Do New Documents Prove a COVID Lab Leak?
Health reporter Emily Kopp and biologist Alex Washburne discuss new documents that detail plans to manipulate bat-borne coronaviruses in Wuhan on the latest episode of Just Asking Questions.
A recently published document reveals "smoking gun" evidence of COVID-19's lab-based origin, according to Richard Ebright, a microbiologist at Rutgers and one of the earliest proponents of the lab leak hypothesis.
Ebright is referring to an invoice that shows an order for a particular enzyme that he believes scientists used to stitch together the genome for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. However, Alina Chan, a microbiologist affiliated with MIT and Harvard and co-author of Viral: The Search for the Origin of COVID-19, says that because the documents in questions are from early 2018, they do not constitute direct evidence, meaning there still "isn't enough to say a lab accident happened beyond reasonable doubt."
Emily Kopp, a science and health reporter working for the public health watchdog group U.S. Right to Know, obtained and published this latest batch of documents—which she obtained through a FOIA request to the U.S. Geological Survey—on January 18. The more than 1,400 pages are communications about and early drafts of the DEFUSE proposal, a grant application seeking funding from the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) to collect and manipulate bat-borne viruses. EcoHealth Alliance, a U.S.-based nonprofit group, authored the grant, which they proposed as a collaboration between U.S.-based virologists and the Wuhan Institute of Virology, the lab located in the city where the first known cases of COVID-19 appeared. DARPA ultimately rejected the proposal as too risky, but critics like Ebright believe that the work likely continued on in Wuhan anyway.
Kopp joined Reason's Zach Weissmueller to discuss the documents on the latest episode of Just Asking Questions. Also joining them was mathematical biologist Alex Washburne, who co-authored a pre-print in October 2022 arguing the genome of SARS-CoV-2 had a "fingerprint" indicating that it was created in a lab. The virus that scientists proposed creating in the newly released DEFUSE documents shares several characteristics that Washburne and his colleagues flagged in the study, such as unusually uniform segment lengths and the presence of the enzyme that Ebright flagged as a "smoking gun."
In this conversation, they discuss the documents in detail, the ways in which they validate predictions in Washburne's paper, the remaining unknowns in the COVID origin case, comments from EcoHealth Alliance founder Peter Daszak seemingly downplaying that most of the proposed virology work would be done in China, and the difficulty of getting the scientific and media establishments to take new evidence pointing to a lab origin seriously.
Watch the full conversation on Reason's YouTube channel or on the Just Asking Questions podcast feed on Apple, Spotify, or your preferred podcatcher.
Sources referenced in this conversation:
DEFUSE: PREEMPT Volume 1 no ESS HR00118S0017 EcoHealth Alliance DEFUSE
Endonuclease fingerprint indicates a synthetic origin of SARS-CoV-2 | bioRxiv
Kristian Anderson criticizes Washburne's study: "Poppycock"
New Research Points to Wuhan Market as Pandemic Origin | The New York Times
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
"In philosophy, Occam's razor is the problem-solving principle that recommends searching for explanations constructed with the smallest possible set of elements. It is also known as the principle of parsimony or the law of parsimony."
But no, let's blame the "wet market" [somehow much less "racist"] about 400 yards from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, and some hapless pangolins, bats, or raccoon dogs.
If a bunch of people got radiation poisoning and the government insisted it was from potatoes at a farmers market and totally not the nuclear weapons being tested down the street, would you believe them?
It's not 400 yards away. It's either 7 km away or 15 km away. The facility that is 400 yards from that market is the JinYintan Hospital where the first cases were concentrated.
Well that makes all the difference!
You must be a shitty hunter.
You’re a stupid fuck.
What a desperate attempt to minimize.
Great article, Mike. I appreciate your work, i’m now creating over $35,200 dollars each month simply by doing a simple job online! I Great article, Mike. I appreciate your work, i’m now creating over $35,000 dollars each month simply by doing a simple job online! I do know You currently making a lot of greenbacks online from $28,000 dollars, its simple online operating jobs.
.
.
Just open the link————————————>>> http://Www.work.salary49.Com
Do you think people visit wet markets or people hunt at wet markets?
A billion realities and i guarantee you i fuck the pangolin in every one of them.
