Freddie deBoer: Charlie Kirk's Murder Reveals a Cultural Sickness
Writer Freddie deBoer discusses the assassination of Charlie Kirk and his theory of "spectacular acts of public violence" on the final episode of Just Asking Questions.
Why must all good things come to an end? Just asking questions.
This will be the final episode of the Just Asking Questions podcast. This discussion with Freddie deBoer about the assassination of Charlie Kirk and its aftermath felt like the kind of sincere, analytical, deeply meaningful conversation across an ideological divide that would be appropriate to call our last. Liz Wolfe and Zach Weissmueller offer their final thoughts and reflections on the series at the end of the episode, so if you've been with us on this journey, please stay after the final question to hear our closing statements. You can continue to read Liz's work every weekday by subscribing to the Reason Roundup. Zach will continue to produce documentaries, video essays, and interviews for Reason TV. You can also follow Liz and Zach on X for updates on their work, and the full Just Asking Questions archive will remain available here, on YouTube, and podcatchers.
Freddie deBoer joins us in today's episode to unpack the horrific assassination of Charlie Kirk. On his Substack, he wrote a remarkable piece attempting to make sense of what he calls "spectacular acts of public violence."
The motive of Kirk's alleged killer has become clearer as text messages and family statements released by law enforcement reveal a young man in a relationship with a transgender partner, enraged by Kirk's supposed "hatred." But from deBoer's perspective, it's not ideology primarily spurring these public acts of political violence. A profound lack of meaning and wallowing in nihilistic online irony continually leads young men—often egged on by internet friends they barely know in real life—to desperately graft a semi-coherent grievance onto their final violent act in a doomed attempt to make it meaningful.
DeBoer is a proud man of the left, and we ask him whether the pathology that led to Kirk's assassination is particularly characteristic of the left in an era where unapologetic celebrations of this murder and the murder of United Healthcare executive Brian Thompson late last year have appeared on social media with disturbing frequency.
It's a conversation that we hope inspires you as it did us to reflect on what it is that's meaningful to you, what the effect of an increasingly digital and disembodied world has on that meaning, and how to avoid pushing our culture any further in the direction of one that produces rampant celebration and dehumanization of a father and husband who was killed for the words he spoke.
Sources referenced in this conversation:
-
- Utah County Attorney: Charges against Tyler Robinson
- Ken Klippenstein: Leaked Messages from Charlie Kirk Assassin
- How acceptable are the following activities in response to a campus speaker? 2024 College Free Speech Rankings | The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression
- Institute for Economics and Peace: People who feel political violence is justified
- Producer: John Osterhoudt
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People believing words are violence, people believing they are entitled to physically harms those with whom they disagree, and people not taking responsibility for their actions as well as political gaslighting and promotion of violence puts the nation in a challenging spot.
It's a supermarket of ideologies, grievances, and motives out there, particularly for those with no moral grounding or sense of purpose or direction. On the internet anything can be normalized and provide a virtual peer group to support it.
This shit is out of the bottle and on the ship that has sailed.
Add to that liberal DAs removing the right to defend oneself and the problem grows even more.
The NAP only applied to team blue members who get triggered by words and follow the narrative that it is the same as violence and therefore their violence is justified.
Stochastic terrorism is much worse than terrorism terrorism.
I agree! Look how bad it's gotten!
Yeah, the difference is those guys were mocked by just about everybody, even people on the right.
Nice try, dude.
I have only one political rule: it is worth risking my life to protect life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I have given my oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies. Having said that, it's a matter of opinion who the enemies of the Constitution are. I am only willing to risk my life to defend the Constitution against those who I believe are actually those enemies, and only if I see a reasonable chance of success. I do not believe that assassination will ever achieve that goal. I firmly believe in the right to self defense but I cannot imagine ever killing a stranger no matter how evil their speech might seem to me.
I believe that there have been generations of socialists who have gradually eroded the Constitution I have sworn to protect and defend and I consider them to be those enemies. There have also been generations of fascists who have tried to use religion and fear to gain power and that those actions were the original motivation for the Founders and the Framers to write the Constitution the way they did and it is why I swore an oath to defend their work.
Having said that, it's a matter of opinion who the enemies of the Constitution are.
Nope. That's relativist claptrap. It rides on the false premise that The Constitution stands for what you think it should stand for, rather than what it says.
It's an excuse to define "your enemies" as whoever you want them to be. Which, you'll notice, has been the left's response to Kirk's murder. In media, in politics, in academia, in social reaction - all of it.
