Dave Rubin: Why Libertarians Should Vote for Ron DeSantis

The Rubin Report host makes the case for the Florida governor, who courageously defied lockdowns but is quick to use the state to punish corporations he doesn't like.

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Dave Rubin: Why Libertarians Should Vote for Ron DeSantis

This is the audio version of The Reason Livestream, which takes place every Thursday at 1 p.m. Eastern.

The guest on this week's livestream was Dave Rubin, the host of The Rubin Report. A self-described classical liberal, Dave talked with Reason about why he's supporting Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis for president. We cover a lot of ground, including DeSantis's highly controversial and very successful handling of COVID, his disturbing willingness to use the government to punish corporations that cross him, and why Rubin has soured on Donald Trump, who he supported in 2016 and 2020.

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Comments

[Gozer the Gozarian]

“Why Libertarians Should Vote for Ron DeSantis”

Are you people fucking high? There are very few reasons to consider DeSantize. His attack on 1A is insulting. His weaponization of government is obnoxious. You really want this fucktard to be POTUS?

Two words: Fuck no!

[Zeb]

That's all true enough, but where is Joe Biden not worse. I don't generally do the pick the lesser of two evils thing, but I can quite understand those who do. Desantis was one of the best governors on covid policy and I think that counts for a lot right now. The most important thing in politics at the moment is to get those who supported and perpetrated the insane covid response out of office.

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[Leo Kovalensky II]

That's fair on COVID policy. Although the banning of private property mask mandates should be a little troubling, it's arguably less offensive than mandating masks.

You have to be at least somewhat worried about a President with a propensity to weaponize government to punish the culture warriors. That ain't exactly what I consider libertarianism.

I'll most likely vote for the libertarian candidate either way. I don't live in a swing state, so who really cares anyway.

[Social Justice is neither]

I'll take this seriously once you're pushing to undo the State involvement in enforcing race, sex and religious practices in private businesses, until then STFU you hypocritical POS. You only make these demands to aid the marxists on the left serve their anti-liberty agenda.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

That all sounds good to me. So I guess I can have an opinion on this.

Now... your turn.

[Social Justice is neither]

Except you don't, not in any meaningful way and not in any action.

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[Nardz]

Leo is a malignant tumor, it's opinion is worthless

[Leo Kovalensky II]

*its

Thanks for (almost) correctly using my preferred pronoun.

[Overt]

"You have to be at least somewhat worried about a President with a propensity to weaponize government to punish the culture warriors."

I think this depends on what policies you speak of.

Whether you like it or not, the government is already weaponized. The government is clear that it has taken a side against free association and speech. You may not decline to associate based on several protected classes (race, religion, age, sex, etc) and you must not speak, or allow speech, in your business that creates a hostile work environment for such people. That is the status quo.

As a libertarian, I would prefer that the nation not compel association and speech in this manner. But if it is going to do so, I see zero problem with clarifying those rules with regards to CRT. Mind you, at my previous employer I had already made a convincing case to our HR department that CRT/DEI training ran afoul of anti-discrimination law, but there are a lot of conflicting voices in the legal profession ceding doubt. Therefore, it is entirely appropriate for the Florida Legislature to clarify, once and for all, that the main tenets of CRT- including collective guilt, racial privilege and presumed systematic bias- ought to be illegal.

Likewise, I see no problem with a government clarifying the same for agents of the state (including state teachers).

I do not believe DeSantis was correct to punish Disney for their speech, and I think DeSantis would have been better just hammering them rhetorically from the bully pulpit.

Nevertheless, on the balance of things DeSantis has done, he is far and away a better candidate than the many who have thrown their hat in the ring. His Pandemic policy alone has earned him so much "credit" in the "liberty" column, that it would take a whole lot for him to go into the red. I will still likely not vote for him.

[BigT]

Don’t forget his adept handling of hurricane relief and assuring a budget surplus in Florida.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

I don't, frankly, understand how you can argue that because the government acts currently in some illiberal way, that it somehow justifies "our side" acting against liberty for some perceived good.

