Should Libertarians Prioritize Their Own Communities?

Eric Brakey and Andrew Heaton debate whether libertarians should prioritize building local liberty-focused societies like the Free State Project or focus on reforming the federal government.

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Should Libertarians Prioritize Their Own Communities?

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Eric Brakey and Andrew Heaton debate the resolution, "Libertarians should focus on building liberty-for-real societies like the Free State Project, rather than reforming an ever-expanding, uncontrollable federal government."

Eric Brakey, executive director of the Free State Project and former Maine state senator, argued in favor of the resolution. Andrew Heaton, comedian, author, and host of The Political Orphanage podcast, argued against it.

The debate was moderated by Soho Forum Director Gene Epstein.

Because of major technical problems during the recording of this event, the audio quality is well below Reason's standards.

• Editor: John Osterhoudt

Comments

[VULGAR MADMAN]

The LP are just one lefty loon away from capturing the presidency!

[Don't get eliminated(How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer penguin meat)]

If Chase wasn’t gay, who knows what happens in 2024.

[MasterThief]

Maybe the LP could have finished higher than fucking 5th place behind Kamala, Jill Stein, and a guy who had joined the eventual winner months earlier.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Wait what ????!!!!! Chase is gay? Wow. Who knew?

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

You can tell by the number of votes he got.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Did the penguin tell you to do this?)]

Yep, definitely at the bottom.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

They should be against the forced funding of communities they choose not to fund. And despite Reason not understanding this, it includes foreigners.

[Eeyore]

He wears a bow tie.

[Longtobefree]

" . . . reforming the federal government."

When you tilt at windmills, the windmill always wins.

-- D. Quixote

[MasterThief]

Damnit. You pretty much summed up what took me much more to say.

[MasterThief]

Libertarians should make their arguments on the biggest stages, but it is dumb to believe that focusing on global libertarianism advocacy is going to compete with the organizing power of collectivists. Most other nations aren't interested and will use your principles to fuck us over. Libertarians are a handful of scattered lone wolves and the collectivist sheep are many and will trample the few regardless of how potent their arguments are.
Libertarians should be focused on building at the lower levels and making some small part of the world better while providing a shining example that hopefully spreads. It's my belief that "libertarians" who are most concerned about open borders and globalism are either collectivists or will shortly become them. Most of the world is not in line with our beliefs and it's suicide to behave as if it is. I have a difficult enough time pushing back on the socialists in my community. We have too many invading from DC. Throwing in a bunch of South and Central Americans further dilutes any influence I had on retaining a self-sufficient rural town ethos that once was a close knit community. I'm never going to convince CA or NY to get the government out of our business so we can take care of shit on our own. I can do that and have some success in my neighborhood and local community.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

It's my belief that "libertarians" who are most concerned about open borders and globalism are either collectivists or will shortly become them.

They are naive.

Marxists are very good at cooking their beliefs into the language of others. This is how they have taken over many large corporations. They sound agreeable, but they are malevolent.

It is why Hoppes, Rothbard, Mises and others tempered their open borders arguments as they matured in their careers. They saw the damage and the cooptong of libertarian arguments all while importing votes against their ideology. They realized they couldn't convert people who disagreed with them after importing millions more who disagreed with them.

You could set up a pure libertarian enclave, but if you import numbers greater than the initial population who agreed with those views, the enclave will be lost.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)]

You're an idiot.

Globalism simply means 'cooperation'. We have a free trade agreement and we won't bomb each other.

That is "globalism" to you hicks.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Did the penguin tell you to do this?)]

Way to miss the entire point, retard.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)]

You two homos never have a point.

[DesigNate]

You’re a goddamn idiot.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)]

You're the fucking idiot.

What could be more libertarian than - FREE TRADE and the NAP?

That is what I support you dumb cracka.

[Don't get eliminated(How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer penguin meat)]

Nobody buys your bullshit

[Rick James]

P.J. O'Rourke, in an interview before he died, right here on Reason (the interview, not the death) made the best assessment of libertarianism as a political force I've ever heard:

"Libertarianism will never be a major political force because libertarianism isn't a political movement, it's actually an anti-political movement".

That is accurate, truthful and realistic. And it has nothing to do with throwing shade on libertarians... it's just a simple fact of the temperament of the movement. Now, Beltway libertarianism... Libertarianism Adapted for Modern Audiences? That's a different story.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)]

Libertarians and classic liberals need to stand together. No MAGA and no progressives.

