Do Voter ID Laws Undermine the Democratic Process or Ensure Trustworthy Elections?

NYU's Eliza Sweren-Becker debates Hans von Spakovsky of The Heritage Foundation

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Do Voter ID Laws Undermine the Democratic Process or Ensure Trustworthy Elections?

Do voter identification laws ensure secure and trustworthy elections, or are they a way for political parties to manipulate the democratic process in their favor? 

At a September 8 debate in New York City hosted by the Soho Forum, Eliza Sweren-Becker from New York University's Brennan Center for Justice argued that state legislators are using arbitrary rules to suppress the voting rights of vulnerable citizens.

The Heritage Foundation's Hans von Spakovsky countered that these rules are necessary to guarantee that every vote cast is valid, noting that in states where voter ID laws already exist, registration rates have risen.

This was an Oxford-style debate, in which the audience voted before and after the event to see which side swayed more people. It was moderated by Soho Forum Director Gene Epstein.

Narrated by Nick Gillespie. Audio editing by John Osterhoudt. Live production by The Sheen Center.

Photo: Anthony Behar/Sipa USA/Newscom

Comments

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

Me, I'd let anybody and everybody vote, including tourists, using indelible ink to prevent multiple votes, and only allowing those people who could physically manage the vote by themselves, so parents don't get to "help" their 6 month old infants vote.

But as things are, you need an ID to buy booze, to drive on public roads, to do all sorts of things -- why not voting too? I am more offended by letting 16-year olds vote than requiring IDs.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

I think you should just provide a tax return. If you paid taxes the prior year, you get to vote. I am most offended by the deadbeat vote.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

Almost the same here. I'd add a third chamber to Congress, where you vote how much tax you paid -- income most notably, but there are federal taxes on fuel, telephones, imports, and everything else they could think of.

Also ditto for state and local government. Put your property and sales taxes to good use.

Being a third branch would be most noticeable in having to approve bills. The bills they introduce wouldn't be any different.

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[raspberrydinners]

Ahh yes, rule by the landed gentry. That sure makes sense. /s

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

As opposed to rule by the deadbeats. Or 16 year olds.

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[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Gentry, no. The bear minimum of being a responsible adult, yes. If you can't take care of your own self, then you don't get to vote to steal my money.

[DesigNate]

I’ve paid income tax since I was 18 years old. Businesses are literally throwing everything they can to hire people. It’s not that hard to earn income and “pay your fair share”.

*Note, income taxes are inherently immoral and should be abolished.

[mpercy]

You need an ID to prove your vaccine card is yours, too, so you can go to places requiring proof of vaccination.

Wonder how this will work if polling places were to require proof of vaccination? Will progressive heads explode in cognitive dissonance?

[atisang]

yes
https://atisang.com/blog/Persian-Newsletter/P331-Corinthian-and-quartz-artificial-stones.html
https://atisang.com/blog/Persian-Newsletter/P328-Key-parameters-influencing-the-pricing-of-travertines.html

[Chumby]

Fuck Joe Biden

[Don't look at me!]

FUCK JOE BIDEN

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

No, this debate, just like science, has been settled.

[atisang]

ok
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https://atisang.com/%D8%B3%D9%86%DA%AF-%D9%86%D9%85%D8%A7-48801/

[CE]

Well, if some backward southern state passes a voter ID law, at least be sure to move any high profile events from a majority minority city in that state to a vanilla white city in a liberal state with the same laws. That'll show 'em.

[Ben of Houston]

You mean like Illinois, which has required voter ID for decades? Or are you referring to France? Northern Ireland? Germany?

Well over half the country has voter ID laws, and close to the majority of our international allies do as well. This is a fact that's readily ignored in this debate.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

Expecting people to show ID in order to vote is literally Jim Crow 2.0.

#OurElectionsAreAlreadySecure
#(ExceptThatOneThatGotHackedByRussia)

[Don't look at me!]

No widespread corruption.

