Why 1995 is the Year that Created the Future

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How did Timothy McVeigh, O.J. Simpson, Monica Lewinsky, and the Netscape IPO all shape the word we live in today? American University professor of journalism W. Joseph Campbell sat down with Reason TV's Nick Gillespie to discuss the misunderstood, often nostalgized, and wildly underappreciated decade of the 1990s in his new book, 1995: The Year the Future Began

Campbell argues that the last years of the millenium were much more than a "holiday from history" as we awaited the terror attacks of 9/11. From the dawn of the Internet to the post-Cold War complexities of foreign policy, the 1990s set the stage for the most enduring issues of the 21st century.

Runs about 26 minutes.

Produced by Todd Krainin. Interview by Nick Gillespie. Cameras by Meredith Bragg and Krainin.

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INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT FOLLOWS

reason: You talk about 1995, 20 years ago, as a clear starting point for contemporary life, a hinge moment, and the first year of the 21st century. What do you mean by that?

Campbell: Well it was a year of multiple watersheds really, and these watersheds add up to the recognition that this was a decisive year, this was the inaugural year really of the 21st century. It was the year in which we can recognize a lot of the elements of what we live with now, so it was really the year the future began, and the watersheds that I discuss in the book include the rise of the Internet. Now the Internet wasn't invented in 1995, but it entered the mainstream consciousness.

reason: Talk a little bit about the signal events that made it. The web had been around a few years, the Internet for a couple of decades, but, so there was, for instance, the Netscape IPO.

Campbell: That's right. The Netscape IPO in August of 1995, was really a moment that illuminated the web for a lot of people. Netscape of course made a fantastic browser, and it was very popular. The company had only been in existence for a year and a half when it had this IPO, and it went through the roof literally, and the shares were incredibly important and valuable, and Netscape showed that some people could make money on the internet, but more importantly, it illuminated the web for a lot of people who weren't familiar with it and weren't aware.

reason: It seems so long ago, because Netscape's fortunes—we might as well be talking about A&P or Sears Roebuck or something.

Campbell: Exactly. The trajectory of Netscape was even briefer than that. It was from like 1994 to 1999. So it really was meteoric, and it became a terrific property. It was a terrific company. And it embraced a lot of the swagger and potential of the web.

reason: Marc Andreessen, one of the co-founders of Netscape. If Jim Morrison was the ultimate, first real rock star, Andreessen was the first real web star.

Campbell: Exactly. And I wish I had said that for the book. It happens to be accurate. He really was. And he was really in his early 20s, just out of college when he co-founded Netscape. He and his partners recruited some of his buddies from the University of Illinois, where he had developed a browser before coming to California to start up Netscape, and these guys made a new browser that was wildly popular.

reason: These guys were somewhat trenched in history. They were coming out of a tradition, but it was mostly that they were young and looking forward and weren't going to play by the old rules. 

Campbell: In many respects, that's true. And they were kind of setting their own rules, and the Internet allowed people to do that, because nobody knew what this was going to look like. In fact, up until the mid-90s really, they thought the Internet would be a component, a sub element of a broader information superhighway. 

reason: That was also in the mid-90s… People are afraid of change, and the web becoming kind of commercialized and a mass medium, people freaked out, and Congress in 1996 ended up passing the Communications Decency Act as part of the Telecom Act, which would have regulated the Internet effectively like a broadcast network. What happened that that did not take place?

Campbell: Well that piece of legislation, the Communications Decency Act, was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, and I believe it was a unanimous decision, but I believe it was overwhelmingly unconstitutional and recognized as such, but it was an early an attempt by Congress to begin to grapple with the potential, the deleterious potential of the web, of the new technology, and a lot of people thought this was going to be just a cesspool of pornography and nothing redeeming about it at all. In fact, some of the Congressman and senators behind the Communications Decency Act had very little firsthand familiar with what they were trying to regulate.

reason: that's shocking. That they have no idea what they're talking about. 

Campbell: (laughs) Yeah, you have to pass it to understand what's in it. But it was a real shocking attempt to regulate this emergent technology, and it probably would have strangled it in its infancy. But it was also a moment in which a lot of people who were advocates of the web vigorously opposed these measures and ultimately prevailed. 

reason: Let's talk about some of the other events. You talk about the Oklahoma City bombing. How did that exemplify the end of an old order and the beginning of the contemporary moment.

Campbell: It really did, and it was a shocking attack deep in the American heartland, an attack without warning. And interestingly, the initial reaction to the bombing was that it had to have been Middle East terrorists. The news media really went hard on that angle. So did the FBI. But it turned out to be an act of domestic terrorism with a very small band of disgruntled army veterans.

reason: McVeigh pretty much is the only person who was directly involved, and then he had a couple of associates. 

Campbell: That's right. Terry Nichols was helping him and helped put together the bomb that was the truck bomb that he delivered outside the Oklahoma City federal building, and then there was a third co-conspirator, Michael Fortier, who knew about but didn't say anything to authorities.

reason: But he didn't know exactly when it was going to happen, etc.

Campbell: He knew were McVeigh had targeted, though.

reason: In a similar way, if part of the emergence of the world wide web was the idea that a couple of individuals coming out of nowhere could massively transform the world in a positive way, the Oklahoma City bombing is kind of the dark inversion of that.

Campbell: You can look at it that way for sure. In the immediate aftermath of the Oklahoma City bombing, U.S. government began to put in place restrictions on American life that have only become since then more apparent, onerous, and even more accepted I think by many Americans. But some of the initial measures that were put in place—the blocking off of two blocks of Pennsylvania Avenue nearest the White House to thwart the potential attack of the White House by a truck bomb a la Oklahoma City—and that was done without any forewarning, without any debate at all. It was essentially a secret service directive to protect the president from a potential attack, and that effort to prevent or guard against the prospect of terrorist attacks has become more and more apparent over the years and certainly accelerated after 9/11. 

reason: And it's interesting that the OKC bombing, much more than the first attack on the World Trade Center, which was 1993, that OKC bombing had such an effect, because after the World Trade Center bombing, there wasn't much of an official response.

