Are the Two Parties Any Different?

Two former Republican staffers, David Stockman and Stephen Moore, debate the state of the party.

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Are the Two Parties Any Different?

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Former budget director under Ronald Reagan, David Stockman, and Stephen Moore, Donald Trump's former senior economic advisor, debate the resolution, "In the current presidential election, both Democrats and Republicans consist of a UniParty that will lead us to the bottom of the national 'policy dumpster.'"

Arguing for the affirmative is David Stockman, former budget director under President Reagan. He is the author of six books, the most recent being his 2024 Trump's War on Capitalism. He blogs on his website Contra Corner. The resolution's mention of a "policy dumpster" comes from a three-part blog Stockman authored in August.

Taking the negative is Stephen Moore, Trump's former senior economic advisor and the research director of President Reagan's Privatization Commission. He is now a Senior Visiting Fellow in Economics at The Heritage Foundation. He is also the co-founder of Unleash Prosperity, which aims to educate policy makers in supply-side economics. He's the author of the 2012 book Who's the Fairest of Them All?: The Truth about Opportunity, Taxes, and Wealth in America.

The debate was moderated by Soho Forum director Gene Epstein.

Comments

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

The two parties are the uniparty/globalhomos VS the americans

[Roberta]

No, they are the Americans. We are the weirdos.

Are they globalhomos? Yes, largely, because people are mostly the same all over the world and at all times. There is such a thing as human nature.

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

Do you think cannibalism is an acceptable practice?
If no
Then you are not the same a hatians
Do you think slavery is acceptable/normal?
If no
Then you are not the same as the Muslims, the ccp or north Koreans.
Do you think rape is acceptable/normal
If no
Then you are not the same as Muslims or africans

People are different. Cultures are different. Some are better then other.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

'Some are better then other.'

That's why we need post-modern intersectional scholars. Otherwise, how would we know who gets special status?

[sarcasmic]

Only a leftist would ask that question.

[Chumby]

A two party system would be binary and someone supporting Chase would be non-binary?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

That's so gay.

[Chumby]

According to Ballotoedia, during the 2022 Georgia senate election he was in the rear and came in last.

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

I believe those supporting Chace AR called pedofiles

[Mother's Lament]

"Only a leftist would ask that question.

Democrats like sarc are more fascist than leftist.

[sarcasmic]

The guy who wants to put 11,000,000 people in actual concentration camps is calling me fascist.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Hey. Another lie. Unlike when you defended Australian camps for covid even if citizens tested negative.

Amazing how 99% of your assertions are projections.

[sarcasmic]

From the dictionary, a concentration camp is:

a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution

By the dictionary definition, quarantines are not concentration camps. While any staging area you send the millions and millions of illegals you hate so much will be.

[Mother's Lament]

1. You edited that. Which is why you didn't link.

2. The people in your concentration camps had tested negative but were still held as punishment for refusing.

3. Just like the Nazis you're trying to minimize your atrocities.

[sarcasmic]

1. Projection

2. They were not political prisoners or persecuted minorities

3. More projection

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Yeah. Definitely not persecution when government just rounds up people and forces them into camps for not complying with government directives.

Holy shit man. You claim to be a libertarian?

They were absolutely political prisoners. They didn’t follow the government mandates regarding covid. They disagreed with those fucking mandates.

This included crackdown for speech in Australia for fucks sake.

[sarcasmic]

Hey, why don't you dig in your heels and insist that quarantines are concentration camps, even though you know you're wrong?

Oh, never mind. You just did.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

I mean your heels are dug into thinking government can force someone into a camp against their will for a cold.

Go with that buddy. Makes you look totally libertarian. Government can do whatever they want to the people if they can claim a small risk of harm.

You call yourself libertarian?

[sarcasmic]

Retarded retard thinks that my objection to calling quarantines "concentration camps" equals defense of quarantines.

Retarded retard is retarded.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Lol. You continue to deny language despite giving you the definition.

You call it a concentration camp for those here who broke laws and given trials, but not for citizens who broke no laws.

It is fucking amazing.

[sarcasmic]

Quarantines are for sick people and people suspected of being sick, and that’s what they were. And no I don’t approve of them.