That very sentiment is likely the root of where the Republican Party has fallen off the rails of promoting liberty and fallen for this zero-sum gamesmanship that DeSantis and Trump have come to represent; that there is nothing more important in governance than winning points for one's own side. I refuse to play or defend the players of this game no matter how noble the ends might be to their means. I prefer expansions of liberty, no matter how small, in all cases to some perception of my side winning.

[Patrick Henry, the 2nd]

It's easy - we prefer the government to act in a just way, but if the rules are the government acts in an unjust way, we will use those rules are the other side until they agree the rules are bad and we should go back to the proper rules.

Just letting the other side do it only means we keep losing.

[CE]

You may not decline to associate based on several protected classes (race, religion, age, sex, etc) and you must not speak, or allow speech, in your business that creates a hostile work environment for such people.

Unless you're the LA Dodgers. Then you can invite a comedy troupe into your workplace to mock the religion of the majority of your stadium employees, even if one of your highest profile employees objects.

[Zeb]

He seems to be a pragmatic conservative and I don't expect him to be any kind of libertarian hero. But at this point something that isn't Biden or Trump or total establishment GOP seems pretty good relatively speaking.

[Overt]

I think he is revealing himself to be more than pragmatic. There is a good deal of dogmatic sabre rattling.

[Zeb]

Yeah, that's fair. I was struggling to find the right word.
He does seem to be pretty good at actually doing the job of governor. That's more what I was thinking of. Dealing with hurricanes and being sane about dealing with a virus, that kind of thing.

[Overt]

For better or worse, I think he realized that being "right" on a bunch of issues wasn't going to distinguish him from the crowd. He determined that Trump largely won by appearing strong in the face of typical media nonsense. I think he has a highly curated sense of PR.

I give DeSantis a 20% chance of being Caesar.

[Patrick Henry, the 2nd]

As opposed to Biden who has shown he is 100%

[BigT]

Like Trump or Biden, judge by the actions; talk is cheap. Biden is a corrupt crypto-Marxist. Trump is a reckless narcissistic manager. DeSantis is an effective manager with strong conservative views.

[Ronsch]

Vaccine and mask mandates were politicized with the result the Republican Covid death toll rose far greater than for Democrats.
https://politicsofthelastage.blogspot.com/2022/12/update-on-covid19-mask-and-vaccine.html

[Ronsch]

DeSantis' Covid response was catastrophic, mostly, I argue, for suppressing the wearing of masks.
https://politicsofthelastage.blogspot.com/2022/08/floridas-covid-19-catastrophe.html

[mtrueman]

"Desantis was one of the best governors on covid policy and I think that counts for a lot right now."

We call this damning with faint praise. Only in the US could his record on covid be considered anything but abysmal.

[BigT]

BS. Look at all of Europe, China, Brazil . All worse, except Sweden.

[mtrueman]

The world is a big place, BigT. I suggest you look further afield.

[Steve-O]

Such as? I hear Russia and the D.R. of the Congo had some pretty libertarian COVID policies.

But if you are restricting your search to the 50 states (since foreign countries subject only to their own sovereign laws are not meaningly comparable), then FL comes out smelling like roses..

[mtrueman]

"But if you are restricting your search to the 50 states"

I'm not. There's no reason to. I suggest you also look further afield before gushing over Florida's incompetent efforts.

[Inquisitive Squirrel]

Maybe you should provide the basis for your argument instead of claiming something and then telling people "nuh uh" whenever they ask what you are talking about.

[mtrueman]

It's not my job to do your research for you. I want you to do your own research, and draw your own conclusions. If you do this I predict you will no longer gush over DeSantis' exemplary covid response but see it for the fiasco it was.

[Inquisitive Squirrel]

I think you meant to say it’s not my job to provide the factual basis for your argument. You are the one asserting a matter. As such, you are the one charged with providing the support for that assertion. Since you haven’t been able to provide the support and shirk it off as “not your responsibility” the rational conclusion is that you can’t support your assertion.

[mtrueman]

I’m not here to spoon feed you. If you are curious about how the American response to covid stacks up against other parts of the planet, the tools are readily at hand. You really don’t need me. I promise you I'm not referring to anything that you don't have easy access to.