Campbell: There was some, but it wasn't the intense and prolonged response that we saw in the OKC aftermath that's for sure. Because the OKC bombing had the effect of rejuvenating some federal legislation that really got dormant on anti-terror efforts and some of these measures are very draconian and would allow for the deportation of non-U.S. citizens on the flimsiest of evidence. And so some of this reaction was really intense, and you're right. We did not see that in the aftermath of the first World Trade Center bombing.

reason: One of the other major spectacles you talk about is the O.J. Simpson trial. How does that inaugurate the world we're living in? 

Campbell: You know it was a spectacle, and it spread kind of like a stain across the year. It began in January of 1995 and ended with Simpson's acquittal of the two murder charges in October of 1995—a lasting effect. It introduced to a mainstream audience the potential value of forensic DNA evidence, and this was a key part of the trail. The prosecution's case against O.J. was that they had no murder weapon, no confession, no witnesses. But they did have what they called a mountain of blood evidence, the DNA evidence that clearly pointed to O.J. Simpson's guilt. The defense's strategy was not to challenge the validity of the DNA evidence or science behind it, but actually to challenge the way it was handled, processed, analyzed, and so forth in the laboratory, as well as being collected at the scene, and they were able to demonstrate just how poorly it was done at all those levels, impugning this evidence that made in my view acquittal inevitable. 

reason: Which is all so fascinating that we enter into this phase in which science is going to clear up all the obfuscations of the universe, and at the very moment we're learning how perfect DNA evidence is, we learn there's a human element that renders it unusable. So it's a bizarre kind of irony. 

Campbell: It is. It's an intriguing point. It also had the effect of stimulating efforts and attempts and methodologies to collect this evidence in an proper way so that it could be properly analyzed and properly presented in court. So it cleaned up really the efforts to collect and process this evidence. 

reason: What do you see in the coverage of the trial its legacy to the news media. It helped mainstream the 24/7 news cycle.

Campbell: In a way it did. The case was so unique and so unlike most murder trials, that it's hard to draw a lot of parallels and make a lot of generalities to generalize from this case, but nonetheless, it does remain the standard against which other high-profile prominent murder trials are assessed and inevitably found wanting. If you think in the past 20 years, there have been many murder trials that have been likened to the O.J. trial, but really weren't in terms of the duration, in terms of the sustained media interest, and in terms of the controversies too. None of them really have captured those elements that so define the O.J. trial.

reason: What do you make of the racial dynamics of the O.J. trial? The 90s was an era in which the old racial categories were being exhausted. O.J. himself was in many ways considered an "honorary white person." Tiger Woods emerged as a multi-ethnic [Caplanasian?], the reaction to the verdict was split almost completely down racial lines.

Campbell: That's right. There are a number of reasons for those reactions, and one of the reasons why it was so vivid and so widely noted is that the verdict was announced at a set hour. The judge who presided over the trial in Los Angeles said, well the verdict is in, but we're going to announce it tomorrow at 10 o'clock Pacific time, so everybody in the country really was… The New York Times called it an eerie moment of national communion. The country shut down in anticipation of the O.J. verdicts—not guilty, guilty, and a lot of people were just gathered around TV and radio sets to know the verdict. Not knowing was an impossibility.

reason: And to the real publicity splash of the low speed chase, which kind of inaugurated the media coverage during the NBA Finals when another vast TV audience was in place.

Campbell: Absolutely, and the audience in October of 1995 was even greater and was probably unlike any moment in American history except perhaps the first lunar landing, where everyone know when it was going to happen but nobody knew what the outcome was going to be, and the country essentially shut down. Nobody would get on flights until the verdict. The telephone volume dropped off dramatically. So the Simpson verdict was wildly anticipated, but I think some of the important elements of the reaction and how that was interpreted was probably misinterpreted by the news media as a black-white kind of divide. Not all whites thought Simpson was guilty and not all blacks thought he was not guilty. So there was that element that was not well captured by the news media, and at the same time, Colin Powell was out with a memoir, was doing a book tour, and was called the most popular American of any color by one columnist, so Colin Powell was there, and he was thinking about a run for president in 1996, so you had O.J. on one hand, where reactions seemed to be suggesting there was this national divide along racial lines, and you had Colin Powell on the other, who everyone, black and white, was coalescing around.

reason: And then we had Bill Clinton as the "first black president" too, so it was definitely a hinge moment. 

Campbell: And Clinton was very concerned about the possibility of Colin Powell mounting a campaign against him. Powell eventually decided in November of 1995 that he wasn't going to run.

reason: The Dayton Peace Accords —you use Peter Barnhart's term about the "hubris bubble." What did the Dayton Peace Accords—what did they signal in American culture?

Campbell: Well this was a moment where muscular American diplomacy brought an end to the worst conflict in Europe since the time of the Nazis, since the end of WWII, and that's the war in Bosnia, which 100,000 people were killed in this conflict, this 2-3 year conflict, one that the European powers couldn't resolve despite many efforts to try. The United States, through the good services and talents of Richard Holbrook, who then was an assistant Secretary of State, brought the representatives of the three countries involved—Bosnia, Serbia, and Croatia—the heads of state to Dayton, Ohio, to the Wright-Paterson Air Force base and kept them there in essentially radio silence until they thrashed out an agreement to this long war in Bosnia, and that was the first clear major foreign policy success of the Clinton administration, and it really did give the administration a lift. It really boosted the administration's ability to feel good about itself, to bring about a successful conclusion to a thorny foreign policy.

reason: And this was at a time when people were talking about the incredible shrinking presidency in Bill Clinton after he had lost control of Congress in the 1994 election, so he was kind fo evaporating, and this helped bring him back. 

Campbell: That and the government shutdown of mid-November 1995, in which Clinton outmaneuvered essentially Newt Gingrich and the House Republicans and sort of came out on top—at least by public opinion polls. So that happened in mid-November 1995. In the third week of November, there's the Dayton Peace Accords. The accords are initialed in Dayton, signed in Paris amid great pomp and circumstance. Now Clinton did agree to send 20,000 U.S. troops as part of a larger NATO peacekeeping force to Bosnia, which was a very politically risky decision. It turned out well, because no American casualties were counted.

reason: This is kind of what inflated the hubris bubble, right? The legacy then is that, "Ok, well we're America," and you talk about how Clinton didn't use the term "American exceptionalism, but he brought it back in vogue, that all we have to do is come in and star making people talk, and we can fix any problem in any country anywhere. 

