While Culture Warriors Debate Language, Police Reformers Change Policy

Sifting through some positive criminal justice developments on the Reason Roundtable.

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While Culture Warriors Debate Language, Police Reformers Change Policy

The People Who Always Like to Argue Viciously About Stuff (PWALAVAS) are busy this week debating whether the slogan "defund the police" is or is not a net positive in the push for reforming America's criminal justice system. Meanwhile, on Planet Non-PWALAVAS, policy changes and experimentation are proceeding apace.

So contend the participants in the latest Reason Roundtable podcast: Nick Gillespie, Katherine Mangu-Ward, Peter Suderman, and Matt Welch. The gang also talks about the latest in institutional liberalism's civil war, Spike Lee's new joint, and how rooting out werewolves might just be the necessary palliative for fraying familial nerves.

Audio production by Ian Keyser and Regan Taylor.

Music: "Search and Rescue" by Dan Lebowitz

Relevant links from the show:

"The Libertarian Roots of Police Reform: Q&A with Radley Balko," by Nick Gillespie

"Treating Mental Illness With Care, Not Punishment, Goes Beyond Defunding Police," by J.D. Tuccille

"The Former Cop Who Killed George Floyd Will Get $50K Annual Pension Even if Convicted of Murder," by Eric Boehm

"New York City Cops Will Finally Stop Targeting Street Food Vendors," by Baylen Linnekin

"How Not To Build a Transpartisan Coalition for Police Reform," by Jacob Sullum

"A Cop Shot a 10-Year-Old and Got Qualified Immunity. Tom Brady and 1,400 Other Pro Athletes Want To Fix That," by Billy Binion

"Police Reform Should Match the Needs of Different Communities," by J.D. Tuccille

"With 1 Republican Cosponsor, Rep. Justin Amash Gains Tripartisan Support To End Qualified Immunity," by Billy Binion

"The 1793 Project Unmasked," by Robby Soave

What are we consuming this week?

Matt Welch

• Brooklyn Street Art Walk of Gowanus

Katherine Mangu-Ward

• One Night Ultimate Werewolf

Peter Suderman

• Da 5 Bloods

Nick Gillespie

• "The Ecstatic Pessimist: Stories of Hope (Mostly)," by Carla Gericke

---

Comments

[Wu Gui]

Nick Gillespie, Katherine Mangu-Ward, Peter Suderman, and Matt Welch.

4 Progs Pontificating!

[Nonstopdrivel]

Three bitches bitching!

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[RabbiHarveyWeinstein]

I want to see KMW split roasted!

[The guy who broke sarc and chemjeff]

Based on your posts in the other thread as "Tulpa Disciple" you want to use the N word while justifying police violence

[RabbiHarveyWeinstein]

I'm not Tulpa. I love the black people. They are so very entertaining!

[The guy who broke sarc and chemjeff]

"Tulpa Disciple
June.15.2020 at 4:33 pm
It is the kind of thing niggers like that do"

Yes, you are Tulpa Disciple/TULPA FOLLOWER and you said that.

Got ya.

[RabbiHarveyWeinstein]

Fine. You have forced my hand. I denounce the poster known as "Tulpa Disciple".

[The guy who broke sarc and chemjeff]

Cool you denounce yourself!

“Tulpa Disciple
June.15.2020 at 4:33 pm
It is the kind of thing niggers like that do”

Yes, you are Tulpa Disciple/TULPA FOLLOWER and you said that.

Got ya.

[TULPA FOLLOWER]

Stop this pogrom!

[The guy who broke sarc and chemjeff]

AHAHAHAHA OOPS! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA YOU FUCKED UP AGAIN AAHAHAHAHAHAJAJ!

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug]

God damn Rabbi even I think that's disgusting.

[The guy who broke sarc]

IKR? Rabbi "The n***** deserved it" Weinstein.

Gross.

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[RabbiHarveyWeinstein]

When does Spike Lee not act like a bitch?

[The guy who broke sarc and chemjeff]

Just call him the N word like you did when you were just socking as "Tulpa Disciple" you gross fucking bigot.

[RabbiHarveyWeinstein]

You might have broken sarc and chemjeff but I am unbreakable! and Spike Lee is still a little bitch.
#BlackLivesMatter

[The guy who broke sarc and chemjeff]

“Tulpa Disciple
June.15.2020 at 4:33 pm
It is the kind of thing niggers like that do”

Yes, you are Tulpa Disciple/TULPA FOLLOWER and you said that.

Got ya.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

The People Who Always Like to Argue Viciously About Stuff (PWALAVAS) are busy this week debating whether the slogan "defund the police" is or is not a net positive in the push for reforming America's criminal justice system.