[Inquisitive Squirrel]

So again, you failed to support your claim and blame those who didn't make the claim for not providing supporting evidence for your claim.

You can keep this deflective tactic going all you want, but just realize every time you try it, all anyone reads is "I can't support my claim, and fuck you for demanding that I do." Just FYI.

[mtrueman]

"So again, you failed to support your claim "

You are wrong. I haven't failed to support my claim. I've failed to lead you by the nose to what made me reach it. I will continue to fail to lead you in the hopes you've the gumption to do your homework. I thought I made that clear and all your whinging about me is failing to change my mind.

[Inquisitive Squirrel]

Still trying to deflect away from being unable to support your claim, huh? Welp, I told you what that translates to. Well done!

[mtrueman]

I'm not here to spoon feed you. I've said it before. If you are curious about how abysmal the US response to covid was, the means are readily available. Do your own research. That's what I want from you. Please do as you're told and leave me alone.

[Inquisitive Squirrel]

And another swing and a miss!

I can't support my claim so I will cry that others don't support my claim for me!

[Zeb]

He did start off a little too aggressive, but he figured it out a lot faster than nearly anyone else. I don't think there is a whole lot he could have done better.

[Libertariantranslator]

Translation: keep voting for the Looter Kleptocracy, only the Hitler-Jesus-girl-bullying half.

[Zeb]

Who said anything about voting?

[JasonT20]

That’s all true enough, but where is Joe Biden not worse.

That matters not the slightest unless he wins the Republican nomination. Until then, the choice is among Republican candidates and DeSantis should be judged entirely against the other Republican candidates. (Other than judging his "electability" in a match up against Biden, which is about how moderates and independents are going to view him, not libertarians.)

Compared to other Republican candidates, DeSantis has being anti-woke as his main brand. But virtually all of his actions on that front are contrary to what libertarians say they stand for. Free speech, freedom of expression more broadly, and less government control of people's lives.

The most important thing in politics at the moment is to get those who supported and perpetrated the insane covid response out of office.

It is part of the American psyche to not trust the government, even for those not libertarian or conservative. (It just becomes a matter of which parts of the government people distrust more and regarding what functions of government.) Americans are also much more independent minded that most cultures, where we tend to emphasize our individual freedoms rather than what is best for everyone.

That is why the COVID response in most states and from the federal government seem "insane" to some. Pretty much the only wealthy country with a more relaxed response to COVID than the U.S. that gets mentioned in a positive light is Sweden. Sweden, as of the end of 2022, did have a lower death rate (per 100,000) than the U.S. But the question isn't just what the government imposes. It also matters what people actually do. Some countries with much lower case loads and deaths from COVID were actually less strict than many parts of the U.S., but they had people that wore masks, socially distanced, sought testing quickly, etc., at a very high rate without the government imposing mandates. We'll still be studying the data for which interventions were effective and which weren't for years. There may never be definitive answers to those questions, either. Especially answers that people on all sides would accept.

Lastly, I would submit that the most important thing in government, at the moment, is for every candidate for office committing to improving the perception of all Americans that democratic government can and will work for all Americans. No candidate that works hard to paint the opposition as dangerous is going to do that, even if they are right. Democracy only works if the losing side accepts losing and works to increase its share of the vote. If it instead spends its time with "resistance" rhetoric and actions or insisting that the election was "stolen", many people in the middle will tune out, since they weren't emotionally invested in either side. That leaves the stage to people that will increase the level of vitriol and harden each side against the other, further discouraging the middle from participating at all.

That's where we stand now. Trump and DeSantis both make their brand on political total war against Democrats, with Democrats associating everyone right of center with them. What libertarians should be looking for in a candidate is someone that actually holds values and supports policies that they agree with and will argue those policies as being better for the vast majority of Americans than policies proposed by Democrats. Imagine if the U.S. actually voted based on how well government functions instead of whether Team Blue or Team Red was less evil?

[Patrick Henry, the 2nd]

"But virtually all of his actions on that front are contrary to what libertarians say they stand for. Free speech, freedom of expression more broadly, and less government control of people’s lives."

No he is not actually. He is in support of all those things.