Campbell: Essentially. And without us, it's not going to work. Without us, peace in Bosnia is not going to last. Without our presence of troops there, it's not going to happen. So this notion of American exceptionalism—you're right. He didn't call it that, but that's exactly what he was referring to. It really took hold and it undergirded this hubris bubble that began expanding in the aftermath of Dayton, and it was accompanied by a muscular approach to foreign policy, a willingness to use force to achieve foreign policy ends, and we saw this in Iraq in 1998, when Clinton ordered the bombing of Iraq to supposedly degrade Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction arsenal. You also saw it in the Kosovo war of 1999. You certainly saw it in the aftermath of 9/11, with the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan and then in Iraq starting in 2003, so this hubris bubble kept expanding until it didn't burst in the insurgency that the U.S. was totally unprepared for in the aftermath of the invasion of Iraq. 

reason: Clinton meets Lewinsky—obviously they met in 1995, what is the enduring legacy of that whole story?

Campbell: I think that legacy is still being written. I think part of the legacy is the sharp political cleavage that we see in the country today in terms of the partisanship—Democrat-Republican, left and right. And it's a mistake to say it was only because the impeachment wars of 1998 and 1999 that we have this political division today, but it certainly was a contributing factor. The impeachment votes in December of 1998 were clearly along party lines. The two counts that Congress approved, the House approved, most Republicans favored, most Democrats opposed, and same for the votes to convict or acquit him in the Senate in November of 1999, most Republicans voted to convict him, and most Democrats voted against. And it had no chance of ever getting to the two-thirds level that was needed. But what's intriguing about 1995 in this whole scandal was: If it were not for the government shutdown of mid-November 1995, Clinton and Lewinsky would have never had an opportunity to get close. She was a nominal White House intern at the time, and because of the shutdown, most White House staffers, as well as most federal employees were sent home or stayed home. They were furloughed. And into this breached into the White House entered the cadre of interns who filled the jobs of answering the phones and doing whatever had to be done to keep the place functioning.

reason: You mention in the book that Lewinsky believed that Clinton's actual White House girlfriend had been furloughed.

Campbell: (laughs) That's right. She was under the impression that he had another girlfriend, that she was like a temporary fill-in. Her assignment was in the chief of staff's office, which is down the corridor from the oval office. Had it not been for that shutdown, she would have never had the opportunity to get close.

reason: I can remember when Clinton took office, people were like, "He's not taking the office of president seriously." And there was a whole flap about his weak military salute to people and stuff like that. And then the Lewinsky incident really changed the picture of the president. Everybody knows that presidents have behaved poorly in their personal lives, but this was inescapable, and it was on TV. Is that part of this legacy, that in many of the things you're talking about here, established authority is kind of taking it on the chin in many of the events you mention in 1995. Is that part of the legacy of Clinton meeting Lewinsky? 

Campbell: It could be. I think another legacy of Clinton meeting Lewinsky is that we know it's very difficult to impeach a president, and we're not going to be doing this again for the kind of misconduct that Clinton was guilty of. He clearly perjured himself in a federal deposition and probably committed obstruction of justice too, which are akin to the crimes that Richard Nixon was forced out of office for. He really obstructed justice in the Watergate scandal, but that was an order of magnitude more serious than what Clinton did. 

reason: He resigned before he was going to face all of that too, which is part of the fascinating of Clinton is—just stick it out. If you can outlast your enemies, you can hang on no matter what.

Campbell: And he had the good fortune, Clinton, of having enemies who were so bungling and so inept that they in effect became his allies. He ran against George H.W. Bush in 1992 for the presidency. Bush by then was kind of out of touch and perceived widely as such. In 1996 for reelection, Clinton ran against Bob Dole, who was like 73 years old and not the most vigorous Republican.

reason: Who had pledged to only serve one term.

Campbell: And then Kenneth Starr, who was the independent council who investigated Clinton's misconduct also was kind of tone deaf and didn't have the political skills or wiliness of Clinton and was clearly outmaneuvered by him. 

reason: Is the real legacy of the Clinton presidency is to just keep doing what you're doing?

Campbell: If you have the skills to be able to maneuver that way, I think so. And I'm not sure Obama's quite as politically skilled as Clinton. I mean, he is plowing ahead, and his popularity seems to be rising a bit, but we're talking about Clinton in the 60s of approval rating late in his second term, and we don't see that at all with Obama. 

reason: When will we know that the 90s have ended? 

Campbell: We need a little bit of critical distance to make that determination. It could have been that it ended with 2001. Some people make the argument that the 90s became—I'm not a serious subscriber to this, but it's an intriguing case—that the 90s began with the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, signaling the end of communism in Eastern Europe. And then the 90s continued until September of 2001 with the terrorist attack of that day, so that could be a way in which you're looking at the 1990s. The 90s are so popular in some popular cultural kind of way that it seems like you hear often references to "the 90s are back." There's 90s nostalgia that seems to be very strong.

reason: The 1950s, particularly by conservatives the 1980s, the 1950s became this decade when everything was great. Women stopped working, which was good for conservatives, people stopped getting divorced, the economy boomed, there were no problems, kids were respective of their elders, and yet if you go back and look at the 1950s, it's a decade of Catcher in the Rye, of The Wild One, of Rebel Without a Cause, of Why Johnny Can't Read, of Growing Up Absurd, of the Beatniks, and of absolute moral and mental and urban chaos. And then other decades, like the 70s are seen as generally negative, but there was a lot of really fascinating stuff going on economically in terms of deregulation of airlines and railroads and trucking, as well as a lot of lifestyle experimentation which people now would see as a good thing. What makes a decade be seen through rosy-colored glasses or through very dark glasses? 

Campbell: That's a very good question. The passage of time helps explain that. The zeitgeist of the 90s is still being written. You're right, the zeitgeist of the 50s was this placid time when everyone was sort of at peace and prosperity reigned—you have sort of that too with the second half. The country's largely at peace, the economy's booming, there's this new fascinating technology that everyone's getting into… It was a great time. But there are other folks—Charles Krauthammer, for example, calls the 90s a "holiday from history" mostly saying that to excoriate Clinton and his policy on terrorism, but still, I think "holiday from history" is probably an exaggeration too. It was not that simplistic obviously. There were a lot of important major issues that we're still grappling with today—everything from foreign policy issues to the rise of the Internet.

reason: And we're going to be talking about net neutrality, which 20 years later is another attempt by the government to regulate or constrain the Internet according to its vision of what is fair and right. 