Concentration camps are for politically disfavored people to be housed and punished. Is there a more politically disfavored group than illegal immigrants? A president is running on a platform of giving local police extra powers and immunities in order to round up over ten million of them for fuck’s sake. If that isn’t political, nothing is. And no I don’t approve any of that. But you do.

I know you see the difference. But you won’t admit it because you’re lack the maturity to admit to being wrong. Aaand you’ll keep lying and claiming I was in favor of quarantines. Last thing you’ll ever do is be honest or mature.

[Mother's Lament]

1. Give us the link then, you retarded fuck. Prove us wrong.

2. Yes, and Auschwitz was a holiday camp. You and Misek should date. He'll hate the Jews and you can hate MAGA.

3. You don't know what "projection" means, do you, drunky.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Lol. You still defend it. And I will say again, including people who tested negative for covid.

Fucking hilarious.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

By the way dummy.

noun
a guarded compound for the mass detention without hearings or the imprisonment without trial of civilians, as refugees, members of ethnic minorities, political opponents, etc.

Guards. Check.
Mass detention. Check.
No hearings or trial? Check.
Civilians. Check.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/concentration-camp

I’m sure you’ll ignore the etc part of the definition though.

Amazing how you think this definition fits foreign nationals in violation of law receiving trials but not citizens in violations of non legislative mandates without trial.

[sarcasmic]

quarantine

[ kwawr-uhn-teen, kwor-, kwawr-uhn-teen, kwor- ]

Phonetic (Standard)
IPA
noun
a strict isolation imposed to prevent the spread of disease.
a period, originally 40 days, of detention or isolation imposed upon ships, persons, animals, or plants on arrival at a port or place, when suspected of carrying some infectious or contagious disease.
a system of measures maintained by governmental authority at ports, frontiers, etc., for preventing the spread of disease.
the branch of the governmental service concerned with such measures.
a place or station at which such measures are carried out, as a special port or dock where ships are detained.
the detention or isolation enforced.
the place, especially a hospital, where people are detained.
a period of 40 days.
social, political, or economic isolation imposed as a punishment, as in ostracizing an individual or enforcing sanctions against a foreign state.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/quarantine

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Is your argument that no two words can apply to the same thing now? Is that the idiocy you're going with?

or plants on arrival at a port or place, when suspected of carrying some infectious or contagious disease.

Not a port. From their fucking homes or in the streets.

Tested negative.

Try again.

[sarcasmic]

Talk about cherry-picking one phrase and pretending the rest of the definition doesn't exist. And it's all right there in front of you.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Are you literally retarded?

[Mother's Lament]

He's drunk and trolling, but yes, he is retarded.

[DesigNate]

Were all the people they threw in the camps brand new to the island “on arrival at a port or place”? No? Did they all test positive? No? Then what Australia did was far closer to the definition that Jesse posted than to the definition you posted.

I’d also point out that every country on earth was telling its citizens o stay home, so the idea they needed to ship people off to camps is ludicrous (making healthy people stay home under threat of force is bad enough).

[Mother's Lament]

Yes but Sarcasmic is butthurt, so he's going to lie about it even if they really were stuffing them into ovens.
Sarc is principled like that.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Flashback: Rick Perry demands "quarantine stations" for individuals who may have been exposed to Ebola.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/10/06/leading-republicans-press-for-limits-on-travel-to-prevent-spread-of-ebola/

Unveiling a new state task force to combat infectious diseases on Monday morning, Perry called for federal officials to implement "enhanced screening procedures" at "all points of entry" to the United States and create "fully staffed quarantine stations" wherever people are entering the country.

According to Jesse's retarded interpretation of the definition, Rick Perry was actually advocating for concentration camps. And, according to both Jesse and ML, that makes him a Nazi fascist asshole.

And let's not forget, when this was occurring in 2014, there was literally a man with Ebola dying in a Dallas hospital.