This is pretty cut and dry, MWA.
Charlie: wronged.
Shooter: wrongdoer.
Any attempt to obfuscate or deny that puts you on the side of the shooter. Simple as that.
Not that simple, really. I agree that Kirk was wronged and that the shooter is a murderer who wronged him. And while you didn't mention this, I assume you'd agree that despite Kirk's speech, which many found deeply offensive, and despite his delivery, which was often confrontational and shocking, he was fully covered by the First Amendment and no one deserves to be murdered for their speech.
Where we deeply disagree is that "obfuscat[ion]" or "den[ial]" puts someone on the "side of the shooter." You offer a clear picture of victim and murderer and then use subjective terms to lump what would likely be a broad group of people into "on the side of the shooter." You can believe that Kirk was a bad person while simultaneously believing he also was wrongfully killed. You can disagree with Kirk's brand of Christian Nationalism while simultaneously empathizing with his surviving family. Framing anyone that "obfuscates" by recognizing the polarizing effect of Kirk and his organization as "on the side of the shooter" is just a continuation of the polarization itself and overly simplistic.
Can you give us specific examples of what was considered offensive? And who it was offensive to?
Men don't have vaginas. Reality offends the left
The left are offended by everything Kirk said, even though what he said was true, nevertheless, the left is offended.
Reality and common sense are totally missing within the left.
Where we deeply disagree is that "obfuscat[ion]" or "den[ial]" puts someone on the "side of the shooter."
Yes, and on that point you are wrong and I am right.
You can believe that Kirk was a bad person while simultaneously believing he also was wrongfully killed. You can disagree with Kirk's brand of Christian Nationalism while simultaneously empathizing with his surviving family.
Neither of these are obfuscations or denials. An obfuscation or a denial is the intentional effort to pretend that Charlie was anything but the wronged party, and that the political network that intentionally assassinated him and cheered his death isn't a wrongdoer.
Believe what you want about him. Disagree with him all you want. It's neither here nor there. The wronged party and the wrongdoing party is not a subjective question - it's 100% objective.
ANY siding - EVEN SLIGHTLY - with the wrongdoer over the wronged is you siding with the shooter.
I find you offensive and unnecessarily confrontational
Your kind are deeply offended by any deviation from democrat dogma.
Any attempt to idolize Charlie Kirk puts you on the side of the fascists. Simple as that.
Do you even know what a fascist is?
By all means, tell me. But use your own words please, not those of BlueSky or ChatGPT.
Words such as Nazi, Fascist and racist have lost their meaning from overuse and now, nothing more then a stupid pejorative the leftists believe will silence their opposition.
Fortunately it doesn't work.
It's why Charlie Kirk was murdered.
Attempt to idolize? How about attempting to not be a gigantic, retarded, terrorist douchebag? I guess you're trying to be "edgey". Instead, you just come off terroristy and shitty.
I'm enjoying the powerless right wing stomping and crying so much. Voters will remember the immature tantrum, out of touch with topics that matter, like economics, job security.
His wife moved on from him faster than you did, right wingers of america. The relief is deep. Very, very deep. 😀
We’re pretty much in control. So I don’t know what the fuck your dumb ass is talking about.
“Voters will remember…..”
Lol. Voters will remember that 90% of the media was pretending that sleepy joe was just fine as late as June of 2024. That one is not going away for a while. Haha.
Just like you’re pretending to be winning anything, fiddy. It’s just pretending all the way around.
Haha. Loser.
Right wing dead end of evolution: whenever you're deployed, your wife has the time of her life.
But when you're in a box, her box blooms with happiness and joyous revival. Mmmmmmhhhh.... Right winger, it really doesnt matter if youre affiliated with turning point or the marines.... BECAUSE IT IS JUST SOOOO GOOD TO MOVE ON FROM YOU, SOOOOO SWEEEET, mmmmmhhhh
The only dead ends are you and your fellow incel shitlibs.
Hahahahahahahahaha
Why don’t you fags shoot a few more people? We know you wam to, and it will give us the excuse we need to start rounding you all up and end your party for good.
Fascists usually idolize those who do the shooting. Like idolizing Lugi.
Bull fucking shit. The constitution is open to interpretation like every mother fucking thing, unfortunately. Kirk said Kill Biden. Is that against the Constitution, Mr Constitutional scholar?
I’ll take misconstrued and out of context for $500, Alex.
Language.
No, it's not open to interpretation. At least, not by anyone other than the Supreme Court.
Nor is "every thing" either. A=A, A ≠ ~A.