Except AOC. Hot chicks allowed no matter their political affiliation.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Hey buddy. Why are the economic predictions of you, boehm, and sarc always so wrong?

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/china-quietly-walks-back-quarter-us-import-tariffs-amid-economic-crunch

[InsaneTrollLogic (Did the penguin tell you to do this?)]

You are neither, Turd. You are a fucking neocon who wears libertarian clothing as drag.

[DesigNate]

He doesn’t even do that. He’s just a bog standard dnc shill st this point.

[Use the Schwartz]

Think Global Act Loco.

[Rick James]

How will this "community" exist outside the influence of the larger state and/or federal government? And will this community have like... an um, arbitrary set of invisible lines which will define that community? And will this community tolerate people who are unlibertarian or even... anti-libertarian? Will sex work be work and pimps have to register with the community? Will license plate scanners and mass surveillance be ok if it's done right and charges people a fare for driving on the uh, community roadz?

[creech]

Libertarians have had hundreds of candidates elected to local offices over the years. How many lasted more than one term? How many went on to win higher offices? How many had any long term effective libertarian policies implemented? Maybe Reason can track down the handful who have and let us know how they did it? I can think of only one long term Libertarian office holder; a woman in an L.A. suburb who has been elected and re-elected for at least 20 years. Maybe she can share her secrets and successes with Reason and the rest of us?

[JFree]

How much of a Libertarian platform or effort is devoted to the issues that matter at the local level? That gathers support for local efforts in that direction? If a party offers nothing to a candidate, there is good reason why candidates who are serious about effecting change at a level where they can do that will avoid LP like the plague

'Libertarianism' is a dead ism. Let it pine for the fjords. Long live something elsism.

[Speaking for normal people]

Maybe you are as you act, greater than the American Founders.
Still they weren't wrong like your ignoring them suggests.

If you want anyplace to be better
stop opposing religous liberty.
Stop posting so damn many negative depressing 'The sky is falling " stories on Reason
Stop trying to kill diversity in Economics thinking. Do you ever mention Gary Becker on the family....Julian Simon on more people as our most precious resource....all the research showing our aid has ruined Africa....the Dutch economist touted by Aayan Hirsi Ali on the economic ruin caused by unmonitored immigration, etc.

[Speaking for normal people]

In the History of Ideas this is a St Paul statement later strenghtened by the founder of Methodism, but you being ignorant of that twist to mean pretty much the opposite !!!

Galatians 6:10
Therefore, whenever we have the opportunity, we should do good to everyone—especially to those in the family of faith.

John Wesley
in the teachings of John Wesley, both "family of faith" and "household of faith" are used interchangeably to describe the community of believers.

Now,by unwittingly putting Liberatarianism in the religious spot you are telling anybody who believes in God that as a Libertarian you have 2 masters to serve.
This is probably the main reason I turned on Libertarianism

And now I see the face of god, and I raise this god over the earth, this god whom men have sought since men came into being, this god who will grant them joy and peace and pride. This god, this one word: 'I. Ayn Rand A PERFECT FOOL

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

'Should Libertarians Prioritize Their Own Communities?'

With, like, borders and shit?

[Speaking for normal people]

And I should add, readers, Libertarians are among the chief enemies in the world of Freedom of Religion and thus they further Marxism and Chinese torture and detention of Falun Gong and Uyghurs. The more honest ones show detestation of America's Founders for placing that first.

"Nothing is more dreaded than the national government meddling with religion." —John Adams, in a letter to Benjamin Rush. 1812

"[T]hat the opinions of men are not the object of civil government, nor under its jurisdiction; that to suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of their ill tendency is a dangerous fallacy, which at once destroys all religious liberty." —Thomas Jefferson, 1779.

"The Religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man: and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate." —James Madison, 1785.

"Driven from every other corner of the earth, freedom of thought and the right of private judgment in matters of conscience direct their course to this happy country as their last asylum." —Samuel Adams, Speech on August 1, 1776.

"While we are contending for our own liberty, we should be very cautious not to violate the conscience of others, ever considering that God alone is the judge of the hearts of men, and to Him only in this case are they answerable." —George Washington, in a letter to Benedict Arnold.

"Conscience is the most sacred of all property." —James Madison, 1792.

[Anastasia Beaverhausen]

"Because of major technical problems during the recording of this event, the audio quality is well below Reason's standards."

THEN PRINT A TRANSCRIPT! How many times do you need to be prodded to provide transcripts for your "podcasts"?