So, some questions for you:

1. Do you in fact believe that Rick Perry is a Nazi fascist?
2. Do you think that anyone who advocated for "quarantine stations" to (allegedly) stop the spread of Ebola, are they all also Nazi fascists?
3. So imagine it's 2014, you're governor of Texas and a man with Ebola is currently dying in a Dallas hospital. What is the preferred Jesse/ML policy for what to do about this? Anything?

[sarcasmic]

They know they're wrong, but they'll never admit it. That would be honest.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Thank God. Finally Jeff is here to pat your big water filled head.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

So, Jesse? Any answers to my questions above?

[DesigNate]

There's a world of difference between Ebola and Covid, both in terms of spread and CFR, so not a great comparison. What were the responses to Sars-Covid-1 and H5N1? Those would be much better to compare to.

Also, the definition sarc posted just above literally says quarantines are used for "detention or isolation imposed upon ships, persons, animals, or plants on arrival at a port or place" and the part you quoted literally says "points of entry" and "entering the country". Perry didn't call for just rounding up people that were already here and shipping them off to a quarantine camp. If Australia was sending more than just people who traveled to the camps, these wouldn't be close to the same thing.

So to answer your questions: No, no, and keep them at the hospital for the duration of time that symptoms usually present +1 day. (Note that keeping them at the hospital is also one of the things listed in sarc's definition.)

[Mother's Lament]

Yes, Rick Perry is a fascist asshole. Why did you think I'd say different? Are you going to bring out Cheney and Romney next?

But you and sarcasmic are even worse because the people being interned in Australia had already tested negative, whereas the people who old Rick wanted to quarantine actually had ebola.

But you knew that, didn't you, you deceitful fuck. Too bad everyone here isn't as gullible as Sarc, huh?
Fifty-centing would be so much easier.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Lol. You’re so boring and predictable, Jeff.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

OMG, dude, you are not really jumping on the calling the detention camps at the border "concentration camps" bandwagon are you? Cause that was some stupid shit when it was popular.

[Mother's Lament]

Pretty sure that the concentration camp booster was you, Mr. Covid Nazi.

But maybe you want to provide everyone here with a quote where I've advocated for anything near as horrible as you or remotely like your accusation. You know, to prove you're not a lying joke.

[sarcasmic]

Yeah, because saying "quarantines are not concentration camps" is promoting concentration camps. Yeah. Sure. Idiot.

[Mother's Lament]

You ignored this part for some reason:

But maybe you want to provide everyone here with a quote where I’ve advocated for anything near as horrible as you or remotely like your accusation. You know, to prove you’re not a lying joke.

[sarcasmic]

Because you edited your post after I responded, idiot.

[Mother's Lament]

No I didn’t you lying fuck.

And you still didn’t provide one.

[sarcasmic]

You’ve said you fully support using any means to quickly round up the 11,000,000 or so people in this country. Where do you propose to house them as they await “trial” or “deportation”? Summer camp?

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

This is a repeated lie from noted lying Democrat sarc.

But you avoided the roundup due to your hangover. How about start with criminal illegal aliens. Your team democrats just voted against a bill to deport illegals guilty and convicted of sexual crimes for fucks sake.

[sarcasmic]

Binary-thinking retard attacks strawman!

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Counter: 5
Misused: 4
Nonsensical use: 1

So you're now against deporting illegals convicted of crimes. Weird hill to die on.

[sarcasmic]

Liar makes stuff up to argue against. Must be a day that ends in 'y'.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Did you start drinking early to help your hangover last night?

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

How is your raging hangover buddy?

[Chumby]

Not sure the reason for that condition has yet ended.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Been reading Stockman for years. Very smart guy. But I disagree with him about Trump. He's far better than the current ruling regime.

[Chumby]

Boaf sidez are Trump!

[Mazakon]

Well, one party isn't trying to kill the other for starters.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Yeah, but the guy using the banner of one party is trying to kill both parties. Can't have that.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

What about Gabby Giffords?!? Oh.

What about AOC getting raped and murdered J6 tough guy?

[LIBtranslator]

Both persons accused of trying to shoot Fatass Drumpf were Republicans.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Lol. You don’t really believe this, hank. You may have a fragile grasp on lucidity, but even you know better than that.

[Brandybuck]

Here's a take that no one wants to hear: The parties are flipping.