That would make it 99.99999% certain that pangolins are the vector
Butt twat would happen if a billion pangolins hammered randomly on a billion typewriters (or keyboards) for a trillion years??!!? TWAT would happen THEN, Oh Great Smart-Ass?!?!? Would they write the next article (or comments?) of the Reasonoids From Beyond Space and Time?!?!?! Would they even write MY comments for me?!?!? Unbidden?! Un-Biden, or even Un-Dead Biden?
Oh My Government Almighty, these are udderly FRIGHTENING thoughts!!! That YOU brought to mind, mind you!!! Shit is all YOUR fault!!!!
Where the hell is Daszak? Why hasn't congress pulled his ass in and asked some questions? At the very least they should do this..and if there is any evidence he should be arrested on grounds of mass murder.
Common sense tells you what happened.
Unfortunately common sense isn't very common.
Even more unfortunately, common sense can be wrong. Common sense is used as an explanation when people don't want to be bothered to use rigorous methods of evidence and reasoning to explain something. It is in those situations that being skeptical of common sense is essential.
How would you know? You’ve demonstrated that you have no connection common sense.
This is the steaming pile of shit who supports murder of the unarmed to prevent, uh, well the asshole isn't really sure:
JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?...”
Fuck off and die, scumbag.
Sensus communis non est usitatissimus
Indeed it does, but in reality there are two possibilities: they LIHOP or they MIHOP. The fact that the MSM refuses to acknowledge even a lab leak tells us all we need to know. It’s clearly mihop.
How dare people wait for actual facts instead of believing conspiracy theories!
Remember when it was against Twitter and Youtube policies to even suggest that COVID came from a lab? How people weren't allowed to even talk about it?
Remember when I gave a shit? Me neither.
Yet here you are being retarded about it.
He's constipated that way.
Now that you mention it, an extreme case of constipation would explain a lot.
The only question is how far the shit is backed up?
Up to his ears.
There’s no room for shit in him. He’s loaded with bottom shelf liquor. So he probably just shits himself when he’s passed out in his back alley garbage can.
Having your head that far up your own ass is not constipation, it's a kink.
Why don’t you give a shit about outright censorship of views that don’t conform to the government apparatus’s preferred narrative?
Legit question.
Exactly. The proper response is to accept the narrative and don't ask questions.
Only the left wing narrative. But sarc’s not a leftist though. Just ask him, he’ll tell you.
Just ask him, he’ll tell you.
Ummm, the second part of my comment very clearly states, "don't ask questions."
I laughed.
Lol.
Which narrative? Tucker Carlson's? Alex Jones'?
Well, the narrative would be what the government is telling you. Tucker's was what you labeled a conspiracy theory.
Tucker is what I would call the right wing narrative.
What was wrong about his narrative? Which facts that he based his narrative off of are wrong?
I didn't say anything about his narratives. My point is that you claim others are pushing a narrative while denying that you are pushing one. Pure projection.
“I didn’t say anything about his narratives.”
You did though. It’s right above. Everyone can see it.
How embarrassing for you.
Wut?
sarcasmic 2 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Tucker is what I would call the right wing narrative.
Oh, ok. I said something about it. I said it exists. I said “The”.
As always I can’t tell if you’re a law student or someone with cognitive disabilities.
Maybe both with the goal of becoming a politician.
You can't push a narrative while claiming only the other side has a narrative. Well, you can but it would be intellectually dishonest. Or Thursday in the comments.
So, both sides push a narrative, but only one side can push a conspiracy theory? Got it.
Only one side does, that I can tell anyway.
If you’ve got come conspiracy theories that are widely believed, and not part of the right-wing narrative, lay them on me. Because I don’t know of any. Ok, Trump and Russia. There's one. Though it fails the "widely believed" test. Even if you could, I doubt it would offset the metric shitton of conspiracy theories pedaled (and believed) by the political right.
Hunter Biden laptop is fake.
Masks work.
Vaccines prevent infection.
Lab Leak is Russian disinformation.
Steele Dossier.
You continue to call the correct side a conspiracy, and continue to deny the state backed narrative has been wrong over and over.
You truly are a leftist moron at this point.
Now do your team.
How about you do it since you're the one claiming everything you're wrong about is a conspiracy.