[NM Dave]

Yes, Biden is worse. Shockingly, he's the worst person ever to run for office and the worst president in history. None of that means DeSantis is good. He isn't. His constant attacks on trans Americans, his attacks on Disney for their social positions, his opposition to Trump's successful First Step act... none of these are remotely libertarian. I simply can't support him. There's no way I will vote for Biden either. I'm sick of choosing the less repugnant candidate and I'm not going to do it anymore.

[SIV]

"one of the better governors on Covid policy"

Florida State Troopers were pulling over cars with out of state tags and ordering them toleave. DeSantis closed the beaches. He wasn't a Whitmer or Cuomo but then again DeSantis wasn't Noem or even Brian Kemp.

[Trollificus]

Gotta admit, covid response is a good litmus test for the evil level of a politician, same as being a warmonger. In both cases, the money was right. there. just dangling in front of them, juicy and ripe and plentiful. In both cases, accepting the fiduciary enticement is not only unethical, but will certainly damage innocent people.

Of course, with covid, you had to be willing to watch it damage your own communities. War, it's probably just far away (usually brown) people.

BTW, can we give the military-industrial complex and our own armed forces a little slack with that "killing brown people" stuff?
I mean, sheesh! Most people on Earth are brown. You start slingin' bombs around with the primary goal of enriching the ex-congresspersons and deep state bureaucrats who work for the MIC, you're bound to hit some "minorities".

[Mother's Lament]

Who do you prefer?

More Biden? Trump? RFK Jr.? Christie? Ramaswamy? Haley? Scott? Hutchison?

[Leo Kovalensky II]

Who do you prefer?

Spike Cohen, most likely at this point.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

What's Vermin Supreme, chopped liver?

[Leo Kovalensky II]

Basically, yes. That's a decent way to describe him.

[Libertariantranslator]

Or mebbe Turd Sandwich...

[Unicorn Abattoir]

SMOD 2024.

[Super Scary]

Vote for me! I'll get a slushie machine for the cafeteria!

[Nardz]

Leo prefers the status quo at all costs, because otherwise any value (all artificial) he has will be put at risk.

[Trollificus]

Kodos and Kang

"Abortions for some, small American flags for others!"

[bobby oshea]

Can you describe what you see as Desantis' "attack on 1A"?

[Gozer the Gozarian]

Banning anything. Changing curriculum. That’s not his job, and it’s an abuse of the state.

[Mother's Lament]

Changing curriculum is definitely in his wheelhouse, and what do you mean by banning?

[Overt]

Yes it is extremely odd to see people suggesting that a governor changing the curriculum of state schools has anything to do with the 1A.

[Patrick Henry, the 2nd]

That's what happens when you have "conservatives" like French being funded by the left!

[JesseAz]

What has been banned?

[Patrick Henry, the 2nd]

He's not banning anything. Changing government school curriculum to stop sexualizing kids and allowing grooming by pedophiles is also his job.

[SIV]

Hate speech law specifically targeting "anti-Semitism".

[Social Justice is neither]

Fuck off pedo defender.

[Gozer the Gozarian]

What the fuck are you on? Which pedo am I defending this time? Your dad?

[Social Justice is neither]

You're the one defending the pedos pushing the gender mutilation surgeries and hiding their abuse from parents. You're the one that sees special dispensationscas some sort of divine right as long as they're pursuing the queer agenda.

[SRG]

DeSantis as president with a solidly Democratic Congress wouldn't be too terrible - better than Biden with a shitty VP. DeSantis with a solidly GOP Congress would be grisly. But I don't think DeSantis gets the nomination. It'll either be Trump, or someone we've not considered yet.

[Azathoth!!]

His attack on 1A is insulting.

Except he never attacked the First Amendment. Never. What you refer to is the left describing his protecting the First Amendment from leftist censorship as an 'attack'.

His attack on 1A is insulting.

Likewise, this did not happen. Again you refer to the left describing DeSantis using THEIR prior weaponization of government against them.

How's that for a good dead thread fucking?

[VendicarD]

Be a True Libertarian and vote for Fascism.