[atisang]

good
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https://atisang.com/blog/Persian-Newsletter/P315-selction-stone-step.html

[mpercy]

"Our election was hijacked. There is no question. Congress has a duty to #ProtectOurDemocracy & #FollowTheFacts."

Nancy Pelosi

https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/06/politics/electoral-college-vote-count-objections/index.html

1:09 P.M. ET: Rep. Jim McGovern of Massachusetts rose to object to the certificate from Alabama.

“The electors were not lawfully certified, especially given the confirmed and illegal activities engaged by the government of Russia,” McGovern said.

Biden denied McGovern on the grounds that he didn’t have a senator’s signature on his written objection.

1:14 P.M.: Rep. Jamie Raskin of Maryland rose to object to 10 of Florida’s 29 electoral votes.

“They violated Florida’s prohibition against dual office holders,” Raskin said.

Again, despite the fact that Raskin pointed out that he had his objection in writing, he failed to get a senator’s signature.

1:15 P.M.: No sooner had the Florida question been settled than its neighbor to the north was the subject of another objection, when Washington’s Rep. Pramila Jayapal objected to Georgia’s vote certificate.

“It is over,” Biden told the congresswoman.

1:21 P.M.: Rep. Barbara Lee of California brought up voting machines and Russian hacking when she objected following the counting of Michigan’s votes.

“People are horrified by the overwhelming evidence of Russian interference in our election,” Lee said.

Once again, her objection was denied for the lack of a senator’s signature. They also turned off her microphone.

1:23 P.M.: After New York’s tally was read, Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas stood up to object.

“I object on the massive voter suppression that included –” Jackson Lee began.

“The debate is not in order,” Biden interrupted. Again, the congresswoman lacked a senator’s signature.

1:28 P.M.: Arizona’s Rep. Raul Grijalva rose to object after North Carolina’s tally. He tried to object on violations of the Voting Rights Act, but Biden shut him down.

As you may have guessed, he didn’t have the signature of a senator.

Once he gave up, Jackson Lee tagged him out and tried to object to the votes herself. They cut off her microphone, too.

“There is no debate. There is no debate. There is no debate,” a visibly agitated Biden said as he gaveled.

1:31 PM: Jackson Lee made another appearance minutes later after South Carolina’s certification.

“There is no debate in the joint session,” Biden said, shutting her down once more.

1:36 PM: Biden must have thought, after five minutes of peace and getting through the state of West Virginia, that the House members might observe the rules. Lee wasn’t even able to make it through her objection before Biden said, “There is no debate.”

They cut off her microphone again.

1:37 PM: Wisconsin’s votes had been read. With just Wyoming to go, the finish line was in reach.

Jackson Lee once again tried to make an objection on the grounds of Russian interference in the election.

1:38 PM: The final state’s votes had been read. Then entered California Rep. Maxine Waters.

Taking a play from her own book – she objected to the certification of George W. Bush’s 2000 election – Waters admitted that she didn’t have a senator’s signature on her objection.

“I wish to ask: Is there one United States senator who will join me in this letter of objection?” Waters asked. Through House Speaker Paul Ryan’s chuckle and boos from the rest of the chamber, it was clear that there was not.

1:40 PM: The states were counted, but three protestors started yelling from the visitors’ gallery of the chamber. At least one of them was reciting the Constitution as he was taken away by security. [INSURRECTION!!!!!]

Biden did not look thrilled.

But at the end of the day, despite the objections, Trump’s election was certified by Congress.
“The objection cannot be received,” Biden said.

[atisang]

oh sheet
https://atisang.com/%D8%B3%D9%86%DA%AF-%D9%85%D8%B1%D9%85%D8%B1%DB%8C%D8%AA/
https://atisang.com/crystal

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Is this expected to prevent infections or hospitalizations?
Among King County residents ages 12 and up, 85% have received at least one vaccine dose, according to the public health department, leaving around 300,000 unvaccinated King County residents. Yet infection and hospitalization rates remain at dangerous levels, officials have noted.

That's with 85% of the population at least partially vaccinated. 85%. Eighty five percent. Eight... five...