Despite your lies, I don't have a team. If I did then I'd actually defend the things you accuse me of defending. But I never do.
You constantly do. See this morning. See you defending open borders despite costs or any negative stories. See how you only ever agree with shrike and Jeff.
So now, can you post the list to back up your assertion?
See you defending open borders despite costs or any negative stories.
No, I showed that you praise Wilson and anti-Chinese immigration laws.
Democrat Rep. Robert Garcia: "The Donald Trump and MAGA plan is alligator moats, bombing northern Mexico, shooting migrants in the legs, and electrifying the fence and putting spikes on them."
"I want to remind the public that Donald Trump and House Republicans also have their own ideas for the border ... Donald Trump actually has said he wants to build alligator moats along the border ... another idea that Donald Trump has promoted, he actually wants to electrify the border fence and maybe even put some spikes on the border. That's another Donald Trump and MAGA majority border idea.
Another idea ... bomb Northern Mexico with missiles. That's another Trump idea.
And finally one of the things that I think is most grotesque is the idea that maybe we should just shoot migrants in the legs as they cross the border."
https://twitter.com/theblaze/status/1752380058411643274
https://twitter.com/loganclarkhall/status/1752381042911248854
That’s crazy. You don’t shoot them in the leg.
I want sharks with friggin' laser beams. Maybe an ill-tempered sea bass.
When the narrative is backed by evidence and continues to be backed up by new evidence...
But thats not what you care about.
Also, please consider that without the "conspiracy theory", we'd still be waiting on those actual facts. As far as the Top Men were concerned, we were all supposed to accept raccoon dogs as actual facts.
Also, please consider that without the “conspiracy theory”, we’d still be waiting on those actual facts.
No we wouldn't.
Why is it that people who change their minds based upon verifiable information are the bad guys, while those who never do are the good ones?
You only “changed your mind” because you and your fellow leftists couldn’t suppress the story anymore.
The prior evidence was verifiable. You just dismissed it. Because it didn't support your preferred narrative.
Facts aren't based on whether Herr Sarc accepts them or not. You've been wrong on every major story for a decade.
The conspiracy theory narrative sold to you R's three years ago is UNDERMINED by the recent document release.
Your narrative was originated by a Chinese media billionaire exile Guo Wengui (aka - lots of aliases - previously connected to both Bannon and Trump) who started hawking ivermectin, zinc, etc as the 'cure' to the 'bioengineered CCP virus' starting in late Jan 2020. With a YouTuber named Wang Dinggang (aka Yu De) and a pretend 'whistleblower' named Yan Li-Meng feeding every right-wing conspiracy theory idiot exactly what they wanted to hear anyway.
And while there are a lot of Chinese names in the above paragraph - the real responsibility for this narrative catching on in the US are natural-born Americans like Bannon and Carlson and Trump.
Not all narratives with the word 'lab' in them are the same. Nor do you and your ilk become correct when a later story mentioning 'lab' turns out to be correct.
That the virus escaped from a lab was always a reasonable working hypothesis. The problem with dismissing things because they are "conspiracy theories" is that some conspiracy theories are quite reasonable. Such as the theory that government and media conspired and colluded to suppress open discussion of the theory that the virus might have come from a lab.
Without facts to back them up they're still conspiracy theories. Yes of course some turn out to be true. Most don't. What were they? Nobody remembers because there's no reason to.
What I don't understand is the hatred directed at people who change their minds based upon the available facts. Why hate someone who comes around to your point of view when the facts bear it out? Because they weren't part of the club?
You mean without facts you can't blindly dismiss. Because the entire lab leak theory was based on facts. It even references information in this story that was repeated back in 2019.
Using your god given common sense to come up with the most likely explanation isn’t a conspiracy theory though.
In regards to your second paragraph: Also, none of the people that sat there for 4 years have bothered to apologize for their snarky remarks and angry retorts against people they disagreed with.
Also also the motherfuckers who were actively working to suppress any conversation/debate/discussion of what should have been a common sense hypothesis have faced no repercussions.
Those two things may just possibly be causing some of the backlash.
Using your god given common sense to come up with the most likely explanation isn’t a conspiracy theory though.
