Go back to trying to get Jesse's attention.
Yes, end them. We already had a public health crisis, why add an economic crisis to it? Plus they were illegal -- no governor or health officer has the authority to quarantine healthy people. And they didn't work. The most lockdown heavy state (California) is having a huge surge in cases and hospitalizations now.
It is increasingly likely that herd immunity will arrive in the next several weeks/months (before vaccines will be available to the general public) in hundreds of communities, dozens of counties, and at least several states.
Studies have found 3 - 10 times more Americans were infected with covid (than have tested positive), including a recent study in Texas that found 4 times more Texans had been infected.
Herd immunity is likely to be achieved if/when/after 70% of people (in any community/county/state) have been infected.
According to data from lockdown lovers at Bloomberg/Hopkins, states with the highest rate of covid cases (i.e. the percent of state residents who have tested positive so far) are:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/09/01/816707182/map-tracking-the-spread-of-the-coronavirus-in-the-u-s#curves
ND – 11.7%
SD – 10.6%
IA – 8.4%
WI – 8.4%
NE – 8.0%
UT – 7.7%
TN – 7.4%
RI - 7.3%
ID - 7.2%
MT – 7.1%
WY – 7.1%
IL – 7.0%
MN – 7.0%
KS – 6.9%
IN - 6.7%
AR - 6.5%
NV - 6.5%
AL - 6.4%
MS - 6.4%
OK - 6.4%
And according to data at
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/us-map
counties in the US with the highest covid case rates are:
Crowley, CO – 26.7%
Norton, KS – 21.0%
Bon Homme, SD – 20.6%
Dewey, SD - 20.6%
Chattahoochee, GA – 20.3%
Lincoln, AR – 20.3%
Buffalo, SD – 19.9%
Trousdale, TN – 18.7%
Lake, TN - 18.0%
Buena Vista, IA - 17.6%
Dakota, NE - 16.8%
Eddy, ND - 16.8%
Foster, ND - 16.5%
Lafayette, FL - 16.1%
Ellsworth, KS - 15.9%
Nobles, MN - 15.7%
Seward, KS - 15.7%
Childress, TX - 15.6%
Lee, AR - 15.1%
Big Horn, MT - 15.0%
If anyone knows of any websites that track counties with the highest covid case rates, please post (as I cannot find any, and I compiled the above data on counties by scrolling through every county in dark blue).
CFR continues to decrease quickly.
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/declining-covid-19-case-fatality-rates-across-all-ages-analysis-of-german-data/
But now we cower because of the cold.
Every individual should take precautions they feel are necessary. But no person or government has the right or legal method to prevent healthy persons from excerising their freedom as they choose. We are not breaking any laws. Governors have taken illegal powers they don’t have. This should be heavily litigated to prevent state governments from doing this again.
I think the best way to go about this would be for me to start an informal poll of the commenters here.
Here's the rules:
Reply to this comment with the words "Yes, I believe the lockdowns should continue because I care about the safety of my fellow neighbor" if you agree with the continuation of the lockdowns. Reply "I’m a science-denying *sshole hellbent on destroying the lives of others" if you don't want lockdowns.
At the end of the evening I'll tally the responses, and calculate the winner based on how many people choose option 1 over option 2.
Remember this is non-binding and just for fun, so let's all just have a good time.
Thanks, and I'll see you at the polls!
Yes, I believe the lockdowns should continue because I care about the safety of my fellow neighbor.
Life is about optimizing "safety" for 90-year-olds. Everyone else should give up everything they care about in lifetime optimize for that.
Okay I feel like nobody understood the rules, PLEASE ONLY RESPOND with OPTION 1 or OPTION 2 otherwise this is going to be way too hard to interpret the results at the end of the night. So far, if I had to guess, it's like 4-0 in favor of lockdowns. Everyone who responded with meaningless non-sequiturs, please re-respond with one of the 2 available options.
Everyone who doesn't give up everything in life so 90-year-olds can avoid a moderate risk is evil. What's wrong with you people not willing to starve for months! Come on!
It's not that hard people. Ask anyone working at home getting a full paycheck every month. They will tell you it’s totally doable.