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

So you're fine with genociding 15 people out of every 100? What a monster!

[mpercy]

I get he sarcasm, but so many people think this is really how it will work. Of course, if every single one of that 15% became infected, 99+% of them would come out the other side of their COVID infection just fine. A very small fraction of one percent of people under the age of 50 (like 0.05%) will die; over age of 85, maybe 15% dies. BUT THE VAST VAST VAST MAJORITY will survive COVID just fine, thank you.

Biden, et al., and the media fight to cause panic as if exposure to COVID is a 10)% death sentence. It's not. It's maybe 6x-10x "worse" than common flu, and for the very young may in fact be statistically less dangerous than the flu. The panic works for them, so they keep stoking it.

[mad.casual]

Herd Immunity: The act of innoculating a sufficient portion of the population to produce a desired effect.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

The real desired effect is for those in power to stay in power. Biden/Harris polls are dropping so we have not achieved herd immunity.

[soldiermedic76]

Actually, and I am sure you are aware of this, herd immunity actually involves three points be achieved:
1) mass vaccinations
2) controlling all disease vectors including alternative animal hosts
3) a closed population/herd
The first rule of animal health in veterinary medicine and animal science is that a vaccine cannot make up for poor management.

[mpercy]

Fauci told the New York Times that new science had changed his thinking on the herd immunity threshold -- but he also admitted that his statements were influenced in part by "his gut feeling that the country is finally ready to hear what he really thinks."

Specifically, the fraction of people who would need immunity to SARS-CoV-2 (either through vaccination or recovery from prior infection) to extinguish the spread of the virus was initially estimated to be 60% to 70%. In recent weeks, Fauci had raised the percentage: from 70% to 75%, and then to 75%, 80%, and 85%.

Allow me to quote verbatim from the article, titled "How Much Herd Immunity Is Enough?":

"When polls said only about half of all Americans would take a vaccine, I was saying herd immunity would take 70 to 75 percent," Fauci said. "Then, when newer surveys said 60 percent or more would take it, I thought, 'I can nudge this up a bit,' so I went to 80, 85."

Why should we take anything this man says seriously? His "science" is poll-driven?!

[ElvisIsReal]

The King County stats have been updated to include 9/10. In the 30 days prior, the vaxxed are:

31% of cases (up from 30% last report)
17% of hospitalizations (up from 13%)
25% of deaths (down from 30%)

https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/vaccination-outcomes.aspx

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

It's not a pandemic, it's A TWINDEMIC!

As experts warn of brutal flu ‘twindemic,’ here are 8 things to know about getting your flu shot

Sure, buzzfeed, sure.

[Don't look at me!]

It sounds “sciencey” .

[soldiermedic76]

So we can expect mandates for the flu vaccine too? I called it.

[buckleup]

Whatever the damn democrats will still find a way to stuff the ballots with fake votes. There's no real way to audit anything and they know it. Talking about voter ID deflects from the real issue.

We'll see next year. If GOP doesn't take back Congress we'll know for sure it's all corrupt.

[raspberrydinners]

Just because your favorite fascists don't have any ideas that people want isn't a sign it's a corrupt. It's a sign your party sucks a fat one.

Cry more snowflake.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

History shows clearly that the President's party almost always loses seats in the mid-term elections.

Bzzzzzzt!

[atisang]

ok
https://atisang.com/blog/Persian-Newsletter/P312-Travertine.htmlhttps://atisang.com/blog/Persian-Newsletter/P308-Where-to-buy-slab-stone.html

[JesseAz]

If your argument rests on the belief minorities are too stupid to follow, you've lost the argument and are pretty much racist.

[Kungpowderfinger]

The Democrats aren’t concerned with being accused of racism, they’re concerned with “loosing” elections.

Voter ID would eliminate a a huge opportunity for fraud, so of course the Democrats violently oppose it. It’s who they are.

Now that the tech monopolies have agreed to silence their opposition, open corruption in elections is right around the corner in this country, if not already here. And all that comes with it down the road, like cops taking bribes in broad daylight. Look at other uni-party countries for examples.

