What the Political Class Should Learn from the Rittenhouse Verdict

Plus, Biden's Build Back Better passes the house.

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What the Political Class Should Learn from the Rittenhouse Verdict

Matt Welch, Katherine Mangu-Ward, Peter Suderman, and Nick Gillespie get meta on this Monday's Reason Roundtable, talking about how the media talked about the Rittenhouse trial. Plus, hear their thoughts on the various freedom indexes and Joe Biden's domestic agenda.

Discussed in the show:

1:42: The Kyle Rittenhouse results and media reactions.

32:08: Weekly Listener Question: How much stock do you put in the international rankings of freedom in the world put out by places like Cato, the Fraser Institute, Freedom House, The Economist, and Heritage?

38:09: The house passed Biden's domestic agenda.

51:14: Media recommendations for the week.

This week's links:

• "The ACLU Thinks Kyle Rittenhouse's Civil Liberties Got Too Much Protection," by Robby Soave
• "A Reality Check for Progressives on the Rittenhouse Case," by David Bernstein
• "America Still Seen as Free in an Increasingly Unfree World," by J.D. Tuccille
• "House-Passed 'Build Back Better' Plan Aims To Curb Methane Emissions by Hiking Heating Prices," by Eric Boehm

Send your questions to [e-mail]. Be sure to include your social media handle and the correct pronunciation of your name.

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Audio production by Ian Keyser
Assistant production by Regan Taylor
Music: "Angeline," by The Brothers Steve

What are we consuming this week?

Nick Gillespie

• Flying Over Sunset

Katherine Mangu-Ward

• The National Museum of African American History and Culture

Peter Suderman

• Flying Dog’s Obscenity

Matt Welch

• At My Piano, by Brian Wilson

---

Comments

[bobby oshea]

I'm going to try to get through this episode but I had to turn the last one off due to the Rittenhouse takes. The "he had no business being there" takes, the bad judgment takes. We only say that because we are too cowardly to go ahead and scrub graffiti off walls, extinguish dumpster fires in front of the people who set them, and be willing to defend something to the threat of violence. People see it as unreasonable because they could never fathom doing something like that - however noble it might be.

[A Thinking Mind]

And also the last one had "Scary guns scare me and I don't like seeing them." I hate that riots happen and I wish people with guns weren't necessary, but sometimes they are when wanton property destruction is happening.

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[wreckinball]

"he had no business being there"

Just an incredibly dumb take. Everyone needs to get out there and stop this sh$t

[A Thinking Mind]

Rosenbaum had no business being there. Grosskreutz had no business being there. Jump-Kick Man had no business being there.

[Lionel Brach]

Grosskreutz traveled 60 miles to be in Kenosha, where he does not live and had no business. Rittenhouse traveled 20 miles to be in Kenosha, where he has close family and where his job is located. But Grosskreutz had the right to be there while Rittenhouse was a stupid interloper who should have stayed home. All clear-thinking evidence-based libertarians know this.

[Tony]

They were protesting against cop murders of black people. You know, a cause?

What was KR doing there? Appointing himself an agent of the state, which didn't ask for him to be there.

[The Great Negro]

Protesting=burning, looting. Thanks dipshit.

[Tony]

You people thought you had the right to set the constitution on fire because you lost an election.

People burn shit when their basic rights are being denied by the state. Sometimes that happens. Welcome to America, which was founded on doing just that.

The funny thing is you're being a perfect libertarian: property over people! But I doubt that was your intention.

[Marshal]

The funny thing is you're being a perfect libertarian: property over people! But I doubt that was your intention.

It's natural to support innocent people over guilty people. It's amusing left wingers find this difficult to understand.

[Tony]

You think the entire BLM movement is guilty of something, right?

[Marshal]

You think the entire BLM movement is guilty of something, right?

I don't believe anyone is as stupid as they have to be to believe this is a rational conclusion from my comment.

[Marshal]

They were protesting against cop murders of black people. You know, a cause?

Wrong. They were there to commit arson and assault. Last year didn't you pretend rioters and protesters were different? I guess that was a lie huh?

[Tony]

Black people being murdered by cops with impunity is a bigger problem than fully insured businesses being vandalized.

Not sure if you know that.

[Marshal]

Black people being murdered by cops with impunity is a bigger problem than fully insured businesses being vandalized.

This is not the issue. The question is whether people who attack someone should be allowed to kill him without his fighting back or if he's allowed to defend himself. You pretend self defense shouldn't be allowed but I suspect your tune would change if it were you or anyone you cared about. You only support RH dying because you see anyone who interferes with arson and murder as the enemy.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

Has Reason decided to dispense with the Roundup because the commentariat provides better links?

