Should Libertarians Prioritize Their Own Communities?

Eric Brakey and Andrew Heaton debate whether libertarians should prioritize building local liberty-focused societies like the Free State Project or focus on reforming the federal government.

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Should Libertarians Prioritize Their Own Communities?

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Eric Brakey and Andrew Heaton debate the resolution, "Libertarians should focus on building liberty-for-real societies like the Free State Project, rather than reforming an ever-expanding, uncontrollable federal government."

Eric Brakey, executive director of the Free State Project and former Maine state senator, argued in favor of the resolution. Andrew Heaton, comedian, author, and host of The Political Orphanage podcast, argued against it.

The debate was moderated by Soho Forum Director Gene Epstein.

Because of major technical problems during the recording of this event, the audio quality is well below Reason's standards.

• Editor: John Osterhoudt

Comments

[VULGAR MADMAN]

The LP are just one lefty loon away from capturing the presidency!

[Don't get eliminated(How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer penguin meat)]

If Chase wasn’t gay, who knows what happens in 2024.

[MasterThief]

Maybe the LP could have finished higher than fucking 5th place behind Kamala, Jill Stein, and a guy who had joined the eventual winner months earlier.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Wait what ????!!!!! Chase is gay? Wow. Who knew?

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

You can tell by the number of votes he got.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Did the penguin tell you to do this?)]

Yep, definitely at the bottom.

[Speaking for normal people]

Chase is perverted and happens to be gay. Don't excuse the sick man
DISGUSTING
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ-diyGhGytAmUBMWxCn5fb80E8EVkuzCmkxg&s

A little boy wiht no mother raised by two homosesxuals.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

They should be against the forced funding of communities they choose not to fund. And despite Reason not understanding this, it includes foreigners.

[Eeyore]

He wears a bow tie.

[Longtobefree]

" . . . reforming the federal government."

When you tilt at windmills, the windmill always wins.

-- D. Quixote

[MasterThief]

Damnit. You pretty much summed up what took me much more to say.

[MasterThief]

Libertarians should make their arguments on the biggest stages, but it is dumb to believe that focusing on global libertarianism advocacy is going to compete with the organizing power of collectivists. Most other nations aren't interested and will use your principles to fuck us over. Libertarians are a handful of scattered lone wolves and the collectivist sheep are many and will trample the few regardless of how potent their arguments are.
Libertarians should be focused on building at the lower levels and making some small part of the world better while providing a shining example that hopefully spreads. It's my belief that "libertarians" who are most concerned about open borders and globalism are either collectivists or will shortly become them. Most of the world is not in line with our beliefs and it's suicide to behave as if it is. I have a difficult enough time pushing back on the socialists in my community. We have too many invading from DC. Throwing in a bunch of South and Central Americans further dilutes any influence I had on retaining a self-sufficient rural town ethos that once was a close knit community. I'm never going to convince CA or NY to get the government out of our business so we can take care of shit on our own. I can do that and have some success in my neighborhood and local community.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

It's my belief that "libertarians" who are most concerned about open borders and globalism are either collectivists or will shortly become them.

They are naive.

Marxists are very good at cooking their beliefs into the language of others. This is how they have taken over many large corporations. They sound agreeable, but they are malevolent.

It is why Hoppes, Rothbard, Mises and others tempered their open borders arguments as they matured in their careers. They saw the damage and the cooptong of libertarian arguments all while importing votes against their ideology. They realized they couldn't convert people who disagreed with them after importing millions more who disagreed with them.

You could set up a pure libertarian enclave, but if you import numbers greater than the initial population who agreed with those views, the enclave will be lost.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)]

You're an idiot.

Globalism simply means 'cooperation'. We have a free trade agreement and we won't bomb each other.

That is "globalism" to you hicks.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Did the penguin tell you to do this?)]

Way to miss the entire point, retard.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)]

You two homos never have a point.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Did the penguin tell you to do this?)]

Project much, pedophile faggot?

[DesigNate]

You’re a goddamn idiot.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)]

You're the fucking idiot.

What could be more libertarian than - FREE TRADE and the NAP?

That is what I support you dumb cracka.

[Don't get eliminated(How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer penguin meat)]

Nobody buys your bullshit

[DesigNate]

The fuck you do. Demshill.

[Speaking for normal people]

Wow, globalism means some business with tentacles all over the place can shift money , avoid taxes, promote porn or abortion or anything , from someplace where it's legal. I see Krupp and IG Farben and even IBM

Newly discovered documents from Hitler's Germany prove that the computer company IBM directly supplied the Nazis with technology which was used to help transport millions of people to their deaths in the concentration camps at Auschwitz and Treblinka,
See the book IBM AND THE HOLOCAUST

[Rick James]

P.J. O'Rourke, in an interview before he died, right here on Reason (the interview, not the death) made the best assessment of libertarianism as a political force I've ever heard:

"Libertarianism will never be a major political force because libertarianism isn't a political movement, it's actually an anti-political movement".