What's the difference between conspiracy theory and conjecture?
none of the people that sat there for 4 years have bothered to apologize
When was the last time you apologized to someone who couldn't (and in this case still can't) stop saying "I told you so"? You probably said fuck you you sneering fuck.
Also also the motherfuckers who were actively working to suppress any conversation/debate/discussion of what should have been a common sense hypothesis have faced no repercussions.
I know. And they never will.
Those two things may just possibly be causing some of the backlash.
Against people who came around to your point of view.
If "Hey man, you were right." gets "FUUUUCKK YOOOUU!" as a response, no point in doing it again.
What’s the difference between conspiracy theory and conjecture?
I'd say that a conspiracy theory is a conjecture that involves a conspiracy of some sort.
But the term "conspiracy theory" is very loaded. It's used as a lazy and dishonest way to discredit people by lumping reasonable conjectures about current events in with the more ridiculous and deranged conspiracy theories that everyone is familiar with.
How do you know the difference except until after the fact?
I repeat. You ignored the facts you found inconvenient.
I ignored stupid shit from stupid people (feel free to take that personally), and waited for something from a credible source. Each time I'm given new information, I adjust my stances.
Contrast with you who declared what you believe and only believe sources that further that belief.
“What’s the difference between conspiracy theory and conjecture?”
A conspiracy theory is generally outlandish? That, I think, is how most people view the term, rightly or wrongly.
“When was the last time you apologized to someone who couldn’t (and in this case still can’t) stop saying “I told you so”? You probably said fuck you you sneering fuck.
If “Hey man, you were right.” gets “FUUUUCKK YOOOUU!” as a response, no point in doing it again.“
In my experience, people stop saying “I told you so” when you sincerely apologize upfront and stop making snarky condescending remarks. I’ve seen very little of that or the new culpa of “Hey man, you might have been right” across the different platforms I peruse.
(Admittedly, the internet is a shitty place for any of this kind of dialogue. I was about to go all scorched earth as I thought you were calling me a snearing fuck the first time I read the sentence.)
In my experience, people stop saying “I told you so” when you sincerely apologize upfront and stop making snarky condescending remarks.
In my experience, saying “You were right” is admitting to fault and weakness that will be met with “Fuck you! Here’s what else I’m right about! Why aren’t you admitting these other things? Fuck you!” After getting that a few times why bother doing it again?
It's not that it's outlandish but that it requires direct action to have come to pass and people actively hiding or suppressing the truth.
The theory that Faucci and the Chinese military deliberately released COVID would be a conspiracy theory while thinking it somehow came from the same lab is not. Flat Earth is outlandish but not nevessarily a conspiracy theory, though the Education establishment covering up the flat earth is.
Using your god given common sense to come up with the most likely explanation isn’t a conspiracy theory though.
It isn't "god given common sense." It is a cognitive shortcut our brains use to save time and energy to arrive at an answer that satisfies our need or desire for an answer now. It is a substitute for careful reasoning and evidence based analysis. Sometimes the "common sense" answer is valuable, sometimes it is not. The more you care about whether the answer is true, the less you should rely on common sense.
The real conspiracy here is you and sarc claiming there was no evidence until today.
It’s fine if it turned out to be a coincidence and verifiably wrong. There’s nothing wrong with saying it’s possible COVID did not come from a lab. But what happened is that people decided the ONLY answer is that COVID did not come from the lab and people weren’t allowed to talk about the Wuhan Institute of Virology being near the epicenter of the virus.
The censorship matters even if the reasonableness of either conclusion is still up for debate.
That still doesn’t make it a conspiracy theory. At worst it makes it an incorrect hypothesis based on the information at hand.
Neither of which deserve derision, condescension, or banishment from conversation/debate/discussion.
This is the steaming pile of shit who supports murder of the unarmed to prevent, uh, well the asshole isn’t really sure:
JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?…”
Eat shit and die, scumbag.
"Also, none of the people that sat there for 4 years have bothered to apologize for their snarky remarks and angry retorts against people they disagreed with."
But...but...amnesty!
There were facts. You ignored them because you were told to. Good boy.
Well I try not to hate anyone. And I will give people credit for coming around in the end (as long as they weren't trying to impose on people's basic rights or censor any discussion of the matter).