If I hold up an egg and ask you what it is, the only correct answer is "an egg." That's not open to interpretation. It's an egg, and it's nothing BUT an egg.
The same goes the Constitution and all its tenets. Heck, the same also goes for morality. If one person says "the intentional murder with wanton malice of another human being is wrong," and another says, "the intentional murder with wanton malice of another human being is not wrong," - one of them is objectively incorrect.
FW I'm going to put this is as plainly as I can: relativism is nonsense. I know its been spoonfed to you by evil people for a very long time, but it's time for you to put on your big boy pants and start thinking on your own. Relativism is 100% bogus.
Kirk said Kill Biden.
No he didn't. I know what you're thinking of, and that's not what he said. But I get it - the lies are the ONLY way you can make your bogus narrative work.
You mad, bro?
Everything Is So Terrible And Unfair, nonsensewriter.
Haha.
How about using the FCC to silence critics? HOw about using the power of the government against my enemies? How about taking licenses from broadcasters because they criticize him?
I defy you to point to even a single illustration of where Charlie Kirk did any one of those things.
Waaaaahhh!
Haha.
You do realize that fascism is merely a variation on socialism.
Fascism is socialism in a capitalism costume.
The Italians DID have way snappier uniforms compared to the Russians.
Would that be the cultural sickness some of in the comments were increasingly talking about as far back as that Wednesday in 2015? That cultural sickness that we not only warned about but have been discussing its face-smashingly obvious ongoing existence for ten years... while everyone else shouted "hur durr kultur warr"?
Cmon man. Those problems pointed out 20 years on university campuses would never extend to the rest of society.
This is the second time you've mentioned "that Wednesday in 2015". What are you talking about? Which Wednesday? What happened?
Isn’t that when Trump came down the escalator?
That was a Tuesday.
Erika Kirk is taking over TPUSA, per Charlie's wishes and approved by the board.
I do wonder if she'll take the same approach to it as he did, and whether the left will respond as they have to date by now creating orphans instead of just a widow.
Just Asking Questions.
The motive of Kirk's alleged killer has become clearer
Shh, don't tell the media. They want to still pretend it's unknown.
A profound lack of meaning and wallowing in nihilistic online irony continually leads young men—often egged on by internet friends they barely know in real life—to desperately graft a semi-coherent grievance onto their final violent act in a doomed attempt to make it meaningful.
Meaning, they're radicalized. Or groomed, I suppose. By the left.
DeBoer is a proud man of the left
Mm, not sure that's something you want to advertise anymore.
It isnt just a men problem. See the female trannie shooters.
Female according to them, or female according to reality?
Depends on what their tranifestos indicate.
Reality.
Are we pretending that a MAGA faithful didn't beat Mr Pelosi with a hammer and then right-wing pundits and the President's own son made jokes about it?
Are we pretending that a crazy MAGA shooter didn't assassinate a Minnesota Democrat and her husband?
The molotov cocktail thrown at the Pennsylvania Governor (D) Shapiro's home with his wife and kids inside?
Or the political violence on January 6th that resulted in several brutalized police officers by MAGA supporters and the death of a woman as she tried to break into the chamber where politicians were being secured? The chants of "Hang Mike Pence" by MAGA supporters? Or Trump pardoning those that committed that violence?
Maybe take a look at yourselves in the mirror, eh?
U.S.A. Today said Balmer wasn't a Trump supporter. He "harbored hatred" for Shapiro because Shapiro, who is Jewish, didn't support Palestine, who Balmer claimed were "his friends."
Ahh. I see your problem. Youre a retarded leftist shit who prefers false narratives to reality.
Maybe take a look at yourselves in the mirror, eh?
But not your funhouse mirror.
The molotov cocktail thrown at the Pennsylvania Governor (D) Shapiro's home with his wife and kids inside?
It's pretty amusing people using universally known false assertions to "make" their point is insulting other people about "pretending".
"Are we pretending that a MAGA faithful didn't beat Mr Pelosi with a hammer and then right-wing pundits and the President's own son made jokes about it?"
Very much so. Was not a MAGA guy at all.
Doesn't seem to be political either. The official narrative is suspect. More likely Pelosi knew the guy and something went wrong.
Who sold you that bridge?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/paul-pelosi-attacker-david-depape-convicted-state-charges-brutal-hammer-assault
DePape said he planned to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage, interrogate her and "break her kneecaps" if she did not admit to the lies he alleged that she told about "Russiagate," referencing the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential campaign.