[Patrick Henry, the 2nd]

No we are not high as most leftitarians are, and hence we will be voting for DeSantis. Because he isn't attacking the 1A, and he is only weaponizing government in a defensive mode due to the left attacking liberty.

[Thought about __ all my life]

HE will help keeps losers like you from violent domination of the public good. Go DeSantis

[MWAocdoc]

Although I won't be voting for DeSantis this time around, I believe he has avoided violating the Constitution with any of his recent reactionary attacks on "woke" in Florida. Although it's certainly debatable whether Governors should have the authority that the Governor of Florida has now, there is little doubt that he has that authority and that he has not taken any official actions that exceed his authority. Instead of attacking DeSantis personally at this point in political history, we should remain focused on clawing official authority back away from the autocrats now.

[mtrueman]

“we should remain focused on clawing official authority back away from the autocrats now.”

My advice: find a candidate who will make black Republicans out of black Democrats. Neither DeSantis nor Trump seem to have that potential.

For the past 60 years or so, Republicans have been picking up only a tiny portion of the black vote. 100 years ago it was the other way around.

[CE]

Trump was attracting more minority support (Black and Hispanic) than any previous Republican. The economy during his term was creating jobs and lifting people out of poverty, and he didn't apologize for having traditional values. Why do you think he had to go?

[mtrueman]

"Trump was attracting more minority support (Black and Hispanic) than any previous Republican."

Hoover and Coolidge and Eisenhower did much better. Trump may have done better among blacks than Romney, but that's saying very little.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

Untrue man: “Sure he’s better on this than any Republican in 90 years, but that doesn’t mean anything.”

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

My advice: find a candidate who will make black Republicans out of black Democrats. Neither DeSantis nor Trump seem to have that potential.

Demonstrably untrue, at least as far as Trump goes. Trump brought record numbers of black Americans to the Republican side of the ledger, at least in the context of the national election.

Outside of machine cities like Chicago, Detroit or other 'black' enclaves, the Democratic party is largely the party of wealthy, upper white middle class NPR totebaggers.

[mtrueman]

"Demonstrably untrue, at least as far as Trump goes. "

What % of the black vote did Trump get? What % did Obama get? What % did Biden get? I'm sure if you take the trouble to look you'll find it's only a tiny fraction of blacks that voted for Trump, and the prospects for DeSantis are likely to be even more pathetically small.

" the Democratic party is largely the party of wealthy, upper white middle class NPR totebaggers."

So it's not worth the effort to switch black Democrat voters into black Republican voters. With an attitude like that, yet another loss for the Republicans is in the works.

[Thought about __ all my life]

Yet the whole constitution history is against you.
All those rights in the Bill of Rights were first in the State constitutons (about 20 before the Federal) and we are a United STATES not a Divided Autocracy.

That authority started with the States and remained there until taken over by Biden and Obama types. Think of Unfunded Liabilities to build public unisex bathrroms , with a penal charge if not completed by a certain date.And then look how many EV charging stations were built when Fedaral law had the upper hand

WASHINGTON POST
Why the government built only 58 EV charging stations in three years
The EV fiasco should be a jolt to progressives’ senses.

[Mother's Lament]

Who is the most likely to successfully drive the money changers from the temple? Vote for them.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

That guy died a while back. Hint: he ain't coming back.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD]

No, he just regenerated into his second body, a few more since. As he travels through time and space, stopping alien invasions, saving people from catastrophe, foiling Hillary Clinton’s evil plans for world domination, etc..

[Mother's Lament]

I meant metaphorically, but Shrike will never pass on an opportunity to tip the fedora.

[TheReEncogitationer]

Ackshuyally, the guy with that name who was allegedly born of a virgin, allegedly fed 5000 with a few loaves and fishes, cast out demons, healed the sick by mere touch, made the blind see with clay and spit, was sentenced to die on a cross, caused earthquakes and the dead to rise from graves, and himself rose from the dead and ascended to Heaven…never really existed. Just not in the wheelhouse of a Natural Universe, no matter how much deluded and jinned-up “testimony” says otherwise.

But yeah, no hope either way.