A century ago, Republicans were the party of big government. The Democrats were smaller government and fiscal responsibility. This had already changed from fifty years earlier, when Republicans were mostly remnants of the Whigs plus abolitionists, and Democrats were still Jacksonian populists. Remember, our first progressive president was a Republican, Teddy Roosevelt. And his Democrat cousin, Franklin, campaigned on fiscal responsibility.

But then the Great Depression happened, Hoover made it worse, and FDR was swept into power. At that moment the sides changed. Democrats became fiscal idiots, spurred on by intellectual like Keynes who counseled them to spend, spend, spend. Meanwhile the Republicans wandering in the wilderness changed them to one of small government and free enterprise promoter. They became conservative (or rather, classic liberals).

This of course is all tied up with unions, emerging collectivist intellectualism, and down home populism.

Skip to today, we have the union base flipping over to the Republicans, bringing with them their voting block of protectionism and populism. The Democrats haven't really flipped yet, but... they're busy kicking out their Jewish base by being pro-terrorism and pro-Hamas. Progressivism has been largely replaced by intellectually led Critical Theory and Identitarianism. And the party is being run by milk toast compromisers trying to please all their internal factions.

It can't last. Either one of the Democratic factions will come out on top, or the party as a whole will flip after a mass exodus of their base. The latter is more likely, and it's why the unionists all migrated to the GOP. The US electoral system demands that the parties be firmly split 50/50, so they won't be the opposite of the GOP, but they will shift and position themselves to capture 50% of the electorate. So not conservatives, but also not radical identitarians insistent on the expulsion of unbelievers.

So in the end, the parties are not like each other, but also are just like each other. They do a dance of a tight orbit about each other as they divide the voters between them.

Meanwhile, traditional conservative, classical liberals, libertarians, and anyone else on the market side of the spectrum, will be left out in the rain. We face 20th Century 2.0, another century of collectivist governments. Brave New World will have a love child with 1984, and Fahrenheit 451 will be the godfather.

[Rick James]

Here’s a take that no one wants to hear: The parties are flipping.

I believe I posted comments calling this era "the great Inversion" about 7 or 8 years ago.

[TJJ2000]

“The Democrats haven’t really flipped yet”

Neat trick; stating the obvious and then going on to defy the obvious. Do you the Democrats are going to “hollow out [our] ?public? ([Na]tional So[zi]alist) Institutions” and Republicans are going to pitch new ones endlessly? When has that EVER been the situation.

[Dillinger]

more like when you get your once-separated play-doh colors mixed than a true switcheroo

[mtrueman]

"Here’s a take that no one wants to hear: The parties are flipping."

I don't see it. The main difference between the parties is how they go about winning. The Democrats want to win by encouraging voter participation and making sure that voter turnout is high. The Republicans, by suppressing turnout and keeping it low. The laws enacted in Georgia illustrate this perfectly. Republicans seek to punish those who distribute water to potential voters lined up on election day with fines and jail time. Democrats opposed these laws.

These two opposing strategies are still very much in play today and show no sign of 'flipping.'

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

The dirty truth is large corps were always democrat as well. Look at all the investment banks campaigning for Hillary. Hollywood. Medical industry. Etc.

[Chumby]

It is unknown who the chocolate cartel supports.

We could ask big chocolate’s political lobbying group: Fudge PAC

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Obviously chocolate Jesus.

[Chumby]

If they go after their candidate’s opponent, it could considered a smear campaign.

Sometimes it can melt in your hand.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

""Brave New World will have a love child with 1984, and Fahrenheit 451 will be the godfather.""

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/09/omnipresent-ai-cameras-will-ensure-good-behavior-says-larry-ellison/

[Roberta]

According to poll results, on the issues they're polled on they're extremely different now. On many issues important to radical libertarians they're probably not much different, but radical libertarians are such outliers that that's to be expected — it's us vs. the world. Meanwhile, Republicans have lined up much more on the libertarian side of things in recent decades than independents and even more so than Democrats.