When I see signs in my neighborhood that say "defund the police" and "abolish the SPD" I take them at their word. Am I culturally warrioring?

[Brandybuck]

Next time those Karen's want to tattle on someone mowing their lawn without masks, I would answer the police department phone in my best Fran Drescher voice and say "I'm sorry, but we're all out today holding bake sale."

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I want to see someone call 911 and have a social worker holding a clipboard and driving a prius show up at the door-- which is what some of the defund/abolish people are literally saying should happen.

[RabbiHarveyWeinstein]

In practice, police are no different than social workers. They always show up after a crime has occurred. The implication of a standing police force is that you might get caught red-handed and have a nightstick used on one or more of your orifices.

[The guy who broke sarc and chemjeff]

Cool you denounce yourself!

“Tulpa Disciple
June.15.2020 at 4:33 pm
It is the kind of thing niggers like that do”

Yes, you are Tulpa Disciple/TULPA FOLLOWER and you said that.

Got ya!

Seriously, N-bombs and lying when you get caught? God damn youre gross.

[RabbiHarveyWeinstein]

Stop this pogrom!

[The guy who broke sarc and chemjeff]

Cool you denounce yourself!

“Tulpa Disciple
June.15.2020 at 4:33 pm
It is the kind of thing niggers like that do”

Yes, you are Tulpa Disciple/TULPA FOLLOWER and you said that.

Got ya!

Seriously, N-bombs and lying when you get caught? God damn youre gross.

[The guy who broke sarc and chemjeff]

You have the wrong poster I am but a humble servant!

[The guy who broke sarc and chemjeff]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH OMFG YOU FUCKED UP TWICE IN THE SAME THREAD AHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHAH

[Brandybuck]

Defunding the police is essentially synonymous with disbanding the police. As a quasi-anarchist, I can get behind this. Police not funded by the tax system won't be able to do much. Except maybe throw a bake sale (are we really back in the hippy 70s?)

But I don't think that's what the shouters of DEFUND mean. Hell, they're busy lecturing us whiteys that it is explicitly NOT what they mean! Defund the police does NOT mean defund the police! It means to somehow reform them while keeping and even amplifying their enforcement powers in areas the progressives want enforced. Like rent control. Or the collection of taxes. Or busting down the door and shooting the dog of anyone daring to work without a license.

I've been over this with the progressives. They just don't listen. You CAN'T get rid of the police and still have a progressive mommie/nanny state.

The same people who kicked the police out of that section of Seattle are simultaneously calling for the mandatory imposition of rent control within their micronation. HOW? HOW THE FUCK ARE THEY GOING TO ENFORCE THAT WITHOUT POLICE!

Now if they were genuine anarchist exploring the emergent order of a voluntaryist legal system, that would be cool. But that's NOT what the progressives and socialists are all about. They loathe anything that's voluntary. So they need the police to get the lesser beings in line. Because progessivism and it's cousin socialism can't exist without the force that comes from a barrel of a gun.

[RabbiHarveyWeinstein]

You can subscribe to the Shomrim for a neighborhood watch. They also provide sex-segregated ambulance service for people in the neighborhood. A good example of private individuals providing services to the greater community. Catch is that you have to be Jewish.

[The guy who broke sarc and chemjeff]

Cool you denounce yourself!

“Tulpa Disciple
June.15.2020 at 4:33 pm
It is the kind of thing niggers like that do”

Yes, you are Tulpa Disciple/TULPA FOLLOWER and you said that.

Got ya

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Catch is that you have to be Jewish.

BOYCOTT ISRAEL!

[RabbiHarveyWeinstein]

Anti-Semite!

[The guy who broke sarc and chemjeff]

Cool you denounce yourself!

“Tulpa Disciple
June.15.2020 at 4:33 pm
It is the kind of thing niggers like that do”

Yes, you are Tulpa Disciple/TULPA FOLLOWER and you said that.

Got ya!

Seriously, N-bombs and lying when you get caught? God damn youre gross.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

They also provide sex-segregated ambulance service for people in the neighborhood.

By the by, I remember some small-scale riots in Brooklyn back in the 90s when one of those Jewish Ambulance services responded to a violent situation with multiple victims and kind of... drove off with all the Jewish people, leaving everyone else bleeding on the ground.

[RabbiHarveyWeinstein]

Is there some law against an ambulance service for blacks?