Campbell: Absolutely. These attempts to label a decade tend inevitably to be simplistic, superficial, and misleading. So I don't think the zeitgeist of the 90s is yet written, and it's certainly not a holiday from history. It's certainly not the time in which nothing much happened and we were kind of beginning to set ourselves up for the terrorist attacks of 9/11.

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231 responses to “Why 1995 is the Year that Created the Future

  1. forgot about windows 95 – pretty much kicked off popular use of computers for alot of people.

    1. Popular use of computers was probably kicked off by Win 3.1, if not earlier.

      Win 95 however made Microsoft-bashing mainstream and socially acceptable. 🙂

  2. Ah, yes, the ritual “sitting down”.
    But I’m pretty sure you could pick several other years and make the same sort of claims; weak tea.

    1. I came here what Sevo already said.

      So I’ll just say, “Thanks, Sevo”

      1. A cane tip to Sevo?

        1. My mom and sister bought me a cane for my birthday. It’s from England and it’s REALLY nice.

          Now I need a monocle and tophat…

          1. You don’t have a monocle? What is this all about?

            1. I have two monocles that I call “eyeglasses”, for the present.

              1. You can fix that with wire cutters.

          2. For some reason I read about your cane and imagined you have gout. Maybe it’s the lingering mental image of the bacon crust pizza

            1. Almanian! is old. And Sevo is even older.

  3. Was the year Brian Williams ____________ (fill in the blank

    1. Landed on the moon

    2. Met your Future Reptile Overlords?

    3. Defeated the last vestiges of communism

    4. Found Nicole Simpson’s REAL killer.

    5. Smoked marijuana for the first time.

    6. Killed Osama

    7. Tried to deliver pizza to a cryogenic processing facility, but ended up stumbling into a suspended animation pod only to wake up a thousand years into the future?

      1. Whoa! Cool story, bro!

    8. Was Chris Kyle’s spotter.

    9. Invented the INTERNET!
      Oh, wait…

    10. The correct answer is that he took Screetch’s virginity on an episode of Saved By The Bell then later did the same to actor Dustin Diamond.

    11. Met his wife, Morgan Fairchild

      1. Ooooh, Dunphy’s gonna be pissed! Smooches!

      2. Lost his butt cherry.

  4. Campbell: Well that piece of legislation, the Communications Decency Act, was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, and I believe it was a unanimous decision, but I believe it was overwhelmingly unconstitutional and recognized as such, but it was an early an attempt by Congress to begin to grapple with the potential, the deleterious potential of the web, of the new technology, and a lot of people thought this was going to be just a cesspool of pornography and nothing redeeming about it at all. In fact, some of the Congressman and senators behind the Communications Decency Act had very little firsthand familiar with what they were trying to regulate.

    I vaguely remember this period in American legislative nonsense. It criminalized transmitting porn over networks and would’ve imposed prison sentences on transgressors, and it was hugely popular. Bill Clinton, that paragon of decency, loved the idea of tossing sexual deviants who like porn into prison and pushed hard for the bill to pass along with his mortal enemies who courted the Moral Majority vote.

    In retrospect, there’s nothing about the PATRIOT Act or SOPA or the nationalization of healthcare or the internet that should’ve surprised us. We’ve taken a few steps since FDR’s day (the lion’s share due to Rand, Friedman, and Read), but for the most part the legislature & courts are just as willing to roll over for executive authority now as then.

    1. “the potential, the deleterious potential of the web, of the new technology, and a lot of people thought this was going to be just a cesspool of pornography and nothing redeeming about it at all.”

      How disappointing that it didn’t live up to the hype.

  5. Fuck you AT&T. I hate you

    1. You don’t even know hate until you’ve been given the opportunity to hate Comcast.

      1. I’m not in their fiefdom. I have Fios Triple Penetration or whatever it’s called.

        1. Thank the invisible sky gods for that.

          1. I am bound to AT&T though. If they push me far enough, they’ll pay just like sprint did.

            We have something here called “Court Call”. You can appear before a judge via phone, which beats having to go downtown, pay for parking, and wait in line.

            The rules state very clearly that there are no cell phones allowed. You MUST use a land line. Of course, nobody follows that rule. It’s risky, though. If the call drops during the hearing, you’re looking at a contempt charge or maybe even getting the whole case thrown out.

            So I have an M-Cell to route cell calls through the internet. Of course, it’s broken. So I had to go the AT&T store. They seem to have copied everything that’s evil about the Apple Store. Assholes with tablets walking about, no indication of who is in charge. I bought a new one, and I’m still trouble shooting. I hope to be done by Monday.

            Fuck AT&T.

            1. Until you stop goving them money, they own you.

            2. I messed up. I saw a shiny iPhone 6 plus.

            3. GG well played.

  6. Heck yeah didnt AOL come out in 1995? AOL rocked the world!

    http://www.AnonWeb.cf

    1. You’re not helping your credibility, anonbot.

      1. You mean hir credibility that s/he’s not a real human? Looks like that one’s pretty well blown by this comment.

  7. Well, 1995 gave us Michael Mann’s Heat and Toy Story. But it also gave us Waterworld.

    1. Heat in 5.1 sound was awesome. I remember watching the shootout scene over and over.

      1. Sure was. Loved that sound of all the empty shells bouncing around on the pavement

        1. I know what I’m doing tonight.

    2. I actually think Waterworld is an ejoyable post apocalyptic action flick. Dennis Hopper is great as the bad guy.

    3. It gave us Heat, but it also gave us Jagged Little Pill. It’s almost…what’s the word?

      1. 10,000 spoons, when you’re morally opposed to spoons?

  8. Is this Late Nite Links?

    1. So let it be written – so let it be done!

      1. I think we all should base this year’s donations on 2 things:

        1. Late Nite Links creation

        2. Edit feature

        1 of the 2 gets 50% intended donation. 2 of 2 gets 100%. 0 of 2 gets not jack shit.

        It’s like politics, sooner of later you gotta make em deliver or you wind up with nothing.

        All I have now is a beanie and a free script to the reason rag.