[Rick James]

"Radical libertarians" feel a lot like 90s era center left Democrats to me, but maybe they're technically not 'radical libertarians.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Call me a radical libertarian but when the last admin and the current one and their respective parties, both agreed that spending trillions on covid and shutting down the economy was a good idea; I can't see the difference.

[DesigNate]

To be fair, there were some Republicans who said we shouldn't do that. To my knowledge there were no Democrats who said the same.

[LIBtranslator]

Republican and Nazi prohibitionist girl-bulliers have infiltrated the LP and turned it into a turncoat Republican treason accomplice. The original LP platform is nothing at all like either gang of looters. https://libertariantranslator.wordpress.com/2022/05/15/original-libertarian-party-platform/

[Ersatz]

Why are you always on about girl-bulliers Lib?
... wait, I have a theory....

[TJJ2000]

I think anyone who has to ask that question has a deceitful agenda up their sleeve. Which is actually predictable being the Libertarian platform was practically identical to the GOP platform and their only separation was the idea that RINO'S wouldn't be a part of the Libertarian crowd.

Humorously; Instead of washing the RINO'S out of the mix, here at Reason anyways, their TDS embraced their own platform enemies, the Democrats, and now runs in complete contrast with their own Libertarian platform most of the time. As so many have pointed out in articles where writers are championing Commie-Organizations.

[mtrueman]

I don't think it's fair to say Trump is deranged. He's an old man and he's showing it. Forgetfulness, rambling, and physical decline are a natural part of aging, not necessarily an indication of derangement or mental breakdown.

[MasterThief]

I don't see it. He has never been a details guy and has always bloviated with dramatic hyperbole. He seems as sharp as ever. If you have examples of him showing clear signs of dementia like we had for Biden then please do share.

[mtrueman]

I don't think either Biden or Trump suffer from dementia. As I say, both show signs of physical decline, memory loss and lack of focus - completely normal for anyone approaching their 80s. Compare them both with Harris, easily 20 years younger. The criticism leveled here at her is her policies, her laughter, gender, sexual history, race, and other culture war talking points. Nobody questions her mental or physical fitness. 60 is a good age for a presidential candidate, and has proven successful many times in the past. 80 is pushing it.

[DesigNate]

If you don't think Biden has dementia, you've never seen someone close to you decline in such a way.

I said in 2020 that it was fucked up for them to be pushing Biden through all the election stuff as it's grueling for people much younger and sharper.

[mtrueman]

"If you don’t think Biden has dementia,"

I'm not a physician, and I've never had the chance to examine Biden or Trump close up in person. I've seen them both on TV and both seem to show the effects of aging you'd expect in a man of 80 years old. Harris, 20 years younger shows none of these signs.

"I said in 2020 that it was fucked up for them to be pushing Biden through all the election stuff as it’s grueling for people much younger and sharper."

I don't know that 'they' pushed Biden to run for election. He'd been after the job since the 1980s at least. But I agree that campaigning for president is much more demanding than actually being president. It's surprising to me that Trump's supporters don't want him to step aside, leaving him to enjoy his retirement and leave politics to younger, more capable candidates.

[Chumby]

I think many here would agree that you think as well as Biden.

[mtrueman]

You shouldn't put much stock in what many here think. Stick with me, Chumby. I give the straight dope, warts and all.

[Chumby]

I might go as far as to say that Biden’s cognitive abilities exceed yours.

[mtrueman]

From what I've seen, Biden's problems are general physical decline, memory loss, and speech impairment. Trump's problems are much the same, as one would expect in a man pushing 80. Biden's speech difficulties are worse than Trump's, but Biden has always had them, even as a stuttering boy, through to the gaffe prone politician till today. I don't see dementia in either Biden or Trump, just the natural consequences of living until 80. Harris will eventually show them as well if it makes you feel better. You'll just have to wait another 20 years or so.

[Chumby]

Yes. Biden is more with it than you. I will even quote the child kissing, folding, touching, and sexualizing politician that some of the Reason editors voted for with, “Isnwhyxkwnwbakovi ttk.”

[mtrueman]

"Biden is more with it than you. "

Enough about Biden, Trump or Harris. It's high time we discuss me. I promise not to sexualize you much.