That is accurate, truthful and realistic. And it has nothing to do with throwing shade on libertarians... it's just a simple fact of the temperament of the movement. Now, Beltway libertarianism... Libertarianism Adapted for Modern Audiences? That's a different story.

[Speaking for normal people]

Wrong as can be....The main effect of placing Freedom of Religion at the very top, regardless of what you believe personally is that without that the State becomes God. How many Stalins and Maos do you need to see to grasp this
Libertarians in my view are making the world worse by pretending to the liberty advocacy but not opposing 'Government as GOD"

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)]

Libertarians and classic liberals need to stand together. No MAGA and no progressives.

Except AOC. Hot chicks allowed no matter their political affiliation.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Hey buddy. Why are the economic predictions of you, boehm, and sarc always so wrong?

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/china-quietly-walks-back-quarter-us-import-tariffs-amid-economic-crunch

[InsaneTrollLogic (Did the penguin tell you to do this?)]

You are neither, Turd. You are a fucking neocon who wears libertarian clothing as drag.

[DesigNate]

He doesn’t even do that. He’s just a bog standard dnc shill st this point.

[Speaking for normal people]

That you think she's hot means YOU ARE NOT

[Use the Schwartz]

Think Global Act Loco.

[Rick James]

How will this "community" exist outside the influence of the larger state and/or federal government? And will this community have like... an um, arbitrary set of invisible lines which will define that community? And will this community tolerate people who are unlibertarian or even... anti-libertarian? Will sex work be work and pimps have to register with the community? Will license plate scanners and mass surveillance be ok if it's done right and charges people a fare for driving on the uh, community roadz?

[Speaking for normal people]

Rich wants a CHURCH with no religion, Good luck, Rick

"Let's all join hands and affirm NOTHING"

[creech]

Libertarians have had hundreds of candidates elected to local offices over the years. How many lasted more than one term? How many went on to win higher offices? How many had any long term effective libertarian policies implemented? Maybe Reason can track down the handful who have and let us know how they did it? I can think of only one long term Libertarian office holder; a woman in an L.A. suburb who has been elected and re-elected for at least 20 years. Maybe she can share her secrets and successes with Reason and the rest of us?

[JFree]

How much of a Libertarian platform or effort is devoted to the issues that matter at the local level? That gathers support for local efforts in that direction? If a party offers nothing to a candidate, there is good reason why candidates who are serious about effecting change at a level where they can do that will avoid LP like the plague

'Libertarianism' is a dead ism. Let it pine for the fjords. Long live something elsism.

[Speaking for normal people]

Maybe you are as you act, greater than the American Founders.
Still they weren't wrong like your ignoring them suggests.

If you want anyplace to be better
stop opposing religous liberty.
Stop posting so damn many negative depressing 'The sky is falling " stories on Reason
Stop trying to kill diversity in Economics thinking. Do you ever mention Gary Becker on the family....Julian Simon on more people as our most precious resource....all the research showing our aid has ruined Africa....the Dutch economist touted by Aayan Hirsi Ali on the economic ruin caused by unmonitored immigration, etc.

[Speaking for normal people]

In the History of Ideas this is a St Paul statement later strenghtened by the founder of Methodism, but you being ignorant of that twist to mean pretty much the opposite !!!

Galatians 6:10
Therefore, whenever we have the opportunity, we should do good to everyone—especially to those in the family of faith.

John Wesley
in the teachings of John Wesley, both "family of faith" and "household of faith" are used interchangeably to describe the community of believers.

Now,by unwittingly putting Liberatarianism in the religious spot you are telling anybody who believes in God that as a Libertarian you have 2 masters to serve.
This is probably the main reason I turned on Libertarianism

And now I see the face of god, and I raise this god over the earth, this god whom men have sought since men came into being, this god who will grant them joy and peace and pride. This god, this one word: 'I. Ayn Rand A PERFECT FOOL

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

'Should Libertarians Prioritize Their Own Communities?'

With, like, borders and shit?

[Speaking for normal people]

And I should add, readers, Libertarians are among the chief enemies in the world of Freedom of Religion and thus they further Marxism and Chinese torture and detention of Falun Gong and Uyghurs. The more honest ones show detestation of America's Founders for placing that first.