[Ra's al Gore]

Rolling Stone has pulled the original link:

Was the 2004 Election Stolen?
https://slashdot.org/story/06/09/17/1845248/was-the-2004-election-stolen?sbsrc=thisday

jZnat writes,
"In June Rolling Stone ran an article by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. delving into the statistical improbability that Bush won the 2004 election based on massive amounts of evidence that support a Republican-sponsored election fraud across the country, particularly in Ohio. The GOP used a number of tactics in its fraudulent campaign including ballot-stuffing, denying newly registered voters (particularly in urban and minority precincts) their voting privileges via illegal mailings known as caging lists, inane voter registration requirements, preventing thousands of voters from receiving provisional ballots, under-providing Democrat-majority precincts with voting machines thus creating enormous queues of voters, faulty machines (particularly from Diebold) that skewed results in the GOP's favor, mostly unnoticed ballot-stuffing and fraud in rural areas, and a fixed recount that was paid for by the Green and Libertarian parties that essentially supported the initial fraudulent numbers."

From the article:

"'Ohio was as dirty an election as America has ever seen,' Lou Harris, the father of modern political polling, told me."

[Ra's al Gore]

The comments from the libs to the article are pure gold.

[atisang]

comment
https://atisang.com/building-stone/
https://atisang.com/blog/Persian-Newsletter/P302-attractive-suggestions-for-choosing-a-cabinet-stone.html

[Rossami]

It continues to frustrate me that these articles fail to report the results of the debate. As an Oxford-style debate, the audience is polled before and after the debate. The winner is the person who converted the most votes. Here's how it actually turned out.

Resolution: Legislators in multiple states are actively working to make it harder for Americans to vote.

Yes went from 31% to 44% - a gain of 13 percentage points.
No had a gain of 18 percentage points. von Spakovsky won the debate.

[Brandybuck]

At it's essence, there's nothing wrong with requring proof of voting rights at the ballot box. That's what the Voter ID advocates tell you. And they're right so far as that goes.

The problem is that the implementation of Voter ID laws leaves a Mack Truck sized whole for election officials to deny voting rights to otherwise eligible voters. And that's what *some* key Voter ID advocates know but aren't telling you.

By limiting what exact kind of identification is required to vote, officials can selectively deny voting to various group of CITIZENS. Because not every can drive. Because not everyone has a job. Because not everyone receives an electric bill. Because not everyone has readily available access to the demanded identification. Short of a PAPERS PLEASE state, there's no way to ensure that all citizens have the demanded identification.

A few years back I was an "illegal" for a couple of months because my drivers license expired (I never got a renewal notice and just forget). I started a new job and that's how I figured it out, I couldn't submit an INS form even though I was born legally within the confines of the fifty states. My passport had expired too, and it was going through that very long process of getting back to me.

AT NO TIME WAS I NOT A CITIZEN WITHOUT MY RIGHT TO VOTE IN A LOCAL, STATE, OR FEDERAL ELECTION!

Okay, that's just one case. Lots of other cases. It's not a huge group of people, probably not enough to ever decide the outcome of an election. But these people have the right under the Constitution to vote. No poll taxes. No poll tests. THey have that right even though they don't have a current drivers license or passport or "two from column B" documents for INS. Hell, they might not even be employed! There is nothing in the Constitution saying a voter must be employed .

So... the various Voter ID laws and proposals, all of them that I have seen, are bad for that reason. Because the specify particular forms of government documents that aren't universally available upon demand to 100% of the citizenry.

But there is a compromise. Voter Registration Cards. Bring your voter registration card to the voting booth. Boom. Done. One has to register to vote, and that registration is checked by an official for validity. So there's the ID that's required. Poll worker checks off the card number in the list and everything is hunky dory. Any dispute still get a provisional ballot just like today.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

ID checks of all kinds are the same, right? Why no protest at the anti-booze effect disproportionately affecting minorities?