[Chumby]

We already have and determined on a cognitive scale of Biden to 10, you are a 3/4 Biden.

[mtrueman]

Your responses to me are boring and childish. I know you can do better. Take a rest. Tomorrow may see you back in form.

[Chumby]

5/8. On a good day.

[Dillinger]

>>"In the current presidential election, both Democrats and Republicans consist of a UniParty that will lead us to the bottom of the national 'policy dumpster.'"

the premise is wrong it should be UniParty Ruling Class v. All Who Are Not That

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Sure, both parties are the same.

Now compare their agendas to the Constitution and founding principles, and tell us how their scores compare.

[Rick James]

Democrats want everyone to be free to use whatever bathroom they want, the Republicans want slavery to be reinstated.

How'd I do?

[TJJ2000]

Having to *earn* things isn't slavery.
Calling others earnings ?free? after Gov-Gun STEALING *is*.

You couldn't have said that more backwards.
Democrats were the slavery party that literally fought a civil war to keep slavery alive.

[LIBtranslator]

First accurate thing this sockpuppet ever scrawled.

[mtrueman]

Also compare where the parties get their funding. The Democrats rely on corporate funding, Wall Street, Silicon Valley, Hollywood etc. Republicans also are funded by the corporations, notably from the oil giants. Trump also markets signed bibles, sneakers commemorating his survived assassination attempt, and NFTs depicting Trump in a variety of heroic poses and situations. Harris is not nearly adept at exploiting her brand, which was non existent up to a couple months ago.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

Oh her brand is around.

https://www.worldmarket.com/p/kamala-harris-action-figure-601624.html?msockid=0ab971c1440662632a3d653f45896328

[mtrueman]

I don’t think you can't really compare the two. Trump’s brand has been well established since the 1980s. Ellis riffs on Trump in his novel American Psycho (1991), and he had extremely widespread exposure as a host of a very popular TV show for many years. As for Harris, Trump himself claims that she’s an unknown and the American public doesn’t even know her race or how to pronounce her name.

[Jerry B.]

“Are the Two Parties Any Different?”

Well, one has had two assassination attempts against its presidential candidate. Aside from that, not much.

[mtrueman]

There were three. Don't forget the time when armed FBI agents with instructions to kill Trump raided his stately home in Florida.

[Uncle Jay]

"Are the Two Parties Any Different?"

You could make an excellent argument there was no real difference between the two parties from 1932 to 2008.
But with radicalization of the democrat party with Obama, Biden and Harris, they are going further to the left every day, alienating all sane people and destroying our economy with their laughable policies.
Granted, there are some GOP members like Murkowski, Collins, Graham, the Bush family and Cheney who willing go along with the democrats every whim, but real conservatives are few and far between.
As our country becomes more divided politically, one has to wonder if there will be either a civil war or a national divorce in our future.

[AT]

So, let’s put to bed both of those ideas right now.

A civil war is unfeasible. Secession, perhaps – but an outright civil war where the average American is taking up arms and exercising violence over other Americans? No. Not with families and careers and the comforts and luxuries of first-world living. They’ll not trade their bread and circuses for violence on their front lawn. Most of them are ill-equipped for that, and even more are untrained.

Further, the average American is unfamiliar with militaristic life or how civil wars get started. Whether it’s feuding generals or a coup or sacking Ft. Sumpter. Even if they could sack a fort, don’t doubt for a second that a President like Biden or Trump would be serious about retaliating hard against them to immediately quell them.

So, let’s not pretend there’s going to be a civil war akin to that of the Civil War. The only chance of that happening might be if states start seceding, and Big Fed doesn’t let them. And even then, it won’t affect people outside of those seceding states or their borderlands.