        1. Welch sometimes posted an “Open Thread” link. It died while The Independents was on the air. It probably needs to be resurrected.

          1. Independents died that Open Thread may live! Let us rejoice and be glad in it….

            1. Almanian!|2.20.15 @ 7:45PM|#
              “Independents died that Open Thread may live! Let us rejoice and be glad in it….

              Are we not LIBERTARIANS?
              ALL threads are open threads!

              1. The first rule is that all threads are open threads. The second rule is that you do not discuss fight club.

          2. I think it’s more of a timing thing. It seems we do have a lot of west coast posters. And even though I’m on the east coast, I tend to ramp up later in the evening.

        2. “I have come here to make a donation to Reason and chew bubble gum. And I’m all out of bubble gum…”

        3. 3. Recipe thread

        4. A blog front page that doesn’t freeze the browser while it is loading?

          I honestly don’t know if the rest of the site suffers from the same bullshit, but HtR? Fuuuuuuuuuck.

    2. Why do we need Late Night Links? The libertarian curfew is 10 PM EST after all.

      1. I’ve noticed that, you schmucks!

      2. The clock just ticked 10:00PM, what do I win?

        1. A more accurate clock.

      3. So much for libertarians letting you stay up late and eat ice cream.

        1. Now, I’m not accusing anyone of anything…

          “How Marijuana Hijacks Your Brain To Create The Munchies”
          http://washingtonstate.org/how…..-munchies/

  9. “Little Caesars is rolling out a deep-dish pizza with a crust wrapped in 3.5 feet of bacon.”

    http://time.com/3713252/little…..zza-crust/

    1. Wow. Talk about an approach/avoidance conflict…

      1. Speaking of, Shamrock Shakes are back.

    2. 3.5 feet of bacon

      That was a big pig

      1. Meh – it’s alllll in how ya slice ’em

        1. What, you adding circumcision to the topic mix?

          1. If the foreskin don’t fit, you must acquit.

    3. Maybe we can send ISIS some of those as a peace offering.

      1. We want to make them LESS angry. He did say Little Caesars.

    4. “Promoted with the tagline “in bacon we crust,”

      I don’t think they’re going to win any advertising awards. Just a hunch

    5. “Promoted with the tagline “in bacon we crust,” ”

      I see this in my future. My wife is a sucker for food puns.

      1. You missed the part about it being Little Caesars. They are 1000 times worse than Chipotle.

        1. Mother of Mercy, is the end of Rico?

        2. And bacon. She is a sucker for bacon.

          She will not be able to resist.

          1. I made some outstanding beef bacon beans tonight. The top secret recipe:

            2 cans Bush Baked Beans
            1 package Beef Bacon

            My wife is a jew. I can’t make it the correct way.

            1. Dude, add in some garlic, beef broth, white pepper, 1/2 onion and a few drops of bitters or/and worchestershire.

              Also, sear your beef before adding.

              I already ate but you just made me hungry again. Dammit. I will have another vodka.

              1. The beef bacon is a hickory smoked beef plate. Soooo fatty. It can flavor anything.

            2. Is it kosher? I still don’t get understand what that is. I live in a neighborhood that is like at least 50% Jewish.

              1. Beef isn’t pork, so it’s close enough. She doesn’t read labels and check for the circle K.

                But I have seen some Kosher certified smoked beef plate. They don’t call it bacon, because that would be wrong.

              2. I live in a neighborhood that is like at least 50% Jewish.

                Owings Mills?

                1. Beverly Hills?

                  1. Clifton?
                    BTW, Bush’s Baked Beans are one of those ‘why should I make this from scratch anymore’ things like Best Foods Mayo.
                    Yeah, if I really try, I might make some slight improvement that *I’d* notice…

                    1. It was the main course tonight. Seriously. That’s a big deal in my house.

    6. This is the proper fate for critics of Little Caesars:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi5KtR34hJQ

  10. But I’m pretty sure you could pick several other years and make the same sort of claims; weak tea.

    Threadwinner.

    +100 Sevo.

    1. Oooh. Another cane tip.

    2. Just remember when you tell your friends, as I’m sure you want to do: It’s pronounced with a long “e”.
      Thank ya! Thank ya ver much!

      1. SEH-VO

        got it

      2. Is it French?

  11. I think 1996 was the start of the 21st century. ID4 was the symbolic destruction of the 20th century. Nintendo 64 came out. The Star Wars special editions had not yet come out. Arnold Jingled All the Way. Kerri Strug saved the Olympics. Billy Corgan had just gone bald. Alanis Morrissette was ironically unironic. The Unabomber was arrested. Mount Everest experienced it was most lethal climbing season. Osama bin laden put a jihad on us. The Yankees beat the Braves. Alan Greenspan declared a irrational exuberance. Next was bought by Apple. Michael Jordan space jammed, and Jean Luc Picard sought revenge against the Borg while Zephram Cochran made First Contact with the Vulcans.

    Drops mic.

    1. When was the OJ chase?

      1. October 1995.

        1. Consider the argument settled.

        2. June 1994

          I was at 75 feet baseball practice that day.

        3. I thought you said case. It was June 1994.

    2. “Michael Jordan space jammed, and Jean Luc Picard sought revenge against the Borg”

      I remember seeing both of those movies with my dad. The Borg were way cooler than the crappy contemporized Looney Tunes characters.

      1. You will not talk shit about Space Jam. Not in my presence.

      2. Yeah, Space Jam was cool mostly for Michael Jordan and the soundtrack.

        1. Bill Murray was also great in it. It had jokes that you could never get away with today.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LH8qisTVj0

          1. I hope Michael Jordan will be as good as he was in Space Jam in the new Fantastic Four Movie.

        2. That R Kelly song, “I believe she was five. I believed that I touched her thigh.”

  12. Christ, I remember being at a church youth camp in 1990 and a brother in the lord who also masturbated to Madonna and Claudia Schiffer came to me and said, “Brother Agile, you need to create websites because you are talented at art and design.” He was a strange yet oddly lovable Pakistani boy attending Michigan state with bulging eyes and two supremely beautiful sisters. I did not follow his advice. And, I rue this even though I did make money in other preoccupations. However, I cannot forget this Pakistani boy with all his interesting baggage.