In this particular case, there weren't any facts to support the wet market theory either. But there was the strong circumstantial evidence that it emerged close to a lab that was studying the same type of virus. Based on that, I'd say that the lab leak was the better working hypothesis from the start.
You never know until after the fact. And by then you forget all the theories that turned out to be wrong.
When Trump leaves office in 2029, will anyone own up to the theory that he was going to be killed before taking office? Doubt it.
You can keep making excuses for being wrong, such as denying facts, but you were still ultimately wrong and won't admit it.
Quit babbling you drunk pussy. Your nonsensical raging bullshit has no value.
Did you know that?
Fuck off you leftist cunt. Even here you dismiss the lab leak as a conspiracy theory while defending the racist wet market theory as the only credible alternative. You claim "new information" changed your mind but it was always there if you bothered to see anything but the media's lie. Calling both of them theories would be fine but one must be constantly labeled a conspiracy theory by you but the one that requires numerous racist assumptions is just fine by you.
I never defended the wet market. Even now I'm not defending anything. It's been what, five years? I think in five more we'll probably know what happened.
You know why we hate those people who conveniently change their minds? Bc they specifically signed off on a lancet article stating that lab leak was conspiracy and then called us racist for even bringing it up.
Those fucks have no credibility - why are you pushing apologetics for them? Are you really that partisan or are you just trolling?
The facts existed. This is just more facts that also exist. The facts were posted in these comments.
Claiming those who were correct as conspiracy theorists instead if admitting you were wrong is just you coming.
Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. Covid came from a wet market. J6 was an insurrection. Math is racist.
Facts changed!
No, they "evolved."
There are four lights!
thanks! common sense led me to that 4 years ago.
Ok, but when is my reparations check coming from the CCP?
My advice is to take whatever you need off the nearest democrat. Reparations for their Marxist bullshit.
Although this is a fascinating study in the ways science can track down a series of events in retrospect - and the ways that it cannot - it really is beside the point. What if, for example, it turns out that there is a "smoking gun" in the sense of evidence in a court of law beyond a shadow of a doubt? Who is going to file charges against Fauci or Collins for lying under oath? Who is going to file charges against officers of EcoHealth Alliance for filing false reports required by their contract with the United States government? Who is going to punish the scientists who lied about the origin of the pandemic at Fauci and Collins' behest to avoid a political situation with the Peoples Republic of China? Will "immunity" protect Fauci or Collins from personal liability for causing a pandemic that cost millions of lives and billions of dollars? Don't make me laugh!
Lynch mobs still work.
In what sense do they "work?" The Jan 6 mob that fell far short of actually lynching anyone but resulted in dozens of lengthy prison sentences? Good luck with that.
Are we going with dozens here? Because Biden and the DoJ brag it is up to 1200. And if you dont think that has a chilling effect against conservatives I don't know what to tell you.
Lynch mobs lynch.
J6 was a protest fueled by Feds. There was no intention of lynching.
It just showcases the need to criminalize Marxism and eliminate the democrat party for good. It has no right to exist,
Does anyone here really disagree with that?
It ain’t the dems you naive fool. ITS THE GODAMN MILITARY that causes all this.
Were you intentionally missing my point or did you just not get it? If a mob that had no intention of lynching anyone nevertheless provoked lengthy prison sentences, what do you think would happen to anyone who actually lynched Fauci and Collins? Or the EcoHealth perps?
That’s actually an interesting question.
I could see it going one of two ways: either TPTB throw the mob a bone and let it happen or they react in an even more ridiculous fashion than they did to the non-violent j6 protestors.
You know, if I were a Gen Zer or Gen Alpha-er looking at the government funding of COVID research, lockdowns, student loan forgiveness, the continued discussions between Fauci and the Senate, the ongoing arguments between [checks notes] a microbiologist at Rutgers and a microbiologist from MIT about whether COVID originated in a lab in China or in a Chinese wet market, I would probably conclude that Capitalism was an utterly failed ideology as well.
One can see that the State is the perpetrator or driving force in all these things yet people just don't get it. They want more of it. Boggles the mind.
Which part of that list of nasty activities you posted do you attribute to capitalism? Every one of them was a government activity – EVERY ONE OF THEM! By the way, what part of government activities is capitalist? Only a truly ignorant or stupid Gen Zer would conclude that - but I repeat myself.