Umm...I think that guy was a MAGA guy...He just attacked Pelosi's husband because she wasn't there.
"The molotov cocktail thrown at the Pennsylvania Governor (D) Shapiro's home with his wife and kids inside?"
Pro-Palestine protester. 99% certain not right-wing.
"Are we pretending that a crazy MAGA shooter didn't assassinate a Minnesota Democrat and her husband?"
Yup. Also not MAGA.
"Or the political violence on January 6th that resulted in several brutalized police officers by MAGA supporters and the death of a woman as she tried to break into the chamber where politicians were being secured? The chants of "Hang Mike Pence" by MAGA supporters? Or Trump pardoning those that committed that violence?"
Yawn. 1/6 was a protest that went south. It was mostly peaceful.
Maybe don't get all your information from Jimmy Kimmel.
Oh, but that won't be a problem anymore will it.
Jeez, you're a creepy mofo. Muting you now. Buh-bye, loser.
Hahahahahahahaha
Good move. I keep this one flagged but visible as a hand-tipper for orders given to Gestapo by Christian National Socialism. Mencken and Friedrich both kept an eye on sockpuppets too comical to be real. Kids these days are slow to recognize payroll narcs.
Goddamn, you’re pathetic Hank.
Seethe harder you pinko bitch.
Jimmy is looking for a new gig. Maybe he can emcee trans/drag queen contests.
If you’re gonna come and troll with the same talking points that have been refuted at least a dozen times, could you just start off with the unhinged rant?
You’re a silly bitch Shawn Dude.
Lol. There’s a lot of “pretending” in your post, dude, that’s for sure.
Idiot.
Tell us all knwoing wise one what was his motive? All HE said that we know of was he was tired of the hate
His motive was to intentionally kill a civil rights leader because he didn't like the man's speech, which he misperceived to be "fascist" and "hateful" as a result of having been thoroughly indoctrinated and radicalized (not to mentioned sexually groomed) by a highly organized political network that ultimately wants to see its enemies slaughtered.
Killing Kirk was a preemptive political assassination of a likely GOP Presidential candidate in 2040.
Altruist Totalitarians know all about other people's motives...
I - just like everyone else not intentionally sticking their head in the sand - know about this one.
Note to foreign readers: "the" left and "the" right are terminological gimmicks. They sidestep confessing that the writer wants you to believe there are ONLY two ways to vote (a lie). They also hide the fact that the writer seeks to define a position halfway between Stalinist communism and Hitlerite Christian national socialism as normal in a universe of discourse that excludes any and all options outside of kleptocratic looter states.
I've got a newsflash for you goofball. Charlie Kirk and his supporters, including all the recently new ones are the half-way position. The moderates and the conservatives, they're the ones most in agreement with each other (and, get this, willing to get along with each other despite disagreement!) and working towards a common purpose.
The two poles are the alt-right - which I know you'd LOVE to believe is all MAGA and Trump voters, but flat out isn't - and the left.
ALL of the left. Because all of you have completely jumped the shark.
https://i.redd.it/5rzmulrynhw81.png
And that only takes us through 2021. In 2025, the two on the right are high-fiving each other.
Both sides have people who are mentally unbalanced. But only one side's mainstream movement intentionally radicalizes their acolytes in ways that can be expected to result in violence.
By Any Means Necessary has been an organizing call to arms for pushing 5 decades now. Calling specific people Hitler and the right generally fascist is a dogwhistle granting permission for violence.
I don't believe the majority of leftists want violence, although this is only because they realize it will not help them. But they know these and other radicalization techniques successfully drive long term voting and activist activity so they will not oppose the leftists who do support violence pushing their expendable members into it.
House democrats were again screaming fascists and nazis today.
You can read that two ways...
Taking licenses from broadcasters because they criticize him and using the FCC to silence them is fascist nazi AF
Whose license was taken?
When was a license pulled?
It's in Atlas Shrugged! "But if you don't get me an engine and don't start that train, you can kiss good-bye to your jobs, your work permits and this whole goddamn railroad!" And "I do not expect to be insulted by disloyal young punks with treasonable motives," said Dr. Stadler loudly. Dr. Ferris whirled upon the young man and snapped, his face out of control, distorted by rage at the unexpected and unplanned, "Give me your press card and your work permit!" See? As American as Nixon, Harry Anslinger and George Wallace!