We never had a lock down.
Okay IceTrey I appreciate your interest and I’m not trying to be rude, but is that a vote for option 1 or option 2? I’m honestly trying my best to be nice about all this, but it seems like most people here are too stupid to read simple instructions. This should have been so easy... If you can't figure out what option you're for I’m just going to put you down for option 1.
Polls close at 12am Eastern time so make sure you respond with your correct vote before then.
Presumably, you thought this was clever? Clearly, you're just bored with yourself.
Yes, I believe the lockdowns should continue because I care about the safety of my fellow neighbor.
if that is your rationale for wishing the negative effects of lockdown on the public at large, then I assume you are in favor of them lasting infinitely...because the safety of your fellow neighbors is constantly in danger just by being alive...
not particularly enlightening...
Okay, so one more for lockdowns. I appreciate you actually taking this seriously, unlike most of the others.
What if I say I think that the lockdowns should be eternal? Will I be awarded the use of one of Jeff or Chippers socks?
I'm bored.
I’m concerned that no one is replying to this correctly. Please, answer with option 1 or option 2. I honestly expected more replies by now.
Youre actually asking people to respond to your ridiculous false dichotomy? Lol.
He is completely baffled why no one is following his discussion rules. Must be because he's even more amazingly enlightened than even he thought he was — at least compared to me and you and the rest of the rabble.
It's a parody, he's acting like Chipper and Tony.
The hospitals are full of people gasping for breath. I thought it was Covid, but it's actually from people laughing at this hilarious parody.
We should probably quarantine it.
Well to be fair, Chipper and Tony are pretty much parodies already.
I’m just trying to take a simple poll, you d*ck. Just try answering the question instead of being a d**che. This is supposed to be fun.
"Yes, I believe the lockdowns should continue because I’m a science-denying *sshole hellbent on destroying the lives of others”
FIFY
ATTENTION:
Poll closes at 12am Eastern time, everyone make sure to have your response submitted by then. If I can't figure out what option you were for, I'll just assume you were for option 1.
Thanks,
Pollmaster - (Enlightened Atheist)
But we should totes trust the government-media complex, despite their pattern of behavior
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/rick-moran/2020/12/18/new-york-times-forced-to-retract-hit-isis-podcast-series-because-it-was-a-hoax-n1218390
The “driving force of the story” was The Narrative. Any information that conflicted with The Narrative was dismissed or explained away.
At the heart of the episode was an effort to figure out how the pieces of his story might fit together — if the Times was willing to shift the dates involved. One audio editor described that scenario as “Occam’s razor,” suggesting that it was the simplest resolution to their dilemma and therefore probably the right one.
The “simplest solution” was to falsify the dates?
When in doubt, make stuff up.
There were other red flags that were ignored by senior management. They had a hit and weren’t going to jeopardize the podcast’s popularity by allowing the truth to seep in. They believed Chaudhry’s claims because they desperately wanted to.
They can spin what happened all they want. They can brag about how they’re handling this journalism disaster to anyone who will listen. But this is what happens when The Narrative becomes more important than the simple facts of a story.
https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1340344001069797379?s=19
The easiest way to achieve equity is "everybody gets nothing." ...except the members of the Party who administrate equity. The technical name for this organizational approach is Sovietism.
https://twitter.com/TheRightMelissa/status/1340389352283758593?s=19
Anyone who believes the quicker you give your rights away, the quicker you get your freedoms back has never read a single history book.
https://twitter.com/LeonydusJohnson/status/1340333645425500162?s=19
I was reading some articles on human trafficking and one particular detail stood out to me. They all say that most traffickers identify, target, and leverage their victim's vulnerabilities in order to create dependency
Man...that's exactly what our government is doing to us.
"They [traffickers] will employ a variety of control tactics including physical and emotional abuse, threats, isolation from friends and family, and economic abuse"
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/12/16/when-deplorables-become-ungovernables/
I just want to point out the middle of the country isn't locked down and it's fine. I'm going to Outback for dinner. The Dems are locking down their states to destroy the economy so they can Build Back Better with everyone dependent on government. It's a communist revolution and it will not end until blood is spilled.