[Pepin the short]

Looks like it.

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[Dillinger]

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[Chumby]

Maybe why Ken is allowed to put two links in one post.

[JesseAz]

Think they removed that filter finally.

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I think I once managed to put in three. There is also the possibility of putting more in a reply.

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[KHP54]

Is there a transcript?

Life is too short to listen to talking heads, even if it's only a podcast where you can't also see the heads doing the talking.

[Dillinger]

>>listen to talking heads

you should do that every day. at least one song. nothing but flowers or something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2twY8YQYDBE

[Ken Shultz]

The political class can't learn the big lesson, which is that their power and influence is often just a figment of their imagination.

The Ceaușescus may have genuinely believed that they still had power--right up until the moment they were marched up against the wall and shot. Ghaddafi and Saddam Hussein may have both genuinely believed they were popular and powerful right up until the walls caved in on them.

Our progressive elites suffer from the same issue, where they vastly overestimate their own popularity and their ability to influence people. The things they say on television are mostly ignored by the American people--and widely ridiculed when people are paying attention.

One of the prevailing theories bouncing around about the reaction to CRT is that when they locked down the schools and went online, parents started seeing the crap the teachers were feeding their children at school--for the first time.

Most people ignore the news, these days, and watch the progressives on it. When they casually notice, they chuckle to themselves. When they realize the progressive are serious, they get angry.

That's what happened with the jury. They were people who don't generally pay attention to what the progressives are blasting on cable news and social media--you know, normal Americans! Progressives don't control what we think, they never did, and they never will.

[Union of Concerned Socks]

One of the prevailing theories bouncing around about the reaction to CRT is that when they locked down the schools and went online, parents started seeing the crap the teachers were feeding their children at school--for the first time.

This is at least as plausible as any other theory I've heard in the last year or so.

[Chumby]

Nicolae and Elena saw their power evaporate during the final speech in Bucharest. People began storming their house and the dictator fled in a helicopter. Some versions of the speech show his face revealing that he knew the jig was up.

[The Encogitationer]

What a wonderful Christmas gift the Romanian people gave to the world on Christmas Day, 1989! 🙂

[damikesc]

I've seen it and, yes, you could watch his control evaporate really, really quickly.

It's impressive that they shot him so fast that the cameraman was late to record it.

[Bill Godshall]

Some interesting news about the car murderer in Waukesha at
https://beckernews.com/police-dismiss-waukesha-suspects-radical-blm-views-downplay-racial-motive-with-excuse-for-parade-massacre-43116/?utm_source=BN&utm_medium=PTN
has been censored/suppressed by the left wing media propagandists (as well as by many conservative outlets).

"However, ‘scouring’ the social media accounts of Darrell Edward Brooks shows that he was a radicalized BLM activist, self-proclaimed sex trafficker, and black supremacist."

So might Brooks' murderous rampage in lilly white Waukesha been in response to the Rittenhouse verdict in nearby Kenosha?

Seems like left wing media propagandists have gone to great lengths since last night to create a false narrative about Brooks (e.g. he isn't a terrorist).

[Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)]

Calling this radical left dipshit a terrorist would be a mistake. What he did is the inevitable conclusion of their nihilistic philosophy, "if you are going down, take as many of the bastards with you as you can."

It is better if he is associated closely to others who support the same causes. They want a race war and they are perfectly willing to fire the first shots while gaslighting the country that they didn't start it.

[Lionel Brach]

And as long as libertarians and everybody else sit around like a bunch of ineffectual pussies and let them get away with it instead of taking the Rittenhouse approach, they'll continue getting away with it.

[esteve7]

They won't learn a god damned fucking thing. They learned nothing after Covington Catholic, after Bret Kavaneugh, after Jessie Smollete, and now after Kyle Rittenhouse.

These are religious fanatics who only care about power and their failed worldview. They don't give one damn for facts, justice, evidence, rights, or anything else.

[Utkonos]

You know who else only cared about power and a failed worldview?

[Roberta]

Ida Tarbell?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Julian the Apostate?

[Tony]

What a strangely specific set of things. Covington kid?

You lived through the last five years, and you still think some cunt child getting shit on by a pundit once is a major scandal.

It's actually unbelievable how brains can be turned into such mush. It's depressing. You're sad.

[Marshal]

You lived through the last five years, and you still think some cunt child getting shit on by a pundit once is a major scandal.