Open your eyes
political violence” that has happened since 2017 has been primarily MAGA. Setting shapiro’s house on fire. Killing Melissa & Mark Hortman, the attempted murder of John & Yvette Hoffman on the same day by the same man. Attempted kidnapping of Gretchen whitmer, the 2018 pipe bombs, Solomon Peña’s murder for hire scheme in NM, the murder of Daniel Anderl, the murder of Heather Hayer. A noose for Mike Pence. The vicious beating of Paul Pelosi.
These are all things that have happened since Trump’s first term, and these are all things that MAGA America has relentlessly downplayed, mocked & cheered for.
Now make your list since 2017
Setting shapiro’s house on fire.
It's amusing these fools don't even know their own evidence well enough to recognize they are proving themselves wrong. This is the drawback of living in a cloister where reality simply doesn't matter. Left wingers claim to believe nonsense because believing the truth doesn't prove loyalty, you might just be honest. But telling lies proves your loyalty which is why cults use this tactic.
The result is claiming to believe obvious nonsense like the UVA Rape Hoax and The 1619 Project.
Yeah, this guy is clueless.
All leftist attacks. As usual.
DeBoer is a
proud man of the leftcertified mental case.He's a "prohibited person" under the 1968 GCA
Kirk himself was a sickness.
What about him was sick?
He was married, conservative and Christian, duh!
/s just in case that wasn’t clear
I know Nate, thanks. lol.
That’s anathema to a debauched faggot like Tony. And to be clear, some men are gay, but Tony is a faggot.
Yes, a person who debates respectfully and honestly would be considered sick by people like you.
Tony is certainly a liar, and an idiot.
Destiny? Is that you?
Goodbye Liz and Zach, yours was one of the better podcasts. I’ll miss it.
Maybe it will be replaced by Boehm and Sullum. Or Autumn and Emma. Those pairing s will produce insightful discussion.
Of course, as we are told by Joe Biden and echoed by the MSM that radical right wing extremism is a threat to America.
That's right. All those radical right wing extremists who work for a living, support their families, attend church, pay taxes that pay for trans surgeries, failing public schools, endless welfare for illegal aliens and baby mommas and needless wars in the middle east and for the most part just want to be left alone.
Yup those people are a threat to democracy.
If there was any better way to drive people away from the Democrat party, then this is it.
By now, we know who the real enemies of America are: radical leftist college professors, radical racial organizations, ANTIFA, radical trans/queen groups, which include a long list of other radical groups that have armed up and of course the NGO providing the dark money to front these groups. Money provided by George Soros, another enemy of America.
Actually, people working for a living and supporting dependents shoulder little of the tax burden, except for the very affluent. Most taxes are paid by the rich. As a percentage of income, low-income workers without dependents pay more in taxes than middle-class people with dependents. The middle class is under-taxed in this country relative to the level of government services they demand.
Actually the middle class pays the burden of taxes. Property taxes, sales taxes, along with income taxes, taxes on gasoline so they can drive to work and help support the local baby mommas.
This doesn't age well.
""Hillary Clinton rejected calls for a return to civility in American politics during an interview on Tuesday, arguing instead that civility can only return once Democrats take back control of Congress.""
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/hillary-clinton-civility-can-start-again-when-democrats-take-congress/
Just like they were during the Obiden administration.
Take the vaxx or get fired. Shut up! Stay in your home! No school for you! Small businesses can die!
Hillary is a bitter senile old woman. Ever since she lost her entitlement to Trump, she has been off the rails.
News: "House lawmakers get $10K per month for personal security following Kirk assassination"
If that doesn't tell you Cartman Kirk was a government agent, you'll believe twice two is five. It's like Her Majesty's service told Harry Palmer when he whined about having been tortured: "That's what you're paid for." And now, back to Just Interrogating Suspects, your go-to forum for Altruist Totalitarian nyooz and MAGAtry. Next up: George Lincoln Rockwell was wronged!
Fuck off Hank.
The cultural sickness is on the left. Trans people, uncontrolled immigration, phony climate change, and the worst of it was during the covid hoax. The Branch Covidians went insane. Thens there's the attempt at forcing Americans to accept the irrational idea that men can become women and vice versa. It was literally forced down people's throats. It was everywhere. Pride month, rainbow crosswalks, pride flags at schools, and anyone who dared speak out was labeled a NAZI!
The cultural sickness is on the left. Radical leftists did their worst but are they finished yet? I doubt it.
At least the Trump administration has taken notice as it is obvious just how dangerous the radical left has become as many of them have become armed and calling for insurrection.
Now they’re trying to normalize assassinations, and furries.
So, was Cartman Kirk another MAGA on MAGA murder like Kimmel hints?