Which part of that list of nasty activities you posted do you attribute to capitalism?
Read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote.
It’s more of a far-reaching thought than this but, more briefly: If capitalism is so exacting and self-correcting, why aren’t these two academics arguing under a bridge somewhere?
Less briefly, if capitalism is such a dominant and/or pervasive force for success in light of the above, why does the public discussion still sound like a captured corporate media dialogue that will go on for generations as to where the virus came from? Rather than banning all spending of domestic tax dollars on investment in research in hostile foreign nations, hemming in plenary emergency powers on the part of Governors to cripple the economy, and whether nitrogen blanket or bullet is more expedient and/or cost effective at remedying the Fauci situation and/or preventing the next one?
Are you teaching your kids the same capitalist lessons you learned from your parents? Because that only seems to have brought us to where we are. Less setting them up for a richer and more free future and more of a lamenting what it was like when men were free.
Maybe even more briefly or clearly in light of 'Use the Schwartz' and 'Bruce Hayden's' discussion below:
The lab leak vs. zoonotic origin debate feels an awful lot like a "tastes great/not enough reasonable doubt that it's less filling" promotion of COVID or distraction from the fact that we're all getting light beer whether we like it or not.
FFS.
Of ALL the cities where COVID could have emerged, the p value on it emerging in a city with a lab studying COVID is pretty fucking small. In the US, they'd be on the hook for proving it *wasn't* a lab leak.
And as much as Fauci and Collins suck for not taking a bigger picture view of their restriction recommendations, that wasn't actually their job.
Whose job was it? IT WAS TRUMP'S JOB. He was the President, not Fauci.
Meanwhile the one thing he did well, push the vaccine quickly, Trumpist has summarily rejected.
Anyone voting for Trump in 2024, especially in the primaries when there are other Republican choices, is just batshit insane. Thankfully you all wear red hats and wave stupid flags so I can easily avoid you in real life.
especially in the primaries when there are other Republican choices
LOL @ other choices
Bubba likes war and government IDs to post online.
Governors enacted the restrictions. You know how you can tell? Because they were different from state to state.
Fuck you it was their job to not trick the public into believing a lab leak wasn’t possible.
Meanwhile the one thing he did well, push the vaccine quickly, Trumpist has summarily rejected.
Uh, unclear as to whether you mean 'Trump' or 'Trumpists' or 'Trumpistas have summarily rejected', but this sarcasmic or Tony-level hot garbage/fake news take from several angles:
- Trump is proud of the job he did with the vaccine.
- Trumpists are hardly the only ones to reject 'The Trump Vaccine'.
- You know who's job it is to make pandemic vaccines? NOT THE FUCKING PRESIDENTS!
- Plenty of Trumpists don't oppose the vaccine, they oppose a vaccine funded up front by the government and supplied, for profit, from Big Pharma.
There used to be a time when you weren't this abjectly stupid. I don't know if your handle got hijacked, it's a Hihn-style descent into idiocy, or a SQRLSY One-style one-note (on his lung flute!), but cogent, lurker turns out to be babbling idiot or some combination thereof, but you didn't used to be this stupid or anti-libertarian and it doesn't appear to be (entirely) TDS.
thread winner
Alina Chan, a microbiologist affiliated with MIT and Harvard and co-author of Virus ...says... there still "isn't enough to say a lab accident happened beyond reasonable doubt."
That's true. But these documents are exactly what is needed to find out whether that team did continue to do their work and whether they got funding from some entity other than DARPA. Because what they planned to engineer is the virus that happened.
It's like - you can find the infected animal(s) that transmitted the virus across species lines to humans or you can find the weirdest most unnatural elements of the virus that crossed species lines in a research proposal. The former never happened and is a legitimate reason for suspecting lab leak anyway. Now we have the latter.
meaning there still "isn't enough to say a lab accident happened beyond reasonable doubt."
This is dissembling, there also isn't enough data to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that C19 was caused by jumping species.
There is, in fact, no evidence that the virus jumped species. There was conjecture. And an exhaustive search to find the species it jumped from, to no avail.
On the flip side,
- EcoHealth made a proposal to DARPA to construct just this sort of virus.
- the gene editing standard for the construction in the EcoHealth GoF proposal leaves distinctive traces. They are present in the SARS-2 virus.