    1. Too coherent to be Agile Cyborg.

      1. Give him time.

        He will become less coherent yet no less poetic. It beats anything I have ever seen.

        I hope Reason archives are inscribed on the skin of the universe forever so that Agile Cyborg’s comments are immortal.

        *poor showing I know, but it is in tribute to him.

      2. Let us welcome the new, (comparatively) sober AC!

      3. So my phase fluctuates. Is this what Winston implies? Well I do admit to riding an odd assortment of ponies from time to time and I’ve been known to dance to an interminable cadence but ‘too fucking coherent’… Dear gentleman of the thread please beat a hasty retreat to the safety of your own spaceship or I shall be forced to zap you with a thousand volts of ninja.

    2. The early Madonna nudes from the 1980s were a true turn-on. She was a true brunette obviously.

      1. Most women are brunettes downstairs. Not that you should know that.

        1. ButtPig only knows what color Obama’s asshole is.

          1. I have an educated guess.

  13. Great takedown of a true scumbag:

    Rudy Giuliani knows a lot about love.

    Ask Regina Peruggi, the second cousin he grew up with and married, who was “offended” when Rudy later engineered an annulment from the priest who was his best man on the grounds, strangely enough, that she was his cousin. Or ask Donna Hanover, the mother of his two children, who found out he wanted a separation when he left Gracie Mansion one morning and announced it at a televised press conference.

    Rudy may have forgotten the half-dozen deferments he won ducking the Vietnam War, even getting the federal judge he was clerking for to write a letter creating a special exemption for him. And remember Bernie Kerik? He’s the Giulaini police commissioner, business partner and sidekick whose nomination as homeland security secretary narrowly preceded indictments. He then did his national service in prison.

    Giuliani went so far as to rebuke the President for not being “brought up the way you were and the way I was brought up through love of this country,” a bow no doubt to the parenting prowess of ,bHarold Giuliani, who did time in Sing Sing for holding up a Harlem milkman and was the bat-wielding enforcer for the loan-sharking operation run out of a Brooklyn bar owned by Rudy’s uncle.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/opi…..-1.2122253

    1. Yawn

      1. I hate these fucking police-state pro-war con-men hypocrites who dodged the draft when they were younger.

        Of course Rudy is GOP so you “yawn” since he in on your team.

        1. I hate him. I have actual personal experience with him, and he is awful.

          But you posted it, and you have…. issues.

          1. Yup all the issues of ‘Sheep Wearing Rubber Panties’ except for issue 3, which in fairness is almost impossible to get ahold of.

            1. So wrong. Sheep should go commando. Easier pickins that way.

        2. I hate these fucking police-state pro-war con-men hypocrites who dodged the draft when they were younger.

          Tongue some more Hillary gash for us, Plugbutt…

    2. Well, look at the club he is in:

      http://www.breitbart.com/video…..rom-aspen/

      1. Fuck Bloomberg. He is as bad as Ruby Guiliani.

        Ed Koch was a shit too as well as the new guy. Obviously being Boss of New York is an authoritarian asshole’s job.

    3. He’s lickin those cankles

      He’s cuckoo for Hillary

      He’s licking those cankles

      Lick those cankles, ButtPig, lick em!

      1. He already has his KFC 2016 Hillary Bucket. 2 Fat thighs and 2 left wings.

        1. How often do you two suck each others cock?

          1. We don’t have to, we have you, sweety.

          2. Dude, I hate everyone in charge. You only hate Republicans (in spite of what you say).

            You slurp D cock every chance you get, particularly with healthcare and the economy.

            Project much?

            I get that your extended Republican family disapproves of your reckless, impulsive life choices. But this isn’t group therapy, bro. Sort it out somewhere else.

            1. Turd just wants help with his daddy-issues!

              1. My fee schedule starts out at $575 an hour. Maybe he can just get C. to give him the meds.

                1. Don’t take a check; turd lies.

                  1. I assume he would pay me in singles.

                    1. His moms once came home with $100.25 after a hard night working. Her boyfriend pimp asked who gaver her the quarter. She replied that all of them did!

        2. Playa-

          You forgot the two small breasts, you ignorant drive-thru window jockey. :o)

  14. Pshaw 1985 is the year that created the future:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXN6tgE4g_4

  15. the 1990s set the stage for the most enduring issues of the 21st century.

    You mean past events have an effect 20 years later? How profound. We definitely need a book on that. Did you know that what happened yesterday has an effect today?

    1. “You mean past events have an effect 20 years later? How profound.”

      If you mention this to turd, I’m sure you can get several replies all referring to “BOOOOOOOOSH!”

  16. Semi-related…in the sense that it involves a designer talking to a client who wants a website that is like 90s web design on acid (the comments give the link to it, but I won’t link to it here to avoid people trying to hunt me down and kill me)

    http://clientsfromhell.net/pos…..-site-ever

    1. I’m gonna file that under “Things that are not real”.

    2. Mr. Simpson of the cartoons had a page like that, all items stolen.

    3. Here’s a video LSD trip that really works.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9uYEM2osYQ

  17. Long week. Just chased a double bourbon with a large bottle of Hardywood Raspberry Stout. Feeling much better.

    1. I’m lagging.

  18. I just came from a lecture where the speaker (a boomer) made a pretty good case that the world changed irrevocably on 11/22/1963.

    1. I don’t see what Stephen King has to do with it.

    2. Yup, the Beatles released their second album AND C.S. Lewis died. Huge day.

      1. Aldous Huxley died too.

        1. Lou Reed is dead. Did you know this?

    3. Sorry, but that’s a tired argument: the innocence of America blown away on the streets of Dallas.

      1. No, his point was the innocence was blow away for boomers – that we started to question authority then instead of respecting it like good citizens (our parents) taught us to.

        1. You think that’s correct? There was a lot of challenge to authority before then wasn’t there? Sit ins started in the late ’50s, Freedom Riders in 1961, Port Huron Statement was 1962.

        2. Speaking as a boomer, I didn’t have any desire to have him dead, but as far as I was concerned, it was a couple of days with the school closed.
          Never bought the Camelot marketing and at the time, the fed gov’t really was pretty irrelevant on the local level.
          Then we got LBJ, and his wife wanted to close all the junk yards were we scrounged parts for our cars; ugh!
          Maybe that was the ‘loss of innocence’.

