Our Looming Trillion Dollar Doom

Plus: the unintended consequences of mandating COVID vaccines for students

1x 1.1x 1.25x 1.5x 2x 3x

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Our Looming Trillion Dollar Doom

This week on The Reason Roundtable, Matt Welch, Katherine Mangu-Ward, Peter Suderman, and Nick Gillespie tackle the pending $3.5 trillion spending bill and the also-pending vaccine mandates for students under 12.

Discussed in the show:

1:23: The infrastructure bill that was supposed to be finalized last week (and why no one is talking about it).

22:54: Weekly Listener Question: I get that trains aren't the most efficient way of getting around and require massive tax hikes, eminent domain, etc., but I still want them. How do I reconcile that with being a libertarian? Why can't we get them in places besides New York City?

31:48: Gavin Newsom plans to add the coronavirus vaccine to the list of mandated vaccines for public schools—as soon as it's approved, that is.

49:56: Media recommendations for the week.

This week's links:

• "What Americans Think About The Fight Over The Debt Ceiling," by Geoffrey Skelley and Mackenzie Wilkes
• "Joe Manchin Is Forcing Congress To Think About the Deficit. Good," by Eric Boehm
• "Joe Manchin Just Cooked the Planet," by Jeff Goodell
• "Vaccine Mandates Coming for K-12 Students," by Matt Welch
• "Public Health Officials Blew Up Their Credibility, and We're Paying the Price," by J.D. Tuccille

Send your questions to [e-mail]. Be sure to include your social media handle and the correct pronunciation of your name.

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Audio production by Ian Keyser
Assistant production by Regan Taylor
Music: "Angeline," by The Brothers Steve

What are we consuming this week?

Peter Suderman

• The Guilty, on Netflix

Nick Gillespie

• Seinfeld, on Netflix

Katherine Mangu-Ward

• Convenience Store Woman, by Sakaya Murata

Matt Welch

• Trading Spaces

---

Comments

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

So I guess after this morning's (ongoing) Facebook drama, Zuckerberg might push harder for those new internet regulations.

[Weigel's Cock Ring]

Faceberg really got his face owned off!

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[Arlene M. Vaughan]

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[atisang]

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[Patriotic Guy]

He’s angling to have FB regulated as a utility. Utilities are protected, and don’t get turned into MySpace. I’ve been saying this for years.

[rreally]

Protected how?

Utilities get waived out of harmful government regulations that might fall on their competition, but that's not the same thing as protected - as something like too big to fail.

What protects your local asshole ISP is the fact that it owns the wires and needing such wires is a huge barrier to entry for a competitor. That's the meaningful measure of its protection.

I can't think of anything like that (the government could provide) that could similarly protect Facebook. No users, no Facebook, in any event.

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[Vulgar Madman]

22:54 Build your own damn railroad.

[Chumby]

Anyone wanting to build their own railroad must have a loco motive.

[Vulgar Madman]

You,,, get a non existent prize.

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[atisang]

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[Bubba Jones]

"How do I reconcile that with being a libertarian?"

You recognize that people frequently want stuff that is inconsistent with their claimed ideologies.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I get that trains aren't the most efficient way of getting around and require massive tax hikes, eminent domain, etc., but I still want them. How do I reconcile that with being a libertarian? Why can't we get them in places besides New York City?

Wait until you're older than a college student, understand something about geography and the complexities that come with a nation that's as geographically diverse as ours, and then compare most of the rest of the country with the Eastern Seaboard, then you'll have your answer.

Shorter: Grow up, learn something.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland]

1. Private companies built the NY subway system, NY then confiscated it.
So no the gov can't build trains

[Lawn Guy]

I'm not sure that's the case for all situations, but I see your point.
https://www.absnowremovalandlawncare.com/bobcat-services.html

[Don't look at me!]

: I get that trains aren't the most efficient way of getting around and require massive tax hikes, eminent domain, etc., but I still want them.
Let’s all go back to 1800’s technology.

[Utkonos]

How else is Atlas gonna Shrug? (GO REARDON STEEL!!)

[Roberta]

There are profitable passenger railroads being built now all over the country — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI3rloH-PZA

It's all a matter of tailoring the service to the market. The technology is there, it's just a matter of figuring out the routes people want to ride on. These are short lines for fast trips.

[atisang]

good year
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[Ken Shultz]

This is Biden from a few hours ago:

Reporter: "I just want to be very clear. Can you guarantee that the U.S. will not reach the debt ceiling, that that will not happen?"

Joe Biden: "No, I can't".

----Bloomberg Politics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eZ9iOqWBFo

The "go hard" date is October 18 according to Treasury Secretary Yellen, and that means Biden and the Democrats have until October 18th to pass the $3.5 trillion budget reconciliation bill--so long as the Republicans refuse to help the Democrats raise the debt ceiling. And the Republicans unanimously refused to raise the debt ceiling just four days ago.