[Libertariantranslator]

Don't forget shaking the maggots out of Lazarus' hide and ordering the stiff to git up 'n go.

[Thought about __ all my life]

I want to join the chorus of those publicly acknowledging what a dumb and poorly-spoken moron you are.

You love to pretend to be WIlliam James but he took the opposite of your view
YOU DUMB POSEUR
I believe there is no source of deception in the investigation of nature which can compare with a fixed belief that certain kinds of phenomena are IMPOSSIBLE.

William James

[CE]

Ron Paul, but he's getting up there in age (87).

[Don't look at me!]

Oh thank god, a DeSantis story. I was getting worried.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I was hoping this thread would remain a place of silent reflection.

[NoVaNick]

DeSantis has no chance unless Trump kicks the bucket. There is nobody more anti-woke than Trump and he is the one to vote for if you really want to piss off the wokeists.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD]

He truly makes them writhe in agony, Got to love that.

[Homer Thompson]

he does the same to the neocons ...

[2wheelexplorer]

and to independents, most women and minorities etc unfortunately...

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Was it seven or eight million votes Trump lost by a couple of years ago.

Four years later, in a nation that becomes less white, less bigoted, less rural, less religious, and less backward every day, the results should be even more enjoyable.

Run, Donnie, Run!

(Well, more like Waddle, Donnie, Waddle!)

[CE]

Are you sure about that? Who is having the largest families? The woke and Progressive? Or Catholics, Mormons, and Evangelicals?

[Thought about __ all my life]

IT is starker than that

In recent years, the fertility gap by religion has widened to unprecedented levels.
Projections suggest that the religiously unaffiliated (including atheists and agnostics) will shrink as a percentage of the global population by 2050, despite their numbers increasing in absolute terms, primarily due to lower fertility rates compared to religiously affiliated groups.

[MWAocdoc]

Technically Trump lost by 38,260 votes in 2020. If he had gotten 5,229 more votes in AZ; 5,890 more in GA; 10,342 more in WI; and 16,799 more votes in NV he would have won 43 more electoral college votes, since he only needed 38 more to win.

[Libertariantranslator]

Good point. German Jesus-freaks voted in a guy guaranteed to piss off the Jyooz. And that one did a number on election fraud fer shoor.

[Bill Dalasio]

For those concerned with liberty, the key objective in politics needs to be to break the control that the progressive managerial-technocratic class has over the bulk of our society. Without that, it's pretty much game over. That's what we all should have seen in the pandemic. For all intents and purposes, the Democrats are essentially the mouthpiece for the class, so they can be ruled out. The LP, with the success of the MC, shows a lot of promise. Reason, unsurprisingly, seems utterly opposed to them. Trump has said some pretty good things, such as ending the war in the Ukraine and slashing the bureaucracy. But, let's be honest, this is a guy who's still shilling for the vaccine and praising Andrew Cuomo relative to Ron DeSantis on the COVID regime. Lindsey Graham and Chris Wray will compliment his tie and he'll be demanding troops be sent in and doubling the FBI budget. DeSantis played the COVID game about as well as can be expected. And "weaponizing the state" against the progressive managerial-technocratic class that has been weaponizing the state for years doesn't really bother me all that much. Don't like it? Okay, let's get rid of that state power entirely, not simply demand conservatives unilaterally refrain from using it. No, my problem is that all the usual GOP swamp creatures seem to be flocking to him. When Jeb! and Paul Ryan are telling me that he's their guy, I have to wonder if they know something I don't.

[CE]

Once a New York Democrat, always a New York Democrat.

[Libertariantranslator]

Another girl-gullying, superstitious hack urging us to vote National Socialist? Again?

[MWAocdoc]

What we need to break the control of the progressive managerial-technocratic class over our society is to replace the district-based, gerrymandered, winner-takes-all two-party election system with a proportional representation election system so that there would be around ten percent libertarians in the state legislatures and Congress. The MC does not show a lot of promise or even a little bit of promise. Those of us who have been libertarians and Libertarians for a very long time have been here several times before, and this is where we came in forty years ago. Unless libertarians put every possible effort into a state-by-state implementation of PR, nothing will ever change.