    4. Last day for a Doctor Who free world?

  19. The best alcohol that has ever been created, and I’ve tried most of it, is J.K.’s Scrumpy Hard Cider. And I don’t even like cider. I have a bottle of it ice cold, ready to drink. This shit is elixir of the gods.

    1. Thanks for the heads-up.Will look for it here.

      1. It’s sort of an unfiltered pungent tasting thing. There’s just something about the taste that I love, and the buzz… Well for me there’s a big difference in the buzz I get off different alcohol and this stuff is the best.

        I tend towards beer myself, though. I don’t like wine at all, or most liquors, but I do like tequila and sugarcane rum.

        1. A great tequila makes me misbehave badly… I don’t think it is really the fucking TEQUILA per se’… i do think there is a mexican thunderbolt IN really fucking good TEQUILA that makes me strip my fucking cloths off and then in a 3 oclock dark through empty rural streets where friends shout and cry for you to get in their suv… and then you find yourself in a massive orgy of human flesh..

          1. I usually don’t remember that happening and have to rely on second-hand information.

  20. The 20th century ended when the Berlin Wall fell. The 21st began on 09/11/01. What do we call the time in between?

    1. Middlebellum

  21. More Grundian Derp on Greece:


    Ramos 28m ago

    Shame on the center-left parties. They are traitors of socialism. They abandon SYRIZA, left them out to dry. Center-left parties of europe have conceded everything to rightwing.

    I support the radical left of my country, in my case, the Communist Party of Portugal. I expect nothing more from center left. I urge left wing people to do the same in their own countries. We have to comprehend where center-left lost to conservative: they have accepted the conservative economical worldview’s guidelines as the background of their political struggle. This means that any victory center-left may achieve happens within that worldview e just maintains its main guidelines running.

    Not accept the logic of the adversary, its world view, its causes, its conceptions as the background of the action is the first step to free left wing from being a simple alternation within right wing’s fundamentals. Look at Holland – he is the freshest example of left wing systematic defeat to the right even when it governs.

    1. Darn, those other people won’t join this guy in a suicide pact!

    2. Not accept the logic of the adversary

      Stuff like Supply and Demand. Got it.

  22. Seattle Times now has scientific data that not everyone shops at PCC, is concerned that people are making bad decisions.

    http://www.seattletimes.com/se…../#comments

    1. Could someone force-feed that twit several bushels of nuts and berries?

    2. Every thing about that article is retarded. Is that an 8th grade newspaper?

    3. Gene Balk is the spittoon of reality.

    4. Isn’t him using the word guy in his “FYI Guy” description as disingenuous as labeling a drink sweetened with GMO high fructose corn syrup as “organic?” Just sayin.

  23. I remember Kevin Smith talking about a shit expericne some years back… and he had smoked several fukin bowls and ate some fucking pizza and then decided to take a shit… nice large man on a bowl… very large nice man… and then the shit commmnced… eons of pushing and shoving this massive hunk of godamn snake … a fucking thoroubred cobra with a name and rank… that was a tiny poop worm

    well… as you fucking whore punkass drinkers and tokers know…

    your butt lies. Your fucking poophole fucking goddamn lies like a motherfucking asshole… it sez in my prison is a huge motherfuckin turd. in my prison is the fucking whore ass assasin turd. the worst of the galaxy of whore ass assisans NINJA tURDS…

    and then this fucking pellet drops onto the waters… a FUKING pellet a FUCKING whore ass tiny ass turd… I just fukin forced what I thought was a fucking tank through this fuking svelete tiger of a man and then I wiped and noticed and I recoiled like a mamba…I shat a pebble… a lonely turd pebble…

    1. Was it like wiping a marker?

      1. Man speaks from experince…

    2. your butt lies.

      What else am I going to believe?

    3. It’s called a ghost shit. You feel it coming out, there’s shit on the toilet paper, but the bowl is empty.

      1. Poltergeist coprophagia?

    4. eons of pushing and shoving this massive hunk of godamn snake … a fucking thoroubred cobra with a name and rank

      amazing

  24. So an Agnostic and a Unitarian walk to in a Syrian hookah joint…

    1. I really enjoy hookah with arabs, old boy.

      1. Sorry, the punchline is “The Lutheran is the bouncer.”

        1. Well these things do go awry from time to time, quincy. I’ve enjoyed some interesting travels on galactic belts if the hookah was oriented in a way that served us bros right. Does quincy roll on fields of quantum magic?

          1. Does quincy roll on fields of quantum magic?

            Ethanol, exclusively. It’s a vocation, really. I recycle aluminum.

            1. The good stuff is in bottles.

                1. IPA. IPA. IPA.

  25. I remember fucking with my old godamn church pastor when I was like fucking 8. I don’t know why. I didn’t like the disgusting fuck. I thought he was a horrible shitty human being who treated my parents like trash and I hated him for it… it was like fucking 1982 and this religious crapzit ran a goddam branham cult and he owned my fucking parents and I hated his horrid shit ass… I was too fuckin new as a human being to understand I could be controled…

    He was a treasure hunter. the fuckin jesus branham cultist was a treasure hunter… he sold all the newest fucking gear for detecting metal in the 80s, man. A fuckin metal detecting god this horrible abusing shit was…

    So he shows up at our property in inner city Toledo in the early 80’s and proceeds to detect the fuckin whole yard and cut circles with his knife and the fucking fat hog found nothing…. during lunch I made a couple of dimes dirty with soil and then showed my dad…

    I found dimes when that fucking shitty ass horrible fuck found nothing with his 80s tech… That cult pastor hated me from then on and made my life miserable… I hated pompous horrible human beings from an early age…

  26. All that about 1995 but no mention that that’s when Giuliani was 1st elected mayor? That had more consequences in the future than his time as US att’y.

    It was also a big yr. for financial scandals worldwide. I’m sure some of those are still echoing too.

    1. 1995 is the year my wife and I got married. If memory serves, it was also the last year we liked being in the same room for more than a few minutes.

      20 year anniversary coming up, though.

  27. The OJ chase is about the only 1990’s event I can distinctly remember. I have probably told this story before here, but it never gets old to me. Along with about a dozen other onlookers who were also listening to a new radio station in their car that day, I stopped and got out my car. Like the others, I just happened to be at a West LA 405 overpass at the time. Yes! I saw, with very my own eyes, the white Ford Bronco travelling southbound under me. I was also on the Mike Douglas show briefly, but that was in 60’s.