- the EcoHealth proposal proposed a fusion cleavage site between the S1 and S2 spike proteins in their GoF proposal. It’s present in the SARS-2 virus, but absent in all closely related viruses found to date.
- zoonotic transfer typically leaves genetic fingerprints or residue from the mutations needed to adapt to another species. Completely missing.
- the SARS-2 spike proteins are optimized to strongly attach to human ACE2 receptors. It attaches less well to cells from other species. How could that have evolved in another species?
Most recently, it turns out that while the WIV does contain a BSL 4 lab, the US does this sort of research in at least BSL 3 labs. But it appears that it was probably done in a BSL 2 lab, which probably explains how the virus escaped.
an exhaustive search to find the species it jumped from, to no avail… zoonotic transfer typically leaves genetic fingerprints or residue from the mutations needed to adapt to another species. Completely missing.
And these two are self-referencing/affirming in an inverse fashion of the “my mask protects you, your mask protects me” retarded. That is, regardless of whether masks stop the virus, there is one number for the permeability between two masks and another number for the permeability between one mask and the ‘who wearing which one protecting whom’ means precisely dick. The masks and the virus aren’t intrinsically linked in any sort of self-regulating fashion within the system.
The inverse: if it did jump from another species, we wouldn’t have to find *the one*, there would be hundreds potentially waiting to make the jump. The fact that we don’t even find residual mutations points both away from the fact that it originated zoonotically *and* to the point that originated in a lab. The masks above, maybe the virus permeated the mask, maybe the users employed their masks improperly, maybe it’s spread in some other manner, maybe our testing doesn’t have near 100% fidelity… the virus could’ve come from anywhere, there are limitless ways the masks could fail, or both. The virus’ origin, however, was not an immaculate conception ordained by God. It had to come from somewhere. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" is the standard in the court room, in science, we go with "probably so" over "reasonable doubt" every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
I agree. A couple things got run together. Disaggregating:
1) there has been an exhaustive search for a close progenitor in another species that could have jumped to humans. Mostly by the Chinese, who have the most to gain finding it (because otherwise it looks like they created the virus artificially in their WIV). None have been found in three years of searching.
2) there is genetic residue when a virus zoonoticly jumps from one species to another, and mutates to adapt to the new species. This too is completely missing.
3) And indeed, the cleanliness of the virus around the furon cleavage site between the S1 and S2 spike proteins is suspicious, in itself.
4) that cleanliness strongly suggests that the spike proteins, among other sections were grafted into another SARS strain, and the grafting appears to have left marks of its own, showing where and how the new sections of RNA were excised and replaced. It looks like CRISPR gene editing was utilized.
This is a deep dive but very readable article by Rand Paul that covers not only the conspiracy to censor the lab leak fact, but also ongoing and thoroughly corrupt ongoing taxpayer funded GOF research. Terrifying and well worth the read.
https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/lessons-from-the-great-covid-cover-up/
Thanks man excellent read
@LizWolfe, and that Zach Whatchamacallit guy.
One, please link to a transcript. It is 2024, have one available.
Two, pro tip for listeners. Listen at 1.5X speed. Goes faster.
I want video if we’re speeding it up. And score it with ‘yakety sax’. Maybe toward the end Zack can rip Liz’s top off and she can angrily chase him around the set.
I don’t often listen to long audio but this one was very very worth it. Kudos to Zach
Two, pro tip for listeners. Listen at 1.5X speed.
One hell of a pro tip. +10
Really? I thought the "It's 2024" followed by "'pro-tip' listen/watch at 1+ speed." was a joke. I haven't listened to any spoken word, besides live or comedy (or non-English), where cadence and timing are important, at anything less than 2X for probably at least 5 yrs.
Biden had unlimited resources that no one in the world could match, he seems to have pretended to care who caused COVID, and the man who said he was doing his best -- what did his commision conclude ? NOTHING
And Mr Lazy did this
The day after his inauguration, President Joe Biden signed an order creating a Pandemic Testing Board, which he said would be modeled on FDR’s hugely successful Wartime Production Board.
A trip to Bermuda if you can guess how seriously he pursued this.
He said he would be putting the “full force of the federal government” behind expanding testing.
LAZY and STUPID