[Thought about __ all my life]

Three things suggest to me that that will make thinigs worse
1)I taught a college class about ranked-choice voting on Constitution Day and it was opagqu to virtually everyone. Election fraud would skyrocket.

2) Rather, let districts be more random. To put all Blacks in one district is to demand that for a poor, Black, Catholic, heterosexual Democrat -- he must treat his Blackness as primary. The only non-contestable discriminant is PLACE, I will care more about my place by definition than about any other place

3) You are , unbeknownst to yourself, bigoted. there is no reason at all why proportional represenation of Libertarians should be anything !! My Catholicism or color or sexual orientation or nationality might be higher without making me not a Libertarian.
GO in peace

[JFree]

So – we are now in for 18 months of Presidential election bullshit.

Convenient that it will only serve to divert attention from the thing that should matter and that individuals can change. LOCAL governance.

Your vote doesn’t matter for Prez. You have no ability to do anything beyond your useless vote. Your opinion itself doesn't matter. What a fucking waste.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

In my case, my vote is literally useless.

[2wheelexplorer]

Living in CO mine is too...with all the CA and east coast transplants here now you can guarantee our electoral votes are going to whoever has the D after their name regardless

[CE]

It’s 48 months of Presidential election claptrap, every 4 years. There is no subjective or objective reason why the Dems should nominate Biden again, but not only will they do it, they allowed him to change the primary schedule so the larger states with low information voters he relies on will go earlier, to save him the embarrassment of getting trounced again in low population states where voters can meet him face to face and realize he has no business running a corner deli, let alone the federal government.

[Libertariantranslator]

The Jeezes Caucus wants all local races (dog catchers) to go to the Grabbers of Pussy. See its Ginger Geezus: (http://bit.ly/3DZrEa3)

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Dave Rubin is among my favorite faux libertarians. A typical right-winger who doesn't want to be known as a clinger so he strides around in unconvincing, silly libertarian drag.

[Mother's Lament]

"A typical right-winger"

Dave Rubin the married gay man who's adopted children with his husband and was formerly a popular left-wing commentator for the establishment Democrat 'Young Turks'? That Dave Rubin?

You're like a poorly programmed DNC bot.

[Inquisitive Squirrel]

I just attribute it to the concept that lefties embrace that anyone remotely to the right on any position must be a right-winger.

When you have a political party with no ideological nuance like the left has become, encountering ideological nuance is just not comprehendible. Once political positioning becomes religious, everything that challenges it is the devil.

[Ed Grinberg]

Right.
The corollary of "no enemies to the left" is "no friends to the right" -- anyone to my right, even if ever so slightly, must be "an evil conservative."
As these people see it, Dave Rubin has "revealed" himself to be "in league with the Devil," so to speak. Which means: Burn (or at least cancel) him!!!

[Libertariantranslator]

Mebbe Thug Blight will have him as a poster fratboy?

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/AuronMacintyre/status/1664804715765411840?t=r4m56VMQOnjrU6YeGD7Oow&s=19

If you have any faith left in technocratic rationalist centrism let this Lex Friedman tweet drain it from your body

"@lexfridman
I care much less about what a woman is, or a man is, and much more about what a good human is and how to become one."

[Leo Kovalensky II]

Nardz, I assume you are the antithesis of this tweet and care more about what someone's genitals look like than their character. Is that what you're saying?

[Liberty Lover]

Why libertarians should refuse to vote in the mockery of democracy that are the US elections

[SRG]

That's what the write-in option is for, surely?

[CE]

Politicians aren't like your teeth though.
Ignore them and they won't go away.
Why do you think Social Security and Medicare are sacrosanct? Because old people vote.

[RogerBarris]

I am a life-long libertarian who intends to vote for Ron DeSantis as the best and most competent alternative among the candidates with a plausible shot. (Sure, I would prefer a Chris Sununu but that isn't going to happen.)

That said, it is pathetic listening to Dave Rubin trying to justify DeSantis' actions against private companies, with Rubin constantly avoiding the distinction between public and private entities and pretending that DeSantis' actions against Disney are just a libertarian-friendly attempt to level the playing field instead of the retribution that it obviously is. He should just say the obvious: sadly this is the type of idiocy necessary to get nominated in primary system dominated by the worst and most idiotic parts of each major party.