[Brandybuck]

IDs for buying alcohol is different because the various ABCs around the nation allow various forms of identification. You don't need official government ID cards such as a drivers license. That's because it's perfectly legal for non-citizens and even [gasp] non-residents to buy alcohol. A German tourist can legally buy beer at a liquor store. Really.

The identification is not necessary, it's the proof of age. And such proofs can range from drivers licenses, to notarized copies of birth certificates. I have even seen baptismal certificates used. These were legit from older men, who happened to have baptismal certificates but no government form of PAPERS PLEASE. Heck, I've even accepted student ID cards.

[soldiermedic76]

Now do buying a gun? 2A is plainly written, more so than voting rights amendment.

[Roberta]

Serious observers know it's not at the actual voting where the major fraud potential exists, it's at the registration. Issuing registration cards helps against the former, but that's not where the real problem lies. It's in the registration, which is where the card would be issued, that presents the problems and where most fraud occurs. Not unregistered people voting, but ineligible people registered, and people registered under more than one identity or in more than one place. And then don't get me started on the inadvertent mistakes and lack of work by the election authorities.

[mpercy]

Mail-in voting is ripe for abuse, too. And in at least one essentially untraceable, unprovable way, where postal employees and other mail handlers might simply "disappear" ballots. E.g., a postal employee running a route in a heavy Republican area, could simply "lose" all the ballots he collects along his route. Those ballots would never be counted or recounted, etc. so they could not hurt his favored candidates. He might accidentally lose a few Democrat ballots, but figures the math works in his favor.

[atisang]

good
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[mpercy]

As far as I know, every state with a voter ID requirement provides for a free ID not connected to driving, etc. E.g. for Georgia

What IDs are acceptable?

Any valid state or federal government issued photo ID, including a free ID Card issued by your county registrar's office or the Georgia Department of Driver Services (DDS)
A Georgia Driver's License, even if expired
Valid employee photo ID from any branch, department, agency, or entity of the U.S. Government, Georgia, or any county, municipality, board, authority or other entity of this state
Valid U.S. passport ID
Valid U.S. military photo ID
Valid tribal photo ID

Bring one of these six forms of identification to vote.

Georgia's Voter Identification Card

If you do not have one of the six acceptable forms of photo ID, the State of Georgia offers a free ID Card. An ID card can be issued at any county registrar's office or Department of Driver Services Office free of charge.

[raspberrydinners]

Find me some actual fraud where this is even necessary then we can talk.

Remember "the Kraken"? It's nothing but accusations with ZERO evidence. Hell, the only evidence I've seen of fraud in 2020 was trumpers voting for their dead mom or something.

You want higher voter turnout? Just make it mandatory. Doesn't matter if they vote in Pink Panther- at least then we'd have the turnout we would want yes?

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

Where did the meme of dead Chicago voters come from? Why do so many people, even Democrats, think JFK beat Nixon in 1960 only because of voter fraud? Why did RFK think the GOP committed voter fraud in 2004?

Fraud may or may not be a big problem, but to deny it even exists shows you as an ostrich.

[soldiermedic76]

All we need to look at is the numerous voter scandals among the immigrant community in the Gilded Age. The most infamous was Tammany hall, but it was far from the only one. Tammany Hall was blatant about it, besides buying votes they would have their followers grow full beards, vote, go around the corner to a barber shop, shave and then go back and vote again.

[Ben of Houston]

And let's not forget the New Jersey primary last year that had so many people being told they had already voted that they redid the whole primary election. Yes, we had an entire election invalidated last year due to voter fraud, but voter fraud supposedly doesn't exist.

Whether ID would have stopped that particular scheme (which most likely relied on mass ballot theft from the post office or mailboxes) is immaterial, as every other possible method of security relies on voter ID as a base. Without ID, nothing is possible.

[Jerryskids]

Do Voter ID Laws Undermine the Democratic Process or Ensure Trustworthy Elections?