I believe that the mid-country is probably fine because the testing is less available and therefore less frequent than larger, more dense populations. I have no proof of this, btw. Just speculating.
The main thing I've noticed since I stopped thinking I was a democrat and now sway in the wind like a sad windsock, is that the libertarians, the right, and the anti-lockdown individuals seem to take their thinking too far; Communism or some other foreboding apocalyptic prediction. Then by leaving open the argument for conspiracy accusations from the Tony
...sent too soon.
I meant to say the TONYS of the world. They'll latch on to that and run with it as the general narrative prescribes.
We should just start beating people until the virus goes away.
http://www.theblogmire.com/2020-the-year-we-lost-the-plot/
“Our Government, along with Governments around the world will shortly announce the quarantining of whole populations for a seasonal respiratory virus which leaves 99.8-99.9% of those who get it in the land of the living. What is more, they will also announce a shutdown of the entire economy for months and then, when the epidemic has actually gone, will mandate that you cover the lower half of your face with a bit of cloth. They will do this by frightening people into compliance with a barrage of propaganda, slogans, data entirely taken out of context, and the threat of massive fines.”
Anyone making this claim at the beginning of the year would rightly have been thought to have mislaid the plot and their marbles, long ago. But here we are, at the end of that same year, and it is precisely what has happened.
Only it is much worse than that.
Had you somehow been persuaded to give credence to this insane prophecy, you would probably have been comforted by the following thought: “They’ll never get away with it. The people will never stand for it.”
Not a bit of it. Somehow, millions of people across the country, and in fact across the world, were persuaded to accept it. By far the majority somehow thought that quarantining whole nations of healthy people for a virus, for the first time in history, was a good idea.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/terrorist-who-murdered-224-people-released-prison-because-covid-19
Terrorist at Risk of Contracting COVID Released From US jail
Adel Abdul Bary is a former Osama Bin Laden henchman convicted of murdering 224 people in two deadly bombings of US embassies in 1998.
But now this terrorist is a free man, because his lawyers successfully argued that his obesity put him at greater risk of dying from COVID-19 in prison.
(Nice to know he was eating so well in prison after murdering hundreds of people.)
Should the COVID-19 lockdowns be replaced with a more targeted strategy?
Hmm. Some might find that rather, um, inflammatory rhetoric.
Even an idiot like me can see that there is not much difference in cases/deaths between states that have strict 'public health orders' and those with lax 'public health orders' (with comparable population densities). Seems to me that the virus doesn't give two shits about what one of these tinpot dictators decrees. I would love to see a real analysis of this. Maybe it exists but I really don't care enough to look it up at this point. I think the targeted approach would've been more successful. Good debate.
yeah, follow the science. unless the data prove you were wrong.
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kisan diwas 2020
Increasingly more local Republican law enforcement officials in PA are refusing to enforce Democrat Gov. Wolf's most recent unconstitutional lockdown (i.e. banning indoor serving at restaurants/bars in PA)
https://triblive.com/local/westmoreland/westmoreland-county-sheriff-wont-enforce-gov-wolfs-new-covid-19-orders/
End the lockdowns and lock up the governors who prevented honest businessmen from earning a living.
It's pretty much where I'm at.
And take epidemiologists like Ferguson with them.
Shame it ended in a tie. Right now, it's the lockdowners in full control unfortunately.
And any lockdowner in my view should be put in prison for the social and economic fraying they are causing.
This is hysteria and some epidemiologists are fuelling it.
Definitely need to be more targeted. We are a construction business with little interface with customers. Most of the work is outdoors in the fresh air. Everyone should want Garage floor coatings BTW. LOL. But I understand those that are more vulnerable need to take greater precautions.
check our website at http://www.bloomingtongaragefloors.com
"Should the COVID-19 lockdowns be replaced with a more targeted strategy?"
Sure. Those individuals at higher risk should take greater precautions. Everyone else, back to work.
There are very few libertarians in NYC. Ever expanding Big Brother drove them out decades ago.
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