Biden blamed McConnell in that video, for not raising the debt ceiling, but that's giving McConnell more credit than he deserves. The fact is that the Democrats control the House. The Democrats control the Senate, and the Democrats control the White House. The Democrats can raise the debt ceiling by a simple majority vote through the budget reconciliation process--without a single Republican vote. Failing to do something they can do without any help from the Republicans is not the Republican's' fault.

The reason Biden can't guarantee that the government won't default on its debt is that progressives in the Democratic party won't vote to raise the debt ceiling unless the moderate Democrats sign onto their $3.5 trillion budget reconciliation bill with all its attendant Green New Deal spending and expansion of socialist entitlement programs. Schumer has said that the process of doing that takes longer than people understand, but the fact remains that the Democrats could do it without the Republicans if they wanted--but the progressives won't let them.

[Ken Shultz]

P.S. There was a typo.

Can you guarantee that the U.S. will not [b]reach the debt ceiling, that that will not happen?”

Joe Biden: “No, I can’t”.

—-Bloomberg Politics

Oh, and here are the Republicans voting against raising the debt ceiling just a few days ago.

https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=117&session=1&vote=00385

If they were registered Libertarians, would they be any more unanimous?

(Schumer voted with the Nays for procedural reasons).

[atisang]

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[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

IT'S A STUNT! GOP INTRANSIGENCE! PARTISANSHIP! REFUSAL TO COMPROMISE!

Oh wait, those were the arguments when the Republicans had some political power.

So what are the arguments now?

[Don't look at me!]

SleepyJoe has poor leadership qualities?

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Let's go Brandon er... Fuck Joe Biden!

[Ken Shultz]

"So what are the arguments now?"

They're the same. Biden is saying it's all McConnell's fault. You can see him say it in the video from a few hours ago I linked. Biden would blame Trump or the insurrectionists if he could. They're still using the same arguments about it being the Republicans' fault. It's just that now the arguments have no real basis in reality. That's the problem with being in a one party government. I think it's fairly common in history.

There's no one else to blame when things go wrong when you're an absolute ruler. Emperor Xi likes to have corruption trials every once in a while, presumably for that reason. Emperor Xi may be the only person in the country with real political power, but when something bad happens, it wasn't his fault!

Stalin did the same thing with his show trials. In ancient Rome, the emperors used to scapegoat the Christians. In eastern Europe, the Tsars used to scapegoat the Jews. The Holy Roman Emperor blamed the Protestants. The Taliban will no doubt blame the United States for their problems, just like Saddam Hussein did.

You know who's to blame for Gavin Newsom's vaccine mandates and lockdowns? I'll give you a hint: Newsom isn't responsible for the decisions he makes. It isn't Newsom's fault according to Newsom. He blames it on the pandemic. (Incidentally, I blame the people who failed to recall him for their stupid decision, too.)

When bad things happen under a one-party government, someone needs to take the blame--and it won't be Biden's progressives. It might become the moderate Democrats at some point, but for now, the Republicans will have to do. If they could, they might blame Russian interference or global warming.

[Lord of Strazele]

"You know who’s to blame for Gavin Newsom’s vaccine mandates and lockdowns?'

That perspective, your opinion, got its ass kicked in the election. People support vaccines and the efforts to save lives.

[Vulgar Madman]

They support them so much you have to bribe, cajole or threaten them to comply. And even that didn’t work, you nazi dog.

[Don't look at me!]

No, Californians just love their D leaders as they run off the cliff like the lemmings they are .

[Ken Shultz]

That perspective, your opinion, got its ass kicked in the election. People support vaccines and the efforts to save lives.

The truth isn't a popularity contest, and the truth is that Gavin Newsom's decisions weren't made by a virus. Gavin Newsom is responsible for the choices he made, and if he doesn't want to take responsibility for them, he has no business being the governor of anything. Because shepherds are popular with sheep doesn't mean they aren't being led to the slaughterhouse.

[Joe Friday]

Ken, not raising the debt ceiling yet is the GOP's fault.
It's a statement of fact.

[creech]

The argument now is: "We (DNC) control the legacy media."

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

"The DNC is an arm of the media" -- Michael Malice

[Kungpowderfinger]

It’s certainly a distinction that bears considering, that of who controls who.

All the democrats in congress could drop dead tomorrow, and they probably wouldn’t even cancel the Seahawks/Rams game this week.

But shut down Facebook for a week and see what the chimps do.

[atisang]

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[Kungpowderfinger]

The fact is that the Democrats control the House. The Democrats control the Senate, and the Democrats control the White House. The Democrats can raise the debt ceiling by a simple majority vote through the budget reconciliation process–without a single Republican vote.

So in congress, the Republicans are in their comfortable minority role, and the fucking democrats are at each other’s throats.

Sounds like a best case scenario, frankly.

[Ken Shultz]

I'm more focused on the outcome. The $3.5 trillion budget reconciliation bill needs to fail. If Biden and the progressives make it so the only way the government avoids default is for the Senate to pass the $3.5 trillion budget reconciliation bill, that might be enough to make Manchin change his mind. I hope it doesn't come to that.