In reality the entire media was after him, doxxing him and urging universities to deny him admittance. Even after his innocence was proven a professor where he enrolled committed to monitoring him so any thought crimes could get him expelled. They tried to ruin his entire life - and still will do so if they can.

Meanwhile Tony cries when someone wears the wrong hat or big hoop earrings.

[Chumby]

They should learn: Never bring a skateboard to a gunfight

[The Encogitationer]

And never be a child rapist, domestic abuser, burglar, prowler, and stalker and take up spatio-temporal coordinates around Kyle Rittenhouse.

Sadly, none of this would fit well in a Jim Croce song 😉 :

You Don't Mess Around with Jim
https://youtu.be/hickVDiW8k0

[Jerryskids]

They should learn that when you fire into a group of mostly peaceful protesters and just happen to shoot three white scumbags, maybe it's not a coincidence that three out of three of the people at the protest were white scumbags.

[BlackCat13th]

What politicians need to learn is the third amendment.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

All the politicized sht the poly-tick-ians spewed about this case breached his third amendment rights because there was literally no legitimate case against him.

He should have never been charged at all. Now when politicians spew their slanderous uninformed ignorant trash rhetoric for their political motivations to pander to their low life constituents, it sat them at Rittenhouse's table.

We are not playthings for political bullshit. You weren't invited to rittenhouses home. You don't get to dine at his table.

If I were Rittenhouse I'd bring a lawsuit against the federal government for breach of third amendment rights, failure to recognize what they were doing, and fraud waste and abuse for pursuing bogus charges all the way to trial. I'd also sue every turd linking slime organization claiming to be a news outlet that came of the slightest bit politically biased. And I'd refuse to settle for any of them. They made this nonsense go all the way to jury verdict, I'd demand the same for them since they're dead to rights guilty and some of them should even be imprisoned.

That's what all these filthy governmental slime merchants should learn.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland]

The prog class learned that they can falsify evidens, flat out lie, loot and set cities on fire when they don't get their way, and they will face no reprecussions

[The Encogitationer]

(I don't normally copypasta, but this bears repetition as a possible way of defeating the Woke Mob that are attacking Kyle Rittenhouse and the individual right of self-defense):

Kyle delivered.

Me, I just lay in wait.

Feel free to use this on your own person or property or anywhere you have explicit permission of the owners. It's not vigilantism on your part if your aggressor has to come to you.

Maybe if everyone uses this message, the deranged Woke Mob will be so diffused and scattered and exhausted from wild goose chasing as to be ineffective.

Then the Culture War will end, not with a bang, but a mass, sobbing, thumb-sucking hoarde crouched in a fetal position under a mound of Hot Pocket boxes in the basements of mothers everywhere!

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Eh, I've taken the position for quite a while now that we shouldn't worry anymore about deep-blue shitholes suffering from increased crime and murder rates. This is the kind of society those people want, and they're welcome to suffer in it.

What's needed is to realize that the enemy is propped up primarily by the oligarchs who find their mob violence tactics useful, but that doesn't work once they start migrating outside their urban havens. Even at the height of the BLM hysteria last year, these protestors were being confronted by armed community members in exurbs and rural areas, and they never came back after that.

At heart, libshits are pussies when confronted with assertive, collective pushback. Watch how they act when they win elections versus when they lose--they go from chest-thumping entitlement to whining obsequiousness. Ceausescu ended his life pleading and crying and begging for mercy. Don't give it to them. Make it known that radical left ideology won't be welcome in your community. Get involved in local politics so these busybody parasites don't take it over by default. Run for school boards and volunteer for local government commissions. Deny these people as much oxygen as possible, and they'll eventually move on, but you have to make the environment as uncomfortable for them as possible. They need to believe that they're surrounded by "fascists" in order to get the incentive to move on.

The cost of freedom is eternal vigilance.

[Tony]

"Watch how they act when they win elections versus when they lose"

Do you mean when they violently storm the US capitol building during certification, harass election workers for months on end, and spread democracy-destabilizing lies all over the internet going on a year straight?

Oh no, that's your team. The good guys.

Have you even left your house in the last two years? You have an oddly Mad Max-like view of what's going on in the country. It's almost like you watch FOX News and assume they're telling you the truth.

Of course that would be sad and pathetic.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Popping back in here to note that Tony hates it when his side is resisted, as evidenced by this comment.

[Tony]

But it is vigilantism. You're advocating murder.

You people have gone completely insane.

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