Yes and no. Voter ID laws ensure trustworthy elections the same way speeding laws ensure that nobody speeds. They're a necessary but nowhere near sufficient way to address potential vote fraud. Unfortunately, whatever laws and methods you use to try and prevent vote fraud are going to catch some innocent people and deny some otherwise eligible voter their right to vote.

But the main thing here is that undermining the democratic process is not necessarily a bad thing. We are not a democracy and there's a good goddamn reason we're not a democracy and why this worship of "our sacred democratic principles", as too many shitweasel politicians would say, is so scary and disheartening - a tyranny of the majority is the worst sort of tyranny. If you've got a tyranny of a minority, you can beat them by sheer numbers, how the hell you gonna beat a tyranny of "most people"?

I've been seeing some ad lately about celebrating the Constitution that claims the three most glorious words from that document are the first three words, " We the People" and doesn't that just make you feel proud to be an American? Well, actually no, fuckface. As I've said many times, the Declaration made us a free country, the Constitution created that necessary evil known as government. As such, there's no need to honor and celebrate the Constitution other than insofar as it's a less evil necessity than most others. It's like getting kicked in the nuts when most everybody else is getting a limb chopped off, you can be grateful you only got kicked in the nuts instead of having a limb chopped off but that doesn't mean getting kicked in the nuts was a wonderful experience.

And besides which, "we the people" was one of those noble lies - "we the people" didn't pass the Constitution, we didn't even get to vote on it. The Constitution was ratified by the States in constitutional conventions, one form of government voting on adopting another form of government. Now that wasn't very damn democratic, was it? No, but perhaps back in the day with a much smaller population and a much smaller government, there was an assumption that the people you selected as your representatives were more likely to be a little smarter and a little less self-interested than the average voter and could be trusted more often than not to make the right choices. Or at least more often than the average voter.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

No. There were actual popular elections for approval, not legislative votes.

It was only white male property owners, but it was still people, not legislatures.

IIRC.

[soldiermedic76]

During the Gilded age a transformation began to replace the word republic with democracy. Until, and through the Civil War, the majority of people referred to the USA as a republic. Or at worse a democratic republic. Starting in the Gilded age politicians and journalist began replacing the word republic with democracy, until this became the dominant use by the early 20th century. Today far more people, when polled, describe the US as a democracy than a republic or a democratic republic or the more correct constitutional republic. I hypothesize that as democracy replaced republic in the common language, people have shifted towards away from state self determination towards national self determination. As evidence I offer protests against the electoral college. Protests against state laws by out of state residents, e.g. Texas abortion laws, Florida and Texas mask mandates laws, etc. Pushes away from states as the testing beds of democracy, towards implementing new programs at the federal level. I am sure I could come with more.

[mpercy]

I want every single person who is eligible to vote be able to do so if they choose to do so.

At the same time, I want to be able to verify that each ballot cast is cast by an eligible voter, who is voting their own ballot, in the district in which they legally reside as citizens, and that they are voting once and only once.

I want the counting methods to be repeatable and auditible, to help ensure that only valid ballots cast by actual eligible voters are counted.

I want the people doing the counting (or running the counting machines) to be honest and impartial, or since maybe there can be no such thing as an impartial election official, at least have equal number of partisans working each step (sort of like solving the problem by "one of you gets to cut the cake, the other gets first pick", which tends to result in *precisely* even slices).

When the election boards have lost the trust of the people, they should be bending over backward to try to make sure that everything is above board, or at least try to remove the optics of potential abuse. Instead we get subjected to things like "human error" in Michigan, like the clown show that was the NY22 debacle this past year.

[esteve7]

Thinking you don't need ID to vote is dumb. Even if you give people IDs for free the left is still against it. They are only against it because they know it helps them. There is no rational case for requiring ID for everything else we need it for (including their vaccine mandates), and *not* voting.

When I worked as a poll worker, most people *wanted* to show their ID and were surprised when they didn't have to show it.

My friend's mom was on the voter rolls three times under three different names, so with no ID she could have voted as all of them if they wanted to.