As for a national divorce – simple question: how? Consider a marital divorce where the couple has been married for almost 250 years, amassed property, shared assets, and have really strong feelings towards certain possessions. How would you possibly start to divide that? Think about military bases, hardware, and personnel. Think about interstates and waterways. Think about the geographical spread of family populations. Think about energy production. Think about the distribution of natural resources. Think about interstate compacts and treaties. Think about the international treaties, diplomats, and foreign relations. Think about farmland vs industrial centers. Think about the State and National debts. Think about the unfunded liabilities and the stock market. We’re a nation that is fractured into two basic partisan interests. Think about how the population is distributed across the nation. California, for example, is hard blue in SF, LA, SD, and other parts of the coast west of I-5. But then eastern Cali is where all the farmers are. Same with Washington. Think about Chicago and Minneapolis and Madison who are just blue strongholds in otherwise full-on red States. The leftists concentrate themselves in large urban centers; while the folks on the right spread out across the suburbs and rural areas. A nation like the USA cannot be so easily divided into two without a plan for property sale and relocation.

No, it’d never happen. Instead, America would end up Balkanized – to everyone’s detriment. And let’s not forget all the illegals. Where they heck do they go, if not back to their country of origin?

We’re just going to have to learn how to get along with each other. We need to start honoring the very few civic duties the Founders demanded of us. We used to know how, even despite vehement discrepancies in values and morals. Problem is, A) we let the psychotics define the partisanship, and the politicians and their media lackeys realized that’s a path to fortune, power, and control; and B) the People have become lazy, uninformed, and apathetic.

The more likely scenario with a shot of coming out ahead is a foreign invasion in earnest. Russia, China, Iran and all their respective proxy nations – y’know, the asshole countries that we ought to nuke on general principle. If they put boots on soil and started putting guns to the heads of Americans, that might pull Americans out of their barca loungers and force them to put aside differences (assuming leftists don’t just immediately roll over in subservience to their new masters) to address a common enemy.

Outside of that? Divided we fall.

[mtrueman]

"but an outright civil war where the average American is taking up arms and exercising violence over other Americans? No."

Average Americans need not be involved. America is a nuclear power, the world's first, in fact. In all this time, average Americans have never got close to the nuclear button. Gaza, coming to a city near you.

[TJJ2000]

Problem is the "Divided we fall" is already realization.

More than 1/2 the nation has decided the US Constitution doesn't matter anymore and criminal Gov-Gun promises of theft from those 'icky' people dispersed to their benefit was more important. So important in-fact a good portion of D.C. started openly and proudly championing [Na]tional So[zi]al[ism].

Are you suggesting the other less than 1/2 join the Nazi crusade to 'save' the Nazi-Nation?

[Liberty Yeti]

" They’ll not trade their bread and circuses for violence on their front lawn. "

Doesn't have to be on their front lawn. More likely will be lone-wolf terrorism and the country will look like the Middle East. It's already started with Antifa and the tranny school schooters. And the only thing standing between the USA and the right's retaliation is the hopium of one giant orange buffoon who might fix the economy but was a total failure at fixing the underlying problems of the country.

"And let’s not forget all the illegals. Where they heck do they go, if not back to their country of origin."

I believe the old saying at closing time was, "You can go anywhere you want, but you can't stay here." Yes, exactly. They go away. Country of origin, Canada, Antarctica, wherever. Just. Not. Here.

"We’re just going to have to learn how to get along with each other. "

I will not unite with the oppressive left, ever. They've made it clear this is an Us Vs. Them battle and only one will be permitted to remain breathing. So be it. We will reject them the way they rejected us, and there will NEVER be peace between our peoples. I don't trust them. Hell, I don't even really trust those from the left who claim to have repented like Naomi Wolf or Tulsi Gabbard or Glenn Greenwald. I have enough evidence of people around me never *really* changing, only pretending to, that I'm not fully buying it.

It's the globalists and their useful idiots, vs. everyone else. Period. Forever.

[IceTrey]

No, they both embrace coercion.

[David Emami]

"Which is a better spacecraft, a Prius or a Falcon-9?"
"They're both the same, neither of them can make it to Alpha Centauri."

[Marc St. Stephen]

It's tempting to say they aren't different, but there are key differences. Here's one: Our taxes always go up under Democrats, not always with Republicans. Here's another: Some minorities become favored under Democrats at the expense of everyone else, Republicans will attempt to screw everyone equally.

[LIBtranslator]

So... one girl-bullying mystical looter debates another. Where have we seen THAT before? Is there that much nostalgia for the Wallace-Nixon-Humphrey era?