    1. It was the first time I ever played with boobies. Great day, as far as I’m concerned

      1. Chris Jenner will be able to play with boobies a lot!

        1. Not my primary concern, but OK.

      2. Yeah, it was the last time I played with boobies.

  28. OK, there’s another thing I remember the 1990’s, in reference W. Joseph Campbell’s take on Netscape and the Internet explosion. I wrote posts on Usenet under my own given name. A lot of others did so also, with some sense of bravado. The posts will still show up on a Google search of my unusual name. It’s not Ming Wu, like about a million or so Chinese.

  29. This was recommended to me:
    “Thieves of State: Why Corruption Threatens Global Security”
    http://www.amazon.com/Thieves-…..l+security
    Comments?

    1. It’s a bit hard to get a handle on the book from that link.

      I have been to two third world countries, Pakistan and Bangladesh. My knowledge is limited. On IMF missions. Upon my arrival, an engineer from Dhaka informed that the City’s temperature had risen 17 degrees Celsius in the last 50 years as the result of American imperialism. He wanted me to fix that. And he was nice, as I later came to find.

      1. widget|2.21.15 @ 12:51AM|#
        “It’s a bit hard to get a handle on the book from that link.”

        Danke.
        the reco comes from a suspect source, but I’ve read more than this book requires and then ignored it. Hell, I’ve read books by Krugmann!
        Other comments appreciated…

        1. Just one ‘n’. The German word “krug” mean King. The Kingman. Sorry, I have nothing better to do right now. Jews who lived in Germany took on German last names to assimilate and fly below the radar of German ethnocentrism. I have a German last name which is more popular among Jews than with the Roman Catholics in my family.

          Klein (small) is a popular German-Jewish name. But King? That takes some balls.

          1. German word for king is Koenig. Krug means jug.

      2. JackhandAce is an engineer in Dhaka? No shit.

  30. More Grunidan on Greece:

    Hypatia415 29m ago

    ‘The bailout money hasn’t benefited the Greek population, but in its largest part has gone straight from European bank accounts, through Athens, and back to the European Central Bank or the International Monetary Fund’ ‘Guardian’ today.

    The bailouts have led to the destruction of the Greek economy, mass unemployment and the myth of Greek profligacy. Many Greek businesses and privatised public utilities have been gobbled up by foreign companies, many of them German, at basement prices. Greek real estate has been bought up for a song, as the lower and middle-income Greeks are forced to sell their off their patrimony to pay the interest on the bailouts.

    1. If Herr Schauble, the ECU and the IMF are such great financial wizards why can they not help the Greek government to track down the real tax-avoiders on the ‘Lista Lagarde’ who have their illicit gains stashed away in Swiss bank accounts and offshore, money-laundering havens? If the US could print money to bail out the banks and rogue financial ‘wizards’ why can’t the ECB? It is only paper after all and totally worthless. Try some genuine ‘quantitative easing’. It won’t signal the end of your world.
      Finally, could Frau Merkel and her team stop moralising about debt defaults when Germany rebuilt and modernised after the havoc it wreaked on Europe in WWII with generous capital investment provided by the victors and denied to its victims such as Greece and the USSR?
      A little of what the Greeks call ‘filotimo’ is required and NO MORE AUSTERITY! It is a killer.

      1. This is the remainder of the comment, not my comment, sorry.


  31. angryinsocal 1h ago

    If Greece withdrew from the Euro it would be the best thing for its own economy and in the long run the best thing for Europe and the world. The Euro single currency has been an unmitigated disaster. Since its advent it has decimated the economies of Greece, Portugal, Italy, and Spain and even Germany and france have under-performed from their post war averages. Especially, when crazed austerity clowns pushing discredited 1930s economic models come to power at the ECB and in Germany. Monetary stimulus is the one method Greece can use to pay off its debts and stimulate growth. Unfortunately, it has ceded its most important tool to a bunch of tight fisted Euro technocrats who still believe in austerity. China and America used liberal fiscal and monetary policy to stimulate growth and job creation, their economies bounced back after the great Recession. The Eurozone decided to slash public sector spending while private sector spending was also collapsing. Their imposition of 1930s economics has resulted in 1930s style economy. The Euro single currency is an epic disaster and its continuation will insure that Europe will continue to the weak sister of the developed world economically.


  32. JulianTurnbull North2011 1h ago

    Very well-said! But I have a feeling that they are buying time for an exit. And I hope they do. Clearly, austerity cannot work. Common sense, Keynes and history tell us so. But try telling that to this dreadful bunch of amateur Bullingdon-Boy chancers running this country. What has happened in Greece – the collapse of society – is happening here too, but it is slower, because we are larger. And when we wake up, it looks like the Darwinian chancers will be back again, because they have more money than Labour to win the election. God help us if they do. They really do not believe in a “society”. They will sell everything to their donors and themselves: hospitals, schools, roads, village greens. The list is endless. They wrap themselves in the Union Jack doing it.

  33. babiss 4m ago

    Several months ago the European Central Bank along with the IMF announced a 3 billion euros input to the european economy,whay happened to that.Greeces last government imposed austerity on the Greek people that hit the pensioners and the disabled.austerity does not work.after christine lagard got her brain into gear she even said it wasn,t working.cammoron in the uk can,t get austerity right,any child can have a surplus of money by atacking the most vulnerable and slashing services as well as sacking thousands of people.Herr squabble is a right wing fascist arsehole that has no concerns for the whole of europe what so ever.if Greece tells the euro zone to stick it they can,t be any worse off than they are now.they,ll run out out of money people say,not if they don,t pay the loan.the out come of all this is never trust or be in a club with some nazi

  34. Well, I see Winston’s up still playing. I’m hacking my lungs out from a fucking COLD I picked up after I got over the goddamned FLU a couple weeks ago. Fucking winter and other people and their goddamned motherfucking germs.

    One bottle of water down. I think I’d better have another…hydration…it’s what’s for three in the morning.

    Happy weekend, all you Reasonoids.

    1. Sorry to hear that. There’s still the stomach flu going around, so you’ve got that to look forward to.

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