-----

I was a bank teller for 4 years. Not once in those 4 years did I have someone ever try to take money out of an account that wasn't theirs. So by the left's logic, I shouldn't have asked for ID because well it just never happens, right?

[mpercy]

I had to show ID to get my vaccination. Vaccinations are racist!

[Brian]

And, if you think voter ID laws enhance election integrity, are you brave enough to say so in public with the threat of a bizarre anti-racist mob lynching you?

[DarrenM]

The general population does not need to be provided with any evidence that elections are trustworthy. It should be enough that the government tells us that they are. This is just as true in the United States as it is in bastions of democracy like North Korea, Russia, and China.

[atisang]

https://atisang.com/%D8%B3%D9%86%DA%AF-%D9%85%D8%B1%D9%85%D8%B1%DB%8C%D8%AA/
https://atisang.com/crystal

[soldiermedic76]

The only argument I need is that I am required a photo ID to practice my 2A rights. If I need a photo ID to practice a right that says "shall not be infringed" you need one to vote. Period. No further argument needed.

[mpercy]

I'd just like the application process for welfare to mirror the application process for CCW.

Around here, for CCW, you must show up in person at the courthouse, fill out an application that asks several invasive questions, present several forms of government-approved photo ID, get photographed for new picture ID, take the application to the Sheriff's office, get fingerprinted, then have the application and prints submitted to the FBI for a background check. Of course you have to pay nontrivial fees as well.

If you've have committed no crimes and are not deemed mentally unstable, if you're lucky your CCW will be approved and mailed to you in 60-90 days. You get to repeat the process every 5 years.
Since its a welfare application, we could waive the fees, but the fingerprinting, photo ID requirement and issuance, plus a wants&warrants background check seem sensible and not intrusive relative to hoops needed to exercise Constitutionally-guaranteed 2nd rights.

As a side effect, the resulting photo ID would be acceptable for voting!

[Rob Misek]

Your one and only democratic right is to vote once every 4 years to decide who will lead your nation or community.

You would allow anyone to influence democracy even those who will not be around to live with the results?

Does your mother still lay your clothes out in the morning? No? You obviously care more about what you wear than the future of your nation.

[Liberty Lover]

The left claims voter suppression, but where are all those suppressed voters claiming their rights were violated? They just don't exist. Just produce the few that don't have an ID and there are many organizations that will help them get one in only a few days.
You know the rules, if you don't get that ID before election day it is because you are lazy and ignorant, not because anyone is suppressing your vote.

[NOYB2]

Do Voter ID Laws Undermine the Democratic Process or Ensure Trustworthy Elections?

Sounds like a false dichotomy to me. "Undermining the democratic process" when "the democratic process" refers to the kind of socialist majoritarianism Democrats have in mind, actually contributes to "trustworthy elections" as far as I'm concerned.

So, the answer is "yes and yes".

[dan1650]

Eliza Sweren is really hard to listen to. She starts out with misinformation that voting by mail is a great thing that prevents disenfranchising voters. The facts and statistics completely dispute that. They also show it disenfranchises minorities to a higher degree because their ballots are rejected or not delivered because of mistakes at a higher degree.
Pennsylvania a state that requires voters submit a request for an absentee ballot had 15,175 undeliverable mail-in ballots and 425,606 “unknown” or unaccounted-for ballots, 34,171 mail-in ballots were rejected by election officials. The response, The “unknown” ballots were sent to voters and never returned to election officials, which doesn’t necessarily mean votes weren’t counted, said Ellen Lyons. “Anyone who knows how elections work knows that this is normal,” Lyons said.
Georgia, another state that requires voters to request an absentee mail in ballot had 27,287 undeliverable ballots and another 217,677 ballots met an “unknown” fate. Election officials rejected another 4,804 ballots.
A total of 14.7 million mail-in ballots were unaccounted for nationally, while 1.1 million mail-in ballots were undeliverable. Election officials rejected another 560,814.
The Democrats response to the data. Voter ID's and other state laws to secure elections disenfranchise voters of color.

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[profacgen2021]

Pharmacophore Modeling
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[lobereign]

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