I don't want to see the $3.5 trillion budget reconciliation bill fail because I want the Democrats at each other's throat; I want to see the Democrats at each other's throats because I want the $3.5 trilling budget reconciliation bill to die. It's the most socialist most of us have seen in our lifetimes. It will start the earnest transformation of this country into a European style socialist democracy.

[Lord of Strazele]

The problem isn't Democrats refusing to raise the limit unless and until the 3.5 trill bill is passed. You're making that up. Where'd you even get that? The issue is it'll take perhaps hundreds of votes to raise the limit through reconciliation and the Senators don't want to sit through all that bullshit when a simple majority vote would get it done. Republicans are blocking the simple majority vote and talking out of both sides of their mouths.

This is also Republican debt. Republicans are refusing to own up to their spending under Trump. But you mfers are sabotagors. And you're almost proud it. Some of you are. Others maybe not so sure? Maybe one day you guys will succeed and sink us all? You damn near did it with that last clown you elected.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Imagine if Democrats had all FOUR branches of government!

[Titus PUllo]

I seem to recall massive deficits during Obama..when the rent an economists from Harvard pushed their usual bs keynsian deficit spending plans. To be honest..both parties have bought into this crap since Ike.

But just print baby print..the Fed is going to monetize as much debt as needed to buy votes...and then inflation will be blamed on "predators"..ha ha

Quickest way to end the Federal monopoly is to destroy the currency...let's do it

[Ken Shultz]

"Republicans are refusing to own up to their spending under Trump."

The Republicans voted unanimously against the Democrats' $1.9 trillion pandemic bill in March.

The Republicans voted unanimously a few days ago not to raise the debt ceiling to try and make it hard for the Democrats to pass another $3.5 trillion budget reconciliation bill--over the unanimous objections of Republicans.

$1.9 trillion + $3.5 trillion = $5.4 trillion the Republicans have opposed spending unanimously.

Why should the Republicans take responsibility for what they passed under Trump when you won't give them credit for what they unanimously opposed spending under Biden?

Could they be any more unanimous in their refusal to spend that money?

[atisang]

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[Earnesto Concernada]

It’s treasonous, the way republicans make it inconvenient for the democrats to spend the money necessary to fix this country.

[Kungpowderfinger]

I don’t want to see the $3.5 trillion budget reconciliation bill fail because I want the Democrats at each other’s throat; I want to see the Democrats at each other’s throats because I want the $3.5 trilling budget reconciliation bill to die

Good point, well said.

[Joe Friday]

Thanks for the exegisis Mitch.

[Utkonos]

Well, we are after all inching closer and closer to that very special type of government which was famous for making trains run on time….

[Gaear Grimsrud]

All Facebook sites mysteriously crashed. The comments over at Zhedge are comedy gold.

[Utkonos]

Mine finally is working again

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

My understanding is a lot of stuff is down globally, but FB (like all women and minorities) was hardest hit.

[Don't look at me!]

The comments over at Zhedge are comedy gold.
That’s no shit.

[Titus PUllo]

The best thing about this is the GOP being so idiotic..Karl Rove is running around saying people who make under 400K a year and smoke will pay more..no idiot..its the inflation and lower economic growth..the inflation tax on the poor and middle class and govt spending money on unproductive sectors...but then they would have to admit you can't have your spending and tax cuts too..

[Don't look at me!]

SleepyJoe wants to piss away trillions of your dollars and the GOP is being idiotic?

[JesseAz]

BOTH SIDES!!!

[Titus PUllo]

If it breaks the insane economic system we have had since 1971....the GOP doesn't have the balls to get it done...even Reagan didn't kill the beast (all he had to do was tell Volker to tie the dollar to gold) and shut down a bunch of 1960 agencies and not give the pentagon a blank check..but that time is 40 years gone...there is only way forward to print so much money the reserve currency is broken..that is the only way to end the welfare/warfare state once and for all

[jamalhlaed]

22:54 Build your own damn railroad.

[Longtobefree]

"Plus: the unintended consequences of mandating COVID vaccines for students"

None of the consequences of fascism are unintended.
We know EXACTLY what is coming.
For this performance, the role of the Jews will be played by a combination of "businessmen", Christians, and white guys; the role of the Soviet Union will be played by Communist China.

[jhonee]

Seriously I don’t know why more people haven’t tried this, I work two shifts, 2 hours in the day and 2 in the evening…FLT And i get surly a check of $12600 what’s awesome is I m working from home so I get more time with my kids.Try it, you won’t regret it!………https://bit.ly/3Bf4vNG

[Will Nonya]

An editor who doesn't know who Billy Ray Valentine is...

[atisang]

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[Liberty Lover]

Our Looming Trillion Dollar Doom
Ah! Reason writers, remember you supported the people bringing us this doom. Regret it yet? Nah, you will never admit it.

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