"Nothing is more dreaded than the national government meddling with religion." —John Adams, in a letter to Benjamin Rush. 1812

"[T]hat the opinions of men are not the object of civil government, nor under its jurisdiction; that to suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of their ill tendency is a dangerous fallacy, which at once destroys all religious liberty." —Thomas Jefferson, 1779.

"The Religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man: and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate." —James Madison, 1785.

"Driven from every other corner of the earth, freedom of thought and the right of private judgment in matters of conscience direct their course to this happy country as their last asylum." —Samuel Adams, Speech on August 1, 1776.

"While we are contending for our own liberty, we should be very cautious not to violate the conscience of others, ever considering that God alone is the judge of the hearts of men, and to Him only in this case are they answerable." —George Washington, in a letter to Benedict Arnold.

"Conscience is the most sacred of all property." —James Madison, 1792.

[Anastasia Beaverhausen]

"Because of major technical problems during the recording of this event, the audio quality is well below Reason's standards."

THEN PRINT A TRANSCRIPT! How many times do you need to be prodded to provide transcripts for your "podcasts"?

[Jahfre Fire Eater]

I was enthused by the idea of Libertarianism back in the 1980's but after a couple decades of witnessing the futility of ego-driven Libertarian populism I realized self-labeled Libertarians would NEVER become effective at promoting the Human Action based value of libertarian practice. The false dilemma in the title of this article sums up my disgust with Libertarians perfectly. Go out and be libertarians where you are. Do it well, do it humbly rather than as vicious gang of egotistical, cynical, evangelical a$$holes and maybe in some distant future those ideas will become broadly recognized for that value DESPITE the several decades of a&&...behavior enmasse that have marked the beginnings of the libertarian future.

[Speaking for normal people]

The closest thing I've found to Libertarians, modern LIbertarianism, is Scientology

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAePQkiG-Ko

[NCMB]

“The government closest to the people serves the people best.” - Thomas Jefferson

And, I’d ad, it’s easiest for an individual to have actual impact on local government policy compared to the ridiculously bloated and bureaucratic federal government. If you’ve never attended your local government meetings (i.e. town/city council, county commission, etc.) do it.

[The Mysterious Edwin Dunkel]

Eric Brakey and Andrew Heaton debate whether libertarians should prioritize building local liberty-focused societies like the Free State Project or focus on reforming the federal government.

I think libertarians should cut to the chase and initiate a Free Continent Project. Libertarians could commit to moving to and colonizing Antartica, where they'll annoy no one but the penguins.

[IceTrey]

Libertarians should focus all their energy on prohibiting government coercion.

[Speaking for normal people]

No, you kill all your enemies and you still have established zero.
How about the chief liberty, liberty of conscience.

[Speaking for normal people]

Translation: Libertarians should engergetically coerce all the government coercers. And notice the 'should' --- pseudo-morality

Nothing affirmed, just more of 'attack the bastards I call bastards"

[Speaking for normal people]

Wow, coercing lack of coercion. How many times has that failed.
THis affirms nothing. More example of the Reason motto: Let's kill all our enemies and then the world will automatically become LIberrtarian.

[GraniteLiberty303]

Love Andrew Heaton, but him pointing to the Cole Memo as a victory for libertarians on the federal level is such a weak point it undermines his entire argument. Marijuana is legal in 24 states because the states acted with out the federal government's permission and moved to legalize it first. The federal government then caved deciding it wasn't politically or fiscally worth it to try and shutdown marijuana dispensaries. It wasn't the handful of libertarians in Washington D.C. that made this happen.

[Azathoth!!]

The Free State Project is dead and worse than dead.

It is failure writ large.

New Hampshire, once a bastion of liberty, moves swiftly towards an insanity likeunto that espoused by the vermin who pollute Vermont with progressivism.

It is a sad thing, the inevitable product of those who refuse to take a stand for what they believe in, for those who choose a 'third way' while ignoring the fact that every such movement has lapsed into leftism of one sort or another.

[Speaking for normal people]

I wantr both of you to tell me why THIS doesn't infuriate you

BLM proposes opening 31M acres of public land to solar development
The updated Western Solar Plan proposal expands potential development by 9 million acres beyond the agency’s original proposal
AND
China dominates the global solar panel supply chain, controlling an estimated 80% or more of the market share at all stages of production. This includes raw materials like polysilicon, refining, slicing into wafers, and the final assembly of solar cells and modules

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIkwIzpuRYE

You are haggling like Hillary over trivialities

[Speaking for normal people]

and just yesterday I find to Biden's great disgrace
Rogue communication devices found in Chinese solar power inverters
By Sarah Mcfarlane
May 14, 2025

Such a goddam disgraceful man is Biden. If you still support him you are a cancer on society