[The guy who broke sarc and chemjeff]

AHAHAHAHA YOU FUCKED UP DUMBASS AHAHAHAHAAHAJ

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Defunding the police is essentially synonymous with disbanding the police. As a quasi-anarchist, I can get behind this

The problem for me is I can get behind this... for me. But I also know that my dismissive opinion on the matter is totally selfish and doesn't take any other people or conditions into consideration. When I put my 'realist' hat on, it's just not feasible.

If we want to play the "well, that's not what they mean" game, then they need to start saying what they mean.

Is there a place where we could dramatically change the role of police, and have a system that could segregate and analyze calls to 911 and possibly have an alternative agency show up for certain types of situations which are clearly deemed to not require violence from the outset? Mmmmaybe. I sure ain't gonna be the one to define that. Can we decriminalize a bunch of stuff that should have never been criminalized? Absolutely, yes (which forces many of the protesters to come to grips with their own politics which often demands criminalizing a whole new set of behaviors of which they don't approve).

Can we stop using SWAT teams for code enforcement stuff? 100%.

But we already have situations where "civilian" responses to potentially violent situations exist. Right now. CDMHPs have to make contact with the craziest of the crazy in the community to do mental health assessments. So in that case, we're LITERALLY sending a social worker with a prius and clipboard to knock on the door of someone who's bum-fuckin' nuts. However, if the CDMHPs suspect they might be dealing with a violent situation-- they request a sheriff deputy escort.

In addition to that, I haven't heard anyone talk about the investigatory side of the police. Detectives who, by general rule don't hard-charge into situations, make traffic stops and respond to active threats, but simply make phone calls, interview people, gather evidence etc. We getting rid of that? Or will we appoint a Title IX administrator to handle that?

[Nardz]

None of these people would last 5 minutes in a world without police and the threat of State retribution

[The guy who broke sarc and chemjeff]

Cool you denounce yourself!

“Tulpa Disciple
June.15.2020 at 4:33 pm
It is the kind of thing niggers like that do”

Yes, you are Tulpa Disciple/TULPA FOLLOWER and you said that.

Got ya

[RabbiHarveyWeinstein]

This man is mentally ill. Someone call the police to help him!

[The guy who broke sarc and chemjeff]

Cool you denounce yourself!

“Tulpa Disciple
June.15.2020 at 4:33 pm
It is the kind of thing niggers like that do”

Yes, you are Tulpa Disciple/TULPA FOLLOWER and you said that.

Got ya!

Seriously, N-bombs and lying when you get caught? God damn youre gross!!!

AHAHA YOU FUCKED UP AND I WON AGAIN AHAJAJAJAJAJ

[Qsl]

"Is there a place where we could dramatically change the role of police, and have a system that could segregate and analyze calls to 911 and possibly have an alternative agency show up for certain types of situations which are clearly deemed to not require violence from the outset?"

In my neck of the woods, there has been an ongoing "team policing" approach to have social workers and mental health clinics available and working with the police. Cops still make first contact though and offer referrals. It is too soon to say whether they have been successful.

Keep in mind there were still police brutality demonstrations here by the local brain trust, so take it for what it's worth.

[RabbiHarveyWeinstein]

test

[The guy who broke sarc and chemjeff]

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahahah

Cool you denounce yourself!

“Tulpa Disciple
June.15.2020 at 4:33 pm
It is the kind of thing niggers like that do”

Yes, you are Tulpa Disciple/TULPA FOLLOWER and you said that.

Got ya!

Seriously, N-bombs and lying when you get caught? God damn youre gross.

[The guy who broke sarc and chemjeff]

HES TESTING BECAUSE HES RUNNING SOCKPUPPETS AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AND HE FAILED AHAHAHAHHA

OMFG HE'S

STILL

TRYING

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAAHHH

I WIN BITCH!!!!

[The guy who broke sarc and chemjeff]

FAIL!

RABBI "THE N***** DESERVED IT" WEINSTEIN AHAHAHAHAHH

I WIN AHAHAHAHAHAHJAJA

[voluntaryist]

What’s wrong with this approach to resolve the social unrest?
“There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil for every one hacking at the root.” HDT
And, it doesn’t work. Institutionalized violence can’t be fixed. It’s fatally flawed. It’s the root of the problem.
The solution is a voluntary system of governance based on reason, rights, choice. That would be new, require a lot of cooperation and a commitment to respect the individual over all else. Can a society change its primitive public policy and act civil, be a beacon for humanity?

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[Poet Master Grunthos]

Peter, I just can't get on board with your recommendations. I watched da 5 bloods, and it was so predictable it was like watching a movie for 5 year olds. Oh, hey, we defuse landmines.... Uh-oh, we are in a land mine field... SMH. The movie Dope was way better as a cultural statement.

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