There is a very good chance that, once past the nomination, DeSantis will not pursue actions like this, particularly at a national level where he knows the Federal government has no role. And even if he does pursue things like this, this would still be better than the actions of a Biden (or the high probability of a Harris) or - perish the thought - a repeat of the chaotic stupidity of a Trump.

Sadly, these are the types of choices that politics invariably give us, which is one of the strongest reasons why we libertarians want to greatly diminish the role of politics in our lives.

[Brett Bellmore]

Yeah, I'd personally rather that he hadn't gone after Disney, though as long as it's limited to taking away special status, I find it hard to get really worked up about it.

But I attended his rally in Greenville Friday, to see what he had to say, unfiltered through the media. And, while he isn't Rand Paul, he's probably as close to a libertarian as you'd stand any chance of getting into the White House.

The evidence is that he's a competent administrator, and that's not something to dismiss lightly.

He's good on the 2nd amendment, which is always a good sign, because if somebody wants you disarmed, you should always wonder what they plan to do that they think would make you want to shoot them.

I actually agree with most of the culture war stuff. Trans is the left demanding that you say you see five fingers when they hold up four; It's the lie they've chosen to demand allegiance to, to break down everybody's concern about the truth. And DeSantis gets that, that is explicitly his take on the matter, too.

I like him on economics, too. One of the reasons that, when I gave up on the LP, I went to the GOP, is that economics are central: If you're dirt poor, you have no choices. And the left wants to impoverish us all.

He's not really an enthusiastic drug warrior, got a B rating from NORML. That's about the best you can hope for in a guy who has a chance of being elected.

Biden is a dumpster fire of a President on his good days, (On the bad days he's a dumpster full of thermite.) and nobody the Democrats have any chance of nominating would be better.

Trump is too old, really doesn't have the right instincts, learned nothing while in office, and while he'd probably be better than Biden, that's not saying a lot. They'd roll him like a bowling ball.

My bottom line is that things have gotten dire enough that we can't afford to let the best be the enemy of the good. I don't know that the country will be salvageable after another 4 years of Democratic rule, with a packed Court and all out media censorship.

[CE]

Or as Reason would say, well, DeSantis is better on taxes and the Second Amendment and managed his state much better during the pandemic, but he's too eager to use state power to stop private companies from setting their own rules and pushing their own agendas, so we will reluctantly and strategically vote for 4 more years of Biden/Harris....

[TJJ2000]

Disney doesn't get 'special' treatment...
Oh yeah; that must be a state-enforced punishment... /s

That day people started thinking their entitlements were rights.

[Libertariantranslator]

This Thud's for all yew girl-bullying MAGA Rednecks whining and carpetbiting over Reason's failure to lick the blacking off of the Grabbers-Of-Pussy's boots.

[Lester75]

'Libertarians' should vote for Ron DeSantis if they want

- No local control (unless it's Maga-flavored). Cities and towns will not be allowed to enforce their own ordinances if a repub-gerrymandered state legislature disagrees.
- Federal law over-riding state law except where state law is Maga-flavored
- Outlaw of referendums because the majority might get it's way.
- A Christian theocracy (or at least mandated Christian prayer and the 10 commandments in every courthouse, public school, private school which gets vouchers and all government buildings).
- Gradual authoritarianism imposed. Like a frog being boiled, you won't notice until it's too late because at least the woke stuff you don't like is getting outlawed by the government.

[JimmyK24601]

Zach, move back to CA, or have you forgot?

[Libertariantranslator]

So this looter wants us to abandon leveraged, law-repealing spoiler-vote clout and instead help the Turd Sandwich enslave women and put doctors in jail. This is to spite the Giant Douche supporters who want to leave women be, stop shooting hippies, blacks and latinos over plant leaves--but have this wonderful plan for outlawing electricity instead. Only the LP voters send a message that we will NOT force you to wear your underwear on the outside or make Swedish the national language, so to hell with leveraged spoiler votes.